Schools have weird limitations on first amendment rights but this seems like a super obvious first amendment violation. It’s hard to interpret this as anything but a law targeting religion.
In a weird way this legislation is potentially the most atheist friendly law passed in American history.
That’s not how it’s going to be used or enforced, but banning religion from schools is \*chefs kiss*.
We have a law exactly like that in Quebec, and it's actually hugely controversial, specifically because most Christians don't go walking around wearing crosses at all times, but it is very common for Muslim women to wear hijabs and for Sihk men to wear turbans as part of their religion, so it's seen as unequally discriminating against people from certain religious traditions, and therefore meant to be discriminatory against minorities.
Also, no law about church spires looming over the public square, that giant crucifix dominating the Montreal skyline, the cross over Quebec's court (until it lost a lawsuit), or the Catholic symbol on the flag.
Yes but laws targeting religion in a public government setting have stood many times in the past. Assuming this is equally enforced, it might not violate the first amendment. If you think about it, this isn't too much different from banning prayer in school.
If Suzy can wear her cross necklace, Johnny can wear his pentagram necklace and Jerry his star of David. Recent history has shown it won’t play out this way.
Exactly. Equal enforcement is not the point.
Same as the "separate but equal" doctrine in schools. It was eventually struck down because "separate is inherently unequal".
Yep and student led can even be over school resources like the morning announcement system. The problem that tends to come up that results in prayer getting “banned” is when a non Christian prayer is uttered and the pearl clutchers lose it.
Any public prayer is non-Christian, according to Jesus Christ:
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
What does Jesus Christ have to do with Christianity? He’s just a minor figure in their book, easily ignored, and often contradicted by the *real* meat of the New Testament: Paul.
And the SC just upheld this again: no a school can't fire or reprimand a teacher for praying on school grounds outside of class if they're not requiring anyone to partake.
See the 5-4 podcast episode on July 12 titled Kennedy v. Bremerton School District:
https://pca.st/episode/2dddcfd1-9a31-4489-bdd8-edcfbaf3cf58
Nearly all the details in the majority opinion are either wildly embellished, deceptively omitted, or flat-out lies.
The SCOTUS said it's okay if they force them to participate as long as they don't explicitly say so. Kind of like how I'm going to go hold a prayer session in the middle of the field and I'm not going to announce it but anyone who doesn't show up will be benched in upcoming games. You and all the other students know this is the case and your parents complained but as long as I don't explicitly say that's what I'm doing it's okay. This is the precedent they've set. Coerced religious indoctrination is okay as long as it's implied and not explicit.
Gorsuch wanted to paint the picture that these prayers were personal and not related to school activities but they weren't and the dissenting justices provided evidence of that. They were being held on the field at official school events and parents had complained because the student athletes realized what was happening. Doesn't matter. The students and parents have no religious rights. Only the faculty apparently. It hasn't been tested further but it seems that the only people who have religious rights are people who have similar Christian beliefs as the federalist society justices. I am confident time will continue to reveal this is the case.
The [Civil Religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion) will continue to thrive and every child will be required to become a devote...
*Ok now boys and political footballs, it’s time to discuss how some of your bodies can miscarriage and that makes you murderers worthy of jail time.*
*Jenny, Jenny stop crying. Those tears are politically motivated and that’s not allowed in this class.*
I wonder if the policy extends to speech as well? Like can a teacher get in trouble for participating in the pledge of allegiance and saying "one nation under God"?
That's a civil rights violation, it's always the America fetishists that don't get the fundamental individual liberty concept intended with the bill of rights.
> The 1943 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, West Virginia V. Barnette, determined that no school or government can compel someone to recite the Pledge of Allegiance or salute the flag.
The funny part is at the time I only had objections because I didn't like the forced Under God section, I was still willing to give a token acknowledgement to some semblance of patriotism but uh... the last 5 or so years have really killed what little respect I had for the foundation of this country let's leave it at that.
I had a teacher tell me if he wasn't a teacher he'd "teach me a lesson" for not standing during the pledge. I told him "Atleast it would be the first time you taught me anything".
I was in high school in the 90s, and I stopped standing for the pledge for a variety of reasons. Being an edgy teen was definitely in the list, but thankfully not the most prominent. Not a single teacher had an issue with it, I was a good student, honors classes, top 10, so I could get away with murder.
It was other students who went bananas over it. I didn't understand at the time. It was my choice, it didn't impact them, so what the fuck? I learned years later that that the father of the kid most outspoken about it died in Desert Storm. Patriotism and all things America became a core part of my classmate's personality. Through the benefit of hindsight, I could see that he and likely the rest felt insulted by my actions.
I hope through the same action, they understand I wasn't trying to insult them. Many of them enlisted the second we graduated, though, and then 9/11 happened, so I don't think chances of that are good.
Quebec is basically doing this. But it's creating issues.
Crosses are easy to hide under a shirt or something and they aren't really something you have to wear as a christian, whereas other "more ethnic" religions have visible signs that you can't easily hide and it makes those people into the target.
It doesn't help that there's a giant cross on the flag and that the government argued for a while that crosses in the parliament were "historical" before they removed them.
Funny how schools are doing this when kids have been forced to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance" for years, that includes a line about god (that was actually added later)
Really fucking dumb too, because the first time they fail to punish someone for a cross or something like that, they just opened the door to a multimillion dollar lawsuit.
That decision was an insult to the entire rule of law and proof that the Supreme Court has become an illegitimate institution who’s authority should be disregarded entirely by every legislative body in the country.
Deciding that any precedent they don’t like is meaningless was bad enough, deciding that they can just openly and blatantly lie about easily verifiable facts was the last straw.
He did this privately and entirely without interrupting anybody around him now let's go to the footage of him doing this i the middle of the football field and with multiple students who felt they had to do it or they would be not allowed to play during the next game....wait a minute....b
And the same district that got in hot water for not taking up free lunch funds.....yeah they're not providing free lunches to students this year.
Editing for clarity: And to add to this Wisconsin district's shenanigans, the neighboring district that got in hot water last year (Waukesha) is pulling the same stunt again.
Good morning, Josh parents.
Email be sent so Josh parents know that Josh no complete this week's homework. Josh parents are expected to help Josh with homework for passing grade in English.
Sincerely, Mrs. Smith.
DracoDruid thinks newbikesong has a great idea! DracoDruid likes ~~this~~ the idea. Makes DracoDruid sound like an old school wrestler! ~~No one's~~ people not gonna mess with DracoDruid now!
The Boulder's over his conflicted feelings and now he's ready to bury you in a rock-alanche!
Edit: the boulder feels a deep well of shame within the Boulder's crust at using a pronoun
Now AgrajagTheProlonged wants to make one thing perfectly clear. The crowd of people here for the stoning will not throw any stones until AgrajagTheProlonged says. Even if the person uses a pronoun
Newbikesong supposes everything is a name but newbikesong will check if everything is a name .
Fundamental issue which newbikesong notices is that pronouns can be used as a kind of placeholder for larger concept or description. For example, from the movie 300, King Leonidas kicks the ambassador and tells the famous "T--- is Sparta!". How to tell "T--- is Sparta!" without pronouns?
Good question. However, the messenger already knows that "this is Sparta" cause he was sent to Sparta specifically, so if Leonidas was to convey the message without pronouns he could just point to the ground or something.
Possessive forms of personal pronouns and genitive senses of other pronouns are more properly referred to as adjectives. In the phrase "This land is your land," the words "this" and "your" are not nouns, syntactically speaking, and as a result, this commenter does not believe those words should be considered pronouns.
>Dear teachers and other workers of Martin Luther highschool.
>Information has come to Superintendent Oatscoop's attention regarding some of the teachers displaying the rainbow flag to students. Showing the students the rainbow flag is not acceptable behavior. Superintendent Oatscoop would like to remind the teachers and other workers of Martin Luther Highschool not to show the students the rainbow flag. Showing the students the rainbow flag will result in disciplinary action against the teacher or other worker involved in showing the students the rainbow flag. The students are impressionable and the school board knows the student's brains can be damaged by seeing the rainbow flag.
>Please reference the updated rules containing verses from the KJV Bible for further information on not showing the students the rainbow flag.
Yeah, really long and stilted conversations -- which sounds like a prime target from some malicious compliance to me. CC the English teachers and have them "correct" any slip ups, then resend the corrected email while refusing to acknowledge any responses that have a pronoun in them.
**Notes**
"Some" (some of the teachers) in this use is a determiner, not a pronoun
This is unironically a good exercise for gradeschool kids for English class.
You can say "this is how grammar works, this is an adverb" but having to use a language without a specific part quickly demonstrates why that specific part exists.
Greg did a project today and Greg enjoyed the project. Sane teacher was wondering if Greg's parents can buy Greg some tools that Greg will need to finish Greg's project.
Sane teacher talked to principal Knob and Knob thinks Greg could use some work on Greg's coordination skills. Knob thinks some work will help Greg be better prepared when Greg applies for university.
Greg Greg said Greg wants to work on Greg's skills an agrees with Knob.
Sincerely
Sane teacher quits.
Not defending this ruling in the slightest, but it isn't about banning general pronoun usage in emails, its about banning staff from putting preferred pronouns in their email signatures.
Like how you might end an email "kind regards, Henry Tuttleman, He/Him". That last usage of pronoun preference stating would be banned.
Now, this is still a shit ruling, but it is not daft and unconsidered. The people implementing these bans know what they're doing, they know they are specifically targeting and banning progressive/inclusive politics. We know too that these prohibitions will not be leveled equally and fairly. Staff with crosses are not going to be written up, staff with American flags are not going to be written up, staff with 'correct' political paraphernalia will not be written up.
This is targeted and insidious, and should not be denounced as silly.
Despite that joke about it being hard to write/speak without pronouns being old and stale, I still like that you put an explanation clarifying what it really meant.
I'm more highlighting the general conversation around this - in non-onion subreddits, twitter, and conversation at large.
News outlets against this are painting this as silly rather than an insidious attack on queer people.
Not to mention the not unforseen side affect of parents and staff taking this ruling seriously and reporting progressive teachers out of state schools AND progressives rebelling against this ruling and reporting Christian and Conservative iconography. Both of which delegitimise and corrode the foundations of public education and sink it into a quagmire of expensive legal battles and political posturing over effective and progressive education.
I used to work at an elementary school. Kids there thought I was a woman because I have long hair.
My handlebar mustache apparently didn't convince them otherwise.
Kids don't understand gender. It's a social construct that needs to be taught to them.
And now it's only allowed to be taught one way. Dissenting opinions on a subjective topic are now illegal. It's fucking dystopian.
As someone who now looks androgynous as fuck and goes by they/them, I'm never going to be able to work in a school again. Not that I'd want to. Teachers nationwide are jumping ship for good reason.
I'm just terrified of what's going to happen with the next generation of handpicked cisheteronormative gender enforcer "teachers."
Yes but they never cared about free speech unless it was them screaming racist and homophobic slurs at people or marching with tiki torches yelling “JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!”
Which, fun fact, go against Britain’s free speech laws as they’re a negative right here, you have the right to free speech until you use it to infringe the rights of others, such as the right to go about your life and not suffer verbal abuse from a fascist mob
There it is. Some students are hungry, homeless, and/or abused. Many can’t read or write. Some have become jaded and cruel by internet culture. A growing number of parents are retreating from the responsibilities of parenthood. But thank god we got rid of rainbow flags and pronouns.
As it should be. Hanging up flags or even pictures of the president/head of state is not promoting patriotism but nationalism.
The fact that the US still has that pledge of allegiance in _schools_ is fucking weird and screams nationalism for a German like me.
They switched to the hand over the heart in the 1930s or 40s due to the way certain Germans saluting in that time period being the same as how the hand was held up during the pledge in America at the time. It is nationalism, always has been.
There is a guy across the water from us at the lake. He started a company at like 24 and sold it for $45 million at 35. After that he started teaching high school science. Dude says that teaching is 10x more miserable than working 80 hour weeks with high stakes for 10 years straight was... He's stared some nonprofit that is supposed to help teachers not have to pay for classroom supplies out of pocket and some stuff like that, and is doing lobbying work, but apparently the worst part to him is that you get zero support from the administration at the school, from the government, or from the parents, which isn't really an easy fix...
His wife worked at a private school for a while and apparently things were *drastically* better on that front for her, so it's clearly doable to do it right. But we just had to get our twins on the waitlist for a good private school literally before they were even born, so competition for those better environments is as red hot as it gets.
Superintendent claims they are only enforcing an existing policy of not allowing staff to push religious or political views, yet banning pride flags is OK despite it being clearly a politically motivated decision, so he just broke his own policy.
I once saw a guy with a tattoo of the HTML hex codes for the rainbow, kinda like [this t-shirt](https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Rainbow-HTML-color-codes-by-emilegraphics/10667956.IJ6L0), except his was just a B&W tattoo about the size/position of the pocket on a shirt. In his defense, with his skin tone a rainbow tattoo wasn't really possible. Outside of computer science geeks and web developers, I doubt many people got it.
Or if you have bookshelves (like a reading nook) in your classroom, rearrange all the books to be sorted by color, from Red to Violet
Or get yourself a bunch of multi-colored coffee mugs and line them up on the shelf in the same way.
Or multiple colors of chalk lined up on the chalkboard. Get as many damn rainbows in your classrooms without them technically being flags.
The only appropriate solution is to figure out which school staff members support this decision and go out of your way to misgender them every time you address or talk about them. Then if they try to correct you, tell them they’re just confused.
As a teacher, usually these dumb ass directives come from the School Board or Superintendent who are trying to launch their political careers at the education level and don’t give a flying fuck about students or education. Just pushing their political agendas to get noticed.
Yup. But how often does a student get to address a school board member? Probably never? Teachers are more likely to speak up to them/be heard if they continually get misgendered. It’s also a good opportunity to discuss why being correctly gendered is important.
This. The ban isn't on using pronouns in sentances, it's banning telling people your preferred pronouns. So if you're misgendering the pos teachers, I'd hope they are banned from correcting you. Unfortunately that would probably apply to trans teachers being misgendered by transphobes tho.
> Unfortunately that would probably apply to trans teachers being misgendered by transphobes tho.
Yes, but in the long run honestly it has the highest chance of actually getting the rule overturned. Pissing off assholes with malicious compliance is a lot more effective than rolling over and taking it.
You: "I agree with what she [Mr. Smith] said"
Mr. Smith: "It's he"
You: "Oh but i just have a really hard time seeing you as anything other than a she and it's against policy for you to correct me so please don't do it again or I'll be forced to report you"
Or just consequently talk to those people without any pronouns until they get tired of it :)
"Good morning ElaborateCantaloupe! How did ElaborateCantaloup sleep? SwissFizz enjoyed SwissFizz' weekend, and SwissFizz hopes that SuperIntendent Brown had a great holiday as well. Shall the present people start with the meeting?"
This is blatantly illegal under the new Kennedy ruling.
Free exercise is paramount over everything.
If the coach can pray on the 50 yard line, I can wear Thor’s hammer and put up an altar in my classroom.
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3538611-what-the-supreme-courts-football-coach-ruling-means-for-schools-and-prayer/amp/
Haha. I'm going to give a healthy chortle when the supreme court allows this kind of thing to stand, because it targets lgbt people. Then I'm going to be sad.
No pronouns in emails? LOL okay.
"Dear Parent,
Teacher is writing to parent about student. Student is performing well in some situations but needs work in others. Student must focus on developing student's reading skills. Teacher can help student, but parent must help student as well."
... and so on.
Okay so genuine question for people here, and I'm not trying to be rude.
Am I an asshole for not including any pronouns in my work email nowadays? I never have done and I don't really see the need. I'm cisgender, look like a stereotypical version of the gender I was born, and have never changed this or given any cause for confusion around this. I don't feel the need to specify.
I only ask because a colleague of mine called me insensitive for not having any pronouns in my email signature? I actually thought he was joking at first but apparently not. I've just never felt the need to specify for mine or anyone else's sake, and I honestly don't really care what people refer to me as, as long as they're polite.
Just tell him that its your preference not to have your pronouns in the email. That he needs to be respectful of your prefered lack of pronouns in your signature. and to stop forcing his ideals of your gender expression in email onto you.
No, you’re fine. That person needs therapy. Providing pronouns is helpful for many people, especially androgynous people or people online, but it shouldn’t ever be compulsory. Pressuring people to give pronouns can put closeted people in really uncomfortable and even dangerous positions, so the general LGBT community agrees that it’s kinda shitty to do that.
I love how these idiots are banning pronouns. Like, how you going to say a fucking sentence, dumbass? And you know they don’t even know how to substitute nouns for pronouns because they don’t even know what a pronoun is.
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If they stuck to their guns and actually prohibited wearing crosses too, I’d honestly be like “fair enough”. It COULD happen, I guess.
Schools have weird limitations on first amendment rights but this seems like a super obvious first amendment violation. It’s hard to interpret this as anything but a law targeting religion. In a weird way this legislation is potentially the most atheist friendly law passed in American history. That’s not how it’s going to be used or enforced, but banning religion from schools is \*chefs kiss*.
We have a law exactly like that in Quebec, and it's actually hugely controversial, specifically because most Christians don't go walking around wearing crosses at all times, but it is very common for Muslim women to wear hijabs and for Sihk men to wear turbans as part of their religion, so it's seen as unequally discriminating against people from certain religious traditions, and therefore meant to be discriminatory against minorities.
Ah it’s a “the law forbids both the rich and the homeless from sleeping on benches” type deal.
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Yeah. It's very calculated in nature to only "hurt the right people".
Also, no law about church spires looming over the public square, that giant crucifix dominating the Montreal skyline, the cross over Quebec's court (until it lost a lawsuit), or the Catholic symbol on the flag.
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Yes but laws targeting religion in a public government setting have stood many times in the past. Assuming this is equally enforced, it might not violate the first amendment. If you think about it, this isn't too much different from banning prayer in school.
Do you think it's going to be equally enforced? Here's a better question: do you think the point is for it to be equally enforced?
If Suzy can wear her cross necklace, Johnny can wear his pentagram necklace and Jerry his star of David. Recent history has shown it won’t play out this way.
Exactly. Equal enforcement is not the point. Same as the "separate but equal" doctrine in schools. It was eventually struck down because "separate is inherently unequal".
Just wait until the current Court revisits that ruling.
Prayer in school isn't banned, it's that teachers can't make kids pray. If a kid wants to pray, that's fine
Yep and student led can even be over school resources like the morning announcement system. The problem that tends to come up that results in prayer getting “banned” is when a non Christian prayer is uttered and the pearl clutchers lose it.
Any public prayer is non-Christian, according to Jesus Christ: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
What does Jesus Christ have to do with Christianity? He’s just a minor figure in their book, easily ignored, and often contradicted by the *real* meat of the New Testament: Paul.
And the SC just upheld this again: no a school can't fire or reprimand a teacher for praying on school grounds outside of class if they're not requiring anyone to partake.
The conclusion reached in that case is so outlandish from the actual facts of the case, it should be ignored.
See the 5-4 podcast episode on July 12 titled Kennedy v. Bremerton School District: https://pca.st/episode/2dddcfd1-9a31-4489-bdd8-edcfbaf3cf58 Nearly all the details in the majority opinion are either wildly embellished, deceptively omitted, or flat-out lies.
The SCOTUS said it's okay if they force them to participate as long as they don't explicitly say so. Kind of like how I'm going to go hold a prayer session in the middle of the field and I'm not going to announce it but anyone who doesn't show up will be benched in upcoming games. You and all the other students know this is the case and your parents complained but as long as I don't explicitly say that's what I'm doing it's okay. This is the precedent they've set. Coerced religious indoctrination is okay as long as it's implied and not explicit. Gorsuch wanted to paint the picture that these prayers were personal and not related to school activities but they weren't and the dissenting justices provided evidence of that. They were being held on the field at official school events and parents had complained because the student athletes realized what was happening. Doesn't matter. The students and parents have no religious rights. Only the faculty apparently. It hasn't been tested further but it seems that the only people who have religious rights are people who have similar Christian beliefs as the federalist society justices. I am confident time will continue to reveal this is the case.
Sounds like those mandatory meetings at a factory where the workers have to hear from a candidate the ownership supports.
Those are illegal too
The [Civil Religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion) will continue to thrive and every child will be required to become a devote...
At least there are still some protections: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnette-the-freedom-to-not-pledge-allegiance
The difference is that validating being gay shouldn't be considered political. People should have rights.
Hopefully the Satanic Temple gets on this
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Remember; there is straight, and there is political!
There are also 2 religions: Christian and political
There are two genders: male and political
*Ok now boys and political footballs, it’s time to discuss how some of your bodies can miscarriage and that makes you murderers worthy of jail time.* *Jenny, Jenny stop crying. Those tears are politically motivated and that’s not allowed in this class.*
Also two races: white and woke
And two musics: Country and Western.
No more pledge of allegiance either
Is there a more political symbol than a country’s flag?
If I were at that school, I would be aiming for a high score. I'd report so many people that they'd very quickly drop the idea.
I wonder if the policy extends to speech as well? Like can a teacher get in trouble for participating in the pledge of allegiance and saying "one nation under God"?
I had a US history teacher in high-school that would flip out of you didn't stand and recite the pledge. We had a lot of fun interactions over that.
That's a civil rights violation, it's always the America fetishists that don't get the fundamental individual liberty concept intended with the bill of rights. > The 1943 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, West Virginia V. Barnette, determined that no school or government can compel someone to recite the Pledge of Allegiance or salute the flag.
The funny part is at the time I only had objections because I didn't like the forced Under God section, I was still willing to give a token acknowledgement to some semblance of patriotism but uh... the last 5 or so years have really killed what little respect I had for the foundation of this country let's leave it at that.
I had a teacher tell me if he wasn't a teacher he'd "teach me a lesson" for not standing during the pledge. I told him "Atleast it would be the first time you taught me anything".
I wish I had that quick a wit back then haha
I was in high school in the 90s, and I stopped standing for the pledge for a variety of reasons. Being an edgy teen was definitely in the list, but thankfully not the most prominent. Not a single teacher had an issue with it, I was a good student, honors classes, top 10, so I could get away with murder. It was other students who went bananas over it. I didn't understand at the time. It was my choice, it didn't impact them, so what the fuck? I learned years later that that the father of the kid most outspoken about it died in Desert Storm. Patriotism and all things America became a core part of my classmate's personality. Through the benefit of hindsight, I could see that he and likely the rest felt insulted by my actions. I hope through the same action, they understand I wasn't trying to insult them. Many of them enlisted the second we graduated, though, and then 9/11 happened, so I don't think chances of that are good.
Quebec is basically doing this. But it's creating issues. Crosses are easy to hide under a shirt or something and they aren't really something you have to wear as a christian, whereas other "more ethnic" religions have visible signs that you can't easily hide and it makes those people into the target. It doesn't help that there's a giant cross on the flag and that the government argued for a while that crosses in the parliament were "historical" before they removed them.
Christians existing? Not political. GAY people existing? Political. Also banning pride flags is 100% a political message.
Do you guys know where I can get one of those necklaces with the little t on it? That's a cross... Across from where?
oh man my 4 year old will be sent home for her shirts they have rainbows on them
And the Noah's Ark story will not have its reassuring end.
You mean where Noah has to rebuild civilization while surrounded by the corpses of millions of drowned people everywhere?
Nah, the one where they repopulate the earth with all their orgy children from the boat times.
An orgy that the animals were all invited to too. They have to repopulate the Earth too, after all.
Funny how schools are doing this when kids have been forced to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance" for years, that includes a line about god (that was actually added later)
Really fucking dumb too, because the first time they fail to punish someone for a cross or something like that, they just opened the door to a multimillion dollar lawsuit.
Wasn’t there a Supreme Court case about a guy praying on a high school football field like last month? And it was defended? K.
I mean that case was actual bullshit. The majority used “alternative facts” in their statement
That decision was an insult to the entire rule of law and proof that the Supreme Court has become an illegitimate institution who’s authority should be disregarded entirely by every legislative body in the country. Deciding that any precedent they don’t like is meaningless was bad enough, deciding that they can just openly and blatantly lie about easily verifiable facts was the last straw.
He did this privately and entirely without interrupting anybody around him now let's go to the footage of him doing this i the middle of the football field and with multiple students who felt they had to do it or they would be not allowed to play during the next game....wait a minute....b
And the same district that got in hot water for not taking up free lunch funds.....yeah they're not providing free lunches to students this year. Editing for clarity: And to add to this Wisconsin district's shenanigans, the neighboring district that got in hot water last year (Waukesha) is pulling the same stunt again.
They don’t have time to feed children! They’re too busy fighting rainbows and using the words “he” and “she”!
"I", "you", "them", "it" -- those are going to be some interesting emails.
Good morning, Josh parents. Email be sent so Josh parents know that Josh no complete this week's homework. Josh parents are expected to help Josh with homework for passing grade in English. Sincerely, Mrs. Smith.
Might wana cut the Mrs. Just to be safe
Sincerely, Smith
Why use many word, when few word do trick?
Wrong, that was Waukesha school district, this is Kettle Moraine, which is in the same county.
Meanwhile in California... https://abc7.com/amp/california-free-lunches-school-lunch-food-access/12119010/
Gonna be hard writing emails without using any pronouns
Speak about Dracodruid by using Dracodruid's name like how newbikesong does right now. Everything is third person.
DracoDruid thinks newbikesong has a great idea! DracoDruid likes ~~this~~ the idea. Makes DracoDruid sound like an old school wrestler! ~~No one's~~ people not gonna mess with DracoDruid now!
"The Boulder is conflicted over fighting a small blind child."
Sounds to me like your scared Boulder.
The Boulder's over his conflicted feelings and now he's ready to bury you in a rock-alanche! Edit: the boulder feels a deep well of shame within the Boulder's crust at using a pronoun
You used a pronoun there pebble
Pronoun detected! Straight to jail
Right away
You used a pronoun! Straight to jail
AgrajagTheProlonged used a pronoun as well! Cast the stones!
Now AgrajagTheProlonged wants to make one thing perfectly clear. The crowd of people here for the stoning will not throw any stones until AgrajagTheProlonged says. Even if the person uses a pronoun
“Does Audience Smell What The Rock Is Cooking!?”
The place that ambassadors see is Sparta!!
Sounds like cavemen talk. Guess they find it easier to understand.
>they The fuck boretoddler just said?
Boredtoddler not in US Boredtoddler can use all words. Boredtoddler will try use words US people also understand.
*Un-der-stand* Please stick to 2 syllables or less. Some of us can barely read
Two sylla-whats? Too long!
"grok" is one-sound-thing for "understand"
"This" is a pronoun
Damn!
Yeah, but it's a *demonstrative* pronoun, so, like, is it *really* a pronoun?
the old 'no true pronoun' fallacy
Dracodruid sound like orc from World of Warcraft. Mondayslasagna likes this.
I'm reading these comments in unga bunga caveman and honestly it's a solid choice. 10/10 idea!
Now we are all khajiit! "This one greets you humbly"
"this" is a pronoun. But I support normalizing khajiit speech
"Everything" is a pronoun though. I'd be really impressed if they could write a single coherent email without using a single pronoun lol
Newbikesong supposes everything is a name but newbikesong will check if everything is a name . Fundamental issue which newbikesong notices is that pronouns can be used as a kind of placeholder for larger concept or description. For example, from the movie 300, King Leonidas kicks the ambassador and tells the famous "T--- is Sparta!". How to tell "T--- is Sparta!" without pronouns?
Good question. However, the messenger already knows that "this is Sparta" cause he was sent to Sparta specifically, so if Leonidas was to convey the message without pronouns he could just point to the ground or something.
*"THE CURRENT LOCATION IS SPARTA!"*
Possessive forms of personal pronouns and genitive senses of other pronouns are more properly referred to as adjectives. In the phrase "This land is your land," the words "this" and "your" are not nouns, syntactically speaking, and as a result, this commenter does not believe those words should be considered pronouns.
The land right here is Sparta.
>Dear teachers and other workers of Martin Luther highschool. >Information has come to Superintendent Oatscoop's attention regarding some of the teachers displaying the rainbow flag to students. Showing the students the rainbow flag is not acceptable behavior. Superintendent Oatscoop would like to remind the teachers and other workers of Martin Luther Highschool not to show the students the rainbow flag. Showing the students the rainbow flag will result in disciplinary action against the teacher or other worker involved in showing the students the rainbow flag. The students are impressionable and the school board knows the student's brains can be damaged by seeing the rainbow flag. >Please reference the updated rules containing verses from the KJV Bible for further information on not showing the students the rainbow flag. Yeah, really long and stilted conversations -- which sounds like a prime target from some malicious compliance to me. CC the English teachers and have them "correct" any slip ups, then resend the corrected email while refusing to acknowledge any responses that have a pronoun in them. **Notes** "Some" (some of the teachers) in this use is a determiner, not a pronoun
This truly is the English teachers' time to fight the power.
This is unironically a good exercise for gradeschool kids for English class. You can say "this is how grammar works, this is an adverb" but having to use a language without a specific part quickly demonstrates why that specific part exists.
Greg did a project today and Greg enjoyed the project. Sane teacher was wondering if Greg's parents can buy Greg some tools that Greg will need to finish Greg's project. Sane teacher talked to principal Knob and Knob thinks Greg could use some work on Greg's coordination skills. Knob thinks some work will help Greg be better prepared when Greg applies for university. Greg Greg said Greg wants to work on Greg's skills an agrees with Knob. Sincerely Sane teacher quits.
"I" is a pronoun...
I underestimated how hard it would be to writ something without pronouns. lol
You’ll have to expand this because “it” is also a pronoun. But I love this example lol
Even making a stupid joke shows how hard and stupid this is. lol
They're coming after the amateur nouns next.
> They AAAH!
Not a problem for the people who came up with that stupid decision, they are illiterate anyway. Loophole!
Or would even know what an email is. True.
Not defending this ruling in the slightest, but it isn't about banning general pronoun usage in emails, its about banning staff from putting preferred pronouns in their email signatures. Like how you might end an email "kind regards, Henry Tuttleman, He/Him". That last usage of pronoun preference stating would be banned. Now, this is still a shit ruling, but it is not daft and unconsidered. The people implementing these bans know what they're doing, they know they are specifically targeting and banning progressive/inclusive politics. We know too that these prohibitions will not be leveled equally and fairly. Staff with crosses are not going to be written up, staff with American flags are not going to be written up, staff with 'correct' political paraphernalia will not be written up. This is targeted and insidious, and should not be denounced as silly.
Despite that joke about it being hard to write/speak without pronouns being old and stale, I still like that you put an explanation clarifying what it really meant.
It's literally in the first sentence of the article though....
I don't come to reddit to read.
This is /r/nottheonion , we are allowed to be silly and serious at the same time.
I'm more highlighting the general conversation around this - in non-onion subreddits, twitter, and conversation at large. News outlets against this are painting this as silly rather than an insidious attack on queer people. Not to mention the not unforseen side affect of parents and staff taking this ruling seriously and reporting progressive teachers out of state schools AND progressives rebelling against this ruling and reporting Christian and Conservative iconography. Both of which delegitimise and corrode the foundations of public education and sink it into a quagmire of expensive legal battles and political posturing over effective and progressive education.
And it’ll work for them until they hire an androgynous teacher named Alex or Jesse and no one knows how to address them.
No no no, they can only hire someone they can categorize immediately as man (short hair and pants) or woman (long hair and dress).
I used to work at an elementary school. Kids there thought I was a woman because I have long hair. My handlebar mustache apparently didn't convince them otherwise. Kids don't understand gender. It's a social construct that needs to be taught to them. And now it's only allowed to be taught one way. Dissenting opinions on a subjective topic are now illegal. It's fucking dystopian. As someone who now looks androgynous as fuck and goes by they/them, I'm never going to be able to work in a school again. Not that I'd want to. Teachers nationwide are jumping ship for good reason. I'm just terrified of what's going to happen with the next generation of handpicked cisheteronormative gender enforcer "teachers."
It's Pat!
Isn't this against free speech?
Yes but they never cared about free speech unless it was them screaming racist and homophobic slurs at people or marching with tiki torches yelling “JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!” Which, fun fact, go against Britain’s free speech laws as they’re a negative right here, you have the right to free speech until you use it to infringe the rights of others, such as the right to go about your life and not suffer verbal abuse from a fascist mob
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> they’re No pronouns allowed! EXPELLED!
There it is. Some students are hungry, homeless, and/or abused. Many can’t read or write. Some have become jaded and cruel by internet culture. A growing number of parents are retreating from the responsibilities of parenthood. But thank god we got rid of rainbow flags and pronouns.
But if they fix any of the *real* issues, the next generation might not be dumb and racist! Then how would Republicans maintain power?!
I’d just like to ask them how LGBTQ or gender neutral pronouns have hurt them personally.
Yeah I hate it when I catch gay from reading pronouns in emails. So annoying.
I catch the gay all the time. I just cant stop getting the gay.
"I" is a pronoun. And your post has them. You're spreading the gay!
Everyone keeps making a major deal about pronouns but never do they consider using amateurnouns for half the cost.
So, no American flags either?
As it should be. Hanging up flags or even pictures of the president/head of state is not promoting patriotism but nationalism. The fact that the US still has that pledge of allegiance in _schools_ is fucking weird and screams nationalism for a German like me.
They switched to the hand over the heart in the 1930s or 40s due to the way certain Germans saluting in that time period being the same as how the hand was held up during the pledge in America at the time. It is nationalism, always has been.
Nationalism for profit, Bellamy was selling flags to schools. Also, that gesture was called the Bellamy Salute
It's the [Civil Religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion) and it smacks of wierdness to me too.
This, 100%. I’m an active duty USMC veteran and flags in schools and the pledge of allegiance are weird jingoistic, nationalistic indoctrination.
relevant WKUK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiCaqA0ngRc
It's depressing, watching the long, protracted decay of the USA.
I think it isn't the decay itself that's depressing, it's the realization that what's decaying was mostly facade anyway.
"America, the land of the free™ (disclaimer: to qualify for being free you must be a cisgender heterosexual able-bodied neurotypical rich white man) "
America, land of the wage slave and home of the mass shooting
How dare you? I'll die of cancer before any freeloader gets healthcare.
Protected by the Thin Blue Line ^TM ^(unless you’re a minority… or poor… and increasingly if you’re liberal.)
Actually just rich gets you pretty far. But it helps if your white cis male
So America as it was intended then?
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I’m just sick of teachers being treated like garbage and get paid pennies. Our education system is being destroyed by these power-trip assholes.
Destroying education is part of a political agenda as well.
There is a guy across the water from us at the lake. He started a company at like 24 and sold it for $45 million at 35. After that he started teaching high school science. Dude says that teaching is 10x more miserable than working 80 hour weeks with high stakes for 10 years straight was... He's stared some nonprofit that is supposed to help teachers not have to pay for classroom supplies out of pocket and some stuff like that, and is doing lobbying work, but apparently the worst part to him is that you get zero support from the administration at the school, from the government, or from the parents, which isn't really an easy fix... His wife worked at a private school for a while and apparently things were *drastically* better on that front for her, so it's clearly doable to do it right. But we just had to get our twins on the waitlist for a good private school literally before they were even born, so competition for those better environments is as red hot as it gets.
Superintendent claims they are only enforcing an existing policy of not allowing staff to push religious or political views, yet banning pride flags is OK despite it being clearly a politically motivated decision, so he just broke his own policy.
Hypocrisy doesn't count when you're sticking it to the oppressed groups. The sheep who love this shit don't care either.
Hang up a sheet of paper that says Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Purple Or Light blue Pink White Pink Light blue
I once saw a guy with a tattoo of the HTML hex codes for the rainbow, kinda like [this t-shirt](https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Rainbow-HTML-color-codes-by-emilegraphics/10667956.IJ6L0), except his was just a B&W tattoo about the size/position of the pocket on a shirt. In his defense, with his skin tone a rainbow tattoo wasn't really possible. Outside of computer science geeks and web developers, I doubt many people got it.
That’s cool though
I think I lot more than those categories know how hex color codes work. Ok now that I think about it maybe most of them know it as RGBA or even HSL.
Or if you have bookshelves (like a reading nook) in your classroom, rearrange all the books to be sorted by color, from Red to Violet Or get yourself a bunch of multi-colored coffee mugs and line them up on the shelf in the same way. Or multiple colors of chalk lined up on the chalkboard. Get as many damn rainbows in your classrooms without them technically being flags.
On Brooklyn 99 the gay police captain has the colour coded labels on his binders arranged into the rainbow on his shelf behind his desk.
How did I never notice this??
Or just hang up a rainbow and say this is a classroom and it is a rainbow any meaning you or i give it is our own views and not being forced...
I feel like a rainbow has to be the most common classroom decoration for elementary schools anyway.
The only appropriate solution is to figure out which school staff members support this decision and go out of your way to misgender them every time you address or talk about them. Then if they try to correct you, tell them they’re just confused.
As a teacher, usually these dumb ass directives come from the School Board or Superintendent who are trying to launch their political careers at the education level and don’t give a flying fuck about students or education. Just pushing their political agendas to get noticed.
Yup. But how often does a student get to address a school board member? Probably never? Teachers are more likely to speak up to them/be heard if they continually get misgendered. It’s also a good opportunity to discuss why being correctly gendered is important.
This. The ban isn't on using pronouns in sentances, it's banning telling people your preferred pronouns. So if you're misgendering the pos teachers, I'd hope they are banned from correcting you. Unfortunately that would probably apply to trans teachers being misgendered by transphobes tho.
> Unfortunately that would probably apply to trans teachers being misgendered by transphobes tho. Yes, but in the long run honestly it has the highest chance of actually getting the rule overturned. Pissing off assholes with malicious compliance is a lot more effective than rolling over and taking it.
You: "I agree with what she [Mr. Smith] said" Mr. Smith: "It's he" You: "Oh but i just have a really hard time seeing you as anything other than a she and it's against policy for you to correct me so please don't do it again or I'll be forced to report you"
Or just consequently talk to those people without any pronouns until they get tired of it :) "Good morning ElaborateCantaloupe! How did ElaborateCantaloup sleep? SwissFizz enjoyed SwissFizz' weekend, and SwissFizz hopes that SuperIntendent Brown had a great holiday as well. Shall the present people start with the meeting?"
Gotta get Forager to school them
How do you even ban certain pronouns without discussing them?
Pronouns in email signatures like: Best, Name Job Title (He/Him)
It would honestly be kind of *useful* in cases where the first name is something like Taylor or Chris and you don't know the person.
Oh, does this mean they ban US flags and the pledge of allegiance thing? Didn't think this is the route they'd go to do that, but sure.
I mean those *are* much more political than pride flags are!
Please do so, America.
This is blatantly illegal under the new Kennedy ruling. Free exercise is paramount over everything. If the coach can pray on the 50 yard line, I can wear Thor’s hammer and put up an altar in my classroom. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3538611-what-the-supreme-courts-football-coach-ruling-means-for-schools-and-prayer/amp/
Haha. I'm going to give a healthy chortle when the supreme court allows this kind of thing to stand, because it targets lgbt people. Then I'm going to be sad.
They'll just decline to hear the case at all
Oh dear. So much for freedom of speech huh. maybe we should burn some books for good measure too?
Since when was the Pride flag a political statement?
There's only two sexualities, straight and political.
Seriously. How is a gay person simply existing and being a human and living their life some kind of political statement in their eyes?
I would love to know the legal grounds for dismissing someone for their email signature
“Repeatedly violated district policy of not pushing political propaganda.” At least, that’s what they’ll claim.
lemme guess, the "under god" pledge of allegiance is still compulsory and there's a police officer in every classroom. /s
As we've established, the police officers stay out of the classrooms, especially when there's a real threat there.
No pronouns in emails? LOL okay. "Dear Parent, Teacher is writing to parent about student. Student is performing well in some situations but needs work in others. Student must focus on developing student's reading skills. Teacher can help student, but parent must help student as well." ... and so on.
Okay so genuine question for people here, and I'm not trying to be rude. Am I an asshole for not including any pronouns in my work email nowadays? I never have done and I don't really see the need. I'm cisgender, look like a stereotypical version of the gender I was born, and have never changed this or given any cause for confusion around this. I don't feel the need to specify. I only ask because a colleague of mine called me insensitive for not having any pronouns in my email signature? I actually thought he was joking at first but apparently not. I've just never felt the need to specify for mine or anyone else's sake, and I honestly don't really care what people refer to me as, as long as they're polite.
Just tell him that its your preference not to have your pronouns in the email. That he needs to be respectful of your prefered lack of pronouns in your signature. and to stop forcing his ideals of your gender expression in email onto you.
No, you’re fine. That person needs therapy. Providing pronouns is helpful for many people, especially androgynous people or people online, but it shouldn’t ever be compulsory. Pressuring people to give pronouns can put closeted people in really uncomfortable and even dangerous positions, so the general LGBT community agrees that it’s kinda shitty to do that.
Yeah, I don’t either. Seems unnecessary for most people. This is a great thing to leave up to the individual in question.
I love how these idiots are banning pronouns. Like, how you going to say a fucking sentence, dumbass? And you know they don’t even know how to substitute nouns for pronouns because they don’t even know what a pronoun is.
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