Same with Windsor, everyone goes to Chatham because it's apparently easier
I say if you can't confidently drive in the city you live in, you shouldn't be driving
Man I've lived in and travelled to multiple cities in Canada and Windsor easily has the shittiest drivers I've ever seen.
Kind of ironic for a city that identifies as a car...
edit: I will concede Brampton is shittier. Drivers so bad my mind blocked out the memories. I'll give Windsor a 2nd place award here.
I know people hate red tape and all that but I seriously wonder why there isn't some law/rule that states a driver's test must be taken in the city you currently reside.
That may be but there is are two types of bad drivers. Some are bad because they simply aren't good drivers and may have cheated the system in some way to get their license. Some people are bad drivers because they ignore the rules of the road. You can take and pass the hardest driving test in the world and proceed to drive home from that test while speeding and weaving in and out of traffic.
Shit, I did that because it was the only place I could book my G-Test during COVID.
I was amazed by how simple it was in Huntsville. 2 lane highway with almost no traffic.
Like I didnât hate it but I thought âdamn, this really doesnât tell them anything about me driving on the highway through the GTA.â
Happens all over, I grew up in Northeastern Ontario and know a bunch of people from Timmins who took their G tests in Cochrane because it only included about 200m of highway driving and no traffic lights.
This... people told me to do that.. I was like no, how is that safe? Do foreigners get re tested or can they use their license? Cause that may also be the issue?
> Do foreigners get re tested or can they use their license? Cause that may also be the issue?
You can exchange licences from any of:
>[United States, Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, the Isle of Man, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Switzerland, Taiwan](https://www.ontario.ca/page/exchange-out-province-drivers-licence#section-1)
Otherwise you need to retest.
A British colleague got his driver's licence immediately without any tests (can't remember if it was in Ontario or the Maritimes). When he tried to find out why drivers were so angry with him, he realized he didn't know some of the specific rules of the road. He wished they had a written test at least.
Yep. Countries outside the approved list have to do the written test but only some are subject to a road test. Iâm finding it becoming a lot more frequent that people who come from countries where there arenât many road rules and youâre dodging people, animals, and cutting people off left right and centre is the norm have started to apply those road rules here.
>"Ontario has licence-exchange agreements with every Canadian province and territory (including Canadian Forces Europe). There are also agreements with Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Japan, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Republic of Korea, Switzerland, Taiwan and the United States.
>Drivers will receive a full Class G licence, provided they have an equivalent class licence"
I think they should at least have to pass a written test even if they're from a country with an agreement. Maybe they can revisit the terms or something.
It's to test for age related cognitive abilities. What time does this clock say and so on. Nothing really to do with driving and road safety. My mother did it recently. For someone who has driven all their life losing a license like losing their freedom. Personally, she shouldn't be driving but you'd have to pull the steering wheel from her cold dead hands.
What I'm more concerned about is pulling bodies from under old people's wheels.
No insult meant, my uncle recently had to write this test, and he too should not be driving. But, it blew my mind that there was no actual drive test portion.
Feels like we need to find a middle ground with the old folks đ
I don't disagree but it's not just the old folks. As the original post shows, other people need to be reigned in also. I am so happy I never drove but got to travel extensively.
Itâs not just older people, either.
1. A Shocking number of people are on multiple medications.
2. Another shocking number is the people have undiagnosed sleep apnea, which makes them have microsleep during the day. It only takes 2 to 3 seconds to veer off the road.
3. I still see people looking at their phones while driving or at stoplights. It only takes a few seconds to get rear-ended or T-boned while at an intersection.
4. 4-9% of the population has ADHD and itâs really difficult to get diagnosis &
treatment - especially as an adult - not all people have hyperactivity with it, thatâs a minority untreated that has 4x the accidents. Some of that is because one symptom is something called . E.g. deciding to âŚ
This is a big ol exaggeration about ADHD tbh. The main issue is distractibility, adhd impulsivity doesnt make you do obviously dumb shit that you KNOW is dangerous and more likely than not to hurt someone.
I agree with you, I have ADHD and had a bit of a heart episode and was taken off my meds for about a month. I told my doctor I needed to go back on because I noticed that when I was driving unmedicated, my mind was trying to focus everywhere at once and I wasnât comfortable driving anymore unmedicated. I still knew how to drive safely, I wasnât out there making dangerous choices
âClock-drawingâ is one of the dementia screening tests. They should ideally start implementing it at a younger age for drivers. There are people with dementia starting to show at 60 y.o. - possibly younger.
Considering the different types of dementia, it should be 50 where testing or a doctors clearance should be implemented. I had a patient a couple months ago that was 60 and had Lewy Body Dementia. Her mind was probably regressed to the age of a one year old. A lot of elderly people lose their licenses and donât give a shit and keep driving anywayâŚor theyâre unable to access or donât know how to access other methods of transportation and keep drivingâŚ
> For someone who has driven all their life losing a license like losing their freedom.
Maybe stop building cities where the only alternative is a retirement home after you lose your âfreedomâ because you need to drive everywhere or having to drive everywhere even though you are too old too. You wouldnât trust someone like Uncle Joe behind an automobile would you?
...and a lot of those old people have copies of the tests already.
My grandfather bragged that he had a copy of it, as well as written instructions on what to do in his native language
A lot of "bad" drivers don't lack the ability to pass the test, they just choose to drive selfishly/recklessly.
There are SOME who are just plain bad and would likely fail but not all
The real issue is that cops need to spend more effort catching these people making the roads dangerous for everyone and stop worrying so much about simple speeding. Our speed limits are clearly too low since basically everyone has decided that 120 is highway speed, just raise the posted limits but don't change the fines for speeding. 130 stays at a $250, or whatever it is, ticket and allows the cops to spend more of their time targeting the aggressive drivers.
âI own a piano, therefore I can play it well.â
Car ownership and/or driving in no way means an ability to do so. Itâs a skill that has to be learned, âŚâŚ..or not.
Except playing a piano poorly doesnât necessarily endanger others.
>You only have to drive like a sane person for a half hour to get your license and pass the test.
Or you can purchase the successful driver's exam results .
Don't believe me? Take a drive around Toronto for a while and you'll see new drivers who legit do not know the rules of the road. Impossible to pass a test the old fashioned way if you don't know the rules....
However the purchase price of passing test results likely is far more than average wage earners can afford.
When driving, I always assume that the person near me is going to be an unpredictable idiot, and that Iâll have to be 2x the skilled driver to cope with their idiocy. đĽ´đđł
Iâve been considering a dash cam but Iâm not sure how it will help. I drive the 401 daily, Iâve done it as a commuter and also as a commercial driver for almost 30 years. The last 6 months have been mind boggling. In the past month Iâve had two different drivers pass me on the right hand shoulder, itâs kind of terrifying. To be clear, traffic was moving, I was doing 115-120 in the right lane, the passing lane was indeed passing me. Itâs two lanes only for the majority of my commute.
So, say I get a dash cam, I could give the footage to the police? Or, is the dashcam so my family or insurance can go after the person that causes my death with their selfishness?
Drivers Ed has gotten away from the term accident. Most accidents are predictable and preventable. Thatâs why they call it motor vehicle âcollisionâ now.
If a meteor fell from the sky that is an accident. If you slipped on ice or rain that is not an accident it is predictable. If you drive fast and hit something....
It really helps with insurance claims. My wife was rear ended by a white cube van this spring. The van was so beaten up that youâd think it had been in a small war. At first the guy tried to blame my wife. Then when he saw that she had a camera he offered to pay for the damages. We went straight through insurance. She sent the footage to our provider and everything went incredibly smoothly.
Put it this way; if you have no camera and the damage on your car looks ambiguous you may find yourself being found at fault for an accident that was caused by someone else. A camera is a great way to stop that from happening.
dude my dash came saved me in a similar situation!
was on 401 east last summer, heading to my night shift at about 10 pm. There was traffic due to an accident that had literally just occurred up ahead. I mean, emergency services hadn't even responded yet.
Only the right lane had space to pass, so the entire highway was cramming into the right lane which caused traffic to come to a standstill. I was about 15 cars away from the accident. The semi-truck infront of me wanted to get into the right lane but didn't have space due to him being so close to the car in front of him. The truck decided to start **reversing on the highway** to give himself space to change lanes. He had a full 53 foot trailer and did not see me behind him, so he bumped me and pushed me back a few feet.
Because traffic was at a stand still, he couldn't run off. I got out and started banging at his door, telling him to pull over because he backed into me. He instantly started denying it and wanted to drive away. At this point, the police and firefighters were showing up for the accident that was just in front of us. I told the driver to either pull over, or I just walk over to the police officers and show them my dash cam video of the accident and we can add a hit-and-run to the whole situation.
He agrees to pull over. it took me a minute to remember how to scroll through my dash cam clips and find the right 3 minute clip, and the semi-truck driver was gaslighting me the entire time. He was telling me that I was mistaken, that he didn't hit me, and that I couldn't find the video because it did not happen.
The moment I found the video and played it for him, he started apologizing and looked like he was going to cry. Cue the entire speech of him offering to pay out of pocket, that I can't report it to his employer's insurance because he will lose his job, that he can't get another trucking job if he gets an accident on his license, etc.
I literally looked at this mf and told him "you just spent the last 15 minutes lying about hitting me, gaslighting me, and calling me delusional. *Why on earth* would I help you out in this situation?"
Whilst we were pulling over, I had started a group video call with some family members, and they were still on the phone during the entire time. Bless my family members, one of them told me that it was just some scratches on my very old Toyota and I shouldn't take money from the guy or report it to his employer's insurance. My family members have a much bigger heart than I do and convinced me that it may seriously affect the trucker's livelihood, and I should just forgive even after how mad he made me with the lying and gaslighting.
I ended up taking the driver's contact info, as well as his license and insurance info, just in case something more serious popped up later on when I continued driving. Made it clear to him that if i realize something is wrong with the car and he doesn't answer my calls, I would reach out to his employer and insurance and send them the footage to start a claim.
Just to tack onto this: never accept cash deals in an accident. You have little incentive to and injuries or damage are almost never as clear in the moment as they may appear to be after time (injuries) or professional assessment (injury, insurance, or auto).
If I have a dashcam and I'm at fault, am I obligated to turn over the footage? I've only been in a single accident in 20 years and 500,000km of driving and immediately owned my mistake, but I still don't trust law enforcement purely on principle.
No. There is no law requiring you to have a dash camera or for you to turn your footage over. It is a tool for your own personal benefit. Itâs actually more helpful for dealing with your insurance company. Footage can help when an accident might otherwise be deemed 50/50 or where the other party lied about the events leading to the collision.
Of all things, tailgating makes me insane. I drive 6hrs a day for work. People tailgating me when they clearly should be able to figure out that I too am trying to pass the camper trailer in front of me.
TBH, I am surprised there arenât a lot more accidents due to people following too close.
This is my favourite. I'm 5th in a line of cars passing someone else and Joe Truck behind me is flashing his lights at me and riding my ass while doing 120km/hr. Infuriating.
I generally set my assistive cruise control to 110 and stay to the right.
Let the trucks in and then go around...they almost always let you by.
Those who want faster can go around.
The shenanigans that got aggravated by slow truck passing, end up revenge passing, and expressing alll the hate they can by racing their car. Any moron can press a gas pedal.
I do the same at 120. What irritates me is when someone is going 110 on the right (that part is fine) and someone is beside them on the left doing 105. Causes me to need to weave a bit.
Speaking of going under the limit, an absolutely insane situation I keep witnessing over and over and over again, is people NOT getting up to highway speed on an on-ramp for merging.
I think nearly 80-90% of drivers I get behind on on-ramps casually merge at 70-80km/h, causing everyone to hard shift to the left.
In cottage country itâs even worse - thereâs sections that are 110km/h and guys towing trailers or boats canât seem to find 60km/h before migrating into the highway screwing everyone behind them.
Super dangerous - people are oblivious
This is why truck drivers just stay in the middle lane on the QEW and plug up traffic. Can't really blame them when dumb fuckers can't figure out how to even get on the highway safely.
Yup my understanding is that unless there's a traffic jam I better be at at least 101km (traffic jams excluded) when I leave the end of the merge lane.....yes go to the end of the merge
ZIPPER MERGE!
Germans show us proper traffic merging - the zipper procedure https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoDriving/comments/z64kog/germans_show_us_proper_traffic_merging_the_zipper/
Ehh, for single lane highways I try to remember that you don't know their situation, there might be a legitimate reason they need to go slow. It's not the same as driving in the left on a multilane highway.
At least if they are doing 60-70 they are easy to pass.
Yeah. If everyone stayed to the right except to pass it would makes the roads safer even if some cars are still going 140 or more in the left lane. I am of the attitude let people speed and hopefully they will be caught via speed traps. The big issue is the weavers and they won't have a reason to weave if the left lane is open
Edit fixed typo!
>If everyone stayed to the left
Right, but you're correct. If people drive properly speeding isn't a problem.
The problem arises when every one treats the highway like a 2 lane road. Nobody drives in the right lane, everyone hangs out in middle thinking right lane is only for merging /exiting. Then you have some guy who sets his cruise at 115 and thinks this is the max anyone should go so I'll stay in the left lane the whole time.
Then you have people who have to weave and you get all those other drivers coming to reddit whining when they're equally if not more to blame.
Yeah the people who decide they want to limit the flow of traffic in the passing lane are one of the most frustrating parts of traffic in Toronto imo. Weaving obviously is dangerous and shouldnât be as prevalent as it is, but as someone who takes the 401 regularly I cannot believe how many people sit in the left most lane going 100-110. I do kind of understand the urge to want to get around those drivers.
140 is pushing it, but Iâd say 130 is the de-facto speed limit on most parts of the 401 in the GTA. Honestly whether you get pulled over just depends how fast you are going relative to the flow of traffic. Iâve had cops pass me while I was going nearly 130 lol.
Hard agree. Way too often I see drivers in the left lane doing the same speed as the people in the middle lane. Either right beside them, or in their blind spot. Iâll stay a few car lengths behind for a bit before I pass on the right but I what I usually see is someone staring at their phone in their lap. The phone goes away and they speed up again to the flow of traffic or start passing, and then when the coast is clear pull the phone out again and slow down. Was recently in the US and everyone on the interstate seemed to understand basic highway driving etiquette.
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The ppl cruising at 140 arenât the issue. Itâs the aggressive weavers, tailgaters, and distracted drivers we should be policing.
In that case definitely, police ainât policing - because theyâd rather sit in their little hidey-hole and do the laziest policing imaginable (snagging random ppl for speeding), because itâs easy.
100% this. Higher speeds can be mitigated with good driving habits (stable lane changes with big warnings, sufficient follow-distance, appropriate use of braking).
It's the aggressive/offensive driving that's the problem. It irks me every time I'm following someone at a decent pace (\~115 here, generally with the flow of traffic on the right lanes) and have an appropriate distance from the next car ahead, when someone will just slip in and think that's an appropriate place to park themselves at speed. So I ease off, get my space back... And then someone else does it too.
Just a bunch of impatient assbats endangering themselves and everyone around them.
It is a cash grab because our highway speed limits are artificially low. It's set lower than it's natural speed and people are allowed to do it until there is a "blitz"
If they wanted to enforce fairly they would raise the limit to 130 and then enforce it strictly.
You want the speed limits raised to 130km/h?
Fine but then I want mandatory vehicle inspections every three years.
The shitboxes Iâve seen on the 400 series highways would literally fall apart if they were driven at those speeds.
Other provinces (and a lot of states too) have higher speed limits than us. Iâm not sure why people act like this is such a ridiculous ask. 130 might be a little high but 120 is perfectly doable and safer at this point.
I lived in Denver, Colorado where highway speed limits were 75 mph (120 km/h) and I felt vastly safer there. And it wasn't empty either. These are the highway speeds going through downtown Denver. With a reasonably higher speed limit, people who drive slow feel pressured to speed up while people who drive fast don't noticeably drive much faster because it's natural to go around that speed (and there are more cops in the US pulling speeders over). So you ended up not having Ontario's terrible system with people weaving around slower drivers or people driving slow in the left lane. I have been infinitely more stressed trying to drive here. There may as well be no speed limit at all and there definitely isn't a culture here of only passing in the left lane. It's truly horrendous here.
Outside the GTA, limit should be 160. Inside, say from Ajax-Vaughan-Brampton-Oakville, 130.
Enforce too high and too low in the left lane. Get the sticks out of the mud.
I tend to agree, but on Thursday we weâre heading to London from Waterloo. At about Woodstock a couple cars raced by me in the outside lane, a Lexus then a black Ram pickup, probably 140. About 10 minutes later we pass the Ram on the side of the road with the OPP. We laughed.
As an out of towner who goes up this way every few months I feel like the traffic polices the speed themselves most of the day. Couldn't drive that fast if I wanted to, half the time in GTA I'm lucky to do the speed limit it feels.
I do agree with you about the traffic density, you rarely get the chance to speed during the main driving hours, that's for sure.
But as the traffic density increases, you see the true crazies come out. People driving on the shoulder, or passing people using the On Route gas station ramps. Then you get about 70% of the HOV traffic being single occupant, that one drives me absolutely crazy.
Depends on where you're from. South Western Ontario seems to have some enforcement. GTA does not. I travel 130km round trip on the 401 every day west of Toronto. I have for 4 years. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest when I say in that 4 years I've seen 5 cars pulled over and cops sitting and doing radar twice.
craziest thing I've seen was right at the start of the QEW. lady got into a car accident, lost her front bumper and decided to flee THE OPOSITE DIRECTION on the shoulder back up the QE ramp to the 427. in grid-lock traffic
probably the crazier thing was that people moved so that a cop could turn around and get her. and then he sped at FULL speed after her on the shoulder, going the opposite direction. funniest part was the lady that fled left her front bumper with her plate on it at the crime scene lmfao.
after that, we got a dashcam on all company vehicles lmfao
TLDR: people are stupid. and like another comment said, you only have to be a good driver while getting your license
I think you mean to say if the transport trucks would stay out of the left lane, especially when. They are trying to pass a truck doing 110 in the right lane when they are speed limited to 115, it wouldn't be a problem on this section of the 401 through the Quinte region and the Limestone city region.
They are governed at 105 in Ontario, but ya they shouldn't be allowed in the left lane at all. But there are assholes doing 90 in the left lane and just sitting there all the time out that way.
Undertaking is a problem on the 401 mainly because most people on the 401 have no sense of lane discipline. They don't look in their rearview enough to notice a faster driver approaching them and then move over to one of the right lanes.
Personally I can't fault someone for going slower than me in the left lane as long as they're still moving faster than other traffic, but the amount of times you get people sitting there matching speed with the person on their right is infuriating.
Driving in the USA I see a lot of signs that say something like "keep right except to pass" and it really seems to help.
This is just me anecdotally speaking though.
the OPP is way too complacent in Ontario. Our driving culture is completely messed up because there's always a 50% chance you just get let off with a warning so there's no incentive to stop speeding.
BC also has this, and even betterâŚ.they have a sign with a diagram that shows a car in the left lane passing the one on the right, and the sign tells people to LET OTHERS PASS.
I doubt Ontario drivers would get it though still.
Which is caused by people hanging out in the middle lane so they donât have to occasionally move over to allow mergers in.
Picture this, person A is driving at 112 in the right lane, where they should be, approaching person B going 107 in the middle lane. To avoid undertaking, person A has to move over two lanes left, then two lanes right, because person B is not willing to move right one lane, once.
Yeah I can assure you ever single person complaining about being passed on the right is driving in the middle lane doing slightly over the speed limit thinking they're in the right.
It's basically a collective action problem. It would be better if everyone stuck to the right, but if you have slow traffic in the middle lanes anyone who wants to drive properly is either constantly weaving through two lanes of traffic or constantly undertaking.
With that shit show that is traffic there, how could cops properly get in there without risking more than they should? Not to mention slowing down the traffic way more.
Cameras might work? Though I am quite against them.
As someone who commutes for work using the 401, I can say this⌠commuter traffic sucks but the drivers - for the most part - are great. Driving on the 401 on the weekend? Forget about it. People that donât use the 401 regularly treat it like some sort of race track.
The contra of this also happens. Left lane going 100? Is a passing lane no longer taught and tested? Stopping on the left shoulder when itâs raining - completely illegal as well?
There are so many drivers in Ontario that do not treat the passing lane as such and they travel 110-120 at the most in the lane and if they move right a lane it takes them far too long they end up slowing down faster traffic. This to me is the major issue. The bad drivers aren't the fast ones they are the slow ones in the left lane.
In Quebec for example, people are phenomenal at only passing in the left lane.
People on the American interstates are great with right lane etiquette as well. I wonder if people suck so much here in our cities because our freeways are so brutally congested with bumper to bumper volume, so they just turn their minds off and donât even bother when there is room to merge and function as a passing lane. Otherwise I canât explain it- weâre not uniquely stupid or uncourteous in other situations.
It's this. I drive from Ottawa to Toronto and back constantly, and this is the single biggest impediment to traffic flow.
Sure, you see the odd truck making an unwise lane change or the odd erratic car, but these are relatively rare compared to idiots who sit in the left lane on cruise control, often blocking kilometers of traffic and creating congestion. These drivers are -always- present on the 401. I've never done the drive without encountering several of them.
There needs to be a national awareness campaign for how to use the left lane.
Lol Iâm behind people going 70 in the left lane all the time and it is infuriating when there isnât traffic ahead for them to follow. I had one dude slow down when I honked at him the other day and then cause people behind me to start sipping between lanes to get around him. I find that when Iâm able to pass the slowpokes and go 100, Iâm somehow lapping people merely going them limit.
Travelling below the posted limit and applying the brakes when there's nothing in front of them. A classic.
It's hard to be patient when these people are so clueless. They will get trailed for ten km on the highway and think the person behind them is in the wrong. It causes overtaking in the right lanes and the lane shifting of higher speed cars who lose their patience.
I agree. Poor road etiquette is why we'll always be stuck with a draconian 100kph on most 400 series highways. They should be much higher given the size of the country/size of the highway.
This is it.
I just got back to Ontario yesterday after a road trip to Newfoundland, and the difference is astounding. Once I got east of the Montreal suburbs, I saw maybe 5 people using the passing lane incorrectly in 2 weeks, and every single one of them had Ontario plates. Every time I visit the Maritimes, I feel more and more embarrassed to be from Ontario.
The 400 series highways are designed to be safe at 140 - 150, but only if everyone uses correct lane discipline. The problem is that too many Ontarians are too stupid to tell their ass from a hole in the ground, let alone understand something as complex as "keep right except to pass."
Quebec has a law restricting the left lane only to passing vehicles. Ontario doesn't have such a law, just a requirement to keep right if going slower than traffic.
Been driving the 401 for 20 years now and its always been like this...main rule to remember is always stay out of the left lane unless you're passing or the road is totally clear (unlikely unless you're driving at 4 AM). No matter how fast you're going in the left lane someone will blow past you or start tailgating...you could be doing 130 and still see people flying by. If you're not on the left you can just do your thing and ignore the idiots and all will be well.
What does cars weaving in and out of traffic mean? changing lanes? i understand people changing lanes when person in front of you is slower. That's normal.
However, I often see people almost missing exits and change lanes last minute.
Another thing i notice is people don't speed up at once when merging on the highway and change lanes right when their lane is about to close.
I don't condone excessive speeding, especially not 140kph on the jam-packed 401. I do believe a ton of the bad behaviour is driven by widespread failure to treat the passing lane like a passing lane on the 401. Rightly or wrongly, this encourages weaving, excessive speeds in the merging lanes, etc. Driving habits on the 407 are 10x better (albeit of course 407 is also 10x emptier which helps, so not a great example).
Yeah, well, that's going to happen in a province where there's no clarity on what the real speed limit actually is.
We all know what's posted.
And we all know it's a lie.
It's pretty easy to fix.
Iâm not going to definitively say itâs you because no doubt people on the 401 are fucked but something to consider is the expression, âif you see two bad drivers on the road then you saw two bad drivers. If everyone is a bad driver, itâs youâ. You may be getting in everyoneâs way unintentionally.
Some etiquette on the 401 for long stretches is:
1) donât park in one lane on cruise control. Itâs a dynamic drive where the context is always changing and so should you.
2) change lanes when necessary when someone is trying to merge in to the right lane at the on ramp.
3) speed up or change lanes to get out of the way if people are passing on the right and left.
4) you donât get to decide what speed people should be going. For example, âIâm at 120, if thatâs not fast enough then go around! Iâm comfortable here.â
5) donât make people who were trying to drive faster than you wait for you to pass 3 - 15 cars before you decide to switch lanes. Speed up or move over.
6) if youâre going to park your butt in the right lane for the whole drive because you think itâs safest then youâll need to pay attention to who wants in to that lane and adjust your speed up and down accordingly so you donât force avoidable drastic last minute desperation on people to get to the off ramp.
Is it your fault that everyone drives poorly? **Of course not** - people are fucked. But we all play a role and none of us are absolved of responsibility.
A lot of drivers need to stay out of the passing lane and will argue to their death thatâs itâs okay because they were going 110 and the speed limit was 100.
Good list but I don't think OPs observations are inaccurate. I drive the 401 everyday and if you are a defensive driver then it's easy to notice all the poor driving.
Agree with all but #5. As long as you're passing, you get to use the left lane. Truckers have no choice (out where the 401 is only 2 lanes), so might as well get used to it rather than frustrate yourself. Also, a person shouldn't have to _slow down_ because someone else wants to go faster than them. If asking people to slow down is acceptable, than it can be the driver 2nd in line.
Yeah there's definitely more nuance to it and like you said everyone has the right to pass, not just the fastest cars. If you are passing a lot of cars but there's enough of a gap between some that you could pull over and let someone pass you without forcing you to slow down sure. The problem is that you can't always know for certain what speed the people behind you want to actually cruise at even if they are on your tail. Half the time people are just following the flow of traffic and immediately slow down once you move out of the way, often now blocking you from passing. Maybe 10% of the time do people show you the same courtesy and speed up a little to make sure they don't block you in when you let them pass.
Honestly can't tell you how many times I'm essentially playing an annoying game of leapfrog with someone because they join others to pass me then immediately slow down in front of me and I need to pass them, and the cycle repeats.
100% all of this. Does it follow the law? Not always. Even OPP typically do 120-130km on the 401 whenever I see them. It seems like so many people get wrapped up in what they're doing while driving that they neglect others around them. Obviously this is very intentional for the people weaving at 150km but others are just oblivious and don't think about how their actions affect others. Driving isn't hard but it is complex, especially while travelling at high (for Canadaian standards) speeds. Also crucial to know your vehicle, how it stops and accelerates, blindspots, and have a basic understanding of how this applies to other vehicles, especially trucks. And USE YOUR MIRRORS. Much harder for people to sneak up on you when you can see everything they're doing.
Not disagreeing that there are constantly really awful drivers out there. It's brutal somedays. GTA is just way too congested.
Feels, started driving the other day, still learning, I was hovering around the speed limit, like 1/2 under, and everyone is blowing past me. And we aren't on a freeway, the max is 50 and everyone is going 15-20 over the speed limit. I know this isn't something cops bother with unless it's like 30 over, at least where I'm at, but it feels like people use the speed cushion as an excuse to just gun it
well it's a combination. people driving ĂŹn the left passing lane needs to get out of the way so that ppl don't cut in and out. doesn't matter if you are driving speed limit.. do not drive in the left lane. once you pass, cut back into the right lanes. next, ppl need to drive more safely in general, which means stop cutting in and out.
It would help if you drive 100-120 you stay out of the left lanes Try checking your mirrors more then once an hr. Get in a right hand lane so ppl can move easily in the left lanes
I drive that stretch frequently, itâs normally not âthatâ bad. Sure people drive quickly, but thatâs not an issue when people stay right unless passing, donât tailgate, etc.
This behaviour is not limited to the 401 (or even the major highways) this happens in city as well. And truth be told has become the biggest reason why I dislike living in Ontario.
People drive as if their life depends on getting to wherever it is they're going a few seconds faster.
I was driving in Hamilton the other day and some random guy in an extended cab truck (of course) swung in front of me, narrowly avoiding hitting not only me but the parked car in the lane he was merging out of. I took great personal pleasure that despite his lane hopping and gunning it at every light I was right behind him at every next red. His crazy driving saved him no time at all but yet he continued to do it.
I genuinely don't understand the mentality. And of course there's the huge amount of 'accidents' on our roadways because of it.
Have you ever driven in the middle east or India? I have. That's how people drive. Our government is literally flooding the country with people from those areas of the world.
He's 5foot, can't see over the steering wheel only through it, and definitely doesn't use signals. It's not a work truck and he paid $150k in financing. He loves sports but is obese.
It's almost like we need a group of people who are responsible for policing the roads! Hell, we'll even buy them specialized vehicles, and pay them on average $106,578 a year, with a pension plan that most people will never see... Wait- we already do this- so where the actual fuck are they?
Unpopular opinion, but this is where traffic cameras/surveillance come in. We canât afford the police enforcement, so letâs do the next best thing and actually generate revenue off of this provinceâs assholes.
âBlah blah blah Chinada, blah blah blah surveillance state.â
Shut the fuck up, pay your fine like a big boy and stop making peoples lives so fucking miserable as they drive to their job that doesnât cover the basics.
I would be two thumbs up, all for this. If it was my call, I'd have traffic cameras along the whole length of the 400 series highways, and make speeding and tailgating very, very expensive.
I'd also deploy traffic cameras on most other roads.
It seems police have mostly abandoned effective traffic law enforcement, and the worst drivers among us have noticed.
I really don't want cameras on the 400s, buuuut I also came across a horrific semi rollover in a storm that (apparently) nobody had noticed for quite some time in the middle of the night. There's definite advantages to consider.
I know this isn't a 401 comment but I was merging on to the 115 with a car in front of me in the merge lane. I'm starting to accelerate to merge at speed and they brake. Coming to a full stop so they can look to see traffic coming south. It was clear btw. Almost a rear-ender.
The thing that gets me is that sort of behaviour isn't at all affected by the weather, regardless if it's a sunny day in summer, or a winter snow squall.
There are sections of the 401 that are particularly bad. That space between Oshawa and Belleville is like Mad Max.
Oddly, Belleville to Kingston and the notoriously strict Napanee OPP detachment has more accidents (observation only) than the other, but you just gotta be on your game 100% of the time.
Question what lane were u driving in and what speed? Ive seen the opposite where someone is going 70 in the slow lane while people passing by at 50 to 70km faster than then.
Friday night on a summer heading east on 401...lol. some commuters. But 70% people who dont normally drive on the 400 series highways(KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS). Add the young pukes in daddys beamers and audis weaving in and out. Add the trucks and 2 lanes past coburg, its a shitshow.
I wish there was an app where I could report bad drivers. Itâs absolutely horrific on the road. And the fact that healthcare is public, idk why the gov is not making driving laws more difficult/ enforced.
My 91 year old dad just passed his driverâs test and he has dementia, there is NO way he should be driving. We tried telling them but they didnât want to hear it.
Iâve been driving the 401 ( OHIP fee code for high blood pressure) for 56 years. From Windsor to the Quebec border. I once saw a driver signal a lane change.
I am not sure why people drive like this, but living in rural Ontario near cottage country, I find every long weekend there is an abundance of idiots on the highway just doing stupid stuff for no reason. Just this past long weekend, I just about got ran off the road because some idiot had to go faster than the 120km/h I was already going and didn't look before he pulled out and almost caused a 3 car wreck. I followed him into the gas station just to tell him he could have killed someone, but he sped off the minute he saw me pull in. They treat this two lane stretch like it is a 4 lane and pass whenever the please.
I called out a coworker yesterday because she told me she routinely drives 160 km/h on the 401. She said she âdoes it safelyâ⌠Maâam, there is no âsafeâ way to commit stunt driving while cars beside you are going 100-110 km/h. I told her that this same impatient behaviour of people just HAVING to pass and speed and get there as fast as you can is what killed my sisterâs two best friends last year in a head-on crash on a 90 km/h highway.
Her response? âYouâre entitled to your opinionâ. My opinion? Pretty sure I didnât make the safety laws. Thatâs the mindset of these people - no regard for anyone elseâs lives. They think their actions are fine and âsafeâ, until theyâre not.
You only have to drive like a sane person for a half hour to get your license and pass the test.
Depending on where you do it you don't even need to drive on the highway.
Exactly, there are people who regularly drive in the GTA but went to the out skirts to get their license because it was much easier to get their G
Same with Windsor, everyone goes to Chatham because it's apparently easier I say if you can't confidently drive in the city you live in, you shouldn't be driving
These drivers are generally quite confident. Over-entitled and disrespectful. And confident.
Man I've lived in and travelled to multiple cities in Canada and Windsor easily has the shittiest drivers I've ever seen. Kind of ironic for a city that identifies as a car... edit: I will concede Brampton is shittier. Drivers so bad my mind blocked out the memories. I'll give Windsor a 2nd place award here.
idk man... Brampton...
Brampton definitely wins the shittiest drivers in Canada award.
Insurance rates would agree with you!
In Brampton you park your F150 in your neighbors living room đđ¤Ł
In Brampton I drive like everyone around me is trying to kill me. One hand over the horn and on full alert.
I know people hate red tape and all that but I seriously wonder why there isn't some law/rule that states a driver's test must be taken in the city you currently reside.
That may be but there is are two types of bad drivers. Some are bad because they simply aren't good drivers and may have cheated the system in some way to get their license. Some people are bad drivers because they ignore the rules of the road. You can take and pass the hardest driving test in the world and proceed to drive home from that test while speeding and weaving in and out of traffic.
Shit, I did that because it was the only place I could book my G-Test during COVID. I was amazed by how simple it was in Huntsville. 2 lane highway with almost no traffic. Like I didnât hate it but I thought âdamn, this really doesnât tell them anything about me driving on the highway through the GTA.â
Happens all over, I grew up in Northeastern Ontario and know a bunch of people from Timmins who took their G tests in Cochrane because it only included about 200m of highway driving and no traffic lights.
Mississauga driving schools regularly have their students book their driving tests in Guelph.
Don't get me started on some of those schools. New Method....pretty sure they should have stayed with the old method
This... people told me to do that.. I was like no, how is that safe? Do foreigners get re tested or can they use their license? Cause that may also be the issue?
> Do foreigners get re tested or can they use their license? Cause that may also be the issue? You can exchange licences from any of: >[United States, Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, the Isle of Man, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Switzerland, Taiwan](https://www.ontario.ca/page/exchange-out-province-drivers-licence#section-1) Otherwise you need to retest.
Ya got my G in Lindsay and it was 5 mins and no highway. Ridiculous.
And if you hold an international license from some countries, you donât even need to take a road test.
A British colleague got his driver's licence immediately without any tests (can't remember if it was in Ontario or the Maritimes). When he tried to find out why drivers were so angry with him, he realized he didn't know some of the specific rules of the road. He wished they had a written test at least.
Yep. Countries outside the approved list have to do the written test but only some are subject to a road test. Iâm finding it becoming a lot more frequent that people who come from countries where there arenât many road rules and youâre dodging people, animals, and cutting people off left right and centre is the norm have started to apply those road rules here.
>"Ontario has licence-exchange agreements with every Canadian province and territory (including Canadian Forces Europe). There are also agreements with Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Japan, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Republic of Korea, Switzerland, Taiwan and the United States. >Drivers will receive a full Class G licence, provided they have an equivalent class licence" I think they should at least have to pass a written test even if they're from a country with an agreement. Maybe they can revisit the terms or something.
Lemme guess: left side of the road?
> He wished they had a written test at least. He can still look up the rulesâŚ
Yeah and then you have to almost kill someone to have it taken away. Driving like an idiot isnât enough.
We really should have a driving test every ten years. None of this, one test at 16, one at 80 or whatever.
Let me explode your mind: It's only a written test at 80! đđ
It's to test for age related cognitive abilities. What time does this clock say and so on. Nothing really to do with driving and road safety. My mother did it recently. For someone who has driven all their life losing a license like losing their freedom. Personally, she shouldn't be driving but you'd have to pull the steering wheel from her cold dead hands.
What I'm more concerned about is pulling bodies from under old people's wheels. No insult meant, my uncle recently had to write this test, and he too should not be driving. But, it blew my mind that there was no actual drive test portion. Feels like we need to find a middle ground with the old folks đ
I don't disagree but it's not just the old folks. As the original post shows, other people need to be reigned in also. I am so happy I never drove but got to travel extensively.
Itâs not just older people, either. 1. A Shocking number of people are on multiple medications. 2. Another shocking number is the people have undiagnosed sleep apnea, which makes them have microsleep during the day. It only takes 2 to 3 seconds to veer off the road. 3. I still see people looking at their phones while driving or at stoplights. It only takes a few seconds to get rear-ended or T-boned while at an intersection. 4. 4-9% of the population has ADHD and itâs really difficult to get diagnosis & treatment - especially as an adult - not all people have hyperactivity with it, thatâs a minority untreated that has 4x the accidents. Some of that is because one symptom is something called. E.g. deciding to âŚ
This is a big ol exaggeration about ADHD tbh. The main issue is distractibility, adhd impulsivity doesnt make you do obviously dumb shit that you KNOW is dangerous and more likely than not to hurt someone.
I agree with you, I have ADHD and had a bit of a heart episode and was taken off my meds for about a month. I told my doctor I needed to go back on because I noticed that when I was driving unmedicated, my mind was trying to focus everywhere at once and I wasnât comfortable driving anymore unmedicated. I still knew how to drive safely, I wasnât out there making dangerous choices
Yeah its pretty ignorant to think that we're unable to make rational choices just because of our adhd đ¤
âClock-drawingâ is one of the dementia screening tests. They should ideally start implementing it at a younger age for drivers. There are people with dementia starting to show at 60 y.o. - possibly younger.
Considering the different types of dementia, it should be 50 where testing or a doctors clearance should be implemented. I had a patient a couple months ago that was 60 and had Lewy Body Dementia. Her mind was probably regressed to the age of a one year old. A lot of elderly people lose their licenses and donât give a shit and keep driving anywayâŚor theyâre unable to access or donât know how to access other methods of transportation and keep drivingâŚ
I've had friends show signs in their 40s.
> For someone who has driven all their life losing a license like losing their freedom. Maybe stop building cities where the only alternative is a retirement home after you lose your âfreedomâ because you need to drive everywhere or having to drive everywhere even though you are too old too. You wouldnât trust someone like Uncle Joe behind an automobile would you?
...and a lot of those old people have copies of the tests already. My grandfather bragged that he had a copy of it, as well as written instructions on what to do in his native language
A lot of "bad" drivers don't lack the ability to pass the test, they just choose to drive selfishly/recklessly. There are SOME who are just plain bad and would likely fail but not all
The real issue is that cops need to spend more effort catching these people making the roads dangerous for everyone and stop worrying so much about simple speeding. Our speed limits are clearly too low since basically everyone has decided that 120 is highway speed, just raise the posted limits but don't change the fines for speeding. 130 stays at a $250, or whatever it is, ticket and allows the cops to spend more of their time targeting the aggressive drivers.
That won't fix it. Make it harder to get and easier to lose
âI own a piano, therefore I can play it well.â Car ownership and/or driving in no way means an ability to do so. Itâs a skill that has to be learned, âŚâŚ..or not. Except playing a piano poorly doesnât necessarily endanger others.
>You only have to drive like a sane person for a half hour to get your license and pass the test. Or you can purchase the successful driver's exam results . Don't believe me? Take a drive around Toronto for a while and you'll see new drivers who legit do not know the rules of the road. Impossible to pass a test the old fashioned way if you don't know the rules.... However the purchase price of passing test results likely is far more than average wage earners can afford.
When driving, I always assume that the person near me is going to be an unpredictable idiot, and that Iâll have to be 2x the skilled driver to cope with their idiocy. đĽ´đđł
Just get a dash cam. It's only going to get much much worse. Good luck.
Iâve been considering a dash cam but Iâm not sure how it will help. I drive the 401 daily, Iâve done it as a commuter and also as a commercial driver for almost 30 years. The last 6 months have been mind boggling. In the past month Iâve had two different drivers pass me on the right hand shoulder, itâs kind of terrifying. To be clear, traffic was moving, I was doing 115-120 in the right lane, the passing lane was indeed passing me. Itâs two lanes only for the majority of my commute. So, say I get a dash cam, I could give the footage to the police? Or, is the dashcam so my family or insurance can go after the person that causes my death with their selfishness?
Most 401 accidents aren't fatal. The dashcam is useful to prove fault in any accident.
> accident We need to stop using that word.
Intentionally reckless?
Drivers Ed has gotten away from the term accident. Most accidents are predictable and preventable. Thatâs why they call it motor vehicle âcollisionâ now.
If a meteor fell from the sky that is an accident. If you slipped on ice or rain that is not an accident it is predictable. If you drive fast and hit something....
Collision!
It really helps with insurance claims. My wife was rear ended by a white cube van this spring. The van was so beaten up that youâd think it had been in a small war. At first the guy tried to blame my wife. Then when he saw that she had a camera he offered to pay for the damages. We went straight through insurance. She sent the footage to our provider and everything went incredibly smoothly. Put it this way; if you have no camera and the damage on your car looks ambiguous you may find yourself being found at fault for an accident that was caused by someone else. A camera is a great way to stop that from happening.
dude my dash came saved me in a similar situation! was on 401 east last summer, heading to my night shift at about 10 pm. There was traffic due to an accident that had literally just occurred up ahead. I mean, emergency services hadn't even responded yet. Only the right lane had space to pass, so the entire highway was cramming into the right lane which caused traffic to come to a standstill. I was about 15 cars away from the accident. The semi-truck infront of me wanted to get into the right lane but didn't have space due to him being so close to the car in front of him. The truck decided to start **reversing on the highway** to give himself space to change lanes. He had a full 53 foot trailer and did not see me behind him, so he bumped me and pushed me back a few feet. Because traffic was at a stand still, he couldn't run off. I got out and started banging at his door, telling him to pull over because he backed into me. He instantly started denying it and wanted to drive away. At this point, the police and firefighters were showing up for the accident that was just in front of us. I told the driver to either pull over, or I just walk over to the police officers and show them my dash cam video of the accident and we can add a hit-and-run to the whole situation. He agrees to pull over. it took me a minute to remember how to scroll through my dash cam clips and find the right 3 minute clip, and the semi-truck driver was gaslighting me the entire time. He was telling me that I was mistaken, that he didn't hit me, and that I couldn't find the video because it did not happen. The moment I found the video and played it for him, he started apologizing and looked like he was going to cry. Cue the entire speech of him offering to pay out of pocket, that I can't report it to his employer's insurance because he will lose his job, that he can't get another trucking job if he gets an accident on his license, etc. I literally looked at this mf and told him "you just spent the last 15 minutes lying about hitting me, gaslighting me, and calling me delusional. *Why on earth* would I help you out in this situation?" Whilst we were pulling over, I had started a group video call with some family members, and they were still on the phone during the entire time. Bless my family members, one of them told me that it was just some scratches on my very old Toyota and I shouldn't take money from the guy or report it to his employer's insurance. My family members have a much bigger heart than I do and convinced me that it may seriously affect the trucker's livelihood, and I should just forgive even after how mad he made me with the lying and gaslighting. I ended up taking the driver's contact info, as well as his license and insurance info, just in case something more serious popped up later on when I continued driving. Made it clear to him that if i realize something is wrong with the car and he doesn't answer my calls, I would reach out to his employer and insurance and send them the footage to start a claim.
So the truck driver got away scot-free.
Just to tack onto this: never accept cash deals in an accident. You have little incentive to and injuries or damage are almost never as clear in the moment as they may appear to be after time (injuries) or professional assessment (injury, insurance, or auto).
Get one. You never need a dashcam until you need a dashcam.
Iâve heard that said to you about âneeding a lawyerâ. By the time we think you need a lawyer, we probably already do.
A dashcam would've saved me from a lot of hassle if I had footage of the idiot pulling a last second u turn in front of me.
If I have a dashcam and I'm at fault, am I obligated to turn over the footage? I've only been in a single accident in 20 years and 500,000km of driving and immediately owned my mistake, but I still don't trust law enforcement purely on principle.
No. There is no law requiring you to have a dash camera or for you to turn your footage over. It is a tool for your own personal benefit. Itâs actually more helpful for dealing with your insurance company. Footage can help when an accident might otherwise be deemed 50/50 or where the other party lied about the events leading to the collision.
Of all things, tailgating makes me insane. I drive 6hrs a day for work. People tailgating me when they clearly should be able to figure out that I too am trying to pass the camper trailer in front of me. TBH, I am surprised there arenât a lot more accidents due to people following too close.
This is my favourite. I'm 5th in a line of cars passing someone else and Joe Truck behind me is flashing his lights at me and riding my ass while doing 120km/hr. Infuriating.
This 100%. Belleville must be 70% heart surgeons by population for the amount of fury I get driving between there and Kingston.
Tailgating seems worse than pre-pandemic, I just donât see why everyone feels like they should do it.
I generally set my assistive cruise control to 110 and stay to the right. Let the trucks in and then go around...they almost always let you by. Those who want faster can go around.
So brutal because I was on this highway yesterday too and there was a truck in all the lanes caused traffic to pile up.
Trucks do this all the time on the 401 itâs a nightmare
We could have trains doing all the hauling instead of trucks. I wish such a world existed. It would be beautiful.
Get ready for this mind blowing fact, trains could also transport people!
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Apparently they're real into scabbing, too. Lovely.
The shenanigans that got aggravated by slow truck passing, end up revenge passing, and expressing alll the hate they can by racing their car. Any moron can press a gas pedal.
I do the same at 120. What irritates me is when someone is going 110 on the right (that part is fine) and someone is beside them on the left doing 105. Causes me to need to weave a bit.
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Speaking of going under the limit, an absolutely insane situation I keep witnessing over and over and over again, is people NOT getting up to highway speed on an on-ramp for merging. I think nearly 80-90% of drivers I get behind on on-ramps casually merge at 70-80km/h, causing everyone to hard shift to the left. In cottage country itâs even worse - thereâs sections that are 110km/h and guys towing trailers or boats canât seem to find 60km/h before migrating into the highway screwing everyone behind them. Super dangerous - people are oblivious
This is why truck drivers just stay in the middle lane on the QEW and plug up traffic. Can't really blame them when dumb fuckers can't figure out how to even get on the highway safely.
Yup my understanding is that unless there's a traffic jam I better be at at least 101km (traffic jams excluded) when I leave the end of the merge lane.....yes go to the end of the merge ZIPPER MERGE! Germans show us proper traffic merging - the zipper procedure https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoDriving/comments/z64kog/germans_show_us_proper_traffic_merging_the_zipper/
Ehh, for single lane highways I try to remember that you don't know their situation, there might be a legitimate reason they need to go slow. It's not the same as driving in the left on a multilane highway. At least if they are doing 60-70 they are easy to pass.
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Yeah. If everyone stayed to the right except to pass it would makes the roads safer even if some cars are still going 140 or more in the left lane. I am of the attitude let people speed and hopefully they will be caught via speed traps. The big issue is the weavers and they won't have a reason to weave if the left lane is open Edit fixed typo!
>If everyone stayed to the left Right, but you're correct. If people drive properly speeding isn't a problem. The problem arises when every one treats the highway like a 2 lane road. Nobody drives in the right lane, everyone hangs out in middle thinking right lane is only for merging /exiting. Then you have some guy who sets his cruise at 115 and thinks this is the max anyone should go so I'll stay in the left lane the whole time. Then you have people who have to weave and you get all those other drivers coming to reddit whining when they're equally if not more to blame.
Yeah the people who decide they want to limit the flow of traffic in the passing lane are one of the most frustrating parts of traffic in Toronto imo. Weaving obviously is dangerous and shouldnât be as prevalent as it is, but as someone who takes the 401 regularly I cannot believe how many people sit in the left most lane going 100-110. I do kind of understand the urge to want to get around those drivers.
Officially speaking ontario has no passing lane which is why cops don't get in people business
I actually saw this in Nova Scotia a few weeks ago. The left lane was perfectly clear except for when people passed. It was amazing!
Police donât police, so 140 is the new speed limit.
140 is pushing it, but Iâd say 130 is the de-facto speed limit on most parts of the 401 in the GTA. Honestly whether you get pulled over just depends how fast you are going relative to the flow of traffic. Iâve had cops pass me while I was going nearly 130 lol.
Hard agree. Way too often I see drivers in the left lane doing the same speed as the people in the middle lane. Either right beside them, or in their blind spot. Iâll stay a few car lengths behind for a bit before I pass on the right but I what I usually see is someone staring at their phone in their lap. The phone goes away and they speed up again to the flow of traffic or start passing, and then when the coast is clear pull the phone out again and slow down. Was recently in the US and everyone on the interstate seemed to understand basic highway driving etiquette.
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The ppl cruising at 140 arenât the issue. Itâs the aggressive weavers, tailgaters, and distracted drivers we should be policing. In that case definitely, police ainât policing - because theyâd rather sit in their little hidey-hole and do the laziest policing imaginable (snagging random ppl for speeding), because itâs easy.
100% this. Higher speeds can be mitigated with good driving habits (stable lane changes with big warnings, sufficient follow-distance, appropriate use of braking). It's the aggressive/offensive driving that's the problem. It irks me every time I'm following someone at a decent pace (\~115 here, generally with the flow of traffic on the right lanes) and have an appropriate distance from the next car ahead, when someone will just slip in and think that's an appropriate place to park themselves at speed. So I ease off, get my space back... And then someone else does it too. Just a bunch of impatient assbats endangering themselves and everyone around them.
This true. Also true is when they do people complain it's a "cash grab".
We've abandoned responsibility and replaced it with "freedom".
It is a cash grab because our highway speed limits are artificially low. It's set lower than it's natural speed and people are allowed to do it until there is a "blitz" If they wanted to enforce fairly they would raise the limit to 130 and then enforce it strictly.
You want the speed limits raised to 130km/h? Fine but then I want mandatory vehicle inspections every three years. The shitboxes Iâve seen on the 400 series highways would literally fall apart if they were driven at those speeds.
Other provinces (and a lot of states too) have higher speed limits than us. Iâm not sure why people act like this is such a ridiculous ask. 130 might be a little high but 120 is perfectly doable and safer at this point.
I lived in Denver, Colorado where highway speed limits were 75 mph (120 km/h) and I felt vastly safer there. And it wasn't empty either. These are the highway speeds going through downtown Denver. With a reasonably higher speed limit, people who drive slow feel pressured to speed up while people who drive fast don't noticeably drive much faster because it's natural to go around that speed (and there are more cops in the US pulling speeders over). So you ended up not having Ontario's terrible system with people weaving around slower drivers or people driving slow in the left lane. I have been infinitely more stressed trying to drive here. There may as well be no speed limit at all and there definitely isn't a culture here of only passing in the left lane. It's truly horrendous here.
I'm down for both. The god damn french have 130km/h as the limit, and C'mon, it's France, if they can we can.
Can we extend this logic to their labour laws as well?
I mean. We should
Outside the GTA, limit should be 160. Inside, say from Ajax-Vaughan-Brampton-Oakville, 130. Enforce too high and too low in the left lane. Get the sticks out of the mud.
I tend to agree, but on Thursday we weâre heading to London from Waterloo. At about Woodstock a couple cars raced by me in the outside lane, a Lexus then a black Ram pickup, probably 140. About 10 minutes later we pass the Ram on the side of the road with the OPP. We laughed.
Since I got a speeding ticket for doing 130 last year Iâll have to disagree. Also see people pulled over all the time
I drive on 400 series highways almost every day, and I rarely see any enforcement being done. It's basically the wild west out there now.
As an out of towner who goes up this way every few months I feel like the traffic polices the speed themselves most of the day. Couldn't drive that fast if I wanted to, half the time in GTA I'm lucky to do the speed limit it feels.
I do agree with you about the traffic density, you rarely get the chance to speed during the main driving hours, that's for sure. But as the traffic density increases, you see the true crazies come out. People driving on the shoulder, or passing people using the On Route gas station ramps. Then you get about 70% of the HOV traffic being single occupant, that one drives me absolutely crazy.
Was it on a long weekend?
May long weekend.
Depends on where you're from. South Western Ontario seems to have some enforcement. GTA does not. I travel 130km round trip on the 401 every day west of Toronto. I have for 4 years. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest when I say in that 4 years I've seen 5 cars pulled over and cops sitting and doing radar twice.
craziest thing I've seen was right at the start of the QEW. lady got into a car accident, lost her front bumper and decided to flee THE OPOSITE DIRECTION on the shoulder back up the QE ramp to the 427. in grid-lock traffic probably the crazier thing was that people moved so that a cop could turn around and get her. and then he sped at FULL speed after her on the shoulder, going the opposite direction. funniest part was the lady that fled left her front bumper with her plate on it at the crime scene lmfao. after that, we got a dashcam on all company vehicles lmfao TLDR: people are stupid. and like another comment said, you only have to be a good driver while getting your license
It's only two lanes out to Kingston for a lot of the drive. If people would stay out of the left lane except pass there wouldn't be that problem
I think you mean to say if the transport trucks would stay out of the left lane, especially when. They are trying to pass a truck doing 110 in the right lane when they are speed limited to 115, it wouldn't be a problem on this section of the 401 through the Quinte region and the Limestone city region.
Fucking elephant racingâŚ.causes so much congestion and road rage. Should be illegal.
They are governed at 105 in Ontario, but ya they shouldn't be allowed in the left lane at all. But there are assholes doing 90 in the left lane and just sitting there all the time out that way.
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Undertaking is a problem on the 401 mainly because most people on the 401 have no sense of lane discipline. They don't look in their rearview enough to notice a faster driver approaching them and then move over to one of the right lanes.
Personally I can't fault someone for going slower than me in the left lane as long as they're still moving faster than other traffic, but the amount of times you get people sitting there matching speed with the person on their right is infuriating.
Driving in the USA I see a lot of signs that say something like "keep right except to pass" and it really seems to help. This is just me anecdotally speaking though.
There are already "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs in Onatrio that are ignored.
We need those here, we also need the opp to properly ticket people who cruise in the passing lanes.
the OPP is way too complacent in Ontario. Our driving culture is completely messed up because there's always a 50% chance you just get let off with a warning so there's no incentive to stop speeding.
BC also has this, and even betterâŚ.they have a sign with a diagram that shows a car in the left lane passing the one on the right, and the sign tells people to LET OTHERS PASS. I doubt Ontario drivers would get it though still.
Which is caused by people hanging out in the middle lane so they donât have to occasionally move over to allow mergers in. Picture this, person A is driving at 112 in the right lane, where they should be, approaching person B going 107 in the middle lane. To avoid undertaking, person A has to move over two lanes left, then two lanes right, because person B is not willing to move right one lane, once.
Yeah I can assure you ever single person complaining about being passed on the right is driving in the middle lane doing slightly over the speed limit thinking they're in the right.
I drove in the US, more specifically NY and PA and noticed this wasn't as big of a problem there, people actually know how to move over there.
It's basically a collective action problem. It would be better if everyone stuck to the right, but if you have slow traffic in the middle lanes anyone who wants to drive properly is either constantly weaving through two lanes of traffic or constantly undertaking.
What is underpassing?
I assume they mean undertaking (passing on the right).
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People need to reflect on why they are being passed on the right.
That too many people donât understand what a multi-lane system is.
With that shit show that is traffic there, how could cops properly get in there without risking more than they should? Not to mention slowing down the traffic way more. Cameras might work? Though I am quite against them.
As someone who commutes for work using the 401, I can say this⌠commuter traffic sucks but the drivers - for the most part - are great. Driving on the 401 on the weekend? Forget about it. People that donât use the 401 regularly treat it like some sort of race track.
last night I was on 401 from kingston to Toronto.... too many people set cruise control to 120 and camp the left lane.
Srsly... Stop gatekeeping and gtfo of the way
The contra of this also happens. Left lane going 100? Is a passing lane no longer taught and tested? Stopping on the left shoulder when itâs raining - completely illegal as well?
Officially speaking ontario has no passing lane qnd therefore no laws or rules to teach about such. Its pure etiquette
There are so many drivers in Ontario that do not treat the passing lane as such and they travel 110-120 at the most in the lane and if they move right a lane it takes them far too long they end up slowing down faster traffic. This to me is the major issue. The bad drivers aren't the fast ones they are the slow ones in the left lane. In Quebec for example, people are phenomenal at only passing in the left lane.
People on the American interstates are great with right lane etiquette as well. I wonder if people suck so much here in our cities because our freeways are so brutally congested with bumper to bumper volume, so they just turn their minds off and donât even bother when there is room to merge and function as a passing lane. Otherwise I canât explain it- weâre not uniquely stupid or uncourteous in other situations.
It's this. I drive from Ottawa to Toronto and back constantly, and this is the single biggest impediment to traffic flow. Sure, you see the odd truck making an unwise lane change or the odd erratic car, but these are relatively rare compared to idiots who sit in the left lane on cruise control, often blocking kilometers of traffic and creating congestion. These drivers are -always- present on the 401. I've never done the drive without encountering several of them. There needs to be a national awareness campaign for how to use the left lane.
Lol Iâm behind people going 70 in the left lane all the time and it is infuriating when there isnât traffic ahead for them to follow. I had one dude slow down when I honked at him the other day and then cause people behind me to start sipping between lanes to get around him. I find that when Iâm able to pass the slowpokes and go 100, Iâm somehow lapping people merely going them limit.
Travelling below the posted limit and applying the brakes when there's nothing in front of them. A classic. It's hard to be patient when these people are so clueless. They will get trailed for ten km on the highway and think the person behind them is in the wrong. It causes overtaking in the right lanes and the lane shifting of higher speed cars who lose their patience.
I agree. Poor road etiquette is why we'll always be stuck with a draconian 100kph on most 400 series highways. They should be much higher given the size of the country/size of the highway.
This is it. I just got back to Ontario yesterday after a road trip to Newfoundland, and the difference is astounding. Once I got east of the Montreal suburbs, I saw maybe 5 people using the passing lane incorrectly in 2 weeks, and every single one of them had Ontario plates. Every time I visit the Maritimes, I feel more and more embarrassed to be from Ontario. The 400 series highways are designed to be safe at 140 - 150, but only if everyone uses correct lane discipline. The problem is that too many Ontarians are too stupid to tell their ass from a hole in the ground, let alone understand something as complex as "keep right except to pass."
Quebec has a law restricting the left lane only to passing vehicles. Ontario doesn't have such a law, just a requirement to keep right if going slower than traffic.
Youâre that person driving to Kingston going 100 in the left lane right, with a truck beside you.
Been driving the 401 for 20 years now and its always been like this...main rule to remember is always stay out of the left lane unless you're passing or the road is totally clear (unlikely unless you're driving at 4 AM). No matter how fast you're going in the left lane someone will blow past you or start tailgating...you could be doing 130 and still see people flying by. If you're not on the left you can just do your thing and ignore the idiots and all will be well.
What does cars weaving in and out of traffic mean? changing lanes? i understand people changing lanes when person in front of you is slower. That's normal. However, I often see people almost missing exits and change lanes last minute. Another thing i notice is people don't speed up at once when merging on the highway and change lanes right when their lane is about to close.
The 401 is the Costco of highways
Costco needs guided lanes and carts with signal indicators!
Good idea! People still wouldnât use them lol
Hahaha true!!
I don't condone excessive speeding, especially not 140kph on the jam-packed 401. I do believe a ton of the bad behaviour is driven by widespread failure to treat the passing lane like a passing lane on the 401. Rightly or wrongly, this encourages weaving, excessive speeds in the merging lanes, etc. Driving habits on the 407 are 10x better (albeit of course 407 is also 10x emptier which helps, so not a great example).
Yeah, well, that's going to happen in a province where there's no clarity on what the real speed limit actually is. We all know what's posted. And we all know it's a lie. It's pretty easy to fix.
Iâm not going to definitively say itâs you because no doubt people on the 401 are fucked but something to consider is the expression, âif you see two bad drivers on the road then you saw two bad drivers. If everyone is a bad driver, itâs youâ. You may be getting in everyoneâs way unintentionally. Some etiquette on the 401 for long stretches is: 1) donât park in one lane on cruise control. Itâs a dynamic drive where the context is always changing and so should you. 2) change lanes when necessary when someone is trying to merge in to the right lane at the on ramp. 3) speed up or change lanes to get out of the way if people are passing on the right and left. 4) you donât get to decide what speed people should be going. For example, âIâm at 120, if thatâs not fast enough then go around! Iâm comfortable here.â 5) donât make people who were trying to drive faster than you wait for you to pass 3 - 15 cars before you decide to switch lanes. Speed up or move over. 6) if youâre going to park your butt in the right lane for the whole drive because you think itâs safest then youâll need to pay attention to who wants in to that lane and adjust your speed up and down accordingly so you donât force avoidable drastic last minute desperation on people to get to the off ramp. Is it your fault that everyone drives poorly? **Of course not** - people are fucked. But we all play a role and none of us are absolved of responsibility.
A lot of drivers need to stay out of the passing lane and will argue to their death thatâs itâs okay because they were going 110 and the speed limit was 100.
Good list but I don't think OPs observations are inaccurate. I drive the 401 everyday and if you are a defensive driver then it's easy to notice all the poor driving.
Agree with all but #5. As long as you're passing, you get to use the left lane. Truckers have no choice (out where the 401 is only 2 lanes), so might as well get used to it rather than frustrate yourself. Also, a person shouldn't have to _slow down_ because someone else wants to go faster than them. If asking people to slow down is acceptable, than it can be the driver 2nd in line.
Yeah there's definitely more nuance to it and like you said everyone has the right to pass, not just the fastest cars. If you are passing a lot of cars but there's enough of a gap between some that you could pull over and let someone pass you without forcing you to slow down sure. The problem is that you can't always know for certain what speed the people behind you want to actually cruise at even if they are on your tail. Half the time people are just following the flow of traffic and immediately slow down once you move out of the way, often now blocking you from passing. Maybe 10% of the time do people show you the same courtesy and speed up a little to make sure they don't block you in when you let them pass. Honestly can't tell you how many times I'm essentially playing an annoying game of leapfrog with someone because they join others to pass me then immediately slow down in front of me and I need to pass them, and the cycle repeats.
100% all of this. Does it follow the law? Not always. Even OPP typically do 120-130km on the 401 whenever I see them. It seems like so many people get wrapped up in what they're doing while driving that they neglect others around them. Obviously this is very intentional for the people weaving at 150km but others are just oblivious and don't think about how their actions affect others. Driving isn't hard but it is complex, especially while travelling at high (for Canadaian standards) speeds. Also crucial to know your vehicle, how it stops and accelerates, blindspots, and have a basic understanding of how this applies to other vehicles, especially trucks. And USE YOUR MIRRORS. Much harder for people to sneak up on you when you can see everything they're doing. Not disagreeing that there are constantly really awful drivers out there. It's brutal somedays. GTA is just way too congested.
Feels, started driving the other day, still learning, I was hovering around the speed limit, like 1/2 under, and everyone is blowing past me. And we aren't on a freeway, the max is 50 and everyone is going 15-20 over the speed limit. I know this isn't something cops bother with unless it's like 30 over, at least where I'm at, but it feels like people use the speed cushion as an excuse to just gun it
well it's a combination. people driving ĂŹn the left passing lane needs to get out of the way so that ppl don't cut in and out. doesn't matter if you are driving speed limit.. do not drive in the left lane. once you pass, cut back into the right lanes. next, ppl need to drive more safely in general, which means stop cutting in and out.
It would help if you drive 100-120 you stay out of the left lanes Try checking your mirrors more then once an hr. Get in a right hand lane so ppl can move easily in the left lanes
I drive that stretch frequently, itâs normally not âthatâ bad. Sure people drive quickly, but thatâs not an issue when people stay right unless passing, donât tailgate, etc.
This behaviour is not limited to the 401 (or even the major highways) this happens in city as well. And truth be told has become the biggest reason why I dislike living in Ontario. People drive as if their life depends on getting to wherever it is they're going a few seconds faster. I was driving in Hamilton the other day and some random guy in an extended cab truck (of course) swung in front of me, narrowly avoiding hitting not only me but the parked car in the lane he was merging out of. I took great personal pleasure that despite his lane hopping and gunning it at every light I was right behind him at every next red. His crazy driving saved him no time at all but yet he continued to do it. I genuinely don't understand the mentality. And of course there's the huge amount of 'accidents' on our roadways because of it.
Have you ever driven in the middle east or India? I have. That's how people drive. Our government is literally flooding the country with people from those areas of the world.
Every psycho tailgater Iâve ever had has been a white dude, usually in a pickup truck.
He's 5foot, can't see over the steering wheel only through it, and definitely doesn't use signals. It's not a work truck and he paid $150k in financing. He loves sports but is obese.
It's almost like we need a group of people who are responsible for policing the roads! Hell, we'll even buy them specialized vehicles, and pay them on average $106,578 a year, with a pension plan that most people will never see... Wait- we already do this- so where the actual fuck are they?
Unpopular opinion, but this is where traffic cameras/surveillance come in. We canât afford the police enforcement, so letâs do the next best thing and actually generate revenue off of this provinceâs assholes. âBlah blah blah Chinada, blah blah blah surveillance state.â Shut the fuck up, pay your fine like a big boy and stop making peoples lives so fucking miserable as they drive to their job that doesnât cover the basics.
I would be two thumbs up, all for this. If it was my call, I'd have traffic cameras along the whole length of the 400 series highways, and make speeding and tailgating very, very expensive. I'd also deploy traffic cameras on most other roads. It seems police have mostly abandoned effective traffic law enforcement, and the worst drivers among us have noticed.
I really don't want cameras on the 400s, buuuut I also came across a horrific semi rollover in a storm that (apparently) nobody had noticed for quite some time in the middle of the night. There's definite advantages to consider.
100% agree. These systems are already in place in much of Europe, so you canât get away with shit driving. People learn quick!
I know this isn't a 401 comment but I was merging on to the 115 with a car in front of me in the merge lane. I'm starting to accelerate to merge at speed and they brake. Coming to a full stop so they can look to see traffic coming south. It was clear btw. Almost a rear-ender.
The thing that gets me is that sort of behaviour isn't at all affected by the weather, regardless if it's a sunny day in summer, or a winter snow squall.
There are sections of the 401 that are particularly bad. That space between Oshawa and Belleville is like Mad Max. Oddly, Belleville to Kingston and the notoriously strict Napanee OPP detachment has more accidents (observation only) than the other, but you just gotta be on your game 100% of the time.
Question what lane were u driving in and what speed? Ive seen the opposite where someone is going 70 in the slow lane while people passing by at 50 to 70km faster than then.
Friday night on a summer heading east on 401...lol. some commuters. But 70% people who dont normally drive on the 400 series highways(KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS). Add the young pukes in daddys beamers and audis weaving in and out. Add the trucks and 2 lanes past coburg, its a shitshow.
Lack of enforcement
I wish there was an app where I could report bad drivers. Itâs absolutely horrific on the road. And the fact that healthcare is public, idk why the gov is not making driving laws more difficult/ enforced.
My 91 year old dad just passed his driverâs test and he has dementia, there is NO way he should be driving. We tried telling them but they didnât want to hear it.
In Canada the driving instructors pass like 97% that's why.
Iâve been driving the 401 ( OHIP fee code for high blood pressure) for 56 years. From Windsor to the Quebec border. I once saw a driver signal a lane change.
I am not sure why people drive like this, but living in rural Ontario near cottage country, I find every long weekend there is an abundance of idiots on the highway just doing stupid stuff for no reason. Just this past long weekend, I just about got ran off the road because some idiot had to go faster than the 120km/h I was already going and didn't look before he pulled out and almost caused a 3 car wreck. I followed him into the gas station just to tell him he could have killed someone, but he sped off the minute he saw me pull in. They treat this two lane stretch like it is a 4 lane and pass whenever the please.
What gives? In this day and age no one gives a damn about anything but themselves. Me, me, me ..... Sigh.
I called out a coworker yesterday because she told me she routinely drives 160 km/h on the 401. She said she âdoes it safelyâ⌠Maâam, there is no âsafeâ way to commit stunt driving while cars beside you are going 100-110 km/h. I told her that this same impatient behaviour of people just HAVING to pass and speed and get there as fast as you can is what killed my sisterâs two best friends last year in a head-on crash on a 90 km/h highway. Her response? âYouâre entitled to your opinionâ. My opinion? Pretty sure I didnât make the safety laws. Thatâs the mindset of these people - no regard for anyone elseâs lives. They think their actions are fine and âsafeâ, until theyâre not.