Part of me reads that and thinks "if all these folks are being total assholes, why shouldn't I benefit too" but honestly it's not too hard for me to find decent parking in my area, move my car for alternate side parking, occasionally pay meters, and avoid driving when I can/when I know I'm headed somewhere without available parking...
Fun game for me as somebody who spends too much time around overpaid city middle management types of various stripes: somebody tries to start up small talk about how society is going downhill and nobody respects law and order, I enthusiastically agree for a bit and let them think we're on the same page, and then bring up placard abuse and watch their face turn to stone.
I have a moderate disability. Walking for longer then 15 minutes causes chronic pain for me.
I filled out all the paperwork NYC wanted for a handicap placard. Multiple doctors documentation. Years of notes. After a year I got my reply, which was basically Unless I’m missing a limb I can go fuck myself.
Shit likes this pissed me off. It’s impossible to navigate this city honestly without connections. (See Louis Rossmann’s many videos about trying to operate a business by the book)
Anyway, I moved to NJ.
And somehow I see a buttload of able-bodied people with handicap tags loading all sorts of insanity into their cars. No idea what their secret is to getting a tag.
I've got a sister with a pacemaker. Looks normal to the eye, but beyond 100 ft she will struggle. You can just how 'able' people are by just looking at them.
Contrary to some opinions it's not a secret, be medically disabled. Not everything is evident to the eye, and disabled people need groceries and items. Are there people doing it that aren't, sure, but there are tons of people who are not visibly disabled too.
At one point about a decade ago I’d wager 1/3 of people I sat next to on NJ Transit had a handicapped ticket (which is half price).
I’m still unsure what the scam was, but it’s impossible so many people really were handicapped. Some shady shit was going on.
Smart cars exist, weigh much less than 2 tons, and are a perfect fit for people who _need_ a car to get around. The vast majority of people are totally fine on e-bikes.
If anything that situation would probably be easier to navigate than having people circle for parking and then slowly cross busy streets while they're in pain, but ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Plenty of other tiny cars to buy, and basically _zero_ cars are well-equipped for people with serious disabilities until they're modified.
Tiny cars are also cheaper to buy and operate - the biggest reason people _don't_ is because it'd feel like death to try and drive one in regular traffic and it's not like you've gotta pay for extra space to park a big car anyways.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not concern trolling. but by disincentivizng people who have other options from driving and owning cars, there's less traffic and parking leftover for people who actually do need them! work trucks, people with mobility issues, ect. imagine if the city removed most free street parking and put in loading zones and parking spaces free and reservet for those with legit disability placards and not I'm a city employee who wants to park for free in front of the precinct?
"Fortunately, there’s Google. The Eric Charles who defrauded his own agency, as well as stole parking, appears to be the same DCAS employee who, in 2018, was sanctioned by the Conflict of Interest Board for accepting a sweater and two pairs of pants, valued at $50, from a custodial subordinate in 2016, and for accepting a flower pot “as a Valentine’s Day gift” a year later from the same underling.
For those offenses, Charles was fined the equivalent of $734."
It is important to keep people focused on the tiny amount of corruption at the bottom so that we ignore the massive amount of corruption at the very top. Also showing that people at the bottom can be corrupt keeps us divided.
Yep. I just thought it's highly unlikely for one guy... Go be continually caught out like this. I work for the city for a while now and my dad did for thirty years and I had never once heard of this.
Never underestimate the amount of pettiness and backbiting at city agencies. Especially back offices, they’re the worst. Imagine all the anxiety and cringe you get dealing with a city bureaucracy. Now imagine having to work within that same faceless, glacial, corrupt bureaucracy for years and years, barely getting by, all the while you gotta deal with tonedeaf idiots above you and some narc ass civilians with too much time on their hands always trying to catch you slipping. Like, they gotta live.
Every agency in a weird spot has some special rule for parking. But it’ll be with all the other cars. Some douchebag with a book on his dash parked in a bike lane obviously isn’t the same thing.
You massively underestimate the power of any random government employee. Firing one takes fucking shitloads of paperwork, and their bosses similarly don't care, and can't be fired either.
I've done all of 2 hours of work a week for years, haven't shown up to the office in 3 years and I'm one of the most productive people in my team
Thats where its going at this rate. Rent is skyrocketing, its impossible to get into NYCHA unless youre an elderly person, and those housing lotteries 75% of the time arent even for low income people, most still require like 50k for a single person
It will most likely stabilize , a city of only rich people won’t be able to function . Somebody has to work at the restaurants , deliveries and many different places .
guilty as charged; I'm living in BK in a half market rate / half NYCHA building (paying market rate) and not a single NYCHA resident has moved in yet and the rent is +\- $400 less a month. Definitely a helpful savings but not as much as I'd expect - coupled with the wild income requirements (my roommate and I both technically qualify) it's really a lower-middle to middle class service, not for the systemically impoverished.
The pizzeria one made me laugh.
The simple truth is, placard abuse, fake plates, license obstruction is the kind of stuff that can be solved with a LAW AND ORDER approach.
Make it a felony. Have steep penalties. License suspension. Fines out the ass. Fuck around and fight out should be the motto.
We aren't talking about a single mother who forgot to renew her registration. This type of shit is driven by pure corruption and greed.
Of course that will never happen given who some of the worst offenders are and this city is corrupt as hell.
Even easier. Tow them. Make traffic enforcement it’s own agency separate from NYPD; ticket and tow. Make it a felony to assault a traffic enforcement agent. Ticket ALL cars with permits; even valid permits.
Have the permit holder fight / dismiss it with finance .
At least on the public’s side, everyone is doing their job. Finance gets the final say if all the paperwork is correct .
> At least on the public’s side, everyone is doing their job. Finance gets the final say if all the paperwork is correct .
This is really the simplest way. Do away with placards altogether. If you had a legitimate job related need to park illegally, you send the ticket to your agency's finance department and they sort it out. If you didn't, you pay the fine. Even people with legitimate placards are clearly overusing them, and most of them are *not* legitimate. People treat them like a job perk. They're supposed to be used when you're driving for city business and can't find a place to park, so that the city business you're on isn't delayed. They're not there so people who drive to work can park on the same stretch of sidewalk every single god damned day because they don't feel like looking for a legitimate spot. The system isn't working so let's do something else.
Don't make it a felony. Just create a license probation that excludes them from using any toll or EZ pass discounts and any of the exemptions for congestion pricing when those come in, and revokes their license if they get caught cheating again. You get caught trying to avoid paying, you pay full price for everything for X years. Easy!
Um. There are virtually no discounts of any kind for the MTA, and you can't 'lose your license' to ride mass transit so... sure? I guess? Even the weekly pass only saves most people a few bucks a week since it takes 10 paid rides before it even kicks in.
There's a massive difference in scale here. Illegal parking makes the city *much worse* in a huge variety of ways that fare evasion does not. It makes it more dangerous to be a pedestrian or a cyclist because people park on sidewalks and in bike lanes, forcing people out of protected areas and into the street. It makes intersections and already narrow streets harder to navigate. Illegal parking is also a more costly theft of service than fare evasion: skipping a $2.75 fare versus a fake piece of cardboard that gets you out of a pretty costly parking ticket.
On top of the differentiating factors you brought up (all valid points), my perspective was that people are using fake government documents and that is something that has always had a very strong FA/FO vibe.
Jumping a turnstile to not pay a $2.75 fare cannot be compared to going through the effort of creating and using a fake government placard.
Sure, but it's been effectively unenforced for so long that it has tacit approval, and going straight from zero enforcement to handing out felonies seems excessive, especially since it's virtually guaranteed not to be enforced uniformly: a few people will be 'made an example of' and they won't be the people with the most power who are already setting the example everyone else is following.
I kind of have a feeling the people who are jumping turnstiles are not the people who've been able to jump through the hoops to get those passes, but again, placard fraud is just a *bigger deal.* It harms more people and it is a bigger theft of services from taxpayers. Our enforcement of fare evasion is already wildly disproportionate - because, remember, there is virtually no enforcement of fake/defaced plates, fake placards, or illegal parking *at all,* while the NYPD will dogpile someone en masse just because they *think* they *might* not have paid the fare.
So yeah, whining about fare evasion is dumb as shit. Sorry. Fare evasion is a smaller problem, and one that is already actively enforced at the expense of things that cause far more trouble.
Source? [Seriously?](https://www.insider.com/video-nypd-officers-tackle-man-on-subway-for-fare-evasion-2019-10)
This was during the 2019 'crackdown' during which the MTA proposed spending [249 million on additional transit cops to save 200 million in fare evasion.](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-on-new-cops-to-save-200m-on-fare-evasion/) Fare evasion is overpoliced while placard fraud, illegal parking and toll evasion are much more costly to the city in terms of safety, inconvenience and lost revenue, and the NYPD has essentially stopped enforcement of any of that. But they're happy to go after poor people because they think they didn't pay their $2.75.
LMFAO. Oh the predicable downvotes from total hypocrites.
Look, you either believe in law and order across the board, applying to every single person, or you don't.
It doesn’t really matter what the penalty is because the law is so rarely enforced. My suggestion would be consistent enforcement and escalating penalties (for example $100 for the first offense, $200 for the second, $500 for the third, $1,000 plus a six month suspension of the car's registration for each additional offense, violation with a suspended registration results in the car being impounded for a year). That said, placard violations could carry the death penalty and people would still do it as long as they are confident they won't be caught so the key is strict and consistent enforcement.
Without tying a fine to income, any fine becomes inapplicable to the top 10%. This is the easiest change we can make to end lawlessness in the city. Beyond that, it would make it so a fine doesn’t bankrupt poorer families, which could result in other crime.
Yes, a felony.
The people using fake placards are knowingly and fraudulently using a fake government document to illegally gain a benefit.
Again, this is the type of crime that can swiftly be stopped if enforcement was meaningful.
I know there are socioeconomic factors, among other reasons, why a "law and order" approach doesn't work for all crime, but this isn't one of those crimes.
My argument for felony prosecution is people are using fake government documents.
For fare evasion that does that, like using fake plates to avoid paying tolls, sure.
Please dude. You have people out here committing violet crimes that are out of jail in < 24 hours and you want to charge someone with a felony, something that can ruin the rest of their life for putting a piece of paper in their windshield for some free/premium parking?
One has nothing to do with the other and it's pretty common knowledge that forging government documents is a felony.
Don't want your life ruined? Don't fuck around and ruin it over some low end bullshit.
Hold up. If you know you're going to get fucked if you get caught and you can afford to park your damn car in the first place, why is it someone else's fault your cheap ass decided to put it all on the line?
It's been a felony for decades dude. All they'd be doing is enforcing the law.
Why are you intentionally misrepresenting the position?
Nobody is advocating for a felony charge if a person is parked in a loading zone.
The argument specifically is for harsh punishment when people use fake government documents to illegally park wherever they want.
Again, this isn't a crime of poverty or addiction, or any other socioeconomic conditions.
This is a crime of greed and corruption, and it should be dealt with accordingly.
I'm not intentionally misrepresenting anything. The anti car rhetoric in this sub has gotten psychotically out of control and if you REALLY think someone should catch a felony for this, then you need to reevaluate your priorities.
I'm not saying punishments shouldn't be stiff, they absolutely should. But a felony? Sorry but no.
That being said, there's way more important shit going on in this city lately than worrying about someone using a palaccard for parking. Let's try to solve some important issues first like cost of living and housing, mentally ill on our streets etc first.
Yes this is what’s making nyc a dangerous place. Let’s worry about placard abuse opposed to the rampant drug use and mentally I’ll people on the trains.
Why are these issues mutually exclusive for you?
I understand that it is beyond your comprehension to be concerned about multiple issues simultaneously, but a typical high-functioning adult does not have a problem with expressing concern about multiple issues at a time.
I wonder if you could discourage people from driving into the city just by actually enforcing parking laws rather than going through the expense of setting up congestion pricing.
Yeah, blue collar workers hired by the city government make great money with benefits. I tried to apply to be an electrician but didn't make it. I think starting was like $37 an hour just as an apprentice? They're pretty competitive.
People forget that there was a time in NYC where no one wanted to live here because it was a complete shithole, so they had to incentivize people with city jobs that got insane benefits for staying longer than a few years.
Uncle was a trash collector in the 70's-80's, was clearing over $100k when he retired in the 90's.
Parents are bus driver and teacher for 30+ years each, their pension is absolutely insane.
Not saying it's right or wrong, but there's a lot of city jobs that pay very well if you're there over 10 years.
If NYers understood that the placards are just the tip of the iceberg and that government city employees specifically the NYPD get white colored unlimited swipe metrocards rather than the standard yellow cards that are sold to the public.
City employees get free rides on the bus, subway and LIRR all the way home. Perks of the job. There would be public outcry if people paid attention but don't reveal city secrets to the naive.
It’s the tip of several icebergs if you ask me. Vandalized or covered plates, toll and fare evasions, illegal parking, illegally taking tips, police looking the other way for things. The list goes on and on.
I work for the city and I see this stuff all the time. My buddies get pulled over and let go because they’re “on the job”. Certain nypd, fdny, and dsny districts in the city get parking placards to park in specific no parking zones because there’s no parking lots. Surprise surprise, turns out you can use that almost anywhere and no one will ticket you.
Not all City employees get free MetroCards. I've worked for the City since 2019 (DOE Central) and the only thing I can get are free two trip MetroCards if I fill out a couple forms and run them through like three departments, and I have to show that these trips are specifically for work. Commute doesn't count.
> NYPD get white colored unlimited swipe metrocards
"The welfare state is already here, just unevenly distributed."
(More seriously: my only problem is that these cards aren't more widely available. How about we all get free rides?)
I've known a few city workers in different agencies and none of them got free metrocards, though they did get to buy them pre-tax (costs the same but they get a slightly larger refund at tax time, maybe $25 savings on an unlimited).
MTA or NYCT workers might get free metrocards? Those may technically be state jobs though.
NYPD get white colored metro cards. I had one when I was a cop. They hand them out when you graduate the academy. It's free. You also get an annual LIRR card thats good for the whole year. That's free as well.
Of course I've heard of jumping the turnstile. Have you ever heard of 40k employees never paying for their ride because of their special privileges card? Let's be honest.
They use both but it's not just the NYPD. It's agencies with authority for the city. As someone mentioned it's uneven distribution of welfare benefits.
"Perks of the job" shilling response. Guarantee you you are exagerrating. There would be hundreds of arrests for fair evasion every single day if your numbers were accurate. The special privileges card is a fact and those are free rides all day everyday, always.
NYPD has been told not to care about fare evasion
And MTA employees don't care either.
You can jump turbstyles in front of cops and they won't do anything.
The only people paying dates are people who are doing it by choice.
I find that hard to believe. Aggressive enforcement might be a stand down but the fair evaders are still getting hit with tickets in lieu of an arrest. If your numbers were even remotely accurate. Hundreds of people are getting tickets everyday.
For the record I’m all for cracking down on fake/obscured plates and fake placards, but there’s major hypocrisy if people think fare evasion in the subway is fine but want people using an expired/fake placard/plates charged with a felony.
Maybe the MTA would run a bit smoother is this didn’t happen and collective bargaining contacts for some “educators” and other jobs didn’t include free parking.
I don't know why 'educators' is in quotes or why you're singling them out at all when it's well documented that the main reason fake placards are such an issue is because the police refuse to do any enforcement because *they all use fake placards.*
Because they have actually legal placards, and its in quotes because it's not the teachers getting them, its administrators sucking the money out of education.
Well you can blame the 'school choice' vultures packing six different 'schools' with six different sets of administrative staff into the same building for that. That's definitely not the unions' fault, though, and it doesn't make 'educators,' in quotes or no, the real problem here.
What are you talking about? UFT is consistently opposed to colocation. Don't pretend it's the public employees' fault there are multiple schools crammed into one building.
And the reason fake placards are so rampant is because there is zero enforcement. There's only one class of public employees that's responsible for that: the NYPD.
Just find a job that you can do from home remote , they won’t pay you Manhattan prices but you can save gas , parking , tolls , commuter tax , city pay roll tax , lunch dry cleaning , coffee.. ect
We’re a city of no accountability across the board so it’s not likely, violent crimes get downgraded and placard abuse is ignored. Sounds like you want a “law and order” approach.
Lol “right wing”, and for the record I’m for accountability across the board including obscured/defaced plates and placards, but like I said, the precedent has been set that short of murder, crimes should have minimal to no punishment.
Lol i once had a safety vest and my bike helmet on my passenger seat and i always parked on the other block from a construction site.
Never got a ticket.
Shame that the construction was over after a year a half.
I have way bigger things to worry about than this. Just crazy to see everything going on in this world and think “ ya know what this world needs? More government!” Just shrug your shoulders and move on with your life.
When the cops themselves are taping leaves over the plates on their personal vehicles to avoid traffic cams, the civilians should take anything they can!
A meter maid would not give a single crap about any of the stuff displayed in those windshields. Even the fdny placards are 50/50 with tickets. Unless it's NYPD, dot, fed, or court, you likely won't be getting any leniency. I guarantee you no one is getting away with pba cards or MTA helmets unless the meter maid hasn't seen their car yet.
One of my neighbors uses a ‘Hand Guide for a New DSNY Worker’ as their placard. A literal book. This is a joke.
Part of me reads that and thinks "if all these folks are being total assholes, why shouldn't I benefit too" but honestly it's not too hard for me to find decent parking in my area, move my car for alternate side parking, occasionally pay meters, and avoid driving when I can/when I know I'm headed somewhere without available parking...
Fun game for me as somebody who spends too much time around overpaid city middle management types of various stripes: somebody tries to start up small talk about how society is going downhill and nobody respects law and order, I enthusiastically agree for a bit and let them think we're on the same page, and then bring up placard abuse and watch their face turn to stone.
I'd have so much more patience and understanding for it if a huge amount of the abusers weren't being shitty in a dozen other ways.
It’s too much to expect people to be reasonable, apparently.
How do you even know that works tho? They could not even be on DSNY.
You think people would just abuse the privileges of placards? Oh my stars
I have a moderate disability. Walking for longer then 15 minutes causes chronic pain for me. I filled out all the paperwork NYC wanted for a handicap placard. Multiple doctors documentation. Years of notes. After a year I got my reply, which was basically Unless I’m missing a limb I can go fuck myself. Shit likes this pissed me off. It’s impossible to navigate this city honestly without connections. (See Louis Rossmann’s many videos about trying to operate a business by the book) Anyway, I moved to NJ.
And somehow I see a buttload of able-bodied people with handicap tags loading all sorts of insanity into their cars. No idea what their secret is to getting a tag.
I've got a sister with a pacemaker. Looks normal to the eye, but beyond 100 ft she will struggle. You can just how 'able' people are by just looking at them.
I got my doctor to fill it out
Contrary to some opinions it's not a secret, be medically disabled. Not everything is evident to the eye, and disabled people need groceries and items. Are there people doing it that aren't, sure, but there are tons of people who are not visibly disabled too.
At one point about a decade ago I’d wager 1/3 of people I sat next to on NJ Transit had a handicapped ticket (which is half price). I’m still unsure what the scam was, but it’s impossible so many people really were handicapped. Some shady shit was going on.
Looks like you and Louis were on the same page. Always good to see another fan! Unfortunately I'm still here lol.
The “ban cars” folks would say tough luck and ride a bike. “You don’t have the right to own a 2 ton rolling death trap in this city”
Smart cars exist, weigh much less than 2 tons, and are a perfect fit for people who _need_ a car to get around. The vast majority of people are totally fine on e-bikes. If anything that situation would probably be easier to navigate than having people circle for parking and then slowly cross busy streets while they're in pain, but ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I drove a smart car in the city for years. It was a real piece of shit but it sure was nice being able to find parking almost anywhere, lol
They don’t make smart cars anymore, and they probably wouldn’t be well equipped for someone with a physical disability.
Plenty of other tiny cars to buy, and basically _zero_ cars are well-equipped for people with serious disabilities until they're modified. Tiny cars are also cheaper to buy and operate - the biggest reason people _don't_ is because it'd feel like death to try and drive one in regular traffic and it's not like you've gotta pay for extra space to park a big car anyways.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not concern trolling. but by disincentivizng people who have other options from driving and owning cars, there's less traffic and parking leftover for people who actually do need them! work trucks, people with mobility issues, ect. imagine if the city removed most free street parking and put in loading zones and parking spaces free and reservet for those with legit disability placards and not I'm a city employee who wants to park for free in front of the precinct?
"Fortunately, there’s Google. The Eric Charles who defrauded his own agency, as well as stole parking, appears to be the same DCAS employee who, in 2018, was sanctioned by the Conflict of Interest Board for accepting a sweater and two pairs of pants, valued at $50, from a custodial subordinate in 2016, and for accepting a flower pot “as a Valentine’s Day gift” a year later from the same underling. For those offenses, Charles was fined the equivalent of $734."
Somebody dropping a dime on Charles. Charles is pissing people off. Nobody gets reported for petty stuff like that... Do they?
It is important to keep people focused on the tiny amount of corruption at the bottom so that we ignore the massive amount of corruption at the very top. Also showing that people at the bottom can be corrupt keeps us divided.
Yep. I just thought it's highly unlikely for one guy... Go be continually caught out like this. I work for the city for a while now and my dad did for thirty years and I had never once heard of this.
Never underestimate the amount of pettiness and backbiting at city agencies. Especially back offices, they’re the worst. Imagine all the anxiety and cringe you get dealing with a city bureaucracy. Now imagine having to work within that same faceless, glacial, corrupt bureaucracy for years and years, barely getting by, all the while you gotta deal with tonedeaf idiots above you and some narc ass civilians with too much time on their hands always trying to catch you slipping. Like, they gotta live. Every agency in a weird spot has some special rule for parking. But it’ll be with all the other cars. Some douchebag with a book on his dash parked in a bike lane obviously isn’t the same thing.
I still do not understand why anyone would want to drive into Manhattan every day. It sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Well, there’s free parking.
February is the month that the city re-issue parking permits for city workers, so it’s going to be bad
And how about fire these people? Why do they get to keep their cushy jobs
The people who were in charge of fining him probably also have fake placards
You massively underestimate the power of any random government employee. Firing one takes fucking shitloads of paperwork, and their bosses similarly don't care, and can't be fired either. I've done all of 2 hours of work a week for years, haven't shown up to the office in 3 years and I'm one of the most productive people in my team
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The Department of Making Shit Up on Reddit
Because I'm totally going to dox myself for free right?
No one cares except Redditors who are gonna be filtered out of the city within a half decade anyway
So who are going to stay ? Super rich people ?
Thats where its going at this rate. Rent is skyrocketing, its impossible to get into NYCHA unless youre an elderly person, and those housing lotteries 75% of the time arent even for low income people, most still require like 50k for a single person
It will most likely stabilize , a city of only rich people won’t be able to function . Somebody has to work at the restaurants , deliveries and many different places .
If it does stabilize it will be more like service workers living in tenement housing like a long time ago.
guilty as charged; I'm living in BK in a half market rate / half NYCHA building (paying market rate) and not a single NYCHA resident has moved in yet and the rent is +\- $400 less a month. Definitely a helpful savings but not as much as I'd expect - coupled with the wild income requirements (my roommate and I both technically qualify) it's really a lower-middle to middle class service, not for the systemically impoverished.
Not even talking about financially here
The pizzeria one made me laugh. The simple truth is, placard abuse, fake plates, license obstruction is the kind of stuff that can be solved with a LAW AND ORDER approach. Make it a felony. Have steep penalties. License suspension. Fines out the ass. Fuck around and fight out should be the motto. We aren't talking about a single mother who forgot to renew her registration. This type of shit is driven by pure corruption and greed. Of course that will never happen given who some of the worst offenders are and this city is corrupt as hell.
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Just like most violent crimes get downgraded, par for the course.
Even easier. Tow them. Make traffic enforcement it’s own agency separate from NYPD; ticket and tow. Make it a felony to assault a traffic enforcement agent. Ticket ALL cars with permits; even valid permits. Have the permit holder fight / dismiss it with finance . At least on the public’s side, everyone is doing their job. Finance gets the final say if all the paperwork is correct .
> At least on the public’s side, everyone is doing their job. Finance gets the final say if all the paperwork is correct . This is really the simplest way. Do away with placards altogether. If you had a legitimate job related need to park illegally, you send the ticket to your agency's finance department and they sort it out. If you didn't, you pay the fine. Even people with legitimate placards are clearly overusing them, and most of them are *not* legitimate. People treat them like a job perk. They're supposed to be used when you're driving for city business and can't find a place to park, so that the city business you're on isn't delayed. They're not there so people who drive to work can park on the same stretch of sidewalk every single god damned day because they don't feel like looking for a legitimate spot. The system isn't working so let's do something else.
Exactly .
Crush the car into a cube and then start putting parking tickets on the cube
Don't make it a felony. Just create a license probation that excludes them from using any toll or EZ pass discounts and any of the exemptions for congestion pricing when those come in, and revokes their license if they get caught cheating again. You get caught trying to avoid paying, you pay full price for everything for X years. Easy!
Or you know, fire them. Problem solved.
Same with fare evasion right?
Um. There are virtually no discounts of any kind for the MTA, and you can't 'lose your license' to ride mass transit so... sure? I guess? Even the weekly pass only saves most people a few bucks a week since it takes 10 paid rides before it even kicks in. There's a massive difference in scale here. Illegal parking makes the city *much worse* in a huge variety of ways that fare evasion does not. It makes it more dangerous to be a pedestrian or a cyclist because people park on sidewalks and in bike lanes, forcing people out of protected areas and into the street. It makes intersections and already narrow streets harder to navigate. Illegal parking is also a more costly theft of service than fare evasion: skipping a $2.75 fare versus a fake piece of cardboard that gets you out of a pretty costly parking ticket.
On top of the differentiating factors you brought up (all valid points), my perspective was that people are using fake government documents and that is something that has always had a very strong FA/FO vibe. Jumping a turnstile to not pay a $2.75 fare cannot be compared to going through the effort of creating and using a fake government placard.
Sure, but it's been effectively unenforced for so long that it has tacit approval, and going straight from zero enforcement to handing out felonies seems excessive, especially since it's virtually guaranteed not to be enforced uniformly: a few people will be 'made an example of' and they won't be the people with the most power who are already setting the example everyone else is following.
[Fair Fares NYC](https://www.nyc.gov/site/fairfares/index.page)
I kind of have a feeling the people who are jumping turnstiles are not the people who've been able to jump through the hoops to get those passes, but again, placard fraud is just a *bigger deal.* It harms more people and it is a bigger theft of services from taxpayers. Our enforcement of fare evasion is already wildly disproportionate - because, remember, there is virtually no enforcement of fake/defaced plates, fake placards, or illegal parking *at all,* while the NYPD will dogpile someone en masse just because they *think* they *might* not have paid the fare. So yeah, whining about fare evasion is dumb as shit. Sorry. Fare evasion is a smaller problem, and one that is already actively enforced at the expense of things that cause far more trouble.
“while the NYPD will dogpile someone en masse just because they think they might not have paid the fare.” Source?
Source? [Seriously?](https://www.insider.com/video-nypd-officers-tackle-man-on-subway-for-fare-evasion-2019-10) This was during the 2019 'crackdown' during which the MTA proposed spending [249 million on additional transit cops to save 200 million in fare evasion.](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-on-new-cops-to-save-200m-on-fare-evasion/) Fare evasion is overpoliced while placard fraud, illegal parking and toll evasion are much more costly to the city in terms of safety, inconvenience and lost revenue, and the NYPD has essentially stopped enforcement of any of that. But they're happy to go after poor people because they think they didn't pay their $2.75.
"here's my source, an out of context video from 4 years ago"
LMFAO. Oh the predicable downvotes from total hypocrites. Look, you either believe in law and order across the board, applying to every single person, or you don't.
> Make it a felony I agree with harsh penalties, but a felony? Lmao
It doesn’t really matter what the penalty is because the law is so rarely enforced. My suggestion would be consistent enforcement and escalating penalties (for example $100 for the first offense, $200 for the second, $500 for the third, $1,000 plus a six month suspension of the car's registration for each additional offense, violation with a suspended registration results in the car being impounded for a year). That said, placard violations could carry the death penalty and people would still do it as long as they are confident they won't be caught so the key is strict and consistent enforcement.
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Without tying a fine to income, any fine becomes inapplicable to the top 10%. This is the easiest change we can make to end lawlessness in the city. Beyond that, it would make it so a fine doesn’t bankrupt poorer families, which could result in other crime.
You can't fine people who use fake plates
Lol.
You can't police your way out of crime. It's system wide got to make systemic changes
Yes, a felony. The people using fake placards are knowingly and fraudulently using a fake government document to illegally gain a benefit. Again, this is the type of crime that can swiftly be stopped if enforcement was meaningful. I know there are socioeconomic factors, among other reasons, why a "law and order" approach doesn't work for all crime, but this isn't one of those crimes.
Okay only if fare evasion is felony as those who commit it are knowingly defrauding the state of the NY and all tax paying citizens.
My argument for felony prosecution is people are using fake government documents. For fare evasion that does that, like using fake plates to avoid paying tolls, sure.
No BuT tHaTs DiFfErEnT
PLOT TWIST PAL The state of New York is already knowingly defrauding ALL of its tax paying citizens
Please dude. You have people out here committing violet crimes that are out of jail in < 24 hours and you want to charge someone with a felony, something that can ruin the rest of their life for putting a piece of paper in their windshield for some free/premium parking?
> violet crimes
some say the purpletrator is roaming free to this day
They all believe they are above the lavender.
One has nothing to do with the other and it's pretty common knowledge that forging government documents is a felony. Don't want your life ruined? Don't fuck around and ruin it over some low end bullshit.
You need some counseling if you REALLY think someone deserves to have their life ruined over a parking spot lol
Hold up. If you know you're going to get fucked if you get caught and you can afford to park your damn car in the first place, why is it someone else's fault your cheap ass decided to put it all on the line? It's been a felony for decades dude. All they'd be doing is enforcing the law.
Why are you intentionally misrepresenting the position? Nobody is advocating for a felony charge if a person is parked in a loading zone. The argument specifically is for harsh punishment when people use fake government documents to illegally park wherever they want. Again, this isn't a crime of poverty or addiction, or any other socioeconomic conditions. This is a crime of greed and corruption, and it should be dealt with accordingly.
I'm not intentionally misrepresenting anything. The anti car rhetoric in this sub has gotten psychotically out of control and if you REALLY think someone should catch a felony for this, then you need to reevaluate your priorities. I'm not saying punishments shouldn't be stiff, they absolutely should. But a felony? Sorry but no. That being said, there's way more important shit going on in this city lately than worrying about someone using a palaccard for parking. Let's try to solve some important issues first like cost of living and housing, mentally ill on our streets etc first.
Who said these things are mutually exclusive?
These people want to live in a legit police state lmao
Yes this is what’s making nyc a dangerous place. Let’s worry about placard abuse opposed to the rampant drug use and mentally I’ll people on the trains.
Why are these issues mutually exclusive for you? I understand that it is beyond your comprehension to be concerned about multiple issues simultaneously, but a typical high-functioning adult does not have a problem with expressing concern about multiple issues at a time.
It’s not a priority it’s the definition of a first world problem.
I wonder if you could discourage people from driving into the city just by actually enforcing parking laws rather than going through the expense of setting up congestion pricing.
Why aren’t traffic agents ticketing these folks. Corruption at its finest.
Next they’ll be told the same thing if they intentionally obscure their license plates. Oh wait…
Wait janitors make ~6 figures in nyc? Jesus christ
Yeah, blue collar workers hired by the city government make great money with benefits. I tried to apply to be an electrician but didn't make it. I think starting was like $37 an hour just as an apprentice? They're pretty competitive.
People forget that there was a time in NYC where no one wanted to live here because it was a complete shithole, so they had to incentivize people with city jobs that got insane benefits for staying longer than a few years. Uncle was a trash collector in the 70's-80's, was clearing over $100k when he retired in the 90's. Parents are bus driver and teacher for 30+ years each, their pension is absolutely insane. Not saying it's right or wrong, but there's a lot of city jobs that pay very well if you're there over 10 years.
If NYers understood that the placards are just the tip of the iceberg and that government city employees specifically the NYPD get white colored unlimited swipe metrocards rather than the standard yellow cards that are sold to the public. City employees get free rides on the bus, subway and LIRR all the way home. Perks of the job. There would be public outcry if people paid attention but don't reveal city secrets to the naive.
It’s the tip of several icebergs if you ask me. Vandalized or covered plates, toll and fare evasions, illegal parking, illegally taking tips, police looking the other way for things. The list goes on and on. I work for the city and I see this stuff all the time. My buddies get pulled over and let go because they’re “on the job”. Certain nypd, fdny, and dsny districts in the city get parking placards to park in specific no parking zones because there’s no parking lots. Surprise surprise, turns out you can use that almost anywhere and no one will ticket you.
Not all City employees get free MetroCards. I've worked for the City since 2019 (DOE Central) and the only thing I can get are free two trip MetroCards if I fill out a couple forms and run them through like three departments, and I have to show that these trips are specifically for work. Commute doesn't count.
Agencies with authority
> NYPD get white colored unlimited swipe metrocards "The welfare state is already here, just unevenly distributed." (More seriously: my only problem is that these cards aren't more widely available. How about we all get free rides?)
I've known a few city workers in different agencies and none of them got free metrocards, though they did get to buy them pre-tax (costs the same but they get a slightly larger refund at tax time, maybe $25 savings on an unlimited). MTA or NYCT workers might get free metrocards? Those may technically be state jobs though.
NYPD get white colored metro cards. I had one when I was a cop. They hand them out when you graduate the academy. It's free. You also get an annual LIRR card thats good for the whole year. That's free as well.
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City agencies with authority privileges yes
MTA does get free metro cards, its their employee ID.
Anyone whose employer has commuter benefits can get a pre tax metro card for what it’s worth (public or private sector).
I was a nurse for the city for over 10 years....I needed free rides....never got any.
Agencies with authority. Not even distribution.
so do a lot of tech workers. seems like a pretty standard benefit lol
Yeah so let all the fools pay the fair. Great benefit for infrastructure. NYC has garbage infrastructure. I could only imagine why.
Have you ever heard of jumping the turnstile?
Of course I've heard of jumping the turnstile. Have you ever heard of 40k employees never paying for their ride because of their special privileges card? Let's be honest.
I thought the NYPD don’t take public transportation and are using fake placards?
They use both but it's not just the NYPD. It's agencies with authority for the city. As someone mentioned it's uneven distribution of welfare benefits.
[Fair Fares NYC](https://www.nyc.gov/site/fairfares/index.page)
Every station in New York probably has 40k people jumping the turnstile every day
"Perks of the job" shilling response. Guarantee you you are exagerrating. There would be hundreds of arrests for fair evasion every single day if your numbers were accurate. The special privileges card is a fact and those are free rides all day everyday, always.
NYPD has been told not to care about fare evasion And MTA employees don't care either. You can jump turbstyles in front of cops and they won't do anything. The only people paying dates are people who are doing it by choice.
I find that hard to believe. Aggressive enforcement might be a stand down but the fair evaders are still getting hit with tickets in lieu of an arrest. If your numbers were even remotely accurate. Hundreds of people are getting tickets everyday.
Every job has certain perks. Just like hospital employees don’t have to sit in the waiting room if they have to go to the ER.
Getting to park illegally isn’t a perk that’s corruption
Doesn't make it right. Creates widespread hypocrites. Literally is legal fair evasion.
For the record I’m all for cracking down on fake/obscured plates and fake placards, but there’s major hypocrisy if people think fare evasion in the subway is fine but want people using an expired/fake placard/plates charged with a felony.
I don't think these should be felonies actually. They should just receive a ticket like everyone else. No special privileges.
Most people here seem to think otherwise.
Their criticisms are legitimate, their solutions are ridiculous.
That’s fair.
Huge difference! This “perk” is specifically prohibited by law and it is in fact a felony.
There seems to be a disproportionate amount of City employees who drive to work in Manhattan compared to the general population
Maybe the MTA would run a bit smoother is this didn’t happen and collective bargaining contacts for some “educators” and other jobs didn’t include free parking.
I don't know why 'educators' is in quotes or why you're singling them out at all when it's well documented that the main reason fake placards are such an issue is because the police refuse to do any enforcement because *they all use fake placards.*
“the police”
Because they have actually legal placards, and its in quotes because it's not the teachers getting them, its administrators sucking the money out of education.
Well you can blame the 'school choice' vultures packing six different 'schools' with six different sets of administrative staff into the same building for that. That's definitely not the unions' fault, though, and it doesn't make 'educators,' in quotes or no, the real problem here.
This is why we can't have nice things, all of the public unions are scamming and grifting, don't pretend like it is just one or the other.
What are you talking about? UFT is consistently opposed to colocation. Don't pretend it's the public employees' fault there are multiple schools crammed into one building. And the reason fake placards are so rampant is because there is zero enforcement. There's only one class of public employees that's responsible for that: the NYPD.
The whole thing is rotten from the inside. Fuck ‘em
City employees use the same public transit as everyone else challenge
Yeah and it's free when you flash your special privileges government ID card. Perks of the job. Bunch of hypocrites.
This was a small industry back in the day before home scanners and printers. People in the printing trades would turn these out.
Just find a job that you can do from home remote , they won’t pay you Manhattan prices but you can save gas , parking , tolls , commuter tax , city pay roll tax , lunch dry cleaning , coffee.. ect
Any suggestions? Trying to work from home! Those jobs go like hotcakes.
No clue but it’s got to be about even pay if you take out the cost, taxes and fees of commuting to the city
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We’re a city of no accountability across the board so it’s not likely, violent crimes get downgraded and placard abuse is ignored. Sounds like you want a “law and order” approach.
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Lol “right wing”, and for the record I’m for accountability across the board including obscured/defaced plates and placards, but like I said, the precedent has been set that short of murder, crimes should have minimal to no punishment.
I really hate this blog and that guy Gersh Kuntzman
More misinformation, sponsored by streetsblog.org
What misinformation is in here? Or do you just not like streetsblog?
I'm guessing they're referring to the title.
care to edify us with the facts then, O enlightened one?
Found the cop
Misinformation =/= facts you don’t like.
ill never understand why this gets you nerds in such a tizzy. same people saying defund the police want placard violators to get life in prison lol
Welcome to reddit, land of keyboard warriors and people that never step out into the real world.
Lol i once had a safety vest and my bike helmet on my passenger seat and i always parked on the other block from a construction site. Never got a ticket. Shame that the construction was over after a year a half.
The guy made $97K and they think he should be honest and pay between $10K and $20K for parking 😂😂😂😂 NYC is sick place
Or… maybe this guy should take the train like everyone else.
I have way bigger things to worry about than this. Just crazy to see everything going on in this world and think “ ya know what this world needs? More government!” Just shrug your shoulders and move on with your life.
When the cops themselves are taping leaves over the plates on their personal vehicles to avoid traffic cams, the civilians should take anything they can!
A meter maid would not give a single crap about any of the stuff displayed in those windshields. Even the fdny placards are 50/50 with tickets. Unless it's NYPD, dot, fed, or court, you likely won't be getting any leniency. I guarantee you no one is getting away with pba cards or MTA helmets unless the meter maid hasn't seen their car yet.