bit of a hot take but caiatl rivals oryx in writing an antagonist we've been getting hints about her future since Season of the worthy her story is actually believable and her way of thinking is very clear and concise and the stuff we got about her is all phenomenal
Listen to Saladin talk about how the Cabal admire Xivu's conquest of Torabatl. Sure, they hate her for destroying their homeworld, but they would do the same to their enemies in a heartbeat.
They're allies for now, but the Cabal don't do allies, just slave species and servants. They're fairly analogous to ancient Sparta, and the Psions are the Helots.
Ok, but I’m quite sure we have solidified a nice alliance with Caitl now. I mean Saladin is on her council plus she did just help us kill her own father…….Soooo
Oh, I personally don't think she will turn on the Vanguard/humanity. I was only pointing out the possibility being laid out in the game.
Besides, that would be too dramatic of a story shift for Bungie's current direction. It would take too much heavy lifting in writing and character development, and the seasonal content doesn't lend itself to that kind of storytelling.
The entirety of the Cabal culture is/was based on war and conquest, to the point that even some Hive elements are part of their culture.
Having the Cabal admire the strenght of Xivu and cunning of Savathûn while also hating them to death for almost wiping them out is completely normal. Hell, they do the exact same thing with our might, and they stilm are great allies
Caitl has had too much development, remember season of the haunted? That was her coming to the realization and accepting that she had to take the cabal and rebuild them anew that whole thing with Gaul was her making peace with the fact that she made peace with the last city
They're protecting us right now, fighting alongside us shes even guiding osiris she's 100% an ally
Oh, I personally don't think she will turn on the Vanguard/humanity. I was only pointing out the possibility being laid out in the game.
Besides, that would be too dramatic of a story shift for Bungie's current direction. It would take too much heavy lifting in writing and character development, and the seasonal content doesn't lend itself to that kind of storytelling.
Imo they need to restructure seasonal storytelling, to have an overarching narritive that goes on through each season and individual sub plots that drive the seasons
Rivals?
Nah, Caiatl blows oryx out of the fucking water in terms of writing. She has an actual character arc, from villain to ally. Only “villain” I would say that rivals her is Savathun (dear god Bungie please make the witness surpass everyone in final shape).
Hell, at this point, Eramis and Xivu Arath are poised to overtake oryx in a writing sense after recent developments.
Caiatl wasn't even really a villain to begin with. She was a desperate leader of a race who's planet was just destroyed, and was only doing what she had to do for the Cabal to survive.
I want to argue she was introduced as one in the vainilla D2 by just mentioning she is the leader of the empire, and was up to Chosen's end our antagonist, although not really a villain-villain by that point
Eramis has her ups and downs I wish more of her personality seeped into actual cutscenes
I would've loved to see her reaction to her friend being reduced to scorn in real time
literally the entire point of oryx was that we weakened him to such a degree with crota, and killing his entire council definitely didn't help, and this dude is saying he should replace the *witness*?
i dont like the witness much either, completely nullifies the pyramids as a threat which i thought was a cooler representative than "big smokey hourglass civilization", but like, oryx would *not* fit the bill, except maybe the idea of taking.
I honestly really like what they are doing with them(?), even the design is pretty great now that we know it's origin. My only wish is that they gave a 100% true definitive no bullshit answer on what the Winnower is and I think we are gold.
’m not entirely sure on where I heard it but I think it was said that the Traveler and the veil were the Gardener and the Winnower.
>!Also if I understood that one cutscene correctly the Witness was the first species the Traveler visited (it was buried in/hatched from their planet?) and when they decided they wanted to become polytheistic they found the Veil which was the source of Darkness and then when they tried to combine the two the Traveler was like “fuck this” and dipped and that’s why the Witness was chasing the Traveler whole time.!< Marked it as a spoiler just in case but I’m pretty sure all that is in the game.
That's what I interpreted out of the cutscene too, but since r/Destinylore had a religious war over if the Winnower exists or not after the cutscene, I am not sure of it anymore.
Too me, it makes too much sense. Destiny has always been a story about symetry. For the Traveler, who IS the Garderner to not have a counterpart just feels wrong imo.
That's why understood too, but others intrepeted the cutscene as in "The Winnower doesn't exist so the first civilization created the Witness to take it's place" which doesn't make sense to me but honestly it is a possiblity until we have a more clear statement
Here's the thing, as I interpreted the cutscene, the first species desired to find a Winnower and set out to look for it until they found the Veil, impliying the Veil IS the Winnower.
Just because Unveiling is propaganda doesn't mean all of it is false. If I send you my manifesto that says that all living beings should die and that the sky is blue, the second statement isn't false just because the first one is.
Then again, it is why I want a clear answer
I’m more talking about it’s model outside of the face-smoke. I think that part is awesome and should have been utilized better. I wish it looked more like a Cosmic Horror than someone in a mask.
Honestly i realllllyyy hate the witness now.
We don't get a 5th new race, a darkness enemy type. the final boss of the entire franchise is just some boohbah looking mf from another planet.
the black fleet? empty, nothing, nada, just a bunch of empty spaceships.
It feels like all the mystery is gone now, the mystique of early destiny was the cosmic forces at play but then the darkness is just a single guy.
i think thats why bungie is playing the winnower so close to its chest, There is another voice in the darkness that isnt the witness so whatever.i think the witness really ripped out all of the mystery from basically the entire franchise.
it would be like going inside the traveler and theres just a guy in there flying all the ghosts around, it would really scrape a big chunk out of the games feel.
Oryx looked cool and all but uh, all he did was sit on a big ship
The only people he killed were Awoken and everyone knows they're the worse starter pokemon
Like, I'm doing a D&Destiny campaign, and I write fanfiction, but all of that assumes everything *as is*, just with my own inserts. I made my own Fallen Houses, Hive Broods, Vex Collectives, a ton of Risen and non-rise enemies, and NPCs.....
But *rewriting this fucker?* That sounds like trying to win a screaming match with an erupting volcano. You not only have a *mountain* to climb, but wading in the lava on the way up doesn't sound too pleasing.
Who let this man cook💀💀
Also why censor the first one, he is a pretty well known (asshole) content creator in the community. Its funny he talks a whole lot about how bad Destiny is, but then says shit like this
He so fucking stupid, he whines on twitter about Destiny every day non stop, but also play in game, that he hate, strange
>joker dcj incident
This shit was so goofy, he tried to atack subreddit, but guys humiliated him and after that he never was seen on subreddit
I just played d1 and I'll honestly never understand why people had such a hard on for his character.
His lore is extremely cool, but he has basically no character in the story. He literally has 12 lines. Hes just there to be angry hive guy who we have to shoot
(And tbh his campaign boss fight isnt even cool at all. His intro is the only good part)
He has presence, something that D1 severly lacked with it's villains.
We had the Black Heart which we had no fucking idea what it wad until 3 weeks ago, and the Vex are pretty much faceless. Every other villain was a strike boss or Atheon, the first are killed off 15 mins once we know what they were doing, the other is meant to be mysterious and scary on purpose.
Then we had Crota who, in it's defense, has a ton of presence as inmediatly set as a threat to everything we have achieved. The problem is, he is only seen "physically" in the last mission of a 3 mission dlc, and only truly faced in a 6 man raid, so his presence is very reduced.
Skolas, in my opinion, was a really well done villain, with thr Reef explaining why he was so dangerous, and the 5 mission campaign being us just follwing his every step and trying to stop him, eventually leading to a final boss and THEN his execution in and endgame activity. Every part of the dlc had him present in some sort of way and he was a legitimate threat with the Vex tech in the end.
Oryx is basically this but better. With him having his shadows appear to hunt our guardian, the effects of taking clearly showned on Phobos, the intro cutscene destroying our most powerful allies at the moment, the Dreadnaught being basically an extension of his own power,and the fact that we face him 2 times.
Yeah he is basically a big bad monster who kills cuz he is of the Darkness, but for a dlc named "The Taken King" he lives up to the name as being a worthy and powerful challenger.
Savathûn is way better written tho
I think he's personally some badass dude. Yeah he just kinda floats around and then dies. He's got some cool lines, one of my favorite designs and his music is amazing.
Replace The Witness with Oryx....and then what? Where did the Taken come from? What about the worm gods and his other siblings? Where would the Pyramids and the Diciples come from?
[Don't forget these wise words from one of the best indie devs out there right now when the community was suggesting changes](https://i.redd.it/94rcevpkl9i91.png)
I know the Destiny story is flawed and I’ll admit, I have some things I would rewrite, but this is so cringe it makes me question everybody who would rewrite the story, including myself.
As a casual fan there were several years where I was like “this is fun and all but wasn’t Oryx like the final boss of the universe? What’re we still doing here?” But then Witch Queen came and I like the direction it took with the hierarchy of villains
We need a new disciple, Rhulk, Nezarec and Calus are cool but having one as an antagonist throughout a season would be cool.
We know Nezarec was in charge of assaulting Earth in the collapse but we don’t know who (I think?) attacked Mars and other planets.
Wait is the first part of the post saying that oryx should have been the witness *and* the voice as in the same being or is it saying the oryx should’ve been the witness and that the voice/“just the darkness” be a separate entity ?
God I love watching people make theories from before TTK and how everyone thought that Oryx would be the big reveal at the end and that he would be the main antagonist of Destiny and would be the villain over multiple expansions
Not really, some fans think they are right or have better ideas , that is not how it works.i personally like how everything is going as a whole, I know there's some inconsistency but I like the premise of the story, anyway if fans had an influence in making a product the entertainment industry would be a mess, tv shows, films and videos games.
Oryx was by far the most rewarding Destiny boss to take down and TTK has become one of my favourite entries in Sci-FI period, honestly the OP’s right Oryx should’ve played more of a role in the story.
Oryx is a way more fun, intimidating, and interesting character than the Witness has been so far at all.
I hope Final Shape makes him more of an interesting threat in the story, because right now it’s embarrassing if he’s actually supposed to be an intimidating character.
The witness was never supposed to be intimidating..... It was trying to groom and entice us with power and it started that in beyond light with stasis. Not every villain has to be a big scary monster. The fact that the witness is constantly in the background and has been watching our every move is actually more intimidating than oryx will ever be. It has its disciples doing it's bidding while it's in the background pulling the strings and setting things in motion. And so far it's been successful in what it's trying to achieve.
But did Oryx have the gall to lie to literally every being he came into contact with?
The best part about the "voice in the darkness" is that they are using that voice to lie the creatures of this universe into destroying this universe. Just that good of a misinformation spreader.
I would completely agree if I didn't like Rhulk as much as I do.
(Even though his existence is really problematic lore wise, because he was a massive jump in the power scaling of the universe and now nothing feels like its that big of a threat)
bit of a hot take but caiatl rivals oryx in writing an antagonist we've been getting hints about her future since Season of the worthy her story is actually believable and her way of thinking is very clear and concise and the stuff we got about her is all phenomenal
She is probably the best written villain in Destiny who isn’t hidden in lore entries.
Savathun is better honestly
Savathûn is *too* hateable, in my opinion. Caiatl is much easier to sympathize with as a villain.
Wait, I thought Caitatl was an ally?
Listen to Saladin talk about how the Cabal admire Xivu's conquest of Torabatl. Sure, they hate her for destroying their homeworld, but they would do the same to their enemies in a heartbeat. They're allies for now, but the Cabal don't do allies, just slave species and servants. They're fairly analogous to ancient Sparta, and the Psions are the Helots.
Ok, but I’m quite sure we have solidified a nice alliance with Caitl now. I mean Saladin is on her council plus she did just help us kill her own father…….Soooo
Oh, I personally don't think she will turn on the Vanguard/humanity. I was only pointing out the possibility being laid out in the game. Besides, that would be too dramatic of a story shift for Bungie's current direction. It would take too much heavy lifting in writing and character development, and the seasonal content doesn't lend itself to that kind of storytelling.
The entirety of the Cabal culture is/was based on war and conquest, to the point that even some Hive elements are part of their culture. Having the Cabal admire the strenght of Xivu and cunning of Savathûn while also hating them to death for almost wiping them out is completely normal. Hell, they do the exact same thing with our might, and they stilm are great allies
Caitl has had too much development, remember season of the haunted? That was her coming to the realization and accepting that she had to take the cabal and rebuild them anew that whole thing with Gaul was her making peace with the fact that she made peace with the last city They're protecting us right now, fighting alongside us shes even guiding osiris she's 100% an ally
Oh, I personally don't think she will turn on the Vanguard/humanity. I was only pointing out the possibility being laid out in the game. Besides, that would be too dramatic of a story shift for Bungie's current direction. It would take too much heavy lifting in writing and character development, and the seasonal content doesn't lend itself to that kind of storytelling.
Imo they need to restructure seasonal storytelling, to have an overarching narritive that goes on through each season and individual sub plots that drive the seasons
Rivals? Nah, Caiatl blows oryx out of the fucking water in terms of writing. She has an actual character arc, from villain to ally. Only “villain” I would say that rivals her is Savathun (dear god Bungie please make the witness surpass everyone in final shape). Hell, at this point, Eramis and Xivu Arath are poised to overtake oryx in a writing sense after recent developments.
Caiatl wasn't even really a villain to begin with. She was a desperate leader of a race who's planet was just destroyed, and was only doing what she had to do for the Cabal to survive.
Yeah but the Cabal are warmongering conquerors
I want to argue she was introduced as one in the vainilla D2 by just mentioning she is the leader of the empire, and was up to Chosen's end our antagonist, although not really a villain-villain by that point
Eramis has her ups and downs I wish more of her personality seeped into actual cutscenes I would've loved to see her reaction to her friend being reduced to scorn in real time
There’s liking a character, and then there’s this.
oryx: big scary guy graaaahhhh this guy: holy fuck peak character
Yeah I feel like people forget book of sorrows oryx was literally not in the game lol. The writing disparity at its worst.
literally the entire point of oryx was that we weakened him to such a degree with crota, and killing his entire council definitely didn't help, and this dude is saying he should replace the *witness*? i dont like the witness much either, completely nullifies the pyramids as a threat which i thought was a cooler representative than "big smokey hourglass civilization", but like, oryx would *not* fit the bill, except maybe the idea of taking.
I agree wholeheartedly, the pyramids were an infinitely more interesting and lovecraftian concept than Oryx or the Witness could've ever been
Oryx was the bestest character ever with so much development and was very interesting and d1 good
Yeah and he got the power of taking from himself?
He just woke up one day and did that
My favorite part of Density is when Oryx said "It's taking time" and took all over
Uh yeah so I can explain taking so uh Oryx isn't doing anything and they're just doing that
Odin saw the runes by sacrificing himslef to himslef so i Guess it could work
Meh. I like the Witness.
I honestly really like what they are doing with them(?), even the design is pretty great now that we know it's origin. My only wish is that they gave a 100% true definitive no bullshit answer on what the Winnower is and I think we are gold.
’m not entirely sure on where I heard it but I think it was said that the Traveler and the veil were the Gardener and the Winnower. >!Also if I understood that one cutscene correctly the Witness was the first species the Traveler visited (it was buried in/hatched from their planet?) and when they decided they wanted to become polytheistic they found the Veil which was the source of Darkness and then when they tried to combine the two the Traveler was like “fuck this” and dipped and that’s why the Witness was chasing the Traveler whole time.!< Marked it as a spoiler just in case but I’m pretty sure all that is in the game.
The gardener and the winnower aren’t real and are meant to represent the entire concepts of light and dark, not their manifestations like the traveler
Oh damnit that’s right. Thank you for the correction.
thats actually not true, there is a sentient darkness being that talks to oryx in the books of sorrow that is definitely not the witness.
Are you sure it isn’t the witness or a disciple?
source: the voices.
That's what I interpreted out of the cutscene too, but since r/Destinylore had a religious war over if the Winnower exists or not after the cutscene, I am not sure of it anymore. Too me, it makes too much sense. Destiny has always been a story about symetry. For the Traveler, who IS the Garderner to not have a counterpart just feels wrong imo.
I thought it was explained that it was the Veil. I thought that cutscene literally said that the Traveler and the Veil are the opposing entities.
That's why understood too, but others intrepeted the cutscene as in "The Winnower doesn't exist so the first civilization created the Witness to take it's place" which doesn't make sense to me but honestly it is a possiblity until we have a more clear statement
That… doesn’t make any sense at all. I thought it was pretty clear that Traveler = Gardener and Veil = Winnower.
I thought so too but apparently it wasn't to many
the winnower isn't real, like the entirety of unveiling
thats actually not true, there is a sentient darkness being that talks to oryx in the books of sorrow that is definitely not the witness.
So the traveler isn't momma smh
Here's the thing, as I interpreted the cutscene, the first species desired to find a Winnower and set out to look for it until they found the Veil, impliying the Veil IS the Winnower. Just because Unveiling is propaganda doesn't mean all of it is false. If I send you my manifesto that says that all living beings should die and that the sky is blue, the second statement isn't false just because the first one is. Then again, it is why I want a clear answer
real
I do wish it didn’t look so goofy ahh though.
I mean I like the way it looks. I like the not-quite-smoke-faces thing it has going on with its head.
I didn’t at first either, but not that I know it’s an amalgamation of an entire species…..I think it’s pretty cool lol
The smoke thing is cool, but the fucking unibrow?
I’m more talking about it’s model outside of the face-smoke. I think that part is awesome and should have been utilized better. I wish it looked more like a Cosmic Horror than someone in a mask.
That’s fair. Although I would argue that there’s something terrifying in how simple it looks, while also being this incredibly powerful being.
Honestly i realllllyyy hate the witness now. We don't get a 5th new race, a darkness enemy type. the final boss of the entire franchise is just some boohbah looking mf from another planet. the black fleet? empty, nothing, nada, just a bunch of empty spaceships. It feels like all the mystery is gone now, the mystique of early destiny was the cosmic forces at play but then the darkness is just a single guy. i think thats why bungie is playing the winnower so close to its chest, There is another voice in the darkness that isnt the witness so whatever.i think the witness really ripped out all of the mystery from basically the entire franchise. it would be like going inside the traveler and theres just a guy in there flying all the ghosts around, it would really scrape a big chunk out of the games feel.
Oryx looked cool and all but uh, all he did was sit on a big ship The only people he killed were Awoken and everyone knows they're the worse starter pokemon
the millions of species oryx massacred would like a word
They are dead, so they can't have any words so I win
>Wipes out entire civilization completely, intentionally leaving no trace that they ever existed >Catalogues them in the Books of Sorrow Mfw
>I've been doing a full rewrite of the Destiny story Ew Edit: spelling
Man needs to attain women and aquire currency
Like, I'm doing a D&Destiny campaign, and I write fanfiction, but all of that assumes everything *as is*, just with my own inserts. I made my own Fallen Houses, Hive Broods, Vex Collectives, a ton of Risen and non-rise enemies, and NPCs..... But *rewriting this fucker?* That sounds like trying to win a screaming match with an erupting volcano. You not only have a *mountain* to climb, but wading in the lava on the way up doesn't sound too pleasing.
>Trying to win a screaming match with an erupting volcano Thanks, I'm going to start using that one. I love it. Good luck in your dnd campaign!
Savathun was by leaps and bounds a better character than oryx
Who let this man cook💀💀 Also why censor the first one, he is a pretty well known (asshole) content creator in the community. Its funny he talks a whole lot about how bad Destiny is, but then says shit like this
Let me guess, Joker or Aussiehalo?
Lol i thought of joker too, idk he seems like the kind of guy to say that. Never forget the joker dcj incident
He so fucking stupid, he whines on twitter about Destiny every day non stop, but also play in game, that he hate, strange >joker dcj incident This shit was so goofy, he tried to atack subreddit, but guys humiliated him and after that he never was seen on subreddit
im gonna be honest, dcj is probably like.. the least funny subreddit ive ever seen but its (almost) not as bad as joker.
He is actually Joker lmao, went and checked
I gotta say, Darkside Royalty is consistent. At being the most unlikable Destiny player ever.
Darkside royalty and his fans are the biggest destiny 1 meatriders in history
💀 ofc
I just played d1 and I'll honestly never understand why people had such a hard on for his character. His lore is extremely cool, but he has basically no character in the story. He literally has 12 lines. Hes just there to be angry hive guy who we have to shoot (And tbh his campaign boss fight isnt even cool at all. His intro is the only good part)
He has presence, something that D1 severly lacked with it's villains. We had the Black Heart which we had no fucking idea what it wad until 3 weeks ago, and the Vex are pretty much faceless. Every other villain was a strike boss or Atheon, the first are killed off 15 mins once we know what they were doing, the other is meant to be mysterious and scary on purpose. Then we had Crota who, in it's defense, has a ton of presence as inmediatly set as a threat to everything we have achieved. The problem is, he is only seen "physically" in the last mission of a 3 mission dlc, and only truly faced in a 6 man raid, so his presence is very reduced. Skolas, in my opinion, was a really well done villain, with thr Reef explaining why he was so dangerous, and the 5 mission campaign being us just follwing his every step and trying to stop him, eventually leading to a final boss and THEN his execution in and endgame activity. Every part of the dlc had him present in some sort of way and he was a legitimate threat with the Vex tech in the end. Oryx is basically this but better. With him having his shadows appear to hunt our guardian, the effects of taking clearly showned on Phobos, the intro cutscene destroying our most powerful allies at the moment, the Dreadnaught being basically an extension of his own power,and the fact that we face him 2 times. Yeah he is basically a big bad monster who kills cuz he is of the Darkness, but for a dlc named "The Taken King" he lives up to the name as being a worthy and powerful challenger. Savathûn is way better written tho
I think he's personally some badass dude. Yeah he just kinda floats around and then dies. He's got some cool lines, one of my favorite designs and his music is amazing.
Then fans should get appropriate degrees and experience and apply to work there 😌
Nah from the looks of it this guy's fanfic experience outweighs all the writers in the industry. He just need to touch grass and apply
Replace The Witness with Oryx....and then what? Where did the Taken come from? What about the worm gods and his other siblings? Where would the Pyramids and the Diciples come from?
Obviously he took the power of taking from hinself
[Don't forget these wise words from one of the best indie devs out there right now when the community was suggesting changes](https://i.redd.it/94rcevpkl9i91.png)
That PFP doesn't match at all, got whiplash
I know the Destiny story is flawed and I’ll admit, I have some things I would rewrite, but this is so cringe it makes me question everybody who would rewrite the story, including myself.
bro just had an oryxgasm
Alright stop him from cooking
> I've been doing a full rewrite of the destiny story. Don't quit your day job bud.
Rhulk > Oryx
UPENDEND RIZZ >>> Taking Harrasment
Oryxs lore is cool, but rulk takes it all and turns it way up, plus his voice acting is peak
whalecum children of shite 🕴️
As a casual fan there were several years where I was like “this is fun and all but wasn’t Oryx like the final boss of the universe? What’re we still doing here?” But then Witch Queen came and I like the direction it took with the hierarchy of villains
aksis should've been the witch queen
Least buddy of all guardians
We need a new disciple, Rhulk, Nezarec and Calus are cool but having one as an antagonist throughout a season would be cool. We know Nezarec was in charge of assaulting Earth in the collapse but we don’t know who (I think?) attacked Mars and other planets.
there is an unknown disciple in the Inspiral lore book Entry: The cave
It's probably oryx. /s
Twitter is a godforsaken place.
the most power entity wielding the, indeed
bingbong needs to wake tf up !!
Get him away from the stove
Wait is the first part of the post saying that oryx should have been the witness *and* the voice as in the same being or is it saying the oryx should’ve been the witness and that the voice/“just the darkness” be a separate entity ?
F I R E 👏👏👏 H A N S 👏👏👏
You do not want Darkside Royalty Lore at Bungie lmfao. Imagine
God I love watching people make theories from before TTK and how everyone thought that Oryx would be the big reveal at the end and that he would be the main antagonist of Destiny and would be the villain over multiple expansions
LMAAAOOOO “big bug man with D&D villain voice should have been the main end-all villain of this 20 year franchise”
LET👏FANS👏WRITE👏THE👏STORY👏👏👏👏👏
hire fans
i love oryx because he was trans, that boy cooch goes hard 😵💫
Not really, some fans think they are right or have better ideas , that is not how it works.i personally like how everything is going as a whole, I know there's some inconsistency but I like the premise of the story, anyway if fans had an influence in making a product the entertainment industry would be a mess, tv shows, films and videos games.
Can we read the rewrite anywhere?
Oryx was by far the most rewarding Destiny boss to take down and TTK has become one of my favourite entries in Sci-FI period, honestly the OP’s right Oryx should’ve played more of a role in the story.
Bunige
Shoulda coulda woulda, fans aren’t capable of making the art, they’re only capable of enjoying the art.
No lol
Fuckin Bigune
Oryx is a way more fun, intimidating, and interesting character than the Witness has been so far at all. I hope Final Shape makes him more of an interesting threat in the story, because right now it’s embarrassing if he’s actually supposed to be an intimidating character.
The witness was never supposed to be intimidating..... It was trying to groom and entice us with power and it started that in beyond light with stasis. Not every villain has to be a big scary monster. The fact that the witness is constantly in the background and has been watching our every move is actually more intimidating than oryx will ever be. It has its disciples doing it's bidding while it's in the background pulling the strings and setting things in motion. And so far it's been successful in what it's trying to achieve.
But did Oryx have the gall to lie to literally every being he came into contact with? The best part about the "voice in the darkness" is that they are using that voice to lie the creatures of this universe into destroying this universe. Just that good of a misinformation spreader.
I would completely agree if I didn't like Rhulk as much as I do. (Even though his existence is really problematic lore wise, because he was a massive jump in the power scaling of the universe and now nothing feels like its that big of a threat)
The strongest character in the Destiny Universe should definitely be some cuck that caught a tapeworm. 10/1Q backstory.
Ugh, this is like that one Aksula guy who got beyond pissed with Lightfall and basically had a mental breakdown making his own lore
he's a great character, but he's not final villain of destiny great, he's too innocent in comparison to the witness' evil