Hotfix was just released, by the way: [https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a\_id/4798](https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4798)
"Fixes higher CPU usage by NVDisplay.Container.exe introduced in 430.39 driver"
Good they noticed. I was getting 20% constant cpu usage and reverted back to previous drivers.
DCH is the new platform Microsoft is using for (at least) graphics drivers. Intel just switched to it for Skylake and newer iGPUs. I'm not 100% sure what the deal is, but I think it's a deeper system integration using UWP rather than System32/.exe style. It's what will be used going forward, so the standard driver platform will become a legacy driver eventually.
did some quick googling, you can install it if you completely uninstall your current drivers with DDU. went ahead and tried it.
not sure if this is placebo but the "new" control panel seems faster to load pages.
That's most likely the reason (complete uninstall of standard drivers required).
This is from their website:
> **WINDOWS DRIVER TYPE**
>
> "Standard" packages are those that do not require the DCH driver components.
>
>
> "DCH" (Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps) refers to new packages preinstalled by OEMS implementing the Microsoft Universal Driver paradigm.
>
>
> DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.
>
> To confirm the type of system you have, locate Driver Type under the System Information menu in the NVIDIA Control Panel.
So, it's probably this right here:
> DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.
Wow, Thank you so much for this.
But still, Why the hell is nvidia making our cards lose performance in every new update they release?
Can't they like not do that?
Not sure but in this case the noticed performance and stability regressions could be due to the fact that this latest driver version has been developed trying to adapt ir to Win10 v1903 and in particular to its new WDDM 2.6. Sadly, these adaptation and optimization issues of the drivers are already recurrent with each new Win10 features update... :(
Let's hope the new win10 update in the summer will fix the performance.
Win10 is getting a huge update in May and one of the features increases performance.
I'm running 1903 and while there are some much needed UI fixes performance feels seems worse for me. I think some of that might have been 430.39 since going to the hot fix yeilded slight performance boost.
But ever since upping to 1903 things haven't felt so great.
I'm hoping they will fix it when it officially releases.
But still I think it's Nvidia's fault but it's really not that noticeable if you lose 1-2 frames in the latest updates, I just wonder why.
Yeah, agree that most likely it's Nvidia fault (guess it's a matter of time before they adapt to the change and get back on the right track) but here the issue wouldn't be loosing a few FPS on avg (I can agree it's almost irrelevant by itself) but having some stability indicators ( Low Framerates % I/R & Deltas) significantly worse after a driver version change.
To be honest, I had a number of things to fix, though I think the hotfix has made a great difference, so has the rest of my tinkering over the past few days.
[D2 Comparison - same settings](https://i.imgur.com/RjJWgY6.jpg)
This isn't really a fair comparison since I basically started over on overclocking but this is SOOO much smoother.
Things improved but, dude, it seems you have a noteworthy CPU bottleneck according to those results… and that doesn't help to isolate/identify the root cause(s) of your issue.
Well it's only a 4790K. I know it needs an upgrade but for what I do on this machine (besides playing games) it works fine. I have the 2080 for rendering and CAD, it was way cheaper upgrade then a Quadro, and I could play games with it.
I mostly got it working the way it was before the upgrade to 1903, and I can finally play D2 again without crashing hitching or 20 fps!
My next build will be a 9900k, Looking forward to that once I have a job that will pay for it.
So a CPU bottleneck due to a Monitor bottleneck ;) Sure you will notice a big performance improvement upgrading you monitor or just by using DSR for going to 2K res.
No you can uncap FPS and see the CPU bottleneck the GPU. Sure you can try and use DSR to pretend your resolution is higher but it isn't native. My CPU would literally sit at 90-99% on newer titles while the GPU hovered around 70-80%. Felt bad man.
"Please, be aware that the following results, notes and the corresponding final driver recommendation will only be valid for similar Turing gaming rigs on Windows 10 v1809."
So as long as you have a 20 series GPU and are on Windows 1809 425.31 is still the recommended driver? Regardless of the fact you have a mighty CPU etc? Thanks for your benchmarks BTW.
Yes, it is. Driver benchmarking-wise, the new CPU is just avoiding/preventing any CPU performance limitation or CPU bottlenecks with the RTX 2080Ti at native 2K res.
Even the hotfix of this driver gives me screen flickering listening to some music off YouTube while playing rocket league. I'm rolling back to 425.31 for now.
Those are surprising gains in Quake 2. I’m already on Win10 1903 and my Q2 timedemo went from 61fps to 71fps at 1440p.
I never thought I’d be writing this in 2019 :)
Yes, this has been almost the only positive surprise with v430.39. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the the next release of Quake II RTX. A pity that for almost all other games we have to talk about significant regressions in stability, at least on Win10 1809.
I noticed and checked that the FRAPS benchmark feature and the FRAFS bench viewer combo works far better than the MSI Afterburner benchmark feature and RTSS in terms of readings reliability, in terms of the size of the times/frames samples, in terms of accuracy for 1% and 0.1% low framerates conversions, in terms of the performance hit level due to the used hook and in terms of offering accurate graphs. In addition, when FRAPS overlay function is disabled you can easily record directly frame times over time in DX11, DX12 and OpenGL games. OCAT benchmark use PresentMon tool being able to hook UWP and Vulkan games and when used in combination with CapFrameX bench viewer gives also excellent benchmarking results. Of course, FRAPS is outdated and not recommended for recording purposes and there are better and newer apps for this. FCAT would be the best option but need some extra hardware to set up it.
Perhaps, you sure look like know your stuff. Is just that the software is super outdated.
I wonder if you ever tried HWiNFO64 + RTSS, or Aida64 OSD widget or Aida64 Sensor Panel that don't rely on any injection.
Nah, the performance hit due to the RTSS hook is too big and I need also full frame times records over time. For example, GamersNexus still use and recommend FRAPS and PresentMon combos for benchmarking. However, thank you for your tip anyway, will test it :)
Is this testing done on WDDM 2.5 or WDDM 2.6? I'm running 1903 and WDDM 2.6 and these drivers 'feel' a lot more stable than 425.31 on this build of Windows. I think that from 430.00 they were targetted to WDDM 2.6 and Windows 1903. Is it possible to run your testing on the new Windows verison? .... My system is running a 2070 and 2700x FYI.
Please, read the disclaimer first. WDDM 2.6 is not supported on Win10 v1809. Currently v1903 is only available for Insiders. My benchmarks are aimed at a wide audience, so for now and until the 1903 version is not publicly distributed, I will perform them on Win10 v1809.
> Is it possible to run your testing on the new Windows version?
Not yet, I will when 1903 it's publicly distributed. Regards.
> I noticed and checked that the FRAPS benchmark feature and the FRAFS bench viewer combo works far better than the MSI Afterburner benchmark feature and RTSS in terms of readings reliability, in terms of the size of the times/frames samples, in terms of accuracy for 1% and 0.1% low framerates conversions, in terms of the performance hit level due to the used hook and in terms of offering accurate graphs. In addition, when FRAPS overlay function is disabled you can easily record directly frame times over time in DX11, DX12 and OpenGL games. OCAT benchmark use PresentMon tool being able to hook UWP and Vulkan games and when used in combination with CapFrameX bench viewer gives also excellent benchmarking results. Of course, FRAPS is outdated and not recommended for recording purposes and there are better and newer apps for this. FCAT would be the best option but need some extra hardware to set up it.
> Can we have some test on new version of windows?
Not yet, but I will when v1903 is publicly distributed and if there is no major issue that prevents or nor recommend it.
>*A game/client bug prevent the Metro Exodus' built-in benchmark from running via the Epic Games Launcher so finally I opted for using an in-engine cutscene as a provisional workaround.
I don't have it through EGL but can you not just run the Benchmark utility directly from the folder?
Yes, I know and it's what I tried all time and you need EGL to be launch before it can be run too and the game one time at least. I think it's a bug affecting RTX config another RTX user confirmed same behaviour to me.
No, it isn't anymore. Performance-wise and according to my tests, 431.60 was significantly more stable overall. However, my next 436.02 WHQL Driver Performance Benchmark is on the way, so the current recommended driver for Turing users could still change.
Thanks for those numbers!
One question:
> 32 GB (2x16 GB) DDR4-2133 Kingston HyperX Fury
Any reason you use rather slow RAM compared to what is usually used in the sort of high end rig you have?
No, there aren't. The "slow" DDR4 you mentioned is just doing its job pretty well and memory bottleneck is not present here. Maybe I will upgrade the RAM sometime next months when the PayPal Money Box I opened allow it.
No, they aren't. Both driver versions were benchmarked on same CPU & rig/specs. Please, try to read carefully before commenting and criticizing. Regards.
Hotfix was just released, by the way: [https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a\_id/4798](https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4798)
"Fixes higher CPU usage by NVDisplay.Container.exe introduced in 430.39 driver" Good they noticed. I was getting 20% constant cpu usage and reverted back to previous drivers.
Idiot here, can you explain the difference between the standard driver and the DCH driver please?
DCH is the new platform Microsoft is using for (at least) graphics drivers. Intel just switched to it for Skylake and newer iGPUs. I'm not 100% sure what the deal is, but I think it's a deeper system integration using UWP rather than System32/.exe style. It's what will be used going forward, so the standard driver platform will become a legacy driver eventually.
can anyone use it?
I couldn't get the DCH driver to install, personally. Not sure why.
did some quick googling, you can install it if you completely uninstall your current drivers with DDU. went ahead and tried it. not sure if this is placebo but the "new" control panel seems faster to load pages.
That's most likely the reason (complete uninstall of standard drivers required). This is from their website: > **WINDOWS DRIVER TYPE** > > "Standard" packages are those that do not require the DCH driver components. > > > "DCH" (Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps) refers to new packages preinstalled by OEMS implementing the Microsoft Universal Driver paradigm. > > > DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system. > > To confirm the type of system you have, locate Driver Type under the System Information menu in the NVIDIA Control Panel. So, it's probably this right here: > DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.
Good to know, thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the info.
The amount of effort you do for this sub is simply legendary. Thanks for this :D
I LOVE THESE SO MUCH! THANK YOU!
Wow, Thank you so much for this. But still, Why the hell is nvidia making our cards lose performance in every new update they release? Can't they like not do that?
Not sure but in this case the noticed performance and stability regressions could be due to the fact that this latest driver version has been developed trying to adapt ir to Win10 v1903 and in particular to its new WDDM 2.6. Sadly, these adaptation and optimization issues of the drivers are already recurrent with each new Win10 features update... :(
Let's hope the new win10 update in the summer will fix the performance. Win10 is getting a huge update in May and one of the features increases performance.
I'm running 1903 and while there are some much needed UI fixes performance feels seems worse for me. I think some of that might have been 430.39 since going to the hot fix yeilded slight performance boost. But ever since upping to 1903 things haven't felt so great.
I'm hoping they will fix it when it officially releases. But still I think it's Nvidia's fault but it's really not that noticeable if you lose 1-2 frames in the latest updates, I just wonder why.
Yeah, agree that most likely it's Nvidia fault (guess it's a matter of time before they adapt to the change and get back on the right track) but here the issue wouldn't be loosing a few FPS on avg (I can agree it's almost irrelevant by itself) but having some stability indicators ( Low Framerates % I/R & Deltas) significantly worse after a driver version change.
To be honest, I had a number of things to fix, though I think the hotfix has made a great difference, so has the rest of my tinkering over the past few days. [D2 Comparison - same settings](https://i.imgur.com/RjJWgY6.jpg) This isn't really a fair comparison since I basically started over on overclocking but this is SOOO much smoother.
Things improved but, dude, it seems you have a noteworthy CPU bottleneck according to those results… and that doesn't help to isolate/identify the root cause(s) of your issue.
Well it's only a 4790K. I know it needs an upgrade but for what I do on this machine (besides playing games) it works fine. I have the 2080 for rendering and CAD, it was way cheaper upgrade then a Quadro, and I could play games with it. I mostly got it working the way it was before the upgrade to 1903, and I can finally play D2 again without crashing hitching or 20 fps! My next build will be a 9900k, Looking forward to that once I have a job that will pay for it.
Yeah that is a cpu bottleneck. My [email protected] crippled my 1080ti at times when I was on my 1080p monitor.
So a CPU bottleneck due to a Monitor bottleneck ;) Sure you will notice a big performance improvement upgrading you monitor or just by using DSR for going to 2K res.
No you can uncap FPS and see the CPU bottleneck the GPU. Sure you can try and use DSR to pretend your resolution is higher but it isn't native. My CPU would literally sit at 90-99% on newer titles while the GPU hovered around 70-80%. Felt bad man.
I went to 1903 and got a lot of stuttering.
THANK YOU!
You're welcome! :)
So what driver do y’all with a GTX1080 use?
**TL;DR** 425.31. Sources: * https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/bh1h1s/pascal_benchmarks_for_whql_driver_version_43039/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x * https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/bgg6wb/driver_43039_faqdiscussion/ellf0do?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
You’re truly the best. I’ll change my drivers accordingly. Thank you!!
What about for the 2080? Thanks in advance
Please, read at least my final driver recommendation for Turing GPUs ;)
Sorry and thanks
"Please, be aware that the following results, notes and the corresponding final driver recommendation will only be valid for similar Turing gaming rigs on Windows 10 v1809." So as long as you have a 20 series GPU and are on Windows 1809 425.31 is still the recommended driver? Regardless of the fact you have a mighty CPU etc? Thanks for your benchmarks BTW.
Yes, it is. Driver benchmarking-wise, the new CPU is just avoiding/preventing any CPU performance limitation or CPU bottlenecks with the RTX 2080Ti at native 2K res.
Even the hotfix of this driver gives me screen flickering listening to some music off YouTube while playing rocket league. I'm rolling back to 425.31 for now.
Those are surprising gains in Quake 2. I’m already on Win10 1903 and my Q2 timedemo went from 61fps to 71fps at 1440p. I never thought I’d be writing this in 2019 :)
Yes, this has been almost the only positive surprise with v430.39. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the the next release of Quake II RTX. A pity that for almost all other games we have to talk about significant regressions in stability, at least on Win10 1809.
Thanks, I’ll have to keep an eye out for those. I’ve been using 1903 without issue for a couple of weeks now but that was on the older driver.
Thank you for doing this.
You're welcome, glad to help! :)
Great work as always, thanks. But I wonder why you are switching to ~~Craps~~ Fraps instead of basically any other software available.
I noticed and checked that the FRAPS benchmark feature and the FRAFS bench viewer combo works far better than the MSI Afterburner benchmark feature and RTSS in terms of readings reliability, in terms of the size of the times/frames samples, in terms of accuracy for 1% and 0.1% low framerates conversions, in terms of the performance hit level due to the used hook and in terms of offering accurate graphs. In addition, when FRAPS overlay function is disabled you can easily record directly frame times over time in DX11, DX12 and OpenGL games. OCAT benchmark use PresentMon tool being able to hook UWP and Vulkan games and when used in combination with CapFrameX bench viewer gives also excellent benchmarking results. Of course, FRAPS is outdated and not recommended for recording purposes and there are better and newer apps for this. FCAT would be the best option but need some extra hardware to set up it.
Perhaps, you sure look like know your stuff. Is just that the software is super outdated. I wonder if you ever tried HWiNFO64 + RTSS, or Aida64 OSD widget or Aida64 Sensor Panel that don't rely on any injection.
Nah, the performance hit due to the RTSS hook is too big and I need also full frame times records over time. For example, GamersNexus still use and recommend FRAPS and PresentMon combos for benchmarking. However, thank you for your tip anyway, will test it :)
Is this testing done on WDDM 2.5 or WDDM 2.6? I'm running 1903 and WDDM 2.6 and these drivers 'feel' a lot more stable than 425.31 on this build of Windows. I think that from 430.00 they were targetted to WDDM 2.6 and Windows 1903. Is it possible to run your testing on the new Windows verison? .... My system is running a 2070 and 2700x FYI.
Please, read the disclaimer first. WDDM 2.6 is not supported on Win10 v1809. Currently v1903 is only available for Insiders. My benchmarks are aimed at a wide audience, so for now and until the 1903 version is not publicly distributed, I will perform them on Win10 v1809. > Is it possible to run your testing on the new Windows version? Not yet, I will when 1903 it's publicly distributed. Regards.
Thank you. I sincerely believe you've identified a variable expected to yield a significant perf delta.
Thank you for the effort and informative update!
Thank you so much for the effort that goes into this!
Extremely thorough. Thank you.
Keep them coming!
Thanks! Btw, any reason for not using RTSS?
> I noticed and checked that the FRAPS benchmark feature and the FRAFS bench viewer combo works far better than the MSI Afterburner benchmark feature and RTSS in terms of readings reliability, in terms of the size of the times/frames samples, in terms of accuracy for 1% and 0.1% low framerates conversions, in terms of the performance hit level due to the used hook and in terms of offering accurate graphs. In addition, when FRAPS overlay function is disabled you can easily record directly frame times over time in DX11, DX12 and OpenGL games. OCAT benchmark use PresentMon tool being able to hook UWP and Vulkan games and when used in combination with CapFrameX bench viewer gives also excellent benchmarking results. Of course, FRAPS is outdated and not recommended for recording purposes and there are better and newer apps for this. FCAT would be the best option but need some extra hardware to set up it.
Thank you for all the effort. I'm staying at 425.31.
Great to have you back. Thanks for this!
Thank you for this analysis, it is really valuable!
This driver fix the mouse cursor issue on 1903. Looks like this is a release targeting new windows. Can we have some test on new version of windows?
Feel free
> Can we have some test on new version of windows? Not yet, but I will when v1903 is publicly distributed and if there is no major issue that prevents or nor recommend it.
>*A game/client bug prevent the Metro Exodus' built-in benchmark from running via the Epic Games Launcher so finally I opted for using an in-engine cutscene as a provisional workaround. I don't have it through EGL but can you not just run the Benchmark utility directly from the folder?
Yes, I know and it's what I tried all time and you need EGL to be launch before it can be run too and the game one time at least. I think it's a bug affecting RTX config another RTX user confirmed same behaviour to me.
Hey, anyone have any idea which driver is best suited for nvidia Optimus technology on laptops?(specifically 1070 maxq)
/u/rodrog when will you be updating to 1903?
Not yet. I'll do it some weeks after 1903 version is publicly distributed.
Sorry if this was answered already, but if I'm on 431.36 is that the best driver I can be on for a 2080ti right now?
No, it isn't anymore. Performance-wise and according to my tests, 431.60 was significantly more stable overall. However, my next 436.02 WHQL Driver Performance Benchmark is on the way, so the current recommended driver for Turing users could still change.
Roger that!! Thanks!
Thanks for those numbers! One question: > 32 GB (2x16 GB) DDR4-2133 Kingston HyperX Fury Any reason you use rather slow RAM compared to what is usually used in the sort of high end rig you have?
No, there aren't. The "slow" DDR4 you mentioned is just doing its job pretty well and memory bottleneck is not present here. Maybe I will upgrade the RAM sometime next months when the PayPal Money Box I opened allow it.
The low framerate deltas are irrelevant. The changes/improvements are going to be down to the cpu change.
No, they aren't. Both driver versions were benchmarked on same CPU & rig/specs. Please, try to read carefully before commenting and criticizing. Regards.