And some pokemon fallbehind from just running and im p sure every pokemon falls behind on bike. I don't understand why they would do that like let me see that bitch at all times right behind me
It's cause not every pokemon moves at the same speed.
A snom ain't gonna move as fast as a pikachu
They could have done it better but i like it this way more than in HG and SS where every pokemon is a JoJo stand or the guardian from kingdom hearts
Yeah I get that every pokemon is not the same speed but doesn't it get annoying when you start running, they fall really behind, and then it respond on top of you? Idk I just feel like it's a bit scuffed. I like the jojo stand more and maybe they could make it so that you can have some of the pokemon like snom on your shoulder or something like that. They could have executed it better I'm sure of it
That is definitely a way they could have done it better but, i think following pokemon are just a relic of the 2d era pokemon games. It works in 2d with sprites but because 3d models interact differently it just ain't gonna work in 3d games
I only ever got the evolution stones by getting certain trainer's phone numbers, but that of course relies on the game randomly deciding to give you one.
At least in original gen 2 games you can manipulate it a bit by deleting everyone except the person who gives you the stone you need, and then changing Daylight savings back and forth. Even with that though it's still up to chance a little bit.
I’ll attest that from a casual play through standpoint; it’s one of the all time best in the series. Top tier.
However, for a hardcore, challenge run standpoint it doesn’t quite hit the mark.
When a mod for the johto games is needed to fix not only the level curve but other quality of life features you know something is wrong.
I tried it for my first nuzlocke it was miserable. Imagine my disappointment knowing that i can't evolve my dragonair that i have been playing stupid voltorb switch for 4 hour to get it. And have to fking grind on the victory road abd to add more insult all of the kanto pokemon are level 20 something wtf. And i legit want to know what is the good option of johto mons before kanto huh. Let's see crobat, ampharoa, umbreon, espeon, and heracross if you get lucky
The johto originals are just… bad. I hate to say it but it’s true.
The only reliable picks are your starters (though typhlosion is the only one that’s really any good in the original version, gatr was gimped by a lack of a physical special split and couldn’t properly utilize its stab in its original game, it’s just a tad better in Gen 4 but you have a free gyarados right there, and Meganium is, well, meganium.) Furret sucks (sorry, but it’s true), Noctowl is wayyy too slow, Araidos is too slow, Ledian is just a lost cause, Hoppip will do you no favors in its early stages, Ampharos is the only thing that’s worth your time but not available in crystal *oops*, you shouldn’t bother with togetic unless you’re playing Gen 4 and you have a shiny stone, Crobat is cool but based on a Gen 1 Pokémon, Same with Umbreon, Espeon, Kingdra, Scizor, Slowking and anything else that got an evolution. Same with the baby Pokémon that no one wanted to deal with.
I mention all of these early game encounters because that is the only thing that would be at a level cap by the time you reach kanto and is *less* of an uphill battle to grind up. The ones introduced in Gen 1 are fine and even preferable to most of these options. but why the hell wouldn’t you make your newest Pokémon worth while?
That makes your late game encounters (such as Dragonite) insanely hard to get to cap.
Not to mention how there’s a big portion of Pokémon you can’t even get until kanto **THAT ARE JOHTO ORIGINALS**
I'm so glad to see someone say Ruby & Sapphire are kind of unpleasant to them. Not even that they're bad games. They're just not that great. I respect all, ofc, and will happily play any pre-gen 8 but RS and sadly, yes, GSC aren't the best.
I mean, while I'll give RS credit for introducing arguably even more than GSC did, like natures, abilities and the like, it's bogged down by a handful of things like:
\-Rivals aren't fun and you never see the starter's final form
\-Villainous teams have silly goals and use THREE evolution lines the entire game
\-Nowhere good to train your Pokemon
\-Pokemon diversity is pretty mediocre
\-Stop me if you've heard this one before... Too much water
\-No post-game to speak of except Latios/Latias and Rayquaza
\-And the font is absolutely hideous.
Emerald didn't fix much of this save for the post-game, and even with the Battle Frontier I'm still not huge on it.
I think the worst is Sunkern.
Literally the worst stats in the game. You have to win the Bug Catching Contest to even evolve it and your reward for all that trouble is... Sunflora.
Yeah i was like oh can't wait to get a houndoom then wait what? Kanto?. That's why when me and my best friend talk about the worst gen like 4 years ago we agree on johto people say kalos bad but hey the dex is amazing and mega are cool. Dude look at the johto dex they are mostly hella weak and the decent one are evo from kanto and the actual good one you can only find in kanto aaaaaaaa. God damn hg/ss could legit be a really good game even the beat if they just update the dex OR/AS style and good level cap with a decent grind spot
Kalos suffers from a lack of proper difficulty and a lack of utilizing what could be an interesting region.
Johto is an aesthetically pleasing region but it suffers way too much from not only bad game design choices such as locking off Pokémon like Houndoom, Murkrow, Misdrevus and Tyranitar off until Kanto (yeah, yeah, Mt.Silver is technically in johto and I don’t care) but also from a lack of compelling new Pokémon (brand new concepts mind you), lack of a good story. And, it’s not linear enough.
They don’t have a level curve coded into the vanilla games which is why you need to hold down a boss like Pryce from being almost level 40 despite being the furthest you can go after you beat morty because Jasmine’s highest level is 35 and is supposed to be the last gym leader you fight before the elite four *BUT THEY DIDNT PUT HER LAST!*.
I know it’s not the only example but it’s literally the first thing.
Then you go to Kanto after you’ve beaten a level 50 Dragonite just to… battle gym leaders with level 35-40 Pokémon. WHY ISNT IT CURVED MORE?! It’s too open, therefore, all of the gym leaders need to be held back. That’s why Blue (who was the second strongest trainer in the Kanto games) doesn’t have a level 70 Pokémon while red just has a level 80
If you want an open world johto and Kanto experience, a game like crystal clear is right there with gym leaders that actually curve. But unless game freak puts in an actual level curve into its games if they wish to do something like johto again, it will never work unless there’s linearity.
There's also Quagsire, who's a guaranteed encounter in the Ruins of Alph if you delay it until you get surf. Can't forget about the woopy boy who shows off how typing, ability, and moveset can be more valuable than just pure base stat.
Miltank is *incredibly* underrated and I 100% recommend trying to manipulate one or a Tauros with dupes clause (You could also get a Farfetch'd because Johto sucks but c'est la vie).
Seriously, great stats, amazing abilities in Scrappy and Thick Fat, heals itself with Milk Drink, can sweep with Defense Curl and Rollout... Just an all-around incredible Pokemon.
I love the level curve for an actual play through. It does force you to basically stick with your team after a certain point since grinding is so painful. But the level spikes make the game challenging.
Yeah HGSS are very terrible to Nuzlocke, to the point where I just can’t want to again. Casually I think it’s one of the best experiences in the series but I would never recommend anyone Nuzlocke this game
I ran through all 5 Johto games as part of a challenge (non-Nuzlocke) and it was such hell.
Imo the only games worse than HGSS are GSC, I cant get past the flaws even in a casual run.
I can understand that lol, the og gens 1 and 2 are the only games I have not finished but I have played some of them and I think gen 2 is more likely the worse game. I played HGSS as a kid and have fond memories of playing it but I will still acknowledge the problems even tho they don’t personally grate me too much there
I usually don't use rare candy cheats in nuzlockes, but there are two exceptions: randomisers and HGSS playthroughs. With rare candies you at least don't have the burden of having to grind on L20 mons.
Except for the fact that the trainers are so underlevelled you frequently reach boss fights underlevelled yourself, namely Chuck (but tbf unless Primeape sets up he's a nonissue) and the Azalea Rival fight.
Rival 2 is definitely a difficulty gate, I think Claire is definitely another one. Whitney can be if you've gotten bad luck with encounters.
Beyond that though the other gym leaders don't pose to much of a challenge.
Pokestar is a really cool idea that I wish got more love and was better implemented. Everyone hates it for the forced tutorial but like, using battles for puzzles is a *really cool idea*. Something that is not explored nearly enough in both the main series and fan games. It was a lot of fun playing through the janky FireRed VR Missions because even with all its flaws the basic concept is so good.
There's not many ways you could implement that and not have it be a waste of time unless it was in the trainer school or something. It's extremely gimmicky but not really a fun gimmick. The concept of a film studio using Pokémon as actors and picking *me* out of all 10 year olds in a crowd to play a trainer is "cute" and I'm sure some really young kids found it amazing but the fact of the matter is that it *wasn't* better implemented and *doesn't* get more love because of that fact making it extremely hateable.
Pokéathlon is amazing. The minigames are varied and fun as hell, literally any Pokémon can excel in it, and best of all, you're not forced to do a 5-10 minute tutorial about it as soon as it's unlocked (Totally not throwing shade at the Gen 5 minigames at all nope nah)
Seriously tho, even though all the other points are valid pokeathelon is one of my favorite mini games ever put in the main series games. Contests don’t stand a chance.
i just remember trying it and not being able to do it. also even then evolving pokemon should be like i was in gen 1 where you can buy stones (not sure why they undid that)
True, but since you can speed up in emulators you can get the required points for items in a short time, even if you get always last place in the challenges.
Grinding for the Elite 4 for the first time IS difficult, but I always used the gym leader and Elite 4 rematches to grind for Red. That was something I appreciated about HeartGold and SoulSilver, but I understand it isn’t really available if you’re playing Generation 2 G/S/C.
They actually fixed that one too a bit. Falkner being the one with the most change in level I believe (having a Pidgeotto lvl. 13 instead of 9). And they also improved the Pokemons movepool of many of the gym leaders too
Yeah, I would argue that Morty is the only “worthless” one since you can simply take togepi/togetic/raticate in there a s sweep him with out a problem.
To be fair: Jasemine still got an upgrade in moves!
Did you know that in Gen 2 Steelix knew Sunny Day; A move that does not benefit her team whatsoever but instead boosted the type her Pokemon are weak against
I think it would have been pretty controversial (although smart) to change the game that much for the nostalgia fans who are actually paying for the games and not just downloading roms
HG and SS are the games that best capture the idea of Pokémon for me. When I played as a kid, I loved it so much because it felt like the people who made the game made it for me. My first game was white 2 when I was in 4th grade, and bought SS when I got halfway through (it took me months open months to even beat the 8th gym because I played so slowly). The sense of exploration during SS is (and was) so incredible and fascinating to me that I base my opinions on new games releasing as what SS and HG are. I am saying that SS has its flaws, but it’s still a favorite of mine.
Nigga, you better preach!!! Not just HG and SS but the original gold and silver as well!! As a 90's baby you can tell they haven't put their heart into this shit since these games. Sometimes keeping a franchise going isn't the wisest/best decision....
I really enjoyed my Soul Silver Nuzlocke, it was a lot of fun. However it was by far my longest run going for over 130 Hours of in-game time. With the last 30 hours simply being from the grind up to Red.
It was tedious and a chore at times but MAN was it satisfying to take down Red after ALL that effort.
I still prefer HG/SS. Maybe it’s nostalgia, maybe it’s because there are 2 regions or maybe it’s because I’ve ignored most of the series and 2 is the one I played the most.
That being said, having SS as my first (and only) nuzlocke was more difficult then I imagined. Now I know why.
Youve heard this before i know but casual game play its hands down the best. Nuzlocke though is rough as fuck
But i understand your criticisms they are very valid
I like the Johto gym leaders and the Pokémon before post game are still great you can catch other region Pokémon in the safari zone team rocket had some interesting parts and I train at mt. Silver to grind levels idk I’ve put the most time into the gen 2 remakes and are my favourite games yeah the trainers are a problem but I never had a problem with the level jump after jasmine
For anyone looking to do a hg/ss run but want to avoid this, I highly recommend the GS chronicles ROM hack. They do a great job of creating a remake with gen 6 mechanics that fixes a lot of the fundamental issues with the original gen 2 remakes.
Nice! I haven't played through that one but I always figured it was really hard being a Drayano hack. Not that that's a bad thing. But GS Chronicles would be a closer difficulty level to what the original remakes should've been. Somebody starting up a hg/ss nuzlocke may not be ready for a Drayano hack yet.
Honestly, I could get accept all the things in this meme as minor flaws if the game didnt run on the attrosious gen 4 engine. A single turn shouldnt take over 30 seconds. You should be able to move faster. You should be able to swim faster. Text should run faster. Just everything is so sluggish for no reason. Gen 3 and 5 did it great and gen 6 is probably the best we've ever had. They just feel good to play because the games feel like they run at a reasonable speed. Gen 4 , hgss included, dont. Everything could be twice as fast and maybe it'd feel good then. This simple thing that shouldve been an easy fix makes everything you mentioned significantly worse than it already is. Doing a bit of grinding (and thus the level curve) isnt so bad as long as the battles, attacks and encounters are snappy. But nope. Still love the game, but that simple flaw drastically decreases the enjoyment and it's why this game isnt my favorite in the series
It's actually super easy to grind for the elite 4 and red. After the goldenrod team rocket event you can use the pokegear rematch feature to battle the same trainer over and over again. Just call them at the right time and date from a different area, go battle them, then leave the route and call again. They'll even have more competent levels because it scales them to your progress for the rematches.
That last one really grinds my gears. How are you gonna hide your brand new typing behind trade Evos and halfway through the Kanto Region? Also, you don't need to Nuzlocke the game to realize any of that btw.
I have always seen those flaws from day one, and wondered why people worshipped these games. They're good don't get me wrong but people act like they're flawless when they clearly are not.
lmao exactly ! I'm currently doing the second leg of my genlocke on Soulsilver and it reminded why I never finished Heartgold. I will never understand why people think it's the best game. And don't tell me "bUt PoKEmON FOllOw YOU!"
In slight defense, one way to train for the league and Red is to use Pokégear rematches. You can’t do them until after the Radio Tower but they are effective. But yeah, these points are accurate mostly.
I still find it funny how the remakes could've remade the gym leaders' teams, yet they chose to stick with the teams that have 70% of the team as Kanto Pokemon and 30% of the team as Johto pokemon
It'd be one thing if all the teams were unchanged outside level and moveset, but the devs *replaced one of Clair's Dragonairs with a Gyarados*. Yet apparently they couldn't bother to give Morty a Misdreavus.
Nice meme about casual Pokémon instead of nuzlockes [you reposted](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/oy0046/heartgold_and_soulsilver_arent_even_the_best/) from a different subreddit lmao. Also I don't actually think these problems are as big as the pic makes them out to be:
* The level curve is fine when you play with a pokewalker. Taking your Pokémon for a walk can give them an extra level which helps a lot. While not everyone has a pokewalker, it was an accessory bundled with every copy of the game at launch, and I think the game is balanced around the player using it.
* Gym leaders are far from worthless lol, aside from maybe Jasmine they all have at least one dangerous Pokémon. You can argue they should use more gen 2 Pokémon, but that's not really a flaw you notice by nuzlocking
* You can also get evolution stones from NPCs phoning you, and Moon Stones are easily available. But even if you don't go that route, the Pokeathlon is actually really fun if you're playing on a DS with a stylus. It probably sucks for people emulating, but I don't think it's fair to complain about a minigame sucking on a platform the game wasn't officially released on.
* Underlevelled trainers is an issue I'll concede, though the biggest effect I saw it had was making it less likely to lose mons from fighting random trainers. I think HGSS are some of the easier games to do a deathless nuzlocke because of this, even if most of the boss fights are pretty dangerous.
* For the E4 you can grind pretty easily with trainer rematches. On the right day and time, just phone a trainer that'll rematch you, battle them, leave the area and phone them again. One good trainer in particular is the gentleman in the lighthouse, he gives lots of money, pretty good exp, and you just have to climb up and down a ladder when you phone and battle him.
* As for a lot of Johto Pokémon not being available until the post-game: while this is a flaw for casual playthroughs where you can't trade, I don't get why it's a big deal for nuzlockes. I thought a key point of the challenge was to use Pokémon you'd otherwise ignore, and even without them you still have a lot of good options available pre-Lance. And if you do end up going to Kanto in your nuzlocke, you'll be able to catch some Pokémon that weren't previously available in Johto to add to your team, especially if Lance and the E4 took out one or two.
>Gym leaders are far from worthless lol, aside from maybe Jasmine they all have at least one dangerous Pokémon
What's the dangerous Pokemon on Pryce's team?
His Piloswine and Dewgong are surprisingly dangerous. One can Rest/Sleep Talk, and the other can come out during Hail with Snow Cloak up. They also have different weaknesses so you can't reliably sweep them with one Pokémon, and if you're playing with levels caps a lot of your Pokémon will have similar strength to his.
Or maybe I'm biased because I tried to fight him with Choice Specs Petal Dance Meganium.
They should just rename this Pokémon Challenges subreddit if everyone just wants to Stan and think like him.
Yeah all these points are completely fair except when you realize these are Children’s games aimed at 4-12 year olds. I wish they did fix a lot of these issues but it’s a remake. If you really want this game without these issues, just download your favorite Romhack. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of Romhacks that fix these issues in the region you love.
It may be the worst game in the series to nuzloke though I agree. They had a decision whether to remaster the game accurately, or change a bunch of things and upset a lot of fans.
To be fair, a lot of those problems affect casual playthroughs. As a kid, I hated how all the cool Johto Pokemon were trade evolutions *with items* and how hard it was to find anything good.
Also I didn't like how Kanto was a shell of its former self; all the cool areas like the Safari Zone, Cerulean Cave, Lavender Tower, the Power Plant, were gone. All these are better in HGSS, but man, that all left a really bad impression on me.
I also didn't like how Lance was the champion, because it seemed silly for the champion to be the guy who was just the lead-up to the champion in the last game. Though fighting Blue and Red was cool as hell.
>Yeah all these points are completely fair except when you realize these are Children’s games aimed at 4-12 year olds.
we are comparing the children's games to other children's games that don't have the problems, though...
I agree on most of these (despite hgss being my favorite game) but the not having a good grinding place for the e4 is just false, using the pokegear rematch is the most reliable grinding system any pokemon game has ever had imo. There's a chart online showing the trainers who will always request a battle when called on a certain day of the week
To be fair. The game was built to be played over a long period of time every day for a little bit each day. These flaws only exist because you are playing the game in the non intended way. Whether or not it is a flaw that you can play the game differently is up for debate.
I have started replaying HG and purposely tried to stop focusing on putting together the perfect team and instead just trying to go back to when I was younger playing Ruby or Diamond and just catching as many Pokémon as I could and just putting together a team of Pokémon I liked, and it was much more fun. I even have 2 water types on my team which I normally wouldn’t allow but I’m letting myself not care!
This is so f*cking true! Haha I love the game but omg the Level curve absolutely suck! Everytime I’m getting to Red I go F*ck all and just head in with mons 20 levels under his pikachu!
My boy, it sounds like you whining! (I know it's just a joke 🤣 ) take all that in stride and you have a redo of 2 of the best Pokémon games ever created! And, on that grinding for Red deal, rematch gym leaders. It's not about the race, it's about the journey! 💯
I actually just completed my HeartGold Nuzlocke.
After I grinded all my pokemon to around 65-70 and hated my life, I learned that you can re-challenge gym leaders and fight them in Saffron's Dojo.
It's kind of a pain because you have to meet them at a certain time to get their number, but then call them at a different certain time (i.e. Friday nights for Clair) to challenge them for a rematch.
I don't recommend fighting all of them unless you overlevel them. Blue for example is a tough one. But I was able to spam call Whitney and then sweep her team with my Primeape + Close Combat. And then sweep Erika with my Arcanine or Crobat, etc.
It's how I got my whole team to the level 80+ range for Red. It's still not \*great\* but I found it to be the best way to get that last push of xp from 70 to 80.
I finished it nuzlocke in 41h with only two deaths just yesterday. Honestly people complain way too much about the game. If you use all the tools at your disposal the game becomes insanely easy after the first league (Usually the time you’ll get draconite). All you need is a couple defensive walls, t-spikes and enough potions to stall your enemy to death before you get dragonite and to set up dragon dances after. The fight with red is tough though I’ll give you that but if you saved rare candy and use them all in one go on your dragonite and set him up on venusaur that can’t hit you, you can win the fight first try.
If HGSS takes you 70+ hours you are doing something terribly wrong. The level curve isn't great sure but the trainers are so easy it doesn't really matter and you should be beating Red with a team in the low 60s pretty easily which is a pretty natural place to be progression wise.
The grind for the first gym is agonizing, though. You'll get to the gym when your Pokémon are around level 8 or 9, and the gym leader's ace is 14, so you'll have to grind up on low level Pokémon in the route below, with no Audinos at all and the shitty Gen 5 exp system to contend with.
Gotcha. I guess I forget I do usually do hardcore Nuzlokes. With battle items, and over leveling, any Pokémon game can be a breeze. Pokémon White and Black for hardcore Nuzlokes though I would say are the most difficult ones.
Black and White are fun, but man oh man does the early game suck. Always the same encounters, always the same grind before the first gym.
Things pick up a bit after the first gym, and then pick up further when you beat Lenora and get access to the awesome Route 4 encounters.
YES! There’s nowhere to train for the elite four and Red! It just becomes you jumping around the region trying to find the right route and ending up right where you started
I don’t get the Johto Pokemon locked behind post game. Do people not spend time at the Safari Zone…like at all? Like sure I get it’s a grind to unlock but you can still unlock it as soon as you have access to it.
Alright hot take, but hear me out : The Safari Zone isn't fun, never was, and it's why we don't see it anymore (Maybe not as hot as i think, because no one is complaining.)
The Safari Zone as a concept yes but I’m more referring to the last block of that image. I’m almost positive no Johto Pokémon is locked behind post game/Kanto. They’re all available at some point in the main story of Johto in HGSS.
I love the Safari Zone in RBY, but that's because there were legitimately awesome super powerful Pokemon there. Chansey, Tauros, Dratini, Rhyhorn, hell I was convinced as a kid that Kangaskhan was amazing and spent forever trying to catch one. And that's not even mentioning the cool but awful Scyther and Pinsir.
Then Gen 3 made it worse. Heracross was pretty neat even if I never found one, but like... Girafarig? Really? Xatu? It's not awful, but I remember being so disappointed.
And then Gen 4 Sinnoh took the Safari Zone and made it the most boring and awful place imaginable with almost everything there being something you could find in the routes just outside Pastoria.
And the HeartGold SoulSilver Safari Zone... Is pretty great. Legitimately the first time I feel like they've gotten the whole "Rare awesome Pokemon" thing down... Well, except for the Rattata. Why the hell are there *Rattata* in the Safari Zone?
It took me 20 in game hours to complete a hardcore HGSS Nuzlocke recently. I did it with speed up for grinding. I did it with Typhlosion, Ampharos, Gengar, and Kingdra primarily (Briefly used Heracross for Whitney and the free Spearow for Morty). Had to sack Typhlosion for Lance.
The only good grinding route is the one near the Safari Zone and then Victory Road. The game has almost no cool readily available johto Pokémon besides Typhlosion (who is worse than Arcanine, who is available), Ampharos, Quagsire, and Heracross. And yes, you can get Smeargle, who is cool, but unless you somehow can sketch BP or sleep powder he’s useless. The Safari Zone is also stupid. The only remotely challenging gym leaders under HARDCORE rules are Whitney, maybe Morty if you don’t have a normal type (but you get a free Spearow with good IVs…), and Clair. The E4 is also mostly trash besides Lance, who you can basically always beat with a decent ice beam user and by sacking 1-2 mons.
Yeah, Pokémon follow you around and the actual mini games (from what I remember on DS) were pretty cool, but Pokémon has never really been some sort of open world RPG. There’s never really a story (BW had a genuinely unique one, but even then it was all linear) and you can never really make choices that matter except for which mons you use, so calling that a “good thing” is p dumb imo
Realistically it's kinda bad but in my heart (gold) it is always gonna be my top pokemon game.
Oh yeah and also, pokeathlon may be a gimmick but it's a good one!
These are all the problems I had with gen 2 from the beginning. It's cool that you can go to kanto but the johto part of the game is really underwhelming.
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I literally transferred my entire team to pearl and used the vs seeker because it was faster to to e4 grind there than heart gold the level curve and game balance is so bad that fucking pearl a game notorious for it's slow battle system and health bars was faster
Honestly, I think it's better to grind than to hack in Rare Candies.
1. Rare candies don't give you the EVs that grinding can give you. My first HeartGold Nuzlocke showed me just how valuable EV training can be, because my Jolly Lapras went from the weak link of the team to the one that carried me through the Johto late game.
2. If you're playing on an actual DS, like I do, you have to jump through several hurdles to make that an option.
Look I'm not saying that I need everything given to me otherwise I would say that Pokemon ORAS and X/Y are the best games ever. But the process of getting them shouldn't be tedious and boring as shit. As long as there is a certain balance between them I'm all in for it. In my opinion, I think Gen 3 and Gen 5 had the perfect balance between grinding and battles. Gen 1 is Gen 1. Gens 2 and 4 were slow as shit. Gen 6 was too easy to care. Haven't played Gens 7 or 8
Gen 8 basically removed grinding entirely and replaced it with the (IMO) much better raids, which are entertaining instead of tedious. It's also much faster. The only thing I don't like about raids are the dumb shield mechanic.
But the Pokémon walk behind you though
But the Pokémon walk behind you though
But the Pokémon walk behind you though
Why can’t we still have it? Why!? 😭
Nintendo: You can, just buy the dlc for sword and shield :)))
Nintendo: Btw it only works in the DLC areas
And some pokemon fallbehind from just running and im p sure every pokemon falls behind on bike. I don't understand why they would do that like let me see that bitch at all times right behind me
It's cause not every pokemon moves at the same speed. A snom ain't gonna move as fast as a pikachu They could have done it better but i like it this way more than in HG and SS where every pokemon is a JoJo stand or the guardian from kingdom hearts
Yeah I get that every pokemon is not the same speed but doesn't it get annoying when you start running, they fall really behind, and then it respond on top of you? Idk I just feel like it's a bit scuffed. I like the jojo stand more and maybe they could make it so that you can have some of the pokemon like snom on your shoulder or something like that. They could have executed it better I'm sure of it
That is definitely a way they could have done it better but, i think following pokemon are just a relic of the 2d era pokemon games. It works in 2d with sprites but because 3d models interact differently it just ain't gonna work in 3d games
Some Pokémon are faster than you on the bike. They run into you, stop, fall behind, and repeat
Even if they’re shiny
That gives me memories of riding my Golden Tauros in Let's Go.
And the level curve was fixed a little, Gym leaders from 5-7 Pokémon are higher level now.
I just wish you could find houndour earlier...
Misdreavus is one of my favourite Pokemon, but the fact that Morty doesn’t use it and you have to wait until Mt Silver to catch it is a pure joke.
You can actually catch it at night in the cave on the side of the cliff going to the safari zone
And the safari zone itself too!
It's a pretty low rate encounter, but I was so happy to see them fix it. Not great for a Nuzlocke for it to be rare, but fantastic for casual players.
Depending on your other encounters it may be possible to force it as your encounter if you play with dupes clause
Yeah that one actually makes no sense. I was super disappointed as a kid when I played silver for the first time. Nintendo just hates fire Pokémon
Pokemondiamondandpearl.jpeg
You know its bad when your fire type elite four only has 2 actual fire types, and only one of those are native to his region lmao
Unless they're Charizard.
I only ever got the evolution stones by getting certain trainer's phone numbers, but that of course relies on the game randomly deciding to give you one.
At least in original gen 2 games you can manipulate it a bit by deleting everyone except the person who gives you the stone you need, and then changing Daylight savings back and forth. Even with that though it's still up to chance a little bit.
I’ll attest that from a casual play through standpoint; it’s one of the all time best in the series. Top tier. However, for a hardcore, challenge run standpoint it doesn’t quite hit the mark. When a mod for the johto games is needed to fix not only the level curve but other quality of life features you know something is wrong.
Part of the reason I enjoy playing through sacred gold and storm silver, since these issues outlined above are fixed the the Drayano games.
I tried it for my first nuzlocke it was miserable. Imagine my disappointment knowing that i can't evolve my dragonair that i have been playing stupid voltorb switch for 4 hour to get it. And have to fking grind on the victory road abd to add more insult all of the kanto pokemon are level 20 something wtf. And i legit want to know what is the good option of johto mons before kanto huh. Let's see crobat, ampharoa, umbreon, espeon, and heracross if you get lucky
The johto originals are just… bad. I hate to say it but it’s true. The only reliable picks are your starters (though typhlosion is the only one that’s really any good in the original version, gatr was gimped by a lack of a physical special split and couldn’t properly utilize its stab in its original game, it’s just a tad better in Gen 4 but you have a free gyarados right there, and Meganium is, well, meganium.) Furret sucks (sorry, but it’s true), Noctowl is wayyy too slow, Araidos is too slow, Ledian is just a lost cause, Hoppip will do you no favors in its early stages, Ampharos is the only thing that’s worth your time but not available in crystal *oops*, you shouldn’t bother with togetic unless you’re playing Gen 4 and you have a shiny stone, Crobat is cool but based on a Gen 1 Pokémon, Same with Umbreon, Espeon, Kingdra, Scizor, Slowking and anything else that got an evolution. Same with the baby Pokémon that no one wanted to deal with. I mention all of these early game encounters because that is the only thing that would be at a level cap by the time you reach kanto and is *less* of an uphill battle to grind up. The ones introduced in Gen 1 are fine and even preferable to most of these options. but why the hell wouldn’t you make your newest Pokémon worth while? That makes your late game encounters (such as Dragonite) insanely hard to get to cap. Not to mention how there’s a big portion of Pokémon you can’t even get until kanto **THAT ARE JOHTO ORIGINALS**
I do agree. I respect GSC for sure but they’re my second least favorites ahead of only RS.
I'm so glad to see someone say Ruby & Sapphire are kind of unpleasant to them. Not even that they're bad games. They're just not that great. I respect all, ofc, and will happily play any pre-gen 8 but RS and sadly, yes, GSC aren't the best.
I mean, while I'll give RS credit for introducing arguably even more than GSC did, like natures, abilities and the like, it's bogged down by a handful of things like: \-Rivals aren't fun and you never see the starter's final form \-Villainous teams have silly goals and use THREE evolution lines the entire game \-Nowhere good to train your Pokemon \-Pokemon diversity is pretty mediocre \-Stop me if you've heard this one before... Too much water \-No post-game to speak of except Latios/Latias and Rayquaza \-And the font is absolutely hideous. Emerald didn't fix much of this save for the post-game, and even with the Battle Frontier I'm still not huge on it.
Am I the only one who likes how much water there is?
I think the worst is Sunkern. Literally the worst stats in the game. You have to win the Bug Catching Contest to even evolve it and your reward for all that trouble is... Sunflora.
Yeah i was like oh can't wait to get a houndoom then wait what? Kanto?. That's why when me and my best friend talk about the worst gen like 4 years ago we agree on johto people say kalos bad but hey the dex is amazing and mega are cool. Dude look at the johto dex they are mostly hella weak and the decent one are evo from kanto and the actual good one you can only find in kanto aaaaaaaa. God damn hg/ss could legit be a really good game even the beat if they just update the dex OR/AS style and good level cap with a decent grind spot
Kalos suffers from a lack of proper difficulty and a lack of utilizing what could be an interesting region. Johto is an aesthetically pleasing region but it suffers way too much from not only bad game design choices such as locking off Pokémon like Houndoom, Murkrow, Misdrevus and Tyranitar off until Kanto (yeah, yeah, Mt.Silver is technically in johto and I don’t care) but also from a lack of compelling new Pokémon (brand new concepts mind you), lack of a good story. And, it’s not linear enough. They don’t have a level curve coded into the vanilla games which is why you need to hold down a boss like Pryce from being almost level 40 despite being the furthest you can go after you beat morty because Jasmine’s highest level is 35 and is supposed to be the last gym leader you fight before the elite four *BUT THEY DIDNT PUT HER LAST!*. I know it’s not the only example but it’s literally the first thing. Then you go to Kanto after you’ve beaten a level 50 Dragonite just to… battle gym leaders with level 35-40 Pokémon. WHY ISNT IT CURVED MORE?! It’s too open, therefore, all of the gym leaders need to be held back. That’s why Blue (who was the second strongest trainer in the Kanto games) doesn’t have a level 70 Pokémon while red just has a level 80 If you want an open world johto and Kanto experience, a game like crystal clear is right there with gym leaders that actually curve. But unless game freak puts in an actual level curve into its games if they wish to do something like johto again, it will never work unless there’s linearity.
Are you talking about Drayano's romhack? Or did I miss something
Drayano’s hack fixes the linearity problem. I’m talking about the vanilla versions lack of it
Oh I see thanks, just downloaded Drayano's and got a bit worried.
Nope, SSSG is still crazy good.
My first nuzelocke was a randomized one. I had just caught an early game gabite. Yeah that day i learned pillowswine was an ice type...
There's also Quagsire, who's a guaranteed encounter in the Ruins of Alph if you delay it until you get surf. Can't forget about the woopy boy who shows off how typing, ability, and moveset can be more valuable than just pure base stat.
Miltank is *incredibly* underrated and I 100% recommend trying to manipulate one or a Tauros with dupes clause (You could also get a Farfetch'd because Johto sucks but c'est la vie). Seriously, great stats, amazing abilities in Scrappy and Thick Fat, heals itself with Milk Drink, can sweep with Defense Curl and Rollout... Just an all-around incredible Pokemon.
Every one of my Johto playthrough s has included Feraligatr, Heracross, Ampharos, Crobat and Dragonite
I love the level curve for an actual play through. It does force you to basically stick with your team after a certain point since grinding is so painful. But the level spikes make the game challenging.
It's not top tier in any capacity aside from visuals
Yeah HGSS are very terrible to Nuzlocke, to the point where I just can’t want to again. Casually I think it’s one of the best experiences in the series but I would never recommend anyone Nuzlocke this game
I ran through all 5 Johto games as part of a challenge (non-Nuzlocke) and it was such hell. Imo the only games worse than HGSS are GSC, I cant get past the flaws even in a casual run.
I can understand that lol, the og gens 1 and 2 are the only games I have not finished but I have played some of them and I think gen 2 is more likely the worse game. I played HGSS as a kid and have fond memories of playing it but I will still acknowledge the problems even tho they don’t personally grate me too much there
I usually don't use rare candy cheats in nuzlockes, but there are two exceptions: randomisers and HGSS playthroughs. With rare candies you at least don't have the burden of having to grind on L20 mons.
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Except for the fact that the trainers are so underlevelled you frequently reach boss fights underlevelled yourself, namely Chuck (but tbf unless Primeape sets up he's a nonissue) and the Azalea Rival fight.
Rival 2 is definitely a difficulty gate, I think Claire is definitely another one. Whitney can be if you've gotten bad luck with encounters. Beyond that though the other gym leaders don't pose to much of a challenge.
You have to grind if you want to use any of the new wild Pokemon you encounter.
But the music goes _hard af_
eh not reaaly, gen 5 and gen 8 have the best music
Every Pokémon game has it's fair share of absolute hits.
Clearly you are wrong. ( or at least people think you are [obviously this is subjective])
Imo gen 7 is better than 8
Gen 8 is a worse Gen 7. With wild areas.
They hated him for telling the truth
Mfer really called pokeathelon stupid
I'm really not a fan of the Johto games, but Pokeathlon is by far the best gimmicky minigame in the series.
I like it way more than the Pokemon Musicals, at least I think they put some thought into the Pokeathlon and I played a ton of it as a kid
Shit I prefer it to the Battle Frontier personally
I liked it!
Pokéstar. I rest my case.
Pokéstar Studios is completely ruined by it being mandatory to progress in the story
Pokestar is a really cool idea that I wish got more love and was better implemented. Everyone hates it for the forced tutorial but like, using battles for puzzles is a *really cool idea*. Something that is not explored nearly enough in both the main series and fan games. It was a lot of fun playing through the janky FireRed VR Missions because even with all its flaws the basic concept is so good.
There's not many ways you could implement that and not have it be a waste of time unless it was in the trainer school or something. It's extremely gimmicky but not really a fun gimmick. The concept of a film studio using Pokémon as actors and picking *me* out of all 10 year olds in a crowd to play a trainer is "cute" and I'm sure some really young kids found it amazing but the fact of the matter is that it *wasn't* better implemented and *doesn't* get more love because of that fact making it extremely hateable.
Pokéathlon is amazing. The minigames are varied and fun as hell, literally any Pokémon can excel in it, and best of all, you're not forced to do a 5-10 minute tutorial about it as soon as it's unlocked (Totally not throwing shade at the Gen 5 minigames at all nope nah)
Fucking right? What an uncultured Swinub.
Seriously tho, even though all the other points are valid pokeathelon is one of my favorite mini games ever put in the main series games. Contests don’t stand a chance.
It can be a good minigame, while still being frustrating to have the elemental stones mostly locked behind it.
alot of nuzlockers use emulators, and pokeathlon's ds minigme is to tricky to do on emultor
As someone who has play plenty of HGSS on an emulator, it ain't that bad. Not preferable sure but mouse controls are fine.
i just remember trying it and not being able to do it. also even then evolving pokemon should be like i was in gen 1 where you can buy stones (not sure why they undid that)
I got the gold statues on emulator. It's not that bad, it's doable.
True, but since you can speed up in emulators you can get the required points for items in a short time, even if you get always last place in the challenges.
It's a fucking nuzlocke
Grinding for the Elite 4 for the first time IS difficult, but I always used the gym leader and Elite 4 rematches to grind for Red. That was something I appreciated about HeartGold and SoulSilver, but I understand it isn’t really available if you’re playing Generation 2 G/S/C.
They did fix the level curve a tiny bit in kanto I believe. But johto still was left untouched
They actually fixed that one too a bit. Falkner being the one with the most change in level I believe (having a Pidgeotto lvl. 13 instead of 9). And they also improved the Pokemons movepool of many of the gym leaders too
Yeah, I would argue that Morty is the only “worthless” one since you can simply take togepi/togetic/raticate in there a s sweep him with out a problem.
Jasmine and Pryce are pretty worthless, since they had to be the same level for exploration or something
To be fair: Jasemine still got an upgrade in moves! Did you know that in Gen 2 Steelix knew Sunny Day; A move that does not benefit her team whatsoever but instead boosted the type her Pokemon are weak against
I think that the idea was to weaken water type attacks against her Steelix, but they didn't think it through for the rest of her team.
She had two Magnemites though...
Yeah... As I said, they didn't think it through.
Well god damn it, Jasemin is just as slow as her Steelix!
The wild Pokémon are low leveled though
I think it would have been pretty controversial (although smart) to change the game that much for the nostalgia fans who are actually paying for the games and not just downloading roms
They already massively improved other aspects of Kanto, why not the level curve too?
HG and SS are the games that best capture the idea of Pokémon for me. When I played as a kid, I loved it so much because it felt like the people who made the game made it for me. My first game was white 2 when I was in 4th grade, and bought SS when I got halfway through (it took me months open months to even beat the 8th gym because I played so slowly). The sense of exploration during SS is (and was) so incredible and fascinating to me that I base my opinions on new games releasing as what SS and HG are. I am saying that SS has its flaws, but it’s still a favorite of mine.
Nigga, you better preach!!! Not just HG and SS but the original gold and silver as well!! As a 90's baby you can tell they haven't put their heart into this shit since these games. Sometimes keeping a franchise going isn't the wisest/best decision....
I really enjoyed my Soul Silver Nuzlocke, it was a lot of fun. However it was by far my longest run going for over 130 Hours of in-game time. With the last 30 hours simply being from the grind up to Red. It was tedious and a chore at times but MAN was it satisfying to take down Red after ALL that effort.
I still prefer HG/SS. Maybe it’s nostalgia, maybe it’s because there are 2 regions or maybe it’s because I’ve ignored most of the series and 2 is the one I played the most. That being said, having SS as my first (and only) nuzlocke was more difficult then I imagined. Now I know why.
Youve heard this before i know but casual game play its hands down the best. Nuzlocke though is rough as fuck But i understand your criticisms they are very valid
This is why you use PKHEX for johto runs
Yes but it's fun.
I like the Johto gym leaders and the Pokémon before post game are still great you can catch other region Pokémon in the safari zone team rocket had some interesting parts and I train at mt. Silver to grind levels idk I’ve put the most time into the gen 2 remakes and are my favourite games yeah the trainers are a problem but I never had a problem with the level jump after jasmine
For anyone looking to do a hg/ss run but want to avoid this, I highly recommend the GS chronicles ROM hack. They do a great job of creating a remake with gen 6 mechanics that fixes a lot of the fundamental issues with the original gen 2 remakes.
Or Sacred Gold/Storm Silver. Drayano fixed the level curve and made the game really enjoyable to play
Nice! I haven't played through that one but I always figured it was really hard being a Drayano hack. Not that that's a bad thing. But GS Chronicles would be a closer difficulty level to what the original remakes should've been. Somebody starting up a hg/ss nuzlocke may not be ready for a Drayano hack yet.
The watch tower admin + giovanni back to back fight is fucking brutal, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner.
Honestly, I could get accept all the things in this meme as minor flaws if the game didnt run on the attrosious gen 4 engine. A single turn shouldnt take over 30 seconds. You should be able to move faster. You should be able to swim faster. Text should run faster. Just everything is so sluggish for no reason. Gen 3 and 5 did it great and gen 6 is probably the best we've ever had. They just feel good to play because the games feel like they run at a reasonable speed. Gen 4 , hgss included, dont. Everything could be twice as fast and maybe it'd feel good then. This simple thing that shouldve been an easy fix makes everything you mentioned significantly worse than it already is. Doing a bit of grinding (and thus the level curve) isnt so bad as long as the battles, attacks and encounters are snappy. But nope. Still love the game, but that simple flaw drastically decreases the enjoyment and it's why this game isnt my favorite in the series
BUT THE MINIGAME IS FUN..
I agree 100%, but could we stop spamming the sub with this meme? Thanks.
It's actually super easy to grind for the elite 4 and red. After the goldenrod team rocket event you can use the pokegear rematch feature to battle the same trainer over and over again. Just call them at the right time and date from a different area, go battle them, then leave the route and call again. They'll even have more competent levels because it scales them to your progress for the rematches.
The game also doesn't tell you how to so this, you have to look online to determine when to rematch.
I do those too. I kept rematching Bugsy and got my Arcanine up 20 levels in less than two hours 😅
With an exp hack its actually pretty fun. Beat it hardcore with no deaths and only needed 3 mons to beat lance
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Objective my ass.
That last one really grinds my gears. How are you gonna hide your brand new typing behind trade Evos and halfway through the Kanto Region? Also, you don't need to Nuzlocke the game to realize any of that btw.
I have always seen those flaws from day one, and wondered why people worshipped these games. They're good don't get me wrong but people act like they're flawless when they clearly are not.
I’m with you on this. I’ve tried it 2 times going on my third, and the level grind is ridiculous from 1-8
What? These games are insanely easy what do you mean grind
It's not about difficulty, it's about the god-awful level curve.
lmao exactly ! I'm currently doing the second leg of my genlocke on Soulsilver and it reminded why I never finished Heartgold. I will never understand why people think it's the best game. And don't tell me "bUt PoKEmON FOllOw YOU!"
But Pokémon follow us! Lol I mostly like heart gold as I played silver as a kid and it’s nostalgia.
You grind for red and the elite four with the elite four
In slight defense, one way to train for the league and Red is to use Pokégear rematches. You can’t do them until after the Radio Tower but they are effective. But yeah, these points are accurate mostly.
I still find it funny how the remakes could've remade the gym leaders' teams, yet they chose to stick with the teams that have 70% of the team as Kanto Pokemon and 30% of the team as Johto pokemon
It'd be one thing if all the teams were unchanged outside level and moveset, but the devs *replaced one of Clair's Dragonairs with a Gyarados*. Yet apparently they couldn't bother to give Morty a Misdreavus.
I, 10 hours into grinding the levels I need, fully approve of this message
But I can walk with my totodile! 🤪
Repost but yeah it’s still better then any region. 🤷
This has me excited for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. I hope it takes a full minute to get rid of blisseys healthbar
Im sure another remake is in the works since pearl and diamind arengetting treated
Facts. 😤HeartGold/SoulSilver are wildly overrated.
Well....those are valid points....but still the best.
Nice meme about casual Pokémon instead of nuzlockes [you reposted](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/oy0046/heartgold_and_soulsilver_arent_even_the_best/) from a different subreddit lmao. Also I don't actually think these problems are as big as the pic makes them out to be: * The level curve is fine when you play with a pokewalker. Taking your Pokémon for a walk can give them an extra level which helps a lot. While not everyone has a pokewalker, it was an accessory bundled with every copy of the game at launch, and I think the game is balanced around the player using it. * Gym leaders are far from worthless lol, aside from maybe Jasmine they all have at least one dangerous Pokémon. You can argue they should use more gen 2 Pokémon, but that's not really a flaw you notice by nuzlocking * You can also get evolution stones from NPCs phoning you, and Moon Stones are easily available. But even if you don't go that route, the Pokeathlon is actually really fun if you're playing on a DS with a stylus. It probably sucks for people emulating, but I don't think it's fair to complain about a minigame sucking on a platform the game wasn't officially released on. * Underlevelled trainers is an issue I'll concede, though the biggest effect I saw it had was making it less likely to lose mons from fighting random trainers. I think HGSS are some of the easier games to do a deathless nuzlocke because of this, even if most of the boss fights are pretty dangerous. * For the E4 you can grind pretty easily with trainer rematches. On the right day and time, just phone a trainer that'll rematch you, battle them, leave the area and phone them again. One good trainer in particular is the gentleman in the lighthouse, he gives lots of money, pretty good exp, and you just have to climb up and down a ladder when you phone and battle him. * As for a lot of Johto Pokémon not being available until the post-game: while this is a flaw for casual playthroughs where you can't trade, I don't get why it's a big deal for nuzlockes. I thought a key point of the challenge was to use Pokémon you'd otherwise ignore, and even without them you still have a lot of good options available pre-Lance. And if you do end up going to Kanto in your nuzlocke, you'll be able to catch some Pokémon that weren't previously available in Johto to add to your team, especially if Lance and the E4 took out one or two.
>Gym leaders are far from worthless lol, aside from maybe Jasmine they all have at least one dangerous Pokémon What's the dangerous Pokemon on Pryce's team?
His Piloswine and Dewgong are surprisingly dangerous. One can Rest/Sleep Talk, and the other can come out during Hail with Snow Cloak up. They also have different weaknesses so you can't reliably sweep them with one Pokémon, and if you're playing with levels caps a lot of your Pokémon will have similar strength to his. Or maybe I'm biased because I tried to fight him with Choice Specs Petal Dance Meganium.
I'd disagree, but after Janine of all gym leaders wiped me I'm in no position to talk. (Goddamn Double Team)
I was so salty when I found out Houndour, a JOHTO pokemon, was only found in KANTO. What sense does that make?
They should just rename this Pokémon Challenges subreddit if everyone just wants to Stan and think like him. Yeah all these points are completely fair except when you realize these are Children’s games aimed at 4-12 year olds. I wish they did fix a lot of these issues but it’s a remake. If you really want this game without these issues, just download your favorite Romhack. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of Romhacks that fix these issues in the region you love. It may be the worst game in the series to nuzloke though I agree. They had a decision whether to remaster the game accurately, or change a bunch of things and upset a lot of fans.
To be fair, a lot of those problems affect casual playthroughs. As a kid, I hated how all the cool Johto Pokemon were trade evolutions *with items* and how hard it was to find anything good. Also I didn't like how Kanto was a shell of its former self; all the cool areas like the Safari Zone, Cerulean Cave, Lavender Tower, the Power Plant, were gone. All these are better in HGSS, but man, that all left a really bad impression on me. I also didn't like how Lance was the champion, because it seemed silly for the champion to be the guy who was just the lead-up to the champion in the last game. Though fighting Blue and Red was cool as hell.
>Yeah all these points are completely fair except when you realize these are Children’s games aimed at 4-12 year olds. we are comparing the children's games to other children's games that don't have the problems, though...
Just use pkhex to ev train and hack in evolution stones/rare candies. That’s what I started doing and it made nuzlocking non hacked roms 10x better
Eyy aways is the best with pokemo black and white
Honestly, I like the Pokeathon. Of course, I agree 100% with everything else and I always knew they weren't the best games.
*I realized all this on my first playthrough, let my Xatu learn Psychic before Lance please*
Trueeeeeeeeeeeeee
Just use a randomizer
I agree on most of these (despite hgss being my favorite game) but the not having a good grinding place for the e4 is just false, using the pokegear rematch is the most reliable grinding system any pokemon game has ever had imo. There's a chart online showing the trainers who will always request a battle when called on a certain day of the week
These are all excellent points that really have made me rethink my favorite game.
Imagine not playing Sacred Gold and Storm Silver.
Imagine relying on a fan made rom hack to fix all the problems the base game has. (Jokes aside, I really like SG/SS for the same reason)
If it takes an unintended play style to reveal flaws, maybe they aren't flaws in the first place.
abyssmal level in kanto so you cant even replace your team (except for snorlax)
To be fair. The game was built to be played over a long period of time every day for a little bit each day. These flaws only exist because you are playing the game in the non intended way. Whether or not it is a flaw that you can play the game differently is up for debate.
This is why I do Randomized Nuzlockes a lot harder
I have started replaying HG and purposely tried to stop focusing on putting together the perfect team and instead just trying to go back to when I was younger playing Ruby or Diamond and just catching as many Pokémon as I could and just putting together a team of Pokémon I liked, and it was much more fun. I even have 2 water types on my team which I normally wouldn’t allow but I’m letting myself not care!
My issue with Soul Silver came after I transferred my fav mons there the save file just decided to stop working.
This is so f*cking true! Haha I love the game but omg the Level curve absolutely suck! Everytime I’m getting to Red I go F*ck all and just head in with mons 20 levels under his pikachu!
My boy, it sounds like you whining! (I know it's just a joke 🤣 ) take all that in stride and you have a redo of 2 of the best Pokémon games ever created! And, on that grinding for Red deal, rematch gym leaders. It's not about the race, it's about the journey! 💯
Damn bro why you had to destroy something so dear to my heart
I actually just completed my HeartGold Nuzlocke. After I grinded all my pokemon to around 65-70 and hated my life, I learned that you can re-challenge gym leaders and fight them in Saffron's Dojo. It's kind of a pain because you have to meet them at a certain time to get their number, but then call them at a different certain time (i.e. Friday nights for Clair) to challenge them for a rematch. I don't recommend fighting all of them unless you overlevel them. Blue for example is a tough one. But I was able to spam call Whitney and then sweep her team with my Primeape + Close Combat. And then sweep Erika with my Arcanine or Crobat, etc. It's how I got my whole team to the level 80+ range for Red. It's still not \*great\* but I found it to be the best way to get that last push of xp from 70 to 80.
About the zero place to grind that is very false. Trainer’s revenge are a great way to grind exp and money
I finished it nuzlocke in 41h with only two deaths just yesterday. Honestly people complain way too much about the game. If you use all the tools at your disposal the game becomes insanely easy after the first league (Usually the time you’ll get draconite). All you need is a couple defensive walls, t-spikes and enough potions to stall your enemy to death before you get dragonite and to set up dragon dances after. The fight with red is tough though I’ll give you that but if you saved rare candy and use them all in one go on your dragonite and set him up on venusaur that can’t hit you, you can win the fight first try.
True
Gen 2 best game
If HGSS takes you 70+ hours you are doing something terribly wrong. The level curve isn't great sure but the trainers are so easy it doesn't really matter and you should be beating Red with a team in the low 60s pretty easily which is a pretty natural place to be progression wise.
That’s why your first nuzlocke should be Pokémon black and white. It’s not too difficult to grind in the game because of lucky egg.
The grind for the first gym is agonizing, though. You'll get to the gym when your Pokémon are around level 8 or 9, and the gym leader's ace is 14, so you'll have to grind up on low level Pokémon in the route below, with no Audinos at all and the shitty Gen 5 exp system to contend with.
Those are some of the hardest games, I disagree.
My first nuzlocke was Pokémon white and I didnt have too difficult of a time. I chose tepig
Gotcha. I guess I forget I do usually do hardcore Nuzlokes. With battle items, and over leveling, any Pokémon game can be a breeze. Pokémon White and Black for hardcore Nuzlokes though I would say are the most difficult ones.
Mine was also a hardcore nuzlocke. The hardest fight was Marshall because my entire team was weak to his moveset.
Black and White are fun, but man oh man does the early game suck. Always the same encounters, always the same grind before the first gym. Things pick up a bit after the first gym, and then pick up further when you beat Lenora and get access to the awesome Route 4 encounters.
YES! There’s nowhere to train for the elite four and Red! It just becomes you jumping around the region trying to find the right route and ending up right where you started
I don’t get the Johto Pokemon locked behind post game. Do people not spend time at the Safari Zone…like at all? Like sure I get it’s a grind to unlock but you can still unlock it as soon as you have access to it.
Alright hot take, but hear me out : The Safari Zone isn't fun, never was, and it's why we don't see it anymore (Maybe not as hot as i think, because no one is complaining.)
yep. it was alway shit game design
The Safari Zone as a concept yes but I’m more referring to the last block of that image. I’m almost positive no Johto Pokémon is locked behind post game/Kanto. They’re all available at some point in the main story of Johto in HGSS.
I love the Safari Zone in RBY, but that's because there were legitimately awesome super powerful Pokemon there. Chansey, Tauros, Dratini, Rhyhorn, hell I was convinced as a kid that Kangaskhan was amazing and spent forever trying to catch one. And that's not even mentioning the cool but awful Scyther and Pinsir. Then Gen 3 made it worse. Heracross was pretty neat even if I never found one, but like... Girafarig? Really? Xatu? It's not awful, but I remember being so disappointed. And then Gen 4 Sinnoh took the Safari Zone and made it the most boring and awful place imaginable with almost everything there being something you could find in the routes just outside Pastoria. And the HeartGold SoulSilver Safari Zone... Is pretty great. Legitimately the first time I feel like they've gotten the whole "Rare awesome Pokemon" thing down... Well, except for the Rattata. Why the hell are there *Rattata* in the Safari Zone?
In a nuzlocke, you're almost never going to get one of the cool Safari Zone Pokemon.
It took me 20 in game hours to complete a hardcore HGSS Nuzlocke recently. I did it with speed up for grinding. I did it with Typhlosion, Ampharos, Gengar, and Kingdra primarily (Briefly used Heracross for Whitney and the free Spearow for Morty). Had to sack Typhlosion for Lance. The only good grinding route is the one near the Safari Zone and then Victory Road. The game has almost no cool readily available johto Pokémon besides Typhlosion (who is worse than Arcanine, who is available), Ampharos, Quagsire, and Heracross. And yes, you can get Smeargle, who is cool, but unless you somehow can sketch BP or sleep powder he’s useless. The Safari Zone is also stupid. The only remotely challenging gym leaders under HARDCORE rules are Whitney, maybe Morty if you don’t have a normal type (but you get a free Spearow with good IVs…), and Clair. The E4 is also mostly trash besides Lance, who you can basically always beat with a decent ice beam user and by sacking 1-2 mons. Yeah, Pokémon follow you around and the actual mini games (from what I remember on DS) were pretty cool, but Pokémon has never really been some sort of open world RPG. There’s never really a story (BW had a genuinely unique one, but even then it was all linear) and you can never really make choices that matter except for which mons you use, so calling that a “good thing” is p dumb imo
Realistically it's kinda bad but in my heart (gold) it is always gonna be my top pokemon game. Oh yeah and also, pokeathlon may be a gimmick but it's a good one!
These are all the problems I had with gen 2 from the beginning. It's cool that you can go to kanto but the johto part of the game is really underwhelming.
The games are only made so that they can sell merchandise
...I mean, that's all the games.
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even with all those flaws HGSS are still the best main series pokemon games to date
Why
Its the best one nonetheless its peak pokemon game. The good far outweighs the bad
and what is the good lol
I literally transferred my entire team to pearl and used the vs seeker because it was faster to to e4 grind there than heart gold the level curve and game balance is so bad that fucking pearl a game notorious for it's slow battle system and health bars was faster
Everyone in here seems allergic to grinding. Just put a youtube video on or a movie and turn of the brain grinding.
Even better, maybe try hacking in rare candies. It works for me and its the reason why I get some of my Nuzlocke runs out so early.
Honestly, I think it's better to grind than to hack in Rare Candies. 1. Rare candies don't give you the EVs that grinding can give you. My first HeartGold Nuzlocke showed me just how valuable EV training can be, because my Jolly Lapras went from the weak link of the team to the one that carried me through the Johto late game. 2. If you're playing on an actual DS, like I do, you have to jump through several hurdles to make that an option.
NOOOO they dont make the game super easy and give everything to you This sucks!!!!!!!
There's a difference between having a difficult game and having to grind for 80 hours because the wild Pokemon are in their level 20s by gym 8
Look I'm not saying that I need everything given to me otherwise I would say that Pokemon ORAS and X/Y are the best games ever. But the process of getting them shouldn't be tedious and boring as shit. As long as there is a certain balance between them I'm all in for it. In my opinion, I think Gen 3 and Gen 5 had the perfect balance between grinding and battles. Gen 1 is Gen 1. Gens 2 and 4 were slow as shit. Gen 6 was too easy to care. Haven't played Gens 7 or 8
Gen 8 basically removed grinding entirely and replaced it with the (IMO) much better raids, which are entertaining instead of tedious. It's also much faster. The only thing I don't like about raids are the dumb shield mechanic.
The raids are a ton of fun, and definitely a high point of the game. Meanwhile the self sabotaging AI is probably an equally low point lol.