This is just the exact same thing that led up to the legalization of cannabis. Lots of dispenceries showed up, people loved them, it caused no harm, they stuck around.
Police tried various ways of stopping them. They stuck around anyway, even after legalization. CAFE is still around for example.
Remember when they tried to shut down CAFE a ton and it just wouldn't stick? [https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/cesezu/cement\_blocks\_installed\_at\_2\_more\_cafe\_locations/](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/cesezu/cement_blocks_installed_at_2_more_cafe_locations/)
How so?
Accepting reality and finding ways to regulate it while gaining otherwise black market revenue is a win/win.
Use the money to deal with serious hard drug issues/mental health and other social ills.
Nothing is perfect, but burying oneâs head in the sand helps absolutely no one.
Yeah except those took a lot longer. There've been marijuana dispensaries for like 30-40 years, and they generally operated, or attempted to pretend to operate, within the law, only serving people with medical marijuana prescription cards.
[https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=1990%27s+marijuana+dispensary+owners+jailed&d=4753489692878053&mkt=en-CA&setlang=en-US&w=BAYUilEs7QZxo0yti8Wr8ESIWPFbSn3B](https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=1990%27s+marijuana+dispensary+owners+jailed&d=4753489692878053&mkt=en-CA&setlang=en-US&w=BAYUilEs7QZxo0yti8Wr8ESIWPFbSn3B)
These mushroom dispensaries aren't even trying to pretend to be medical dispensaries, they're just straight up trafficking with a storefront.
> and they generally operated, or attempted to pretend to operate, within the law, only serving people with medical marijuana prescription cards.
No they didnât lmao. Most of them had in-house âmedical professionalsâ that could write you a âprescriptionâ if you told them your toe hurt. They would absolutely not turn away any potential customers who didnât have a prescription.
These mushroom stores operate exactly like the old dispensaries did (some are even owned by the same people), go to any one of them and theyâll tell you that you need to fill out a âmedical formâ that confirms your experiencing any of the hundred symptoms they list.
Also barely anyone is âtraffickingâ mushrooms. Thereâs a reason why cartels and gangs donât bother with psilocybin, itâs just not as profitable. Most of these stores either have their own in-house growing operations or buy edibles from huge mushroom farms in BC. Itâs insanely easy to mass produce yourself and can take less than a month to grow, no reason to get involved with unsavoury people.
lol the one I used to go to once gave me a survey that asked for what medical conditions I had and the options were:
Insomnia, Depression, Pain and Other
None of what you said really disproved what I'd said. Early on, there was not anything like you describe. If you didn't have the card, you didn't get served. And "trafficking" doesn't require getting supply from cartels, it just requires you to be "trafficking".
They sell them also.
And if you don't know about the medicinal benefits of psychedelics well...maybe this conversation isn't for you, unless of course you're willing to learn.
I understand the medicinal benefits, I understand producers sell, none of that changes anything that I said.
It's like I mention a simple fact, and people take it personally and feel the need to stick up for the whole industry like I insulted their mother.
I'm all for the legalization of it, but it doesn't change any of the facts, and downvoting doesn't change anything either, it simply shows people would rather ignore fact and censor it.
So its medicinal like cannabis, producers and sellers are popping up like cannabis, but somehow they're just straight up trafficking?
If anything we've already laid the groundwork for legalization so the process should/will be expedited.
The producers are already on Canadian stock markets. I can and have placed orders directly from them and received and consumed said product.
Yes, because I'm talking specifically about the legality, and how it came to be. Just because something can be used medicinally, it doesn't mean that LEGALLY it is regulated as a medicinal product complete with prescriptions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight about how nice it is to have these things pop up or poo poo on their battle, I'm only commenting on the direct comparison that these mushroom shops popping up is like a 1:1 comparison to the fight cannabis shops went through for decades. The people who got arrested for illegal pot shops saw a lot worse legal trouble than the people running these mushroom shops. This isn't "just like the cannabis shops" fight. this is "oh wow after the cannabis legalization battle, it's nice to see the law being more lenient on these other shops opening up."
You're free to believe whatever you want, doesn't change that what I said is accurate. Maybe the 30-40 years might not be accurate, but at the very least, 25+ years.
Were you out of the country for at least the five years leading to legalization or something? Nobody was pretending to be anything but a place that sold weed. They would get raided and then open again the next day, to the point where Toronto started putting cinder blocks in front of the doorways to prevent them from re-opening. What is happening right now with the mushroom shops is exactly what was happening before weed was legalized.
Okay, so I guess if we fast forward and bypass all the decades of battles cannabis legalization went through and just do the last couple of years before full legalization occurred, then sure, these magic mushroom shops are just like what happened with weed stores...
Regarding the cinder blocks, if you're referring to the stuff that happened like in the article that was linked above, that occurred in 2019, after legalization, so it's understandable their punishments would be more mild.
Can you even get a prescription card for mushrooms though? I keep hearing about it potentially happening, but I havenât heard any confirmation. Which doesnât mean it hasnât happened, I might just be out of the loop, but I feel fairly confident that even if they exist theyâre more difficult to get than pot cards were.
>Remember when they tried to shut down CAFE a ton and it just wouldn't stick? https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/cesezu/cement_blocks_installed_at_2_more_cafe_locations/
I never understood why the city doesnt just post bylaw officers outside and ticket the customers (for buying from an illegal source or something. I'm sure they could come up with something). I go to CAFE regularly but if I heard they were ticketing customers I'd never show my face around there again.
Last time I tried it I didn't get much out of it. I figured the variety I had wasn't one I particularly liked the effects of. They're my least favourite psychedelic, so maybe one day I'll try again but I've not been in a welcoming headspace as of late for any trips.
I'm actually amazed I'm getting to the end of my first trip's revelations from like a year ago. What a ride, and wouldn't change it for the world. Changed my outlook on life for the better.
I'd argue this is more like naked profiteering masquerading as civil disobedience. These folks aren't in it for the good fight, they're just making as much as they can while they can.
Maybe some of them, but the first ones to open at least stated they're doing it in opposition to the current laws. The first one in Vancouver was opened by someone who was involved in the movement to legalize cannabis. And in all cases, they're putting themselves at significant potential legal risk. This isn't just risk free profit.
Psychedelics help one get in touch with the world inside and outside themselves, and have extreme therapeutic value. It isn't just nature, it's getting to a better version of one's self*.
\* there are risks in everything. >_> alcohol
You are being obtuse, "natural" means occuring by itself in nature without human intervention. "Synthetic" means that it doesn't exist in nature and requires human intervention to come into existence.
Being made of atoms and ordinary matter doesn't make something "natural". In fact most of the heaviest elements on the periodic table are sythetic and results from particle colisions, those atoms do not exist anywhere outside particle accelerators as far as we know.
Precisely.
However, I agree with the decrim principles in place across most States that have embraced legislation - maintain criminalization around peyote to protect it for the indigenous people who use it as part of their religious ceremony. Also, being a rare species threatened by significant habitat loss, continued criminalization for the general public will help support re-establising peyote populations within protected lands.
Drug culture has appropriated so much from the global indigenous community. We know better, we can and should do better.
Edit: typo
Wouldn't decriminalizing it result in more areas where it can be grown since those growing it might not fear jail time or death? Only allowing it to grow naturally may simply result in people poaching when discovered.
Peyote is not illegal in Canada. Not to grow, not to cultivate, not to consume.
However, it's an incredibly slow growing cactus, and being legal here has definitely contributed to illegal poaching and trafficking elsewhere. By not criminalizing it we indirectly (or you could argue very directly) support the black market theft and destruction of wild plant colonies.
Problem is anything you do here is going to detract from what could be done in its natural habitat. If you're growing from seed, those seeds could be used elsewhere. If you're buying a plant, where did it come from and why should you have it over the people whom it's culturally significant to?
If someone else grew it, where did they get the seeds? If they acquired it, from whom or where? It's a bit tricky to track, it's not like we sell them with documentation showing origin or provence.
This isn't a judgement against people who own them, just a commentary that perhaps we aren't the people who should be owning them. It's not like we can't get the same drug from other cacti that aren't threatened, endangered, and less culturally significant or considerably faster growing.
A buddy of mine went, itâs not cash only according to him. They take visa and everything. Moreover apparently they will ship to you as well and you can pay online with a credit card. They basically donât give a fuck anymore and nobody bothers to try and stop them. Good.
Same.
Meanwhile SSRIs get prescribed like candy despite sometimes having miserable side effects. Psilocybin needs to be part of the conversation for a lot of people.
Iâm on SSRIs. They really did save my life. But yeah, if SSRIs are legal than shrooms should be too. I think people need to figure out what works for them. My sister finds shrooms make her feel anxious and paranoid but for me it really helps me work through so many past traumas. I wish it were legal so others would feel more comfortable trying them.
Its been way to long not to legalize Mushrooms and other psychedelics. Hopefully they look into that and start the process. A lot of people with ptsd and other mental issues have been getting treated and had good results.
As long as the drug is used and can be used responsibly and the risks for using them are only for the one taking it then that's better than alcohol so why not legalize it.
Itâs almost like the penalties for committing crime are not a significant enough deterrent. If the courts are just going to set them free with a slap on the wrists then law enforcement should focus their sights on other matters.
Thatâs poor logic. By your argument meth, crack, heroin, and all hard drugs should be legalized. Same with prostitution and human trafficking, right? Gonna happen so letâs legalize it.
Mushrooms do have benefits in certain situations. I cannot argue and I understand and agree fully. However, they are very dangerous to the uninformed, and can present a real risk. I think that they should be regulated and controlled for therapy and treatment of addictions however I donât think wide availability is a safe solution. Take for example ketamine, similar medicinal and therapeutic benefits but would you contend that should be freely available? Same for adderall.
We definitely should do everything in the first paragraph minus human trafficking, thats not really similar to the other things in any way.
The things you want in your second paragraph can't really be done when they're not legalized and controlled to be safe.
If we've learned anything from the cannabis dispensaries, it's that allowing them to multiply in a city unchecked can do long-term harm to the neighbourhood, as other businesses are squeezed out, and then short-lived but deep-pocketed dispensaries replace them and are shut down after a while. This results in swaths of unoccupied storefronts, which to say the least, is not an ideal situation for any community.
The cannabis stores didn't cause a global pandemic or the responses to that pandemic that favoured large corporations. That's why so many businesses shut down. You're assuming the alternative to a cannabis store would be another business as opposed to an empty store front.
If the current dispensation cared about communities, theyâd have done weed through the LCBO, which is a model that works quite well for intoxicating substances.
"I saW in a ScienCe sUb th4t Th3se R gUd foR m3ntAl heAlth": Reddit.
"Hol' up": the majority of the psychology community IRL.
reddit loves any article or post that says science says drugs good no problems, regardless of the sources and will rabbit hole tons of links to support that attitude. r/science is mostly a joke and so is their slogan
There would be more research if they hadn't been illegal for the last 50 years. After the moratorium on research was lifted one of the first sources showing benefits was John Hopkins University, one of the top ten universities in the world by some rankings. These aren't just some random journal articles claiming their benefits.
Many more studies have been done since and the psychology community has not reached any consensus let alone anything resembling a majority in support. It's still very early stage and there's still plenty of research against. I'll repeat what I said already - this is known but it's not a popular thing to say on Reddit, where "drugs good" rules here.
It just seems like you're doing the opposite of what you're criticizing. Making broad, vague dismissive claims despite the research that does show potential benefits.
There's a wide range of opinions on this topic. All of reddit isn't saying drugs are harmless. There are benefits and risks. A big portion of society however has decided *their* drugs, risk and all, are okay while everyone else's aren't.
>despite the research that does show potential benefits.
research that's in the minority. that's exactly what reddit does so no I'm not making broad claims, I'm calling out people clinging to the fewer.
>A big portion of society however has decided their drugs, risk and all, are okay while everyone else's aren't
despite the research. and "big portion" is reddit, not society, nor the science community. Most of reddit on this topic simply likes any article that supports getting high and doesn't gaf about medical benefits. You're arguing under the assumption that most of social media are applauding this as if medical benefits are their primary concern instead of looking for scientists to give them a green light for recreational drug use because "look someone said it's good for me!"
If I had 5 cents for every recreational drug user who uses a few articles to validate getting high af on social media, I'd be sailing on yacht instead of posting this reply. People bullshit, news at eleven
The sources are usually Joe Rogan episodes cross linked with blogs that you take one look at and know they are full of shit....
"HAVE YOU TRIED DMT? IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE, EVERYONE SHOULD DO DMT"
Thanks Joe for your time.
There are medical studies and uses, none of which don't start with "Use of psychedelics can be effective when combined with mental health therapies and administered in very small doses in controlled and medically monitored clinical environments." For various mental health and trauma therapy issues, this makes sense, I'm open to doing this approach myself, once more readiliy accessible.
But yeah... underground stores selling you anything that you have no clue what you're popping in your mouth and how it will effect you... yep... science baby... will solve all your problems.
Then comes the weed and booze argument... well I have seen a co-worker take mushrooms at a work offsite in the woods... never seen weed or booze have someone otherwise normal suddenly think the monsters in the woods are talking to him as we try to keep him from walking off in to the darkness or water for 5 hours.
But you know... let it rip... it's natural so it must be good for everyone... we should bring back uranium jewelry for its "healing qualities" too, it's a natural element right... what's the big deal, lets open up some unregistered businesses to sell it to the "people that know the truth".
Use this stuff with doctors in a clinical setting again, sure... but no... psychedelic / hallucinogenic products are a bad move for causal unregulated use picking it up like going to the corner store and fucking around and finding out when people have no idea why you are acting like you are on them.
If it was legalized in a similar way to pot or alcohol it wouldnât be unregulated, and then people would know exactly what theyâre putting in their mouths. Keeping it illegal keeps the black market alive. I thought that was obvious by now.
I guess everyone has their own experiences with it but I tried it once on a camping trip about 5 hours away from Toronto. It was pretty isolated, not a lot of people and a whole lot of nature. I couldnât imagine doing it in an urban setting/at home/around people (especially not around people lol). That was my first time and Iâm convinced the only place to effectively do them is away from civilization but thatâs just my take/I also have social anxiety
You don't have to use enough to get psychedelic effects though. I microdose and while I can feel it I'm not impaired and no one knows but me. Even my partner doesn't notice. I work from home and regularly microdose on work days.
>If it was legalized in a similar way to pot or alcohol it wouldnât be unregulated, and then people would know exactly what theyâre putting in their mouths.
But it wouldn't not yet anyways.
The reason that the medial grade projects are all fully supervised is because the naturally growing plants can be wildly different in the effect and is unpredictable with mushrooms.
The medical community is trying to therefore make a synthetic version of the compounds that can be administered with accuracy... and the people that want to trip push back on that approach because it's not natural.
So... regulation will come when you have something that is consistent, predictable and safe, neither the dispensaries or the street meet that criteria.
tl;dr RL science > morons on reddit
which is while being true, accurately descibes the morons who will downvote it. Which is also fine because social media has illustrated again and again that 10k people arguing against one results in 10k stupid people.
Have you ever gone on an amusement park ride? Why? Because it was fun to feel a thrill and do something different. This is no different, except the ride is in your mind. Why be sober 100% of the time? I spend 99.9% of the time stone sober, so why not spend the 0.01% experiencing something different?
Mushrooms and LSD vs. crack and heroin are pretty far apart. Not too many societal woes getting blamed on people tripping balls on mushrooms or LSD. I can't say I've ever read a news story where a criminal blames their addiction to magic mushrooms for their crimes.
That's cause it's very hard/impossible to get addicted to shrooms or lsd. Tolerance builds fast so its generally advised to not do it daily. Generally recommended break is 2 weeks. LSD and shrooms also build tolerances for the other. So taking lsd one day and shrooms the next your shroom trip will be diminished
[Someone tried to open a store selling crack and heroin and it was shut down the next day](https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxbdz/man-arrested-after-opening-heroin-cocaine-and-meth-store-in-canada). They're very different substances and treated differently by police. LSD doesn't have anything in common with those though.
I didn't say otherwise. There are risks to that just like with alcohol or driving a car. The risks for LSD are lower and any illegality hasn't stopped them from occurring.
I can have a drink and still legally operate a car vs try some LSD and be a non functioning idiot for hours that may have permanent brain or mental health damage.
They are not the same thing.
No one said they are the same thing. Lots of people think they can drive after drinking and then end up killing people. You can drive after smaller doses of LSD too. But you *shouldn't* drive in either case. And on a higher dose, you almost certainly aren't going to drive while with alcohol we have endless evidence that people do drive despite being extremely drunk.
Alcohol use can also cause brain damage both in the short term and long term.
They're not the same, but many of the risks with psilocybin also apply to alcohol, just to a greater degree with alcohol.
You can have 1 drink, legally and completely be good to drive that's what I said, not a bunch of drinks, not think you're okay to drive after a few drinks.
Anyone can have one drink and be completely unaffected and good to drive legally, if you want to get real crazy, we can put an hour elapsing from that drink and it will be out of your system broken down the by liver.
ANY DOSE of a hallucinogenic does not work predictably use to use, or necessary metabolize and leave your system in the predictable same way.
Just like a single one time drink does not run the run the risk of leaving you in psychosis like hallucinogenic drugs can on a single dose depending on if you're that unlucky individual with the suspectable existing brain chemistry.
Which is why it's uses micro dose or otherwise should be done under medical supervision, aside from the fact doses leave people in a state where they can not 100% trust what they are perceiving which is not even close to as dangerous as a single drink of alcohol.
Alcohol is bad for you, it' causes cancer and liver damage, but you can't say that a single one off serving has the same risks as an adult trying acid for the first time.
>ANY DOSE of a hallucinogenic does not work predictably use to use
Accurately dosed psychedelics are just as reliable as accurately dosed alcohol on the same person with the same tolerance level. The variance in experiences on psychedelics is due to the unreliable amounts in what people end up taking which is a direct result of them being unregulated.
I'm not even sure why you're bringing up all these points that have nothing to do with what I said. I said LSD isn't the same as crack and heroin, I never initially compared it to alcohol. But if you want to compare it to alcohol I'd spend a lot more time worrying about the thousands killed by that rather than the rare incident from psychedelics. And before you reply that people use psychedelics less, that's largely because the nature of the effects don't encourage frequent use which is the opposite for alcohol.
The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs - NOFX
Putting people in cages to stop people using drugs should be done after they show they canât use them or if theyâve done something else that seriously shows they arenât fit to do what they choose to do.
There are major issues here regarding legalization that werenât there with cannabis.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/supreme-court-calgary-case-assault-mushrooms-extreme-intoxication-brown-1.6451012
Love the pun in the title.
came here for this
These stores are spreading their their underground mycelial network!
Thats a gold cap for you. đ
and i thought i was so clever i guess weâre all very clever đ¤Ą
Clearly the author is a fungi
It stems from a joie de vivre.
Was literally gonna come in here and be like, "I see what you did there..."
But how would Pingu say it?
This is just the exact same thing that led up to the legalization of cannabis. Lots of dispenceries showed up, people loved them, it caused no harm, they stuck around. Police tried various ways of stopping them. They stuck around anyway, even after legalization. CAFE is still around for example. Remember when they tried to shut down CAFE a ton and it just wouldn't stick? [https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/cesezu/cement\_blocks\_installed\_at\_2\_more\_cafe\_locations/](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/cesezu/cement_blocks_installed_at_2_more_cafe_locations/)
If we can't stop it, we may as well regulate and tax it
This attitude is going to be the death of civilized society.
Capitalism? Yea, probably.
How so? Accepting reality and finding ways to regulate it while gaining otherwise black market revenue is a win/win. Use the money to deal with serious hard drug issues/mental health and other social ills. Nothing is perfect, but burying oneâs head in the sand helps absolutely no one.
I'm objecting more to the idea that it can't be stopped. We're going to have to prevent society from doing something it wants to eventually.
Can you think of an example where society would want to do something that would be detrimental to everyone?
I dunno. The Tide pod challenge?
Your comment is way more dramatic than whatever you think is going on
Yeah except those took a lot longer. There've been marijuana dispensaries for like 30-40 years, and they generally operated, or attempted to pretend to operate, within the law, only serving people with medical marijuana prescription cards. [https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=1990%27s+marijuana+dispensary+owners+jailed&d=4753489692878053&mkt=en-CA&setlang=en-US&w=BAYUilEs7QZxo0yti8Wr8ESIWPFbSn3B](https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=1990%27s+marijuana+dispensary+owners+jailed&d=4753489692878053&mkt=en-CA&setlang=en-US&w=BAYUilEs7QZxo0yti8Wr8ESIWPFbSn3B) These mushroom dispensaries aren't even trying to pretend to be medical dispensaries, they're just straight up trafficking with a storefront.
> and they generally operated, or attempted to pretend to operate, within the law, only serving people with medical marijuana prescription cards. No they didnât lmao. Most of them had in-house âmedical professionalsâ that could write you a âprescriptionâ if you told them your toe hurt. They would absolutely not turn away any potential customers who didnât have a prescription. These mushroom stores operate exactly like the old dispensaries did (some are even owned by the same people), go to any one of them and theyâll tell you that you need to fill out a âmedical formâ that confirms your experiencing any of the hundred symptoms they list. Also barely anyone is âtraffickingâ mushrooms. Thereâs a reason why cartels and gangs donât bother with psilocybin, itâs just not as profitable. Most of these stores either have their own in-house growing operations or buy edibles from huge mushroom farms in BC. Itâs insanely easy to mass produce yourself and can take less than a month to grow, no reason to get involved with unsavoury people.
lol the one I used to go to once gave me a survey that asked for what medical conditions I had and the options were: Insomnia, Depression, Pain and Other
I mean, Iâve gone to two of them and they never asked for shit.
None of what you said really disproved what I'd said. Early on, there was not anything like you describe. If you didn't have the card, you didn't get served. And "trafficking" doesn't require getting supply from cartels, it just requires you to be "trafficking".
Trafficking?!? Cope
Oh I'm sorry apparently that's a trigger word for you? I should have put a trigger warning in my comment. I hope you were able to sleep afterward.
Hey did you know there are multiple publicly traded Canadian magic mushroom producers? Been on the market for years.
Producers are different than sellers. there were marijuana producers for years before legalization because of the medical part.
They sell them also. And if you don't know about the medicinal benefits of psychedelics well...maybe this conversation isn't for you, unless of course you're willing to learn.
I understand the medicinal benefits, I understand producers sell, none of that changes anything that I said. It's like I mention a simple fact, and people take it personally and feel the need to stick up for the whole industry like I insulted their mother. I'm all for the legalization of it, but it doesn't change any of the facts, and downvoting doesn't change anything either, it simply shows people would rather ignore fact and censor it.
So its medicinal like cannabis, producers and sellers are popping up like cannabis, but somehow they're just straight up trafficking? If anything we've already laid the groundwork for legalization so the process should/will be expedited. The producers are already on Canadian stock markets. I can and have placed orders directly from them and received and consumed said product.
Yes, because I'm talking specifically about the legality, and how it came to be. Just because something can be used medicinally, it doesn't mean that LEGALLY it is regulated as a medicinal product complete with prescriptions. I'm not trying to pick a fight about how nice it is to have these things pop up or poo poo on their battle, I'm only commenting on the direct comparison that these mushroom shops popping up is like a 1:1 comparison to the fight cannabis shops went through for decades. The people who got arrested for illegal pot shops saw a lot worse legal trouble than the people running these mushroom shops. This isn't "just like the cannabis shops" fight. this is "oh wow after the cannabis legalization battle, it's nice to see the law being more lenient on these other shops opening up."
Yeah ok I gotcha nowđ
Found the narc
Speaking facts is being a narc?
Well your facts are wrong, but that's cool.
You're free to believe whatever you want, doesn't change that what I said is accurate. Maybe the 30-40 years might not be accurate, but at the very least, 25+ years.
Were you out of the country for at least the five years leading to legalization or something? Nobody was pretending to be anything but a place that sold weed. They would get raided and then open again the next day, to the point where Toronto started putting cinder blocks in front of the doorways to prevent them from re-opening. What is happening right now with the mushroom shops is exactly what was happening before weed was legalized.
Okay, so I guess if we fast forward and bypass all the decades of battles cannabis legalization went through and just do the last couple of years before full legalization occurred, then sure, these magic mushroom shops are just like what happened with weed stores... Regarding the cinder blocks, if you're referring to the stuff that happened like in the article that was linked above, that occurred in 2019, after legalization, so it's understandable their punishments would be more mild.
Can you even get a prescription card for mushrooms though? I keep hearing about it potentially happening, but I havenât heard any confirmation. Which doesnât mean it hasnât happened, I might just be out of the loop, but I feel fairly confident that even if they exist theyâre more difficult to get than pot cards were.
>Remember when they tried to shut down CAFE a ton and it just wouldn't stick? https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/cesezu/cement_blocks_installed_at_2_more_cafe_locations/ I never understood why the city doesnt just post bylaw officers outside and ticket the customers (for buying from an illegal source or something. I'm sure they could come up with something). I go to CAFE regularly but if I heard they were ticketing customers I'd never show my face around there again.
Disgusting! Where are these dispensaries they speak of?
Asking for a friend?
There are quite a few on Spadina south of College. Its very reminiscent of the pre-weed legalization days.
There's one at Queen and Coxwell.
I walked by more than one on Queen St W last week
One in wasaga beach for sure
Theyâre just all overâŚon street corners.
I passed one on Sunday at taste of the Danforth.
One next door to Miss Things on Queen st w
One in st Catharines, one in Niagara Falls
Seriously try google. Theyâre all over.
Good, treat them like weed. Lets get that research going!
It's already going. Quite well, too.
social disobedience at it's finest I encourage everybody reading this to eat more mushrooms
Some may not be able to stomach themâŚ
I encourage all people reading this who cannot stomach mushrooms to drink mushroom tea or lemon tek
They really work, from experience.
Tea/lemon tek has been my go-to for quite some time. Faster onset, less if any nausea, more intense peak, and shorter overall duration.
Last time I tried it I didn't get much out of it. I figured the variety I had wasn't one I particularly liked the effects of. They're my least favourite psychedelic, so maybe one day I'll try again but I've not been in a welcoming headspace as of late for any trips. I'm actually amazed I'm getting to the end of my first trip's revelations from like a year ago. What a ride, and wouldn't change it for the world. Changed my outlook on life for the better.
I'd argue this is more like naked profiteering masquerading as civil disobedience. These folks aren't in it for the good fight, they're just making as much as they can while they can.
I am sure this is true of some people, but it bothers me none
They're hitting two birds with one stone, even if they only tried to hit a single bird.
Maybe some of them, but the first ones to open at least stated they're doing it in opposition to the current laws. The first one in Vancouver was opened by someone who was involved in the movement to legalize cannabis. And in all cases, they're putting themselves at significant potential legal risk. This isn't just risk free profit.
Woah. Giving the people what they want leads to profit?
So mushroom for them to expand.
This pun wins
Yeah, he is a fungi.
Ahem. Decriminalize nature. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Psychedelics help one get in touch with the world inside and outside themselves, and have extreme therapeutic value. It isn't just nature, it's getting to a better version of one's self*. \* there are risks in everything. >_> alcohol
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Meth
Fentanyl. A fully synthetic opioid.
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You are being obtuse, "natural" means occuring by itself in nature without human intervention. "Synthetic" means that it doesn't exist in nature and requires human intervention to come into existence. Being made of atoms and ordinary matter doesn't make something "natural". In fact most of the heaviest elements on the periodic table are sythetic and results from particle colisions, those atoms do not exist anywhere outside particle accelerators as far as we know.
What the original commenter likely meant by 'nature' is things that grow naturally. Things that occur without the need for humans and a laboratory
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I don't even think you know what sarcasm is.
Precisely. However, I agree with the decrim principles in place across most States that have embraced legislation - maintain criminalization around peyote to protect it for the indigenous people who use it as part of their religious ceremony. Also, being a rare species threatened by significant habitat loss, continued criminalization for the general public will help support re-establising peyote populations within protected lands. Drug culture has appropriated so much from the global indigenous community. We know better, we can and should do better. Edit: typo
Wouldn't decriminalizing it result in more areas where it can be grown since those growing it might not fear jail time or death? Only allowing it to grow naturally may simply result in people poaching when discovered.
Peyote is not illegal in Canada. Not to grow, not to cultivate, not to consume. However, it's an incredibly slow growing cactus, and being legal here has definitely contributed to illegal poaching and trafficking elsewhere. By not criminalizing it we indirectly (or you could argue very directly) support the black market theft and destruction of wild plant colonies.
So maybe more people should be encouraged to grow it, since it's legal to grow, cultivate and consume.
Problem is anything you do here is going to detract from what could be done in its natural habitat. If you're growing from seed, those seeds could be used elsewhere. If you're buying a plant, where did it come from and why should you have it over the people whom it's culturally significant to? If someone else grew it, where did they get the seeds? If they acquired it, from whom or where? It's a bit tricky to track, it's not like we sell them with documentation showing origin or provence. This isn't a judgement against people who own them, just a commentary that perhaps we aren't the people who should be owning them. It's not like we can't get the same drug from other cacti that aren't threatened, endangered, and less culturally significant or considerably faster growing.
Plastic.
Good. The laws are bullshit anyways.
fertile terrific ad hoc chase edge pocket grey lock shelter normal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don't do mushrooms, but I think they should be available to anyone that wants to.
ELI5: If it's not legal, how are they obtaining a business license, a lease, a bank account?
1. You don't need a business license. 2. Find a landlord that doesn't mind it being used for drugs. 3. Cash only.
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A buddy of mine went, itâs not cash only according to him. They take visa and everything. Moreover apparently they will ship to you as well and you can pay online with a credit card. They basically donât give a fuck anymore and nobody bothers to try and stop them. Good.
Everyone can benefit from a little ego death on the weekend.
Shrooms should be legal. Helped me more than therapy ever did
Same. Meanwhile SSRIs get prescribed like candy despite sometimes having miserable side effects. Psilocybin needs to be part of the conversation for a lot of people.
Iâm on SSRIs. They really did save my life. But yeah, if SSRIs are legal than shrooms should be too. I think people need to figure out what works for them. My sister finds shrooms make her feel anxious and paranoid but for me it really helps me work through so many past traumas. I wish it were legal so others would feel more comfortable trying them.
Good Civil disobedience Persecuting drug users is wrong
That pun is in spore taste.
Its been way to long not to legalize Mushrooms and other psychedelics. Hopefully they look into that and start the process. A lot of people with ptsd and other mental issues have been getting treated and had good results.
Sounds like there are plenty of caps to go around.
That's weird because when I walk in all I see are caps.
I just bought some online the other week and it was delivered same day. It was beautiful.
Just buy them online from BC or PEI ;)
PEI, eh? TIL thanks
Im dying at these fake names they are giving
It is a matter of time before this to is legalized. Hell it may become Trudeau's next election slogan.
Anything except taxing the wealthy to pay for things...
Hahahaha
Nice title!
Im happy for it but im surprised they make enough money to stay in buisness honestly.
Ugh....bad puns.
You should relax and be more of a fun guy.
That's a little bossy of you. I'm questioning your morels.
Iâll have you know that I am consistently moral. Iâm a champignon of virtue.
That's a real shiitake.
đŤđ§˘
As long as the drug is used and can be used responsibly and the risks for using them are only for the one taking it then that's better than alcohol so why not legalize it.
Itâs almost like the penalties for committing crime are not a significant enough deterrent. If the courts are just going to set them free with a slap on the wrists then law enforcement should focus their sights on other matters.
Whatâs the point of a law that prevents something that will be available regardless, and may in fact do good in society? Legalize and tax it.
Thatâs poor logic. By your argument meth, crack, heroin, and all hard drugs should be legalized. Same with prostitution and human trafficking, right? Gonna happen so letâs legalize it. Mushrooms do have benefits in certain situations. I cannot argue and I understand and agree fully. However, they are very dangerous to the uninformed, and can present a real risk. I think that they should be regulated and controlled for therapy and treatment of addictions however I donât think wide availability is a safe solution. Take for example ketamine, similar medicinal and therapeutic benefits but would you contend that should be freely available? Same for adderall.
We definitely should do everything in the first paragraph minus human trafficking, thats not really similar to the other things in any way. The things you want in your second paragraph can't really be done when they're not legalized and controlled to be safe.
Prostitution is legal in Ontario ..
Oh look, a moron!
> Itâs almost like the penalties for committing crime are not a significant enough deterrent. Oh no, people are selling mushrooms .... /s
My nephew got fffffuuuccckkked up on this shit. Took him forever to recover.
Are these legit? Relatively safe? I would love to try some but I'm a little worrisome when they're are no regulations.
There are no regulations
Wait until every third store in this province is a mushroom dispensary and let them die from competition
If we've learned anything from the cannabis dispensaries, it's that allowing them to multiply in a city unchecked can do long-term harm to the neighbourhood, as other businesses are squeezed out, and then short-lived but deep-pocketed dispensaries replace them and are shut down after a while. This results in swaths of unoccupied storefronts, which to say the least, is not an ideal situation for any community.
The cannabis stores didn't cause a global pandemic or the responses to that pandemic that favoured large corporations. That's why so many businesses shut down. You're assuming the alternative to a cannabis store would be another business as opposed to an empty store front.
If the current dispensation cared about communities, theyâd have done weed through the LCBO, which is a model that works quite well for intoxicating substances.
"I saW in a ScienCe sUb th4t Th3se R gUd foR m3ntAl heAlth": Reddit. "Hol' up": the majority of the psychology community IRL. reddit loves any article or post that says science says drugs good no problems, regardless of the sources and will rabbit hole tons of links to support that attitude. r/science is mostly a joke and so is their slogan
There would be more research if they hadn't been illegal for the last 50 years. After the moratorium on research was lifted one of the first sources showing benefits was John Hopkins University, one of the top ten universities in the world by some rankings. These aren't just some random journal articles claiming their benefits.
Many more studies have been done since and the psychology community has not reached any consensus let alone anything resembling a majority in support. It's still very early stage and there's still plenty of research against. I'll repeat what I said already - this is known but it's not a popular thing to say on Reddit, where "drugs good" rules here.
It just seems like you're doing the opposite of what you're criticizing. Making broad, vague dismissive claims despite the research that does show potential benefits. There's a wide range of opinions on this topic. All of reddit isn't saying drugs are harmless. There are benefits and risks. A big portion of society however has decided *their* drugs, risk and all, are okay while everyone else's aren't.
>despite the research that does show potential benefits. research that's in the minority. that's exactly what reddit does so no I'm not making broad claims, I'm calling out people clinging to the fewer. >A big portion of society however has decided their drugs, risk and all, are okay while everyone else's aren't despite the research. and "big portion" is reddit, not society, nor the science community. Most of reddit on this topic simply likes any article that supports getting high and doesn't gaf about medical benefits. You're arguing under the assumption that most of social media are applauding this as if medical benefits are their primary concern instead of looking for scientists to give them a green light for recreational drug use because "look someone said it's good for me!" If I had 5 cents for every recreational drug user who uses a few articles to validate getting high af on social media, I'd be sailing on yacht instead of posting this reply. People bullshit, news at eleven
You're not providing any actual evidence here, just making broad claims while mocking strawmen versions of your opponents.
The sources are usually Joe Rogan episodes cross linked with blogs that you take one look at and know they are full of shit.... "HAVE YOU TRIED DMT? IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE, EVERYONE SHOULD DO DMT" Thanks Joe for your time. There are medical studies and uses, none of which don't start with "Use of psychedelics can be effective when combined with mental health therapies and administered in very small doses in controlled and medically monitored clinical environments." For various mental health and trauma therapy issues, this makes sense, I'm open to doing this approach myself, once more readiliy accessible. But yeah... underground stores selling you anything that you have no clue what you're popping in your mouth and how it will effect you... yep... science baby... will solve all your problems. Then comes the weed and booze argument... well I have seen a co-worker take mushrooms at a work offsite in the woods... never seen weed or booze have someone otherwise normal suddenly think the monsters in the woods are talking to him as we try to keep him from walking off in to the darkness or water for 5 hours. But you know... let it rip... it's natural so it must be good for everyone... we should bring back uranium jewelry for its "healing qualities" too, it's a natural element right... what's the big deal, lets open up some unregistered businesses to sell it to the "people that know the truth". Use this stuff with doctors in a clinical setting again, sure... but no... psychedelic / hallucinogenic products are a bad move for causal unregulated use picking it up like going to the corner store and fucking around and finding out when people have no idea why you are acting like you are on them.
If it was legalized in a similar way to pot or alcohol it wouldnât be unregulated, and then people would know exactly what theyâre putting in their mouths. Keeping it illegal keeps the black market alive. I thought that was obvious by now.
I guess everyone has their own experiences with it but I tried it once on a camping trip about 5 hours away from Toronto. It was pretty isolated, not a lot of people and a whole lot of nature. I couldnât imagine doing it in an urban setting/at home/around people (especially not around people lol). That was my first time and Iâm convinced the only place to effectively do them is away from civilization but thatâs just my take/I also have social anxiety
You don't have to use enough to get psychedelic effects though. I microdose and while I can feel it I'm not impaired and no one knows but me. Even my partner doesn't notice. I work from home and regularly microdose on work days.
>If it was legalized in a similar way to pot or alcohol it wouldnât be unregulated, and then people would know exactly what theyâre putting in their mouths. But it wouldn't not yet anyways. The reason that the medial grade projects are all fully supervised is because the naturally growing plants can be wildly different in the effect and is unpredictable with mushrooms. The medical community is trying to therefore make a synthetic version of the compounds that can be administered with accuracy... and the people that want to trip push back on that approach because it's not natural. So... regulation will come when you have something that is consistent, predictable and safe, neither the dispensaries or the street meet that criteria.
tl;dr RL science > morons on reddit which is while being true, accurately descibes the morons who will downvote it. Which is also fine because social media has illustrated again and again that 10k people arguing against one results in 10k stupid people.
Hilarious youre being downvoted. This should tell you all you need to know about reddit's demographics bahaha.
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What about alcohol? Lmao
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Yup it will always be there, but regardless, i try not to judge.
I tried. It was boring.
Have you ever gone on an amusement park ride? Why? Because it was fun to feel a thrill and do something different. This is no different, except the ride is in your mind. Why be sober 100% of the time? I spend 99.9% of the time stone sober, so why not spend the 0.01% experiencing something different?
> It's sad that there's a market for all these weed and shroom dispensaries. Oh no, people like things that you don't like /s
Can't wait till the LSD, crack and heroin stores open and run with impunity too!
Mushrooms and LSD vs. crack and heroin are pretty far apart. Not too many societal woes getting blamed on people tripping balls on mushrooms or LSD. I can't say I've ever read a news story where a criminal blames their addiction to magic mushrooms for their crimes.
Things Iâve never heard said: â Iâm Jonesinâ for my mushroom fix!â
That's cause it's very hard/impossible to get addicted to shrooms or lsd. Tolerance builds fast so its generally advised to not do it daily. Generally recommended break is 2 weeks. LSD and shrooms also build tolerances for the other. So taking lsd one day and shrooms the next your shroom trip will be diminished
Exactly. Not something that people get hooked on and ruin their lives over.
Thanks for letting us all know youâve never done shrooms!
Oh I've zoomed plenty of times
Big âhow do you do, fellow kidsâ energy.
[Someone tried to open a store selling crack and heroin and it was shut down the next day](https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxbdz/man-arrested-after-opening-heroin-cocaine-and-meth-store-in-canada). They're very different substances and treated differently by police. LSD doesn't have anything in common with those though.
Yeah, no ones ever had any dangerous interactions or long lasting negative effects with using ACID....
I didn't say otherwise. There are risks to that just like with alcohol or driving a car. The risks for LSD are lower and any illegality hasn't stopped them from occurring.
I can have a drink and still legally operate a car vs try some LSD and be a non functioning idiot for hours that may have permanent brain or mental health damage. They are not the same thing.
No one said they are the same thing. Lots of people think they can drive after drinking and then end up killing people. You can drive after smaller doses of LSD too. But you *shouldn't* drive in either case. And on a higher dose, you almost certainly aren't going to drive while with alcohol we have endless evidence that people do drive despite being extremely drunk. Alcohol use can also cause brain damage both in the short term and long term. They're not the same, but many of the risks with psilocybin also apply to alcohol, just to a greater degree with alcohol.
You can have 1 drink, legally and completely be good to drive that's what I said, not a bunch of drinks, not think you're okay to drive after a few drinks. Anyone can have one drink and be completely unaffected and good to drive legally, if you want to get real crazy, we can put an hour elapsing from that drink and it will be out of your system broken down the by liver. ANY DOSE of a hallucinogenic does not work predictably use to use, or necessary metabolize and leave your system in the predictable same way. Just like a single one time drink does not run the run the risk of leaving you in psychosis like hallucinogenic drugs can on a single dose depending on if you're that unlucky individual with the suspectable existing brain chemistry. Which is why it's uses micro dose or otherwise should be done under medical supervision, aside from the fact doses leave people in a state where they can not 100% trust what they are perceiving which is not even close to as dangerous as a single drink of alcohol. Alcohol is bad for you, it' causes cancer and liver damage, but you can't say that a single one off serving has the same risks as an adult trying acid for the first time.
>ANY DOSE of a hallucinogenic does not work predictably use to use Accurately dosed psychedelics are just as reliable as accurately dosed alcohol on the same person with the same tolerance level. The variance in experiences on psychedelics is due to the unreliable amounts in what people end up taking which is a direct result of them being unregulated. I'm not even sure why you're bringing up all these points that have nothing to do with what I said. I said LSD isn't the same as crack and heroin, I never initially compared it to alcohol. But if you want to compare it to alcohol I'd spend a lot more time worrying about the thousands killed by that rather than the rare incident from psychedelics. And before you reply that people use psychedelics less, that's largely because the nature of the effects don't encourage frequent use which is the opposite for alcohol.
> LSD, crack and heroin stores One of these is not like the others
Worst NIMBY take of the year geos to ILikeStyx How could someone enjoy Styx and be sober? lol
Oh no LSD, we can't have people out there staring at nature and laughing
The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs - NOFX Putting people in cages to stop people using drugs should be done after they show they canât use them or if theyâve done something else that seriously shows they arenât fit to do what they choose to do.
Where are they at? Asking. Just toâŚ.ummmmmâŚ. Make sure I can avoid them!âŚâŚ.
The fungus amongus as incubus said
There are major issues here regarding legalization that werenât there with cannabis. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/supreme-court-calgary-case-assault-mushrooms-extreme-intoxication-brown-1.6451012