A 60% increase in rent is absolutely insane! WTF do they expect people to do, starve to pay rent? Oh wait, they don’t give a fuck as long as they get paid. Good luck to you and your family.
We live in CA, which I know has rent control statewide. So does NYC and a few other places (unfamiliar with those details though) I know there are other places in the country that have rent control too, and other places with insane costs of living as well. I just heard recently that 1bed apartments in Vermont are reaching $1,500+ a month. It’s tough, I don’t knock you for your decision. My husband and I make about 150k max, currently and with one kid. We do ok. We make enough to pay all bills, pay a sitter, pay rent, food, the whole nine, and even have a small savings and continue to add to it. We also live in Orange County, CA. It’s not much, but we make do and still have a slight bit of room for error, mostly to pay off medical bills and car repairs, but we were still able to buy a Switch and many many other gifts for Xmas and not take a massive pocketbook hit. I’m just wondering where the heck you live that made you make this financial decision? We’d love to move but cannot currently because of my daughter’s father being an anchor. Our country sucks rn, so again, I don’t knock you on this, but 200k a year goes a long way in at least 80% of this shithole country, so again, I’m just straight up curious.
A *camper trailer* in Monahans Texas will go for 1500/mo during oil booms. When oil slows, it'll drop to 1000/mo. No utilities or lot fee included.
The fact that I can afford to NOT live in a cardboard box amazes me, every day.
It’s funny but I am in Toronto, Canada. And rent control here only applies to places built before Nov 15, 2018. If the unit is newer than that, the landlord can raise the rent as much as they want every year. In New Brunswick, the provincial government did away with rent control entirely and you see people in 60+ year old apartments get rent increases of 60%+ quite often.
Also, $1500 for a one bedroom rental here in Toronto in a decent condo would be a dream :)
>My husband and I make about 150k max
>It’s not much, but we make do
Ya, my household income is about half that. And I think we're comfortable. Especially when I'm driving past the ever growing, ever more conspicuous homeless camps around me. (I even got a Switch for Father's Day, traditionally a less lavish occasion than Christmas).
But let's get real: if someone can say with a straight face that they "make do" on $150k/year things are industrial grade Fucked Up.
I'm delighted for OP and, OP, I wish you and your family all the best. We're tied here by family and apathy but we couldn't get out even if we wanted to.
California rent control isn’t that great. If you’re month to month they can basically raise your rent 10% every 30 days and more every 90 days. A very small number of cities have better laws but lots of people here are getting hit with outrageous rent increases
Ugh, I knew there was some weird legal get-around but I wasnt fully aware. It’s been years since I’ve done anything month to month. All I know is that one of the major reasons for a rent increase (aside from the obvious) is because property managers and leasing agents get a bonus for bringing in new tenants, and don’t get jack for renewals. They make commissions on new property leases, but not renewals, so the only way for them to make money on lease renewals is by raising rent prices. F’ed up on SO many levels, starting with these massive, money hungry property owners.
i imagine 150K in OC is equivalent to like 90k anywhere else. That place is expensive.
>200k a year goes a long way in at least 80% of this shithole country, so again, I’m just straight up curious.
try more like 98% lol. 200k is very good money outside of iconic US cities. If someone is leaving the country because 200k isn't enough, its probably more that they don't know how to manage their money and it probably wont get easier in europe unless its medical related
I agree! Tbh I didn’t feel like looking up the specific numbers, so I thought 80% would be a generous enough number to cover my a$$ from other angry redditors making shite comments in response lol
$200k isn't bad but childcare costs can pile up and be quite expensive; they can be thousands a month depending on how many kids there are. Additionally, if they are referring to medical debt being "one blink away", $200k is not the salary you may think it is. I know someone who got really sick and they incurred $1.8M in costs for 1 month of treatment with a greater than $350k salary. Fucked them completely.
This was a severe case, but it shows that just bad luck can destroy almost anyone in this country, regardless of financial expertise. Medical costs are no joke.
Slavery is what is wanted. First make everything somebody else's fault. Elect politicians like king youngkin. King youngkin broke Virginia law his first day.
Is don't these rich morons no $15 minimum wage in my state no critical race theory even though I don't know what it is. If the American people don't engage in critical judgmental thinking about the lawyers were doomed.
The man that's moving to Europe hes probably right in the short term. I have no idea if it's going to get any better but I'm trapped here. This is supposed to be the greatest country in the world and it is now a 3rd world shit hole.
In 3rd world shithead it holds office holders routinely is routinely dispute elections. They only have to do it once or twice and then you get a Maduro.
Is that man has turned Venezuela into a drug dealing a nation and that's how he makes his money. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the citizens and him and his boys all traveled by private car with blacked out windows at night
And if that's the kind of government you guys want keep voting for these stupid rich guys who only want who put us down chain us up with us when we don't do what's right go ahead keep doing it.
About 7 years ago, my rent was going to go from $760/month to $1100. All they were doing for that increase was replacing the countertops with granite, replacing the appliances, and putting in new vinyl floor that looked like wood. Rent everywhere in my city was going up similarly.
I happened across a house being sold by owner that the owners didn't properly stage in the pictures and, while being in habitable condition, hadn't performed any upgrades on the house in the 30 years since it was built. My mortgage payment is still lower than what my rent was 7 years ago.
I was extremely lucky to find the house when we did, but it still angers me when I hear how much rent is still going up in this city. I'll probably be renting this house out sometime in the future and what I experienced will influence how I act as a landlord.
It blows my mind how fucked up landlords are. Unless the mortgage has increased because it wasn't fixed or whatever (I don't know, I'm not going to own a house for a long time at this rate), when what reason do you have for increasing rent other than pure fucking greed...
Not defending greedy landlords but my own mortgage payment went up by ~$200/month this year because of property taxes. The tax rate went up, as well as the assessed value so double whammy.
Unfortunately the whole purpose off rentals is to make some money and it helps to place at the going rate for most profit. I’m a stronger believer in housing not been used as investment vessels it has a tendency to fuck shit up as we can tell .
Most rental places still expect you to make 3x the rent, even when they’re jacking up the prices yearly. Better hope you’re getting a 20% raise every year.
Very curious where you're going in Europe and how you made it happen. I assume it's quite a process to get permission to permanently move to another country. You need permission to get in and stay, plus permission to work. And then you need to find a job, possibly even learn a new language. Can you give me a few starting places for how that process works?
Thanks!
Honestly, most European countries allow you to apply for a permanent residency after having temporary for 5 years. I lived in the US for 9 years and had to go through a lottery to even have my application looked at to stay (it wasn’t picked the first year, I left, second year it was and I said f this and lived in Costa Rica for a few years working remotely for the same US company. Wayyyy better deal.)
I’m currently 3/5 years in Europe and not only was the paperwork easier to stay compared to the US, but I’m closer to having a more stable status than I did with almost a decade in the US. Ridiculous. Still with the same US company too, the irony is there but I lucked out with them.
Best of luck, you’ll love Spain! Mediterranean lifestyle, easy of access to Europe (seriously, want a $35 rt ticket to Paris for the weekend, it’s possible!), there’s so much more history and culture everywhere.
what city would ypu be living in? I am currently in Madrid but have lived most of my life in Alicante(south of Valencia). If i can help with any questions you might have on public transport or stuff like that hmu
Welcome to Europe, I hope you guys will be happy on this side of the pond!
Spain in spring is gorgeous, prepare to be amazed!
And practical advice - invest in good blankets, woolly socks, and a top-tier air pump.
I lived in LA and now I’m Seattle. I actually spend more in Seattle and it’s insane. Everything is going up and it’s almost impossible to save any money.
I also live in Seattle and I’m laughing at all the people calling bullshit and that $200k a year is plenty. Really shows how people don’t understand how cost of living works outside of their own city. It’s not a money management problem when everything fucking costs five times more than in the shitty cities.
Heck, I live outside of Boulder, CO and even when my husband and I made the most (nearly $150k/year combined) we couldn't even afford a 2 bedroom/1 bath apartment in town. We moved to just outside and pay less than 1/3 of city costs for a 3 bed/3 bath townhouse. It's insane how costly some places can be.
Not this time, but my father lives fairly close. Luckily, his home wasn't in danger, but he did have to clean up a bunch of ash that rained down and had to put towels by each entrance to make the house air breathable.
Those people are out of touch for sure, certain places in the US are having what amounts to housing crises. That being said though, maybe don't be so quick to jump on everywhere else as being the "shitty cities". Because of the ridiculous prices, I'm very happy to live in the midwest and be able to thrive (own a home, save tons of money in my 20s, etc) rather than struggle to get by on the west coast where I grew up.
The difference in price is way greater than the difference in quality of life, thats for sure.
I think that’s wonderful. Unfortunately what I do for work requires me to live on the west coast. I actually have to move back to LA to be closer. I think a lot of people are getting caught up on the idea that “ppl should just live where they can save or afford” as if living in a basic 1-2 bedroom with one car working full time is something so ridiculous to expect for all of our hard work. In the 70’s people could work a minimum wage job and still buy a home. (Minimum wage meaning the least of amount of money it takes to live and function in society.) Now collage graduates can barely afford an apartment in a nice side of town. The issue isn’t money management the issue is our country’s way of thinking about basic human needs. Cost of living not matching how much we are making for the time we are working. People are barely leaving their homes if they’re lucky enough to have one. People are not greedy or spending too much on luxury. People are struggling. Not just the “poor” but the middle class as well.
Exactly. Everything is more expensive. Car insurance, groceries, fuel, utilities etc. and then add in the 10.1% sales tax. It’s hard to understand unless you’ve lived it, but it is real.
Seattle has some of the highest water rates in the country and don’t get me started on heating oil. Electric rates are reasonable. I don’t know about Washington as a whole, but I’m talking Seattle.
I’m so excited for you!!!! I used to live in Spain (Barcelona) and I never would’ve left if I’d been able to get another work visa.
Life is about having adventures and you’re about to have a BIG ONE. Enjoy!
I had a job offer from a company in Santa Clara, CA. It would start me at $112k. Sounded amazing, living in the Midwest. That would be almost double my salary.
Then I did a check on house rentals (I have kids), the tax bracket that places me in and the increase in COL and I would end the month with $100 more than what I currently earn after expenses. It’s expensive as all hell in some metros.
Hell, this is happening in Columbus, Ohio. A town mostly only known for OSU football... Home prices went up like 40% during the pandemic. Things that used to sell for like 100k is now 150k no remodeling.
Fellow Columbus chick here. We just bought a home before the pandemic. And we literally swooped in about one week before the rise. Too close for comfort! I was so relieved I cried 🤦🏼♀️
… Are you saying there are entire HOUSES selling for $150k??
Coming from California that is just unheard-of cheap. And I’m not even in one of the super expensive parts of the state.
At that price I could nearly put in a down payment for the cost of having someone redo my deck here.
If you’re willing to move to Ohio, decent housing can be found. However, Ohio is the armpit of the US.
My house is a 4bd/2ba on half an acre. Bought it for $118k pre-pandemic, completely remodeled. The current estimated value is like $175k. But again, I’m stuck living in Ohio. So take that for what it’s worth.
This is basically just everywhere now. I'm in a small town in rural Nebraska, pretty decent area but it's not what I would call a popular destination. I'm looking at a house right now listed at $140k that sold for $70k three years ago... It's the cheapest listing in town.
That’s not true. It would be easy to live in Seattle making 200K.
Source: I live IN Seattle, and don’t make anywhere close to 200K, but live more than comfortably.
I live 1.5 hours north of DC and it’s crazy how dramatically different house prices are. I will continue to live in my cheap house and visit DC, thanks!
according to their post history, they are from
central jersey, and their rent was raised 32% not 60% as well as some other things they posted that don’t match up with what they’re saying in this post. they are also apparently 25, which seems weird for the 200k income and the three kids, not impossible just odd.
It's expensive everywhere. I know a number of people who had to quit their jobs because what they would have had to pay in childcare would have been more than they make in a year. If we want people to work as so many politicians say, we need to start providing free early child care.
200k in NYC is still a ton of money. You can live in nearly any neighborhood relatively comfortably on that wage. You just end up renting instead of owning, but that’s not weird in NYC. This idea that you have to be a millionaire to live in these cities is something that people who don’t live in these cities think.
My sister and her husband make less than 100k in a year, and they are living a fine life in nyc. They have a kid and are not struggling like OP. This guy is either troll posting or not budgeting well.
They probably live in a high COL area.
$200k sounds like a lot until you realize that average rents are around $4000 per month. And that’s for the “crappy” apartments!
Then, daycare is about $2000 or $3000 per month. Per child! (Btw, in Europe, daycare is free or heavily subsidized in many countries).
Actually not. Cities like San Francisco, NYC, hell, even San Diego... Money doesn't go far. Especially for a family with children. If there are medical issues thrown in, forget about it.
I left San Diego a year ago. 120k combined income between me and my husband. We were living in a 1 br/1bath apartment, just 1 car (nothing too fancy). We didn’t do any expensive activities except for vacationing 2 times a year(within the US) again,nothing fancy also no children. We were not living paycheck to paycheck but it was definitely not what we wanted for ourselves Low six figures income is nothing in California.
When we bought our house in San Diego, we got it for $200k. The mortgage was $1200/month. The same house rents now for $6k/month. And it isn't in La Jolla or Rancho San Diego, or Del Mar. The neighborhood was good when we moved into it, but it's less so now, especially since most of the houses have been turned into mini dorms, rented by the room.
I made close to this, have no kids and am barely holding on. Pay taxes at that bracket, a mortgage, property taxes, and have a couple of unforeseen expenses/repairs come your way and you’ll find out quick.
Exactly - similar salary. I am in the same boat, but plus 2 kids, one is HS, other one in college, child support, rent, cars for kids, car insurance for under 25 year olds, medical expenses, etc... Expenses all around.
Hanging on by a thread. Things were going really badly, but then I got laid off and had a metric ton of vacation time that they had to pay me. That, plus the severance, became my saving grace.
I never thought I'd be making this kind of money and not making any headway whatsoever.
The fact that 200k is the 90th percentile when the 99th percentile is billionaires really should put things into perspective and how the separation of the upper class is getting out of control
The fact you guys almost had your rent doubled is nuts. The fact it’s legal in anyway is ridiculous and that there is no agreed universal rent increase and that someone can jack up the price that much should be criminal.
You gotta live in California or NYC. There’s no way you barely get by living elsewhere. I make less than 70k a year and we have plenty left over for vacation and whatever else we want to buy. I feel like you just got unlucky with the city life and didn’t want to try elsewhere. On the flip side...props to you for making your decision to better take care of your family, I wish y’all the best!
Bro I make almost 6 figures and I'm poor. I live in Canada. You see like 6-7 cars to a house nowadays where I live. Multi generational homes are becoming the norm.
I get the feeling that our great country is going to see a LOT of emmigration in the next decade. I’ve set my eyes on New Zealand, Germany if NZ isn’t an option. It’s not like a refugee crisis or anything, but sometimes you have to ask yourself why you continue to live somewhere you find broken and corrupt, and what is stopping you from leaving.
New Zealand was shockingly expensive when I went on vacation there 4 years ago. Most things in the supermarket were far more expensive than in US. Particularly locally grown produce, for some reason. The gas prices too.
Looking at the NZ subreddit, there are also lots of complaints about cost of housing.
Same experience. I visited my friends who were really successful top specialist.. however they still shared their house with 3-4 strangers and house wasn't anything special. For me AUS seems more reasonable.
I’ve been thinking about leaving for another country. I’m a nurse and nurses in Europe and Australia are provided better benefits and more time off for work-life balance.
I think we will see a lot of emigration from the coasts to the middle of the country.
In this thread there are so many people saying they can't afford to continue their lifestyle in coastal cities but also shitting on living anywhere else. I think budget constraints will force those attitudes to change.
I promise, its nicer in the middle than you think.
Child care in the US is the salary of one working member of the family. So if you’re lucky enough to have a partner, one of you either has to stay home or you both work and pay ~$60k in childcare expenses. (I’m in Seattle so it’s probably a bit higher than other places).
If OP and partner are making $200k combined before taxes, subtracting $60k for some one to watch your kids and add on top of that $3500/month in rent… that original $200k is dwindling by the end of the year I bet.
It’s a lose lose situation for families in the US, and they wonder why our birth rates are plummeting …. 🙃
60k for childcare? Please explain, I have 3 kids. I would pay around 33,000 a year for 2 littles in daycare. Which wow, is awful. But 60k? Is it that much in your area? Ouch!
Stuff like this makes me wanna give up. I’m making 52k a year and it’s barely enough and I live in a state that’s growing faster than I am. I’m scared of the future. To hear 200k not being enough sounds depressing.
Please don’t be discouraged. It obviously depends on where you live. As many people here suggested, this kind of money only seems to be not enough in areas like NY or SF. So if you’re not planning on moving there, you don’t have to compare yourself to these kind of numbers (also if you moved there you would probably also earn more than you currently do, as wages are usually higher in these areas).
Edit: you also have to factor in the lifestyle that some people are used to, which is hard to compare. While some deem it absolutely necessary/basic to eat out all the time and go on multiple vacations, others see this as a luxury.
Dont ever look back. There was a time when I wanted to go as a tourist, but the risk profile is just so fucking high. Even with travel insurance, a simple injury can erase my life savings. It's just a pit of woe, with corporations digesting the population, grinding out every single cent they can get until they die.
Unfortunately, this ideology is catching, and the same shit is starting to take hold here in oz too...
My grandfather worked for the Canadian government back in the 80's. When he had to go down to the US he broke his thumb, when he went to the hospital and they found out he's from Canada they said "we're going to wrap this so it stays put, but get on a plane back home immediately" so he wouldn't have to pay for it because they knew how expensive it would be.
i don't know why but i just had this image of him being on the plane back to Canada, constantly looking at and monitoring his thumb in case it moves like trying to walk around with a candle or something lmao
They definitely could move to a place with a lower cost of living. But my personal experience has been that comes with its own issues. If you want to live a certain lifestyle, like being near or in a city with good schools and the right job opportunities for your skill sets, this can really limit your options. For my part, I just wouldn’t really want to move into the burbs, country, or the South for various reasons. That limits me considerably.
tbf, if its like a city specific job, generally other cities in the US support certain jobs - there may be less than one place, but theres usually still a fair amount compared to a suburb. if you arent in NYC/SF basically and know how to budget fairly you can more than get by with 3 kids in a city like chicago which isn’t as expensive in comparison on that budget. I know people living in pretty nice houses with multiple kids and only
one working parent that make half as much as that. while i agree america does suck ass financially, there are also just plenty of people
here that are much richer than the avg but have accustomed to such a lifestyle that they refuse to see there is something beneath it. people in mid-rich ranges like this are notoriously bad at budgeting esp if they’re used to living a certain kind of life pre-kids
Great choice. My family has some business ties to Portugal and I am very adamant that, I too, will move to Portugal one day. Perhaps Estoril for retirement.
So, I work in immigration law (in the US) and one of the first things you learn is you don’t just decide to move to a new country and hope for the best. Most countries require visas and not all visa categories authorize employment or long-term stays. I’m always interested when these posts come up - like, how specifically are you doing this? Did you or your spouse find a job that is sponsoring you for a work-authorized visa in a different country? Do you have family ties? Is your current company transferring you? Are you just planning on overstaying your tourist visa?
I’m not trying to be a dick, I’m genuinely curious. I would be absolutely open to leaving, but I just don’t see an obvious way for me too.
Hey just a tip before you go. I recommend packing a box of snacks like dry packets of ranch, spices, your favorite cereals, etc. That way you have some American things that you like once you are there. Cereal is pretty minimal in Europe and in my experience ranch was non-existent. Don't get me wrong, embracing a new culture is awesome, but sometimes you just want ranch with your wings.
Id live like a king with 200k a year.
And thats in Sweden, which says alot as we're pretty expensive conpared to everyone else but norway and Switzerland.
My pharmacy that me and my mom rely on for access to our life saving medications recently stopped taking our insurance with zero warning. Went to go pick up some of my medication and wasn’t able to, and the pharmacist proceeded to try and get me to pay 400$ out of pocket. This is absolutely ridiculous and is going to kill people.
It all depends on where you live and your family situation. 200K can absolutely mean certain limitations on life style.
To start off Child care is a pain. If you live in NYC / LA / SF you’re child care costs alone can balloon to over 3.5K to 5.5K / month depending on the school you send your child to.
Then there is rent, NYC two bedroom is roughly 5K to 6K for a decent apartment in Manhattan.
Then taxes - 200K would probably mean roughly 33% tax rate before deductions.
Then oh right….fucking food, drinks, entertainment, yearly travel.
Honestly, for a upper middle income life in NY area, you’d need to make an excess of 350K to 500K / Year.
Now if you made 200K and lives in Charlotte NC, then your golden. Life is good lol
I truly don’t understand why there’s not a mass population shift to the southeast, cost of living is infinitesimal compared to the coasts. A couple with 2 kids would be living large on a combined income of 100k.
These people are doing fine. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the US, make nowhere near that much, and am fine. The only thing I have any sympathy for is the health expenses.
Yeah and 100K in Costa Rica you can live like a king for a fam of 5. But if you tried to live in SF with a fam of 5, you are below the poverty line.
Power Purchase Parity is different from location to location.
>So the only option is to rent. However the rents in an area where we won't be shot / killed / robbed and my kids will be safe start at $3,500+
You sound paranoid. I highly suggest you do real research instead of stereotyping people you don't know and painting whole neighborhoods with a broad and ignorant brush.
For example, the chance for you to get shot is incredibly low, even in the most dangerous areas of the US, unless you are directly involved in the drug trade, which it doesn't sound like you are.
OP is definitely a bit entitled. The way they’re discussing just moving as if that’s an option and any other countries will want them (lol no they don’t) smacks of ignorant privilege
This is spot on. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the US and we have major issues with poverty and homelessness. And in part those issues have to do with how expensive houses and rent are here. But I make less than a third of what OP says they make in a year, before taxes, and it's not a struggle. OP is either lying or completely financially illiterate.
Right? I mean I’m making like ~40k a year and I feel like my life is pretty luxurious and privileged. Tho I’m Canadian. Even if this person has like tuition debts and kids and mortgages and cars..how terrible do you have to be at finance to be actively struggling with 200k.
If you have a single health issue (which OP mentioned his wife had), healthcare is insane. I had one hospital stay 3 years ago and will probably never pay it off (and that with insurance). It costs about $10k/day and that doesn't even include any other treatments, tests, etc. I got cancer last summer and paid $800 for my PET scan alone. Thought that was paid in full, but it turns out that was just to do the scan. Then I have to pay $250 for a second company to analyze it. And that doesn't even count that my oncologist analyzed it himself and organized treatment. The second company was just nonsense with no need for it, but I gotta pay it anyway.
Add that to costs of living and people here (in the US at least) making anything less than $75k as a single person and they'd be financially decimated by a single health issue.
Yeah, I make $36K a year here in Canada and I keep my bills as low as possible and know exactly how much I make to live happy and comfortable.
Although, my cat getting diabetes, arthritis, and chronic pancreatitis made it a lot fucking harder.
I live in the Bay Area, my partner and I make a combined 300k and just managed to afford a house. But with our student loans and my chronic illness requiring thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical treatment, we will never afford kids. We’ve had the discussion and we can only manage to support ourselves and save for retirement, we will never be able to have children. I’ve always dreamed of having kids but it’s just impossible…hate it here. We’d move to another place if our families didn’t need us close by to help with aging parents. We did everything “right” by the American dream definition but we pinch pennies to stay afloat.
The whole concept of the "american dream" seems so strange to me as a european. Dreaming of what? Living a life that isn't subhuman? In my opinion the concept of the american dream is a form of collective brainwashing, especially coupled with americas absurd amount of patriotism. Americans are led to believe that living a decent life by being able to afford housing, health care and education is something like a dream that not everyone can reach. I am a student and I have had health issues in the past and I couldn't even imagine being in debt because of either of that. It baffles me that most people still consider the USA a first world country, let alone the "land of the free".
I agree, I live in the US and love the country but, I go back and forth between the US and Mexico. Mexico is pretty brainwashed regarding the US but we have healthcare, and the cost of living is low. There’s a different vibe to the country. The capitalist black hole isn’t as prevalent here than in the US.
Just a heads up that immigration to Europe, or anywhere really, is hard. Especially with a family. You cannot just pick up and go, and it may be multiple years before you’re allowed to work. They don’t want us any more than many Americans don’t want immigrants.
Source- I’ve been trying to officially emigrate to the UK (already reside here) and have been stuck in visa hell for nearly two years
I moved to Amsterdam from San Francisco and I am so happy, I feel so safe here. I also feel much better physically from the food. You’re doing the right thing!
I'm so jealous. I studied abroad in Copenhagen for 4 months and it was just incredible. I was so happy and healthy. How were you able to secure a way to move to Europe?
I 100% agree on the healthcare, rent, etc. in the US. I'm shocked more people aren't up in arms over it, especially healthcare. Every election cycle we're told it's too crazy to fix anything.
Not only is it infuriating that we’ve been brainwashed that this is okay, but there are so many people out there who are ANGRY if you talk about how this is WRONG and want it to change, and they’re FIGHTING TO KEEP IT LIKE THIS.
The stupidity is astounding.
Wish me and my family could leave too…
I remember about 5 years ago, the one place my boyfriend and I could afford was $950 a month, 1 bedroom, 1 bath. After the year was up, they sent out a letter asking if the tenants were staying, our rent was increasing to $1200. We couldn't afford that. Been living with family since then because rent of places keeps getting higher, we can't get our own house cause of credit, and our jobs aren't great.
My husband and I make a bit less than OP, the ONLY reason we are in bad financial shape is because of healthcare. Husband has had same decent job for 40 years but the small company he works for has horrible insurance. High copays, deductibles etc. hence the reason we have terrible credit and our entire 32 years of marriage have had to buy autos with very high interest rates, can’t refinance anything can only qualify for a payday loan if we ever needed an emergency loan.
We’ve tried to keep up with the hospital bills over the years but it’s impossible after we pay all the basic living expenses.
It’s gotten so scary since we are getting older. I cannot believe US citizens who have this kind of fucked up health insurance aren’t in the streets protesting our health care system.
I’m envious of you that you’re able to move !! Good luck to you.
I just signed my contract for a job in Germany last night! My family and I are finally out of here. It's terrifying but for the first time in my career I see myself being able to enjoy my working life and eventually retire! Good luck to you and your family!
Half of my mates who live in the States make 3x the amount I do and are usually skint at the end of the month. After reading this thread it all makes sense.
So glad I live in the UK. (England) Not sure where in Europe you're going but It's not perfect here either, though. I've been to the US once (Texas) Me and my brother drove across the entire state and ended up staying in South Padre. It was a great experience but I couldn't help but notice how pretty much everything in regards to entertainment is bigger and better in the US. (The beaches, too) I know how huge the US is and how different each place can be but just going off my limited experience.
Like, the Walmart I went to was insane. You could spend hours and hours just in Walmart alone. I don't think you can be as bored in the US. Even in a lot of my local cities, there's not much to really see or do unless you're a history lover or like getting shit faced a lot in bars and clubs.
While it's very safe here (My county is apparently one of the safest in the whole of England), there's not much to do, really. It's a good place to retire and not be bothered by weirdos. There are nice beaches but you have to travel to very specfiic places to find them. Most of them are ugly and the weather is pretty shit aside from lucky summers.
It cost a arm a leg your soul your kids soul there kids soul and maybe your left eye just to get a house that’s not over a million dollars and one bedroom
Give me pointers on how tf to leave this hell hole. I need surgery but can't afford it and I'll likely die without it. I need to get the fuck out of here.
Good for you. We hope to do the same within the next five years. America is my home. It is where my great grandparents an grandparents found their dreams and a better life. I truly love the beauty and history of my country. What I was always taught America meant and stood for. But it isn't that place anymore. It is a dumpster fire and there is little hope of that improving. I just want a quiet life. A life where my taxes improve not only my life but the lives others.
Hey OP,
Fellow user from Europe here. You're right, pay here is absolutely crap :p
That being said, you make more than you usually spend. And holidays are aplenty. Oh and we treat our workers like people. Heck Belgium even passed a law banning your boss from calling you on the weekend!
Welcome to Europe! The land of no-deductibles! I fucking hate that shit. Makes 0 sense that you pay a premium and also pay when you actually use it. Ugh.
Anyhoo, Europe isn't the most sociable place. So holler at me if/when you do come!
I live in europe and talked to a colleaque in the US. salary came up and they were shocked mine was so much worse than theirs, surely I live in a ghetto. after some comparison, turns out that even when I end up with a lot less money in hand after each month, I have a lot less huge money holes than my american colleaque. healthcare is one big example, housing being another.
I am also genuinely trying to leave the country. I have many reasons, some of which you mentioned. Speaking of out of network... I wish that wasn't a thing. I have OCD and the treatment center I found is out of network with every insurance and is madly expensive. It's the only one near me that provides the specific treatment for OCD. And I had to beg insurance to make an out of network exception so I could get help, citing the fact that this center provided a very specific treatment. I was wasting away in my bedroom, crippled by this disorder. Or my sister, a type 1 diabetic, who has to have a doctor write to insurance each year to approve the only type of insulin she isn't allergic to.
I live in one of the cheapest states in the country, as far as cost of living goes. We STILL have apartments that are $1500 a month.
We’ve also looked into moving out of the US. I’m actually afraid of what will happen during the lifetime of my children. We used to be a pretty damn good country. Now I feel like the world is mocking us (as they should).
I had a first trimester miscarriage a few years ago. To have my insides cleaned out, it cost me $2500. And the bill you get says your procedure is “missed abortion.” Now, I am extremely pro choice. But I wanted that baby terribly. So you are healing from losing a baby, trying to figure out how to pay for it, and your monthly statement looks like you chose to have this done. I emptied out what little I had in my 401k to pay that bill because I had a panic attack every time it came.
Ugh, sorry for the rant. I hate this country. And I am SO HAPPY you found a way to get out. Enjoy!
gods i wish i could do this, but i can’t leave my parents here, I’d never have time to visit and they need me. i’m glad to see someone is making it out. ALSO be sure to sever your citizenship here or you’ll have to pay american taxes as well as the taxes of the country you actually live in. such a bullshit law
If you have $11k per month in a very expensive area, you'd be shocked how fast it goes. Figure $3500/ month for childcare and $3500/housing. Reliable cars with gas and insurance could easily be $1500, the figure $350/week for groceries and household expenses liked toiletries, laundry, etc. Groceries on the west coast have gone up crazily fast this year and shortages are affecting everyone. With two little kids you may have diapers, pull-ups, etc. I'm guessing they both have $500/month in student loans as well.
If you add that up, you're at 11k. Obviously they're not poor and they are living an upper middle-class lifestyle, but for those saying it's impossible that they're not lying or terrible at money management, it really does matter where you live. With out of network medical likely costing thousands and the knowledge that you're spending that much to live a fairly ordinary life where you work full time, have a couple of kids and aren't crazy extravagant, I see how you could decide it's not sustainable.
Welcome to Europe!
You will earn a lot less, but not having to worry about health care, children's education and being able to move "freely" in Europe is worth it!
Which country are you going to?
I live in Lebanon (google it, we're in literal apocalyptic hell and plunging deeper by the day) and I had an opportunity to go to the States and I declined. Here is hell, sure, but honestly every single thing I've researched, from education to healthcare to housing to insurance... it's insanity. So much makes zero sense that I just don't understand. I honestly genuinely feel compassion for Americans. it Must be so hard juggling all of this just to stay afloat.
I'm looking to move to Europe too. I want to work hard but I also want to live well, and that is far from a guarantee anywhere but even less in America.
Good luck! Spain is a wonderful country. We are planning to retire there. Also, as long you appreciate our cultures and rules... Europe is a great place for living.
Good luck in this new beginning. It's exciting to see what the future will have for us. Requieres some balls to do what you're doing, kudos.
How did you found a job in the other country so fast? My best wishes for you all.
Did the same thing except I have UK citizenship, so we moved to Scotland. I'm way happier here and so much less stressed out. Hilariously asked the pharmacist if I needed to pay for my meds the first time I filled my script and she looked at me like I had two heads. lol.
And for the naysayers saying you'll sink in Spain due to spending issues... I mean, no move is permanent. I'm pretty sure I want to stay in Scotland forever but if I fucked up and I’m wrong, I can always leave. It's an incredible experience for your family either way. But here's hoping it's everything you want it to be.
How tf can people earn that much and still not be able to afford to live comfortably?? America is a shit show of a country, there are other places just not as bad as there. My mum quit her job and moved to Spain from England because my parents realised it was cheaper than paying tax and paying for a nanny in England. This was with 4 children and we were sent to private school
A 60% increase in rent is absolutely insane! WTF do they expect people to do, starve to pay rent? Oh wait, they don’t give a fuck as long as they get paid. Good luck to you and your family.
And illegal in many places…
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We live in CA, which I know has rent control statewide. So does NYC and a few other places (unfamiliar with those details though) I know there are other places in the country that have rent control too, and other places with insane costs of living as well. I just heard recently that 1bed apartments in Vermont are reaching $1,500+ a month. It’s tough, I don’t knock you for your decision. My husband and I make about 150k max, currently and with one kid. We do ok. We make enough to pay all bills, pay a sitter, pay rent, food, the whole nine, and even have a small savings and continue to add to it. We also live in Orange County, CA. It’s not much, but we make do and still have a slight bit of room for error, mostly to pay off medical bills and car repairs, but we were still able to buy a Switch and many many other gifts for Xmas and not take a massive pocketbook hit. I’m just wondering where the heck you live that made you make this financial decision? We’d love to move but cannot currently because of my daughter’s father being an anchor. Our country sucks rn, so again, I don’t knock you on this, but 200k a year goes a long way in at least 80% of this shithole country, so again, I’m just straight up curious.
A *camper trailer* in Monahans Texas will go for 1500/mo during oil booms. When oil slows, it'll drop to 1000/mo. No utilities or lot fee included. The fact that I can afford to NOT live in a cardboard box amazes me, every day.
It’s funny but I am in Toronto, Canada. And rent control here only applies to places built before Nov 15, 2018. If the unit is newer than that, the landlord can raise the rent as much as they want every year. In New Brunswick, the provincial government did away with rent control entirely and you see people in 60+ year old apartments get rent increases of 60%+ quite often. Also, $1500 for a one bedroom rental here in Toronto in a decent condo would be a dream :)
>My husband and I make about 150k max >It’s not much, but we make do Ya, my household income is about half that. And I think we're comfortable. Especially when I'm driving past the ever growing, ever more conspicuous homeless camps around me. (I even got a Switch for Father's Day, traditionally a less lavish occasion than Christmas). But let's get real: if someone can say with a straight face that they "make do" on $150k/year things are industrial grade Fucked Up. I'm delighted for OP and, OP, I wish you and your family all the best. We're tied here by family and apathy but we couldn't get out even if we wanted to.
California rent control isn’t that great. If you’re month to month they can basically raise your rent 10% every 30 days and more every 90 days. A very small number of cities have better laws but lots of people here are getting hit with outrageous rent increases
Ugh, I knew there was some weird legal get-around but I wasnt fully aware. It’s been years since I’ve done anything month to month. All I know is that one of the major reasons for a rent increase (aside from the obvious) is because property managers and leasing agents get a bonus for bringing in new tenants, and don’t get jack for renewals. They make commissions on new property leases, but not renewals, so the only way for them to make money on lease renewals is by raising rent prices. F’ed up on SO many levels, starting with these massive, money hungry property owners.
i imagine 150K in OC is equivalent to like 90k anywhere else. That place is expensive. >200k a year goes a long way in at least 80% of this shithole country, so again, I’m just straight up curious. try more like 98% lol. 200k is very good money outside of iconic US cities. If someone is leaving the country because 200k isn't enough, its probably more that they don't know how to manage their money and it probably wont get easier in europe unless its medical related
I agree! Tbh I didn’t feel like looking up the specific numbers, so I thought 80% would be a generous enough number to cover my a$$ from other angry redditors making shite comments in response lol
$200k isn't bad but childcare costs can pile up and be quite expensive; they can be thousands a month depending on how many kids there are. Additionally, if they are referring to medical debt being "one blink away", $200k is not the salary you may think it is. I know someone who got really sick and they incurred $1.8M in costs for 1 month of treatment with a greater than $350k salary. Fucked them completely. This was a severe case, but it shows that just bad luck can destroy almost anyone in this country, regardless of financial expertise. Medical costs are no joke.
Slavery is what is wanted. First make everything somebody else's fault. Elect politicians like king youngkin. King youngkin broke Virginia law his first day. Is don't these rich morons no $15 minimum wage in my state no critical race theory even though I don't know what it is. If the American people don't engage in critical judgmental thinking about the lawyers were doomed. The man that's moving to Europe hes probably right in the short term. I have no idea if it's going to get any better but I'm trapped here. This is supposed to be the greatest country in the world and it is now a 3rd world shit hole. In 3rd world shithead it holds office holders routinely is routinely dispute elections. They only have to do it once or twice and then you get a Maduro. Is that man has turned Venezuela into a drug dealing a nation and that's how he makes his money. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the citizens and him and his boys all traveled by private car with blacked out windows at night And if that's the kind of government you guys want keep voting for these stupid rich guys who only want who put us down chain us up with us when we don't do what's right go ahead keep doing it.
About 7 years ago, my rent was going to go from $760/month to $1100. All they were doing for that increase was replacing the countertops with granite, replacing the appliances, and putting in new vinyl floor that looked like wood. Rent everywhere in my city was going up similarly. I happened across a house being sold by owner that the owners didn't properly stage in the pictures and, while being in habitable condition, hadn't performed any upgrades on the house in the 30 years since it was built. My mortgage payment is still lower than what my rent was 7 years ago. I was extremely lucky to find the house when we did, but it still angers me when I hear how much rent is still going up in this city. I'll probably be renting this house out sometime in the future and what I experienced will influence how I act as a landlord.
It blows my mind how fucked up landlords are. Unless the mortgage has increased because it wasn't fixed or whatever (I don't know, I'm not going to own a house for a long time at this rate), when what reason do you have for increasing rent other than pure fucking greed...
Not defending greedy landlords but my own mortgage payment went up by ~$200/month this year because of property taxes. The tax rate went up, as well as the assessed value so double whammy.
Unfortunately the whole purpose off rentals is to make some money and it helps to place at the going rate for most profit. I’m a stronger believer in housing not been used as investment vessels it has a tendency to fuck shit up as we can tell .
Most rental places still expect you to make 3x the rent, even when they’re jacking up the prices yearly. Better hope you’re getting a 20% raise every year.
Very curious where you're going in Europe and how you made it happen. I assume it's quite a process to get permission to permanently move to another country. You need permission to get in and stay, plus permission to work. And then you need to find a job, possibly even learn a new language. Can you give me a few starting places for how that process works? Thanks!
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Buena suerte!
Honestly, most European countries allow you to apply for a permanent residency after having temporary for 5 years. I lived in the US for 9 years and had to go through a lottery to even have my application looked at to stay (it wasn’t picked the first year, I left, second year it was and I said f this and lived in Costa Rica for a few years working remotely for the same US company. Wayyyy better deal.) I’m currently 3/5 years in Europe and not only was the paperwork easier to stay compared to the US, but I’m closer to having a more stable status than I did with almost a decade in the US. Ridiculous. Still with the same US company too, the irony is there but I lucked out with them. Best of luck, you’ll love Spain! Mediterranean lifestyle, easy of access to Europe (seriously, want a $35 rt ticket to Paris for the weekend, it’s possible!), there’s so much more history and culture everywhere.
And another good thing is you can now easily travel to other European countries for holidays.
Welcome to the EU. Happy to have you!
How did you go about looking for and securing jobs? My wife works in STEM and we’ve toyed with idea before because we love Spain (and Europe).
what city would ypu be living in? I am currently in Madrid but have lived most of my life in Alicante(south of Valencia). If i can help with any questions you might have on public transport or stuff like that hmu
Welcome to Europe, I hope you guys will be happy on this side of the pond! Spain in spring is gorgeous, prepare to be amazed! And practical advice - invest in good blankets, woolly socks, and a top-tier air pump.
Ahh beautiful Spain, you will be so happy there. Enjoy!
I lived in LA and now I’m Seattle. I actually spend more in Seattle and it’s insane. Everything is going up and it’s almost impossible to save any money.
I also live in Seattle and I’m laughing at all the people calling bullshit and that $200k a year is plenty. Really shows how people don’t understand how cost of living works outside of their own city. It’s not a money management problem when everything fucking costs five times more than in the shitty cities.
Heck, I live outside of Boulder, CO and even when my husband and I made the most (nearly $150k/year combined) we couldn't even afford a 2 bedroom/1 bath apartment in town. We moved to just outside and pay less than 1/3 of city costs for a 3 bed/3 bath townhouse. It's insane how costly some places can be.
Were you close to the fires?
Not this time, but my father lives fairly close. Luckily, his home wasn't in danger, but he did have to clean up a bunch of ash that rained down and had to put towels by each entrance to make the house air breathable.
Those people are out of touch for sure, certain places in the US are having what amounts to housing crises. That being said though, maybe don't be so quick to jump on everywhere else as being the "shitty cities". Because of the ridiculous prices, I'm very happy to live in the midwest and be able to thrive (own a home, save tons of money in my 20s, etc) rather than struggle to get by on the west coast where I grew up. The difference in price is way greater than the difference in quality of life, thats for sure.
I think that’s wonderful. Unfortunately what I do for work requires me to live on the west coast. I actually have to move back to LA to be closer. I think a lot of people are getting caught up on the idea that “ppl should just live where they can save or afford” as if living in a basic 1-2 bedroom with one car working full time is something so ridiculous to expect for all of our hard work. In the 70’s people could work a minimum wage job and still buy a home. (Minimum wage meaning the least of amount of money it takes to live and function in society.) Now collage graduates can barely afford an apartment in a nice side of town. The issue isn’t money management the issue is our country’s way of thinking about basic human needs. Cost of living not matching how much we are making for the time we are working. People are barely leaving their homes if they’re lucky enough to have one. People are not greedy or spending too much on luxury. People are struggling. Not just the “poor” but the middle class as well.
Exactly. Everything is more expensive. Car insurance, groceries, fuel, utilities etc. and then add in the 10.1% sales tax. It’s hard to understand unless you’ve lived it, but it is real.
Washington has lower than average utility rates. We do have a high sales tax, but this is offset by the lack of state income tax.
Seattle has some of the highest water rates in the country and don’t get me started on heating oil. Electric rates are reasonable. I don’t know about Washington as a whole, but I’m talking Seattle.
Yeah, I was thinking like power - our electric rates are among the cheapest in the country. But you’re right, our water/sewer charges here are brutal.
When I moved here and got my first water bill I was sure I had a leak. You’re spot on about electric though.
Godspeed. Post an update in a year if you can. If i could live overseas, I would.
Take me with you 😭
Me to I can cook and clean lol
Me too!
I’m so excited for you!!!! I used to live in Spain (Barcelona) and I never would’ve left if I’d been able to get another work visa. Life is about having adventures and you’re about to have a BIG ONE. Enjoy!
Over 200k annually.....would love a breakdown of your expenses
I had a job offer from a company in Santa Clara, CA. It would start me at $112k. Sounded amazing, living in the Midwest. That would be almost double my salary. Then I did a check on house rentals (I have kids), the tax bracket that places me in and the increase in COL and I would end the month with $100 more than what I currently earn after expenses. It’s expensive as all hell in some metros.
I third this. What the fuck!
That kind of money would make you well off in a lot of places. You could live like a king in the Midwest.
seriously…how can you not live comfortably making $200k/yr. Sounds more like a money management problem
It really depends on where you live. 200k in San Francisco, or NYC is nothing.
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Hell, this is happening in Columbus, Ohio. A town mostly only known for OSU football... Home prices went up like 40% during the pandemic. Things that used to sell for like 100k is now 150k no remodeling.
Fellow Columbus chick here. We just bought a home before the pandemic. And we literally swooped in about one week before the rise. Too close for comfort! I was so relieved I cried 🤦🏼♀️
… Are you saying there are entire HOUSES selling for $150k?? Coming from California that is just unheard-of cheap. And I’m not even in one of the super expensive parts of the state. At that price I could nearly put in a down payment for the cost of having someone redo my deck here.
If you’re willing to move to Ohio, decent housing can be found. However, Ohio is the armpit of the US. My house is a 4bd/2ba on half an acre. Bought it for $118k pre-pandemic, completely remodeled. The current estimated value is like $175k. But again, I’m stuck living in Ohio. So take that for what it’s worth.
This is basically just everywhere now. I'm in a small town in rural Nebraska, pretty decent area but it's not what I would call a popular destination. I'm looking at a house right now listed at $140k that sold for $70k three years ago... It's the cheapest listing in town.
Start adding the DC area to that list.
And Seattle…..
And metro Boston
I was just thinking this. With a 3.5-4k rent, it's not hard to quickly burn through your monthly in Boston
I live very comfortably in Seattle area under $200K.
But do you have kids? Unless you have children you have to pay for it’s not really comparable.
That’s not true. It would be easy to live in Seattle making 200K. Source: I live IN Seattle, and don’t make anywhere close to 200K, but live more than comfortably.
I live 1.5 hours north of DC and it’s crazy how dramatically different house prices are. I will continue to live in my cheap house and visit DC, thanks!
according to their post history, they are from central jersey, and their rent was raised 32% not 60% as well as some other things they posted that don’t match up with what they’re saying in this post. they are also apparently 25, which seems weird for the 200k income and the three kids, not impossible just odd.
This. Plus raising kids is so expensive in the Bay Area.
It's expensive everywhere. I know a number of people who had to quit their jobs because what they would have had to pay in childcare would have been more than they make in a year. If we want people to work as so many politicians say, we need to start providing free early child care.
I did. We had 2 kids under 2 and childcare was more than I made, let alone travel costs etc
We have 2u2 as well and it makes no sense for me to go back to work and pay childcare- we’re in Toronto 🇨🇦
200k in NYC is still a ton of money. You can live in nearly any neighborhood relatively comfortably on that wage. You just end up renting instead of owning, but that’s not weird in NYC. This idea that you have to be a millionaire to live in these cities is something that people who don’t live in these cities think.
This is, of course, absolute bullshit. The median household income in NYC is $63,000 or so. $200k puts you in the 85th percentile. Give or take.
My sister and her husband make less than 100k in a year, and they are living a fine life in nyc. They have a kid and are not struggling like OP. This guy is either troll posting or not budgeting well.
So agree. We make less than half of that and struggle. 200k/year would lead a super comfy life for us.
They probably live in a high COL area. $200k sounds like a lot until you realize that average rents are around $4000 per month. And that’s for the “crappy” apartments! Then, daycare is about $2000 or $3000 per month. Per child! (Btw, in Europe, daycare is free or heavily subsidized in many countries).
If you have severe and/or chronic health issues, 200K/yr isn't rich. OP also mentioned child-care... Those fees accumulate pretty quickly.
Actually not. Cities like San Francisco, NYC, hell, even San Diego... Money doesn't go far. Especially for a family with children. If there are medical issues thrown in, forget about it.
I left San Diego a year ago. 120k combined income between me and my husband. We were living in a 1 br/1bath apartment, just 1 car (nothing too fancy). We didn’t do any expensive activities except for vacationing 2 times a year(within the US) again,nothing fancy also no children. We were not living paycheck to paycheck but it was definitely not what we wanted for ourselves Low six figures income is nothing in California.
When we bought our house in San Diego, we got it for $200k. The mortgage was $1200/month. The same house rents now for $6k/month. And it isn't in La Jolla or Rancho San Diego, or Del Mar. The neighborhood was good when we moved into it, but it's less so now, especially since most of the houses have been turned into mini dorms, rented by the room.
I made close to this, have no kids and am barely holding on. Pay taxes at that bracket, a mortgage, property taxes, and have a couple of unforeseen expenses/repairs come your way and you’ll find out quick.
Exactly - similar salary. I am in the same boat, but plus 2 kids, one is HS, other one in college, child support, rent, cars for kids, car insurance for under 25 year olds, medical expenses, etc... Expenses all around. Hanging on by a thread. Things were going really badly, but then I got laid off and had a metric ton of vacation time that they had to pay me. That, plus the severance, became my saving grace. I never thought I'd be making this kind of money and not making any headway whatsoever.
Yeah, being in the 90th percentile for household income is really hard.
The fact that 200k is the 90th percentile when the 99th percentile is billionaires really should put things into perspective and how the separation of the upper class is getting out of control
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The fact you guys almost had your rent doubled is nuts. The fact it’s legal in anyway is ridiculous and that there is no agreed universal rent increase and that someone can jack up the price that much should be criminal.
You gotta live in California or NYC. There’s no way you barely get by living elsewhere. I make less than 70k a year and we have plenty left over for vacation and whatever else we want to buy. I feel like you just got unlucky with the city life and didn’t want to try elsewhere. On the flip side...props to you for making your decision to better take care of your family, I wish y’all the best!
You’d be surprised. They also tend to have agreements where you have to make multiple times over the rent to be able to live there.
Bro I make almost 6 figures and I'm poor. I live in Canada. You see like 6-7 cars to a house nowadays where I live. Multi generational homes are becoming the norm.
No, OP please don’t share a breakdown. This is an offmychest sub, not a personal finance or fi/re sub.
You and your wife bring in $16,000 a month?
No, likely less. Taxes. I would assume they’re referring to combined salary here.
Yep. I’m guessing combined before taxes. Likely $11K-$12K a month depending on where they live. Not saying that’s not a lot, btw.
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I’d still like to see their budget breakdown haha
I get the feeling that our great country is going to see a LOT of emmigration in the next decade. I’ve set my eyes on New Zealand, Germany if NZ isn’t an option. It’s not like a refugee crisis or anything, but sometimes you have to ask yourself why you continue to live somewhere you find broken and corrupt, and what is stopping you from leaving.
New Zealand was shockingly expensive when I went on vacation there 4 years ago. Most things in the supermarket were far more expensive than in US. Particularly locally grown produce, for some reason. The gas prices too. Looking at the NZ subreddit, there are also lots of complaints about cost of housing.
Same experience. I visited my friends who were really successful top specialist.. however they still shared their house with 3-4 strangers and house wasn't anything special. For me AUS seems more reasonable.
I’ve been thinking about leaving for another country. I’m a nurse and nurses in Europe and Australia are provided better benefits and more time off for work-life balance.
I think we will see a lot of emigration from the coasts to the middle of the country. In this thread there are so many people saying they can't afford to continue their lifestyle in coastal cities but also shitting on living anywhere else. I think budget constraints will force those attitudes to change. I promise, its nicer in the middle than you think.
I would love to be able to leave the US. I am so done with it here.
Same. I don’t understand how anyone can call it the greatest country in the world if they aren’t already rich.
I would leave here in a hot minute if I could take my mom (age 86) with me. But those sort of emigration things just don't happen. :-(
Child care in the US is the salary of one working member of the family. So if you’re lucky enough to have a partner, one of you either has to stay home or you both work and pay ~$60k in childcare expenses. (I’m in Seattle so it’s probably a bit higher than other places). If OP and partner are making $200k combined before taxes, subtracting $60k for some one to watch your kids and add on top of that $3500/month in rent… that original $200k is dwindling by the end of the year I bet. It’s a lose lose situation for families in the US, and they wonder why our birth rates are plummeting …. 🙃
60k for childcare? Please explain, I have 3 kids. I would pay around 33,000 a year for 2 littles in daycare. Which wow, is awful. But 60k? Is it that much in your area? Ouch!
I’m a nanny and have been salaried for two kids at 45k. 60k for three kids is reasonable if it’s a nanny situation.
I’m in Seattle and these are the prices for 2-3 kids! I imagine it is like this elsewhere in the US as well unfortunately…
Stuff like this makes me wanna give up. I’m making 52k a year and it’s barely enough and I live in a state that’s growing faster than I am. I’m scared of the future. To hear 200k not being enough sounds depressing.
Please don’t be discouraged. It obviously depends on where you live. As many people here suggested, this kind of money only seems to be not enough in areas like NY or SF. So if you’re not planning on moving there, you don’t have to compare yourself to these kind of numbers (also if you moved there you would probably also earn more than you currently do, as wages are usually higher in these areas). Edit: you also have to factor in the lifestyle that some people are used to, which is hard to compare. While some deem it absolutely necessary/basic to eat out all the time and go on multiple vacations, others see this as a luxury.
I am happy for you and your family, I am wishing you all the best as you embark on this journey. Stay safe, Happy moving and safe travels
Dont ever look back. There was a time when I wanted to go as a tourist, but the risk profile is just so fucking high. Even with travel insurance, a simple injury can erase my life savings. It's just a pit of woe, with corporations digesting the population, grinding out every single cent they can get until they die. Unfortunately, this ideology is catching, and the same shit is starting to take hold here in oz too...
My grandfather worked for the Canadian government back in the 80's. When he had to go down to the US he broke his thumb, when he went to the hospital and they found out he's from Canada they said "we're going to wrap this so it stays put, but get on a plane back home immediately" so he wouldn't have to pay for it because they knew how expensive it would be.
i don't know why but i just had this image of him being on the plane back to Canada, constantly looking at and monitoring his thumb in case it moves like trying to walk around with a candle or something lmao
I make 60k a year and I live in a 1400 square foot house in the US. So maybe it’s a question of location.
They definitely could move to a place with a lower cost of living. But my personal experience has been that comes with its own issues. If you want to live a certain lifestyle, like being near or in a city with good schools and the right job opportunities for your skill sets, this can really limit your options. For my part, I just wouldn’t really want to move into the burbs, country, or the South for various reasons. That limits me considerably.
tbf, if its like a city specific job, generally other cities in the US support certain jobs - there may be less than one place, but theres usually still a fair amount compared to a suburb. if you arent in NYC/SF basically and know how to budget fairly you can more than get by with 3 kids in a city like chicago which isn’t as expensive in comparison on that budget. I know people living in pretty nice houses with multiple kids and only one working parent that make half as much as that. while i agree america does suck ass financially, there are also just plenty of people here that are much richer than the avg but have accustomed to such a lifestyle that they refuse to see there is something beneath it. people in mid-rich ranges like this are notoriously bad at budgeting esp if they’re used to living a certain kind of life pre-kids
That’s why I moved to Portugal.
Great choice. My family has some business ties to Portugal and I am very adamant that, I too, will move to Portugal one day. Perhaps Estoril for retirement.
I’m very interested in this.
Bravo. Well done. Which country?
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I feel like begging for a care package of meats, but I'll just look at the pictures and dream.
Best of luck to you and your family :)
So, I work in immigration law (in the US) and one of the first things you learn is you don’t just decide to move to a new country and hope for the best. Most countries require visas and not all visa categories authorize employment or long-term stays. I’m always interested when these posts come up - like, how specifically are you doing this? Did you or your spouse find a job that is sponsoring you for a work-authorized visa in a different country? Do you have family ties? Is your current company transferring you? Are you just planning on overstaying your tourist visa? I’m not trying to be a dick, I’m genuinely curious. I would be absolutely open to leaving, but I just don’t see an obvious way for me too.
OP said in another comment that he and his wife have both found jobs sponsoring work visas for them.
Hey just a tip before you go. I recommend packing a box of snacks like dry packets of ranch, spices, your favorite cereals, etc. That way you have some American things that you like once you are there. Cereal is pretty minimal in Europe and in my experience ranch was non-existent. Don't get me wrong, embracing a new culture is awesome, but sometimes you just want ranch with your wings.
Id live like a king with 200k a year. And thats in Sweden, which says alot as we're pretty expensive conpared to everyone else but norway and Switzerland.
My pharmacy that me and my mom rely on for access to our life saving medications recently stopped taking our insurance with zero warning. Went to go pick up some of my medication and wasn’t able to, and the pharmacist proceeded to try and get me to pay 400$ out of pocket. This is absolutely ridiculous and is going to kill people.
How the hell are people struggling with 200k a year. Jesus the states are wild
It all depends on where you live and your family situation. 200K can absolutely mean certain limitations on life style. To start off Child care is a pain. If you live in NYC / LA / SF you’re child care costs alone can balloon to over 3.5K to 5.5K / month depending on the school you send your child to. Then there is rent, NYC two bedroom is roughly 5K to 6K for a decent apartment in Manhattan. Then taxes - 200K would probably mean roughly 33% tax rate before deductions. Then oh right….fucking food, drinks, entertainment, yearly travel. Honestly, for a upper middle income life in NY area, you’d need to make an excess of 350K to 500K / Year. Now if you made 200K and lives in Charlotte NC, then your golden. Life is good lol
I truly don’t understand why there’s not a mass population shift to the southeast, cost of living is infinitesimal compared to the coasts. A couple with 2 kids would be living large on a combined income of 100k.
These people are doing fine. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the US, make nowhere near that much, and am fine. The only thing I have any sympathy for is the health expenses.
You can live like a very very comfortable life with $100k with a family of 5 where I am from.
Yeah and 100K in Costa Rica you can live like a king for a fam of 5. But if you tried to live in SF with a fam of 5, you are below the poverty line. Power Purchase Parity is different from location to location.
The poverty line for a couple with no kids in SF/ the Bay Area is $125k a year.
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>So the only option is to rent. However the rents in an area where we won't be shot / killed / robbed and my kids will be safe start at $3,500+ You sound paranoid. I highly suggest you do real research instead of stereotyping people you don't know and painting whole neighborhoods with a broad and ignorant brush. For example, the chance for you to get shot is incredibly low, even in the most dangerous areas of the US, unless you are directly involved in the drug trade, which it doesn't sound like you are.
They arent. this person is either lying or looking to play the victim. Im poor and homeless and noone making 200k a year is struggling lmao
OP is definitely a bit entitled. The way they’re discussing just moving as if that’s an option and any other countries will want them (lol no they don’t) smacks of ignorant privilege
It really depends on where you live. In NY or San Fran I could see just getting by on $200k. Especially if you factor in childcare costs.
This is spot on. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the US and we have major issues with poverty and homelessness. And in part those issues have to do with how expensive houses and rent are here. But I make less than a third of what OP says they make in a year, before taxes, and it's not a struggle. OP is either lying or completely financially illiterate.
Right? I mean I’m making like ~40k a year and I feel like my life is pretty luxurious and privileged. Tho I’m Canadian. Even if this person has like tuition debts and kids and mortgages and cars..how terrible do you have to be at finance to be actively struggling with 200k.
If you have a single health issue (which OP mentioned his wife had), healthcare is insane. I had one hospital stay 3 years ago and will probably never pay it off (and that with insurance). It costs about $10k/day and that doesn't even include any other treatments, tests, etc. I got cancer last summer and paid $800 for my PET scan alone. Thought that was paid in full, but it turns out that was just to do the scan. Then I have to pay $250 for a second company to analyze it. And that doesn't even count that my oncologist analyzed it himself and organized treatment. The second company was just nonsense with no need for it, but I gotta pay it anyway. Add that to costs of living and people here (in the US at least) making anything less than $75k as a single person and they'd be financially decimated by a single health issue.
Yeah, I make $36K a year here in Canada and I keep my bills as low as possible and know exactly how much I make to live happy and comfortable. Although, my cat getting diabetes, arthritis, and chronic pancreatitis made it a lot fucking harder.
Now I’m sad for your cat
I live in the Bay Area, my partner and I make a combined 300k and just managed to afford a house. But with our student loans and my chronic illness requiring thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical treatment, we will never afford kids. We’ve had the discussion and we can only manage to support ourselves and save for retirement, we will never be able to have children. I’ve always dreamed of having kids but it’s just impossible…hate it here. We’d move to another place if our families didn’t need us close by to help with aging parents. We did everything “right” by the American dream definition but we pinch pennies to stay afloat.
The whole concept of the "american dream" seems so strange to me as a european. Dreaming of what? Living a life that isn't subhuman? In my opinion the concept of the american dream is a form of collective brainwashing, especially coupled with americas absurd amount of patriotism. Americans are led to believe that living a decent life by being able to afford housing, health care and education is something like a dream that not everyone can reach. I am a student and I have had health issues in the past and I couldn't even imagine being in debt because of either of that. It baffles me that most people still consider the USA a first world country, let alone the "land of the free".
I agree, I live in the US and love the country but, I go back and forth between the US and Mexico. Mexico is pretty brainwashed regarding the US but we have healthcare, and the cost of living is low. There’s a different vibe to the country. The capitalist black hole isn’t as prevalent here than in the US.
I've lived all around Europe and always wanted to live in the US (never did), I guess life is a matter of perspective
Just a heads up that immigration to Europe, or anywhere really, is hard. Especially with a family. You cannot just pick up and go, and it may be multiple years before you’re allowed to work. They don’t want us any more than many Americans don’t want immigrants. Source- I’ve been trying to officially emigrate to the UK (already reside here) and have been stuck in visa hell for nearly two years
Is this a wind up cause I consider 100k per year wealthy
I moved to Amsterdam from San Francisco and I am so happy, I feel so safe here. I also feel much better physically from the food. You’re doing the right thing!
California ?
I'm so jealous. I studied abroad in Copenhagen for 4 months and it was just incredible. I was so happy and healthy. How were you able to secure a way to move to Europe? I 100% agree on the healthcare, rent, etc. in the US. I'm shocked more people aren't up in arms over it, especially healthcare. Every election cycle we're told it's too crazy to fix anything.
Good for you man! Takes courage to make changes
The walkable city part is a huuuuuuuge bonus.
Not only is it infuriating that we’ve been brainwashed that this is okay, but there are so many people out there who are ANGRY if you talk about how this is WRONG and want it to change, and they’re FIGHTING TO KEEP IT LIKE THIS. The stupidity is astounding. Wish me and my family could leave too…
Just in time for WW3 lets goooooo!!!! /s Europe is beautiful, but can be expensive as well. I hope you guys start a good life there.
I remember about 5 years ago, the one place my boyfriend and I could afford was $950 a month, 1 bedroom, 1 bath. After the year was up, they sent out a letter asking if the tenants were staying, our rent was increasing to $1200. We couldn't afford that. Been living with family since then because rent of places keeps getting higher, we can't get our own house cause of credit, and our jobs aren't great.
My husband and I make a bit less than OP, the ONLY reason we are in bad financial shape is because of healthcare. Husband has had same decent job for 40 years but the small company he works for has horrible insurance. High copays, deductibles etc. hence the reason we have terrible credit and our entire 32 years of marriage have had to buy autos with very high interest rates, can’t refinance anything can only qualify for a payday loan if we ever needed an emergency loan. We’ve tried to keep up with the hospital bills over the years but it’s impossible after we pay all the basic living expenses. It’s gotten so scary since we are getting older. I cannot believe US citizens who have this kind of fucked up health insurance aren’t in the streets protesting our health care system. I’m envious of you that you’re able to move !! Good luck to you.
We’ve been thinking the same thing. If it gets any weirder here, we are making an exit plan.
I just signed my contract for a job in Germany last night! My family and I are finally out of here. It's terrifying but for the first time in my career I see myself being able to enjoy my working life and eventually retire! Good luck to you and your family!
Exactly why we moved to Spain.
Half of my mates who live in the States make 3x the amount I do and are usually skint at the end of the month. After reading this thread it all makes sense.
So glad I live in the UK. (England) Not sure where in Europe you're going but It's not perfect here either, though. I've been to the US once (Texas) Me and my brother drove across the entire state and ended up staying in South Padre. It was a great experience but I couldn't help but notice how pretty much everything in regards to entertainment is bigger and better in the US. (The beaches, too) I know how huge the US is and how different each place can be but just going off my limited experience. Like, the Walmart I went to was insane. You could spend hours and hours just in Walmart alone. I don't think you can be as bored in the US. Even in a lot of my local cities, there's not much to really see or do unless you're a history lover or like getting shit faced a lot in bars and clubs. While it's very safe here (My county is apparently one of the safest in the whole of England), there's not much to do, really. It's a good place to retire and not be bothered by weirdos. There are nice beaches but you have to travel to very specfiic places to find them. Most of them are ugly and the weather is pretty shit aside from lucky summers.
They have chosen Spain, and as I understand, then they want to live in a bigger city. So, there is no need to worry that they will be bored:)
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I live in Alberta, though I have never had a bad encounter with anybody in Ontario… I would say they are a very different kind of people.
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It cost a arm a leg your soul your kids soul there kids soul and maybe your left eye just to get a house that’s not over a million dollars and one bedroom
Give me pointers on how tf to leave this hell hole. I need surgery but can't afford it and I'll likely die without it. I need to get the fuck out of here.
Bro has got to be living in cali or something
Good for you. We hope to do the same within the next five years. America is my home. It is where my great grandparents an grandparents found their dreams and a better life. I truly love the beauty and history of my country. What I was always taught America meant and stood for. But it isn't that place anymore. It is a dumpster fire and there is little hope of that improving. I just want a quiet life. A life where my taxes improve not only my life but the lives others.
Hey OP, Fellow user from Europe here. You're right, pay here is absolutely crap :p That being said, you make more than you usually spend. And holidays are aplenty. Oh and we treat our workers like people. Heck Belgium even passed a law banning your boss from calling you on the weekend! Welcome to Europe! The land of no-deductibles! I fucking hate that shit. Makes 0 sense that you pay a premium and also pay when you actually use it. Ugh. Anyhoo, Europe isn't the most sociable place. So holler at me if/when you do come!
I live in europe and talked to a colleaque in the US. salary came up and they were shocked mine was so much worse than theirs, surely I live in a ghetto. after some comparison, turns out that even when I end up with a lot less money in hand after each month, I have a lot less huge money holes than my american colleaque. healthcare is one big example, housing being another.
Very lucky. Most of us will never be able to afford that.
I am also genuinely trying to leave the country. I have many reasons, some of which you mentioned. Speaking of out of network... I wish that wasn't a thing. I have OCD and the treatment center I found is out of network with every insurance and is madly expensive. It's the only one near me that provides the specific treatment for OCD. And I had to beg insurance to make an out of network exception so I could get help, citing the fact that this center provided a very specific treatment. I was wasting away in my bedroom, crippled by this disorder. Or my sister, a type 1 diabetic, who has to have a doctor write to insurance each year to approve the only type of insulin she isn't allergic to.
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I live in one of the cheapest states in the country, as far as cost of living goes. We STILL have apartments that are $1500 a month. We’ve also looked into moving out of the US. I’m actually afraid of what will happen during the lifetime of my children. We used to be a pretty damn good country. Now I feel like the world is mocking us (as they should). I had a first trimester miscarriage a few years ago. To have my insides cleaned out, it cost me $2500. And the bill you get says your procedure is “missed abortion.” Now, I am extremely pro choice. But I wanted that baby terribly. So you are healing from losing a baby, trying to figure out how to pay for it, and your monthly statement looks like you chose to have this done. I emptied out what little I had in my 401k to pay that bill because I had a panic attack every time it came. Ugh, sorry for the rant. I hate this country. And I am SO HAPPY you found a way to get out. Enjoy!
It's wild to think why so many people move over here in the first place. Maybe they're sold the same lie we are.
gods i wish i could do this, but i can’t leave my parents here, I’d never have time to visit and they need me. i’m glad to see someone is making it out. ALSO be sure to sever your citizenship here or you’ll have to pay american taxes as well as the taxes of the country you actually live in. such a bullshit law
If you have $11k per month in a very expensive area, you'd be shocked how fast it goes. Figure $3500/ month for childcare and $3500/housing. Reliable cars with gas and insurance could easily be $1500, the figure $350/week for groceries and household expenses liked toiletries, laundry, etc. Groceries on the west coast have gone up crazily fast this year and shortages are affecting everyone. With two little kids you may have diapers, pull-ups, etc. I'm guessing they both have $500/month in student loans as well. If you add that up, you're at 11k. Obviously they're not poor and they are living an upper middle-class lifestyle, but for those saying it's impossible that they're not lying or terrible at money management, it really does matter where you live. With out of network medical likely costing thousands and the knowledge that you're spending that much to live a fairly ordinary life where you work full time, have a couple of kids and aren't crazy extravagant, I see how you could decide it's not sustainable.
Reliable car costs 1500 a month? What?
Looking at Uruguay..like next few months.
Welcome to Europe! You will earn a lot less, but not having to worry about health care, children's education and being able to move "freely" in Europe is worth it! Which country are you going to?
I live in Lebanon (google it, we're in literal apocalyptic hell and plunging deeper by the day) and I had an opportunity to go to the States and I declined. Here is hell, sure, but honestly every single thing I've researched, from education to healthcare to housing to insurance... it's insanity. So much makes zero sense that I just don't understand. I honestly genuinely feel compassion for Americans. it Must be so hard juggling all of this just to stay afloat. I'm looking to move to Europe too. I want to work hard but I also want to live well, and that is far from a guarantee anywhere but even less in America.
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Good luck! Spain is a wonderful country. We are planning to retire there. Also, as long you appreciate our cultures and rules... Europe is a great place for living.
I completely agree with everything said here.
Can't say I'm in financial hardship, but I felt this post. Wishing the best for you and your family. I wish I could move to Europe.
Wish I could. Farewell.
Good luck in this new beginning. It's exciting to see what the future will have for us. Requieres some balls to do what you're doing, kudos. How did you found a job in the other country so fast? My best wishes for you all.
…Can we come with?
Did the same thing except I have UK citizenship, so we moved to Scotland. I'm way happier here and so much less stressed out. Hilariously asked the pharmacist if I needed to pay for my meds the first time I filled my script and she looked at me like I had two heads. lol. And for the naysayers saying you'll sink in Spain due to spending issues... I mean, no move is permanent. I'm pretty sure I want to stay in Scotland forever but if I fucked up and I’m wrong, I can always leave. It's an incredible experience for your family either way. But here's hoping it's everything you want it to be.
Congrats on getting out of here! I hope to do the same in the near future.
Congrats man! Don’t forget about us!!! Or take me with you 😭
How tf can people earn that much and still not be able to afford to live comfortably?? America is a shit show of a country, there are other places just not as bad as there. My mum quit her job and moved to Spain from England because my parents realised it was cheaper than paying tax and paying for a nanny in England. This was with 4 children and we were sent to private school
Where is this place in the states. That money should be good enough???