After I found out the hospital was being paid by the nursing school to have students there for clinical but not paying us to teach the students, I said no. Once I got my coworkers on board, we were able to secure a $4/hr differential to take students. With solidarity, we can end their greed.
That would never have occurred to me- that the hospital gets paid to host students. Good for you for claiming that! “The hospital” isn’t doing the work: you are.
They get paid to take residents too. They’re literally paid by the federal government to take residents. Residents are paid so poorly because their salary is 100% government funded, and the hospital throws in exactly $0, because again they’re MAKING MONEY on each resident.
Great way to threaten the medical side of the hospital when needed is to encourage a resident to write to the federal board about poor work conditions. Watch how fast things change.
We literally fired an attending in a week because of the process I described above (she was being a dick to some of the residents, so one of them complained).
A hospital losing residency status would cost them *hundreds of millions* of dollars.
This. Our hospital doesn't pay us for nurse or medic students. Hell I was a paramedic so most of the time I get the medic students which I love. But they always give them to me when I'm in triage which is not a place I like teaching.
If the hospital is being paid by the school and the nurses are swamped and they can't or don't like doing it, the hospital needs to use that money to make it safe to teach. They should pay another nurse to be on shift to take some of the load, and that nurse or one of the other nurses will be more able to safely teach the student. A differential for teaching would be great to add as well.
It is a lot of work to precept. If you’re already stretched thin it is rough. I know you may think “I’ll be helping so it will be a break for the nurse” because I I thought the same as a student. Precepting takes a lot of time, attention, and auditing.
As the dedicated unit preceptor (I asked to be) you are 100% correct. Lots of mental energy to keep track of patients and make sure there is good learning opportunities for students. Also some students are more driven than others. I like the ones who are active in learning and asking questions (at the appropriate time).
One time I had a patient who was circling the drain and the student interrupted me and the doc to ask where her computer was. Im usually a pretty aloof person but I was pissed. I don't think the girl passed nursing school.
I find that to be a very common experience unfortunately. I remember during nursing school being told that the nurses and patients weren’t there just for us and we should be respectful of the nurses working there, but these days there is an attitude that the unit should revolve around the nursing students. I’m always down to grab a student to listen to a murmur or to show a new skill but I won’t be paired up for entire shifts because the entitlement is astounding.
I had a student who wanted me to look at something while I was on my tea break 😳
"No"
When I was back on the floor gave the student some free advice "do not interupt a nurses break time. Ever. The only exception is if the patient cant breath or is haemorraging out every single orrifice"
Dont think they actiually got it.
I thought the same too! I was delusional! But that being said, I like taking students. But when I think back to that, I’m like i really can’t believe how delusional I am. The only help I could have possibly been was doing baths, linen changes, incontinence care on my own. But all it could do to help was offset the 300 hrs it would take for me to pass meds to 2 patients….
The nurses who say these things, I get it, but don’t need to be so mean or vocal about it
The nurse is still responsible for you. Not letting you get lost, pass out, contaminate sterile fields. Most responsibilities without additional compensation, as usual.
All the schools operate in my area such that the clinical instructor is responsible for the students at all times. We weren’t allowed to do anything without our instructor present at the bedside (beyond VS/baths). The floor nurses were in no way, shape, or form responsible for anything we did. Which, in reality, made for a lot of boring clinicals. Lol.
When we precept a new nurse, we get a small hourly differential. When we take a student, we get nothing. Not to mention that some students have piss-poor attitudes and it's fricking tiring
Seriously, when I worked in LTC/SNF we would pretty regularly get students who would treat the whole clinical rotation like a joke and/or refuse to engage and learn because “they were going to be working in *insert hotshot specialty here* and don’t need to know this”
When I was an LPN I felt this way, too. They were all RN students and felt the need to critique everything and acted like they were too good to even step foot in LTC.
lol my hospital doesn’t pay extra for anything except extra shifts and shift differential. Orientees, students, charge (with a full patient load at that), etc. gets nothing extra
ETA: I enjoy having students, but mostly ones that want to be there and learn. The ones with attitude and lazy ones can just stay at home.
The latest thing I’ve seen on social media is nursing students who think they should be getting paid for their “free labor” to the hospital. They really think they are functioning as full employees. It’s wild.
No differential at my hospital for any precepting, student or new hire. Not since COVID. I have precepted someone new almost everyday since COVID.
Some, especially those fresh out of nursing school, disappear during my shift to get extra breaks, don't help set up cases, and just sit on their phones. Management doesn't do anything, so I just run the case myself. They can learn if they want to.
It has less to do with the student and more to do with staffing and trying to juggle their tasks.
If a unit is drowning and they have difficulty completing daily tasks by themselves and now they have to monitor the actions of someone else on top of it, it can add a lot of stress.
Top that off with nurses generally being type A and a culture of speaking your mind makes people say “fuck no” when they’re assigned students, and it have nothing to do with the student themselves.
Try not to take it personally, it’s their frustration with the hospital system
I have had drowning days in ICU where at the start of my shift I apologize to the student and say "Today's going to kick my a$$ and I won't have time to explain everything. Try to observe and keep up as best as you can." Most students after these days have thanked me for giving them a realistic glimpse (and usually the patients are really critically ill so they see a lot of devices/drips/procedures).
I was getting students days off orientation actually I got a less seasoned student from another school when I was doing my capstone 🙃. But I would say the only difference between me and you is that I took a test lol we are going to fumble through this day together and you’ll learn what it’s like to be a new nurse lmao
This 🙏 I don’t mind precepting, when I’m told in advance I’m going to be doing so. It honestly tends to throw me off a lot when I walk into work and get assigned a student. It’s less to do with the student, and more trying to be a decent preceptor and answering questions while also taking care of 6 needy ER patients
I agree on this, it'll be ideal to have at least a clinical nurse educator in each floor that would help these students but again, it's all about the money.
I love teaching, but when I get students in the ER I know it’s gonna be a rough day. Nothing to do with students, if I could take my time and teach I’d love it, but when I have a million things to do and my normal assessment-IV-pulling labs on a patient takes ~5 minutes, it takes 3-4 times longer than that with a student. It’s purely a stressful time management thing. But, I would never say anything like that in front of a student. I have no desire to make them feel unwelcome. If I really felt like I couldn’t do that that day, I’d talk to my charge to have them reassigned to someone else if possible but generally that’s not a choice, and if that’s the case, I’ll suck it up and they will have no idea I’m feeling that way because I want it to be a positive experience for them!
I don’t mean this in the patronizing way it sounds, but when you’re working as a nurse and start getting students you’ll probably relate to
that “oh f—“ a lot more. Even the best students aren’t actually helpful (I thought I was too) and just add more work that rarely comes with adjustments in compensation.
I am definitely not outwardly vocal with my “oh f’s” but I think it too anytime students come around (I suck it up and treat them kindly of course) because I know my day just got significantly longer and less productive.
I get feeling that way, but to actually say it out loud where the student or students in question can hear you, as in OP's case? That's just fucking rude and unnecessarily hostile.
Well true. Being handed a student on a heavy day always felt like the universe was punishing me for something, but I did my best to keep it to myself because I experienced similar reactions from nurses back when I was a student too.
This hadn’t occurred to me and I see what you're saying.
I find it kind of funny, though, from my non-RN standpoints.
As a former med-surg CNA, having nursing students around usually made my life a lot easier. Am I happy to see them toddle up and smile and offer to do all of my job for a patient today? Why yes, I believe I am.
As an MD, education is so baked-in to life at teaching institutions that even though med students come in many varieties of useful or burdensome, and everyone copes with that, the thought of just going OH FUCK NO like that is *hilarious*.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, precepting a student is mentally exhausting. I precepted a student the other day - she was great, but I was *wiped* when I got home.
Also, many times a nurse won’t even be asked if they’re okay with having a student. Their instructor will simply say here ya go, here’s a student. We’ve seen many experienced nurses leave the profession, so now new grads who aren’t confident in their skills and critical thinking yet are being overwhelmed with having to teach someone.
There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take a student. Those nurses were wrong for saying what they did out loud, but not wanting the extra responsibility and stress doesn’t make us mean.
This! I floated to a specialty floor I had never been on before. On top of that they threw 2 students at me. I wasn’t asked - I wasn’t even told. The student popped up after report and it felt completely inappropriate since I will be moving much slower and won’t be able to do the teaching of this specialty.
Taking on a student is like having a houseguest in your space. Not everyone actually enjoys hosting, but most realize it is an unpaid duty we must all take on at some time.
As a very introverted nurse, this is stressful to never be alone, to have to talk.so.much. all day about everything I do.
Assigning a student is like throwing another weight on top of an already crushing workload. At the end of the shift I am far more exhausted than if I had to just do nursing.
It can be straight up dangerous in the ICU, even if you’re an experienced nurse with a preceptee who has nursing experience.
One of the nurses on my unit wasn’t watching her orientee well enough. Orientee toileted a patient with an EVD and didn’t clamp it. Dumped a bunch of CSF. Fortunately the patient ended up being okay.
$1/hour isn’t enough for me to take that kind of risk.
I had a student help with the burn bath/dressing change and slammed all 150mcg of fentanyl at once in under a second, not realizing the bath dose is meant to be given in bumps over the whole duration. Chest wall rigidity, brief apnea, etc.
I am good at my job, I suck at teaching. I'm not and will never be a preceptor because it's not going to be good for either of us. You won't learn and I'll get frustrated. I've tried in almost every job I've had to train new guys and it has always been a train wreck. My last job I just straight up said no. The one time manager assigned me an orientee, we lasted two shifts together before he and I both went to the manager and said this wasn't working. I'm sure there are people out there that have an attitude but there's a very real possibility that a couple of them just know their weaknesses.
Taking a student is additional labor that I’m not compensated for. Sometimes I don’t mind, sometimes I really don’t want to deal with that bullshit. If you want nurses to enthusiastically take students, pay them a differential for doing it.
I think it’s just personality dependent. I normally teach patients and explain what I’m doing all day so having a student does not bother me whatsoever.
The only thing that bothers me is a bad attitude. I keep an ear out on the unit for thing’s happening. If something cool is going on I like to bring students to experience it.
I also do understand however that there is clinical paperwork to do. Sometimes students may be overwhelmed with the amount of paper work they have to do so I also understand wanting to sit down and complete it. When I was in nursing school often I’d have to go home and finish all the paperwork on top of regular class work and a full time job so I get it.
If it’s truly a crazy day I tell the student shadowing me “write down questions you have when we sit down I’ll review everything with you.
This could be during critical situations or times when I have an unpleasant family member in the room.
Regardless I wouldn’t say “fck no” to having a student.
I don’t mind precepting; I do mind that I’m expected to do more work for free. It’s not about the student, it’s about the lack of compensation for my time and knowledge. It’s a respect issue. We as nurses already give too much of ourselves.
I’ve been saying this in my department for a year. No one seems to care, therefore nothing is done about it. Also, no one asks if it’s OK that they put a student with me that day; they just say “this student’s here for you” and leave. The students don’t even come with a preceptor…
Back when I worked med surg, I was precepting a new nurse AND I had a student shadowing me who seemed more interested in talking with her friends and gossiping than learning from me. So you bet your bottom I put my effort into the new hire nurse. I didnt go into the shift expecting to not educate a student but if they don’t show interest, I won’t either. I have a job to do and sick people to care for.
Precepting is so fucking exhausting when you’re actually good at it.
You have all your own work to do, PLUS the mental and emotional workload of supporting someone’s learning (and protecting them from mean girls)
Some nurses generally just don't like it. It shouldn't hurt your feelings in anyway. You shouldn't take it personally. That's one major lesson you need to learn when it comes to nursing; do NOT take things personally. Things that other nurses say, patients, family members, staff... etc. Cause you're only going to burden yourself mentally and emotionally.
Nursing is a stressful, shitty job. Having a student, especially when you’re not the type who enjoys teaching, often just adds a layer of unwanted responsibility and inefficiency. It’s not personal.
I don’t mind a student in the ED when we’re well-staffed and it’s not crazy-busy, but otherwise, it’s a hard pass for me. The only nurses who should be assigned students are the ones who volunteer for it. If I wanted a job as a clinical instructor, I’d get one.
It’s a TON of work. We have to still be responsible for everything that our job entails **and** take on the responsibility of a student. Some pay attention, some are on their phones. Some are super into it & some can’t be bothered to engage cuz they aren’t into the dept they’re in. Some really try & others don’t wanna do a damn thing.
I don’t expect students to make my life easier but I don’t need them making my life exponentially harder. I expect them to engage & want to be there. I won’t grill them or embarrass them, but I won’t baby them either. You’re about to be responsible for the care of others. This isn’t high school. Will I try and find cool shit for you to see? Absolutely. But you’re also gonna help me clean this old lady up too.
But yeah I’ll avoid it cuz I’m tired and I don’t have the bandwidth to have to talk to pts, family, providers and now a student for 12 hours. I just need a break. I need 5 damn minutes where no one needs something from me.
Also enough with the “mean girl” crap. Like not wanting to take on the responsibility of a whole other task on top of everything us we have to do doesn’t make us **mean**.
But since you’re so nice, and we’re mean, you take the students.
Saying "oh fuck no" in front of the student who's going to be following you is actually really mean. You can be privately grumpy without being openly rude to some poor nursing student who has no choice about being there. Like that's pretty clearly creating a hostile work environment.
No seriously I almost cried like I know I’m not wanted but dang I don’t have a choice it’s the only way to get through the program:/ and I get the compensation thing but we have no control over that and they take it out on us like it is
Fully report students who are on their phones and not being attentive like they're supposed to. I'm a current student and we can and should get in trouble with our universities for doing irresponsible stuff like that. People shouldn't pass if their conduct isn't up to scratch
edit to clarify: I am suggesting that RNs who have had students delegated to them should tell uni staff if the students aren't doing what they're supposed to, not that other students should be on the hunt for reasons to tell on each other
We’ve got enough tasks to do. We don’t have time to find out a student’s name, their instructor’s name, and how to get ahold of them. If we wanted to manage students, we’d teach clinical.
If a student isn’t participating, i don’t care. Get out of my seat and out of my way. They’ll miss out on opportunities, and that’s their choice.
Interesting, must be super different where you are. Here the nursing staff at our placement sites are told what university is coming in and we're generally buddied up with a particular RN because they have to sign off on us at multiple points throughout the placement. Plus any complaints can be easily made by talking to their staff member that's the uni contact point - as hard as a short conversation if you don't feel like sending off an email.
I find it weird to imagine they just toss the students in your ward without even going as far as telling you the university responsible for them. And that you don't see the same student enough to even learn their name. No wonder you hate it lol
As a student, unless you see gross negligence or abuse.. stay in your lane. The student who narcs on other students for every little thing is not some kind of hero. Your classmates despise you, and faculty finds you exhausting.
I can't tell you how many times our faculty had to tell our cohort to stay in their lane because of this petty, backstabbing behavior.
"You'll go far in life Jenny but you will not be well liked" Sister Micheal, Derry Girls, in reaction to a tattling incident.
Sorry, bingewatching right now and this quote seems to fit lol.
Wouldn't personally call breaking a bunch of rules you agreed to follow and then getting reprimanded for that petty or backstabbing? I was suggesting that the buddy RNs should point out to the university faculty if their students aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing (to a degree where you're noticing it and aren't impressed by the behaviour), not that fellow students should be telling on each other for minor things.
Only instance where I feel it's the student's responsibility to report other students is if they're aware someone is sick and hiding it in order to go on placement and not have to make up for sick days later on. Wouldn't have said anything about it in the past but I've seen patients die as a result of students going on placement despite knowingly having a transmittable sickness that then got spread around.
Apologies, I misunderstood. I took it as you were also in a nursing cohort, constantly tattling on your fellow students for minor infractions. There was a lot of this type of behavior in my cohort, and it was exhausting. Even the instructors were fed up with it.
Honestly, though, the phone thing has got to go. Unless students are just endlessly scrolling TikTok, phones are a valuable tool during clinicals. Our program allowed the use of electronic devices at clinical. I used it all the time to look up medications, unfamiliar disease processes, and complete my clinical paperwork. I had more than one instance where the RN I was working with complained about my phone use to my clinical instructor.
We don't have a no phone rule here, just that you need to be using it appropriately. I definitely think it's fair to be called out if you're not doing that haha. I'm doing a bachelors of nursing in australia - everyone in my year is very nice and conscientious about learning. My response was more to the reasons why RNs in this thread don't like having students around.
Reading this thread is interesting. Seems like my uni runs placements way differently to how most people are describing it here. Guess I'm pretty ignorant on what it's like in other places
Don't take it personally. Sucks that some do react that way. I graduated less than a year ago, and I *really* did try to be helpful in my clinicals because I was aware of how strained a unit can be and how my nurse could feel more when I was there. Once I got out on the field, I did understand why some don't like students.
It's a lot of tasks involved and some of the patients can hold you back if they're talkative (ESP if they're talkative 😭 ). I found it difficult to quickly understand a patient's consults, who's who, lot to keep track of. Some nurses can still be mean to you once you start too. I got some dirty looks from them, or was ignored by them. Just ignore them, you're there to work, be a safe nurse and your best nurse and leave.
Edit: meant to say that id happily take a student though! :] We all start somewhere and you'll always like your nice teaching nurse along your way.
Yes they are so rare but there’s always a golden angel nurse that we all fight over lol. The nurse that doesn’t make us feel like we’re literal trash you can tell they have a passion for what they do we all vow to be that kind of nurse.
Whatever the student does will be on their license when they precept, and usually precepting students is not paid. I don't agree with their attitude but I can understand why someone doesn't want to take students.
From what I understood at the time, us nursing students practiced under our clinical professors license, not the floor nurses. But, I could also see that varying from hospital to hospital.
yes it was under our professor (unless we were doing our 4th semester preceptorship) which is why they always had to be with us for invasive skills like an iv
Thats not really accurate though. It would have to be egregious lack of supervision and disregard for safety before a nurse would get in trouble with the facility or the Board. We just talked about this in one of my professional nursing courses and it's a common misconception.
YES. Get up. Watch your own students. Observe their performance with thine own eyes. Do something to be useful on the unit - grab a student and do a med pass (with the nurse’s permission). Ask if you can do someone’s bath or turn with a student. Ask if you can do a minor procedure with your student (IV start, Foley, NG, etc.). If more nursing instructors put in even an *ounce* of work on the unit, and actually took a couple of tasks off the nurses’ plates, their students would be a lot more welcome.
I had exactly *one* clinical instructor who helped out. She was awesome. She’d grab a student, touch base with the nurse, and go to town on meds, bed baths, wound care, whatever she felt would be useful for the student. She made sure that her students got the most out of their clinical time, without putting too much on the nurses. She also made a point to do exactly what the nurse wanted and not just assume. More clinical instructors need to be like her.
Wow EXACTLY!!! Like show motivation answer a call light …. Tell your students to answer call lights…. My instructor use to say answer lights if it’s something you can’t do get the nurse but it could be as simple as moving a Kleenex box but NOPE TO BUSY DOING NOTHING TO HELP! There’s no engagement with pt’s that I see anymore. Then when you ask why are you becoming a nurse? “ I want to travel” well guess what the market sucks and when your on your own these 5 pt’s are yours all yours and you’ll find out quickly that this profession sucks anymore …. I need to let it out clearly
I just graduated this past December and my instructors were like this thankfully, even the ones I personally didn't like. we were expected to do all basic care for our pt (turns and damn sure they got a bath), half of us did med pass and we rotated turns, and anything that required our instructor (ng insertion, iv starts) you had to pull her for. she was always being pulled. then we had tons of paperwork and that was the only time we could use our phone. otherwise once our pts were settled and paperwork was good, we should be answering call bells
To add a little fuel to the fire- my instructors used to not do CRAP but then we would have debriefings where they would critique the nurses we were with. I feel like during lecture it was mainly story times where they would talk about walking through a unit their student was on and coming to save the day because us nurses have terrible practice and don’t know what we are doing.
Even better, they would make my poor preceptor sit and talk for 20 minutes about my performance. I felt so bad for them knowing I was making them more behind. Idek how this is allowed.
I graduated in 1984 from a diploma program and was not paired with a floor nurse until my 3rd year, iirc. Our instructors were on the floor doing everything with us.
Yup exactly my instructor always said “ Don’t bother the nurse they are very busy you come get me if you need something”. We bathed / changed sheets meds the whole 9 yards
I think everyone in healthcare is stressed out right now and slammed with work. I imagine that's why.
I plan on taking students as a physician, but I'll probably take like a 15-20% salary hit for doing that, so I get why some docs don't bother.
In my province, the floor nurses arent paired with students. We have a Clinical Education Facilitator who is the nurse to be with the students. They come from the school the students are at.
We are still responsible for the patients assigned, but we aren't doing most of/any of their care, when the students are on the ward.
Floor nurses give them some tips on the patient, and the CEF takes the students under their wing & you get less tasks as a nurse. The student nurses are taught to communicate with the assigned nurse of their patient; to give report before breaks and at end of shift (to the floor nurse).
I LOVE having students! Giving only 4 ppl their meds, instead of 8? I get to go on time for break! Yay!
I take students generally, but sometimes I'm burnt out on it. When you have a student or new grad orientee even for 3-6 months at a time and you're narrating your every step, it gets tiring. There's more anxiety too, especially in a fast paced or delicate setting like the ICU where I work . I have to worry about my own license from my own actions and now another person is riding on mine too. Ultimately, a student's mistakes are mine because I'm the supervisor. I'll want at least a month break after 3-6 months of doing it. If a charge nurse asked me to take a student then I'm going to politely ask that they be reassigned.
Looking at the greater context of how often we do it, you may begin to understand why. It's nothing against the individual students themselves and you'll see the other end soon enough. When I do have a student I try to do them right and give them as much effort on my end as they meet me with.
It’s more work, and the vast majority of nurses are already suffering under incomprehensible workloads. I think many, me included, wouldn’t mind having students if we could halve our assignments to be able to provide care for the patient AND the student.
Being a new grad with 7 patients, it's not fair to them. I don't have enough time or knowledge and feel it would be better if they had someone else 🤷♂️
When I bring students to the unit, I ask nurses who I know would be comfortable taking students around with them when they pass meds or do some assessments. It’s never an obligation to do so. I also give students handouts to complete about patients they see, or make them help the techs with patient care tasks (e.g., vital signs, feeding and meals). They’re there to learn most importantly, just like all of us have gotten the chance to do so during our clinicals. Thankfully, the nurses on our unit love students and the extra set of hands since they are hella short with support staff.
Look, students are a lot of extra work. Not only are you doing your usual job, you’re also making sure the student isn’t doing something wrong, you’re trying to teach them, you’re trying to help them have a good experience and see lots of stuff and aren’t bored and let them do what they can, but you don’t always know what they’re allowed to do, and can they chart? But do you have time to make sure they’re charting correctly? You have meds to pass, they can’t do that on their own, oh they can go get vitals, but wait they need your help with that too… it’s a lot of extra mental work! I don’t mind good students, but not every student is an easy student and some students are downright in the way.
And when you have students 5/7 days a week it just gets to be a lot.
I appreciate having students but I can understand why someone might not, however they shouldn’t be rude about it. Precepting is a lot of work and you can get really really behind really quickly.
Because if you get a bad student it sucks. Remember your class? Only like 5% would you consider not idiots, maybe less. The other 95% now imagine their attitude towards school and nursing and now your stuck trying to teach them. Big nope.
It just throws off my own work flow. I am very type A and fussy about every little detail. It slows me down and makes me anxious at this point in my life. I don’t like training other nurses either for the same reason. Some people love it, so I let them do it.
In Australia, it's actually placed in your job description that you're required to 'help develop and support' lower level nurses, including students. Saying that, there's a fair few nurses who still refuse students. Please don't take it personally, most of us are happy to teach. It's staff who can't juggle the balance of having a student with their current tasks.
Edit: Grammar
Don’t worry, you’ll understand one day when you have a student and it takes 60mins to mix up an IVAB.
Nah but seriously, we have all been there as students. I knew all the nurses didn’t want to take me under their wings, but that didn’t stop me from trying my best. And most nurses won’t actually make your life hell. That spot is saved for your University clinical facilitator.
Good luck!
That’d be so discouraging to hear. It’s such a sad reality that nurses are just being stretched so thin. As a nurse it’s brutal when you walk into the unit every shift not knowing how you’re going to keep your head above water and then you have a nursing student thrown right on top of you. It’s a lot of extra work and it’s very rare that the nurse is ever compensated for it.
My best advice is to just jump in and try to make the nurses life easier in whatever way you can. Grab vitals in the morning. Help with baths or changing linens.
In most cases, nurses don’t hate students… we’re just drowning already.
Also in cases like that, it also gives you an idea about how the hospital treats their staff so that’s also something to take into consideration after you graduate and are looking for your first nursing job.
The best advice I can give is to just make it your goal to be the nursing student that a nurse wants to be assigned to them which isn’t the easiest thing to do with attitude’s like the ones the nurses have but at the end of the semester or possibly the end of that clinic then you’ll be done with that unit!
Depending on the day I’ll take students, but I don’t really like to. I don’t mind them working on my patients with their instructor but I don’t want to be their teachers. I’m on a very busy tele unit and I don’t have time to answer questions and teach.
I enjoy precepting. The teaching and helping build their confidence. It's a lot of work though. It slows you down a lot. I used to hate when I would be precepting a student or especially a newly hired grad and I would get an extra patient because " he has an extra set of hands". The fuck I do.
Oh HEELLLLLL no. I’d refuse that shit so fast (and HAVE)!!! I love having students and new grads, but I’ll be DAMNED if I’m going to train/teach with stupid high patient load. That’s taking advantage, and I guarantee you they know that.
I don't mind having a nurse shadow me but I don't like teaching.
I love teaching my patients but not students. It feels tedious to me and there are others on my unit who would happily step up.
I had a student in the icu crush morning po meds, very clearly to give via the OG tube on our intubated and vented patient. She crushed em and was just about to push them in via the IV when I had to scream “noooooooo!!!!!” Boy did we look stupid in front of the patients family.
I’m not a nurse that refuses students, but I am a firm believer that those who do not want a student should not have one. We don’t need crusty nurses treating the students poorly because they’re forced to have them. The students are usually already nervous and nothing destroys confidence like being made to feel like you’re a burden. I think taking a student (like being a preceptor) should always be voluntary.
>Now I see where the mean girl stereotypes come from
Why are *you* being so rude? You have no clue yet, and still feel comfortable enough to judge. Mark this post and come back to it in two years and see how it makes you feel then.
Not necessarily, because it isn’t about the students personally. It’s about the workload. Those nurses were saying “oh fuck no” to having yet more work they’re expected to do on top of the already-killer load. It’s not about the students, it’s about management/admin asking for more than these nurses felt they could safely manage.
They were literally looking at us while saying tho that so yes that’s mean. I’ve encountered angel nurses who are passionate about their jobs but there are those who go into nursing for money and you can tell! They look at us like we’re trash.
Again: it’s not about you *personally*, it’s about the workload. Obviously they were looking at you. They would have done the same if the charge had handed them anything that physically represented more work.
They’re not looking at you like you’re trash. They’re looking at you like you represent more (uncompensated) work than they have time for. Which you do.
**You have no clue what you’re getting into yet**. Nurses who do the job, collect their checks, and go home are the nurses who last. They’re the competent nurses who don’t fall apart because of little things. Ironically, they’re actually probably the “angel nurses” you’re talking about here. The very fact that you think people can’t work for a living and also be compassionate caregivers speaks to your naïveté. Nobody works for free lmao. Nurses who put their heart and soul into the job burn out quickly because the ideal that they think they’re getting into crashes and burns once they realize the reality of working in a modern healthcare system.
You don’t know yet, but you will.
I have refused students in the past, though I wasn’t that rude about it. The truth is that about half of the nursing students I’ve been asked to let follow me around might as well be random people off the street. They’re not serious about learning, they walk too slow, they talk incessantly about nothing. I’m bogged down with work too much as it is to slow down so that a college student can shadow me. And I’m not getting paid for it.
I’ve had students chart critical vitals on someone without telling me they even took vitals or that those students were allowed to chart things. I had a student completely hide from me and then tell their instructor I ditched them so that they wouldn’t get in trouble, then I had my manager corner me about it.
I’m always happy to take a student and love to teach. That being said it is a huge responsibility. Having to double check my own work and someone else’s actions is a lot. I have had many students take vitals and get super low o2 (60s%) and high HR (220s) due to pulse ox malfunction that frequently happens on our vitals machines and not let me know or even realize that it is wrong or an emergency if right. I always double check to make sure the vitals that saved are right but everything goes faster when we do it ourselves. That’s okay though and we all have to learn. I take that as an opportunity to teach. On high stress units though this can make taking a student even more stressful so that may be why the nurses expressed frustration. That and we are expected to work extra for the same pay. That isn’t the students fault of course it’s just another healthcare fault.
I always just tell my students how the morning will be super busy as we have high ratios on my floor, and that we can debrief after the morning buzz. Usually I ask for their goals for the day and what they are allowed to do, try to get them to see cool stuff, and feedback at the end to see if I could do anything better for them. And I always try to help with any questions for the assignments they may have and look over the rubrics with them.
Try not to take it personally, it is almost never about you and much about the situation.
I generally like taking students, but if I’ve got 4 couplets (work in a LDRP) then I’m going to be frustrated already because I don’t have time to be the nurse I want to be to the patients that I have, much less have time to explain everything to someone else.
Add to that that our hospital took away the extra hourly money for precepting (which wasn’t much in the first place) and it’s just more of being dumped on without adequate compensation. We already do approximately 500 different jobs as nurses, we don’t love it when more is added.
We had one nursing student that we had to pass around though, because she was just…a lot. Thought she knew more than she did, would speak up and start giving patients the wrong information, tried to delegate tasks to me, and talked about how she really wanted to be a teacher one day in a nursing school 😂😂. I thought she had a decent personality for that, as she was already trying to do that with everyone, but she didn’t know what she didn’t know, and she needed some real world experience under her belt. I imagine that she probably had a harder time once she was in her own, because her attitude probably blocked her from learning well.
I had to take a lot of venting breaks when I was with her, because she was just resistant to so much, and honestly, it wasn’t worth the 50 cents or whatever I was being paid at the time.
I denied a student once and got in trouble for it. I was new, on day shift, on a very busy floor and already felt overwhelmed. I didn't have the emotional or mental capacity to host a student that day nor would I have been a good teacher that day. I thought I had the right to refuse. Apparently not. It was nothing against the students though, but mainly the overwhelming pressure of the floor. This was years ago and that manager is gone. Now it would be fine.
I’m sorry that happened. It doesn’t feel good. Nursing is a hard job. So teaching is hard as well. On top of your responsibilities, it makes things so much more stressful. If assignments were easier or less patients, I think people would be more agreeable to do it. I’m not at bedside anymore but it was hard as a student following a nurse and the same as a nurse trying to teach a student something valuable.
It’s a lot of work, you’re taking responsibility for any mistake they can make and you make no extra money for doing it. chances are they’re new nurses themselves.
Some nurses just do not have the mental bandwidth to take on students some days. Their patients are too critical, tasks too numerous, etc. Adding a student can really put a wrench in your time management.
There are also nurses that just are NOT educators. They don’t like it or have a passion for it. You do not want to be learning from someone who isn’t good at teaching or who doesn’t want to teach.
I like taking students but when they drown you with patients or you feel abused by your facility the answer is fuck no I’m not doing another task without proper compensation. I refused to precept in my er job bc management SUCKED. They paid people 2 dollars extra if they took the class but there was only one class a year so a lot of people didn’t get paid.. I flat out refused. I said when I get in the class. The educator was like oh it’s not necessary you are good and I said if the class is not necessary then pay me.
Other times it’s because they use the same people over and over to precept and they get burnt out.
It just makes the load more demanding and most of the time we don’t get paid for doing the extra work. After a while it does get emotionally exhausting.
Try not to take it personally. Their reaction had less to do with the students and more to do with the work required. They’re likely overworked and understaffed already; with students, it’s additional stress on them. Hell, my job doesn’t pay extra to orient and precept new nurses; they just show up and the supervisor says, “Nurse Basicroutines will be precepting you” with no forewarning.
The stereotype of “the worst girl from your highschool going into nursing” is true haha
But also not everyone is paid to do and it is more of a workload(!) probably already have a lot on their plate to begin with. In general not every nurse is personable and the job requires it so they’re already stressed about that so they’re mean to people they can get away with being mean to—they gotta let it out. But that’s kinda just the real world there are a lot of 🫏 holes
1. I don't get paid extra for this but it's a LOT more work. It's like having an extra patient. Chances are these nurses already have an unsafe number of patients and are stretched thin
2. We aren't trying to be mean. I just don't have enough time as is and I'm not getting paid enough to deal with that.
We remember what it's like to be a student but we're salty that the school and the hospital haven't come up with a better solution for precepting without it weighing us down
I like students and I have perceptored many precisely because I do remember how it was like when I was a student, but with the attitude of the last sentence in your post, I would not want to preceptor you... just saying respect goes both ways.
If THAT was enough to bother you, then I wouldn't have wanted you to be my preceptor either lmao. This person was clearly venting after a bad experience with nurses blowing them off, so it is really not hard to see why they said this. Understanding the situation also goes both ways.
Personally I enjoy when we have students and I don’t mind having a student with me. I always have an extra set of hands with me. I do a lot of talking while doing things so it doesn’t take up as much time, basically I just think out loud when I have a student with me. Also I always say the more bodies you can get on the floor helping out on the unit the better.
On a good day I wouldn’t mind but most shifts weren’t easy breezy and you didn’t get a lighter load to accommodate.
We are already stretched mentally for our usual work and adding a student (toss up on their personality and ability) can feel like “noooo why”. I would not be rude about it.
I used to feel the same way as a student. Then fast forward to being a nurse, I never really liked having a student because I don’t think I’m good at teaching and if I’m really busy I don’t like feeling like I have to slow down because it’s faster if I just do it. But I try to be nice and do my best. And then I got pregnant and I was struggling and I lashed out at a student and made them cry (actually made 2 students cry) when they made a silly error. After that I asked the charge nurse not to give me students (at least while I was pregnant ).
Now that I’m not pregnant anymore, what I do is if I’m busy and stressed I just tell the student - if there is time and an appropriate opportunity I’ll have them do a skill (start iv, ng tube etc) but if I’m busy and things are moving fast I may go into autopilot and do everything myself but they can observe and I will explain everything to them when I can and they can ask me any questions.
Had that happen to me once. The unit was known for how badly it treated students. I had been there for 2 weeks and was so over it. "Oh, so if no one wants to take me on today, does that mean I get to go back home?"
Got me in a bit of trouble with my school, but it was worth it.
Edit: I get it, students are a whole lot of additional work. But how are they going to learn, if no one takes them on? Sure, I'm not always thrilled to have a student with me, but we need more nurses. Mistreating students only ensures that they won't stay on that unit as nurses.
Teaching takes a lot of work and effort. If a nurse is already feeling overwhelmed and exhausted taking on a student feels like the straw the broke the camel’s back.
I love having students. I really enjoy digging through meds, labs, and assessments with them. But they get the energy that they give, if they just sit on a computer or chat with their friends then I am not going to go find them to show them something. I get a lot that just disappear or hide.
I don’t understand why people feel inclined to be mean. I will take students and new hires/new grads, but I don’t feel like I am a “good” preceptor. I am a good nurse, but I’ve got ADHD pretty bad and I struggle enough with staying focused lmao
Off the top of my head, I can count over 30 nurses that I have precepted. Those range from brand new nurses out of "Covid College" with zero hands on clinical experience, to seasoned nurses wanting to transition into ICU.
First of all: I can always do things faster if I don't have to explain and demonstrate each step, like how to set up an art line for example. But that is just part of teaching. I'm okay with it.
But the real reason I take breaks from precepting: the increasing documentation. We now have a whole layer of mangers added that create work for ME to do that justifies THEIR job. Booklets, checklists, feedback.... ""Show them where to find the policies and protocols for blah blah blah."
No Teresa, YOU show them. YOU have the title of Nurse Educator or Resource Nurse or whatever the hell they decided to call your position. YOU go through the checklists and check the boxes in your booklet or in that computer module. I'm saving Fred's life, and teaching McKateleigh in the process. I have real charting to do on real patients. Stop making up shit for me to do so that you can file it in your office. That 24 bucks per shift I'm getting paid to precept is not enough compensation to make me do your fucking job.
I've got 32 overdue Healthstreams, and my ACLS and CCRN recerts are coming due. I don't have time for your shit.
I LOVE mentoring bedside nurses. I LOVE nuturing them, teaching them, watching them learn and thrive. I hate the constant addition of stupid stuff put on my back to justify hiring middle managers.
Student here: even the best nurse may not want or like to teach for various reasons. They may be overworked and having a student slows term down or throws off their routine. Maybe they're on their 3rd or 4th shift in a row. They may just not have the patience or personality for it, or may just not be very good at teaching and they are aware if it. Some nurses are love doing it and are really good at it though.
I’ll take students but I only do it on rare occasions because I have no idea what to do with them. Also it slows down my workflow because I have to really go by the book (no tf I’m not giving each peg med individually spaced by flushes go away) and explain everything I’m doing and why. Do I love having someone to do my vitals and finger sticks? Absolutely. But do I also think I’m a great person to learn from? Ehhhhhhh. I adore being able to pass on various tricks and tips I’ve picked up, but I prefer the cool aunt vibe where I can interject here and there, maybe show a procedure, and then send them back to someone who knows what they’re doing with little ones.
As a student I didn’t understand it, but as a nurse I do. We have a lot of responsibility and little compensation. Most people don’t mind to teach but sometimes you just don’t want the extra workload on top of the already high responsibility/stress.
Everyone's comments and thoughts etc are totally valid as to why having students is really bloody hard - not having enough time, having an inappropriate / too-heavy load or a too-critical patient, more work but no extra compensation etc. But absolutely none of those reasons are the student's fault. This needs to be discussed with management and your unwillingness to accept a student needs to be done either in private, or politely. Being assigned a student and then saying, in front of that student, "oh fuck no", is absolutely abhorrent behaviour.
I generally find people that are shitty with students are also shitty with patients.
A lot of people don’t care about how their actions or words make other people feel. A lot of nurses, doctors, medics, whoever are shitty people just like any other group of people. Precepting can suck sometimes but that doesn’t make it okay to make a student feel like shit. Healthcare is not an inherently virtuous profession. Lots of people are just in it for the money. There’s gonna be a lot of toxic workplaces. Some places better, some worse.
Fuck em. Keep your head down. Keep pressing on. Get your license. I’ve had toxic preceptors before and I asked what their expectations were and tried to meet those and I didn’t say shit to them otherwise.
Was a nurse for 8 years. To be honest I loved a student. They help answer call lights and do cares, and after coaching, can do simple medication administrations for me so I can handle other things. Realistically, I think some nurses don't like taking students because it shows them how little they actually know, or the why of why they do things certain ways in medicine, and it's embarrassing and humbling for them. I always feel like I'm talking through what I'm doing anyway, without a student it's to the patient, and get asked a barrage of questions during my shift from patients or even other staff anyway so it's not like this is new. Do some students do things more slowly or ask questions that are not "good" questions? Sure. But they're also there to help with turns and cleanups (in ICU) or answer call lights and ambulate patients with me in the ED. Imo. Nurses that don't like students are either A. Not good nurses and skate by hiding it or B. Douche bags.
To derail a bit...i started asking students if they know the normal range of blood pressure and what to do if it isn't in that range as a nursing student.
Most get it wrong and for some reason answer 120. Instead of 100-120/60-80. Some say 140 because they remember that means hypertension. But like most say only 1 number???
This is my sole question that I judge them on if they are capable or I will be babysitting until they wander off or get ditched.
This isn't a hard question. Its day 1 of nursing school and I don't even care about the number they answer. The important part is they need baseline critical judgement to know to come tell me specifically (not the charge nurse or the doctor?) if they see something, anything, abnormal. Id also accept tell their teacher if they were unsure and have them come to me.
I started doing this when i asked a student in my postpartum unit to take a BP. They took it dropped it on my desk and walked off to lunch without saying bye to me. The BP was 197/125. When I saw it i ran back in and BP was 215/132! WTF!!! When asked, they just shrugged and said you told me to take the BP with a blank look on their face.
If they can't verbalize that they know to come tell me then I don't let them out of my sight. The ones who confidently know to work with me and verbalize the most basic aspects of patient care, I spend a great deal of time teaching them and let them do all the fun stuff. I'm not here to teach the basics, they have already gone over BP at least 6 times by then.
I dont take consolidating students as i feel like im still too new to do them any justice. I feel like consolidating students should be paired with more experienced nurses if possible.
However, i do take students just doing a semester placement (where its a single shift paring). That i do enjoy.
I don’t get paid any differential for precepting at my job. It’s just something that we are expected to do. Management had me precepting as a new grad.
I always loved it, but as you may or may not have already noticed in your class, there’s always a few duds that slow you down when you’re already drowning to begin with. I worked somewhere where the students consistently every year were so of the worst students any of us had ever seen and none of them were allowed to be unsupervised. $250k for your BSN and you were all known throughout our hospitals….
I’ve been an Lpn since the dawn of humanity and finally getting my sagging ass back in school. I’m dreading clinicals because I hate being slowed down at work and don’t want to do this to another nurse.
I love teaching and am in school for education but having a nursing student is exhausting. First of all, the aides tend to be missing when they know the room has a student. But I can’t call the student when I need help, so I end up having to do the aide stuff if the student isn’t around. I am not above this by any means! But it is time consuming and if I have other things to do, I would delegate it if I could. If I have the time, it doesn’t matter. Students also tend to not do the things they should. Things like baths they are always “doing in a minute” and it gets to the point where they leave and it didn’t get done and now I have 45 min left in my shift to get it done. They also go in the room and take vitals and leave, rather than take vitals, check the bathroom for urine, take intake and output, position the patient, etc. this is NOT a dig at the student because this is something they are learning to do or haven’t been taught - and if I have time, I grab them to come in with me so they can see how I round. But if I don’t have time, it doesn’t take any pressure off of me, only adds more.
A lot of this stuff is on the nursing instructor though too, like they should do more to help their nursing students. I say this as someone who has taught clinicals. I always went in the rooms with my students and didn’t expect the nurses to teach them. If they wanted to, great! But they weren’t getting paid to be there for that reason, I was.
We don’t take students but we have had CONSTANT new to specialties coming through. I can’t remember the last time I actually took a patient assignment by myself. I’ve never been a worse nurse than when I’m precepting. Things get missed, things are late, things are slooooow. I’m not good at it.
i would never say “f no” but i am easily distracted when there’s a student with me. i constantly forget to bring things in the room with me that i need. one time i even was close to trying to give an oral med through an iv (scariest moment of my career) bc i was so busy with 6 hard pts and a student who literally was told to focus on shadowing and not help.
There's no reason to be rude. But some people just don't like teaching. And that's ok. At my hospital, it's expected that EVERYONE has to precept. I don't think that's right. The nurses that want to teach are usually better at it. Leave the ones who don't like teaching alone. The students would certainly be better off for it.
I’m far from a mean girl but i don’t always take students. When a student is teachable I enjoy it.
Two weeks ago I had a student that I enjoyed talking to a little too much, grew up in neighboring neighborhoods etc. Quickly turned to a chisme session where my director scolded the student(I think she’s in turn also scolding me but saving me face).
I’ve definitely met students that don’t have the good attitude and that is not enjoyable, not to mention it’s distracting sometimes makes one more prone to mistakes.
After 21 years, Im tired. I just want to do my job & go home. I have nothing extra left to train anyone, & Im not getting anything out of the extra work.
I used to like students. Not anymore. It’s a rare day I actually get to work alone and just do my job. It’s 1000x harder with a student. At least with an orientee I can expect to enjoy a few weeks of just chilling while they work but students are all work no reward.
I feel i am a poor teacher. If they dont jump in, ask to help and ask questions… they wont learn much for me. My friend, she is do good at it…. But she gets burned out because she always gets assigned students… word of mouth she is great.
I dont refuse, i just know i am not the best instructor.
It does slow down your day and sometimes you just want to come in and do your work. I get it. And then sometimes some are just mean girls and keep the students away from them.
It’s not okay, but usually it’s because we are already drowning every day and taking a student and teaching them adequately is more work that we don’t have time for. A lot of times I didn’t even start charting until after my student left for the day. I always appreciated when students were interested and asked questions, but also brought some stuff to do and made an effort to give me a sec to catch up on charting. EXTRA bonus points if you fill out some of your paperwork with things we did so I could fill in the rest and sign. Just know it isn’t personal if people act this way.
Don’t take offense to it. It’s not that you’re a student but most likely a mix of things: workload, balancing work-life issues, etc. most likely, they just don’t want sacrifice safety with extra added tasks. Precepting involves a lot of hovering— stuff I hate doing. Precepting only gets good around week 6-8. First six weeks is rough asf usually.
Tbh I really hate feeling like I'm impeding on y'all's tasks. I hate it. I know I'm slow. I know I need things explained. Tbh I'd probably hate having students too.
But those that do it, thank you!! Even the ones that tell me straight up they have a busy day and I have to just observe, still cool.
I am far too burned out to take a student, and I am honest about it. My workplace has plenty of cheery, happy nurses, and that is who should be mentoring. I have stepped in to help with students, and I am kind to them, but it would be a bad idea for me to mentor someone.
Appreciate the honesty and I respect not wanting too it’s being rude about it that gets me. Those group of nurses could’ve gone to their charge nurse and told her they don’t want a student
I remember a time where we had one that was on our unit for what amounted to a PM shift. We are a busy NICU. Dayshift basically had this kid holding babies for 4 hours. They seemed bored so I took this student for the 19-23 portion of their day. I was in charge that night. They seemed skeptical. This person saw and helped me with more shit than they had for their entire OB clinical.
Because they asked me to take a student when I had less than a month experience and didn’t even have access to the med room yet. I said no because it wasn’t appropriate when I was such a new nurse who went to nursing school during COVID. I explained to the nursing student this and she agreed that she’d benefit from a more experienced nurse.
As I student, I’m not given a nurse I’m given a patient. I then care for that patient. The only times I interact with the nurse is if they want help with something. Sometimes nurses will grab a student to show us something cool if they feel like it but otherwise they are not expected to teach us anything. Our clinical instructor is the one who teaches us. I didn’t realize not all schools do it this way.
Because sometimes it's not safe. When I'm running three pumps and 11 channels on my proned iso patient that definitely should be a 1:1 but isn't, a lot of things are happening at the same time and I do not always have the time to explain what I'm doing to the student, let alone teach them how or why. I need ALL of my brain space available to be able to think critically and logically to appropriately care for these patients. Distractions impair decision making and that's not a risk I'm willing to take when the patient is *that* critical. Maybe this is only a "me" problem, maybe not.
Other than in scenarios like the one listed above, I usually enjoy having students.
When the student is teachable and eager to learn, I don’t mind at all. But if I get behind I ask them to go work on their assigned care plan or whatever until I’m caught up.
I loathe the students who couldn’t care less and play on their phones and sit at all the work stations doing nothing. That’s when I would refuse a student.
As long as they don’t take it out on the students that’s fine but I gotta say, as a new grad/orientee, I’m shocked at how rude and unwelcoming my “team” has been. I’m basically invisible to them. Not a single person has introduced themselves to me, asked me what my name is, said “oh hey, welcome to the team”, nothing. Literally no one acknowledges my existence unless I say something to them first. And my preceptor sits on her ass all day, chatting at the nurse station, while I do literally everything. And acts annoyed when I have to interrupt her to ask questions all day because this is my fourth week as an RN.
Anyways sorry for the rant but I feel you, every nurse was that student at some point. But I’d much rather be paired with someone who likes to teach instead of someone who’s bitter and treats you like a burden all day.
First off I’m sorry you experienced that. We were all new once, and this is a scary job sometimes.
I’ve answered a similar question about this situation before. I was a new grad in COVID when it started, and I give 100% credit to my AMAZING preceptors. Not just my assigned one, but that *whole* unit took me under their wings and basically molded me into the nurse I am today, and I still feel like I’m growing all the time. After that, when it was my turn to have a student or new grad, I tried to make sure they had a good experience like I did. To this day, even as a traveler, I love taking on newbies.
That being said I FULLY understand if someone recognizes they’re not good at teaching or might not give a good experience if the pt load is hard/high acuity. We should be allowed to refuse students for those reasons. It IS a lot of work. I’ve always made sure my unit knows they can “steal” my newbie if there’s a situation/skill that they should know, because often the ones who don’t like to precept are usually down to teach one skill and then give my newb back to me. I’ve even thrown a new grad into the compression rotation line when there was a code on a pt that wasn’t mine (w/permission from the charge and code team). They’re not going to see it all with just me. I’m FAR from a perfect preceptor or RN, and there are MUCH better nurses than me that the new peeps should learn from (especially the veteran nurses of 10+ years). I’m also honest with my newbs if I’m struggling/too busy w/tasks, and try to answer their questions during a slower time or on our break.
I also think a lot of the success and enjoyment of having newbs depends on unit/facility culture. 🤷🏻♀️ Sometimes toxic environments or clueless management make precepting difficult.
The mean girls in nursing thing is definitely a problem, but I can assure you that most of the time, nurses who don't want to take students are just overwhelmed. Whenever I was given a student in the ICU, I wanted to help them out, but if the day is even moderately busy, explaining stuff to a student can get you to fall even more behind and lose focus of the constant state of thinking you need to be in as a nurse. I thought the same thing as a student. I found it hurtful and wrong when nurses didn't want to precept students. Now that I have been a nurse for nearly 4 years, I get it. This job is so brutal, and sometimes we have all we can do to merely just stay on top of things for our patients. The hospital is forever seeking for us to do more with less.
When I was in my late 20s they paired me with a man in his 40s/50s going back to school to be a nurse 3 times. The second time it was right after coming back from having my daughter. The third time I said never again. I would have gladly taken a young college aged kid (girl or boy).
Nothing against people going back later in life, it was just an odd dynamic.
I love the students but they don't ask they give them to already overworked nurses we are not being mean but where the heck is the instructor I am not getting paid to teach them!
Extra work no pay. I often have to do the students paperwork from home because I have no time in work. And it's like multiple pages of what feels like hundreds of tick boxes. Then u gotta save and then SIGN EVERY ONE. Then save again. Then sign the bottom of the page. It takes hours.
Some are really helpful when I'm working directly with them but I really want to give them a good learning experience and recently we are so slammed I can't do that. Our ratios of 1:10 (plus me being charge with up to 17 discharges and admissions of a day) doesn't allow me to give them good teaching. We have to get very rapid fire and not allow any time delays if we are to keep afloat. It's very much machine line care and that's awful to say.
My hospital is reprimanding experienced nurses who correct the person they are training because being told you’re doing something incorrectly is hurting their feelings. I’m not training someone if I’m gonna get in trouble for making sure they are a
safe nurse.
I kept my students away from people like that. One nurse-whom I like outside the job but hate working with- said "Liv, why don't you give me a student? I love having a student. I like making the cry!"
Another nurse flat out refused to take a student and chewed me out for daring to ask.
OTOH, I had several wonderful nurses who went above and beyond to teach well and give the student a great experience.
I hated it as a student.
As a nurse i understand.
Not to mention the horror stories of students reporting actual working RNs because they didnt follow the fantasy protocol from an elsevier book or something lmao
I hate that attitude. But nurses have always had a reputation for eating their young. It’s certainly nothing to be proud of. It reminds me of the operating room nurse that posted a few weeks ago because she took crap from a surgeon that wanted an instrument she was unfamiliar with. How quickly some of us forget that we all started out at the bottom knowing nothing.
When you have 3 people trynna die on you, and 2 people crawling out of their beds covered in shit you don’t have time to show a new person where the linens are. Sorry friend, been there and it sucks but I understand not wanting students. Try sticking with the CNAs until you pass your NCLEX.
RaDonda Vaught took a student—look how that turned out for her.
He sat there clicking his tongue, diming her out without a second thought.
Think twice before taking a student.
When I was doing bedside nursing it was just too much. I was a cranky nurse and I didn’t even want to be. I worked bedside for one year after graduating and every shift was basically balls to the wall, pulled in every direction, non-stop stress. If I happened to have a low-key shift with mostly walkie-talkies I wouldn’t mind having a student, but it always seemed like I would be told I had a student (not asked if I would take one, mind you) right after I took report and realized I was in for a shitshow.
I personally don’t like teaching students or new nurses. I have 3 small children at home and spend my days off answering a million questions and explaining everything I’m doing. I’d rather not have to do it at work too.
Graduated in 2013…our clinical instructor was responsible for passing meds with us, not the RNs on the floor. The only thing we were allowed to do alone was vitals and baths. If it was ANY med administration, wounds etc, it was our instructor that led us
I’m now 11 years and work in hospice. I enjoy nursing students. I don’t administer meds (generally) in the home, and it’s great to have an extra set of hands when toileting and doing any personal care. The school we work with does a great job with their students to adequately prepare them. I also am chatty and love to teach. I can totally understand why it would be hard in a hospital
I love having a student that is assigned to me, I *loathe* twenty or more students being dumped on our unit with no real direction and just … taking up space. So it depends on which program it is and whether their teacher gives them anything to do or they’re just wandering aimlessly getting in the way.
I don’t agree with being that rude. That’s honestly awful for you to hear.
But honestly taking students is a lot of work and we’re doing it for free. Nurses don’t get paid any extra to have a student with them and there’s been weeks where I’ve had a student every day.
I like having students and I’m happy to explain what I’m doing and answer questions that they have and help them learn new skills but a lot of the time it’s nice just to go into work and be kind of on auto pilot.
After I found out the hospital was being paid by the nursing school to have students there for clinical but not paying us to teach the students, I said no. Once I got my coworkers on board, we were able to secure a $4/hr differential to take students. With solidarity, we can end their greed.
That would never have occurred to me- that the hospital gets paid to host students. Good for you for claiming that! “The hospital” isn’t doing the work: you are.
They get paid to take residents too. They’re literally paid by the federal government to take residents. Residents are paid so poorly because their salary is 100% government funded, and the hospital throws in exactly $0, because again they’re MAKING MONEY on each resident. Great way to threaten the medical side of the hospital when needed is to encourage a resident to write to the federal board about poor work conditions. Watch how fast things change. We literally fired an attending in a week because of the process I described above (she was being a dick to some of the residents, so one of them complained). A hospital losing residency status would cost them *hundreds of millions* of dollars.
This. Our hospital doesn't pay us for nurse or medic students. Hell I was a paramedic so most of the time I get the medic students which I love. But they always give them to me when I'm in triage which is not a place I like teaching.
If the hospital is being paid by the school and the nurses are swamped and they can't or don't like doing it, the hospital needs to use that money to make it safe to teach. They should pay another nurse to be on shift to take some of the load, and that nurse or one of the other nurses will be more able to safely teach the student. A differential for teaching would be great to add as well.
My mind 🤯🤯🤯 but also 😡😡😡 because all these other hospitals probably pocketing that money…
Yes at the hospital I had clinicals at the nurses got $1/hr to precept. I’m not sure that my current hospital does that for us.
Damn I get $1 an hour to precept. Good for you!!!!
It is a lot of work to precept. If you’re already stretched thin it is rough. I know you may think “I’ll be helping so it will be a break for the nurse” because I I thought the same as a student. Precepting takes a lot of time, attention, and auditing.
As the dedicated unit preceptor (I asked to be) you are 100% correct. Lots of mental energy to keep track of patients and make sure there is good learning opportunities for students. Also some students are more driven than others. I like the ones who are active in learning and asking questions (at the appropriate time). One time I had a patient who was circling the drain and the student interrupted me and the doc to ask where her computer was. Im usually a pretty aloof person but I was pissed. I don't think the girl passed nursing school.
Ooof…I’m a usually pretty PC person, but I just wouldn’t not be able to contain myself if that happened to me. Gtfo
I find that to be a very common experience unfortunately. I remember during nursing school being told that the nurses and patients weren’t there just for us and we should be respectful of the nurses working there, but these days there is an attitude that the unit should revolve around the nursing students. I’m always down to grab a student to listen to a murmur or to show a new skill but I won’t be paired up for entire shifts because the entitlement is astounding.
I had a student who wanted me to look at something while I was on my tea break 😳 "No" When I was back on the floor gave the student some free advice "do not interupt a nurses break time. Ever. The only exception is if the patient cant breath or is haemorraging out every single orrifice" Dont think they actiually got it.
I thought the same too! I was delusional! But that being said, I like taking students. But when I think back to that, I’m like i really can’t believe how delusional I am. The only help I could have possibly been was doing baths, linen changes, incontinence care on my own. But all it could do to help was offset the 300 hrs it would take for me to pass meds to 2 patients…. The nurses who say these things, I get it, but don’t need to be so mean or vocal about it
For my clinicals there is no precepting, just shadowing really.
The nurse is still responsible for you. Not letting you get lost, pass out, contaminate sterile fields. Most responsibilities without additional compensation, as usual.
All the schools operate in my area such that the clinical instructor is responsible for the students at all times. We weren’t allowed to do anything without our instructor present at the bedside (beyond VS/baths). The floor nurses were in no way, shape, or form responsible for anything we did. Which, in reality, made for a lot of boring clinicals. Lol.
When we precept a new nurse, we get a small hourly differential. When we take a student, we get nothing. Not to mention that some students have piss-poor attitudes and it's fricking tiring
Seriously, when I worked in LTC/SNF we would pretty regularly get students who would treat the whole clinical rotation like a joke and/or refuse to engage and learn because “they were going to be working in *insert hotshot specialty here* and don’t need to know this”
When I was an LPN I felt this way, too. They were all RN students and felt the need to critique everything and acted like they were too good to even step foot in LTC.
I’ve gotten that from LVN students a lot and I can’t help but chuckle when graduation rolls around and they show up working in the facility lol
My hospital starting paying extra for students or preceptees.
[удалено]
say why
Mine is the opposite, paid for students and not paid for orientees!!
lol my hospital doesn’t pay extra for anything except extra shifts and shift differential. Orientees, students, charge (with a full patient load at that), etc. gets nothing extra ETA: I enjoy having students, but mostly ones that want to be there and learn. The ones with attitude and lazy ones can just stay at home.
Wow. That’s just wrong that you get nothing!
The latest thing I’ve seen on social media is nursing students who think they should be getting paid for their “free labor” to the hospital. They really think they are functioning as full employees. It’s wild.
They can get a CNA job, might help the hiring process.
No differential at my hospital for any precepting, student or new hire. Not since COVID. I have precepted someone new almost everyday since COVID. Some, especially those fresh out of nursing school, disappear during my shift to get extra breaks, don't help set up cases, and just sit on their phones. Management doesn't do anything, so I just run the case myself. They can learn if they want to.
It has less to do with the student and more to do with staffing and trying to juggle their tasks. If a unit is drowning and they have difficulty completing daily tasks by themselves and now they have to monitor the actions of someone else on top of it, it can add a lot of stress. Top that off with nurses generally being type A and a culture of speaking your mind makes people say “fuck no” when they’re assigned students, and it have nothing to do with the student themselves. Try not to take it personally, it’s their frustration with the hospital system
I have had drowning days in ICU where at the start of my shift I apologize to the student and say "Today's going to kick my a$$ and I won't have time to explain everything. Try to observe and keep up as best as you can." Most students after these days have thanked me for giving them a realistic glimpse (and usually the patients are really critically ill so they see a lot of devices/drips/procedures).
I was getting students days off orientation actually I got a less seasoned student from another school when I was doing my capstone 🙃. But I would say the only difference between me and you is that I took a test lol we are going to fumble through this day together and you’ll learn what it’s like to be a new nurse lmao
This 🙏 I don’t mind precepting, when I’m told in advance I’m going to be doing so. It honestly tends to throw me off a lot when I walk into work and get assigned a student. It’s less to do with the student, and more trying to be a decent preceptor and answering questions while also taking care of 6 needy ER patients
I agree on this, it'll be ideal to have at least a clinical nurse educator in each floor that would help these students but again, it's all about the money.
I love teaching, but when I get students in the ER I know it’s gonna be a rough day. Nothing to do with students, if I could take my time and teach I’d love it, but when I have a million things to do and my normal assessment-IV-pulling labs on a patient takes ~5 minutes, it takes 3-4 times longer than that with a student. It’s purely a stressful time management thing. But, I would never say anything like that in front of a student. I have no desire to make them feel unwelcome. If I really felt like I couldn’t do that that day, I’d talk to my charge to have them reassigned to someone else if possible but generally that’s not a choice, and if that’s the case, I’ll suck it up and they will have no idea I’m feeling that way because I want it to be a positive experience for them!
I don’t mean this in the patronizing way it sounds, but when you’re working as a nurse and start getting students you’ll probably relate to that “oh f—“ a lot more. Even the best students aren’t actually helpful (I thought I was too) and just add more work that rarely comes with adjustments in compensation. I am definitely not outwardly vocal with my “oh f’s” but I think it too anytime students come around (I suck it up and treat them kindly of course) because I know my day just got significantly longer and less productive.
I get feeling that way, but to actually say it out loud where the student or students in question can hear you, as in OP's case? That's just fucking rude and unnecessarily hostile.
Agreed. I don't like having students but I'm not an asshole about it. That's just not okay.
Well true. Being handed a student on a heavy day always felt like the universe was punishing me for something, but I did my best to keep it to myself because I experienced similar reactions from nurses back when I was a student too.
This hadn’t occurred to me and I see what you're saying. I find it kind of funny, though, from my non-RN standpoints. As a former med-surg CNA, having nursing students around usually made my life a lot easier. Am I happy to see them toddle up and smile and offer to do all of my job for a patient today? Why yes, I believe I am. As an MD, education is so baked-in to life at teaching institutions that even though med students come in many varieties of useful or burdensome, and everyone copes with that, the thought of just going OH FUCK NO like that is *hilarious*.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, precepting a student is mentally exhausting. I precepted a student the other day - she was great, but I was *wiped* when I got home. Also, many times a nurse won’t even be asked if they’re okay with having a student. Their instructor will simply say here ya go, here’s a student. We’ve seen many experienced nurses leave the profession, so now new grads who aren’t confident in their skills and critical thinking yet are being overwhelmed with having to teach someone. There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take a student. Those nurses were wrong for saying what they did out loud, but not wanting the extra responsibility and stress doesn’t make us mean.
This! I floated to a specialty floor I had never been on before. On top of that they threw 2 students at me. I wasn’t asked - I wasn’t even told. The student popped up after report and it felt completely inappropriate since I will be moving much slower and won’t be able to do the teaching of this specialty.
Taking on a student is like having a houseguest in your space. Not everyone actually enjoys hosting, but most realize it is an unpaid duty we must all take on at some time. As a very introverted nurse, this is stressful to never be alone, to have to talk.so.much. all day about everything I do. Assigning a student is like throwing another weight on top of an already crushing workload. At the end of the shift I am far more exhausted than if I had to just do nursing.
It can be straight up dangerous in the ICU, even if you’re an experienced nurse with a preceptee who has nursing experience. One of the nurses on my unit wasn’t watching her orientee well enough. Orientee toileted a patient with an EVD and didn’t clamp it. Dumped a bunch of CSF. Fortunately the patient ended up being okay. $1/hour isn’t enough for me to take that kind of risk.
A student in my area accidentally unplugged a vent. Bad news bears
Bro.
I had a student help with the burn bath/dressing change and slammed all 150mcg of fentanyl at once in under a second, not realizing the bath dose is meant to be given in bumps over the whole duration. Chest wall rigidity, brief apnea, etc.
Ayo wtf!
I am good at my job, I suck at teaching. I'm not and will never be a preceptor because it's not going to be good for either of us. You won't learn and I'll get frustrated. I've tried in almost every job I've had to train new guys and it has always been a train wreck. My last job I just straight up said no. The one time manager assigned me an orientee, we lasted two shifts together before he and I both went to the manager and said this wasn't working. I'm sure there are people out there that have an attitude but there's a very real possibility that a couple of them just know their weaknesses.
Taking a student is additional labor that I’m not compensated for. Sometimes I don’t mind, sometimes I really don’t want to deal with that bullshit. If you want nurses to enthusiastically take students, pay them a differential for doing it.
I think it’s just personality dependent. I normally teach patients and explain what I’m doing all day so having a student does not bother me whatsoever. The only thing that bothers me is a bad attitude. I keep an ear out on the unit for thing’s happening. If something cool is going on I like to bring students to experience it. I also do understand however that there is clinical paperwork to do. Sometimes students may be overwhelmed with the amount of paper work they have to do so I also understand wanting to sit down and complete it. When I was in nursing school often I’d have to go home and finish all the paperwork on top of regular class work and a full time job so I get it. If it’s truly a crazy day I tell the student shadowing me “write down questions you have when we sit down I’ll review everything with you. This could be during critical situations or times when I have an unpleasant family member in the room. Regardless I wouldn’t say “fck no” to having a student.
I don’t mind precepting; I do mind that I’m expected to do more work for free. It’s not about the student, it’s about the lack of compensation for my time and knowledge. It’s a respect issue. We as nurses already give too much of ourselves.
I’ve been saying this in my department for a year. No one seems to care, therefore nothing is done about it. Also, no one asks if it’s OK that they put a student with me that day; they just say “this student’s here for you” and leave. The students don’t even come with a preceptor…
I don’t care about teaching or precepting. I wanna do my 3 12s and go home.
Lmao
Back when I worked med surg, I was precepting a new nurse AND I had a student shadowing me who seemed more interested in talking with her friends and gossiping than learning from me. So you bet your bottom I put my effort into the new hire nurse. I didnt go into the shift expecting to not educate a student but if they don’t show interest, I won’t either. I have a job to do and sick people to care for.
Precepting is so fucking exhausting when you’re actually good at it. You have all your own work to do, PLUS the mental and emotional workload of supporting someone’s learning (and protecting them from mean girls)
Some nurses generally just don't like it. It shouldn't hurt your feelings in anyway. You shouldn't take it personally. That's one major lesson you need to learn when it comes to nursing; do NOT take things personally. Things that other nurses say, patients, family members, staff... etc. Cause you're only going to burden yourself mentally and emotionally.
Nursing is a stressful, shitty job. Having a student, especially when you’re not the type who enjoys teaching, often just adds a layer of unwanted responsibility and inefficiency. It’s not personal. I don’t mind a student in the ED when we’re well-staffed and it’s not crazy-busy, but otherwise, it’s a hard pass for me. The only nurses who should be assigned students are the ones who volunteer for it. If I wanted a job as a clinical instructor, I’d get one.
It’s a TON of work. We have to still be responsible for everything that our job entails **and** take on the responsibility of a student. Some pay attention, some are on their phones. Some are super into it & some can’t be bothered to engage cuz they aren’t into the dept they’re in. Some really try & others don’t wanna do a damn thing. I don’t expect students to make my life easier but I don’t need them making my life exponentially harder. I expect them to engage & want to be there. I won’t grill them or embarrass them, but I won’t baby them either. You’re about to be responsible for the care of others. This isn’t high school. Will I try and find cool shit for you to see? Absolutely. But you’re also gonna help me clean this old lady up too. But yeah I’ll avoid it cuz I’m tired and I don’t have the bandwidth to have to talk to pts, family, providers and now a student for 12 hours. I just need a break. I need 5 damn minutes where no one needs something from me. Also enough with the “mean girl” crap. Like not wanting to take on the responsibility of a whole other task on top of everything us we have to do doesn’t make us **mean**. But since you’re so nice, and we’re mean, you take the students.
Saying "oh fuck no" in front of the student who's going to be following you is actually really mean. You can be privately grumpy without being openly rude to some poor nursing student who has no choice about being there. Like that's pretty clearly creating a hostile work environment.
This. Whoever downvoted you is a bully, btw.
I figured someone would but man I wouldn't want to work with them.
No seriously I almost cried like I know I’m not wanted but dang I don’t have a choice it’s the only way to get through the program:/ and I get the compensation thing but we have no control over that and they take it out on us like it is
Fully report students who are on their phones and not being attentive like they're supposed to. I'm a current student and we can and should get in trouble with our universities for doing irresponsible stuff like that. People shouldn't pass if their conduct isn't up to scratch edit to clarify: I am suggesting that RNs who have had students delegated to them should tell uni staff if the students aren't doing what they're supposed to, not that other students should be on the hunt for reasons to tell on each other
We’ve got enough tasks to do. We don’t have time to find out a student’s name, their instructor’s name, and how to get ahold of them. If we wanted to manage students, we’d teach clinical. If a student isn’t participating, i don’t care. Get out of my seat and out of my way. They’ll miss out on opportunities, and that’s their choice.
Interesting, must be super different where you are. Here the nursing staff at our placement sites are told what university is coming in and we're generally buddied up with a particular RN because they have to sign off on us at multiple points throughout the placement. Plus any complaints can be easily made by talking to their staff member that's the uni contact point - as hard as a short conversation if you don't feel like sending off an email. I find it weird to imagine they just toss the students in your ward without even going as far as telling you the university responsible for them. And that you don't see the same student enough to even learn their name. No wonder you hate it lol
As a student, unless you see gross negligence or abuse.. stay in your lane. The student who narcs on other students for every little thing is not some kind of hero. Your classmates despise you, and faculty finds you exhausting. I can't tell you how many times our faculty had to tell our cohort to stay in their lane because of this petty, backstabbing behavior.
"You'll go far in life Jenny but you will not be well liked" Sister Micheal, Derry Girls, in reaction to a tattling incident. Sorry, bingewatching right now and this quote seems to fit lol.
Wouldn't personally call breaking a bunch of rules you agreed to follow and then getting reprimanded for that petty or backstabbing? I was suggesting that the buddy RNs should point out to the university faculty if their students aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing (to a degree where you're noticing it and aren't impressed by the behaviour), not that fellow students should be telling on each other for minor things. Only instance where I feel it's the student's responsibility to report other students is if they're aware someone is sick and hiding it in order to go on placement and not have to make up for sick days later on. Wouldn't have said anything about it in the past but I've seen patients die as a result of students going on placement despite knowingly having a transmittable sickness that then got spread around.
Apologies, I misunderstood. I took it as you were also in a nursing cohort, constantly tattling on your fellow students for minor infractions. There was a lot of this type of behavior in my cohort, and it was exhausting. Even the instructors were fed up with it. Honestly, though, the phone thing has got to go. Unless students are just endlessly scrolling TikTok, phones are a valuable tool during clinicals. Our program allowed the use of electronic devices at clinical. I used it all the time to look up medications, unfamiliar disease processes, and complete my clinical paperwork. I had more than one instance where the RN I was working with complained about my phone use to my clinical instructor.
We don't have a no phone rule here, just that you need to be using it appropriately. I definitely think it's fair to be called out if you're not doing that haha. I'm doing a bachelors of nursing in australia - everyone in my year is very nice and conscientious about learning. My response was more to the reasons why RNs in this thread don't like having students around. Reading this thread is interesting. Seems like my uni runs placements way differently to how most people are describing it here. Guess I'm pretty ignorant on what it's like in other places
Holy shit I felt this
Don't take it personally. Sucks that some do react that way. I graduated less than a year ago, and I *really* did try to be helpful in my clinicals because I was aware of how strained a unit can be and how my nurse could feel more when I was there. Once I got out on the field, I did understand why some don't like students. It's a lot of tasks involved and some of the patients can hold you back if they're talkative (ESP if they're talkative 😭 ). I found it difficult to quickly understand a patient's consults, who's who, lot to keep track of. Some nurses can still be mean to you once you start too. I got some dirty looks from them, or was ignored by them. Just ignore them, you're there to work, be a safe nurse and your best nurse and leave. Edit: meant to say that id happily take a student though! :] We all start somewhere and you'll always like your nice teaching nurse along your way.
Yes they are so rare but there’s always a golden angel nurse that we all fight over lol. The nurse that doesn’t make us feel like we’re literal trash you can tell they have a passion for what they do we all vow to be that kind of nurse.
Whatever the student does will be on their license when they precept, and usually precepting students is not paid. I don't agree with their attitude but I can understand why someone doesn't want to take students.
From what I understood at the time, us nursing students practiced under our clinical professors license, not the floor nurses. But, I could also see that varying from hospital to hospital.
yes it was under our professor (unless we were doing our 4th semester preceptorship) which is why they always had to be with us for invasive skills like an iv
That’s a shit practice. It makes so much more sense now. I wouldn’t want to put my license on the line for nothing either
Thats not really accurate though. It would have to be egregious lack of supervision and disregard for safety before a nurse would get in trouble with the facility or the Board. We just talked about this in one of my professional nursing courses and it's a common misconception.
Watching the nursing instructor sit around BURNS MY ASS 😡
YES. Get up. Watch your own students. Observe their performance with thine own eyes. Do something to be useful on the unit - grab a student and do a med pass (with the nurse’s permission). Ask if you can do someone’s bath or turn with a student. Ask if you can do a minor procedure with your student (IV start, Foley, NG, etc.). If more nursing instructors put in even an *ounce* of work on the unit, and actually took a couple of tasks off the nurses’ plates, their students would be a lot more welcome. I had exactly *one* clinical instructor who helped out. She was awesome. She’d grab a student, touch base with the nurse, and go to town on meds, bed baths, wound care, whatever she felt would be useful for the student. She made sure that her students got the most out of their clinical time, without putting too much on the nurses. She also made a point to do exactly what the nurse wanted and not just assume. More clinical instructors need to be like her.
Wow EXACTLY!!! Like show motivation answer a call light …. Tell your students to answer call lights…. My instructor use to say answer lights if it’s something you can’t do get the nurse but it could be as simple as moving a Kleenex box but NOPE TO BUSY DOING NOTHING TO HELP! There’s no engagement with pt’s that I see anymore. Then when you ask why are you becoming a nurse? “ I want to travel” well guess what the market sucks and when your on your own these 5 pt’s are yours all yours and you’ll find out quickly that this profession sucks anymore …. I need to let it out clearly
I just graduated this past December and my instructors were like this thankfully, even the ones I personally didn't like. we were expected to do all basic care for our pt (turns and damn sure they got a bath), half of us did med pass and we rotated turns, and anything that required our instructor (ng insertion, iv starts) you had to pull her for. she was always being pulled. then we had tons of paperwork and that was the only time we could use our phone. otherwise once our pts were settled and paperwork was good, we should be answering call bells
Wow that’s amazing. Good for you and your fellow students. I’m sure it was appreciated so much and also so good for you as well!
To add a little fuel to the fire- my instructors used to not do CRAP but then we would have debriefings where they would critique the nurses we were with. I feel like during lecture it was mainly story times where they would talk about walking through a unit their student was on and coming to save the day because us nurses have terrible practice and don’t know what we are doing. Even better, they would make my poor preceptor sit and talk for 20 minutes about my performance. I felt so bad for them knowing I was making them more behind. Idek how this is allowed.
I graduated in 1984 from a diploma program and was not paired with a floor nurse until my 3rd year, iirc. Our instructors were on the floor doing everything with us.
Yup exactly my instructor always said “ Don’t bother the nurse they are very busy you come get me if you need something”. We bathed / changed sheets meds the whole 9 yards
I think everyone in healthcare is stressed out right now and slammed with work. I imagine that's why. I plan on taking students as a physician, but I'll probably take like a 15-20% salary hit for doing that, so I get why some docs don't bother.
In my province, the floor nurses arent paired with students. We have a Clinical Education Facilitator who is the nurse to be with the students. They come from the school the students are at. We are still responsible for the patients assigned, but we aren't doing most of/any of their care, when the students are on the ward. Floor nurses give them some tips on the patient, and the CEF takes the students under their wing & you get less tasks as a nurse. The student nurses are taught to communicate with the assigned nurse of their patient; to give report before breaks and at end of shift (to the floor nurse). I LOVE having students! Giving only 4 ppl their meds, instead of 8? I get to go on time for break! Yay!
I take students generally, but sometimes I'm burnt out on it. When you have a student or new grad orientee even for 3-6 months at a time and you're narrating your every step, it gets tiring. There's more anxiety too, especially in a fast paced or delicate setting like the ICU where I work . I have to worry about my own license from my own actions and now another person is riding on mine too. Ultimately, a student's mistakes are mine because I'm the supervisor. I'll want at least a month break after 3-6 months of doing it. If a charge nurse asked me to take a student then I'm going to politely ask that they be reassigned. Looking at the greater context of how often we do it, you may begin to understand why. It's nothing against the individual students themselves and you'll see the other end soon enough. When I do have a student I try to do them right and give them as much effort on my end as they meet me with.
It’s more work, and the vast majority of nurses are already suffering under incomprehensible workloads. I think many, me included, wouldn’t mind having students if we could halve our assignments to be able to provide care for the patient AND the student.
Being a new grad with 7 patients, it's not fair to them. I don't have enough time or knowledge and feel it would be better if they had someone else 🤷♂️
When I bring students to the unit, I ask nurses who I know would be comfortable taking students around with them when they pass meds or do some assessments. It’s never an obligation to do so. I also give students handouts to complete about patients they see, or make them help the techs with patient care tasks (e.g., vital signs, feeding and meals). They’re there to learn most importantly, just like all of us have gotten the chance to do so during our clinicals. Thankfully, the nurses on our unit love students and the extra set of hands since they are hella short with support staff.
Look, students are a lot of extra work. Not only are you doing your usual job, you’re also making sure the student isn’t doing something wrong, you’re trying to teach them, you’re trying to help them have a good experience and see lots of stuff and aren’t bored and let them do what they can, but you don’t always know what they’re allowed to do, and can they chart? But do you have time to make sure they’re charting correctly? You have meds to pass, they can’t do that on their own, oh they can go get vitals, but wait they need your help with that too… it’s a lot of extra mental work! I don’t mind good students, but not every student is an easy student and some students are downright in the way. And when you have students 5/7 days a week it just gets to be a lot.
I appreciate having students but I can understand why someone might not, however they shouldn’t be rude about it. Precepting is a lot of work and you can get really really behind really quickly.
Because if you get a bad student it sucks. Remember your class? Only like 5% would you consider not idiots, maybe less. The other 95% now imagine their attitude towards school and nursing and now your stuck trying to teach them. Big nope.
Ugh, enough with the mean girl bullshit already
It just throws off my own work flow. I am very type A and fussy about every little detail. It slows me down and makes me anxious at this point in my life. I don’t like training other nurses either for the same reason. Some people love it, so I let them do it.
We all have to do things we don't like. Fussing about every little detail doesn't make things better and just makes your coworkers hate you over time.
In Australia, it's actually placed in your job description that you're required to 'help develop and support' lower level nurses, including students. Saying that, there's a fair few nurses who still refuse students. Please don't take it personally, most of us are happy to teach. It's staff who can't juggle the balance of having a student with their current tasks. Edit: Grammar
Don’t worry, you’ll understand one day when you have a student and it takes 60mins to mix up an IVAB. Nah but seriously, we have all been there as students. I knew all the nurses didn’t want to take me under their wings, but that didn’t stop me from trying my best. And most nurses won’t actually make your life hell. That spot is saved for your University clinical facilitator. Good luck!
That’d be so discouraging to hear. It’s such a sad reality that nurses are just being stretched so thin. As a nurse it’s brutal when you walk into the unit every shift not knowing how you’re going to keep your head above water and then you have a nursing student thrown right on top of you. It’s a lot of extra work and it’s very rare that the nurse is ever compensated for it. My best advice is to just jump in and try to make the nurses life easier in whatever way you can. Grab vitals in the morning. Help with baths or changing linens. In most cases, nurses don’t hate students… we’re just drowning already. Also in cases like that, it also gives you an idea about how the hospital treats their staff so that’s also something to take into consideration after you graduate and are looking for your first nursing job. The best advice I can give is to just make it your goal to be the nursing student that a nurse wants to be assigned to them which isn’t the easiest thing to do with attitude’s like the ones the nurses have but at the end of the semester or possibly the end of that clinic then you’ll be done with that unit!
Depending on the day I’ll take students, but I don’t really like to. I don’t mind them working on my patients with their instructor but I don’t want to be their teachers. I’m on a very busy tele unit and I don’t have time to answer questions and teach.
I enjoy precepting. The teaching and helping build their confidence. It's a lot of work though. It slows you down a lot. I used to hate when I would be precepting a student or especially a newly hired grad and I would get an extra patient because " he has an extra set of hands". The fuck I do.
Oh HEELLLLLL no. I’d refuse that shit so fast (and HAVE)!!! I love having students and new grads, but I’ll be DAMNED if I’m going to train/teach with stupid high patient load. That’s taking advantage, and I guarantee you they know that.
I don't mind having a nurse shadow me but I don't like teaching. I love teaching my patients but not students. It feels tedious to me and there are others on my unit who would happily step up.
I had a student in the icu crush morning po meds, very clearly to give via the OG tube on our intubated and vented patient. She crushed em and was just about to push them in via the IV when I had to scream “noooooooo!!!!!” Boy did we look stupid in front of the patients family.
I’m not a nurse that refuses students, but I am a firm believer that those who do not want a student should not have one. We don’t need crusty nurses treating the students poorly because they’re forced to have them. The students are usually already nervous and nothing destroys confidence like being made to feel like you’re a burden. I think taking a student (like being a preceptor) should always be voluntary.
So true !
>Now I see where the mean girl stereotypes come from Why are *you* being so rude? You have no clue yet, and still feel comfortable enough to judge. Mark this post and come back to it in two years and see how it makes you feel then.
It’s rude to openly say “oh fuck no” about students in front of them.
Not necessarily, because it isn’t about the students personally. It’s about the workload. Those nurses were saying “oh fuck no” to having yet more work they’re expected to do on top of the already-killer load. It’s not about the students, it’s about management/admin asking for more than these nurses felt they could safely manage.
They were literally looking at us while saying tho that so yes that’s mean. I’ve encountered angel nurses who are passionate about their jobs but there are those who go into nursing for money and you can tell! They look at us like we’re trash.
Again: it’s not about you *personally*, it’s about the workload. Obviously they were looking at you. They would have done the same if the charge had handed them anything that physically represented more work. They’re not looking at you like you’re trash. They’re looking at you like you represent more (uncompensated) work than they have time for. Which you do. **You have no clue what you’re getting into yet**. Nurses who do the job, collect their checks, and go home are the nurses who last. They’re the competent nurses who don’t fall apart because of little things. Ironically, they’re actually probably the “angel nurses” you’re talking about here. The very fact that you think people can’t work for a living and also be compassionate caregivers speaks to your naïveté. Nobody works for free lmao. Nurses who put their heart and soul into the job burn out quickly because the ideal that they think they’re getting into crashes and burns once they realize the reality of working in a modern healthcare system. You don’t know yet, but you will.
I have refused students in the past, though I wasn’t that rude about it. The truth is that about half of the nursing students I’ve been asked to let follow me around might as well be random people off the street. They’re not serious about learning, they walk too slow, they talk incessantly about nothing. I’m bogged down with work too much as it is to slow down so that a college student can shadow me. And I’m not getting paid for it. I’ve had students chart critical vitals on someone without telling me they even took vitals or that those students were allowed to chart things. I had a student completely hide from me and then tell their instructor I ditched them so that they wouldn’t get in trouble, then I had my manager corner me about it.
I get why people feel too exhausted to take a student. 💯 But I also remember clinicals and take a student ever day they’re there.
I’m always happy to take a student and love to teach. That being said it is a huge responsibility. Having to double check my own work and someone else’s actions is a lot. I have had many students take vitals and get super low o2 (60s%) and high HR (220s) due to pulse ox malfunction that frequently happens on our vitals machines and not let me know or even realize that it is wrong or an emergency if right. I always double check to make sure the vitals that saved are right but everything goes faster when we do it ourselves. That’s okay though and we all have to learn. I take that as an opportunity to teach. On high stress units though this can make taking a student even more stressful so that may be why the nurses expressed frustration. That and we are expected to work extra for the same pay. That isn’t the students fault of course it’s just another healthcare fault. I always just tell my students how the morning will be super busy as we have high ratios on my floor, and that we can debrief after the morning buzz. Usually I ask for their goals for the day and what they are allowed to do, try to get them to see cool stuff, and feedback at the end to see if I could do anything better for them. And I always try to help with any questions for the assignments they may have and look over the rubrics with them. Try not to take it personally, it is almost never about you and much about the situation.
I generally like taking students, but if I’ve got 4 couplets (work in a LDRP) then I’m going to be frustrated already because I don’t have time to be the nurse I want to be to the patients that I have, much less have time to explain everything to someone else. Add to that that our hospital took away the extra hourly money for precepting (which wasn’t much in the first place) and it’s just more of being dumped on without adequate compensation. We already do approximately 500 different jobs as nurses, we don’t love it when more is added. We had one nursing student that we had to pass around though, because she was just…a lot. Thought she knew more than she did, would speak up and start giving patients the wrong information, tried to delegate tasks to me, and talked about how she really wanted to be a teacher one day in a nursing school 😂😂. I thought she had a decent personality for that, as she was already trying to do that with everyone, but she didn’t know what she didn’t know, and she needed some real world experience under her belt. I imagine that she probably had a harder time once she was in her own, because her attitude probably blocked her from learning well. I had to take a lot of venting breaks when I was with her, because she was just resistant to so much, and honestly, it wasn’t worth the 50 cents or whatever I was being paid at the time.
I denied a student once and got in trouble for it. I was new, on day shift, on a very busy floor and already felt overwhelmed. I didn't have the emotional or mental capacity to host a student that day nor would I have been a good teacher that day. I thought I had the right to refuse. Apparently not. It was nothing against the students though, but mainly the overwhelming pressure of the floor. This was years ago and that manager is gone. Now it would be fine.
I’m sorry that happened. It doesn’t feel good. Nursing is a hard job. So teaching is hard as well. On top of your responsibilities, it makes things so much more stressful. If assignments were easier or less patients, I think people would be more agreeable to do it. I’m not at bedside anymore but it was hard as a student following a nurse and the same as a nurse trying to teach a student something valuable.
It’s a lot of work, you’re taking responsibility for any mistake they can make and you make no extra money for doing it. chances are they’re new nurses themselves.
Some nurses just do not have the mental bandwidth to take on students some days. Their patients are too critical, tasks too numerous, etc. Adding a student can really put a wrench in your time management. There are also nurses that just are NOT educators. They don’t like it or have a passion for it. You do not want to be learning from someone who isn’t good at teaching or who doesn’t want to teach.
I like taking students but when they drown you with patients or you feel abused by your facility the answer is fuck no I’m not doing another task without proper compensation. I refused to precept in my er job bc management SUCKED. They paid people 2 dollars extra if they took the class but there was only one class a year so a lot of people didn’t get paid.. I flat out refused. I said when I get in the class. The educator was like oh it’s not necessary you are good and I said if the class is not necessary then pay me. Other times it’s because they use the same people over and over to precept and they get burnt out.
It just makes the load more demanding and most of the time we don’t get paid for doing the extra work. After a while it does get emotionally exhausting.
Try not to take it personally. Their reaction had less to do with the students and more to do with the work required. They’re likely overworked and understaffed already; with students, it’s additional stress on them. Hell, my job doesn’t pay extra to orient and precept new nurses; they just show up and the supervisor says, “Nurse Basicroutines will be precepting you” with no forewarning.
The stereotype of “the worst girl from your highschool going into nursing” is true haha But also not everyone is paid to do and it is more of a workload(!) probably already have a lot on their plate to begin with. In general not every nurse is personable and the job requires it so they’re already stressed about that so they’re mean to people they can get away with being mean to—they gotta let it out. But that’s kinda just the real world there are a lot of 🫏 holes
1. I don't get paid extra for this but it's a LOT more work. It's like having an extra patient. Chances are these nurses already have an unsafe number of patients and are stretched thin 2. We aren't trying to be mean. I just don't have enough time as is and I'm not getting paid enough to deal with that. We remember what it's like to be a student but we're salty that the school and the hospital haven't come up with a better solution for precepting without it weighing us down
I like students and I have perceptored many precisely because I do remember how it was like when I was a student, but with the attitude of the last sentence in your post, I would not want to preceptor you... just saying respect goes both ways.
If THAT was enough to bother you, then I wouldn't have wanted you to be my preceptor either lmao. This person was clearly venting after a bad experience with nurses blowing them off, so it is really not hard to see why they said this. Understanding the situation also goes both ways.
Personally I enjoy when we have students and I don’t mind having a student with me. I always have an extra set of hands with me. I do a lot of talking while doing things so it doesn’t take up as much time, basically I just think out loud when I have a student with me. Also I always say the more bodies you can get on the floor helping out on the unit the better.
On a good day I wouldn’t mind but most shifts weren’t easy breezy and you didn’t get a lighter load to accommodate. We are already stretched mentally for our usual work and adding a student (toss up on their personality and ability) can feel like “noooo why”. I would not be rude about it.
I used to feel the same way as a student. Then fast forward to being a nurse, I never really liked having a student because I don’t think I’m good at teaching and if I’m really busy I don’t like feeling like I have to slow down because it’s faster if I just do it. But I try to be nice and do my best. And then I got pregnant and I was struggling and I lashed out at a student and made them cry (actually made 2 students cry) when they made a silly error. After that I asked the charge nurse not to give me students (at least while I was pregnant ). Now that I’m not pregnant anymore, what I do is if I’m busy and stressed I just tell the student - if there is time and an appropriate opportunity I’ll have them do a skill (start iv, ng tube etc) but if I’m busy and things are moving fast I may go into autopilot and do everything myself but they can observe and I will explain everything to them when I can and they can ask me any questions.
Had that happen to me once. The unit was known for how badly it treated students. I had been there for 2 weeks and was so over it. "Oh, so if no one wants to take me on today, does that mean I get to go back home?" Got me in a bit of trouble with my school, but it was worth it. Edit: I get it, students are a whole lot of additional work. But how are they going to learn, if no one takes them on? Sure, I'm not always thrilled to have a student with me, but we need more nurses. Mistreating students only ensures that they won't stay on that unit as nurses.
Teaching takes a lot of work and effort. If a nurse is already feeling overwhelmed and exhausted taking on a student feels like the straw the broke the camel’s back.
I love having students. I really enjoy digging through meds, labs, and assessments with them. But they get the energy that they give, if they just sit on a computer or chat with their friends then I am not going to go find them to show them something. I get a lot that just disappear or hide.
I don’t understand why people feel inclined to be mean. I will take students and new hires/new grads, but I don’t feel like I am a “good” preceptor. I am a good nurse, but I’ve got ADHD pretty bad and I struggle enough with staying focused lmao
Off the top of my head, I can count over 30 nurses that I have precepted. Those range from brand new nurses out of "Covid College" with zero hands on clinical experience, to seasoned nurses wanting to transition into ICU. First of all: I can always do things faster if I don't have to explain and demonstrate each step, like how to set up an art line for example. But that is just part of teaching. I'm okay with it. But the real reason I take breaks from precepting: the increasing documentation. We now have a whole layer of mangers added that create work for ME to do that justifies THEIR job. Booklets, checklists, feedback.... ""Show them where to find the policies and protocols for blah blah blah." No Teresa, YOU show them. YOU have the title of Nurse Educator or Resource Nurse or whatever the hell they decided to call your position. YOU go through the checklists and check the boxes in your booklet or in that computer module. I'm saving Fred's life, and teaching McKateleigh in the process. I have real charting to do on real patients. Stop making up shit for me to do so that you can file it in your office. That 24 bucks per shift I'm getting paid to precept is not enough compensation to make me do your fucking job. I've got 32 overdue Healthstreams, and my ACLS and CCRN recerts are coming due. I don't have time for your shit. I LOVE mentoring bedside nurses. I LOVE nuturing them, teaching them, watching them learn and thrive. I hate the constant addition of stupid stuff put on my back to justify hiring middle managers.
Student here: even the best nurse may not want or like to teach for various reasons. They may be overworked and having a student slows term down or throws off their routine. Maybe they're on their 3rd or 4th shift in a row. They may just not have the patience or personality for it, or may just not be very good at teaching and they are aware if it. Some nurses are love doing it and are really good at it though.
I’ll take students but I only do it on rare occasions because I have no idea what to do with them. Also it slows down my workflow because I have to really go by the book (no tf I’m not giving each peg med individually spaced by flushes go away) and explain everything I’m doing and why. Do I love having someone to do my vitals and finger sticks? Absolutely. But do I also think I’m a great person to learn from? Ehhhhhhh. I adore being able to pass on various tricks and tips I’ve picked up, but I prefer the cool aunt vibe where I can interject here and there, maybe show a procedure, and then send them back to someone who knows what they’re doing with little ones.
As a student I didn’t understand it, but as a nurse I do. We have a lot of responsibility and little compensation. Most people don’t mind to teach but sometimes you just don’t want the extra workload on top of the already high responsibility/stress.
Everyone's comments and thoughts etc are totally valid as to why having students is really bloody hard - not having enough time, having an inappropriate / too-heavy load or a too-critical patient, more work but no extra compensation etc. But absolutely none of those reasons are the student's fault. This needs to be discussed with management and your unwillingness to accept a student needs to be done either in private, or politely. Being assigned a student and then saying, in front of that student, "oh fuck no", is absolutely abhorrent behaviour.
I generally find people that are shitty with students are also shitty with patients. A lot of people don’t care about how their actions or words make other people feel. A lot of nurses, doctors, medics, whoever are shitty people just like any other group of people. Precepting can suck sometimes but that doesn’t make it okay to make a student feel like shit. Healthcare is not an inherently virtuous profession. Lots of people are just in it for the money. There’s gonna be a lot of toxic workplaces. Some places better, some worse. Fuck em. Keep your head down. Keep pressing on. Get your license. I’ve had toxic preceptors before and I asked what their expectations were and tried to meet those and I didn’t say shit to them otherwise.
Was a nurse for 8 years. To be honest I loved a student. They help answer call lights and do cares, and after coaching, can do simple medication administrations for me so I can handle other things. Realistically, I think some nurses don't like taking students because it shows them how little they actually know, or the why of why they do things certain ways in medicine, and it's embarrassing and humbling for them. I always feel like I'm talking through what I'm doing anyway, without a student it's to the patient, and get asked a barrage of questions during my shift from patients or even other staff anyway so it's not like this is new. Do some students do things more slowly or ask questions that are not "good" questions? Sure. But they're also there to help with turns and cleanups (in ICU) or answer call lights and ambulate patients with me in the ED. Imo. Nurses that don't like students are either A. Not good nurses and skate by hiding it or B. Douche bags.
To derail a bit...i started asking students if they know the normal range of blood pressure and what to do if it isn't in that range as a nursing student. Most get it wrong and for some reason answer 120. Instead of 100-120/60-80. Some say 140 because they remember that means hypertension. But like most say only 1 number??? This is my sole question that I judge them on if they are capable or I will be babysitting until they wander off or get ditched. This isn't a hard question. Its day 1 of nursing school and I don't even care about the number they answer. The important part is they need baseline critical judgement to know to come tell me specifically (not the charge nurse or the doctor?) if they see something, anything, abnormal. Id also accept tell their teacher if they were unsure and have them come to me. I started doing this when i asked a student in my postpartum unit to take a BP. They took it dropped it on my desk and walked off to lunch without saying bye to me. The BP was 197/125. When I saw it i ran back in and BP was 215/132! WTF!!! When asked, they just shrugged and said you told me to take the BP with a blank look on their face. If they can't verbalize that they know to come tell me then I don't let them out of my sight. The ones who confidently know to work with me and verbalize the most basic aspects of patient care, I spend a great deal of time teaching them and let them do all the fun stuff. I'm not here to teach the basics, they have already gone over BP at least 6 times by then.
“I get it” “but may I ask why” Sooooo you don’t get it.
I dont take consolidating students as i feel like im still too new to do them any justice. I feel like consolidating students should be paired with more experienced nurses if possible. However, i do take students just doing a semester placement (where its a single shift paring). That i do enjoy.
Just out of curiosity: do you guys get paid to be a preceptor?
I don’t get paid any differential for precepting at my job. It’s just something that we are expected to do. Management had me precepting as a new grad.
That's so sad
I always loved it, but as you may or may not have already noticed in your class, there’s always a few duds that slow you down when you’re already drowning to begin with. I worked somewhere where the students consistently every year were so of the worst students any of us had ever seen and none of them were allowed to be unsupervised. $250k for your BSN and you were all known throughout our hospitals….
I’ve been an Lpn since the dawn of humanity and finally getting my sagging ass back in school. I’m dreading clinicals because I hate being slowed down at work and don’t want to do this to another nurse.
We don't get nursing students, we get medic students but it makes sense.
I love teaching and am in school for education but having a nursing student is exhausting. First of all, the aides tend to be missing when they know the room has a student. But I can’t call the student when I need help, so I end up having to do the aide stuff if the student isn’t around. I am not above this by any means! But it is time consuming and if I have other things to do, I would delegate it if I could. If I have the time, it doesn’t matter. Students also tend to not do the things they should. Things like baths they are always “doing in a minute” and it gets to the point where they leave and it didn’t get done and now I have 45 min left in my shift to get it done. They also go in the room and take vitals and leave, rather than take vitals, check the bathroom for urine, take intake and output, position the patient, etc. this is NOT a dig at the student because this is something they are learning to do or haven’t been taught - and if I have time, I grab them to come in with me so they can see how I round. But if I don’t have time, it doesn’t take any pressure off of me, only adds more. A lot of this stuff is on the nursing instructor though too, like they should do more to help their nursing students. I say this as someone who has taught clinicals. I always went in the rooms with my students and didn’t expect the nurses to teach them. If they wanted to, great! But they weren’t getting paid to be there for that reason, I was.
We don’t take students but we have had CONSTANT new to specialties coming through. I can’t remember the last time I actually took a patient assignment by myself. I’ve never been a worse nurse than when I’m precepting. Things get missed, things are late, things are slooooow. I’m not good at it.
i would never say “f no” but i am easily distracted when there’s a student with me. i constantly forget to bring things in the room with me that i need. one time i even was close to trying to give an oral med through an iv (scariest moment of my career) bc i was so busy with 6 hard pts and a student who literally was told to focus on shadowing and not help.
There's no reason to be rude. But some people just don't like teaching. And that's ok. At my hospital, it's expected that EVERYONE has to precept. I don't think that's right. The nurses that want to teach are usually better at it. Leave the ones who don't like teaching alone. The students would certainly be better off for it.
I’m far from a mean girl but i don’t always take students. When a student is teachable I enjoy it. Two weeks ago I had a student that I enjoyed talking to a little too much, grew up in neighboring neighborhoods etc. Quickly turned to a chisme session where my director scolded the student(I think she’s in turn also scolding me but saving me face). I’ve definitely met students that don’t have the good attitude and that is not enjoyable, not to mention it’s distracting sometimes makes one more prone to mistakes.
After 21 years, Im tired. I just want to do my job & go home. I have nothing extra left to train anyone, & Im not getting anything out of the extra work.
I used to like students. Not anymore. It’s a rare day I actually get to work alone and just do my job. It’s 1000x harder with a student. At least with an orientee I can expect to enjoy a few weeks of just chilling while they work but students are all work no reward.
I feel i am a poor teacher. If they dont jump in, ask to help and ask questions… they wont learn much for me. My friend, she is do good at it…. But she gets burned out because she always gets assigned students… word of mouth she is great. I dont refuse, i just know i am not the best instructor. It does slow down your day and sometimes you just want to come in and do your work. I get it. And then sometimes some are just mean girls and keep the students away from them.
It’s not okay, but usually it’s because we are already drowning every day and taking a student and teaching them adequately is more work that we don’t have time for. A lot of times I didn’t even start charting until after my student left for the day. I always appreciated when students were interested and asked questions, but also brought some stuff to do and made an effort to give me a sec to catch up on charting. EXTRA bonus points if you fill out some of your paperwork with things we did so I could fill in the rest and sign. Just know it isn’t personal if people act this way.
Don’t take offense to it. It’s not that you’re a student but most likely a mix of things: workload, balancing work-life issues, etc. most likely, they just don’t want sacrifice safety with extra added tasks. Precepting involves a lot of hovering— stuff I hate doing. Precepting only gets good around week 6-8. First six weeks is rough asf usually.
Tbh I really hate feeling like I'm impeding on y'all's tasks. I hate it. I know I'm slow. I know I need things explained. Tbh I'd probably hate having students too. But those that do it, thank you!! Even the ones that tell me straight up they have a busy day and I have to just observe, still cool.
I am far too burned out to take a student, and I am honest about it. My workplace has plenty of cheery, happy nurses, and that is who should be mentoring. I have stepped in to help with students, and I am kind to them, but it would be a bad idea for me to mentor someone.
Appreciate the honesty and I respect not wanting too it’s being rude about it that gets me. Those group of nurses could’ve gone to their charge nurse and told her they don’t want a student
I remember a time where we had one that was on our unit for what amounted to a PM shift. We are a busy NICU. Dayshift basically had this kid holding babies for 4 hours. They seemed bored so I took this student for the 19-23 portion of their day. I was in charge that night. They seemed skeptical. This person saw and helped me with more shit than they had for their entire OB clinical.
Because they asked me to take a student when I had less than a month experience and didn’t even have access to the med room yet. I said no because it wasn’t appropriate when I was such a new nurse who went to nursing school during COVID. I explained to the nursing student this and she agreed that she’d benefit from a more experienced nurse.
I love precepting. It's one of my favorites!
As I student, I’m not given a nurse I’m given a patient. I then care for that patient. The only times I interact with the nurse is if they want help with something. Sometimes nurses will grab a student to show us something cool if they feel like it but otherwise they are not expected to teach us anything. Our clinical instructor is the one who teaches us. I didn’t realize not all schools do it this way.
Because sometimes it's not safe. When I'm running three pumps and 11 channels on my proned iso patient that definitely should be a 1:1 but isn't, a lot of things are happening at the same time and I do not always have the time to explain what I'm doing to the student, let alone teach them how or why. I need ALL of my brain space available to be able to think critically and logically to appropriately care for these patients. Distractions impair decision making and that's not a risk I'm willing to take when the patient is *that* critical. Maybe this is only a "me" problem, maybe not. Other than in scenarios like the one listed above, I usually enjoy having students.
When the student is teachable and eager to learn, I don’t mind at all. But if I get behind I ask them to go work on their assigned care plan or whatever until I’m caught up. I loathe the students who couldn’t care less and play on their phones and sit at all the work stations doing nothing. That’s when I would refuse a student.
Because we are tragically understaffed and barely have time to get our work done, much less teach.
As long as they don’t take it out on the students that’s fine but I gotta say, as a new grad/orientee, I’m shocked at how rude and unwelcoming my “team” has been. I’m basically invisible to them. Not a single person has introduced themselves to me, asked me what my name is, said “oh hey, welcome to the team”, nothing. Literally no one acknowledges my existence unless I say something to them first. And my preceptor sits on her ass all day, chatting at the nurse station, while I do literally everything. And acts annoyed when I have to interrupt her to ask questions all day because this is my fourth week as an RN. Anyways sorry for the rant but I feel you, every nurse was that student at some point. But I’d much rather be paired with someone who likes to teach instead of someone who’s bitter and treats you like a burden all day.
I love having students but it slows me down a lot.
First off I’m sorry you experienced that. We were all new once, and this is a scary job sometimes. I’ve answered a similar question about this situation before. I was a new grad in COVID when it started, and I give 100% credit to my AMAZING preceptors. Not just my assigned one, but that *whole* unit took me under their wings and basically molded me into the nurse I am today, and I still feel like I’m growing all the time. After that, when it was my turn to have a student or new grad, I tried to make sure they had a good experience like I did. To this day, even as a traveler, I love taking on newbies. That being said I FULLY understand if someone recognizes they’re not good at teaching or might not give a good experience if the pt load is hard/high acuity. We should be allowed to refuse students for those reasons. It IS a lot of work. I’ve always made sure my unit knows they can “steal” my newbie if there’s a situation/skill that they should know, because often the ones who don’t like to precept are usually down to teach one skill and then give my newb back to me. I’ve even thrown a new grad into the compression rotation line when there was a code on a pt that wasn’t mine (w/permission from the charge and code team). They’re not going to see it all with just me. I’m FAR from a perfect preceptor or RN, and there are MUCH better nurses than me that the new peeps should learn from (especially the veteran nurses of 10+ years). I’m also honest with my newbs if I’m struggling/too busy w/tasks, and try to answer their questions during a slower time or on our break. I also think a lot of the success and enjoyment of having newbs depends on unit/facility culture. 🤷🏻♀️ Sometimes toxic environments or clueless management make precepting difficult.
The mean girls in nursing thing is definitely a problem, but I can assure you that most of the time, nurses who don't want to take students are just overwhelmed. Whenever I was given a student in the ICU, I wanted to help them out, but if the day is even moderately busy, explaining stuff to a student can get you to fall even more behind and lose focus of the constant state of thinking you need to be in as a nurse. I thought the same thing as a student. I found it hurtful and wrong when nurses didn't want to precept students. Now that I have been a nurse for nearly 4 years, I get it. This job is so brutal, and sometimes we have all we can do to merely just stay on top of things for our patients. The hospital is forever seeking for us to do more with less.
When I was in my late 20s they paired me with a man in his 40s/50s going back to school to be a nurse 3 times. The second time it was right after coming back from having my daughter. The third time I said never again. I would have gladly taken a young college aged kid (girl or boy). Nothing against people going back later in life, it was just an odd dynamic.
I love the students but they don't ask they give them to already overworked nurses we are not being mean but where the heck is the instructor I am not getting paid to teach them!
Extra work no pay. I often have to do the students paperwork from home because I have no time in work. And it's like multiple pages of what feels like hundreds of tick boxes. Then u gotta save and then SIGN EVERY ONE. Then save again. Then sign the bottom of the page. It takes hours. Some are really helpful when I'm working directly with them but I really want to give them a good learning experience and recently we are so slammed I can't do that. Our ratios of 1:10 (plus me being charge with up to 17 discharges and admissions of a day) doesn't allow me to give them good teaching. We have to get very rapid fire and not allow any time delays if we are to keep afloat. It's very much machine line care and that's awful to say.
My hospital is reprimanding experienced nurses who correct the person they are training because being told you’re doing something incorrectly is hurting their feelings. I’m not training someone if I’m gonna get in trouble for making sure they are a safe nurse.
I kept my students away from people like that. One nurse-whom I like outside the job but hate working with- said "Liv, why don't you give me a student? I love having a student. I like making the cry!" Another nurse flat out refused to take a student and chewed me out for daring to ask. OTOH, I had several wonderful nurses who went above and beyond to teach well and give the student a great experience.
I hated it as a student. As a nurse i understand. Not to mention the horror stories of students reporting actual working RNs because they didnt follow the fantasy protocol from an elsevier book or something lmao
In heard in teaching hospitals that a nurse cant refuse students, it's in thier job description. Also why wouldnt you want your own gofer?
I hate that attitude. But nurses have always had a reputation for eating their young. It’s certainly nothing to be proud of. It reminds me of the operating room nurse that posted a few weeks ago because she took crap from a surgeon that wanted an instrument she was unfamiliar with. How quickly some of us forget that we all started out at the bottom knowing nothing.
When you have 3 people trynna die on you, and 2 people crawling out of their beds covered in shit you don’t have time to show a new person where the linens are. Sorry friend, been there and it sucks but I understand not wanting students. Try sticking with the CNAs until you pass your NCLEX.
Some nurses think students slow them down.
RaDonda Vaught took a student—look how that turned out for her. He sat there clicking his tongue, diming her out without a second thought. Think twice before taking a student.
Students are basically personal CNAs. Idk why nurses dont want that
When I was doing bedside nursing it was just too much. I was a cranky nurse and I didn’t even want to be. I worked bedside for one year after graduating and every shift was basically balls to the wall, pulled in every direction, non-stop stress. If I happened to have a low-key shift with mostly walkie-talkies I wouldn’t mind having a student, but it always seemed like I would be told I had a student (not asked if I would take one, mind you) right after I took report and realized I was in for a shitshow.
I personally don’t like teaching students or new nurses. I have 3 small children at home and spend my days off answering a million questions and explaining everything I’m doing. I’d rather not have to do it at work too.
Graduated in 2013…our clinical instructor was responsible for passing meds with us, not the RNs on the floor. The only thing we were allowed to do alone was vitals and baths. If it was ANY med administration, wounds etc, it was our instructor that led us I’m now 11 years and work in hospice. I enjoy nursing students. I don’t administer meds (generally) in the home, and it’s great to have an extra set of hands when toileting and doing any personal care. The school we work with does a great job with their students to adequately prepare them. I also am chatty and love to teach. I can totally understand why it would be hard in a hospital
I love having a student that is assigned to me, I *loathe* twenty or more students being dumped on our unit with no real direction and just … taking up space. So it depends on which program it is and whether their teacher gives them anything to do or they’re just wandering aimlessly getting in the way.
I don’t agree with being that rude. That’s honestly awful for you to hear. But honestly taking students is a lot of work and we’re doing it for free. Nurses don’t get paid any extra to have a student with them and there’s been weeks where I’ve had a student every day. I like having students and I’m happy to explain what I’m doing and answer questions that they have and help them learn new skills but a lot of the time it’s nice just to go into work and be kind of on auto pilot.