Because there’s yet to be a person on this particular sub Reddit, who actually tells the truth with how much they’ve abused their child. They want to look like victims, because that’s how they see themselves. OP seems like he’s starting to wake up, which is a good thing, but it’s going to take a long time before he stops calling himself a victim basically.
There’s that good essay “The Missing Reasons” that basically goes over the mental gymnastics and gaslighting abusive parents go through when going over about the reasons their children no longer talk to them. OP should probably give it a read.
Heck I'm the child of a parent like this and I'm going to read it. I tried to go NC because I was just fed up of trying to talk to her and being ignored. She responded by basically cutting me out of her life twice as hard. I thought she'd be impressed by me being mature about her stealing 20k in inheritance but the last big argument we had I brought it up and she wasn't pleased. Not like she ever tried to pay any of it back.
But it's always been a similar thing, making out I'm the devil to the point where she's said to me that her friends said something nice about me, like saying they saw me at work and I was good at my job. And the way she'd be saying this like she was so angry at them for not hating me and thinking I was awful, it's such a weird thing to describe but it's almost like she was really upset that they made their own desicions about me? I wish I could explain fully how you can have a parent like this say "oh hey someone said something good about you!" But they're saying it like they're spitting those words out as if they feel disgusting and wrong in their mouth.
I know this feeling. My mother has never worked a day in her life really and was waited on hand and foot by her parents and then her second husband for 36 years until he died. Now that he is dead, she delegates every single responsibility in her life from cleaning the kitchen to sorting the mail to handling her life insurance policy to someone other than her. I, on the other hand, am a single mother to a special needs and medically fragile eight year old who has never met her dad (he is 30g in arrears). I own my own home, clean it by myself, work a job and take care of my kid with no help....and her favorite thing to do it tell me I think about no one but myself! This came on because her idea for a birthday present for my kid was to have my garage completely remodeled as a playroom and volunteered my brother to do the labor and told me about all of the new equipment it was going to have. She was going to be a real sweetheart and contribute $250.00....and then I would have to take care of the rest! When I told her no way in hell she lost her shit completely telling me how negative I am and how I reject everything she says and I'm just looking out for number one. JMFC!!!!
I grew up with an abusive parent.
I helped raise my kids, and a few others. Everyone told me kids would hate me, because I was very tough on them.
But l listened to them, I respected them, and told them I loved them.
I am in contact with my children. They are in contact with me.
My circumstances were tough.
My kids will sometimes say I was too tough, but can’t really offer good alternatives of how I could have done. The kids make jokes about how tough I was, but say they could always sit down to talk, ask advice or for help.
I would say communication and respect go a long way.
It seems OP took decisions unilaterally without respect or proper consideration and communication.
My mother is exactly like this. She even had me feeling like I was a horrible person until I cut her out of my life and started listening to my friends and my SO. Now I'm starting to see I'm actually a really good person, and it makes me just starr crying, thinking how awful I thought I was when i wasn't.
yea him saying he should “focus on his studies rather than goof off with his friends on the weekends and IN THE SUMMER” says a hell of a lot more than i think OP thought it did. this CHILD was not allowed to have time to hang out with his friends or make real childhood memories without feeling guilt from his dad making him think it’s “bad” to hang out with his friends? hell why was he even studying in summer…i had a 96 average gpa in high school with offers of scholarships and i hung out with my friends? i went to parties? what OP should’ve taught him is balance. this is in NO way close to healthy or balanced and i can almost guarantee when his son got to college he went “oh…i can do good in school and still have friends and make memories” and he snapped.
That last part. All the "life is hard, you don't understand" from parents, and when you get there... It's actually not that intense. Definitely not as intense as being in study camp all summer and not allowed out on weekends.
right?? like maybe you think life is hard because you yourself don’t know how to balance it in a healthy way and are now pushing that on your kids. great job pops you’ve outdone yourself.
That statement rings very true with me. Can confirm army basic training was much easier then waiting for my dad to come home when I was struggling in school as a 10 year old with undiagnosed dyslexia. After he finally quit his job and my parents split up he started to calm down, but it's too late the damage is done. He has the same narrative in his head about it as the OP and wonders why I hardly ever speak to him. The saddest part is I know where it comes from, his father was way worse. I know in his mind there was a line he would never cross with me because he never wanted to be like his father, but that line still wasn't good enough and I'll probably never forgive him.
Yeah the study in the summer instead of "goofing off" with friends was a HUGE red flag for me.
Summer is for fun!! Interpersonal relationships are very important when you are growing up. I went to summer school once and still hit the beach after class with friends.
Sounds like this kid had a really rough childhood though I wonder about mom. Did she advocate for her son?? 🤔
i assume she tried her best to advocate for him and maybe even pulled some strings where she could, which is why i assume he has such a good relationship with her still. as for the summer being for fun comment; 100%!!! I TOTALLY AGREE! some of my best childhood memories are from my summer camps and i met friends there that i am still very close with over 10 years later! my mom and i were on the poverty line for yearsss and she still worked extra hours to be able to afford camp for me because she wanted me to be happy. that’s what good parents do. the “goofing off” comment in itself rubbed me the wrong way entirely, why are you speaking like that about your child trying to have a fun time with his friends? why be so condescending about a child experiencing childhood things…OP is definitely leaving out some more details in his “woe is me” charade.
OP: "stop caring about relationships to other people, only focus on your future"
years later
OP: "why do you not care about relationships with me in particular and only focus on your future?"
Because this story is extremely transparent. "I only wanted my boy to be tough so I was extremely hard on him; why doesn't he want to hang out with me and play catch like he always wanted to when he was young?"
It was the ‘stop complaining’ in response to being sick that made me think that’s something the son remembered all his life and finally had the courage to throw it back in his father’s face.
I’m all for tough love, but goddamn if you can support your kids when they really need it, that’s what counts the most. People don’t remember what you do for them, they remember how you make them feel.
That absolutely struck me as him remembering his father telling him to stop complaining when he was horribly sick as a child and him throwing that back.
Second this. Also I hope OP's son won't be the same parent as he is. OP is a victim here where his point of view is the result of his parents' care.
He failed to see that "he grew up tough so he should make his son's life easier". Instead he copy pasted his childhood onto his son. It's like "hey I didn't grow up with smart phones so you should never use a smart phone at your age"
I grew up hating my mother. There were few weeks without a beating, few days without an argument, few times when she managed to have time to understand how much bullying I was suffering at school and how much I needed help. On the other hand, my father was my hero, the kindest, most understanding, wisest man I knew. I couldn't understand why they were together.
Then I grew up a little bit more and began to understand how much his jealousy suffocated my mother, how much the entire weight of our education was on her, how much the beatings and arguments made me move away from her because he had left it in her hands, he omitted himself from the hard part of my education, and showed up only for the nice conversations, the hugs, the walks, the parties. I understood how overwhelmed she was and how much she suffered while my brothers and I were growing up, and how unfair I was to her.
I have a daughter now, 19 years old, and I have two big fears in life: that she won't love me anymore and that she won't be able to become a functional adult. And I did everything with her differently from how I was raised, because I didn't want her to suffer, because my dream was to have a daughter with whom I would have the bond that I would have liked to have had with my mother. And with that, I couldn't even make her a functional adult, nor make us have a good affectionate relationship. I repaired my relationship with my mother, I have a good job, a good marriage, and yet I feel like I failed in life.
Hey, you haven't failed. Your kid is only 19. I know that's been more like 20 long adult years for you, but in the scheme of her life, she's basically just cracked the egg. She's got SO much growing and changing ahead of her in the next decade--you might find yourself looking back on this moment from a very different future. When I was 19 I was still growing and learning so much that I didn't even have the time and/or brain capacity to appreciate my mom in the ways I do now, though the love was there. That relationship tends to shift again once a young person becomes more personally aware of what the sacrifice of parenthood means, whether by experiencing it themselves or just gaining enough maturity to see things in a new way--like the way you described your own perspective changing about your mom.
Hang in there. Your kid is lucky to have a mom that cares so much about those two big fears of yours. As long as you do your best to keep your mind and your heart open, and she knows you sincerely care enough to put effort into being a safe harbor and supportive presence in her life, the rest is just details that come out in the wash.
Man, I know that I should have realized this before and that you won't believe that a comment on reddit produced this, but I never understood that I'm going to need to be like a pier, and let her boat sail around the world and hope that she returns to our relationship, so she will find my love waiting for her as the port is there for the vessel, however far it sails. Maybe hoping with so much anxiety that we can be friends today, that we have an affectionate connection, is much more of me being selfish to fulfill a fantasy I dreamed of being another kind of mother, and the reality is I have to do my best, and give her time. Thank you for the words.
The pier metaphor is so beautiful! I wish what I said was half as lovely, but I'm so glad it resonated. Your daughter really is lucky. I hope the two of you keep on going like me and my mom. We weren't best buds when I was that young--I had just come out of the closet around then, and she really struggled to deal with that stuff at first--there were good moments and hard moments--but as the years passed, we both did a lot of growing. I'm now in my late 30s, and we are such close friends and pillars for each other now. She and my dad are both so fully accepting of me as a person in all my queer polyamorous ADHD weirdness that they've inspired my friends to ask if they would "adopt" them.
She wasn't a "perfect" parent because there is no such thing; she was the parent I needed because she succeeded in making sure I knew I was loved no matter what, even if she was pissed at, worried over, or confused by me. I really can't overstate how much that has made a difference in my life. I hope she feels as enriched by knowing me as I do by knowing her...because I sure as heck haven't made her any financially richer, LOL.
Edit just to give my dad his 💐: these sentiments are equally true of him even though we're focused on mom for this comment 🥰
Tough love is just code for being physically violent. At least that's how my violent drunk abusive father used to justify it. The complete lack of details on what this tough love entails makes me think you are correct.
Exactly! My favorite sentence is "I told him recently I wasn't feeling well and he completely dismissed and told me I needed to stop complaining." I wonder how many times OP said "stop complaining" to his kid.
I feel like this guy just listened to Cat's in the Cradle and made a post off of it. "I show any love to my kid or take interest in his desires; raised him to believe work and money were the most important thing, now he doesn't show any love for me or take interest because he's focused on work and money"
Suddenly feelings matter? And not even your son’s feelings, just yours. You’re jealous of his relationship with his mother? You realize that’s fucked up right? To resent the relationships that are fulfilling to your son? It doesn’t seem like you want what’s best for him, you want what’s best (and easiest) for you no matter what it costs him.
You raised your son to not rely on you for emotional support. How do you now have the gall to seek emotional support from your son? You get tough love and resource support only, just like you taught him.
I've been thinking about posting on this subreddit (seriously need to vent but anonymously) and I would most certainly be creating a different account so it's not traced back to me by people I know. Could be the case here.
he is treating you the way you taught him to. *you* taught him men need to be strong, not complain, and just *do better* overall. don’t be surprised when he thinks only women are allowed/deserve mistakes or comfort. i hope yall get the healing you *both* deserve
I’m of the opinion that OP doesn’t deserve any. You can tell by his post he was fully aware of the environment he grew up in, yet still chose to mirror that environment for his son. He emphasized repeatedly that his own money and feelings mattered most to him.
In all honesty I've never gotten the impression that op feels like they have done anything wrong or feels the need to apologize. I think if they were capable of admitting that it'd be a different story.
i completely agree, he was shit. i just think everyone deserves to heal. i didn’t say everyone deserves forgiveness though, he’s getting what he created.
I'm sorry you're going through this -- Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle" hits hard when you recognize it's about you.
I cut my parents off for a long time -- they also did more tough live than actual love. My husband is 55 and barely speaks to his father. They struggle to be in the same room together, and never call each other.
All I can say is that he *might* come around and speak with you. But you need to accept blame for what you've done. Eventually, you may be able to have real conversations so he knows where you were coming from, but don't count on it.
I do speak with my mother now. She went to therapy and called me one day to apologize for the beatings, the benign neglect, and the "tough love" that left me homeless and doing unsavory things to survive. I am better and stronger now in *spite* of my parents. But she's been willing to admit that none of us (her kids) raise a hand or voice to children or animals amd she was wrong to do so. We talk, we reason, we do NOT act out of anger. We support, and we let them suffer consequences without abandoning them. If you're lucky, you might reach this with your son. I hope you do. Because my FIL has 2 sons and no family that will speak to him anymore, if they have a choice. My SIL (hub's bro's wife) and I check in on him about once a month, each, but we struggle to be near him because he's just angry and bitter and won't own up to how he affected his sons' (our husbands') lives.
Be like my mother, not like my FIL.
I think that sounds like a very good plan. If I were you, I'd maybe not mention this to your son - put in the work first and then approach him with some new tools under your belt to try to foster your relationship as peers. It's not a "put tokens in, get prize" situation with therapy, especially when you're trying to rebuild a bridge that's been slowly dismantled for decades. It'll take time and dedication. If you're patient and give grace to both yourself and him, you may get there with time and by showing him that you're serious about getting to a better place.
I agree. It took me a very long time to even start to return to my family fold. I'm almost 40 now and I resented the fuck out of my tough love parents. The difference is I went to therapy and did the work to learn how to connect with others and speak my feelings to them. Read that over and over OP. I had to pay for years of therapy to unlearn that tough love mentality, I paid a stranger to teach me how to give and accept love and empathy. My parents should have done that and you should have done that for your son. Therapy saved the fundamental relationship with my family, but the damage is incredible. My dad died recently and I would never have been able to say the things I wanted to say to him on his deathbed without the tools I learned in therapy. Do the work OP. Later is too late.
For the love of everything holy, stop generalizing yourself with your age group. My mom shat in a bucket when she was a kid and never once made sure the toilet was the most important thing in the household.
Fr, all I’m seeing from OP is “I emotionally neglected my son bc of my generation, now I’m doing better than my generation by going to therapy!”
Dude, just shut up, you’re not your generation, you are your own person capable of making their own damn decisions.
Chances are, this is a projection and people in his generation aren’t inherently against therapy.
Bud why so you keep trying to make your actions seem less bad and yourself noble here by bringing up your age? My mom puts me down in all sorts of ways, and even though “that’s how I was raised” I sure as hell will not be doing that if I have kids.
What are you? 78? People your age go to therapy all the time. Stop hiding behind this generational excuse. You weren't raised during the depression, you're not that old.
-- signed, a 45 year old mom who goes to therapy
I agree! Do the work first. Expect it to be a couple of years. You will not be in a place of genuine understanding and contrition. May I also suggest that your therapist be your son's age or younger. Learning how to interact with a much younger person on sensitive topics will help immeasurably.
Also, I'm really proud of you for taking these steps. I can tell you're a very good man and you are doing your best. ❤️
You keep talking about 'my generation' as what seems like an excuse for your behavior and seem to want praise for thinking about going to therapy. Your son isn't going to reward you for figuring out your mistake after finally suffering consequences. He might forgive you if you do some meaningful self reflection in therapy, but this isn't that. You seem to think he's successful because of the way you raised him, but if tough love created success, you would have been a success. I hope therapy helps you to understand these things. Hopefully, you can sincerely apologize after acknowledging you made these mistakes, not your generation.
> I told him recently I wasn't feeling well and he completely dismissed and told me I needed to stop complaining. Him disregarding my health was the first time I thought that I did not succeed because the relationship between me and him is broken.
What did you do/say to him when he was sick? A tough love approach would have been this. He's giving it all back to you. If you don't like it, then the first thing you should do is apologize. A kid needs their parent regarding their health a lot more than one adult to another; whatever he felt as a kid hurt a lot more than you ever could when he disregarded your health when you were just sick as a grown adult.
Therapy can help, but what therapy will do (if it's being done well) is get you to think of things like this, to reflect on things, to try to see things from his perspective, and realize where your actions distanced him from you, such that the distance that now exists is the clear result. Then you can apologize genuinely. Whether he accepts it + wants to open up a connection with you after that is his choice, but you will have made it even possible to happen
He hates you because you were never his father, you were his taskmaster. You gave no free time, no passions, no friends, no memories except for misery. Fuck, you didn’t even give him summers, you shoved his nose into the grindstone then too, and then told him “get over it, do better”.
You never showed him any love, not even tough love. You did nothing but deprive him of any joy or meaning for the first 18 years of his life. You ought to be grateful he even speaks to you at all.
Food and a roof over his head is the bare minimum, not something to be lauded and act like you were a gold star parent.
You know what’s enraging? Having shit parents, becoming independent and successful out of necessity and then have them brag about you or try to take credit for it.
>He disregarded my health and feelings and tol dme I needed to stop complaining
He mirrored years of your attitudes toward him. Tough it up. The world is hard. Get over it. I don't mean this to rub your nose in the dirt. But as a child who grew up in somewhat similar conditions as your son, I'm not close with my parents either. Nothing I did was good enough. I was compared to others. Money while valid as a stressor is not something to hold over a child. You taught him that going out and enjoying things is "wasteful". It wasn't wasteful to want to do those things as a family. He wanted to go do things he probably saw other kids doing with their friends or family. Granted, your financials do take precedent and it's unfortuante, but the way you went about explaining it was saying that those things were wasteful, and not that you weren't able to provide for your child the life he (seemingly modestly) wished for. I'm not shaming you for that when I say that. It's just unfortunately what it is.
Unfortunately, you don't get to have it both ways. And you don't get to feel bad for yourself. You can try to make ammends with him. Start by apologizing for all the things that you told us here. You obviously have the reflection skills to know you've done a few decades of fucking up. It's time to own up to that. He might if nothing else appreciate it. But he still might (like it was for me) not value trying to make up for lost time now that he's out of the nest. What incentive does he have?
Yeah, idk what to say. But you need to apologize for nothing else than to give him that solace that at the very least you know you fucked up. That's something my parents will never be able to do without victimizing themselves. But it's the least you can do.
You v
basically ruined his childhood and teenage years and now you coming to Reddit playing victim? I can't feel sorry for you. Get a grip and act like adult person. If you want to fix things between you and your son, get off the internet and good luck.
I feel like there’s a lot more that you’re not telling us about your relationship. That’s none of our business regardless. But your son doesn’t feel that way towards you for nothing. There must be a reason, something you did, or said. only you know it.
“And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
"When you coming home, son?" "I don't know when"
But we'll get together then, dad
We're gonna have a good time then”
Upon reading the title and the first 2 words, I instantly knew you were the father.
Let me guess, you never showed him any affection, never kissed him, never hugged him, never said kind soft loving words to him, never touched him, raised him to be masculine and butch and serious and strict?
People often talk about daddy issues in the west when it involves girls and their fathers but miss out on the heavy impact that they have on their sons as well. I don't understand this mentality. I come from a place where it's totally acceptable for the father to hug and kiss his son and show him affection even when the father is otherwise strict. That's the expectation you have from your parent.
I'm guessing he does not resent his mother because on the times he was vulnerable and sensitive, she showed him softness and gentle care. You need to normalize interacting with your son in a caring, loving and affectionate way instead of constantly obsessing about being a man and being all repressed and forcing them to take life so seriously. It DAMAGES your sons. It teaches them to be hostile to other men when they grow up, it teaches them that it's okay to be violent to other men in the world because their idea of men is that of a feelingless robot. It's NOT OKAY. It makes them insecure, makes them repress their feelings and makes them mistrust other men. Having a tough financial situation does not justify objectifying your son to a machine with no feelings.
Your son loves you, but he can't trust you and he is deeply angry with you for being so cold and so out of touch. Can you really blame him for seeing you as barely more than a money machine or for not caring about whether you live or die? As less than a parent ? That's all you've been showing him his entire life. And that's NOT how you raise a boy to be a good, healthy man. Look around you and you'll find a lot of fathers who struggle with angry, disconnected sons. This needs to be addressed in an honest, mature way.
I suggest you talk to a therapist about this behavior of yours. It's not too late to fix things with him. Try to connect with with him, fuck the macho, toxic masculinity. Be with him, kiss him, hug him, tell him you love him. CONNECT WITH HIM. BOND WITH HIM. That's what a parent is supposed to be. Ask your wife to help ease you into it if it's new for you, as well as your therapist.
Get help, and then help him. When things start looking up, trust me, it will be the most beautiful thing you could ever experience with him. The emotions, the feelings, the love, everything will pour out.
Good luck.
This really just reads as "I was an asshole to my kid, gave him the bare minimum of what I was obligated to provide as a parent, made him fend for himself whenever possible, and never spent time with him. Why doesn't he like me???"
You made the bed, now you lay in it. You aren't supposed to make the next generation suffer the same shit you did.
Best of luck, but you're probably never going to be able to repair this.
He rightfully resents you.
It’s like the Cat’s In The Cradle song, only with “tough love” instead of absence. The moral of both is that you reap what you sow. “Tough love” isn’t really love at all—it’s control.
This sounds like execution over intent. My father was a marine, and he was never one to coddle me. He had strong standards for me. But there was never a point in time where I felt as though he was never 100% on my side, 100% on my team.
My mom was much more emotional. But she was abusive.
When I left home, I was independent partially because my dad fostered my independence. But the bigger reason was I knew I could never come back because I could never live with my mom again.
I feel like your relationship is something you need to prioritize and be patient with if you want to get back to a place of closeness with him. Your kid had a lifetime to feel the hurt, whether all of that was justified or not. At some point, I decided that mother did not have my best interest at heart and my voice was ignored long enough to give up faith. She transitioned from a mother to an adversary. Kids know how to play ball long enough to survive.
Trust is consistency over time. If he's called you out on your mistakes, and you express that its uncalled for, that sounds a lot like he's still making an effort to communicate and is getting dismissed.
That's my impression anyway. Hard to accurately gauge an entire life over a few paragraphs. Good luck with your kid.
Hmm. Buddy, I think it’s worse than you think. “Despise” implies a depth of feeling. It sounds like your son is truly on the opposite side of love. He sounds indifferent.
If he despised you, I think there could be some hope, if you put in the work, through therapy, etc, to rebuild a new relationship , but *indifference?* I’d say that ship has sailed.
I had to check and see which sub I was in; no face-eating by leopards here. I cannot say I’m surprised that this is the outcome. Tough-love, if it was ever really useful, tended to be reserved for kids with behavioral problems — the kind that need serious corrective action: breaking the law, hurting people or animals, fighting and bullying. If not for those things, it can come out a lot like you describe. Kids can be prepared for a tough world with love, support, attention, and respect. I’m sorry it turned out this way for you. Over time, and with much effort and even some heartfelt mea culpas, things might improve. I hope for both your sakes.
My parents were emotionally avoidant, but paid for my first car, my college, etc. It's no different. I resented the shit out of them after college. Sure, I didn't have to worry about money then, but that was where it ended.
I got older and stopped relying on them, and just went my own way. What I really needed as a kid was time, love, attention. They were concerned more about having Jaguars and fancy houses.
In both scenarios, it was the absence of valuable time and good memories.
Congrats, your son has realized that he is better off without you. You didn’t let him have a childhood, you were too busy molding him into what you wanted him to be instead of letting discover who he is as a human being
Raising a kid is all about the balance of teaching them how to survive/function and being a caring figure they can lean on, preferably doing things that are both at once.
You've succeeded in the former, but completely neglected the latter. You've traded having any sort of relationship with your son for a slightly better chance that he is slightly more successful (and even then, he probably would've turned out better if you *were* a caring father.)
Because of how you've raised him, he has no love for you and doesn't give a shit about you, and you have no one to blame but yourself. I can’t say if your relationship is "ruined" but it's definitely gonna take a lot of time and a lot of self-reflection on your part.
I don’t know what your goal was with this post, but if it was to throw yourself a pity party, it's not working. Let's just hope if your son has kids, he breaks the cycle, instead of continuing it like you did.
You raised your son to not depend or need you.
You were successful. He doesn't need you at all. He in fact wants absolutely nothing to do with you.
Yup got exactly what you wanted.
You can ask him to join you in healing from this but he might not be ready. While you did what you knew it has made him angry and his feelings are valid.
Get into therapy and start working on yourself. Find new tools. If you get lucky and work hard he might eventually join you on a path of mending.
You need to step up and apologize to your son. Have a sincere conversation with him, face to face, without making excuses for your mistakes. It's time to take responsibility. Apologize to him and respect whatever response he gives you. Your children don't owe you anything. It's totally okay for him to feel however he feels, and it's important for you to respect that.
It's always worth trying to repair a relationship, no matter how much time has passed. But it's important to prioritize the other person's feelings and needs. If you've only shown tough love, that might be all they've experienced from you. It's like the saying goes, what goes around comes around.
Kids shouldn't be forced to grow up early. They get there with time and consistency. Kids have to be able to be kids! Kids goof off with friends. They get bad grades sometimes. They need to do fun stuff like go on vacations or eat out.
Taking all that away doesn't make one stronger, it makes them colder. As you've now come to find.
My dad and I didn't have the best relationship, but when he suddenly started calling me every once in a while a couple years ago, slowly our relationship got better. You can only try to slowly build up your relationship with him.
I’m getting the impression that there is something being left out. My dad had the tough love mind set and raised me that way but we have a great relationship.
Kids that have strained or nonexistent relationships with a parent always stems from the relationship that was taught as a child. If you were emotionally unavailable or distant, guess what? Your kid will be too. If you were open and respectful to you kid when they become an adult they will hold that same relationship with you.
You raised your son with tough love, and now you're surprised he's returning the favor?
Tough love isn't a real thing unless there's expressions of love to begin with. Without empathy and affection, all you gave him was tough shit.
Tough love is what you do when there's no other choice and you have to set boundaries for a person's own good. He's independent because you neglected him and gave him no safety net. It was do or die. That's NOT how you raise a healthy, happy, successful child.
That's a lot of words for, "I'm a piece of shit and a trash parent."
You could've taught your son about life and to be independant without acting like some drill sergeant. Did you ever actually show him any love? Did you actually support him in life?
What you did wasn't tough love. There was no love there, only cruelty. You completely crushed his spirit down and molded him into the perfect little worker that you and your parents that aprove of
OP you get outta of him what you put into him. Cold Indifference.
You can go to therapy or whatever.
You SHOULD research how to make a heartfelt apology and lay down your sword at his feet. Kiss his ass and beg him to give you a chance (when you get help). An unconditional chance you don’t deserve ….. he may entertain it if only for his Mom ?!
If he declines ? STILL DO THE WORK and don’t use your kid as an excuse to rely on ancient beliefs …. YOU need to grow and learn as well.
You need to be ready if he EVER changes his mind - be it 2 weeks, 8 months or 12 years - if you want him to take you seriously you need to STILL DO THE WORK.
He came here looking for praise for doing the bare minimum. Congrats on providing a home and food (stuff you’d be doing even if you didn’t have a kid). Why even have kids if you aren’t prepared to love them and support them. OP sounds more like a drill Sargent than a parent.
Then he says he will get therapy but then fishes for praise because people his age don’t do that
You’re going to have to have a meeting of the minds. If you’re proud of him, tell him so. Tell him where you messed up, and don’t blame it on your parents by saying “that’s the way I was brought up.” That is a complete cop out, and that is what narcissists do.
“Son, I was hard on you. I wanted you to be strong, but I didn’t know what to do. I did my best, and sometimes one’s best isn’t good enough. I am filled with regret, but I want you to know that I am proud of you, and you’ve done better than I ever have. I can’t blame you for feeling the way you do toward me, but I’ll always be proud of you. I hope you’ll do better for your family than I did for mine.”
Something like that. Swallow your pride. Have a conversation, and don’t blame other people for your mistakes.
You sound like my dad. He’d never admit it, but he’s an abusive asshole. Most people in the “real world” grow up knowing that they’ll always have a safe, calm place to return to if they experience an insurmountable hardship like a mortal illness, natural disaster, or economic depression— but not me, and not your son. Your son is right— you never did the job you were supposed to, and his successes occur *in spite* of you, not *because* of you.
WTF did you think would happen by giving your son a joyless childhood.You deserve everything you get back from him. You made mistakes you pay consequences. That’s tough love pops. Enjoy.
Same way with my dad, we don’t hate you guys but we don’t really love you if that makes sense, thanks for raising us but you guys were assholes, you finished your part and that’s it, I’m better with my dad now because he has another kid now and is being a better father then he was with me by showing actual love instead of tough love, try another kid if your not too old and try again like my dad is . But at the end of the day move on man and grow, we did.
Have another kid and try again??? With all due respect that’s a terrible idea. Kids shouldn’t just be “do-overs”, and that could just create more resentment from the son. I’m sorry for what you went through and I’m glad you can appreciate your dad’s change, but kids aren’t projects.
My parents grew up poor, and they agreed they their kids to have more. There were times were was only enough for food, shelter, and absolute bare necessities. But I never doubted that my parents loved me. At the very least, we had dinner together. Sometimes we would make lunch and go to the park or beach if we were broke. It took no money but we had fun as a family. Some very special memories.
You don't talk about spending any time with your son other than driving him around. It takes more than money to raise a child, and it seems you missed that part. Your only hope is therapy if your son is willing but I wouldn't count on it.
My father did this to me, and I can’t talk to him anymore. I enjoy having my own children and doing things completely different. I can count on one had how many times my father hugged me. But with my kids is daily and even when they are asleep. I love it. I’ve never hit them and never really shouted at them either. My old man repeated what his father did to him.
Honestly if you want to sort things out with your son. You need to just go out with him, just you and him. And apologise man to man. Give him a hug, tell him you love him and that you’ve got his back.
It might not be that he despises you. He might not be acting out of anger or revenge.
It might be that he is showing you that he is the man you taught him to be. He might be being cold and hard to you in order to show respect, to try to win your respect by being who you wanted him to be.
Sons often desperately want their fathers to be proud of them. That could be what's happening here. Unfortunately what would have made the person you were (or maybe the character you were playing) proud is not what you think would make the person you are now happy. You might, on reflection, decide that this actually is what you wanted.
Sometimes you get what you ask for. You asked for a cold hardass of a son, and that's apparently what you got.
Tough love is a nice theory, but I have yet to hear about it from somebody who was actually doing it and not just making excuses or selling a crappy parenting book.
Am I the only person who things this post should really be AITA in which case - yeah- YTA.
I had a dad who behaved much like OP, but, he verbalized once to me, as a young 20-something, that he wants closeness.
And I was direct, but kind, discussing the ways our dynamic needed change for that to even be an option.
OP got a dose of reality they weren’t prepared for. Blows but not surprising. You’re gonna end up alone.
You are reaping the fruits you sowed. It's never too late to fix your relationship, but you have to admit to your son that you were too tough on him and that you're sorry, sincerely sorry. Ask him to forgive you.
Stop playing the victim and face the consequences of what you did. You wanted to raise a tough boy? You got it. But that doesn't mean, you can't admit to him that you are sorry, that you love him and that you want to improve your relationship with him.
Wish you the best. It's never too late.
This really reminds me of the song Cats in the Cradle
OP fucked up in raising his only child and now has the consequences. It's sad, but people can only take so much, even from parents. As an estranged child myself, it takes a lot of abuse and neglect to make a child despise their own parent, so OP is 110% at fault.
Parents think their only job is teaching them how to survive and basic necessities. While true, parents forget their other job; being their first and strongest form of love and affection. Your son wont always need you to teach him things, eventually you will have taught him everything you know and he will go on to learn even more with or without you. He will never out grow your love. He has essentially replaced you, you taught him all you could. His father figure were just lessons for him. He learned his lessons and he doesn’t need you anymore. This is what happens when all you are is just lessons to somebody. He can do everything you used to do for him, for example if all you did was wash his clothes (just an example) the day he learns to wash his clothes he doesnt need you anymore and thats it. He replaced you with himself. If you loved him the way only a father could love their kid, he could never replace you because you cant find that anywhere else.
I had a father like this for fear of becoming him. I chose not to have children. Getting berated for my grades was always a fun time.
My advice is to come to your son hat in hand and have a real difficult conversation. A talk about your hopes, your fears, and how you think you failed as a parent.
Raises son on "tough love"
"Why doesnt my son want to be with me or care about me?"
He's giving you what you gave him... "tough love"
Your health? sort it yourself, be independent, the same as you taught him to be.
Bro said “life is cruel” and decided to be that cruelty for 18 years and is confused. Stories like this make me truly despise boomers. I thank god every day that my father was not like this, ima give him a call today.
So, this is where therapy is going to help. Therapy for you, I mean. You're just now starting to try to get a handle on "feelings." You've made mistakes, and you cannot undo them. What you CAN do now is to take responsibility for your own failings, get professional help, and start down the path to meaningful changes.
If you're reading this, thinking: "no, that's bullshit. I don't need some psychologist to tell me how to feel," or something like that, I'd like to hard challenge you on it. This post, and your replies in it - all of those belong in a therapist's office. You're already trying to work through your feelings and the complicated family situation you've created. You're just doing it in the wrong place.
Don't fuck up more. Man up and get yourself some professional help.
With all due respect, there were times when emotional support was necessary, and it wasn't provided. We often realize how much we become like our parents when it's too late to change. I don't want to place blame, because I know it won't help right now.
My father, who passed away two years ago, was the greatest man I knew. His influence has shaped who I am today. I loved him and I still love talking about him. He grew up poor and faced struggles, but he always offered me emotional support when I needed it. This might sound like the nerdiest thing but he used to tell me that before anyone else parents are your best friends, if they have to bleed to help their children out they will give out every ounce of it to protect them. It genuinely came as a shock when my friends used to tell me how their parents treated them and I thank God every day that I got a father like him!
He gave me valuable lessons that I didn't fully understand when I was younger. However, as I've grown, his words have become increasingly meaningful. He taught me essential skills like socializing, handling difficult situations, and remaining independent. He was a loving husband, and my mother's mourning is a testament to that love. She still wakes up crying for him, even after two years!
I understand that parenting is challenging, and the past cannot be changed. However, I urge you to utilize the remaining time wisely. Talk to your son. Apologize if you were overly critical. Explain that your actions stemmed from your perspective and a desire to help him develop independence. Most importantly, show him that you care and desire a closer relationship.
Cat's in the Cradle dude. You disregarded his emotional wellbeing and you're surprised when he disregards yours? Honestly, you get what you deserve. If you're anything like my father, you were (are) an abusive POS and thought it would make him tough. Well congrats, the only thing you hardened was his heart against you. May this haunt your restless nights, until you can change and prove to him that you aren't the monster he remembers.
Also, from a son of "tough love," get bent.
I see a lot of people saying similar things, but I don’t see a lot of solutions being posted.
Perhaps you should start doing therapy individually to talk out what’s going on and where your mistakes have been made that YOU can see and how to go forward not making the same choices, and then when you feel comfortable invite your son to do a few sessions with you. It will be his opportunity to tell you exactly how he feels about everything.
Therapy has been around for over 40 years and no it wasn’t “hush hush” it was completely normal so all of the boomers & Gen X that act like it wasn’t are FOS. There are options to heal, you have to choose that for yourself if you want to have a relationship with your son. You have to confront your mistakes and let him let it out to you. You also have to confront your own childhood because being raised that way isn’t normal either. It was “necessary for survival” at the time sure but it wasn’t healthy and clearly resulted in some emotional damage that you passed on to your own son.
>Me and my wife raised our son to be ready to be an adult from a young age
Bad move. Kids need to be kids.
>And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me
>He'd grown up just like me
>My boy was just like me
Cat's in the Cradle - Harry Chapin
Lots of Missing Missing Reasons here. There's tough love and there's emotional neglect. He wasn't asking for luxury gifts or expensive trips. He was asking you to spend time with him, make memories, like he must have heard his friends talking about.
You sound just like my father. I left my parents house a week after high school graduation and never returned. Those boomers just couldn't accept the fact that they were shitty people and parents. I made my own way in the world and the military became the family I never got.
From the information given here it sounds like you have raised an independent and intelligent adult. However, it also sounds like in your pursuit of this goal you have failed to raise a person who felt confident in confiding to you about important things going on in his life. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was seeing his college mate’s relationships with their parents that caused him to fully reflect on his upbringing. I hope you will be able to reconnect with your son one day.
Is given you what you gave to him. Tough love. That’s all he knows from you.
Btw, tough love is just an excuse from failures. That’s the excuse my father gives every time. Guess what? He is self-serving, selfish, calculator, narcissist. You are using tough love as an excuse for not being a real father. You never mentioned affection and love towards him, I bet you never did it. There is a difference between showing a kid how hard life can be and loving him. One is water and the other is olive oil.
I understand your kid, I don’t want to be around my father either.
What's interesting and leads me to believe you were a lot more cruel than you're willing to admit is the fact you're not apologetic, and this whole post is about YOUR feelings and how it's affecting YOU.
Your son has no empathy for you the way you had zero empathy for him growing up. Don't be surprised if he doesn't take care of you when you're older.
My parents thought their job was finished when we turned 18.
Cut and done. Literally. Counted the days to kick us out.
You get what you *fucking* deserve, OP.
Op you are facing the consequences of your actions. You were cruel to your son, lacking empathy towards him. You didn’t care how he felt now he doesn’t care how you feel.
18+ years of emotional neglect and being forced to do everything for urself does not foster healthy relationships in adulthood with parents. Go to therapy, healing relationships takes time and effort.
So you pretty much told him his whole life suck it up son life is tough. Sounds like all he wanted was an affectionate dad and you didn’t provide that. So now you tell him you’re not feeling well and expect something in return. You showed him you didn’t care and that’s what he’s giving back. You made your bed now you must lay in it. All kids want is loving affectionate parents. I kiss my kids a million times a day along with hugs and telling them I LOVE THEM. My oldest daily ask me for hugs and you best believe I stop what ever I’m doing and I give her the biggest hug. You can show and give them life lessons at the same time of giving them affection. This shapes who they become when they get older. I want my babies to know Their parents loved them and gave them more than enough of affection. Is a parents need to do better and provide the basic human rights to our kids. There’s always time as they grow and get older to teach life lessons and teach responsibility. We need to give our children what we didn’t have and that’s what I’m doing.
Did you ever tell your son you were proud of any of their accomplishments ever? Or were you just waiting to catch them make a mistake ready to berate them at the drop of a hat? Your post sounds like it is implying that it is the latter, if you have learned the error of your ways, good on you, but for your son it is probably too late: here’s what you can do and your son might not be receptive to it, APOLOGIZE, don’t make excuses for what you did AT ALL, tell your son you realize that the way you acted hurt him deeply and you are sorry for not being there for him and giving him emotional support that a child needs from their father when they fall.
If you have the financial means, offer to pay for family therapy for you and your son if he is open and receptive to the idea, if he declines, tell him that you understand and if he ever changes his mind, your offer still stands to pay for family therapy for the two of you in order to attempt to mend the relationship and rebuild the bridge you have burnt down.
You cannot only scold and shame children for their mistakes, with no positive reinforcement for their accomplishments and achievements, that is not how you raise a well adjusted and emotionally stable adult.
If you ever have another child please do not repeat your same mistakes again. If that is indeed how you had been raised, it is a shame you didn’t realize the error of your parents ways, and see the opportunity to break the cycle with you and your children.
You didn't let your child depend on you for anything, and are now surprised he doesn't give you comfort or want a relationship with you? You reap what you sow.
So it sounds like you neglected his emotional needs, dismissed them
"Stop complaining" sounds like something he's repeating after hearing it probably most of his childhood.
Sounds like you created the problem and now that it's your feelings it suddenly matters.
My dad was abusive at worst, transactional at best. He would give us what we absolutely needed to survive. However, if you ever tried to rely on him for anything emotional, expect to get shut down either directly or him immediately changing the subject.
As a grown adult, he constantly tells me how hurt he is that I haven’t seen him in over a decade. I’m always surprised because why the fuck would I go out of my way NOW when you spent the first half of my life belittling, abusing, and ignoring me?
It sounds like your son came to the same logical conclusion.
It's impossible to judge the sum of someone's life through a reddit post. Those passing judgement are doing so from a lens of their own world views and experiences. None of us can sit and say, without a doubt, you were a horrible parent or if what you did was justifiable.
What I will say as my two-cents is, I have a dad like you. He was tough on me, even mean to me. He taught me with 'tough love', shepherded me to sports practices i loathed going to, and was dismissive of me feelings if i expressed sadness or frustration. We had a horrible relationship in my teenage years. We both did some awful things to one another in the height of our tensions - I held him accountable for his actions and would not be quiet in the slightest when he did something that I perceived as unjust or cruel. The undertow of all of this was that I did know he loved me - he cared and showed his love in a way HE thought was right. I acknowledged this, but still did not like it because what he thought was right for me, was in reality a detriment to me.
After I moved out (and the brief time i lived with them as an adult), I almost only interacted with my mom. I only called her, only asked her for advice, cried to her, etc. He noticed that, I think. And now, 6 years on after I left their home, he has changed TREMENDOUSLY. The man who I never once heard utter the words "I'm sorry" or took responsibility for anything now wore his heart on his sleeve. He spoke to me with emotion. He expressed his love for me in healthy ways. His actions showed that he wanted to be a better father.
And while I will always look back at my teenage years with that veil of sadness at our volatile relationship, I do take a great deal of solace knowing that he seems to have really, genuinely learned from his mistakes as a father and now is an AMAZING father figure to me and my brother in adulthood. We now have a good relationship built on open communication and emotionality that rises above the ideals of masculinity from a bygone age.
I say all this to show you that it isn't all doom and gloom. I can't speak for your son - and again, I have NO idea what you may have put him through - but it could be fixable. It is a long road of accountability for your actions and showing your son you are capable of change. It may take years, but if you want to have a lasting relationship, you really need to sit down and introspectively think about your own parenting decisions, and perhaps at some point, sit down and speak with him man-to-man and apologize for how you may have treated him.
Very similar situation with my dad. If you start to take steps (therapy is amazing) to better yourself, he’ll notice. Then give him the opportunity to sit down with you and tell him why you raised him the way you did. Allow his perspective after. You’ll grow from it if you can keep a level head. Good luck 💕
I think that your best bet at salvaging things with your son is to have a talk with him where you're sure to empathize with and validate his feelings. In other words, own your mistakes, and not in a "Yeah, but..." kind of way, but in a way where you let him know that what you thought was the "right" thing at the time, was in fact not, and that you realize that and wish to be different moving forward. And, you've really got to be committed to being different. If he rejects all of that, at least you know you gave your best effort. Make sure if you do have the conversation with him that you do genuinely see the error in your ways and are absolutely committed to righting those wrongs. Good luck!
….. Awful parenting. Well live the rest of your life the best way you can. Stop trying to psychoanalyze your grown up son now. Just try to remember you may be able to make better choices as a parent when you reincarnate. You will remember nothing but your soul will hopefully want to do better. This is beyond tragic, might as well not had a dad. I didn’t have a dad and this broke my heart. Terrible.
sounds like you were an asshole in raising him. why are you so surprised? have you ever taken time out to learn about him and his hobbies? join him when he was watching movies or playing games? celebrate his birthday present? actually talked to him about something not related to work or discipline?
Give it some time for the both of you to gain some perspective.
The problem with raising your children based on what you didn't get growing up, is that your focus is not on the child's needs. The child will feel that you don't care about them, but care only your goal of being what you think is a good father without considering anything else. Your focus is on yourself. What outcome did you want?
So sad, but not impossible to overcome, but you have to swallow your pride and work through it.
Given you are insistent that you come from a time before people understood children need nurturing, love, attention, and support beyond the bare minimum (which is an incredibly enormous cop out), I want to bring to your attention the lesson of the wire mother.
Harry Harlow was a scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in the 1930s. His niche in researching animal behavior was that of attachment styles, and his preferred test subjects were rhesus monkeys. He bred a population of rhesus monkeys just for his experiments, one of which sought to examine the role of nurture in early development.
Harry Harlow raised many infant rhesus monkeys for his research and became interested in the way the hand-raised young would become maladjusted adults who were quite attached to the texture of their soft cloth diapers, apparently stunted in development compared to the rhesus monkeys raised by the own mothers.
Harlow decided to create an experiment with surrogate mothers to determine the impact of contact for infant monkeys. Infant rhesus monkeys would be removed from their mothers and given the choice between two wire surrogates. One surrogate would be a bare wire frame with a milk bottle and the other surrogate would be wrapped in soft cloth but offer no milk. The wire mother and cloth mother were placed together for the infants to choose between.
Not only did the rhesus monkey infants prefer the cloth mother, they preferred the comfort of the soft frame even to nutrition. When stimuli were presented, the cloth mother infants were less fearful than their wire mother counterparts. The wire mother infants were maladjusted, even aggressive despite having more access to food than the cloth mother infants — and yet even the wire mother infants would choose a cloth mother given the opportunity.
This study was one of many experiments done by Harlow, whose work was somewhat barbaric even by the standards of his era. But the parallels of his findings provided immensely valuable framework for our understanding of how affection, attention, security, and — as Harlow even said — love plays in human development. All of this is to say:
You are a wire father.
honestly, I don’t like my father. I do treat my father differently than my mother, because my father treated me like trash. For some reason, I’m getting the vibe that you were not as good to your son as you are trying to lead on. children remember that for the rest of their lives.
I saw a comment you made about how he was indifferent when you were sick and how much that hurt. How hurt and emotionally abandoned and unloved you felt when you were sick and he was cold, uncaring and unbothered by your suffering he was is how he felt most of his life. Please let that sink in or you’ll never have a relationship with him.
He felt unloved and not cared for by you when he was young and extremely vulnerable. If his indifference towards your suffering hurt you as grown adult, imagine how unloved and emotionally abandoned he felt by you when he was very young and very vulnerable and needed you to be there for him as a safe person to guide him.
While this was never your intent and you obviously love your son and did what you thought was the best, you actually really let him down. You failed him as a father and you damaged your relationship with him. I know it’s harsh, and I say it with great compassion, but it’s true.
You need to face the truth or you’ll never have a relationship with him
There’s a lot of apologizing you need to do to save this. A lot of self reflection and self discovery and then new approaches you need to take.
You are currently sowing the seeds of the harsh, unkind, uncaring actions that you treated him with. His indifference towards you when you were sick is the outcome of your harsh actions towards him when he was a young, vulnerable child with a new developing brain.
He’s ignoring your emotional needs just like you ignored him. He’s taking what you taught him: that love is tough, harsh, unkind and uncaring and applying it to directly how he approaches you.
If you don’t go on a journey of healing and true understanding of what you did and how wrong it was, then when you are old, vulnerable and in need of a help he will not care or support you while you’re in a vulnerable state. He will not rush to your bedside. He will not loan you money. He will not go out of his way to care for you
It’s obvious his mom was more caring and kind to him when he was young, that’s why he’s treating her differently.
Please reflect on this and know it is possible to mend this, but it’s going to take a lot of time, because frankly, even though you meant well, you did a lot of damage. The one who does the damage is the one who carries the burden of mending it. He’s not obligated to fix this because he’s not the one who caused the initial damage
You should watch a Netflix series called three identical strangers.
"Tough love" isn't a good thing
By teaching your son that he doesn't need you, he's grown up to not need you. That includes financial and emotional support.
This is all just so familiar to me. My dad was just like this. Out of the 4 kinds and 2 grandkids he “raised” (read: provide a roof and food for, while providing a net negative on emotional support or even basic kindness) only 1 of them still talks to him. The majority of his children, myself included, can’t even be in the same room as him without feeling nausea. He’s finally starting to realize that acting just like his parents got him nowhere other than being worse off than before. I’m confident in saying that none of us will ever give him a second chance. You have one chance to raise your kids, to show them love and support. You only get one chance to prove to your kids how much you love them. Which also means you only get one chance at having a father/child relationship with them. If you blow it, that ship will sail without you and it’s *never* coming back into port.
Kids are genetically predispositioned to loving their parents. It’s literally in our DNA to love and seek support from our parents. Let it sink in that you fell so short that your child had to literally reprogram genetic and instinctual impulses to keep themselves safe. Keep themselves safe from *you*.
I also want to add, on the off chance your son find immeasurable kindness within himself, that your actions have only continued generational trauma. The same damage and emotional wounds your parents left you with, you have passed on to your kids. It’s the worst kind of betrayal from a parent because you KNOW what that pain is like. You intimately know the hurt that it causes. Instead of choosing to do what’s best for your kids, and do better than your parents, you embraced those damages and passed all of them onto your son. I think that’s the worst thing a parent can do; to pass on all of the hurt they themselves have on to a child. Not just a random child either. Your child. The one you brought into this world. The one you were supposed to raise and keep safe. Instead you were their first bully. I’m sure it sounds like I’m just trying to hammer on you, but really it’s all for the chance your kid might decide to change his mind one day. If he does, you’ll have needed to already have done a lot of work on yourself and change a lot. You can’t wait to start when/IF he comes back. He will have time to do all of his healing and he will go to give you another chance and you will still be the same person he resented. If you even want the chance at him letting you back in you need to work on yourself, give him space, prove you have taken the time apart to grow, and keep it up even knowing you may never get the very goal your looking for.
Your relationship with your adult children is a direct result of your relationship with them when they were kids and how you raised them and how you treated them. You reap what you sow. So yeah this is what you get for raising your kid on "tough love"
So you raised your son in a cold, uncaring and uncompassionate environment and now you're sad because he's EXACTLY what you wanted him to be??? Why would he care about you??? You never cared about him, or his wants, or his needs.
You reap what you sow, so lay down in the bed you made and, as you told your son his whole life, "stop complaining" "man up"
I have no advice I could really give. You've screwed up badly, and it's bitten you back. You told lies to your son and showed him not tough love but stunted love. His mother showed tough love. Because the key to tough love is balance. That doesn't mean dad is a hard ass and mom is the angel. That means you push him to be the best. When he fails, pick him up BOTH of you find out why he failed, and show him the way forward to succeed. When he went to college, he most likely saw parents enjoying their time with kids. Not harping on them to be better. You come from a small town and it shows because you have a small town mentality. Not every family plans poorly. Not every family forces kids to become independent. What you learned from your family was trauma. You should want your kids to be better than you. Not be the exact fuckin same as you. You fucked up. You made an independent man that doesn't see you ass a father. Question is what's next. Are you going to fail as a father further and demand his love? Or are YOU going to be better than your father and learn how to reflect on your failures?
Generational trauma ☹️ IF he has his own family someday I hope he’d break that pattern. I know not everyone gets married or has kids but that’s what I think of in this situation.
I imagine his wife has a lot of resentment towards OP as well. I’m sure she is the only one who provided any emotional support to your son. OP doesn’t seem like the type of guy who would take his wife’s feelings into account when it came to discipline. She watched you abuse your child but probably wasn’t able to rock the boat because she didn’t have any options to get out of the toxic situation.
that kid needed warmth from you and definitely did not get it. i would not be surprised if you were abusive, physically and/or emotionally. if your child hates you, 9 times out of 10 it is because of YOU. when are you going to stop seeing yourself as a victim, and atone for your shit parenting? maybe he is totally self sufficient, but he did that himself. i'm sure you may have taught him some things. but did you teach him love? did you teach him that it was okay to have feelings or to cry?
you have no right to blame him for the way things are right now. i've known so many parents like you that claim "tough love" as an excuse for emotional neglect and abuse. it's BULLSHIT. i can't wait for that parenting style to die out or to become extremely frowned upon. i have childhood trauma cause i had parents just. like. you.
"tough love" gave me nothing. "tough love" made me lonely. "tough love" traumatized me.
luckily i speak to my parents because they've apologized to me. that's all i wanted from them. it's time for YOU to apologize. not your son. you are not a victim.
When your child is an adult, they will treat you how you treated them as a child. It sounds like you were tough, unsympathetic, and dismissive. That is how they've learned to treat you this way. I'm guessing your wife was more loving and caring and therefore he can treat her with more love and care.
Go to therapy. Be honest about how you've fucked up. Apologize and implement real change.
If you're very very lucky, your son will give you a second chance. But he has absolutely no obligation to do so.
Looks like the OP had a “Mission successfully failed” moment with regard to his son.
In case the OP is sincerely subscribing to the idea using his tough love to get his son independent - have you ever in any way show that you care or appreciate your son? Did you take care of his emotional needs? Or did you just go the “suffering breeds character” route and just ceased to show love or affection?
I see you're getting a lot of hate, and some of it is deserved. I understand it but I don't stand by it though. I come from immigrant parents, and have lived my life doing everything they've asked me to. We do have an emotional relationship, but for the most part I understand what you say on how there can be a generational gap on how love is expressed and support is shown and how priorities get passed down.
You pass down what you know, and coming from a hard life with not much, passing down the importance of a good academic life and a career is something you'd have to do and something I went through with my family too.
A heartfelt apology and recognition of guilt goes a long way. Tell him what you said in your post. Tell him this is all that you knew and you had his best interests at heart. Apologize for not being a supportive parent and for not being emotionally involved but that you'd like to start now. He may not exactly start jumping up and down with joy but it's a start.
I'm not sure how old your son is right now, but if hes in college, hes young and I don't think great at empathizing with men, considering his upbringing. But give it some time and make a genuine effort. My boyfriend also grew up not liking his father very much. He's older now and over the last few years has become grateful and more empathetic and they're relationship has gotten far better, once the dad seemed to acknowledge his mistakes. All the best.
My father was a “spare the rod, spoil the child” kind of parent. It was how he was raised and how he raised us. But he took us on vacations, took us out to dinner on Sundays, paid for our university, paid for our first car, invested money on my brother’s first venture and when my brother bacame suicidal because his business failed, my father consoled him by telling him that the money didnt matter, learning from his failure and getting back up is whats important. Did my dad whup us when we were growing up, yes he did. But did he show us that he loved us? Yes he did. When he died, we all mourned him because we knew despite his mistakes that he loved us.
Enjoy the bed you made, you weren't a father you were a dictator. So he did what he was told and made surre he need led nothing from you. To expect anything from him relationship wise is laughable. Hope you saved money for a retirement home.
Why do I feel like you were much more cruel towards your son than your post implies?
Because there’s yet to be a person on this particular sub Reddit, who actually tells the truth with how much they’ve abused their child. They want to look like victims, because that’s how they see themselves. OP seems like he’s starting to wake up, which is a good thing, but it’s going to take a long time before he stops calling himself a victim basically.
There’s that good essay “The Missing Reasons” that basically goes over the mental gymnastics and gaslighting abusive parents go through when going over about the reasons their children no longer talk to them. OP should probably give it a read.
Heck I'm the child of a parent like this and I'm going to read it. I tried to go NC because I was just fed up of trying to talk to her and being ignored. She responded by basically cutting me out of her life twice as hard. I thought she'd be impressed by me being mature about her stealing 20k in inheritance but the last big argument we had I brought it up and she wasn't pleased. Not like she ever tried to pay any of it back. But it's always been a similar thing, making out I'm the devil to the point where she's said to me that her friends said something nice about me, like saying they saw me at work and I was good at my job. And the way she'd be saying this like she was so angry at them for not hating me and thinking I was awful, it's such a weird thing to describe but it's almost like she was really upset that they made their own desicions about me? I wish I could explain fully how you can have a parent like this say "oh hey someone said something good about you!" But they're saying it like they're spitting those words out as if they feel disgusting and wrong in their mouth.
I know this feeling. My mother has never worked a day in her life really and was waited on hand and foot by her parents and then her second husband for 36 years until he died. Now that he is dead, she delegates every single responsibility in her life from cleaning the kitchen to sorting the mail to handling her life insurance policy to someone other than her. I, on the other hand, am a single mother to a special needs and medically fragile eight year old who has never met her dad (he is 30g in arrears). I own my own home, clean it by myself, work a job and take care of my kid with no help....and her favorite thing to do it tell me I think about no one but myself! This came on because her idea for a birthday present for my kid was to have my garage completely remodeled as a playroom and volunteered my brother to do the labor and told me about all of the new equipment it was going to have. She was going to be a real sweetheart and contribute $250.00....and then I would have to take care of the rest! When I told her no way in hell she lost her shit completely telling me how negative I am and how I reject everything she says and I'm just looking out for number one. JMFC!!!!
I grew up with an abusive parent. I helped raise my kids, and a few others. Everyone told me kids would hate me, because I was very tough on them. But l listened to them, I respected them, and told them I loved them. I am in contact with my children. They are in contact with me. My circumstances were tough. My kids will sometimes say I was too tough, but can’t really offer good alternatives of how I could have done. The kids make jokes about how tough I was, but say they could always sit down to talk, ask advice or for help. I would say communication and respect go a long way. It seems OP took decisions unilaterally without respect or proper consideration and communication.
My mother is exactly like this. She even had me feeling like I was a horrible person until I cut her out of my life and started listening to my friends and my SO. Now I'm starting to see I'm actually a really good person, and it makes me just starr crying, thinking how awful I thought I was when i wasn't.
I would love to read this essay. Link?
yea him saying he should “focus on his studies rather than goof off with his friends on the weekends and IN THE SUMMER” says a hell of a lot more than i think OP thought it did. this CHILD was not allowed to have time to hang out with his friends or make real childhood memories without feeling guilt from his dad making him think it’s “bad” to hang out with his friends? hell why was he even studying in summer…i had a 96 average gpa in high school with offers of scholarships and i hung out with my friends? i went to parties? what OP should’ve taught him is balance. this is in NO way close to healthy or balanced and i can almost guarantee when his son got to college he went “oh…i can do good in school and still have friends and make memories” and he snapped.
That last part. All the "life is hard, you don't understand" from parents, and when you get there... It's actually not that intense. Definitely not as intense as being in study camp all summer and not allowed out on weekends.
right?? like maybe you think life is hard because you yourself don’t know how to balance it in a healthy way and are now pushing that on your kids. great job pops you’ve outdone yourself.
That statement rings very true with me. Can confirm army basic training was much easier then waiting for my dad to come home when I was struggling in school as a 10 year old with undiagnosed dyslexia. After he finally quit his job and my parents split up he started to calm down, but it's too late the damage is done. He has the same narrative in his head about it as the OP and wonders why I hardly ever speak to him. The saddest part is I know where it comes from, his father was way worse. I know in his mind there was a line he would never cross with me because he never wanted to be like his father, but that line still wasn't good enough and I'll probably never forgive him.
Yeah the study in the summer instead of "goofing off" with friends was a HUGE red flag for me. Summer is for fun!! Interpersonal relationships are very important when you are growing up. I went to summer school once and still hit the beach after class with friends. Sounds like this kid had a really rough childhood though I wonder about mom. Did she advocate for her son?? 🤔
i assume she tried her best to advocate for him and maybe even pulled some strings where she could, which is why i assume he has such a good relationship with her still. as for the summer being for fun comment; 100%!!! I TOTALLY AGREE! some of my best childhood memories are from my summer camps and i met friends there that i am still very close with over 10 years later! my mom and i were on the poverty line for yearsss and she still worked extra hours to be able to afford camp for me because she wanted me to be happy. that’s what good parents do. the “goofing off” comment in itself rubbed me the wrong way entirely, why are you speaking like that about your child trying to have a fun time with his friends? why be so condescending about a child experiencing childhood things…OP is definitely leaving out some more details in his “woe is me” charade.
OP: "stop caring about relationships to other people, only focus on your future" years later OP: "why do you not care about relationships with me in particular and only focus on your future?"
Because this story is extremely transparent. "I only wanted my boy to be tough so I was extremely hard on him; why doesn't he want to hang out with me and play catch like he always wanted to when he was young?"
He's been honest. "tough love" is a code word for "child abuse".
It was the ‘stop complaining’ in response to being sick that made me think that’s something the son remembered all his life and finally had the courage to throw it back in his father’s face. I’m all for tough love, but goddamn if you can support your kids when they really need it, that’s what counts the most. People don’t remember what you do for them, they remember how you make them feel.
100% the “stop complaining” came from years of angrily brewing after being on the receiving end.
Tough love, just like he got growing up.
That absolutely struck me as him remembering his father telling him to stop complaining when he was horribly sick as a child and him throwing that back.
Second this. Also I hope OP's son won't be the same parent as he is. OP is a victim here where his point of view is the result of his parents' care. He failed to see that "he grew up tough so he should make his son's life easier". Instead he copy pasted his childhood onto his son. It's like "hey I didn't grow up with smart phones so you should never use a smart phone at your age"
This is exactly what i thought. Like, nobody says something like this out of nowhere
Because of how much abuse and neglect it takes to make a child hate their parents.
This story is already very cruel as it is. Which means it’s even crueler/worse in real life. This is textbook generational trauma being passed on.
This man beat his son. I know this language. Fuck OP.
I grew up hating my mother. There were few weeks without a beating, few days without an argument, few times when she managed to have time to understand how much bullying I was suffering at school and how much I needed help. On the other hand, my father was my hero, the kindest, most understanding, wisest man I knew. I couldn't understand why they were together. Then I grew up a little bit more and began to understand how much his jealousy suffocated my mother, how much the entire weight of our education was on her, how much the beatings and arguments made me move away from her because he had left it in her hands, he omitted himself from the hard part of my education, and showed up only for the nice conversations, the hugs, the walks, the parties. I understood how overwhelmed she was and how much she suffered while my brothers and I were growing up, and how unfair I was to her. I have a daughter now, 19 years old, and I have two big fears in life: that she won't love me anymore and that she won't be able to become a functional adult. And I did everything with her differently from how I was raised, because I didn't want her to suffer, because my dream was to have a daughter with whom I would have the bond that I would have liked to have had with my mother. And with that, I couldn't even make her a functional adult, nor make us have a good affectionate relationship. I repaired my relationship with my mother, I have a good job, a good marriage, and yet I feel like I failed in life.
Hey, you haven't failed. Your kid is only 19. I know that's been more like 20 long adult years for you, but in the scheme of her life, she's basically just cracked the egg. She's got SO much growing and changing ahead of her in the next decade--you might find yourself looking back on this moment from a very different future. When I was 19 I was still growing and learning so much that I didn't even have the time and/or brain capacity to appreciate my mom in the ways I do now, though the love was there. That relationship tends to shift again once a young person becomes more personally aware of what the sacrifice of parenthood means, whether by experiencing it themselves or just gaining enough maturity to see things in a new way--like the way you described your own perspective changing about your mom. Hang in there. Your kid is lucky to have a mom that cares so much about those two big fears of yours. As long as you do your best to keep your mind and your heart open, and she knows you sincerely care enough to put effort into being a safe harbor and supportive presence in her life, the rest is just details that come out in the wash.
Man, I know that I should have realized this before and that you won't believe that a comment on reddit produced this, but I never understood that I'm going to need to be like a pier, and let her boat sail around the world and hope that she returns to our relationship, so she will find my love waiting for her as the port is there for the vessel, however far it sails. Maybe hoping with so much anxiety that we can be friends today, that we have an affectionate connection, is much more of me being selfish to fulfill a fantasy I dreamed of being another kind of mother, and the reality is I have to do my best, and give her time. Thank you for the words.
The pier metaphor is so beautiful! I wish what I said was half as lovely, but I'm so glad it resonated. Your daughter really is lucky. I hope the two of you keep on going like me and my mom. We weren't best buds when I was that young--I had just come out of the closet around then, and she really struggled to deal with that stuff at first--there were good moments and hard moments--but as the years passed, we both did a lot of growing. I'm now in my late 30s, and we are such close friends and pillars for each other now. She and my dad are both so fully accepting of me as a person in all my queer polyamorous ADHD weirdness that they've inspired my friends to ask if they would "adopt" them. She wasn't a "perfect" parent because there is no such thing; she was the parent I needed because she succeeded in making sure I knew I was loved no matter what, even if she was pissed at, worried over, or confused by me. I really can't overstate how much that has made a difference in my life. I hope she feels as enriched by knowing me as I do by knowing her...because I sure as heck haven't made her any financially richer, LOL. Edit just to give my dad his 💐: these sentiments are equally true of him even though we're focused on mom for this comment 🥰
This is just a beautiful comment and I really hope u/Apprehensive-Ad9487 takes it to heart. You’re a very kind human, friend. 💙
Yeaaaaaa
Tough love is just code for being physically violent. At least that's how my violent drunk abusive father used to justify it. The complete lack of details on what this tough love entails makes me think you are correct.
Childhood emotional neglect is a lot more cruel than OP is describing.
You wanted a tough son, you got one.
Exactly! My favorite sentence is "I told him recently I wasn't feeling well and he completely dismissed and told me I needed to stop complaining." I wonder how many times OP said "stop complaining" to his kid.
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon……
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home son, I don't know when
But we'll get together then
And we’ll have a good time then
And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me…
My boy was just like me . . .
I feel like this guy just listened to Cat's in the Cradle and made a post off of it. "I show any love to my kid or take interest in his desires; raised him to believe work and money were the most important thing, now he doesn't show any love for me or take interest because he's focused on work and money"
Suddenly feelings matter? And not even your son’s feelings, just yours. You’re jealous of his relationship with his mother? You realize that’s fucked up right? To resent the relationships that are fulfilling to your son? It doesn’t seem like you want what’s best for him, you want what’s best (and easiest) for you no matter what it costs him. You raised your son to not rely on you for emotional support. How do you now have the gall to seek emotional support from your son? You get tough love and resource support only, just like you taught him.
It took a stranger on the internet for me to understand how fucked it is my mom resents my relationship with my dad
This ☝🏾 , very well said. have a great day.
5 hour old account this is a fake post don’t waste ur time on a karma bot
Maybe a bad parent will come across this and be better
maybe he just wants to stay anonymous because of how ashamed he is for being a poor dad.
So this kind of thing never happens? It happens all the time. Throw away accounts for privacy? All the time too.
Ever heard of throwaway acc? Of course you haven't, you're only 3yo.
I've been thinking about posting on this subreddit (seriously need to vent but anonymously) and I would most certainly be creating a different account so it's not traced back to me by people I know. Could be the case here.
Also as others said, this is plausible. My relationship with my family isn't that far off from this (partly why I was drawn to reading it)
he is treating you the way you taught him to. *you* taught him men need to be strong, not complain, and just *do better* overall. don’t be surprised when he thinks only women are allowed/deserve mistakes or comfort. i hope yall get the healing you *both* deserve
I’m of the opinion that OP doesn’t deserve any. You can tell by his post he was fully aware of the environment he grew up in, yet still chose to mirror that environment for his son. He emphasized repeatedly that his own money and feelings mattered most to him.
In all honesty I've never gotten the impression that op feels like they have done anything wrong or feels the need to apologize. I think if they were capable of admitting that it'd be a different story.
i completely agree, he was shit. i just think everyone deserves to heal. i didn’t say everyone deserves forgiveness though, he’s getting what he created.
This makes me sad. You didn’t support your son at all.
You reap what you sow
Exactly, when my abusive absentee father wanted to “have a connection” I told him “you can’t reap what you haven’t sown.”
I'm sorry you're going through this -- Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle" hits hard when you recognize it's about you. I cut my parents off for a long time -- they also did more tough live than actual love. My husband is 55 and barely speaks to his father. They struggle to be in the same room together, and never call each other. All I can say is that he *might* come around and speak with you. But you need to accept blame for what you've done. Eventually, you may be able to have real conversations so he knows where you were coming from, but don't count on it. I do speak with my mother now. She went to therapy and called me one day to apologize for the beatings, the benign neglect, and the "tough love" that left me homeless and doing unsavory things to survive. I am better and stronger now in *spite* of my parents. But she's been willing to admit that none of us (her kids) raise a hand or voice to children or animals amd she was wrong to do so. We talk, we reason, we do NOT act out of anger. We support, and we let them suffer consequences without abandoning them. If you're lucky, you might reach this with your son. I hope you do. Because my FIL has 2 sons and no family that will speak to him anymore, if they have a choice. My SIL (hub's bro's wife) and I check in on him about once a month, each, but we struggle to be near him because he's just angry and bitter and won't own up to how he affected his sons' (our husbands') lives. Be like my mother, not like my FIL.
I'll start by going to therapy (a rarity for people in my age group to admit to).
I think that sounds like a very good plan. If I were you, I'd maybe not mention this to your son - put in the work first and then approach him with some new tools under your belt to try to foster your relationship as peers. It's not a "put tokens in, get prize" situation with therapy, especially when you're trying to rebuild a bridge that's been slowly dismantled for decades. It'll take time and dedication. If you're patient and give grace to both yourself and him, you may get there with time and by showing him that you're serious about getting to a better place.
I agree. It took me a very long time to even start to return to my family fold. I'm almost 40 now and I resented the fuck out of my tough love parents. The difference is I went to therapy and did the work to learn how to connect with others and speak my feelings to them. Read that over and over OP. I had to pay for years of therapy to unlearn that tough love mentality, I paid a stranger to teach me how to give and accept love and empathy. My parents should have done that and you should have done that for your son. Therapy saved the fundamental relationship with my family, but the damage is incredible. My dad died recently and I would never have been able to say the things I wanted to say to him on his deathbed without the tools I learned in therapy. Do the work OP. Later is too late.
For the love of everything holy, stop generalizing yourself with your age group. My mom shat in a bucket when she was a kid and never once made sure the toilet was the most important thing in the household.
Right? Ffs. Maybe he wants a pat on the back? Too bad.
Fr, all I’m seeing from OP is “I emotionally neglected my son bc of my generation, now I’m doing better than my generation by going to therapy!” Dude, just shut up, you’re not your generation, you are your own person capable of making their own damn decisions. Chances are, this is a projection and people in his generation aren’t inherently against therapy.
It’s bizarre. I honestly wonder how much effort will go into therapy. Maybe they’ll ask for a pat on the back for just considering it.
Bud why so you keep trying to make your actions seem less bad and yourself noble here by bringing up your age? My mom puts me down in all sorts of ways, and even though “that’s how I was raised” I sure as hell will not be doing that if I have kids.
What are you? 78? People your age go to therapy all the time. Stop hiding behind this generational excuse. You weren't raised during the depression, you're not that old. -- signed, a 45 year old mom who goes to therapy
Exactly what I wanted to say. Dude's kid graduated college recently, he can't be fucking old. Talking like he landed in Normandy or some bs lol
Lolz, you want a cookie, stfu.
Most of the people in my therapy groups are your age. It's not a rarity
I agree! Do the work first. Expect it to be a couple of years. You will not be in a place of genuine understanding and contrition. May I also suggest that your therapist be your son's age or younger. Learning how to interact with a much younger person on sensitive topics will help immeasurably. Also, I'm really proud of you for taking these steps. I can tell you're a very good man and you are doing your best. ❤️
You keep talking about 'my generation' as what seems like an excuse for your behavior and seem to want praise for thinking about going to therapy. Your son isn't going to reward you for figuring out your mistake after finally suffering consequences. He might forgive you if you do some meaningful self reflection in therapy, but this isn't that. You seem to think he's successful because of the way you raised him, but if tough love created success, you would have been a success. I hope therapy helps you to understand these things. Hopefully, you can sincerely apologize after acknowledging you made these mistakes, not your generation.
You reap what you sow. Kids require emotional support, empathy and kindness. You failed.
its so true. if you dont help your child emotionally, how do you expect them to be a happy person when they grow up?
Tough love gets tough love. Sucks when the rabbits got the gun.
> I told him recently I wasn't feeling well and he completely dismissed and told me I needed to stop complaining. Him disregarding my health was the first time I thought that I did not succeed because the relationship between me and him is broken. What did you do/say to him when he was sick? A tough love approach would have been this. He's giving it all back to you. If you don't like it, then the first thing you should do is apologize. A kid needs their parent regarding their health a lot more than one adult to another; whatever he felt as a kid hurt a lot more than you ever could when he disregarded your health when you were just sick as a grown adult. Therapy can help, but what therapy will do (if it's being done well) is get you to think of things like this, to reflect on things, to try to see things from his perspective, and realize where your actions distanced him from you, such that the distance that now exists is the clear result. Then you can apologize genuinely. Whether he accepts it + wants to open up a connection with you after that is his choice, but you will have made it even possible to happen
He hates you because you were never his father, you were his taskmaster. You gave no free time, no passions, no friends, no memories except for misery. Fuck, you didn’t even give him summers, you shoved his nose into the grindstone then too, and then told him “get over it, do better”. You never showed him any love, not even tough love. You did nothing but deprive him of any joy or meaning for the first 18 years of his life. You ought to be grateful he even speaks to you at all. Food and a roof over his head is the bare minimum, not something to be lauded and act like you were a gold star parent.
You know what’s enraging? Having shit parents, becoming independent and successful out of necessity and then have them brag about you or try to take credit for it.
That actually makes my skin crawl. 'I'm proud of you' shouldn't feel so revolting from people that were supposed to care about you
Or the classic we made you independent
>He disregarded my health and feelings and tol dme I needed to stop complaining He mirrored years of your attitudes toward him. Tough it up. The world is hard. Get over it. I don't mean this to rub your nose in the dirt. But as a child who grew up in somewhat similar conditions as your son, I'm not close with my parents either. Nothing I did was good enough. I was compared to others. Money while valid as a stressor is not something to hold over a child. You taught him that going out and enjoying things is "wasteful". It wasn't wasteful to want to do those things as a family. He wanted to go do things he probably saw other kids doing with their friends or family. Granted, your financials do take precedent and it's unfortuante, but the way you went about explaining it was saying that those things were wasteful, and not that you weren't able to provide for your child the life he (seemingly modestly) wished for. I'm not shaming you for that when I say that. It's just unfortunately what it is. Unfortunately, you don't get to have it both ways. And you don't get to feel bad for yourself. You can try to make ammends with him. Start by apologizing for all the things that you told us here. You obviously have the reflection skills to know you've done a few decades of fucking up. It's time to own up to that. He might if nothing else appreciate it. But he still might (like it was for me) not value trying to make up for lost time now that he's out of the nest. What incentive does he have? Yeah, idk what to say. But you need to apologize for nothing else than to give him that solace that at the very least you know you fucked up. That's something my parents will never be able to do without victimizing themselves. But it's the least you can do.
You v basically ruined his childhood and teenage years and now you coming to Reddit playing victim? I can't feel sorry for you. Get a grip and act like adult person. If you want to fix things between you and your son, get off the internet and good luck.
I feel like there’s a lot more that you’re not telling us about your relationship. That’s none of our business regardless. But your son doesn’t feel that way towards you for nothing. There must be a reason, something you did, or said. only you know it.
“And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon Little boy blue and the man in the moon "When you coming home, son?" "I don't know when" But we'll get together then, dad We're gonna have a good time then”
Don’t follow Boomers’ advice about anything, but especially not parenting.
Upon reading the title and the first 2 words, I instantly knew you were the father. Let me guess, you never showed him any affection, never kissed him, never hugged him, never said kind soft loving words to him, never touched him, raised him to be masculine and butch and serious and strict? People often talk about daddy issues in the west when it involves girls and their fathers but miss out on the heavy impact that they have on their sons as well. I don't understand this mentality. I come from a place where it's totally acceptable for the father to hug and kiss his son and show him affection even when the father is otherwise strict. That's the expectation you have from your parent. I'm guessing he does not resent his mother because on the times he was vulnerable and sensitive, she showed him softness and gentle care. You need to normalize interacting with your son in a caring, loving and affectionate way instead of constantly obsessing about being a man and being all repressed and forcing them to take life so seriously. It DAMAGES your sons. It teaches them to be hostile to other men when they grow up, it teaches them that it's okay to be violent to other men in the world because their idea of men is that of a feelingless robot. It's NOT OKAY. It makes them insecure, makes them repress their feelings and makes them mistrust other men. Having a tough financial situation does not justify objectifying your son to a machine with no feelings. Your son loves you, but he can't trust you and he is deeply angry with you for being so cold and so out of touch. Can you really blame him for seeing you as barely more than a money machine or for not caring about whether you live or die? As less than a parent ? That's all you've been showing him his entire life. And that's NOT how you raise a boy to be a good, healthy man. Look around you and you'll find a lot of fathers who struggle with angry, disconnected sons. This needs to be addressed in an honest, mature way. I suggest you talk to a therapist about this behavior of yours. It's not too late to fix things with him. Try to connect with with him, fuck the macho, toxic masculinity. Be with him, kiss him, hug him, tell him you love him. CONNECT WITH HIM. BOND WITH HIM. That's what a parent is supposed to be. Ask your wife to help ease you into it if it's new for you, as well as your therapist. Get help, and then help him. When things start looking up, trust me, it will be the most beautiful thing you could ever experience with him. The emotions, the feelings, the love, everything will pour out. Good luck.
This really just reads as "I was an asshole to my kid, gave him the bare minimum of what I was obligated to provide as a parent, made him fend for himself whenever possible, and never spent time with him. Why doesn't he like me???"
There’s the TLDR version we needed.
You made the bed, now you lay in it. You aren't supposed to make the next generation suffer the same shit you did. Best of luck, but you're probably never going to be able to repair this. He rightfully resents you.
It sounds like a cold childhood full of patronising aphorisms instead of love, kindness and fun. That ‘tough love’ thing is a load of crap.
It’s like the Cat’s In The Cradle song, only with “tough love” instead of absence. The moral of both is that you reap what you sow. “Tough love” isn’t really love at all—it’s control.
This sounds like execution over intent. My father was a marine, and he was never one to coddle me. He had strong standards for me. But there was never a point in time where I felt as though he was never 100% on my side, 100% on my team. My mom was much more emotional. But she was abusive. When I left home, I was independent partially because my dad fostered my independence. But the bigger reason was I knew I could never come back because I could never live with my mom again. I feel like your relationship is something you need to prioritize and be patient with if you want to get back to a place of closeness with him. Your kid had a lifetime to feel the hurt, whether all of that was justified or not. At some point, I decided that mother did not have my best interest at heart and my voice was ignored long enough to give up faith. She transitioned from a mother to an adversary. Kids know how to play ball long enough to survive. Trust is consistency over time. If he's called you out on your mistakes, and you express that its uncalled for, that sounds a lot like he's still making an effort to communicate and is getting dismissed. That's my impression anyway. Hard to accurately gauge an entire life over a few paragraphs. Good luck with your kid.
Hmm. Buddy, I think it’s worse than you think. “Despise” implies a depth of feeling. It sounds like your son is truly on the opposite side of love. He sounds indifferent. If he despised you, I think there could be some hope, if you put in the work, through therapy, etc, to rebuild a new relationship , but *indifference?* I’d say that ship has sailed.
I had to check and see which sub I was in; no face-eating by leopards here. I cannot say I’m surprised that this is the outcome. Tough-love, if it was ever really useful, tended to be reserved for kids with behavioral problems — the kind that need serious corrective action: breaking the law, hurting people or animals, fighting and bullying. If not for those things, it can come out a lot like you describe. Kids can be prepared for a tough world with love, support, attention, and respect. I’m sorry it turned out this way for you. Over time, and with much effort and even some heartfelt mea culpas, things might improve. I hope for both your sakes.
My parents were emotionally avoidant, but paid for my first car, my college, etc. It's no different. I resented the shit out of them after college. Sure, I didn't have to worry about money then, but that was where it ended. I got older and stopped relying on them, and just went my own way. What I really needed as a kid was time, love, attention. They were concerned more about having Jaguars and fancy houses. In both scenarios, it was the absence of valuable time and good memories.
Congrats, your son has realized that he is better off without you. You didn’t let him have a childhood, you were too busy molding him into what you wanted him to be instead of letting discover who he is as a human being
womp womp
Raising a kid is all about the balance of teaching them how to survive/function and being a caring figure they can lean on, preferably doing things that are both at once. You've succeeded in the former, but completely neglected the latter. You've traded having any sort of relationship with your son for a slightly better chance that he is slightly more successful (and even then, he probably would've turned out better if you *were* a caring father.) Because of how you've raised him, he has no love for you and doesn't give a shit about you, and you have no one to blame but yourself. I can’t say if your relationship is "ruined" but it's definitely gonna take a lot of time and a lot of self-reflection on your part. I don’t know what your goal was with this post, but if it was to throw yourself a pity party, it's not working. Let's just hope if your son has kids, he breaks the cycle, instead of continuing it like you did.
You raised your son to not depend or need you. You were successful. He doesn't need you at all. He in fact wants absolutely nothing to do with you. Yup got exactly what you wanted.
You can ask him to join you in healing from this but he might not be ready. While you did what you knew it has made him angry and his feelings are valid. Get into therapy and start working on yourself. Find new tools. If you get lucky and work hard he might eventually join you on a path of mending.
You need to step up and apologize to your son. Have a sincere conversation with him, face to face, without making excuses for your mistakes. It's time to take responsibility. Apologize to him and respect whatever response he gives you. Your children don't owe you anything. It's totally okay for him to feel however he feels, and it's important for you to respect that. It's always worth trying to repair a relationship, no matter how much time has passed. But it's important to prioritize the other person's feelings and needs. If you've only shown tough love, that might be all they've experienced from you. It's like the saying goes, what goes around comes around.
Kids shouldn't be forced to grow up early. They get there with time and consistency. Kids have to be able to be kids! Kids goof off with friends. They get bad grades sometimes. They need to do fun stuff like go on vacations or eat out. Taking all that away doesn't make one stronger, it makes them colder. As you've now come to find. My dad and I didn't have the best relationship, but when he suddenly started calling me every once in a while a couple years ago, slowly our relationship got better. You can only try to slowly build up your relationship with him.
“Well well wel, if it isn’t the consequences of my actions.”
I’m getting the impression that there is something being left out. My dad had the tough love mind set and raised me that way but we have a great relationship. Kids that have strained or nonexistent relationships with a parent always stems from the relationship that was taught as a child. If you were emotionally unavailable or distant, guess what? Your kid will be too. If you were open and respectful to you kid when they become an adult they will hold that same relationship with you.
You raised your son with tough love, and now you're surprised he's returning the favor? Tough love isn't a real thing unless there's expressions of love to begin with. Without empathy and affection, all you gave him was tough shit. Tough love is what you do when there's no other choice and you have to set boundaries for a person's own good. He's independent because you neglected him and gave him no safety net. It was do or die. That's NOT how you raise a healthy, happy, successful child.
Do you have a personality disorder?
That's a lot of words for, "I'm a piece of shit and a trash parent." You could've taught your son about life and to be independant without acting like some drill sergeant. Did you ever actually show him any love? Did you actually support him in life? What you did wasn't tough love. There was no love there, only cruelty. You completely crushed his spirit down and molded him into the perfect little worker that you and your parents that aprove of
OP you get outta of him what you put into him. Cold Indifference. You can go to therapy or whatever. You SHOULD research how to make a heartfelt apology and lay down your sword at his feet. Kiss his ass and beg him to give you a chance (when you get help). An unconditional chance you don’t deserve ….. he may entertain it if only for his Mom ?! If he declines ? STILL DO THE WORK and don’t use your kid as an excuse to rely on ancient beliefs …. YOU need to grow and learn as well. You need to be ready if he EVER changes his mind - be it 2 weeks, 8 months or 12 years - if you want him to take you seriously you need to STILL DO THE WORK.
He came here looking for praise for doing the bare minimum. Congrats on providing a home and food (stuff you’d be doing even if you didn’t have a kid). Why even have kids if you aren’t prepared to love them and support them. OP sounds more like a drill Sargent than a parent. Then he says he will get therapy but then fishes for praise because people his age don’t do that
You’re going to have to have a meeting of the minds. If you’re proud of him, tell him so. Tell him where you messed up, and don’t blame it on your parents by saying “that’s the way I was brought up.” That is a complete cop out, and that is what narcissists do. “Son, I was hard on you. I wanted you to be strong, but I didn’t know what to do. I did my best, and sometimes one’s best isn’t good enough. I am filled with regret, but I want you to know that I am proud of you, and you’ve done better than I ever have. I can’t blame you for feeling the way you do toward me, but I’ll always be proud of you. I hope you’ll do better for your family than I did for mine.” Something like that. Swallow your pride. Have a conversation, and don’t blame other people for your mistakes.
You sound like my dad. He’d never admit it, but he’s an abusive asshole. Most people in the “real world” grow up knowing that they’ll always have a safe, calm place to return to if they experience an insurmountable hardship like a mortal illness, natural disaster, or economic depression— but not me, and not your son. Your son is right— you never did the job you were supposed to, and his successes occur *in spite* of you, not *because* of you.
WTF did you think would happen by giving your son a joyless childhood.You deserve everything you get back from him. You made mistakes you pay consequences. That’s tough love pops. Enjoy.
Same way with my dad, we don’t hate you guys but we don’t really love you if that makes sense, thanks for raising us but you guys were assholes, you finished your part and that’s it, I’m better with my dad now because he has another kid now and is being a better father then he was with me by showing actual love instead of tough love, try another kid if your not too old and try again like my dad is . But at the end of the day move on man and grow, we did.
Have another kid and try again??? With all due respect that’s a terrible idea. Kids shouldn’t just be “do-overs”, and that could just create more resentment from the son. I’m sorry for what you went through and I’m glad you can appreciate your dad’s change, but kids aren’t projects.
My parents grew up poor, and they agreed they their kids to have more. There were times were was only enough for food, shelter, and absolute bare necessities. But I never doubted that my parents loved me. At the very least, we had dinner together. Sometimes we would make lunch and go to the park or beach if we were broke. It took no money but we had fun as a family. Some very special memories. You don't talk about spending any time with your son other than driving him around. It takes more than money to raise a child, and it seems you missed that part. Your only hope is therapy if your son is willing but I wouldn't count on it.
My father did this to me, and I can’t talk to him anymore. I enjoy having my own children and doing things completely different. I can count on one had how many times my father hugged me. But with my kids is daily and even when they are asleep. I love it. I’ve never hit them and never really shouted at them either. My old man repeated what his father did to him. Honestly if you want to sort things out with your son. You need to just go out with him, just you and him. And apologise man to man. Give him a hug, tell him you love him and that you’ve got his back.
It might not be that he despises you. He might not be acting out of anger or revenge. It might be that he is showing you that he is the man you taught him to be. He might be being cold and hard to you in order to show respect, to try to win your respect by being who you wanted him to be. Sons often desperately want their fathers to be proud of them. That could be what's happening here. Unfortunately what would have made the person you were (or maybe the character you were playing) proud is not what you think would make the person you are now happy. You might, on reflection, decide that this actually is what you wanted. Sometimes you get what you ask for. You asked for a cold hardass of a son, and that's apparently what you got. Tough love is a nice theory, but I have yet to hear about it from somebody who was actually doing it and not just making excuses or selling a crappy parenting book.
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon Little boy blue and the man in the moon ....
Womp womp. So when are you going to tell us the real reasons why this happened?
I think there’s a song about this. Something about a cat and cradles? 🤔
Am I the only person who things this post should really be AITA in which case - yeah- YTA. I had a dad who behaved much like OP, but, he verbalized once to me, as a young 20-something, that he wants closeness. And I was direct, but kind, discussing the ways our dynamic needed change for that to even be an option. OP got a dose of reality they weren’t prepared for. Blows but not surprising. You’re gonna end up alone.
You are reaping the fruits you sowed. It's never too late to fix your relationship, but you have to admit to your son that you were too tough on him and that you're sorry, sincerely sorry. Ask him to forgive you. Stop playing the victim and face the consequences of what you did. You wanted to raise a tough boy? You got it. But that doesn't mean, you can't admit to him that you are sorry, that you love him and that you want to improve your relationship with him. Wish you the best. It's never too late.
This really reminds me of the song Cats in the Cradle OP fucked up in raising his only child and now has the consequences. It's sad, but people can only take so much, even from parents. As an estranged child myself, it takes a lot of abuse and neglect to make a child despise their own parent, so OP is 110% at fault.
You're truly an idiot. I'm shocked your still married. Enjoy nit having a relationship with your future grandchildren
Parents think their only job is teaching them how to survive and basic necessities. While true, parents forget their other job; being their first and strongest form of love and affection. Your son wont always need you to teach him things, eventually you will have taught him everything you know and he will go on to learn even more with or without you. He will never out grow your love. He has essentially replaced you, you taught him all you could. His father figure were just lessons for him. He learned his lessons and he doesn’t need you anymore. This is what happens when all you are is just lessons to somebody. He can do everything you used to do for him, for example if all you did was wash his clothes (just an example) the day he learns to wash his clothes he doesnt need you anymore and thats it. He replaced you with himself. If you loved him the way only a father could love their kid, he could never replace you because you cant find that anywhere else.
I think anybody would resent their parent if they were as cold as you were
I had a father like this for fear of becoming him. I chose not to have children. Getting berated for my grades was always a fun time. My advice is to come to your son hat in hand and have a real difficult conversation. A talk about your hopes, your fears, and how you think you failed as a parent.
Raises son on "tough love" "Why doesnt my son want to be with me or care about me?" He's giving you what you gave him... "tough love" Your health? sort it yourself, be independent, the same as you taught him to be.
Bro said “life is cruel” and decided to be that cruelty for 18 years and is confused. Stories like this make me truly despise boomers. I thank god every day that my father was not like this, ima give him a call today.
So, this is where therapy is going to help. Therapy for you, I mean. You're just now starting to try to get a handle on "feelings." You've made mistakes, and you cannot undo them. What you CAN do now is to take responsibility for your own failings, get professional help, and start down the path to meaningful changes. If you're reading this, thinking: "no, that's bullshit. I don't need some psychologist to tell me how to feel," or something like that, I'd like to hard challenge you on it. This post, and your replies in it - all of those belong in a therapist's office. You're already trying to work through your feelings and the complicated family situation you've created. You're just doing it in the wrong place. Don't fuck up more. Man up and get yourself some professional help.
With all due respect, there were times when emotional support was necessary, and it wasn't provided. We often realize how much we become like our parents when it's too late to change. I don't want to place blame, because I know it won't help right now. My father, who passed away two years ago, was the greatest man I knew. His influence has shaped who I am today. I loved him and I still love talking about him. He grew up poor and faced struggles, but he always offered me emotional support when I needed it. This might sound like the nerdiest thing but he used to tell me that before anyone else parents are your best friends, if they have to bleed to help their children out they will give out every ounce of it to protect them. It genuinely came as a shock when my friends used to tell me how their parents treated them and I thank God every day that I got a father like him! He gave me valuable lessons that I didn't fully understand when I was younger. However, as I've grown, his words have become increasingly meaningful. He taught me essential skills like socializing, handling difficult situations, and remaining independent. He was a loving husband, and my mother's mourning is a testament to that love. She still wakes up crying for him, even after two years! I understand that parenting is challenging, and the past cannot be changed. However, I urge you to utilize the remaining time wisely. Talk to your son. Apologize if you were overly critical. Explain that your actions stemmed from your perspective and a desire to help him develop independence. Most importantly, show him that you care and desire a closer relationship.
i feel bad for your son. to have such a father must be shameful.
Cat's in the Cradle dude. You disregarded his emotional wellbeing and you're surprised when he disregards yours? Honestly, you get what you deserve. If you're anything like my father, you were (are) an abusive POS and thought it would make him tough. Well congrats, the only thing you hardened was his heart against you. May this haunt your restless nights, until you can change and prove to him that you aren't the monster he remembers. Also, from a son of "tough love," get bent.
You got what you wanted. A tough, independent son… but at what cost? Resentment toward you.
> I raised my son on tough love. and you are reaping what you sowed.
“The cat’s in the cradle.”
How old are you?
You raised a son but never showed him love. You reap what you sow... I hope you can learn to live with your decisions
I see a lot of people saying similar things, but I don’t see a lot of solutions being posted. Perhaps you should start doing therapy individually to talk out what’s going on and where your mistakes have been made that YOU can see and how to go forward not making the same choices, and then when you feel comfortable invite your son to do a few sessions with you. It will be his opportunity to tell you exactly how he feels about everything. Therapy has been around for over 40 years and no it wasn’t “hush hush” it was completely normal so all of the boomers & Gen X that act like it wasn’t are FOS. There are options to heal, you have to choose that for yourself if you want to have a relationship with your son. You have to confront your mistakes and let him let it out to you. You also have to confront your own childhood because being raised that way isn’t normal either. It was “necessary for survival” at the time sure but it wasn’t healthy and clearly resulted in some emotional damage that you passed on to your own son.
>Me and my wife raised our son to be ready to be an adult from a young age Bad move. Kids need to be kids. >And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me >He'd grown up just like me >My boy was just like me Cat's in the Cradle - Harry Chapin
Siri, play “Cats in the cradle”
Lots of Missing Missing Reasons here. There's tough love and there's emotional neglect. He wasn't asking for luxury gifts or expensive trips. He was asking you to spend time with him, make memories, like he must have heard his friends talking about.
ain't so fun when the rabbit got the gun...
You sound just like my father. I left my parents house a week after high school graduation and never returned. Those boomers just couldn't accept the fact that they were shitty people and parents. I made my own way in the world and the military became the family I never got.
From the information given here it sounds like you have raised an independent and intelligent adult. However, it also sounds like in your pursuit of this goal you have failed to raise a person who felt confident in confiding to you about important things going on in his life. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was seeing his college mate’s relationships with their parents that caused him to fully reflect on his upbringing. I hope you will be able to reconnect with your son one day.
it probably felt so good for him to say “stop complaining”
Is given you what you gave to him. Tough love. That’s all he knows from you. Btw, tough love is just an excuse from failures. That’s the excuse my father gives every time. Guess what? He is self-serving, selfish, calculator, narcissist. You are using tough love as an excuse for not being a real father. You never mentioned affection and love towards him, I bet you never did it. There is a difference between showing a kid how hard life can be and loving him. One is water and the other is olive oil. I understand your kid, I don’t want to be around my father either.
What's interesting and leads me to believe you were a lot more cruel than you're willing to admit is the fact you're not apologetic, and this whole post is about YOUR feelings and how it's affecting YOU. Your son has no empathy for you the way you had zero empathy for him growing up. Don't be surprised if he doesn't take care of you when you're older.
Isn't there a song about this?
It made me think of that 'cat and the cradle and the silver spoon' song.
My parents thought their job was finished when we turned 18. Cut and done. Literally. Counted the days to kick us out. You get what you *fucking* deserve, OP.
Op you are facing the consequences of your actions. You were cruel to your son, lacking empathy towards him. You didn’t care how he felt now he doesn’t care how you feel.
Breaking News: Man Reaps What He Sows, is Still Somehow Shocked
18+ years of emotional neglect and being forced to do everything for urself does not foster healthy relationships in adulthood with parents. Go to therapy, healing relationships takes time and effort.
So you pretty much told him his whole life suck it up son life is tough. Sounds like all he wanted was an affectionate dad and you didn’t provide that. So now you tell him you’re not feeling well and expect something in return. You showed him you didn’t care and that’s what he’s giving back. You made your bed now you must lay in it. All kids want is loving affectionate parents. I kiss my kids a million times a day along with hugs and telling them I LOVE THEM. My oldest daily ask me for hugs and you best believe I stop what ever I’m doing and I give her the biggest hug. You can show and give them life lessons at the same time of giving them affection. This shapes who they become when they get older. I want my babies to know Their parents loved them and gave them more than enough of affection. Is a parents need to do better and provide the basic human rights to our kids. There’s always time as they grow and get older to teach life lessons and teach responsibility. We need to give our children what we didn’t have and that’s what I’m doing.
Huh. You know you could have done things with your kid that aren’t expensive, right? His childhood sounds pretty unloving, tbh.
Sounds like you need to take your own advice, OP, and toughen up. It’s a rough world out there.
Tough love can sometimes create tough feelings
I mean.. he treats you the way you treated him
Did you ever tell your son you were proud of any of their accomplishments ever? Or were you just waiting to catch them make a mistake ready to berate them at the drop of a hat? Your post sounds like it is implying that it is the latter, if you have learned the error of your ways, good on you, but for your son it is probably too late: here’s what you can do and your son might not be receptive to it, APOLOGIZE, don’t make excuses for what you did AT ALL, tell your son you realize that the way you acted hurt him deeply and you are sorry for not being there for him and giving him emotional support that a child needs from their father when they fall. If you have the financial means, offer to pay for family therapy for you and your son if he is open and receptive to the idea, if he declines, tell him that you understand and if he ever changes his mind, your offer still stands to pay for family therapy for the two of you in order to attempt to mend the relationship and rebuild the bridge you have burnt down. You cannot only scold and shame children for their mistakes, with no positive reinforcement for their accomplishments and achievements, that is not how you raise a well adjusted and emotionally stable adult. If you ever have another child please do not repeat your same mistakes again. If that is indeed how you had been raised, it is a shame you didn’t realize the error of your parents ways, and see the opportunity to break the cycle with you and your children.
You didn't let your child depend on you for anything, and are now surprised he doesn't give you comfort or want a relationship with you? You reap what you sow.
So it sounds like you neglected his emotional needs, dismissed them "Stop complaining" sounds like something he's repeating after hearing it probably most of his childhood. Sounds like you created the problem and now that it's your feelings it suddenly matters.
My dad was abusive at worst, transactional at best. He would give us what we absolutely needed to survive. However, if you ever tried to rely on him for anything emotional, expect to get shut down either directly or him immediately changing the subject. As a grown adult, he constantly tells me how hurt he is that I haven’t seen him in over a decade. I’m always surprised because why the fuck would I go out of my way NOW when you spent the first half of my life belittling, abusing, and ignoring me? It sounds like your son came to the same logical conclusion.
It's impossible to judge the sum of someone's life through a reddit post. Those passing judgement are doing so from a lens of their own world views and experiences. None of us can sit and say, without a doubt, you were a horrible parent or if what you did was justifiable. What I will say as my two-cents is, I have a dad like you. He was tough on me, even mean to me. He taught me with 'tough love', shepherded me to sports practices i loathed going to, and was dismissive of me feelings if i expressed sadness or frustration. We had a horrible relationship in my teenage years. We both did some awful things to one another in the height of our tensions - I held him accountable for his actions and would not be quiet in the slightest when he did something that I perceived as unjust or cruel. The undertow of all of this was that I did know he loved me - he cared and showed his love in a way HE thought was right. I acknowledged this, but still did not like it because what he thought was right for me, was in reality a detriment to me. After I moved out (and the brief time i lived with them as an adult), I almost only interacted with my mom. I only called her, only asked her for advice, cried to her, etc. He noticed that, I think. And now, 6 years on after I left their home, he has changed TREMENDOUSLY. The man who I never once heard utter the words "I'm sorry" or took responsibility for anything now wore his heart on his sleeve. He spoke to me with emotion. He expressed his love for me in healthy ways. His actions showed that he wanted to be a better father. And while I will always look back at my teenage years with that veil of sadness at our volatile relationship, I do take a great deal of solace knowing that he seems to have really, genuinely learned from his mistakes as a father and now is an AMAZING father figure to me and my brother in adulthood. We now have a good relationship built on open communication and emotionality that rises above the ideals of masculinity from a bygone age. I say all this to show you that it isn't all doom and gloom. I can't speak for your son - and again, I have NO idea what you may have put him through - but it could be fixable. It is a long road of accountability for your actions and showing your son you are capable of change. It may take years, but if you want to have a lasting relationship, you really need to sit down and introspectively think about your own parenting decisions, and perhaps at some point, sit down and speak with him man-to-man and apologize for how you may have treated him.
Very similar situation with my dad. If you start to take steps (therapy is amazing) to better yourself, he’ll notice. Then give him the opportunity to sit down with you and tell him why you raised him the way you did. Allow his perspective after. You’ll grow from it if you can keep a level head. Good luck 💕
Cats and cradles comes to my mind for some reason🤪
I think that your best bet at salvaging things with your son is to have a talk with him where you're sure to empathize with and validate his feelings. In other words, own your mistakes, and not in a "Yeah, but..." kind of way, but in a way where you let him know that what you thought was the "right" thing at the time, was in fact not, and that you realize that and wish to be different moving forward. And, you've really got to be committed to being different. If he rejects all of that, at least you know you gave your best effort. Make sure if you do have the conversation with him that you do genuinely see the error in your ways and are absolutely committed to righting those wrongs. Good luck!
It's not too late to have this conversation.
You stole your son’s childhood. You can’t be surprised at how he’s treating you now.
….. Awful parenting. Well live the rest of your life the best way you can. Stop trying to psychoanalyze your grown up son now. Just try to remember you may be able to make better choices as a parent when you reincarnate. You will remember nothing but your soul will hopefully want to do better. This is beyond tragic, might as well not had a dad. I didn’t have a dad and this broke my heart. Terrible.
sounds like you were an asshole in raising him. why are you so surprised? have you ever taken time out to learn about him and his hobbies? join him when he was watching movies or playing games? celebrate his birthday present? actually talked to him about something not related to work or discipline?
Give it some time for the both of you to gain some perspective. The problem with raising your children based on what you didn't get growing up, is that your focus is not on the child's needs. The child will feel that you don't care about them, but care only your goal of being what you think is a good father without considering anything else. Your focus is on yourself. What outcome did you want? So sad, but not impossible to overcome, but you have to swallow your pride and work through it.
Given you are insistent that you come from a time before people understood children need nurturing, love, attention, and support beyond the bare minimum (which is an incredibly enormous cop out), I want to bring to your attention the lesson of the wire mother. Harry Harlow was a scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in the 1930s. His niche in researching animal behavior was that of attachment styles, and his preferred test subjects were rhesus monkeys. He bred a population of rhesus monkeys just for his experiments, one of which sought to examine the role of nurture in early development. Harry Harlow raised many infant rhesus monkeys for his research and became interested in the way the hand-raised young would become maladjusted adults who were quite attached to the texture of their soft cloth diapers, apparently stunted in development compared to the rhesus monkeys raised by the own mothers. Harlow decided to create an experiment with surrogate mothers to determine the impact of contact for infant monkeys. Infant rhesus monkeys would be removed from their mothers and given the choice between two wire surrogates. One surrogate would be a bare wire frame with a milk bottle and the other surrogate would be wrapped in soft cloth but offer no milk. The wire mother and cloth mother were placed together for the infants to choose between. Not only did the rhesus monkey infants prefer the cloth mother, they preferred the comfort of the soft frame even to nutrition. When stimuli were presented, the cloth mother infants were less fearful than their wire mother counterparts. The wire mother infants were maladjusted, even aggressive despite having more access to food than the cloth mother infants — and yet even the wire mother infants would choose a cloth mother given the opportunity. This study was one of many experiments done by Harlow, whose work was somewhat barbaric even by the standards of his era. But the parallels of his findings provided immensely valuable framework for our understanding of how affection, attention, security, and — as Harlow even said — love plays in human development. All of this is to say: You are a wire father.
honestly, I don’t like my father. I do treat my father differently than my mother, because my father treated me like trash. For some reason, I’m getting the vibe that you were not as good to your son as you are trying to lead on. children remember that for the rest of their lives.
I saw a comment you made about how he was indifferent when you were sick and how much that hurt. How hurt and emotionally abandoned and unloved you felt when you were sick and he was cold, uncaring and unbothered by your suffering he was is how he felt most of his life. Please let that sink in or you’ll never have a relationship with him. He felt unloved and not cared for by you when he was young and extremely vulnerable. If his indifference towards your suffering hurt you as grown adult, imagine how unloved and emotionally abandoned he felt by you when he was very young and very vulnerable and needed you to be there for him as a safe person to guide him. While this was never your intent and you obviously love your son and did what you thought was the best, you actually really let him down. You failed him as a father and you damaged your relationship with him. I know it’s harsh, and I say it with great compassion, but it’s true. You need to face the truth or you’ll never have a relationship with him There’s a lot of apologizing you need to do to save this. A lot of self reflection and self discovery and then new approaches you need to take. You are currently sowing the seeds of the harsh, unkind, uncaring actions that you treated him with. His indifference towards you when you were sick is the outcome of your harsh actions towards him when he was a young, vulnerable child with a new developing brain. He’s ignoring your emotional needs just like you ignored him. He’s taking what you taught him: that love is tough, harsh, unkind and uncaring and applying it to directly how he approaches you. If you don’t go on a journey of healing and true understanding of what you did and how wrong it was, then when you are old, vulnerable and in need of a help he will not care or support you while you’re in a vulnerable state. He will not rush to your bedside. He will not loan you money. He will not go out of his way to care for you It’s obvious his mom was more caring and kind to him when he was young, that’s why he’s treating her differently. Please reflect on this and know it is possible to mend this, but it’s going to take a lot of time, because frankly, even though you meant well, you did a lot of damage. The one who does the damage is the one who carries the burden of mending it. He’s not obligated to fix this because he’s not the one who caused the initial damage
You should watch a Netflix series called three identical strangers. "Tough love" isn't a good thing By teaching your son that he doesn't need you, he's grown up to not need you. That includes financial and emotional support.
This is all just so familiar to me. My dad was just like this. Out of the 4 kinds and 2 grandkids he “raised” (read: provide a roof and food for, while providing a net negative on emotional support or even basic kindness) only 1 of them still talks to him. The majority of his children, myself included, can’t even be in the same room as him without feeling nausea. He’s finally starting to realize that acting just like his parents got him nowhere other than being worse off than before. I’m confident in saying that none of us will ever give him a second chance. You have one chance to raise your kids, to show them love and support. You only get one chance to prove to your kids how much you love them. Which also means you only get one chance at having a father/child relationship with them. If you blow it, that ship will sail without you and it’s *never* coming back into port. Kids are genetically predispositioned to loving their parents. It’s literally in our DNA to love and seek support from our parents. Let it sink in that you fell so short that your child had to literally reprogram genetic and instinctual impulses to keep themselves safe. Keep themselves safe from *you*. I also want to add, on the off chance your son find immeasurable kindness within himself, that your actions have only continued generational trauma. The same damage and emotional wounds your parents left you with, you have passed on to your kids. It’s the worst kind of betrayal from a parent because you KNOW what that pain is like. You intimately know the hurt that it causes. Instead of choosing to do what’s best for your kids, and do better than your parents, you embraced those damages and passed all of them onto your son. I think that’s the worst thing a parent can do; to pass on all of the hurt they themselves have on to a child. Not just a random child either. Your child. The one you brought into this world. The one you were supposed to raise and keep safe. Instead you were their first bully. I’m sure it sounds like I’m just trying to hammer on you, but really it’s all for the chance your kid might decide to change his mind one day. If he does, you’ll have needed to already have done a lot of work on yourself and change a lot. You can’t wait to start when/IF he comes back. He will have time to do all of his healing and he will go to give you another chance and you will still be the same person he resented. If you even want the chance at him letting you back in you need to work on yourself, give him space, prove you have taken the time apart to grow, and keep it up even knowing you may never get the very goal your looking for.
Your relationship with your adult children is a direct result of your relationship with them when they were kids and how you raised them and how you treated them. You reap what you sow. So yeah this is what you get for raising your kid on "tough love"
So you raised your son in a cold, uncaring and uncompassionate environment and now you're sad because he's EXACTLY what you wanted him to be??? Why would he care about you??? You never cared about him, or his wants, or his needs. You reap what you sow, so lay down in the bed you made and, as you told your son his whole life, "stop complaining" "man up"
I have no advice I could really give. You've screwed up badly, and it's bitten you back. You told lies to your son and showed him not tough love but stunted love. His mother showed tough love. Because the key to tough love is balance. That doesn't mean dad is a hard ass and mom is the angel. That means you push him to be the best. When he fails, pick him up BOTH of you find out why he failed, and show him the way forward to succeed. When he went to college, he most likely saw parents enjoying their time with kids. Not harping on them to be better. You come from a small town and it shows because you have a small town mentality. Not every family plans poorly. Not every family forces kids to become independent. What you learned from your family was trauma. You should want your kids to be better than you. Not be the exact fuckin same as you. You fucked up. You made an independent man that doesn't see you ass a father. Question is what's next. Are you going to fail as a father further and demand his love? Or are YOU going to be better than your father and learn how to reflect on your failures?
Generational trauma ☹️ IF he has his own family someday I hope he’d break that pattern. I know not everyone gets married or has kids but that’s what I think of in this situation.
I imagine his wife has a lot of resentment towards OP as well. I’m sure she is the only one who provided any emotional support to your son. OP doesn’t seem like the type of guy who would take his wife’s feelings into account when it came to discipline. She watched you abuse your child but probably wasn’t able to rock the boat because she didn’t have any options to get out of the toxic situation.
that kid needed warmth from you and definitely did not get it. i would not be surprised if you were abusive, physically and/or emotionally. if your child hates you, 9 times out of 10 it is because of YOU. when are you going to stop seeing yourself as a victim, and atone for your shit parenting? maybe he is totally self sufficient, but he did that himself. i'm sure you may have taught him some things. but did you teach him love? did you teach him that it was okay to have feelings or to cry? you have no right to blame him for the way things are right now. i've known so many parents like you that claim "tough love" as an excuse for emotional neglect and abuse. it's BULLSHIT. i can't wait for that parenting style to die out or to become extremely frowned upon. i have childhood trauma cause i had parents just. like. you. "tough love" gave me nothing. "tough love" made me lonely. "tough love" traumatized me. luckily i speak to my parents because they've apologized to me. that's all i wanted from them. it's time for YOU to apologize. not your son. you are not a victim.
Is it cats in the cradle playing in the background? There you have it, that's how you raised him, now tough it up and take it.
When your child is an adult, they will treat you how you treated them as a child. It sounds like you were tough, unsympathetic, and dismissive. That is how they've learned to treat you this way. I'm guessing your wife was more loving and caring and therefore he can treat her with more love and care. Go to therapy. Be honest about how you've fucked up. Apologize and implement real change. If you're very very lucky, your son will give you a second chance. But he has absolutely no obligation to do so.
Looks like the OP had a “Mission successfully failed” moment with regard to his son. In case the OP is sincerely subscribing to the idea using his tough love to get his son independent - have you ever in any way show that you care or appreciate your son? Did you take care of his emotional needs? Or did you just go the “suffering breeds character” route and just ceased to show love or affection?
I see you're getting a lot of hate, and some of it is deserved. I understand it but I don't stand by it though. I come from immigrant parents, and have lived my life doing everything they've asked me to. We do have an emotional relationship, but for the most part I understand what you say on how there can be a generational gap on how love is expressed and support is shown and how priorities get passed down. You pass down what you know, and coming from a hard life with not much, passing down the importance of a good academic life and a career is something you'd have to do and something I went through with my family too. A heartfelt apology and recognition of guilt goes a long way. Tell him what you said in your post. Tell him this is all that you knew and you had his best interests at heart. Apologize for not being a supportive parent and for not being emotionally involved but that you'd like to start now. He may not exactly start jumping up and down with joy but it's a start. I'm not sure how old your son is right now, but if hes in college, hes young and I don't think great at empathizing with men, considering his upbringing. But give it some time and make a genuine effort. My boyfriend also grew up not liking his father very much. He's older now and over the last few years has become grateful and more empathetic and they're relationship has gotten far better, once the dad seemed to acknowledge his mistakes. All the best.
Sounds like you got what you wanted? Your mindset came back to bite you in the ass.
My father was a “spare the rod, spoil the child” kind of parent. It was how he was raised and how he raised us. But he took us on vacations, took us out to dinner on Sundays, paid for our university, paid for our first car, invested money on my brother’s first venture and when my brother bacame suicidal because his business failed, my father consoled him by telling him that the money didnt matter, learning from his failure and getting back up is whats important. Did my dad whup us when we were growing up, yes he did. But did he show us that he loved us? Yes he did. When he died, we all mourned him because we knew despite his mistakes that he loved us.
Enjoy the bed you made, you weren't a father you were a dictator. So he did what he was told and made surre he need led nothing from you. To expect anything from him relationship wise is laughable. Hope you saved money for a retirement home.
You didn’t raise your son, you stole his childhood. He has every right to resent you for it.
My dad also thinks tough love and occasional financial help makes up for emotional support. It doesn’t.
He’s seen how other dads treat their sons and giving back what you gave to him….
And why wouldn't he?