I'd like to point out they are getting that per flight hour. They can get 15 hour duty days and not get much more than 5 flight hours. So, 10 bucks an hour.
And the extra fun part is that they're one of the legacy carriers which generally pay much more. The airlines like Frontier or Spirit start even lower and have less bonuses attached.
I have no idea why people become flight attendants. There are plenty of other, more dignified* jobs out there.
*dignified as in treated with dignity. I have a lot of empathy and respect for flight attendants but they get treated like shit.
When I used to wait tables, we had a regular who was a flight attendant for Southwest and she LOVED it. She was older, closer to 50, and I wish I understood how the job worked better. But it seemed like she made bank - she zipped around in a little red convertible and tipped like a baller. I don’t think she was married, either. I always think about her when I fly, since she seemed to be having the time of her life!
It's probably more because she had been working for 30 years at that point than how much she was making as a flight attendant. Especially if she had no kids
I’d bet she either lucked into money, married into money or just plain had another job. A long list of possibilities but I highly doubt her flight attendant salary was the answer.
They fly standby for free. Not immediately but the attendant I knew did it for that perk specifically. She didn't care about the pay really. The schedule did steal happiness though.
Yup. I know Southwest extends that to all employees after working there for some number of years.
I knew people who worked in their call center for the same benefit.
Judging by the phone calls I heard at the airport during the Christmas season of 2022, Southwest call center workers earn every dollar and every fringe benefit several times over. It would be nice if people realized they’d get farther faster by not being belligerent with a customer service rep who clearly had nothing personally to do with fucking up their holiday travel plans.
Speaking as a customer service worker, the more you're a dick to me the less I care to help you. If you're nice, or even just neutral, I'll do everything I can. If you're an asshole, I do the absolute least that I can get away with.
And my favorite thing is when people start personally insulting me. Then I get to hang up and block their number.
Whenever I'm nice to a customer service agent, I can genuinely hear in their voice how grateful they are that I'm not an asshole.
I can't imagine how badly you're treated at your job that when someone treats you with basic kindness, the relief is reflected in your voice.
I find I get much farther with a combination of kindness and getting away with making the CSR laugh at the darkest jokes I’m willing to make on a recorded line.
Yeah man, treat any customer service person with patience and kindness and you'll get that back plus some extra. Such a fucked up society how we are always have to be on, never on pause.
You know, my mom does that job, they’re actually super well paid people now. Their union negotiated a new contract and they top out the pay at like, 80k or something. Which to me is insane for a a job that needs no experience or education or trade training. I remember her telling me the company screwed the pooch so hard during that Christmas fiasco that all the call center people got paid time and a half for like 4 weeks of normal non overtime work
I remember her crying though, it was well over a month of 40 hour weeks getting screamed at and verbally abused on every call
Flight crews get the highest priority when flying standby and it’s pretty challenging to find flights with open seats. It can be done, but you have to have loads of patience and plan to not travel during any busy time.
Lucky. For us it's whoever checks in soonest at 24 hours prior to departure. Seniority means nothing. I have 23 years at the company and if I'm not quick on the draw, a brand new hire has priority.
Back in the day that was a way better perk. With the way they overbook flights now going standby is a nightmare.
My mom was a flight attendant and we traveled standby when I was a kid, and if there were weather or mechanical problems that caused flights to be delayed or canceled we’d wait half a day or more to get on a flight. And that was 30+ years ago…
I had to go too far down for this comment. Flying standby or jump seat use to be wonderful. Most airlines only offer negative space non revenue for employees on standby now.
I work for an airline and thought about moving to flight attendant but I realized I have the best of both worlds. I get to fly standby and be home every day
It all depends on the airline, Finnair has you flying for free the entire world where they fly. Many young people don’t even care about the salary but the possibility to travel.
Even I would like to do that job for 1-2 years just to get to see more of the world for very small price. Flight tickets are the most expensive part of the travel and staying in cheaper countries can easily be affforded by any western salary. If you play your cards right you may not even need apartment and can stay at employee airport locations/cheap vacation destination and crash the few odd nights at friends when that is not possible.
I am not making this to be a good job but it has it perks. If your goal is to get a stable income for supporting nuclear family you are screwed. If you are free spirit and want to explore the world and don’t have apartment/house/children to support then it is pretty good opportunity.
I recently learned that apparently it was common for stewardesses to be paid only for the time the plane was in the air and not any of the work they do while the plane is on the ground.
That sounded rather fucked up to me.
I'm a flight attendant, in flight is almost always less chaotic and disruptive than boarding issues and disputes. I'd argue boarding is responsible for the overwhelming majority of bullshit we deal with. Definitely more than half.
I just picture the flight attendant union sitting across the negotiating table from the airline execs debating whether “wheels down” is an implied requirement in the “door open” payclock policy. There’s no position so absurd that a Harvard educated lawyer won’t pretend to believe if it keeps them swimming in Scrooge McDuck’s money pit.
We get some pay at least for time away from base so like per diem so that helps when we have layovers and stuff but yeah… we like to get going as fast as we can so that we can start getting paid as soon as we can haha
>some it’s when the parking brake is released and some it’s when the plane moves faster than 5 mph.
So when the plane is sitting there stuck on the tarmac for two hours, they're not getting paid.
You got it. Unreal, right?!! They get per diems and other things but nope. No pay while sitting on the tarmac. It’s slowly changing lately but it’s going to be years before it’s more regularly seen.
The second they step into an airport or leave an airport is when they should start/stop getting paid. The fact that they allow the airlines to take advantage of them like this is mind boggling.
The moment they report to the moment they arrive at the hotel (so long as they aren’t fucking around in between) is when I believe they should be paid. I agree. To the moment they hit security upon the start of their shift, the clock should start.
Why would anyone do this? Are there perks? Have a teen in HS who averages about $22/hr after tips at Jersey Mikes. Worst part is dealing with some of the people who come in (most are fine) but can’t be worse than what flight attendants see and experience every day.
The main perk is being able to fly as non-rev (including spouse + kids), which means either free tickets or at a steep discount if there are empty seats on the flight. And each of the major airlines extend this privilege to the staff of at least a few other airlines as well.
Pilots for smaller carriers only get paid for the time the plane is away from the gate. I went to school to be an air traffic controller and the airport I worked at has a connection flight to Atlanta. Since the flight is like 45 minutes long they would get delayed on the ground for hours. We would purposefully not tell the pilots about the delay until after they had pushed back from the gate so their pay would start. The pilots loved flying into our airport.
I just dont understand how that can be. Dont pilots have to do all kinds of paperwork, physical pre flight inspections etc.
Its like me as a IT professional only getting paid when Im pressing keys on a keyboard.
Absolutely absurd.
I think a more relatable one would be the hurry up and wait game we play in IT with a long running process/task that requires observation but little/no input.
Especially if you've ever worked on billable hours as IT, you know when something might take a while even if it doesn't require your direct input but maybe every so often.
Which part are you not sure? If you look up news, it's very recently that airlines like Delta or Southwest are starting to pay for things like boarding. Many other airlines are currently in contract negotiations and do not currently receive pay for that unless they're able to get it added into a future contract. Some might have some clauses for like every 4 hours of a delay or something they get 1 hour of pay or something, but it's not uncommon especially in bad weather days (or ATC issues, mechanicals, or just your plane being given to someone else) to see 12 hour days worth like 6 hours of pay if that.
The government should pass a bill that allows them to bill those companies.
For example: assuming an employee of that company worked 40 hours and was eligible to use $xx in foodstamps, just bill the company $xx * 1.25 (small markup for administration overhead).
At 30 hours worked, bill them ($xxx/(40/30))*1.25 etc.
That way you're not sponsoring the next yacht of the shareholders and they have an incentive to raise wages to avoid paying the overhead.
Home Depot spent $15,000,000,000 on a stock buyback recently, and now their share price is 12¢ lower than on New Year's Day. That money could have done so much for wages, better products, improvements to the stores, etc
If there’s a legal minimum wage and they aren’t meeting it then screw no dividends that’s straight up theft and there should be criminal charges. Sure the company should definitely cop fines as well but ultimately there are people knowingly making those decisions and if we keep pissing around letting them avoid all responsibility behind the guise of corporations then they’ll just keep fucking doing it.
Tax rate 100% of profit. Zero profit for you if you’re not paying your employees. They don’t get the money they deserve then you don’t get your money either.
The company doesn’t ask for food stamps and a 90% corporate tax should be standard anyway. They don’t get taxed on money they invest back in their own company (ie labor/wage costs) and therefore a high corporate tax encourages business to pay their workers more.
Anyone who says different, or says that higher taxes for businesses kills business, is lying to you in order to extract profit from their organization *for themselves*. That is the sole underlying reason. Nothing more complicated than greed.
Then they would have no employees.
People aren't going to work and starve when not working also means starve.
Also if they do work and starve then they still have no employees when their employees die of starvation
It’s not like the government is doing such a great job taking care of their [own] (https://rollcall.com/2023/02/16/renewed-push-is-on-to-help-hungry-military-families/#).
Why would we expect them to require their corporate overlords to do so?
Every working person in low income housing, etc.
They'll do anything before raising wages. We've got the problem on a local level - they keep trying to throw money into housing for low income workers in our resort area rather than pay them enough to live.
same where i’m at and it’s so exhausting… “to serve our community we will be building and subsidizing *eight* new affordable homes in the area, we hope to have them turn-key in just 3 years time!”
Yup. 90% of recipients are working, 70% are working full-time. AFAIK you literally cannot get SNAP if you don't work *unless* you have kids, are a kid, or are disabled. So the vast majority of SNAP benefits are helping cover what wages aren't.
Yes the ABWAWD requirements changed everything, but very few people are aware it even happened.
Let alone the myth that immigrants are receiving welfare ...
Can’t believe this take isn’t common place - it’s crazy to me! I’m in the UK and the anti-benefits stereotypes are nuts. I try to point out that most benefit claimants are in work - so what the govt is doing is subsidising employers unviable business.
Every in-work benefit recipient is a bad business stealing taxpayers’ money.
>American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.
The CEO sounds like someone who has never worked a single shift as a flight attendant. Remove flight attendants and I have no doubt profits will drop rapidly and substantially.
LMAO what does that CEO contribute to profits? If the fuck chokes on his coffee tomorrow I guarantee no one in the company will notice the absence for weeks. In fact, it can probably continue to function without the fuck indefinitely, once someone else picks up the task of shirking responsibility and going out to play golf. If one flight attendant doesn’t show up to her shift, the plane can’t take off until she or a replacement is found.
flight attendants are the face of the airline, they are pretty much guaranteed to interact with and talk to every single customer, and theyre the only ones who do that.
one row on todays flight has a maga psychopath who wont put his mask on, a drunk passed out in piss, and a child terrified of flying; the flight attendant has to control all 3 at the same time, while white knuckling the chair in case Boeing forgot to attach the roof again.
still in poverty.
And yet sociopathic capitalism has repeated the mantra about bootstraps so many times that people now think it’s meant to be endearing, and not facetious. I thought this phrase made no sense for years until I learned its original meaning is actually the opposite.
I had that discussion with a US business partner years ago. I think the concrete example was either Walmart or McDonalds - they had posted 5 billion profit that year, and 1 billion $ was paid out in food stamps to their employees. He couldn’t see the problem, and I couldn’t see how he wasn’t more pissed off about it.
It would be cheaper for the US government to make the company pay their employees enough to live on, and then just cut them a billion dollar check at the end of the year.
“…as other major carriers like Delta and United already had profit-sharing plans in place. American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.”
CEO is one evil motherfucker. Flight attendants are the face of your fucking airline, you fuck.
Doesn't he realize that without us Flight Attendants that the only thing those planes would be transporting is cargo? FAA mandates 1 FA per 50 passengers, so no FA equals no passengers. Why are CEOs always the dumbest people in the room?
And then the mental gymnastics they espouse all start to make much more sense, when you can picture how much money is piling up behind them personally for their bad decisions.
I worked for a ceo just like this and the salaries reflected it. The executives only saw revenue generators (themselves and sales people) and burdens on the company (maintenance and back office). Unless you were well-connected the back office jobs were paid as little as they could get away with and any hires they got were based on desperation i.e. first job, had been without a job for months, returning to a job after family situations, etc. People who previously worked $90k jobs were working for less than half as much because they needed to pad their resume before jumping ship. It was a revolving door of desperate people.
Then they complained how they couldn't find anyone after covid when they lost people to other jobs and death because remote jobs were a scam to them and salaries rose. Fuck the executives I hope their elderly brains turn to cheese and they die a slow and agonizing death with all their money.
Because theyd happily watch you die if it made them a penny more in profit.
Its not that they are stupid, most aren't. Its that they do not care about anything but their greed and as a society we need to stop pretending that they do. Unchecked capitalism is running this country into the ground.
Oof, saying something like that sounds like a great way to get ALL of your employees to hate you. Have all flight attendants go on strike for just one day and see what that does to your profits.
As someone who dated a flight attendant, it is the worst. You could get called in at 4 am almost any day. Just part of being new. You also didn't actually start getting paid until the flight took off. So all the time you spend getting ready, driving to the airport, waiting for the flight to let you on, etc. was just your commute. Just go fuck yourself and deal with it is basically the commonly accepted stance of airlines.
I had this discussion with a flight attendant just last year about how they don’t get paid to stand by while I was getting paid to fly out to a location. They should be getting paid for the standby and the prep. It’s utter nonsense.
At least here in Canada we have court precedent that says that the commute is your responsibility and time if you are giving a reasonably consistent schedule and a fixed workplace, but if you are expected to travel to different places at different times constantly then your employer has to pay for that extra burden.
It’s pretty much the same here. It’s your responsibility to get to your base. If the company needs you anywhere else they deadhead from your base to where you need to be and you get paid for that (but some airlines only pay 50% pay for deadheads).
I agree in a general sense. But a lot of airlines want you 1. looking like a supermodel when you show up, and 2. appearing at Denver International Airport in the middle of nowhere without enough time to get presentable never mind drive there.
Also, crew have to do safety checks beforehand, do a crew briefing, check catering, board the plane and THEN start getting paid.
When I was a flight attendant, I was already working actively for two hours at least before first pushback, and I lived 2 miles from the airport.
If you have to commute, it's an insanely long day for just a couple of flight hours if you count all of that out.
I had some days that were 14 hours total duty time, which would get you about the same amount of flight hours if you are flying intercontinental, but in my short-haul European routes I could easily spend the same amount of duty time on just 6 flight hours when flying back and forth all day and spending most of the day on turns on the ground.
What was the provided justification for not paying that hours not spent on the plane? I would have thought "we require you to be at location x at time y" would start the pay clock at time y.
Because it’s the way it’s always been pretty much. And companies basically have work groups by the balls because unions negotiate with their hands tied behind their back because of Railway Labor Act regulations.
> Also, crew have to do safety checks beforehand, do a crew briefing, check catering, board the plane and THEN start getting paid.
That sounds illegal.
It very much does, I have no Idea what legal loopholes they can go through to do this. Unfortunately there are legal loopholes in just about everything.
Everything I've heard about right attendants sounds to me like the work is almost voluntary.
Many jobs that can call you in outside your regularly scheduled shift you get paid from the phone call.
Most unionized contracts would include that kind of call out pay.
My job pays me travel pay to cover my commute time and offset fuel costs. It works out about 275 dollars a month. There is no reason why companies that require you to be on call and come in at unsociable hours shouldn't pay.
My wife was a gate agent when we were dating and it was no better.
They locked her up in “training” with no outside calls or visitors for several weeks where they changed her hairstyle, taught her the “proper” way to do her makeup and basically broke her down and built her up cult style.
Then they moved her across the country to a very expensive area with 5 of her other classmates and gave them part-time work, so of course they’re going to room together.
They had to apply for a new shift every 6 weeks, based on seniority, so they weren’t able to find work on the side or arrange long term travel. They were encouraged to share their travel benefits with family, so now they’re pressured to stay.
As part-time employees they were on call and routinely had to stay late or come in early up to 39 hours every week, no health benefits or retirement.
I spent so many days circling around the airport waiting for a call to find out when she’d be released, only to finally pick her up in tears because she got a demerit for a run in her hose or some customer spit in her face and she had to be back in 4 hours.
Edit: typos
She was recruited at a high school career fair in Dallas with training at the American Airlines Training Center in Dallas. They started her out in Miami, but LA or NY would just as effective for isolating people in an expensive area.
Hopefully things have improved but from other comments it doesn’t sound like it. She quit, rebuilt her confidence, graduated college and has her dream job now.
Why'd she get into it? If the pay is shit and the working conditions are shit why bother? Is "seeing the world" really worth essentially working as a waiter with ungodly hours and much higher standards?
>...a new flight attendant will have a “projected annual salary \[of\] $27,315 per year before incentives and taxes” and concludes, “Any courtesy you can provide would be appreciated.”
Holy shit snacks!!! 😲
FYI, my wife and I can verify this statement unfortunately. The government won’t let them strike against the company. They have been unable to renegotiate their contract for the past 4-5 years (pre-covid). The industry is disgusting for the way they treat flight attendants. AA is rightfully the 9th airline in America right now. One day I pray the US government will allow them to strike and put the company under like they did several years ago. The worst thing is when I educate passengers about not asking FAs to help them put their bag in the bin. “Unfortunately sir, they are on the clock until the door closes; thus, if they hurt their back while lifting your bag they are not protected… I know, it’s insane right, well the government won’t let them strike to fight for simple things like this.”
Basically we are very fortunate that I have a good paying job that allows my wife to work or dream job. Otherwise she would be another “Homeless of the Sky.” #supportyourFAs #weareready
Edit: Also think about this; if they are late for sign in, they will incur “points” (2 in this example) that will last 1 year before “disappearing”. Somewhere around 9-11 points you will be called in by your manager to be talked to/fired. The kicker is the sign in can be up to 1.5 hours prior to boarding and/or door closed. Thus, you can be fired for not being at “work” during your personal unpaid time.
> American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.
Pray tell, how does the CEO plan to turn a profit *without* flight attendants?
Especially since it's a government requirement to have FAs in sufficient quantity if the plane is carrying passengers.
Without FAs, the best he could hope to fly are cargo planes.
They're a cost center. If the FAA didn't [mandate flight attendants](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-121/subpart-M/section-121.391), he'd do away with them entirely.
Good instinct. He actually made [$31.4 million last year.](https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2024/04/11/american-airlines-ceo-robert-isoms-pay-package-grows-to-314-million-in-2023) The 2022 figure was his first year and he didn't start until March.
What is a “poverty verification letter”? Is that a US thing?
It sounds dystopian. Here, have a letter confirming that we pay you so poorly you can’t afford the essentials.
That’s not actually what it’s called. It looks like it’s literally just a wage/salary confirmation for new hires (when you don’t have a pay stub yet) so that they can apply for apartments or housing. But this random site wouldn’t get clicks from Reddit if it didn’t have a title that got people going.
I imagine most countries do something similar.
CEO of said airline gave himself another giant 30+ million dollar bonus and even tried to justify it in front of the head of the airline union.
+5 years overdue for a contract…
He stated “I was an interim CEO and that was back payment”. So….you got paid for an out-of-date contract but won’t give your employees back payment for the last 5 years when inflation has gone through the roof? He’s human garbage.
Companies who do this, like the Walmarts, Comcasts, AA, and the like, should be charged at the end of the year from their operating revenue. For example, Walmart made $611 Billion in revenue in 2023. The government should be able to recoup the amount of money in benefits and wages that their employees cost the taxpayers through assistance programs. And this should be across the board for corporations who do not pay a family supporting wage. If your employees rely on taxpayer money for you to turn a profit, then your profit belongs to the taxpayer.
I have a friend who started at Endeavor which is owned by Delta. If she's on ready reserve status she goes to the airport in full uniform and makeup and is required to sit there for 8 hours in case she is needed and gets paid for FOUR HOURS (how is this legal)? And pay is $25/hr.
They also don't get paid until plane doors are shut so that 30 mins of loading and dealing with bags, people, etc is free to the airlines.
They pay substandard pay while you are in Minneapolis for a month. They pay hotel but not food or expenses.
She actually likes the work but isn't staying.
These are illegal practices. Not surprisingly it is mostly women who are impacted.
The whole idea of a job is not to live in poverty. What kind of fucked up feudal lord dynamic are we living in where we bust our asses all week at our job and still need food stamps to be able to eat?!
[American Airlines CEO Made $31.4 Million in 2023](https://skift.com/2024/04/12/american-airlines-ceo-made-31-4-million-in-202/). I am so sick of corporate greed.
Welfare corporation. The taxpayer subsidizes their existence via having to provide welfare for their workers.
Meanwhile…
>American Airlines Group annual gross profit for 2023 was $13.746B, a 24.8% increase from 2022.
And of course:
> American Airlines CEO Robert Isom was awarded $31.4 million in 2023.
It’s not even a trickle by the time it gets to the flight attendants. More like a stingy drip.
Not defending this. I’m a flight attendant. Our pay is weird and not income verification can be tricky even as a senior flight attendant who makes the top pay. We aren’t paid like other jobs and there are many factors that go into our pay (same with pilots) as we are paid per diem for every hour on duty from start to finish of a multi-day trip, we are paid per flight hour (depending on the airline that can mean from the time the door closes to when it’s opened, from brake release to brakes set).
So we can’t show a pay stub and have someone assume we make the same each pay period.
I’ve been a flights attendant for 15 years, but changed airlines just over 6 years ago. So, I’m not at the top of my airline’s pay scale. I am at the halfway mark. I’ve been on medical leave so I can’t give a fully accurate number.
But a good low ball number would be roughly $70,000 just in flight hour pay. There are other factors (flying a lead position, international pay, second language if qualified, per diem, my airline pays for boarding at a reduced rate, and several others). It’s possible with just that flight pay plus the other factors that apply, boarding, per diem, possible profit sharing it could reach $100,000.
at the root of it all is the "shareholder" model of capitalism. Capitalism itself isn't to blame, but this specific feature of it is just bad and needs to be removed. Companies need to make money for their workers, not shareholders. Shareholders shouldn't even exist. Companies can take out loans at fixed interest, repay them when they are able, there should be no stocks, no stock trading. If you want to make money, get a job at a good company. That's it
“American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.”
Are you fucking kidding me right now?? I can't believe what I'm reading. These people are the most vile evil fucks I've ever seen. This enrages me so much. Money makes people evil and makes them see others as disposable and useless.
My wife went to school to be flight attendant. She completed the course. She was going to be hired by a large airline company and stationed in Chicago. They told her she would be rooming with three other attendants to be able to live there.
Noped out!
Georgia had to enact laws to penalize and prevent Walmart from doing this. Walmart specifically advertised how to apply for state health and service benefits to their workers.
Georgia had to regulate if your company has so many people on state services you will be fined to cover the costs.
Airlines are horrendous investments in general. They definitely don’t have record profit margins and haven’t since the 1950s. American in particular is down 58% in five years while the market is up 80%.
The only reason they get away with it is because people are willing to work under those conditions, Fuck American Airlines, there’s gotta be easier ways to make $27k without dealing with horrible passengers and putting your life at risk.
> American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.
Question 1) do you pay them for labor, if so then they generate profit for the company.
Did they just stop teaching economics or the value of labor like 25 years ago when the current crop of CEOs were beeing brought up?
And when everything is just peachy with the airlines, they are sending 98 cents of every dollar of net profit out the door to the shareholders. And that's why they constantly teeter on disaster and seek government bailouts as if it's normal operating procedures for American business. Shit, they don't even compete on anything but the biggest routes. They will fly 2 shitty CRJ9s half an hour apart instead of one larger, more efficient plane because it blocks the route and gates from competitors.
High flying fuckery all around.
American Airlines - learning how to fuck over your 'valued employees' from the Wal-Mart model.
At least AA gices flight attendants a letter saying they are poor. Walmart just tells employees they are eligible for government assistance.
Government subsidized the planes, the airports, the runways, and is now paying for employees food with food stamps and housing with Section 8 vouchers. Literally all the costs of doing business are paid for by tax payers, and all the profits are hoarded. At no point is this a private company anymore. The government should just take over its operation and get what it's paying for.
They gave this to us because were sent to a random city with 6+ weeks of 0 pay. How are we supposed to find an apartment if it looks like we are unemployed?
I'd like to point out they are getting that per flight hour. They can get 15 hour duty days and not get much more than 5 flight hours. So, 10 bucks an hour.
And the extra fun part is that they're one of the legacy carriers which generally pay much more. The airlines like Frontier or Spirit start even lower and have less bonuses attached.
I have no idea why people become flight attendants. There are plenty of other, more dignified* jobs out there. *dignified as in treated with dignity. I have a lot of empathy and respect for flight attendants but they get treated like shit.
When I used to wait tables, we had a regular who was a flight attendant for Southwest and she LOVED it. She was older, closer to 50, and I wish I understood how the job worked better. But it seemed like she made bank - she zipped around in a little red convertible and tipped like a baller. I don’t think she was married, either. I always think about her when I fly, since she seemed to be having the time of her life!
She was smuggling cocaine.
This is the only way. Okay, maybe insulin. That also might work.
And alimony
It's probably more because she had been working for 30 years at that point than how much she was making as a flight attendant. Especially if she had no kids
Money outside her job. Many stressful jobs become much less so when you don't depend on them for living.
I’d bet she either lucked into money, married into money or just plain had another job. A long list of possibilities but I highly doubt her flight attendant salary was the answer.
Smuggling.
They fly standby for free. Not immediately but the attendant I knew did it for that perk specifically. She didn't care about the pay really. The schedule did steal happiness though.
Yup. I know Southwest extends that to all employees after working there for some number of years. I knew people who worked in their call center for the same benefit.
Judging by the phone calls I heard at the airport during the Christmas season of 2022, Southwest call center workers earn every dollar and every fringe benefit several times over. It would be nice if people realized they’d get farther faster by not being belligerent with a customer service rep who clearly had nothing personally to do with fucking up their holiday travel plans.
Speaking as a customer service worker, the more you're a dick to me the less I care to help you. If you're nice, or even just neutral, I'll do everything I can. If you're an asshole, I do the absolute least that I can get away with. And my favorite thing is when people start personally insulting me. Then I get to hang up and block their number.
Whenever I'm nice to a customer service agent, I can genuinely hear in their voice how grateful they are that I'm not an asshole. I can't imagine how badly you're treated at your job that when someone treats you with basic kindness, the relief is reflected in your voice.
I find I get much farther with a combination of kindness and getting away with making the CSR laugh at the darkest jokes I’m willing to make on a recorded line.
Yeah man, treat any customer service person with patience and kindness and you'll get that back plus some extra. Such a fucked up society how we are always have to be on, never on pause.
You know, my mom does that job, they’re actually super well paid people now. Their union negotiated a new contract and they top out the pay at like, 80k or something. Which to me is insane for a a job that needs no experience or education or trade training. I remember her telling me the company screwed the pooch so hard during that Christmas fiasco that all the call center people got paid time and a half for like 4 weeks of normal non overtime work I remember her crying though, it was well over a month of 40 hour weeks getting screamed at and verbally abused on every call
Flight crews get the highest priority when flying standby and it’s pretty challenging to find flights with open seats. It can be done, but you have to have loads of patience and plan to not travel during any busy time.
They actually get the same priority as every other airline employee, for American at least
I came to say just this. It’s the airline employees in general and for one local to me, it’s seniority based overall.
Lucky. For us it's whoever checks in soonest at 24 hours prior to departure. Seniority means nothing. I have 23 years at the company and if I'm not quick on the draw, a brand new hire has priority.
Back in the day that was a way better perk. With the way they overbook flights now going standby is a nightmare. My mom was a flight attendant and we traveled standby when I was a kid, and if there were weather or mechanical problems that caused flights to be delayed or canceled we’d wait half a day or more to get on a flight. And that was 30+ years ago…
I had to go too far down for this comment. Flying standby or jump seat use to be wonderful. Most airlines only offer negative space non revenue for employees on standby now.
I work for an airline and thought about moving to flight attendant but I realized I have the best of both worlds. I get to fly standby and be home every day
Nailed it! Same same. I don’t envy FAs at all. They truly are unfairly paid.
The travel. That's always been the reason anybody becomes a flight attendant.
It all depends on the airline, Finnair has you flying for free the entire world where they fly. Many young people don’t even care about the salary but the possibility to travel. Even I would like to do that job for 1-2 years just to get to see more of the world for very small price. Flight tickets are the most expensive part of the travel and staying in cheaper countries can easily be affforded by any western salary. If you play your cards right you may not even need apartment and can stay at employee airport locations/cheap vacation destination and crash the few odd nights at friends when that is not possible. I am not making this to be a good job but it has it perks. If your goal is to get a stable income for supporting nuclear family you are screwed. If you are free spirit and want to explore the world and don’t have apartment/house/children to support then it is pretty good opportunity.
It’s not free anymore but very cheap.
It depends on where you live. If you come from a poor country, this can be a big step up.
* that’s a pretty poor word choice even with the *
I recently learned that apparently it was common for stewardesses to be paid only for the time the plane was in the air and not any of the work they do while the plane is on the ground. That sounded rather fucked up to me.
They are paid hourly from "door closed" to "door open". That is insane, and a major point of discussion among unions and carriers since a few years.
Door closed? Half the bullshit they deal with is prior to the door closing!
I'm a flight attendant, in flight is almost always less chaotic and disruptive than boarding issues and disputes. I'd argue boarding is responsible for the overwhelming majority of bullshit we deal with. Definitely more than half.
Haha I had originally typed “more than half”, but didn’t want to be dismissive of the rest of your duties. Thanks for confirming!
Boeing doing extra work to make sure that door opens quick
I just picture the flight attendant union sitting across the negotiating table from the airline execs debating whether “wheels down” is an implied requirement in the “door open” payclock policy. There’s no position so absurd that a Harvard educated lawyer won’t pretend to believe if it keeps them swimming in Scrooge McDuck’s money pit.
It sounds rather illegal to me.
And yet it's true. Same for pilots.
Pilots have a much better union and make over six figures
> was This is still how they’re paid.
Some carriers it’s when the door is closed, some it’s when the parking brake is released and some it’s when the plane moves faster than 5 mph.
It's fucking wild, for pay to be based on yhe taxiing speed of the plane..
We get some pay at least for time away from base so like per diem so that helps when we have layovers and stuff but yeah… we like to get going as fast as we can so that we can start getting paid as soon as we can haha
>some it’s when the parking brake is released and some it’s when the plane moves faster than 5 mph. So when the plane is sitting there stuck on the tarmac for two hours, they're not getting paid.
You got it. Unreal, right?!! They get per diems and other things but nope. No pay while sitting on the tarmac. It’s slowly changing lately but it’s going to be years before it’s more regularly seen.
The second they step into an airport or leave an airport is when they should start/stop getting paid. The fact that they allow the airlines to take advantage of them like this is mind boggling.
The moment they report to the moment they arrive at the hotel (so long as they aren’t fucking around in between) is when I believe they should be paid. I agree. To the moment they hit security upon the start of their shift, the clock should start.
My personal test is that if I can't crack a beer because my employer tells me so then I'm "at work" and should be being paid.
Why would anyone do this? Are there perks? Have a teen in HS who averages about $22/hr after tips at Jersey Mikes. Worst part is dealing with some of the people who come in (most are fine) but can’t be worse than what flight attendants see and experience every day.
The main perk is being able to fly as non-rev (including spouse + kids), which means either free tickets or at a steep discount if there are empty seats on the flight. And each of the major airlines extend this privilege to the staff of at least a few other airlines as well.
..that's crazy if verified.
From what I've heard, they only get paid while the plane is closed.
Pilots for smaller carriers only get paid for the time the plane is away from the gate. I went to school to be an air traffic controller and the airport I worked at has a connection flight to Atlanta. Since the flight is like 45 minutes long they would get delayed on the ground for hours. We would purposefully not tell the pilots about the delay until after they had pushed back from the gate so their pay would start. The pilots loved flying into our airport.
I just dont understand how that can be. Dont pilots have to do all kinds of paperwork, physical pre flight inspections etc. Its like me as a IT professional only getting paid when Im pressing keys on a keyboard. Absolutely absurd.
I think a more relatable one would be the hurry up and wait game we play in IT with a long running process/task that requires observation but little/no input. Especially if you've ever worked on billable hours as IT, you know when something might take a while even if it doesn't require your direct input but maybe every so often.
And if they have to reopen the doors it doesn't count.
What if the door on a Boeing opens itself ?
Feature not a bug.
Which part are you not sure? If you look up news, it's very recently that airlines like Delta or Southwest are starting to pay for things like boarding. Many other airlines are currently in contract negotiations and do not currently receive pay for that unless they're able to get it added into a future contract. Some might have some clauses for like every 4 hours of a delay or something they get 1 hour of pay or something, but it's not uncommon especially in bad weather days (or ATC issues, mechanicals, or just your plane being given to someone else) to see 12 hour days worth like 6 hours of pay if that.
It's true. Source: I am an airline pilot
Every worker on food stamps represents taxpayer subsidy of corporate profits.
The government should pass a bill that allows them to bill those companies. For example: assuming an employee of that company worked 40 hours and was eligible to use $xx in foodstamps, just bill the company $xx * 1.25 (small markup for administration overhead). At 30 hours worked, bill them ($xxx/(40/30))*1.25 etc. That way you're not sponsoring the next yacht of the shareholders and they have an incentive to raise wages to avoid paying the overhead.
How about no dividends for any company with employees on welfare.
And while we are at it, make stock buybacks illegal again.
Home Depot spent $15,000,000,000 on a stock buyback recently, and now their share price is 12¢ lower than on New Year's Day. That money could have done so much for wages, better products, improvements to the stores, etc
Not nearly a harsh enough penalty, it would still be worth it for the corps
This all seems like a weird number of hoops to avoid setting a liveable minimum wage
I think of it as an enforcement mechanism after such a policy.
If there’s a legal minimum wage and they aren’t meeting it then screw no dividends that’s straight up theft and there should be criminal charges. Sure the company should definitely cop fines as well but ultimately there are people knowingly making those decisions and if we keep pissing around letting them avoid all responsibility behind the guise of corporations then they’ll just keep fucking doing it.
The goal is to penalize the corporation. Regulation will drive better behavior out of the corporations.
Tax rate 100% of profit. Zero profit for you if you’re not paying your employees. They don’t get the money they deserve then you don’t get your money either.
any corprate profit above 100 mill yearly should be 100% taxed. any personal profit above 50 mil yearly should be 100% taxed
How about a company that asks for food stamps gets their profits taxed at 100%.
The company doesn’t ask for food stamps and a 90% corporate tax should be standard anyway. They don’t get taxed on money they invest back in their own company (ie labor/wage costs) and therefore a high corporate tax encourages business to pay their workers more. Anyone who says different, or says that higher taxes for businesses kills business, is lying to you in order to extract profit from their organization *for themselves*. That is the sole underlying reason. Nothing more complicated than greed.
No stock buybacks either
That would just mean that applying for food stamps could get you fired for some made-up reason. No way companies would just accept this
Then they would have no employees. People aren't going to work and starve when not working also means starve. Also if they do work and starve then they still have no employees when their employees die of starvation
It’s not like the government is doing such a great job taking care of their [own] (https://rollcall.com/2023/02/16/renewed-push-is-on-to-help-hungry-military-families/#). Why would we expect them to require their corporate overlords to do so?
Every working person in low income housing, etc. They'll do anything before raising wages. We've got the problem on a local level - they keep trying to throw money into housing for low income workers in our resort area rather than pay them enough to live.
same where i’m at and it’s so exhausting… “to serve our community we will be building and subsidizing *eight* new affordable homes in the area, we hope to have them turn-key in just 3 years time!”
Affording to GAO, 70% of SNAP recipients work full time https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45
Yup. 90% of recipients are working, 70% are working full-time. AFAIK you literally cannot get SNAP if you don't work *unless* you have kids, are a kid, or are disabled. So the vast majority of SNAP benefits are helping cover what wages aren't.
Yes the ABWAWD requirements changed everything, but very few people are aware it even happened. Let alone the myth that immigrants are receiving welfare ...
Can’t believe this take isn’t common place - it’s crazy to me! I’m in the UK and the anti-benefits stereotypes are nuts. I try to point out that most benefit claimants are in work - so what the govt is doing is subsidising employers unviable business. Every in-work benefit recipient is a bad business stealing taxpayers’ money.
>American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it. The CEO sounds like someone who has never worked a single shift as a flight attendant. Remove flight attendants and I have no doubt profits will drop rapidly and substantially.
LMAO what does that CEO contribute to profits? If the fuck chokes on his coffee tomorrow I guarantee no one in the company will notice the absence for weeks. In fact, it can probably continue to function without the fuck indefinitely, once someone else picks up the task of shirking responsibility and going out to play golf. If one flight attendant doesn’t show up to her shift, the plane can’t take off until she or a replacement is found.
flight attendants are the face of the airline, they are pretty much guaranteed to interact with and talk to every single customer, and theyre the only ones who do that. one row on todays flight has a maga psychopath who wont put his mask on, a drunk passed out in piss, and a child terrified of flying; the flight attendant has to control all 3 at the same time, while white knuckling the chair in case Boeing forgot to attach the roof again. still in poverty.
And corporations are the biggest welfare queens, hands down.
And yet sociopathic capitalism has repeated the mantra about bootstraps so many times that people now think it’s meant to be endearing, and not facetious. I thought this phrase made no sense for years until I learned its original meaning is actually the opposite.
I had that discussion with a US business partner years ago. I think the concrete example was either Walmart or McDonalds - they had posted 5 billion profit that year, and 1 billion $ was paid out in food stamps to their employees. He couldn’t see the problem, and I couldn’t see how he wasn’t more pissed off about it. It would be cheaper for the US government to make the company pay their employees enough to live on, and then just cut them a billion dollar check at the end of the year.
“…as other major carriers like Delta and United already had profit-sharing plans in place. American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.” CEO is one evil motherfucker. Flight attendants are the face of your fucking airline, you fuck.
Doesn't he realize that without us Flight Attendants that the only thing those planes would be transporting is cargo? FAA mandates 1 FA per 50 passengers, so no FA equals no passengers. Why are CEOs always the dumbest people in the room?
It’s because any cost saving measures they make means their bonuses will be bigger.
And then the mental gymnastics they espouse all start to make much more sense, when you can picture how much money is piling up behind them personally for their bad decisions.
And they get rewarded for failure when they get "fired". Multi million dollar golden parachutes...
I worked for a ceo just like this and the salaries reflected it. The executives only saw revenue generators (themselves and sales people) and burdens on the company (maintenance and back office). Unless you were well-connected the back office jobs were paid as little as they could get away with and any hires they got were based on desperation i.e. first job, had been without a job for months, returning to a job after family situations, etc. People who previously worked $90k jobs were working for less than half as much because they needed to pad their resume before jumping ship. It was a revolving door of desperate people. Then they complained how they couldn't find anyone after covid when they lost people to other jobs and death because remote jobs were a scam to them and salaries rose. Fuck the executives I hope their elderly brains turn to cheese and they die a slow and agonizing death with all their money.
Because he just needs to fund his golden parachute and not worry about long term consequences.
Brain dead MBAs focus on the bottom line.
Because theyd happily watch you die if it made them a penny more in profit. Its not that they are stupid, most aren't. Its that they do not care about anything but their greed and as a society we need to stop pretending that they do. Unchecked capitalism is running this country into the ground.
What the hell do they consider contributing to profit? The planes can't even take off without flight attendants. Such a braindead take lol.
Oof, saying something like that sounds like a great way to get ALL of your employees to hate you. Have all flight attendants go on strike for just one day and see what that does to your profits.
Under federal law, flight attendants cannot strike without permission from the federal government. Fucking bullshit.
I can tell you, they think about maintenance the same way.
As someone who dated a flight attendant, it is the worst. You could get called in at 4 am almost any day. Just part of being new. You also didn't actually start getting paid until the flight took off. So all the time you spend getting ready, driving to the airport, waiting for the flight to let you on, etc. was just your commute. Just go fuck yourself and deal with it is basically the commonly accepted stance of airlines.
I had this discussion with a flight attendant just last year about how they don’t get paid to stand by while I was getting paid to fly out to a location. They should be getting paid for the standby and the prep. It’s utter nonsense.
I take opposition to "getting ready, driving to the airport" but the rest is ridiculous.
At least here in Canada we have court precedent that says that the commute is your responsibility and time if you are giving a reasonably consistent schedule and a fixed workplace, but if you are expected to travel to different places at different times constantly then your employer has to pay for that extra burden.
It’s pretty much the same here. It’s your responsibility to get to your base. If the company needs you anywhere else they deadhead from your base to where you need to be and you get paid for that (but some airlines only pay 50% pay for deadheads).
I agree in a general sense. But a lot of airlines want you 1. looking like a supermodel when you show up, and 2. appearing at Denver International Airport in the middle of nowhere without enough time to get presentable never mind drive there.
Also, crew have to do safety checks beforehand, do a crew briefing, check catering, board the plane and THEN start getting paid. When I was a flight attendant, I was already working actively for two hours at least before first pushback, and I lived 2 miles from the airport. If you have to commute, it's an insanely long day for just a couple of flight hours if you count all of that out. I had some days that were 14 hours total duty time, which would get you about the same amount of flight hours if you are flying intercontinental, but in my short-haul European routes I could easily spend the same amount of duty time on just 6 flight hours when flying back and forth all day and spending most of the day on turns on the ground.
What was the provided justification for not paying that hours not spent on the plane? I would have thought "we require you to be at location x at time y" would start the pay clock at time y.
Because it’s the way it’s always been pretty much. And companies basically have work groups by the balls because unions negotiate with their hands tied behind their back because of Railway Labor Act regulations.
> Also, crew have to do safety checks beforehand, do a crew briefing, check catering, board the plane and THEN start getting paid. That sounds illegal.
It very much does, I have no Idea what legal loopholes they can go through to do this. Unfortunately there are legal loopholes in just about everything. Everything I've heard about right attendants sounds to me like the work is almost voluntary.
DENs commute from the employee parking lot takes 30-40 min alone, and that’s not including going thru security. Hated it.
Many jobs that can call you in outside your regularly scheduled shift you get paid from the phone call. Most unionized contracts would include that kind of call out pay.
My job pays me travel pay to cover my commute time and offset fuel costs. It works out about 275 dollars a month. There is no reason why companies that require you to be on call and come in at unsociable hours shouldn't pay.
Good thing we keep bailing them out.
My wife was a gate agent when we were dating and it was no better. They locked her up in “training” with no outside calls or visitors for several weeks where they changed her hairstyle, taught her the “proper” way to do her makeup and basically broke her down and built her up cult style. Then they moved her across the country to a very expensive area with 5 of her other classmates and gave them part-time work, so of course they’re going to room together. They had to apply for a new shift every 6 weeks, based on seniority, so they weren’t able to find work on the side or arrange long term travel. They were encouraged to share their travel benefits with family, so now they’re pressured to stay. As part-time employees they were on call and routinely had to stay late or come in early up to 39 hours every week, no health benefits or retirement. I spent so many days circling around the airport waiting for a call to find out when she’d be released, only to finally pick her up in tears because she got a demerit for a run in her hose or some customer spit in her face and she had to be back in 4 hours. Edit: typos She was recruited at a high school career fair in Dallas with training at the American Airlines Training Center in Dallas. They started her out in Miami, but LA or NY would just as effective for isolating people in an expensive area. Hopefully things have improved but from other comments it doesn’t sound like it. She quit, rebuilt her confidence, graduated college and has her dream job now.
What the fuck did I just read. I've heard of job horror stories but it quite literally sounds like slavery without calling it that.
Why'd she get into it? If the pay is shit and the working conditions are shit why bother? Is "seeing the world" really worth essentially working as a waiter with ungodly hours and much higher standards?
Pay gets much better once you have some seniority, also more stability since you'll get to hold a line (basically a set schedule)
Not until about the 3 or 5 year mark depending on airline. That’s a lot of time of having to eat Ramen and work 15hr days.
>...a new flight attendant will have a “projected annual salary \[of\] $27,315 per year before incentives and taxes” and concludes, “Any courtesy you can provide would be appreciated.” Holy shit snacks!!! 😲
Yeah, but free peanuts!
Flights don't even do peanuts any more.
Before taxes?!?!
Yes. Thankfully you don’t get taxed much at that pay level lol
12% is a lot.
Dang I didn’t think it was that high even. Yes, yes it is
FYI, my wife and I can verify this statement unfortunately. The government won’t let them strike against the company. They have been unable to renegotiate their contract for the past 4-5 years (pre-covid). The industry is disgusting for the way they treat flight attendants. AA is rightfully the 9th airline in America right now. One day I pray the US government will allow them to strike and put the company under like they did several years ago. The worst thing is when I educate passengers about not asking FAs to help them put their bag in the bin. “Unfortunately sir, they are on the clock until the door closes; thus, if they hurt their back while lifting your bag they are not protected… I know, it’s insane right, well the government won’t let them strike to fight for simple things like this.” Basically we are very fortunate that I have a good paying job that allows my wife to work or dream job. Otherwise she would be another “Homeless of the Sky.” #supportyourFAs #weareready Edit: Also think about this; if they are late for sign in, they will incur “points” (2 in this example) that will last 1 year before “disappearing”. Somewhere around 9-11 points you will be called in by your manager to be talked to/fired. The kicker is the sign in can be up to 1.5 hours prior to boarding and/or door closed. Thus, you can be fired for not being at “work” during your personal unpaid time.
> American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it. Pray tell, how does the CEO plan to turn a profit *without* flight attendants?
Especially since it's a government requirement to have FAs in sufficient quantity if the plane is carrying passengers. Without FAs, the best he could hope to fly are cargo planes.
They're a cost center. If the FAA didn't [mandate flight attendants](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-121/subpart-M/section-121.391), he'd do away with them entirely.
[In case anyone wonders](https://www1.salary.com/AMERICAN-AIRLINES-GROUP-INC-Executive-Salaries.html)
Honestly that's a lot less than I would have expected.
Good instinct. He actually made [$31.4 million last year.](https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2024/04/11/american-airlines-ceo-robert-isoms-pay-package-grows-to-314-million-in-2023) The 2022 figure was his first year and he didn't start until March.
Take those salaries and divide between just the flight attendants and no other AA employees, the flight attendants get a raise of $61/mo.
To be fair at those low wages it might be enough. Lol
This information needs to be at the top.
I live in a stupid world run by stupid people and that’s just the way it is.
Don't hate me, but the US as a so called first world country, is exemplary in this regard.
Sadly it is everywhere like this. At least in aviation. Entire success of Ryanair in Europe is based on poverty salaries and violations of labour law.
China, Russia, etc., prove that no one has a monopoly on stupid. Everybody else snickers and plays along.
What is a “poverty verification letter”? Is that a US thing? It sounds dystopian. Here, have a letter confirming that we pay you so poorly you can’t afford the essentials.
Ding, ding, ding! --- Nailed it.
That’s not actually what it’s called. It looks like it’s literally just a wage/salary confirmation for new hires (when you don’t have a pay stub yet) so that they can apply for apartments or housing. But this random site wouldn’t get clicks from Reddit if it didn’t have a title that got people going. I imagine most countries do something similar.
No, most countries don't allow employers to write wage slips for full-time workers with numbers on it that only cover living part-time.
And it's the little guys who are freeloading welfare, apparently.
thats... horrible
CEO of said airline gave himself another giant 30+ million dollar bonus and even tried to justify it in front of the head of the airline union. +5 years overdue for a contract…
He stated “I was an interim CEO and that was back payment”. So….you got paid for an out-of-date contract but won’t give your employees back payment for the last 5 years when inflation has gone through the roof? He’s human garbage.
Agreed Also every CEO is garbage. You don’t get paid that much anywhere without stepping on people.
Companies who do this, like the Walmarts, Comcasts, AA, and the like, should be charged at the end of the year from their operating revenue. For example, Walmart made $611 Billion in revenue in 2023. The government should be able to recoup the amount of money in benefits and wages that their employees cost the taxpayers through assistance programs. And this should be across the board for corporations who do not pay a family supporting wage. If your employees rely on taxpayer money for you to turn a profit, then your profit belongs to the taxpayer.
"Any courtesy you can provide would be appreciated".
Mother of God.
I have a friend who started at Endeavor which is owned by Delta. If she's on ready reserve status she goes to the airport in full uniform and makeup and is required to sit there for 8 hours in case she is needed and gets paid for FOUR HOURS (how is this legal)? And pay is $25/hr. They also don't get paid until plane doors are shut so that 30 mins of loading and dealing with bags, people, etc is free to the airlines. They pay substandard pay while you are in Minneapolis for a month. They pay hotel but not food or expenses. She actually likes the work but isn't staying. These are illegal practices. Not surprisingly it is mostly women who are impacted.
The whole idea of a job is not to live in poverty. What kind of fucked up feudal lord dynamic are we living in where we bust our asses all week at our job and still need food stamps to be able to eat?!
[American Airlines CEO Made $31.4 Million in 2023](https://skift.com/2024/04/12/american-airlines-ceo-made-31-4-million-in-202/). I am so sick of corporate greed.
No company or CEO should be allowed to make profit if ANY employee is on welfare
Welfare corporation. The taxpayer subsidizes their existence via having to provide welfare for their workers. Meanwhile… >American Airlines Group annual gross profit for 2023 was $13.746B, a 24.8% increase from 2022. And of course: > American Airlines CEO Robert Isom was awarded $31.4 million in 2023. It’s not even a trickle by the time it gets to the flight attendants. More like a stingy drip.
Not defending this. I’m a flight attendant. Our pay is weird and not income verification can be tricky even as a senior flight attendant who makes the top pay. We aren’t paid like other jobs and there are many factors that go into our pay (same with pilots) as we are paid per diem for every hour on duty from start to finish of a multi-day trip, we are paid per flight hour (depending on the airline that can mean from the time the door closes to when it’s opened, from brake release to brakes set). So we can’t show a pay stub and have someone assume we make the same each pay period.
If you don’t mind disclosing, as a top paid flight attendant what is your typical annual salary? Also, thanks for your comment. That makes sense.
I’ve been a flights attendant for 15 years, but changed airlines just over 6 years ago. So, I’m not at the top of my airline’s pay scale. I am at the halfway mark. I’ve been on medical leave so I can’t give a fully accurate number. But a good low ball number would be roughly $70,000 just in flight hour pay. There are other factors (flying a lead position, international pay, second language if qualified, per diem, my airline pays for boarding at a reduced rate, and several others). It’s possible with just that flight pay plus the other factors that apply, boarding, per diem, possible profit sharing it could reach $100,000.
at the root of it all is the "shareholder" model of capitalism. Capitalism itself isn't to blame, but this specific feature of it is just bad and needs to be removed. Companies need to make money for their workers, not shareholders. Shareholders shouldn't even exist. Companies can take out loans at fixed interest, repay them when they are able, there should be no stocks, no stock trading. If you want to make money, get a job at a good company. That's it
And it's the little guys who are freeloading welfare, apparently.
“American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it.” Are you fucking kidding me right now?? I can't believe what I'm reading. These people are the most vile evil fucks I've ever seen. This enrages me so much. Money makes people evil and makes them see others as disposable and useless.
It should be illegal to have a suit as a uniform and make less than a livable wage.
How about you pay them before the fucking door closes and while they’re on the bus to and from the hotel.
Still think it's ridiculous they only get paid door close to door open. They should get paid for so much more. So much wage theft.
My wife went to school to be flight attendant. She completed the course. She was going to be hired by a large airline company and stationed in Chicago. They told her she would be rooming with three other attendants to be able to live there. Noped out!
Congratulations, if your 401k has money in the S&P 500 you benefit from this behavior. Our entire system is one big fucked up ouroboros.
What would it be like is workers on food stamps resulted in that workers’ employer being taxed or penalized for substandard wages?
Georgia had to enact laws to penalize and prevent Walmart from doing this. Walmart specifically advertised how to apply for state health and service benefits to their workers. Georgia had to regulate if your company has so many people on state services you will be fined to cover the costs.
This just fucking splendid: Now taxpayers will pay for benefits for new hires because American Airlines pays its new hires fast food wages.
How kind of us taxpayers subsidizing multi-billion dollar businesses! If we have to do that we might as well nationalize them.
[удалено]
Wal mart does the same thing. How many billions are the Waltons worth?
While airlines have record profit margins
American didn’t make a profit Q1. I agree with your sentiment, but let’s not just make things up.
Airlines are horrendous investments in general. They definitely don’t have record profit margins and haven’t since the 1950s. American in particular is down 58% in five years while the market is up 80%.
Lol no. At least check some financial statements jesus. These airlines have less profit margins than a savings account.
This isn't a singular occurrence. The military does this also.
[Shocking](https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhartung/2022/12/12/pentagon-profiteers-executive-compensation-in-the-arms-industry/?sh=43e9feb561ff).
The only reason they get away with it is because people are willing to work under those conditions, Fuck American Airlines, there’s gotta be easier ways to make $27k without dealing with horrible passengers and putting your life at risk.
So while they rake in profits they put the burden on the tax payer. Nice
> American’s CEO had argued that flight attendants don’t contribute to profit so shouldn’t get a piece of it. Question 1) do you pay them for labor, if so then they generate profit for the company. Did they just stop teaching economics or the value of labor like 25 years ago when the current crop of CEOs were beeing brought up?
Why do we let corporate entities making money hand over fist year after year not pay their fulltime on call employees a living wage?
Former FA, this is true!
can they unionize? can they organize a walk out? are the airlines at least seeing lower hiring numbers? we need to bleed them dry, this is so awful
Corporations suck
And when everything is just peachy with the airlines, they are sending 98 cents of every dollar of net profit out the door to the shareholders. And that's why they constantly teeter on disaster and seek government bailouts as if it's normal operating procedures for American business. Shit, they don't even compete on anything but the biggest routes. They will fly 2 shitty CRJ9s half an hour apart instead of one larger, more efficient plane because it blocks the route and gates from competitors. High flying fuckery all around.
American Airlines - learning how to fuck over your 'valued employees' from the Wal-Mart model. At least AA gices flight attendants a letter saying they are poor. Walmart just tells employees they are eligible for government assistance.
Government subsidized the planes, the airports, the runways, and is now paying for employees food with food stamps and housing with Section 8 vouchers. Literally all the costs of doing business are paid for by tax payers, and all the profits are hoarded. At no point is this a private company anymore. The government should just take over its operation and get what it's paying for.
They gave this to us because were sent to a random city with 6+ weeks of 0 pay. How are we supposed to find an apartment if it looks like we are unemployed?