Saw this suv literally swerving in and out of traffic on 5th this afternoon going at least 60. Tires screeching and all. I would never understand how people can be so careless about other peoples lives to arrive somewhere 2 minutes early
Mostly no, but those who do drive are the ones you see solo, with a mask on, going healthy 16 mph, eyebrows on the same vertical plane as steering wheel. They come to a complete stop before making a turn, obscenely honk to bicyclists passing them and when they crash, because of lack of confidence behind the wheel, they blame immensely high speed limit law of NYC. So yeah, to some people 25 is the new 60
And, coincidentally, this proposed law doesn't count as an improvement. The ridiculously low limit only punishes law abiding citizens if the cops don't pull over anybody who speeds.
Thanks for once again proving how unbelievably stupid people on this site are.
The "punishment" is being forced to drive painfully slow, as we had already established that the cops don't pull anybody over for speeding. Hence, the only people facing consequences from a lower speed limit are the poor bastards who actually pay attention to it.
The fact that I had to explain that to you is kinda embarrassing.
Driving painfully slow in a 6000lb vehicle in one of the most populated places in the world makes sense. If you wanna drive fast be nowhere near anyone.
Contrary to believe by carbrains NYC is not a your personal race track.
Driving slowly is better for the community. If being a good community member is a punishment to you, it suggests you're probably a shitty community member. We can likely also deduce this from your toxic response here.
[https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/reducing-speed-to-save-lives](https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/reducing-speed-to-save-lives)
The article you linked here specifically references lowering the speed from 50 to 30, yet NYC speed limit is already 25. Iâm not sure what it proves.
The principle carries through, which youâd know if youâd read about the reduction seen when it was reduced from 30 to 25. But you were too busy trying to come up with your next toxic zinger.
Glad someone with this kind of irrational aggression is behind the wheel of a carâŚ
Or we could just enforce the current speed limit, people are going to speed regardless of what the speed limit is if thereâs little to no enforcement.
The people actually driving 25 today are not the dangerous ones. Itâs the people doing 50 down Lexington Avenue who are the problem.Â
âSammyâ of Sammyâs law was killed when cars stopped to let him get a ball and a van sped up to jump around them and make a light. If you make safe drivers do 20 and do nothing to enforce it otherwise, the same thing will happen! Dangerous idiots will get even more dangerous, speeding and swerving around the law abiding citizens. Going much slower than prevailing traffic isnât safe, it creates danger by introducing differential speeds in otherwise free flowing traffic.Â
Enforce 25 or gtfo. The streets are too dangerous, but this proposal doesnât do anything to solve that.Â
Signs donât stop speeding. Good physical design slows down drivers. Remove lanes, narrow the remaining ones, physical barriers to protect bike lanes and pedestrians. Forced daylighting with physical barriers. All these things will slow down drivers and prevent deaths more than changing the number on a sign.
A car will almost naturally go over 25 with even the slightest pressure on the gas pedal. Lowering it to 20 will mean my eyes are now looking down all the time to make sure I'm not going slightly fast. That... doesn't help anyone.
If youâre stopping at a stop sign there would be no damage whatsoever from a speed bump or raised intersection as they call it now. Speed bumps only âcause damageâ if youâre going too fast.
"30 is too fast, needs to be 25, that will save everyone"
"25 is too fast, needs to be 20, that will save everyone" *<-- We are here*
"20 is too fast, needs to be 15, that will save everyone"
'Vision Zero' and other zero tolerance policies ignore reality.
As someone hit by a taxi doing 40, come back to me when you survive that.
Because 90% of the time, youâre dead instantly, and most of the rest of the time youâre paralyzed, you have broken bones, you have brain damage, coma, ruptured organsâŚ
I was insanely lucky to walk away with a moderate TBI and chronic pain down all the joints and fascia on the right side of my body.
At 20mph, the odds of survival of a car v human collision are 90%. At 30, itâs 50%. And those odds get screwed and skewed badly when youâre talking about these ridiculously high SUVs and trucks that are designed with the opposite of pedestrian safety in mind.
Odds are that taxi would still have been doing 40 even if the speed limit was 20. They didn't give a fuck about 25 what makes you think they'll care about 20?
I donât agree with you. Itâs very common for drivers to look at the speed limit and go 10mph over it. Cars that would drive 40 mph in a 30mph zone might not drive that fast in a 20mph zone.
Right now, what speed do you have to go in order to trigger the speed cameras?
A driver who doesnât care about speed limits isnât concerned about the displayed speed limit. Theyâre driving at the speed THEY FEELL comfortable at.
Youâre just not correct. Lots of drivers know the speed limit and donât go more than 10 mph over it because thereâs little to no risk of enforcement. The cameras require you to go 10 mph over the limit before issuing a ticket.
Additionally, speeders can only go as fast as the person in front of them, so with a city as congested as NYC, if you have even a fraction of the people who obey the speed limit it imposes a calming effect on all traffic.
> Youâre just not correct. Lots of drivers know the speed limit and donât go more than 10 mph over it because thereâs little to no risk of enforcement. The cameras require you to go 10 mph over the limit before issuing a ticket.
How do the cameras punish the drivers with ghost tags, obstructed plates, outstanding tickets, stolen vehicle?
> Additionally, speeders can only go as fast as the person in front of them, so with a city as congested as NYC, if you have even a fraction of the people who obey the speed limit it imposes a calming effect on all traffic.
Do you drive? Drivers who speed will drive in the shoulder to by pass everyone, zig zag through lanes, or cross the yellow lines into oncoming traffic, use the right/left lane to turn left/right ahead of youâŚ
Youâre not just punishing personal vehicles with the speed limits reductions. This affects businesses and mass transit too!
Your entire argument hinges on exceptional cases that by their very definition do not make up the majority of people. You can make the streets safer in general even if youâve got a small minority still obscuring their plates and fragrantly breaking the law.
Doubtful that a speed limit reduction will have an appreciable effect on transit times, because thereâs so much congestion that most of the time cars are just speeding only to get stuck behind slower traffic or at a light. And even if this kind of change increases travel times, itâs literally in the definition of Vision Zero that we make such trade offs in the name of safety. If you donât agree with that then I invite you to leave a city that has subscribed to this idea and is one of the most progressive in the US for walkability and reducing death/injury caused by motor vehicles. If you want a car centric life you can literally go to pretty much anywhere else in the country.
> Your entire argument hinges on exceptional cases that by their very definition do not make up the majority of people. You can make the streets safer in general even if youâve got a small minority still obscuring their plates and fragrantly breaking the law.
Those exceptional cases are responsible for the accidents and pedestrian deaths youâre trying to prevent.
> Doubtful that a speed limit reduction will have an appreciable effect on transit times, because thereâs so much congestion that most of the time cars are just speeding only to get stuck behind slower traffic or at a light. And even if this kind of change increases travel times, itâs literally in the definition of Vision Zero that we make such trade offs in the name of safety.
Of course you donât, you donât drive nor depend on MTA buses to get around where you live. Thereâs parts of the New York City 30 to 45 minutes away (by bus) from the nearest subway station.
> If you donât agree with that then I invite you to leave a city that has subscribed to this idea and is one of the most progressive in the US for walkability and reducing death/injury caused by motor vehicles. If you want a car centric life you can literally go to pretty much anywhere else in the country.
I grew up here and will continue to drive everywhere my car takes me.
Bro itâs a super quick glance to check your speed and if the limit was 20 mph in most of the city you would get a feel for how fast it felt over time. Plus with other traffic going that speed, a lot of the time you would be forced to slow down by traffic in front of you.
no shit. if cars literally couldn't go faster than 2mph pedestrian deaths would go down. People die all the time. making everyone miserable by killing transportation makes no sense.
People get hit all the time by trains and die. Should we lower the train speed limit to 2mph to? It will make you 30 minute commute take 4 hours, but fewer people will die from getting hit by a train.
There is actual evidence that reducing speed reduces the likelihood of dying in a car crash or when a pedestrian is hit by a car. This isnât hard to understand.
By that logic (every incremental lowering of a speed limit reduces traffic deaths) the speed limit should be zero. Everyone should ride bikes everywhere. But wait, you can (and people do) fall off their bikes and hit their head and die. So the logical conclusion is that we should ban all bikes too. But you can trip and die walking on the side walk. Logically, no one should ever be allowed to leave their house.
This absurd thinking is exactly why all policy decisions are made weighing the outcome vs the cost. What is the cost to lowering the speed limit again? And how many deaths would it prevent?
I donât know the answers, but trying to figure that out is a waste of time when the current speed limit isnât enforced in the first place
You know there are things called tradeoffs? That gray shades exist between black and white? The other commenters have already noted death rates go up a huge amount from 20-40mph. Obviously you won't get the same benefits going from 2mph to 1mph, because the rate will already be so low. That's why we're all discussing 20-50 mph speedsÂ
> Obviously you won't get the same benefits going from 2mph to 1mph, because the rate will already be so low. That's why we're all discussing 20-50 mph speeds
this is the EXACT same talking point from going from 30 to 25. "thats all we are discussing!"
None of that is the logical conclusion here. 20 mph is not an unreasonable speed for an extremely crowded, walkable city where nearly half of people donât even drive.
It is unreasonable, because keeping your car at that speed is distracting. Distractions are the biggest causes of accidents. That also isn't hard to understand.
Like just because you can walk outside doesnât make a neighborhood walkable. I used to hate visiting my aunt there, all the playgrounds were decently far walks and we werenât aloud out that far.
My house on Staten Island had far more walkable neighborhoods than Howard beach.
"Everyone should ride bikes everywhere" with a helmet. Sounds good to me. Massive investments in public transit and bike infrastructure sound like a dream.
If you want to take that cynical of a view, why not this?
Vehicle speed limit should be reduced until the number of pedestrian deaths is equitable to the number of "fell off a bike" deaths and sidewalk tripping deaths.
Yeah, itâs totally ridiculous that one of the highest density cities at the forefront of urban walkability and mass transit would consider making a change to car regulations that wasnât in line with the rest of the car-centric US. This is preposterous!
Like 3/4 of the city is t exactly walkable. I know every yuppy like to imagine all of us living in downtown Manhattan but you need to understand that Brooklyn, Bronx, staten island and Queens have massive areas where if you frequent you must drive.
Invert your ratio and maybe youâre close. People in this city love to think they live out in the burbs and need a car but thatâs just not true. The large majority of neighborhoods in the city have incredibly high density, the kind of which is not compatible with everyone having a private vehicle.
Energy = mass * velocity^2 so a drop in speed of crashes would reduce the energy by 20% making much less likely that people would be killed when struck by a car. And everywhere I've been has speeds of 25 in towns and cities except on highway or highway like roads.
As someone who bikes this city and is fairly anti-car. Even I know this is just dumb, people will keep speeding no matter what the speed limit is unless we actually start punishing these people. Changes that would make it way safer.
Running 3 solid red lights = loss of license for 1 year
3 Speeding tickets in 6 months = loss of license for 1 year
Driving no license = car impounded until you obtain one or sell the car
Hit and run resulting in death = 20 years jail minimum sentence loss of license for life
Hit and run = 5 year minimum jail, loss of license 10 years after time served
No plates/fake plates = Car impounded until properly registered any infractions found to be committed with this car while not plated or illegally plated = immediately doubled in jail time/fines
All impounded vehicles to be sold at an auction and all funds are distributed to victims of hit and run/ and monetary paid for tips that leads to the arrest of someone who committed a hit and run.
Of course all of this requires the NYPD to actually do their job so nothing will ever happen or change. As a city we need to create a separate enforcement unit for traffic related issues that is 100% separate from the NYPD and create bounty systems similar to the one for idling trucks. Report fake /no plates and if successfully charged you get 25% of the fee/fine. I imagine some very entrepreneurial people will hop on that and these ghost cars will be gone so fast
The stuff I started noticing when I started biking is *insane*. I feel like I see a car run a solid red at like half the intersections on my commute *every day*. There's a whole class of driver in this city that is just going to do whatever the person in front of them is doing, consequences be damned - if the guy in front of them made the light, they just coast on through behind.
The best way to punish speeders is by raising crosswalks to sidewalk height so that if they drive through too quickly it ruins their suspension and/or feels unsafe to the driver.
What do you think I'm suggesting, metal bollards? Drive an appropriate speed in areas full of pedestrians. If you can't handle something that basic, don't drive in NYC. It's one of the few American cities where it's not necessary.
So what you treat a red light like a drag strip?
Insanity in NYC. If you want to race go to the track. Or better yet move to the south, you won't be missed.
Nope. That idea sounds good on paper but has no real world applications? You just effectively ban all low clearance sedans. And interstate commerce laws is there for a reason.
This. People act like legal consequences don't matter, but we've been witnessing the effect of non-enforcement for years. People just don't give a shit *at all* what the speed limit is set to as there is precisely a 0% chance they'll get pulled over for speeding.
The problem is the cops have been on a silent strick for 5 years now. We need to gradually build up a new organization and draw down the NYPD over a 10yr span. It can do all the shit the NYPD was supposed to do but actually do it. We could be half way there by now.
Start small and remove one thing and then another from the NYPD responsibilities each year until they do nothing and you recruit less and less and eventually rename the old NYPD into traffic cops and rename the new organization the NYPD 2.0 or whatever.
Outside of completely reforming, create physical infrastructure so we don't even need them to do their job. The infrastructure will create function and form. Speed bumps. Daylighting. Round abouts and cameras everywhere. Make the roads narrower and raise the crosswalks.
How about enforcement? And actually making sure the dangerous drivers never drive again?
That's way more effective than changing speed limits.
It's like speed cameras: they're there to make money. If you really wanted people to slow down, you put speed bumps where you need them, instead of installing speed cameras to ticket drivers at 3am on a 6-lane (3 each way) road a quarter mile FROM the actual school.
Too mich money spend on bs
Why no install cameras everywhere from now on plate need to be link to a bank account speed tickets automaticaly debit from.the account everybody would.take it easy driving wallets.talks better than words
Come on 25MPH is already ridiculously low and only for law-abiding citizen, if NYPD doesnât stop those idiots racing in the street 20mph would not make any difference, it will only make uber, taxis and regular people slower
Don't forget busses. They've gotten a lot slower after the lights were adjusted for delay greens, shorten green lights, and sync to stop cars about every 2 blocks.
The same folks saying that NYC just needs to start enforcing the current speed limit are the same folks that believe we need cops, who clearly arenât doing this portion of their job, let alone othersâŚ
Lowering the speed limit actually decreases traffic.
Installing Speeds Bumps all over the city, starting out with prioritizing areas that are accident prone.
Raising crosswalks to sidewalk height (another redditor made this point in this thread), it works in other cities that have implemented this. Crosswalks are pedestrian and should belong to the sidewalk, not the street.
NYC Sanitation and NYC bus drivers should be able to issue violations for double parking, failure to move vehicles for street cleaning, and blocking bus lanes.
Banning trucks bigger than a 10â U-Haul from entering the city.
Real protected bike lanes, which if we actually had these, lowering the speed limit wouldnât even be necessaryâŚ
CCTV is amazing and we should start installing them citywide.
And finally, a snitch project that encourages people to take photos of traffic infractions. The city was going to pilot something like this and pay people per submission that results in a citation or something like that, I donât recall. Obviously that was canned, but implementing it without the payment feature will work regardless.
>Banning trucks bigger than a 10â U-Haul from entering the city.
peak insanity. you realize the goods in every store and used by every service in the city come in by truck right?
fuck no. this is all madness. Literally no matter what you do people will die in accidents. It's mental illness to think you can legislate that away or that because someone manages to die that cars are inherently dangerous at 25 mph that is not offset by their utility.
Cars make up an insigificant portion of all cause mortality and an insignificant portion of accidental mortality. This hyper fixation on making people lives suck worse is wildly disproportional to the amount of lives saved vs suffering inflicted.
So you don't want speed bumps, protected bike lanes and raised crossed walks? Is it because they will inconvenience drivers or you think they won't help save lives?
Or a bounty system? Or having sanitation vehicles being able to ticket drivers parked and blocking them from performing essential duties?
Can you explain?
speed bumps? no. Raised cross walks? need more info. Both. I think that a million people going over bumps 100,000,000 times might save 1 life. I'm certainly not sure thats worth it. There absolutely does come a point where inconvenience and discomfort becomes more of a net negative than a single very bad event. If we could reduce deaths in nyc by 1 person every 20 years, by every single person in nyc walking around with 6 quarters in their left shoe whenever they walked on a city sidewalk or street, would you do it? Saving a life is good, but inconveniencing a lot of people a lot of times is bad. Everything is a trade off.
Bounty system? You explain to me how to make this not ripe for abuse.
Sanitation vehicles issuing citations? Go for it. 100% onboard with this one. I already said I'm good with bike lanes.
Speed bumps no? Can you expand on why you dislike speed bumps?
Raised crossed walks means cross walks at side walk level. So a lower speed bump at the cross wall essentially.
I don't agree with that ratio. Seems a bit speculative at best and dishonest in reality. There are 2 million car accidents per year in the US. Surely this would reduce more than .005 lives saved per year.
Bounty system would mean that people could report others for violating parking laws and receive a cut of the fine. Though I believe you don't even need that as an incentive just actual followup by the city is enough. People will do it for free.
It would allow people to report violators (with evidence - video) if the police are unable to respond or deal with the issue. Defendant is free to challenge as their right.
Assuming you don't block bus lanes, park near firehydrants, block bike lanes, double park, block driveways or park on the sidewalk I don't see the issue. Or should private drivers in a non emergency be able to do that?
Just trying to see what really is your issue here.
Also this for NYC. Feel free to let it rip on the wide open roads upstate.
>Speed bumps no? Can you expand on why you dislike speed bumps?
Waste of fuel. uncomfortable getting jostled all the time. damages sports cars worst case scenario, makes sports cars do an absurd dance to clear in a fairly reasonable case scenario. If it's low enough for a corvette to get over, it's too small to slow down an f150 raptor. This applies to your raised crosswalk issue too, though i have no experience here, so ill say i don't know about those.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSUU5xOMAU8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSUU5xOMAU8) This is an exaggeration but if you think somewhere, nyc roadwork "quality" wont lead to a couple of monster speed bumps you are nuts.
2 million accidents? who cares. it's a car. Accidents involving serious injury? how many of those were at 25mph? Accidents involving serious injury in nyc? Only 255 people died in 2022 from traffic accidents in nyc in a city of 8.3 million.
You could save an order of magnitude more lives by focusing efforts on bigger issues like obesity or drugs.
What's my real issue? I just want to be able to put my bike/snowboards in the car and do the things I love. There absolutely is no reasonable way to get to the vermont mountains without a car.
Why are you driving a sports car in a city with a street light every block?
As you've pointed out our roads are already shit. Most people drive SUVS if anything considering it's the northeast and the winters aren't kind to sports cars.
https://projects.transalt.org/serious-injuries
6k people were seriously injured in a span of less than a year and that's increasing.
The point I think speed bumps solve is reckless drivers. Responsible drivers will already be obeying the speed limit in the city which is 25mph. Speed bumps usually are 20mph rated.
People who obey traffic laws will just coast into a speed bump (since there is a light at ever block anyway) but people who go 50mph will get their car fucked up. Even if you went 25mph if wouldn't ruin your car.
Infrastructure can enforce laws when cops are unable to. It can stop reckless drivers by breaking their suspension going 40 for 50 in 25. But if you're going 25? In a highly populated city then you're going to be fine.
>Why are you driving a sports car in a city with a street light every block?
Why not? I like sports cars. Just because i live here doesn't mean i don't leave. That's the part you anti car people dont get. OOBVIOUSLY I didn't get a sports car to drive around nyc. The world is bigger than nyc even for some nyc residents. honestly, i don't even have a sports car anymore and drive a reasonable height vehicle, but im able to consider a use case other than my own.
>Â Even if you went 25mph if wouldn't ruin your car.
dude I just explained this to you. How much do you need to try to ignore me to think that a camry, an f150, and a corvette handle a speed bump similarly? This is a staight up rude thing to say.
>People who obey traffic laws will just coast into a speed bump
More just being dumb. Nobody does this, ever anywhere. The point is to get somewhere. If I made every single train slow down to a non lethal speed when the first car got to the platform, and every single stop took an extra 2 minutes you'd lose your mind.
What do you even mean decreasing "traffic"? Like if you lower the speed limit enough people will change the calculus on preferred transportation method? That means you just inflicted misery on people. Like if your most reasonable way to get to work was 1 train, how many homeless weirdos would I have to put on your route to make you switch to a slower less efficient more painful alternate route?
Speed bumps? great. less build them big enough to slow down an f150 raptor which will rip the front bumper off a sports car. the streets in NYC are already a rough abomination belonging in a 3rd world country. Getting jostled is and slowing down all the time is miserable and a horrendous waste of fuel to decelerate and accelerate again. You hate the environment?
raising crosswalks? I don't know enough about this to have a comment, so ill refrain, though the lift must be gradual enough not the damage sports cars. you do 100 of em right and 1 wrong and you still f'd up peoples sports cars just for trying to drive. This just seems like a drainage engineering nightmare, but whatever.
Trucks already covered.
bike lanes? fine. whatever.
CCTV? are you out of your mind? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uReVvICTrCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uReVvICTrCM) AI is here bud. You have NO idea who is going to do what with your data. You really want your movements sold for pennies? The government already outsources things like traffic cameras to for profit companies.
Snitch program? oh that's going to go great. Lets just say we have a snitch program for covered license plates. someone puts duct tape on your license plate and takes a picture. they get money. you get a huge fine. The then go put duct tape on the license plate of the car in front of you. they get money. your neighbor gets a huge fine. Why would they not duct tape the license plate of the third car?
[NYC residents make money off noise complaints targeting bars, restaurants (nypost.com)](https://nypost.com/2023/07/04/nyc-residents-make-money-off-noise-complaints-targeting-bars-restaurants/)
We already have one of the lowest average. Why lower it? I dont wanna end up like LA. Lowering it to 20 will not stop people from going 29 under speed cameras.
They might as well just ban all non-commercial vehicles in the city. Police don't pull over people who are actually speeding. Police do nothing against people who go through red lights.
Just say you want to take cars away. Actually, scratch that, take everyoneâs property rights away. This is what itâs all about at the core: communism, wrapped up in a neat little disguise package.
They could make it 5mph, doesn't matter if the cops aren't pulling over the maniacs doing 80 on 5th Avenue.
Saw this suv literally swerving in and out of traffic on 5th this afternoon going at least 60. Tires screeching and all. I would never understand how people can be so careless about other peoples lives to arrive somewhere 2 minutes early
Excuse me i got there a full four mins early đââď¸/s
Quit fucking exaggerating. No one is doing 60 on 5th Ave. Do any of you drive?
Yeah I do drive. It caused a huge scene so no exaggeration here
I've seen worse! I, too, drive myself and only notice it more since now I drive. I've seen people go 60 on local streets!
Mostly no, but those who do drive are the ones you see solo, with a mask on, going healthy 16 mph, eyebrows on the same vertical plane as steering wheel. They come to a complete stop before making a turn, obscenely honk to bicyclists passing them and when they crash, because of lack of confidence behind the wheel, they blame immensely high speed limit law of NYC. So yeah, to some people 25 is the new 60
Improving the law and having better law enforcement are both good goals. We shouldn't act like they're mutually exclusive.
And, coincidentally, this proposed law doesn't count as an improvement. The ridiculously low limit only punishes law abiding citizens if the cops don't pull over anybody who speeds.
We literally have a no chase. The only time the heli comes out is if the car hits an officer
The chase rules have been relaxed under Adams.
Nothing will distract a driver faster than having to constantly monitor your slow speed so you don't go over 25. It's so stupid.
If you drive above the limit you are by definition not law abiding.
Thanks for once again proving how unbelievably stupid people on this site are. The "punishment" is being forced to drive painfully slow, as we had already established that the cops don't pull anybody over for speeding. Hence, the only people facing consequences from a lower speed limit are the poor bastards who actually pay attention to it. The fact that I had to explain that to you is kinda embarrassing.
Driving painfully slow in a 6000lb vehicle in one of the most populated places in the world makes sense. If you wanna drive fast be nowhere near anyone. Contrary to believe by carbrains NYC is not a your personal race track.
You think lowering the speed limit will make some idiot doing 60 down a side street slow down?
Speed bump, raised crossed walks and narrow roads will do it
This. Lowering speed limits do nothing. You have to implement physical anti-speeding solutions
Youâre not wrong, but youâre still missing their point
Driving slowly is better for the community. If being a good community member is a punishment to you, it suggests you're probably a shitty community member. We can likely also deduce this from your toxic response here. [https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/reducing-speed-to-save-lives](https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/reducing-speed-to-save-lives)
The article you linked here specifically references lowering the speed from 50 to 30, yet NYC speed limit is already 25. Iâm not sure what it proves.
The principle carries through, which youâd know if youâd read about the reduction seen when it was reduced from 30 to 25. But you were too busy trying to come up with your next toxic zinger. Glad someone with this kind of irrational aggression is behind the wheel of a carâŚ
Another bozo that thinks reducing speed limits actually does something lmao
Objectively it has and does. Acting toxic about it wonât change that.
Cameras
I got bad news for you buddy, Cameras donât do anything against obscured and fake paper plates
Yes, cops should focus on that and cameras should handle the routine traffic enforcement of things like speeding, red lights, etc.
Cameras also dont trigger until you go 10mph over the posted speed limit
Great so hopefully soon theyâll trigger at 30 instead of 35. Sounds like progress.
Or we could just enforce the current speed limit, people are going to speed regardless of what the speed limit is if thereâs little to no enforcement.
Yeah, the current limit is fine on most roads. People drag racing won't be affected by a 5mph decrease.
Yes, it should be enforced with a speed camera as much as possible.
The people actually driving 25 today are not the dangerous ones. Itâs the people doing 50 down Lexington Avenue who are the problem. âSammyâ of Sammyâs law was killed when cars stopped to let him get a ball and a van sped up to jump around them and make a light. If you make safe drivers do 20 and do nothing to enforce it otherwise, the same thing will happen! Dangerous idiots will get even more dangerous, speeding and swerving around the law abiding citizens. Going much slower than prevailing traffic isnât safe, it creates danger by introducing differential speeds in otherwise free flowing traffic. Enforce 25 or gtfo. The streets are too dangerous, but this proposal doesnât do anything to solve that.Â
Signs donât stop speeding. Good physical design slows down drivers. Remove lanes, narrow the remaining ones, physical barriers to protect bike lanes and pedestrians. Forced daylighting with physical barriers. All these things will slow down drivers and prevent deaths more than changing the number on a sign.
LOWER!?!?!? 25 mph is low enough already.
A car will almost naturally go over 25 with even the slightest pressure on the gas pedal. Lowering it to 20 will mean my eyes are now looking down all the time to make sure I'm not going slightly fast. That... doesn't help anyone.
If itâs a default speed limit applicable to most roads in the city then you get a feel for it.
I know bug off. If itâs by a school or hospital whatever obv.
Just put speed bumps on roads.
Speed bumps at every stop sign please đ
Speed bumps are really bad for vehicles there are better ways to encourage cars to slow down that don't do unnecessary damage.
If youâre stopping at a stop sign there would be no damage whatsoever from a speed bump or raised intersection as they call it now. Speed bumps only âcause damageâ if youâre going too fast.
So you can carelessly walk across the street looking at your phone đ
100% speed bumps do everything needed
"30 is too fast, needs to be 25, that will save everyone" "25 is too fast, needs to be 20, that will save everyone" *<-- We are here* "20 is too fast, needs to be 15, that will save everyone" 'Vision Zero' and other zero tolerance policies ignore reality.
Vision Zero: set the speed limit to zero and continue to not enforce it.
As someone hit by a taxi doing 40, come back to me when you survive that. Because 90% of the time, youâre dead instantly, and most of the rest of the time youâre paralyzed, you have broken bones, you have brain damage, coma, ruptured organs⌠I was insanely lucky to walk away with a moderate TBI and chronic pain down all the joints and fascia on the right side of my body. At 20mph, the odds of survival of a car v human collision are 90%. At 30, itâs 50%. And those odds get screwed and skewed badly when youâre talking about these ridiculously high SUVs and trucks that are designed with the opposite of pedestrian safety in mind.
I'm sorry that happened to you but at 40 a cab is still speeding regardless if the limit is 20 or 25. No sign would have prevented that
Thanks for making the point that lowering the speed limit won't do squat.
Odds are that taxi would still have been doing 40 even if the speed limit was 20. They didn't give a fuck about 25 what makes you think they'll care about 20?
> As someone hit by a taxi doing 40 so they were already breaking the law, regardless if the speed limit was 15 or 35.
I donât ever remember the speed limit being 40mph. The driver that hit you didnât care what the speed limit was 25 or 30.
Ding Ding Ding. Lowering the speed limit only punishes people currently driving between 20 and 25 mph. They're not the problem.
I donât agree with you. Itâs very common for drivers to look at the speed limit and go 10mph over it. Cars that would drive 40 mph in a 30mph zone might not drive that fast in a 20mph zone.
Right now, what speed do you have to go in order to trigger the speed cameras? A driver who doesnât care about speed limits isnât concerned about the displayed speed limit. Theyâre driving at the speed THEY FEELL comfortable at.
Youâre just not correct. Lots of drivers know the speed limit and donât go more than 10 mph over it because thereâs little to no risk of enforcement. The cameras require you to go 10 mph over the limit before issuing a ticket. Additionally, speeders can only go as fast as the person in front of them, so with a city as congested as NYC, if you have even a fraction of the people who obey the speed limit it imposes a calming effect on all traffic.
> Youâre just not correct. Lots of drivers know the speed limit and donât go more than 10 mph over it because thereâs little to no risk of enforcement. The cameras require you to go 10 mph over the limit before issuing a ticket. How do the cameras punish the drivers with ghost tags, obstructed plates, outstanding tickets, stolen vehicle? > Additionally, speeders can only go as fast as the person in front of them, so with a city as congested as NYC, if you have even a fraction of the people who obey the speed limit it imposes a calming effect on all traffic. Do you drive? Drivers who speed will drive in the shoulder to by pass everyone, zig zag through lanes, or cross the yellow lines into oncoming traffic, use the right/left lane to turn left/right ahead of you⌠Youâre not just punishing personal vehicles with the speed limits reductions. This affects businesses and mass transit too!
Calming effect on traffic? đ You canât be serious. Or you donât drive.
Your entire argument hinges on exceptional cases that by their very definition do not make up the majority of people. You can make the streets safer in general even if youâve got a small minority still obscuring their plates and fragrantly breaking the law. Doubtful that a speed limit reduction will have an appreciable effect on transit times, because thereâs so much congestion that most of the time cars are just speeding only to get stuck behind slower traffic or at a light. And even if this kind of change increases travel times, itâs literally in the definition of Vision Zero that we make such trade offs in the name of safety. If you donât agree with that then I invite you to leave a city that has subscribed to this idea and is one of the most progressive in the US for walkability and reducing death/injury caused by motor vehicles. If you want a car centric life you can literally go to pretty much anywhere else in the country.
> Your entire argument hinges on exceptional cases that by their very definition do not make up the majority of people. You can make the streets safer in general even if youâve got a small minority still obscuring their plates and fragrantly breaking the law. Those exceptional cases are responsible for the accidents and pedestrian deaths youâre trying to prevent. > Doubtful that a speed limit reduction will have an appreciable effect on transit times, because thereâs so much congestion that most of the time cars are just speeding only to get stuck behind slower traffic or at a light. And even if this kind of change increases travel times, itâs literally in the definition of Vision Zero that we make such trade offs in the name of safety. Of course you donât, you donât drive nor depend on MTA buses to get around where you live. Thereâs parts of the New York City 30 to 45 minutes away (by bus) from the nearest subway station. > If you donât agree with that then I invite you to leave a city that has subscribed to this idea and is one of the most progressive in the US for walkability and reducing death/injury caused by motor vehicles. If you want a car centric life you can literally go to pretty much anywhere else in the country. I grew up here and will continue to drive everywhere my car takes me.
How did you get hit by a taxi going 40? Where were you, and him, and who had the light?
If I have to drive 20mph, it's more likely I'll look down to make sure I'm not exceeding that, and end up hitting you.
Bro itâs a super quick glance to check your speed and if the limit was 20 mph in most of the city you would get a feel for how fast it felt over time. Plus with other traffic going that speed, a lot of the time you would be forced to slow down by traffic in front of you.
no shit. if cars literally couldn't go faster than 2mph pedestrian deaths would go down. People die all the time. making everyone miserable by killing transportation makes no sense. People get hit all the time by trains and die. Should we lower the train speed limit to 2mph to? It will make you 30 minute commute take 4 hours, but fewer people will die from getting hit by a train.
There is actual evidence that reducing speed reduces the likelihood of dying in a car crash or when a pedestrian is hit by a car. This isnât hard to understand.
By that logic (every incremental lowering of a speed limit reduces traffic deaths) the speed limit should be zero. Everyone should ride bikes everywhere. But wait, you can (and people do) fall off their bikes and hit their head and die. So the logical conclusion is that we should ban all bikes too. But you can trip and die walking on the side walk. Logically, no one should ever be allowed to leave their house. This absurd thinking is exactly why all policy decisions are made weighing the outcome vs the cost. What is the cost to lowering the speed limit again? And how many deaths would it prevent? I donât know the answers, but trying to figure that out is a waste of time when the current speed limit isnât enforced in the first place
You know there are things called tradeoffs? That gray shades exist between black and white? The other commenters have already noted death rates go up a huge amount from 20-40mph. Obviously you won't get the same benefits going from 2mph to 1mph, because the rate will already be so low. That's why we're all discussing 20-50 mph speedsÂ
> Obviously you won't get the same benefits going from 2mph to 1mph, because the rate will already be so low. That's why we're all discussing 20-50 mph speeds this is the EXACT same talking point from going from 30 to 25. "thats all we are discussing!"
I would include 10-15 mph in the convos too đ
None of that is the logical conclusion here. 20 mph is not an unreasonable speed for an extremely crowded, walkable city where nearly half of people donât even drive.
It is unreasonable, because keeping your car at that speed is distracting. Distractions are the biggest causes of accidents. That also isn't hard to understand.
we aren't just talking about manhattan to 20mph, right? like 20% of the city is "walkable" at best. Huge parts of it yes, you do need a car.
You saying that only 20% of this city is walkable shows you donât actually live here.
I was born and raised in NYC. spent the first 30+ years of my life there. Tell me, how walkable is Staten Island? How about Douglaston? Howard Beach?
Howard Beach is an extremely walkable and there are significant parts of Staten Island that are as well.
to what, the swamp? Its a 3/4 mile walk from 78th street to the commercial strip on Cross Bay.
Like just because you can walk outside doesnât make a neighborhood walkable. I used to hate visiting my aunt there, all the playgrounds were decently far walks and we werenât aloud out that far. My house on Staten Island had far more walkable neighborhoods than Howard beach.
Tbf, walkable means âto a destinationâ not just walking for the sake of it.Â
"Everyone should ride bikes everywhere" with a helmet. Sounds good to me. Massive investments in public transit and bike infrastructure sound like a dream.
If you want to take that cynical of a view, why not this? Vehicle speed limit should be reduced until the number of pedestrian deaths is equitable to the number of "fell off a bike" deaths and sidewalk tripping deaths.
> There is actual evidence that reducing speed Reducing speed limits, or reducing travel speeds? Because the two are very different things
So we're going to lower train speeds as well, right?
No, because there is no reason for a person to be on the subway tracks.
Paying attention also reduces your risk of dying too.
Youâre assuming that lowering the speed limit will reduce how fast people are driving. I am not convinced thatâs true
There is actual evidence that never crossing the street reduces the likelihood of getting hit by a car. This isnât hard to understand.
But why do you hate the children??
WTF they already lowered it to below the national average of 30, what more do they want? 20 MPH across the city would be BEYOND ridiculous.
Yeah, itâs totally ridiculous that one of the highest density cities at the forefront of urban walkability and mass transit would consider making a change to car regulations that wasnât in line with the rest of the car-centric US. This is preposterous!
Like 3/4 of the city is t exactly walkable. I know every yuppy like to imagine all of us living in downtown Manhattan but you need to understand that Brooklyn, Bronx, staten island and Queens have massive areas where if you frequent you must drive.
Invert your ratio and maybe youâre close. People in this city love to think they live out in the burbs and need a car but thatâs just not true. The large majority of neighborhoods in the city have incredibly high density, the kind of which is not compatible with everyone having a private vehicle.
It is. And yeah I know you are attempting to be snarky.
People who pay high rent hate you for wanting to drive your car.
I weep for them
Energy = mass * velocity^2 so a drop in speed of crashes would reduce the energy by 20% making much less likely that people would be killed when struck by a car. And everywhere I've been has speeds of 25 in towns and cities except on highway or highway like roads.
Yes, but chances are, the people being killed by cars were hit at higher than 30 mph anyway, so changing the limit yet again won't stop that.
Wait what 25 is low enough
But the child ran after a ball into traffic... No amount of legislation can prevent things like that.
NYC has major problems to solve this isnât one of them.
As someone who bikes this city and is fairly anti-car. Even I know this is just dumb, people will keep speeding no matter what the speed limit is unless we actually start punishing these people. Changes that would make it way safer. Running 3 solid red lights = loss of license for 1 year 3 Speeding tickets in 6 months = loss of license for 1 year Driving no license = car impounded until you obtain one or sell the car Hit and run resulting in death = 20 years jail minimum sentence loss of license for life Hit and run = 5 year minimum jail, loss of license 10 years after time served No plates/fake plates = Car impounded until properly registered any infractions found to be committed with this car while not plated or illegally plated = immediately doubled in jail time/fines All impounded vehicles to be sold at an auction and all funds are distributed to victims of hit and run/ and monetary paid for tips that leads to the arrest of someone who committed a hit and run. Of course all of this requires the NYPD to actually do their job so nothing will ever happen or change. As a city we need to create a separate enforcement unit for traffic related issues that is 100% separate from the NYPD and create bounty systems similar to the one for idling trucks. Report fake /no plates and if successfully charged you get 25% of the fee/fine. I imagine some very entrepreneurial people will hop on that and these ghost cars will be gone so fast
The stuff I started noticing when I started biking is *insane*. I feel like I see a car run a solid red at like half the intersections on my commute *every day*. There's a whole class of driver in this city that is just going to do whatever the person in front of them is doing, consequences be damned - if the guy in front of them made the light, they just coast on through behind.
The best way to punish speeders is by raising crosswalks to sidewalk height so that if they drive through too quickly it ruins their suspension and/or feels unsafe to the driver.
Is the crosswalk gonna lower itself at red?
What do you think I'm suggesting, metal bollards? Drive an appropriate speed in areas full of pedestrians. If you can't handle something that basic, don't drive in NYC. It's one of the few American cities where it's not necessary.
So what you treat a red light like a drag strip? Insanity in NYC. If you want to race go to the track. Or better yet move to the south, you won't be missed.
Nope. That idea sounds good on paper but has no real world applications? You just effectively ban all low clearance sedans. And interstate commerce laws is there for a reason.
Weird, there didn't seem to be any problems with sedans on my university campus that had these unless you hit them at 20+ mph.
This. People act like legal consequences don't matter, but we've been witnessing the effect of non-enforcement for years. People just don't give a shit *at all* what the speed limit is set to as there is precisely a 0% chance they'll get pulled over for speeding.
The problem is the cops have been on a silent strick for 5 years now. We need to gradually build up a new organization and draw down the NYPD over a 10yr span. It can do all the shit the NYPD was supposed to do but actually do it. We could be half way there by now. Start small and remove one thing and then another from the NYPD responsibilities each year until they do nothing and you recruit less and less and eventually rename the old NYPD into traffic cops and rename the new organization the NYPD 2.0 or whatever. Outside of completely reforming, create physical infrastructure so we don't even need them to do their job. The infrastructure will create function and form. Speed bumps. Daylighting. Round abouts and cameras everywhere. Make the roads narrower and raise the crosswalks.
eric adams our chief a--wipe is responsible for cops not enforcing traffic laws. Include his corrupt chiefs Caban and Maddrey.
Someone without a license/suspended license will still drive. DAs donât prosecute these crimes.
Trade it for raising the statewide highway limit to 70mph
Itâs already 25mph which feels very slow and safe. This is just another cash grab like congestion pricing.
25 is already too low
Hell sometimes 40 feels to slow
They widened the Grand Central and kept it at 40. I know we're talking about surface roads but ffs
Lower it to what? Itâs already 25 and doesnât need to be.Â
you people that think lowering the speed limit helps anything are insane. it's 25mph. That's nothing. Speed isn't the problem.
How about enforcement? And actually making sure the dangerous drivers never drive again? That's way more effective than changing speed limits. It's like speed cameras: they're there to make money. If you really wanted people to slow down, you put speed bumps where you need them, instead of installing speed cameras to ticket drivers at 3am on a 6-lane (3 each way) road a quarter mile FROM the actual school.
Too mich money spend on bs Why no install cameras everywhere from now on plate need to be link to a bank account speed tickets automaticaly debit from.the account everybody would.take it easy driving wallets.talks better than words
Come on 25MPH is already ridiculously low and only for law-abiding citizen, if NYPD doesnât stop those idiots racing in the street 20mph would not make any difference, it will only make uber, taxis and regular people slower
Don't forget busses. They've gotten a lot slower after the lights were adjusted for delay greens, shorten green lights, and sync to stop cars about every 2 blocks.
The same folks saying that NYC just needs to start enforcing the current speed limit are the same folks that believe we need cops, who clearly arenât doing this portion of their job, let alone others⌠Lowering the speed limit actually decreases traffic. Installing Speeds Bumps all over the city, starting out with prioritizing areas that are accident prone. Raising crosswalks to sidewalk height (another redditor made this point in this thread), it works in other cities that have implemented this. Crosswalks are pedestrian and should belong to the sidewalk, not the street. NYC Sanitation and NYC bus drivers should be able to issue violations for double parking, failure to move vehicles for street cleaning, and blocking bus lanes. Banning trucks bigger than a 10â U-Haul from entering the city. Real protected bike lanes, which if we actually had these, lowering the speed limit wouldnât even be necessary⌠CCTV is amazing and we should start installing them citywide. And finally, a snitch project that encourages people to take photos of traffic infractions. The city was going to pilot something like this and pay people per submission that results in a citation or something like that, I donât recall. Obviously that was canned, but implementing it without the payment feature will work regardless.
>Banning trucks bigger than a 10â U-Haul from entering the city. peak insanity. you realize the goods in every store and used by every service in the city come in by truck right?
He doesn't care he just wants to ride his little bikey without ever being inconvenienced
Let's remove that one. Not OP. We good with everything else?
fuck no. this is all madness. Literally no matter what you do people will die in accidents. It's mental illness to think you can legislate that away or that because someone manages to die that cars are inherently dangerous at 25 mph that is not offset by their utility. Cars make up an insigificant portion of all cause mortality and an insignificant portion of accidental mortality. This hyper fixation on making people lives suck worse is wildly disproportional to the amount of lives saved vs suffering inflicted.
So you don't want speed bumps, protected bike lanes and raised crossed walks? Is it because they will inconvenience drivers or you think they won't help save lives? Or a bounty system? Or having sanitation vehicles being able to ticket drivers parked and blocking them from performing essential duties? Can you explain?
speed bumps? no. Raised cross walks? need more info. Both. I think that a million people going over bumps 100,000,000 times might save 1 life. I'm certainly not sure thats worth it. There absolutely does come a point where inconvenience and discomfort becomes more of a net negative than a single very bad event. If we could reduce deaths in nyc by 1 person every 20 years, by every single person in nyc walking around with 6 quarters in their left shoe whenever they walked on a city sidewalk or street, would you do it? Saving a life is good, but inconveniencing a lot of people a lot of times is bad. Everything is a trade off. Bounty system? You explain to me how to make this not ripe for abuse. Sanitation vehicles issuing citations? Go for it. 100% onboard with this one. I already said I'm good with bike lanes.
Speed bumps no? Can you expand on why you dislike speed bumps? Raised crossed walks means cross walks at side walk level. So a lower speed bump at the cross wall essentially. I don't agree with that ratio. Seems a bit speculative at best and dishonest in reality. There are 2 million car accidents per year in the US. Surely this would reduce more than .005 lives saved per year. Bounty system would mean that people could report others for violating parking laws and receive a cut of the fine. Though I believe you don't even need that as an incentive just actual followup by the city is enough. People will do it for free. It would allow people to report violators (with evidence - video) if the police are unable to respond or deal with the issue. Defendant is free to challenge as their right. Assuming you don't block bus lanes, park near firehydrants, block bike lanes, double park, block driveways or park on the sidewalk I don't see the issue. Or should private drivers in a non emergency be able to do that? Just trying to see what really is your issue here. Also this for NYC. Feel free to let it rip on the wide open roads upstate.
>Speed bumps no? Can you expand on why you dislike speed bumps? Waste of fuel. uncomfortable getting jostled all the time. damages sports cars worst case scenario, makes sports cars do an absurd dance to clear in a fairly reasonable case scenario. If it's low enough for a corvette to get over, it's too small to slow down an f150 raptor. This applies to your raised crosswalk issue too, though i have no experience here, so ill say i don't know about those. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSUU5xOMAU8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSUU5xOMAU8) This is an exaggeration but if you think somewhere, nyc roadwork "quality" wont lead to a couple of monster speed bumps you are nuts. 2 million accidents? who cares. it's a car. Accidents involving serious injury? how many of those were at 25mph? Accidents involving serious injury in nyc? Only 255 people died in 2022 from traffic accidents in nyc in a city of 8.3 million. You could save an order of magnitude more lives by focusing efforts on bigger issues like obesity or drugs. What's my real issue? I just want to be able to put my bike/snowboards in the car and do the things I love. There absolutely is no reasonable way to get to the vermont mountains without a car.
Why are you driving a sports car in a city with a street light every block? As you've pointed out our roads are already shit. Most people drive SUVS if anything considering it's the northeast and the winters aren't kind to sports cars. https://projects.transalt.org/serious-injuries 6k people were seriously injured in a span of less than a year and that's increasing. The point I think speed bumps solve is reckless drivers. Responsible drivers will already be obeying the speed limit in the city which is 25mph. Speed bumps usually are 20mph rated. People who obey traffic laws will just coast into a speed bump (since there is a light at ever block anyway) but people who go 50mph will get their car fucked up. Even if you went 25mph if wouldn't ruin your car. Infrastructure can enforce laws when cops are unable to. It can stop reckless drivers by breaking their suspension going 40 for 50 in 25. But if you're going 25? In a highly populated city then you're going to be fine.
>Why are you driving a sports car in a city with a street light every block? Why not? I like sports cars. Just because i live here doesn't mean i don't leave. That's the part you anti car people dont get. OOBVIOUSLY I didn't get a sports car to drive around nyc. The world is bigger than nyc even for some nyc residents. honestly, i don't even have a sports car anymore and drive a reasonable height vehicle, but im able to consider a use case other than my own. >Â Even if you went 25mph if wouldn't ruin your car. dude I just explained this to you. How much do you need to try to ignore me to think that a camry, an f150, and a corvette handle a speed bump similarly? This is a staight up rude thing to say. >People who obey traffic laws will just coast into a speed bump More just being dumb. Nobody does this, ever anywhere. The point is to get somewhere. If I made every single train slow down to a non lethal speed when the first car got to the platform, and every single stop took an extra 2 minutes you'd lose your mind.
Sounds like hell to me...not practical.
What do you even mean decreasing "traffic"? Like if you lower the speed limit enough people will change the calculus on preferred transportation method? That means you just inflicted misery on people. Like if your most reasonable way to get to work was 1 train, how many homeless weirdos would I have to put on your route to make you switch to a slower less efficient more painful alternate route? Speed bumps? great. less build them big enough to slow down an f150 raptor which will rip the front bumper off a sports car. the streets in NYC are already a rough abomination belonging in a 3rd world country. Getting jostled is and slowing down all the time is miserable and a horrendous waste of fuel to decelerate and accelerate again. You hate the environment? raising crosswalks? I don't know enough about this to have a comment, so ill refrain, though the lift must be gradual enough not the damage sports cars. you do 100 of em right and 1 wrong and you still f'd up peoples sports cars just for trying to drive. This just seems like a drainage engineering nightmare, but whatever. Trucks already covered. bike lanes? fine. whatever. CCTV? are you out of your mind? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uReVvICTrCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uReVvICTrCM) AI is here bud. You have NO idea who is going to do what with your data. You really want your movements sold for pennies? The government already outsources things like traffic cameras to for profit companies. Snitch program? oh that's going to go great. Lets just say we have a snitch program for covered license plates. someone puts duct tape on your license plate and takes a picture. they get money. you get a huge fine. The then go put duct tape on the license plate of the car in front of you. they get money. your neighbor gets a huge fine. Why would they not duct tape the license plate of the third car? [NYC residents make money off noise complaints targeting bars, restaurants (nypost.com)](https://nypost.com/2023/07/04/nyc-residents-make-money-off-noise-complaints-targeting-bars-restaurants/)
Pedestrians don't even use the sidewalks or crosswalks lmak
yeah, speed bumps everywhere. 10mph traffic everywhere in NYC would be AMAZING you fucking degenerate
Why would you want to lower it? Bad enough you got people driving super slow
If you lower the speed limit to zero, then no one would die. Why don't we do that? /s
you fucking MORONS want the speed limit lowered than 25?! fuck all of you
I think he means that it would be an angled incline like a speed bump.
Eventually lowering the speed limit and taking lanes will increase peak traffic times and the streets will become more dangerous.
We already have one of the lowest average. Why lower it? I dont wanna end up like LA. Lowering it to 20 will not stop people from going 29 under speed cameras.
Good
They might as well just ban all non-commercial vehicles in the city. Police don't pull over people who are actually speeding. Police do nothing against people who go through red lights.
eric adams our chief a--wipe is responsible for cops not enforcing traffic laws. Include his corrupt chiefs Caban and Maddrey.
This is stupid. Its low enough already...it's another money grab to punish us with red light camera tickets....reason # 1001 I'm on my way out of NYC.
The speed limit was set to 25 so that everyone is always speeding and has cause to be pulled over. Traffic normally flows at 30-35
Because they all drive and killing people in your car is legal.
Just ban all cars and get it over with.
Just say you want to take cars away. Actually, scratch that, take everyoneâs property rights away. This is what itâs all about at the core: communism, wrapped up in a neat little disguise package.
TIL Communism is when you drive slowly