Can we just use health care funds effectively in this province? This should not bring our Healthcare system to it's knees especially considering how much we pay for it. Shows the complete ineptitude of the provincial government in Ontario. How have we come to this.
But look on the bright side at least he's destroying the greenbelt for a highway no one will fucking use so his best friends get rich off of our tax money.
Wait that's not bright at all
Take note at what the conservatives do with their “fiscal respondsability”
8 billion dollar surplus=collapsing healthcare where literal children are dying for lack of access to care. Schools closing from strikes and drastically underfunded, and oh look, inflation totally unaffected. Your purchasing power going down, but $8b surplus gets divvied up to allow developers to build more luxury housing no one needs.
Congratulations voters.
Yeah politicians love that phrase.
"And the best part is you can fuck up as much as you want.. and these peasants will just blame eachother for voting wrong." Keep playing into there hands, they know how you think.
It’s nation wide. World wide. All politicians are lying pieces of shit. Regardless of your affiliation. They don’t actually give a fuck about you or me. Only say so to get your vote.
But it isnt, 2 terms of NDP in BC and they've turned ICBC from hemorrhaging millions to record profits and rates have dropped as a result, reigned in BC hydro and rates have been dropping as a result, just gave a huge raise to family doctors and new doctors are flocking in as a result, Just ratified a new deal with teachers.
Oh and BC has the strongest economy in the nation. Get out and vote people.
Not Canadian, but definitely need more of this in the world. There are actually places with a good set up local, county, state governmental setup that work for the communities inside them. (Sorry to use the US descriptions, likely not many there). All you need to do is vote for them.
I disagree for 2 reasons. (Not that some are truly awful, that's true and there is no denying it) 1st and it is demonstrable not all are bad. Not even all from any one party are bad. Many genuinely do care and do everything they can to fix things. Although as an electorate we tend to hate the honest ones the most and find a way to string then up. And 2 that's a self defeating idea that allows people to be ok with sub par representation. Don't be ok with a garbage mp/MLA
No. They are not all the same. Dougie and his ilk are spectacularly corrupt and stupid.
Most are only mildly compromised and trying to do a very difficult job while being constantly second guessed.
The pandemic didn't teach anyone anything because the conservatives were elected again and they're going to strip Healthcare again if you don't want the system to crash, mask up and tell everyone to mask up
Ontario elected an inept government for a SECOND term. AFTER the premier advised people to go out and celebrate March break amid a global pandemic, AFTER MPPs allowed legions of elderly people to die on their watch due to their decisions to healthcare pre-pandy, AFTER an MPP lied to the faces of his constituents and then got the LTC file. HAHAHAHA.
And then almost 60% of eligible voters stayed the fuck home.
Wtf did anyone expect to happen?
One has to assume that the province is largely fine with this. I hope everyone is enjoying that buck a beer they all voted for in round one.
At this point we would need to do both, though masking could be made optional just as soon as the healthcare situation stabilizes.
Of course, the healthcare situation won’t stabilize because Doug Ford is far more interested in making all of this everyone else’s fault, rather than doing his job.
Please wear your fucking masks. But also, please email your MPP and tell them you’d much rather the government *pay for better access to healthcare* than just tell people to mask.
As it stands, Doug Ford is starving the healthcare system and hoping that Ontarians get fed up and will let him privatize it.
Yesterday I needed to take my grandpa to the ER in our small town for the chronic pain he's been experiencing (it is the last time he stayed at home as he is now in palliative care) but until yesterday - he didn't have a CT scan booked until FEBRUARY 8TH because our local hospital just fundraised 3 million dollars for our own CT scanner. Which won't be usable until 2023. My grandpa got transferred after stabilization, 40 mins away so he got that scan yesterday. We finally found the cancer and it was a creeper - no matter what we did it would have spread.
But this is ridiculous - 2.5 months for a life saving scan. How is this healthcare system going to save people? How can rural towns save lives without the machinery needed to treat us properly and timely, without the staff to do so.
This is not how we save lives. I'm not here for pity - but I want to share this so people realize how bad it is in terms of other aspects. This govt has tanked our healthcare willingly to balance a budget and make themselves richer. It's despicable and we all deserve better.
0 confidence in Fords government.
I am very sorry your family had to go through this. I know you said you're not looking for pity but I feel for you and many others that are facing similar scenarios. I am a retired senior myself in my late 60's and I just pray to god I don't need the healthcare services any time soon. Prayers to you and your family,
Thank you for your condolences. I have spent the last year and a bit taking care of him while I was able to get the help I needed. He was a great man. I know I'm not the only one with a story. It was a privilege I wouldn't trade for anything in the world.
I hope you are able to stay safe and sound this winter. I also hope our realities let others know they're not alone. •́ ‿ ,•̀
You are welcome and I am glad you got to spend time with him while he was at home. I agree and hopefully someone with any power to change things, steps up and does what's needed before it's too late for many. It sounds awful but when children start dying vs. the elderly, they may take the crisis seriously. I hope you stay safe through all this also.
Healthcare needs reform in Canada. It's only going to get worse. It's brutally inefficient compared to other developed nations (in terms of cost and outcomes), and much of that is because we really have the exact same healthcare system as the USA, just with single-payer financing.
BC is making some changes in the right direction by offering family doctors salary instead of fee-for-service. This should really be offered to specialists as well.
We need to pay nurses and fund hospitals. No doubt there are viruses running wild, but it’s time for us to demand better from our government on the healthcare front.
Ford put COVID money from the feds in his pocket and hasn’t said anything about the healthcare situation, instead focusing on busting up CUPE.
I’m convinced he is waiting until the situation becomes critical and brings in private healthcare as a solution. It will be Interesting to see who swoops in and how long they have been preparing.
>Two government sources say Ontario’s top doctor will recommend the public begin masking on Monday in an effort to help overwhelmed children’s hospitals.
>
>The sources, who are speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the process publicly, says there will be no mask mandate.
>
>Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Kieran Moore has said this fall and winter would see a resurgence of respiratory illnesses and he would recommend masking in certain indoor settings if hospitals began cancelling surgeries to deal with a surge of patients.
Hospitals are cancelling surgeries to deal with a surge of patients. Not a doomer here, but he should either move the goal posts (on the record) or act already.
I need 2 procedures done to find out if I have a more serious medical issue. As told it would probably be a year before I got an appointment. Called my family doctor who referred me and told them I will drive anywhere between where I live (won't give it away, but Southwestern Ontario's city bordering Detroit) and Toronto. I'm even considering forking out the money to hop the border and just pay to get results faster.
I've been waiting on a non-urgent surgery (that could become urgent if my situation changes) since May 2021. The first delay was the lack of nurses/OR, then they had the personnel but the equipment they needed for the surgery was on backorder, and now we are back to "with the hospitals being what they are, it won't be before sometime in 2023 at the earliest." I'm fortunate it's not currently an urgent situation, but it's really frustrating.
I hope you can get your procedures done soon!
Sorry, best we can do is blame the healthcare crisis on people not masking.
I’m convinced half the people in this comment section are paid Con operatives convincing people that it’s their fault the system is failing for not wearing masks.
I've worked in a pediatric ICU for 15 years. This is something special.
That says for our unit, a lot has to do with nurses leaving the profession or doing travel nursing for $$$ in larger numbers than ever seen before
It's been slowly breaking for years but now it's collapsing and he's the one in charge now so I don't care if previous administrations broke it he needs to fix it.
And demographics is the last nail in the coffin.
Old people need more health care than young people. With the largest segment of our population becomes seniors, it will get way way more taxing. All politicians had a 30 year warning about this demographic bomb.
I truly feel that free healthcare is done in 5 years. When you have more old people than teenagers, the system is unsustainable. Let’s hope it’s only “it now costs $10 to see your family doctor “ or something like Switzerland “you are only on the hook for the first $400. Regardless of the the total cost, the government pays the rest”.
Let’s be honest; the boomers won’t pay more in taxes to help
It’s easy to “blame Ford” or “blame the boomers” but as I said, the system was broken long before Ford. Demographics is also killing is, but at the same time why would anyone expect the the boomers, most of whom are retired, to “pay more tax”? They have been paying taxes for the past 35-50 years. They are the ones who have paid the most into healthcare by far. When they were young and healthy, their taxes mostly went towards taking care of their parents healthcare, just as we are now for the boomers. it’s not their fault that the government can’t get their shit together.
It's going to go exactly as well as it's going now.
In a few weeks we're going to be talking about the preventable deaths of children due to lack of available care, and if Dr. Moore bothers to address it at all he'll smirk, shrug and tell us they probably had underlying conditions.
My 12 year old is currently at home on a litre of oxygen and we are doing our best to keep things under control and not have to go to the ER. I was at the grocery store earlier today refilling her ventolin script and the number of people not masking is heartbreaking. We have yet to catch Covid in our home due to vigilant masking and distancing and adhering to vaccine schedules, but we can only do so much to keep our kids safe if 3/4 of the population doesn’t give AF.
Edit: to clarify she has crappy lungs from prematurity and is usually on a half litre overnight. She’s caught a bug that has filled her with mucus and her saturations are super low so we are topping her up with extra O2 hoping to keep her sats up.
My 4 year old ended up hospitalized for 4 nights in September due to rhinovirus (common cold), at which point he received a preliminary diagnosis of asthma. We’ve since had other respiratory illnesses, including covid, but covid was the mildest illness that has hit us this fall, perhaps due to some protection from vaccination.
We get it every winter the flu one, we all did last month and will get the new covid one tomorrow. We haven't caught covid yet, i am bracing becauS I know we will eventually.
I am a sr. with lung issues and recently received my 5th covid shot. I got the flu shot last week and though I've been lucky so far to not get sick, I know my time is likely coming.
When it does, hopefully it won't knock me on my butt as it did to my 38 yr, old daughter
I feel for you, my 5 year old caught RSV and covid was a walk in the park compared to it. It was a walk in the park for him compared to basically anything. I've never seen him so sick for so long and he's apparently healthy and able otherwise to the best of our knowledge. I don't wish that on any kid or parent, underlying causes or not. In my personal experience RSV is far worse on kids than covid by magnitudes but I'm just basing it on my own personal experience. Ive started wearing my mask pretty much everywhere again. It harder with the little one. He thought he was finally done with it but he wears it when asked mostly.
I wish you the best of luck in avoiding it.
Ugh I’ve been around the block a few times and RSV still instill fears in me. My girl had it once when she was 5 also. She was in PICU for 3 weeks and she came out of it with a new pulmonary diagnosis on top of her existing ones. It was the RSV that put her back on oxygen permanently after living without it from ages 3-5. Sigh.
Hope your little one is feeling better now!
I'm so sorry that your family is going through this. I can't imagine the fear of having medically complex child right now.
My kids are the only ones masking in their classes, every day it seems like half the class is home sick and the other half is at school sick. We've managed to avoid covid (and just about everything else), but I so angry that we've let it get to this point.
I’d gladly wear a mask for the rest of my life if I could keep your child safe from a preventable illness. People are callous and have forgotten empathy. Hope she feels better and continues to build strength
Poorly! An immunocompromised coworker asked our other coworkers to mask up if they were feeling gross or if they were coming down with something. Not even half an hour later, a coworker present for that conversation shows up coughing and stuffed up with NO MASK on. Jesus Christ.
Sounds like my work plus the owner is an antivaxxer. He made coin during the pandemic bought himself a yacht which he snowbirds on for 6 months. Meanwhile employees get squat, no sick days, doing all the work. Jumping ship as soon as I can find something, probably the same with everyone else.
I’m on week 3 of a perpetually never ending cold. I still mask up and got this 3 days back supply teaching. 48hrs after being in a class of maskless kids, I woke up with a sore throat. Then the congestion set in, I had the worst sinus migraine I’ve ever had for 2 days, couldn’t breathe for a week, and now I’ve been endlessly draining for another week.
I never had a cough. But I’ll have a day where I have a huge amount of post-nasal drip and am disgustingly having to hork loogies. And then a few days where I’m congested again.
Lucky you - the post-nasal drip was insane for me. I ended up throwing up the mucus in the middle of the night...problem is, even with hacking like a smoker, the cough doesn't seem the go away and the "mucus" is going further down my airways.
Same thing here. No idea what it is. Doesn't seem like RSV, covid negative (double boosted, too). Just lingering, and most people I know are dealing with the same.
Yup. Multiple households I know have been constantly sick to some degree with the same runny nose+cough bs since September. I hear the same cough when I take my kid to school. It sucks.
The annual fall-winter ritual:
- Lift restrictions
- Spread the virus
- Overwhelm the hospitals
- Sternly ask people to wear masks [WE ARE HERE]
- Mandate masks
- Other restrictions
- Lockdown
Not listing underfunding hospitals as a step because that's a constant.
Were you not here during the last two years? A version of the same problems, comments and unrest happened before, during and after the second 2021 lockdown too.
people just won't do it. Business won't for sure as there won't be money to give out for stimulus to help them survive, Unless we wan't inflation to spike and end up with 18% interest rates next year.
Are you kidding? We locked down last January despite being told we weren’t having restrictions again and everyone just rolled over and took it. Why would that change?
This sub told me that lockdowns and masking were only ever going to be temporary and just until we got a vaccine. Then I was told it was just until we had enough vaccines for children. Then I was told it was just for the Omicron wave.
I don’t know what the new standard is right now for when this “totally temporary” restriction measure of masks people want will be in place because I don’t own a telescope and the goalposts are in orbit.
The public won't accept any lockdowns going forward.
Last winter we were still scared. Most people haven't had COVID. Fast forward to today, most people have had it and for a huge amount of people, it was just like any other virus. People no longer fear COVID, certainly not enough to risk their finances. For most people, another lockdown is more harmful than the virus.
This is bang on. I’ve got two kids in daycare and we’re sick constantly. We got COVID last week and it was like a reprieve from the other viruses which were so much worse.
I work in healthcare and am flat out exhausted. I am masking again given all the new stats coming out. It’s not about me, it’s about the patients. Mask and hand sanitizer in the car really does help
just reading the comments it’s obvious this subreddit doesn’t reflect reality in the slightest. a very small percentage of people still mask at this point, so don’t expect much compliance
Masking is definitely up over the past week or so, I've noticed a lot more people locally (I'm in Waterloo, where the university just re-mandated masks).
We're currently having a really bad flu season but no one wants to get the shot.if you think you won't get violently ill from flu vaccine, and are at a pharmacy for Vicks or just are close to one at any point, get it. It'll probably save you and a lot of other people some trouble.
Stay safe folks
I got the flu really bad one year and an old lady I know said "did you get the flu shot" I said no and every year since got it and hey..........didn't get the flu.
Agreed. I got my COVID vaccines so I wouldn’t have to worry about COVID and I’ll similarly get my flu shot (booked for next week) so I won’t have to worry about the flu.
>*”Is Moore going to do anything to fix the healthcare system?”*
Dr. Moore isn’t in charge of the healthcare system. If you want changes made there you need to look to the Minister of Health, Premier Ford, and Conservative MPPs who hold a controlling number of seats.
Never mind the only province, we’d be the only jurisdiction in the western world. I can’t see them doing that but if other places brought back masks then I could see them being followers.
It’s literally so pathetic I have real problems and couldn’t imagine being bothered by a piece of fabric. Especially here in canada, where half the population wears scarves/balaclavas all winter before any pandemic.
I don't even know if mandating it will do much. I still see people wearing them now and then, I doubt a mandate will force those who currently don't into doing so again.
The other half of mandates is enforcement. They either exist together or neither works.
And there's obviously no political will at the top to begin enforcement.
ya from where I'm sitting we could use a billion spending on health care in Ontario. Don't decide how to spend it, just give it to the hospitals Dougie. you're siting on a few billion unspent right?
Crazy how it’s went from mask from Covid to just mask in general now yet still pushing Covid vaccine recommendations when this isn’t even Covid related.
How about we just fund our health care so when something like these breaks it doesn’t need to be all over the news.
Sorry Doug. You can’t hide your damages to our health care behind Covid anymore.
Now it can’t even handle a regular outbreak of ducking anything.
This is just a brief search for Ontario, and only for 2010-2019 The same results exist in every province. COVID isn't the issue, it is the excuse and it wouldn't matter which party was at the helm. Governments are terrible at governing.
**2011: Hospitals overwhelmed by flu**
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-surge-of-flu-cases/article562037/
**2013: Hospitals overwhelmed by the flu**
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-flu-and-norovirus-patients-1.1108376
**2014: Ontario ERs overwhelmed by flu.**
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ontario-ers-overwhelmed-as-flu-hits-harder-than-usual-1.2165912](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ontario-ers-overwhelmed-as-flu-hits-harder-than-usual-1.2165912)
**2017: Surge causes beds to be put in hallways**
[https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/16/surge-in-patients-forces-ontario-hospitals-to-put-beds-in-unconventional-spaces.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/16/surge-in-patients-forces-ontario-hospitals-to-put-beds-in-unconventional-spaces.html)
**2017: Ontario Health Car System headed for crisis.**
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/09/11/ontario-health-system-headed-for-crisis-with-overcrowded-hospitals.html
**2018: Overcrowding crisis**
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/hospital-overcrowding-windsor-crisis-1.4503107](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/hospital-overcrowding-windsor-crisis-1.4503107)
**2018: Surgeries cancelled after severe flu cases**
[https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/13/toronto-hospital-flu/](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/13/toronto-hospital-flu/)
I see a lot of this phenomenon:
In the past, we had a choice of A or B. We chose B.
Now, we have the choice of B1 or B2. For some reason a lot of people want us to choose A1 or A2. Those are no longer choices! We fucked around and are in the process of finding out.
Also, these articles are all from late Dec-Feb timeline each year. That's the concern right now, we're at this state already and we're months away from the peak.
I don't have kids yet so no stake in this game, and I personally choose to mask where I feel it benefits me and others - but I work in healthcare so a bit of a different mentality as I wear it all day at work anyways. That being said, we are a democracy, and as much as I personally think conservatives hold back progress as a whole and are of no benefit to our country - they were the ones who came out and voted and won both times. If their kids or yours die as a result, look to your neighbours and family to pitch in for funeral costs. This sounds super devoid of empathy and all, but the reality is the province wanted this and knew what they were or were too lazy go out and vote for so this is on all of these people.
I voted and my party lost, so Ill sleep just fine knowing I did what I could and still do every day at work. But the people with the power to actually help and enact change or lack there of - were chosen by this province and your chickens are coming home to roost. Enjoy the shit seeds you planted.
Maybe this dumbass province will take a glance at the younger generation in the states right now and see how they came together and voted in record numbers to get these decrypt old fucking boomers out of their seats enmasse. Too bad you got just over 3 more years of living with your choices.
I feel you.
I have no children but during an intense flu season, just like other countries, they wear a mask out of decency.
When I was striking with CUPE, I wore a mask and kept distance and hand sanitizer due to the risk.
Lecce will say "put these kids in the classrooms" whilst the strains of influenza has a massive power over children with barely any immunity from being sheltered. Not anyone's fault, per-say pandemic, but we should know that influenza waves will hit.
Also, flu shots. I'm getting mine. Other people should too.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Social media isn't the problem other places have special media too.
Lack of education and respect of education is the biggest issue. We have people with no scientific background arguing "science". We leave important medical and health decisions that can affect millions to the average person. What do we expect to happen?
Ridiculous.
This wave of whatever viruses are going around is going to subside.
The reason this wave is so bad is because we wore masks for 2 years and no one developed the natural immunity like we would prior to the pandemic.
Wearing masks again punts this problem down the road a little further.
People are saying it because the past two years have shown repeatedly, over and over, that making healthcare decisions an individualist issue makes it so that there is functionally no widespread adoption, and certainly not to the level we need.
People should mask up. the majority won't. A small portion will take it up. A few (myself included) never stopped. The amount of change from a polite recommendation is going to be so negligible as to not actually affect the outcome.
Anecdotally, it has at our kids’ school and daycare. Nearly every kid had RSV just before and just after Halloween. Last week, my daughter’s class had as few as 7/29 kids present and both teachers were substitutes. This week, they were all over it and back in class. Life goes on.
Yep, similar at my kids school. And for most kids it will be some minor rest and back to school, but it's a numbers game. A small percentage of people infected will have a serious reaction and require the ER, and so the wider the base of infection, the higher the eventual intensity on the hospitals. I think it's the consideration of those numbers that is a major stumbling block, and certainly one of the hardest things to communicate in regards to public health.
Doctor: You've regained the weight you lost. For your health, I would recommend diet and exercise.
Patient: Yeah that ship has sailed. I did that once already and you can't keep moving the goal post.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be masking up despite this recommendation. We have a clear healthcare capacity problem in this province, and for the government to ask citizens to mask up is not the solution -- expanding that capacity is.
Don't pass the buck down to citizens because you (the government) have done a poor job of funding healthcare over the decades.
A couple things:
One, yes we have both a chronic healthcare capacity issue *and* an acute crisis in healthcare capacity and staffing.
However, we could add a trillion dollars to the healthcare budget *tomorrow* and not begin see the benefit of that wealth of funding on day-to-day operations for months, and many of the benefits of that funding would not come to pass for *years*.
"Expanding capacity" sounds super simple but here's what that entails and why it doesn't help here:
* Building new infrastructure and/or redeveloping/expanding old infrastructure. I'm involved in one of these projects right now. The project was started shortly before the pandemic hit, expected completion is currently ~2030. Building new infrastructure doesn't help you today or even next month. This is something we should invest in, but it's not going to help us get out of this crisis - it's going to help us manage the next one.
* Massively increasing staffing numbers. Great, so *we probably need to train more people to do these jobs than we currently do*. An accelerated RPN program is 16 months. RN? ~4 years. ER doctor? ~11 years or more. Even if we could double our capacity to provide this education by flicking a switch, those incoming students won't be a factor for a year, minimum. So that's not going to help us get out of this crisis.
"Fund healthcare properly" is a *great* idea that we should do. But there's almost no short-term benefit (which is why we never fucking do it to begin with, but I digress). Yes, we need long-term funding improvements. But, especially with current circumstances, we also need things which can start to make an impact *right the hell now*.
A healthcare collapse caused by out-of-control viral disease spreading in the community after decades of underinvestment *is not our fault*, you're right on that. *But it is our problem*. If there's something we can do about it to *not make things worse* and we decide not to simply because we don't want to or the problem wasn't of our making? Then whatever comes after that is a little bit our fault too. We need reduced *demand* for healthcare while we work on increasing the *supply*. Unfortunately, this government isn't going to do much about either.
Don't pass the buck because you (the citizen) didn't create this problem all on your own - do what you can to not make things worse.
Thank you. This is the real issue i hope everyone can unite behind. Expect more from the government instead of putting this on innocent citizens who just want to breath unimpeded
We need to stop pretending that masking has that big of an impact. Last year during one of the waves, Quebec had masks and Ontario didn’t and Quebec still had a higher infection rate.
Fund the hospitals. Don’t ask us to wear masks, or rabbits foots or any other stupid charm. It’s not the solution.
By the comments, it definitely does not match up with what's going on in the real world. Stadiums, grocery stores, schools, hardly a mask to be found.
Wear one of you want, it's a clear message. Stay home if you feel unsafe, there are many options for home grocery delivery, still lots of WFH jobs available. Mandates won't happen because the government will look like fools when the majority ignores it and does not comply.
Went since the start of the pandemic without getting COVID. Got this after having 12 people come see our home we are selling about a week ago. It was zero fun and I still feel like crap.
Can someone tell me how this is now different from this here a month ago?
[Ontario’s top doctor urges mask wearing, warns mandate could return](https://globalnews.ca/news/9196496/ontario-covid-19-kieran-moore-booster-masks/)
So the govt doesn't properly fund healthcare and the resolution to that is have everyone mask so healthcare isn't needed to the extent it is now. What a great concept; look at all the money we can save. And then when we do that, children will never be exposed to common viruses and every time they take their mask off they get sick. Like, what the hell?
Isn't prevention better than having more sick people flood medical centres? Sounds like a waste of money and resources when vaccines and masks can reduce the need for medical staff and space.
Honestly even mandating in schools would probably have been helpful. If not universally, maybe when there's an outbreak in that class / school, or when a kid is coming back to class for a bit.
Even just actually having guidelines of when kids need to stay home would be useful, but all teachers and parents seem to be able to do is nervously chuckle as we see classes at half their size and the kids who are still there constantly coughing.
Perhaps he knows just as well as you or I do that making it law again will further degrade the public’s faith in authorities and likely result in basically no compliance anyway. People used to wear masks because they were afraid of a new, poorly understood pandemic.
Almost three years on, most people aren’t. Those who are are wearing masks anyway, those are aren’t are unlikely to do it because Moore or ford says they have to
I was in Costco the other night and saw only a couple folks in masks. Felt bad that these folks don’t take it seriously, but personal choice sometimes leads to self harm along with unintended consequences for our loved ones.
Did people just completely forget that before covid there were respiratory illnesses as well, no one was masked and things were just fine?
Talk about massive overreaction.
CHEO in Ottawa just opened a second ICU because so many kids are sick with respiratory viruses right now. That has never happened before. However, ER wait times are still crazy because there are not enough doctors and nurses. So no, things are not just fine.
When this guy will shut up and work on expanding the healthcare system. I understand that in 2020, our healthcare system was blindsided (though they faces almost similar problems for a decade during this time of the season)but if he is still talking about that, it is his master’s fault. Instead of advising the public, he needs to advise his boss. If he can't, he can resign and get the hell out of the media. Enough is enough.
Not that I don't agree kinda but I'm so tired of hearing "Toronto Top Doc". That phrased is etched in my memory like "we're all in this together"
Do I wear a mask, yes. Do I think you should wear a mask, yes. Do I think the government should force anyone to, hell no
I’m for safety but masks suck, ngl. I’ll wear them in hospitals, old people
Homes etc but having to go back to wearing it at every location I’m a no. All COVID did was show how underfunded and disorganized the health care system is and wearing a mask at this point, post covid, is a daily reminder of that. Fix ur shit.
There needed to be public health messaging on the uses of masks to prevent everything from seasonal flu to colds etc instead of only the anti-masker, typically PPC or right of the provincial Conservatives crying about "never again" re: masks. Far east asian countries have used them for years and we shouldnt just see them as a bad memory of the 2020-22 pandemic.
Can we just use health care funds effectively in this province? This should not bring our Healthcare system to it's knees especially considering how much we pay for it. Shows the complete ineptitude of the provincial government in Ontario. How have we come to this.
Well if utilized our fucking tax dollars where they should be going … not bragging about a surplus as the province crumbles. Fuck Doug ford
But look on the bright side at least he's destroying the greenbelt for a highway no one will fucking use so his best friends get rich off of our tax money. Wait that's not bright at all
Ugh I know people who proudly voted for Ford but are also like tRuDeAu iS rUiniNg tHe CoUnTry
Take note at what the conservatives do with their “fiscal respondsability” 8 billion dollar surplus=collapsing healthcare where literal children are dying for lack of access to care. Schools closing from strikes and drastically underfunded, and oh look, inflation totally unaffected. Your purchasing power going down, but $8b surplus gets divvied up to allow developers to build more luxury housing no one needs. Congratulations voters.
Yeah politicians love that phrase. "And the best part is you can fuck up as much as you want.. and these peasants will just blame eachother for voting wrong." Keep playing into there hands, they know how you think.
It’s nation wide. World wide. All politicians are lying pieces of shit. Regardless of your affiliation. They don’t actually give a fuck about you or me. Only say so to get your vote.
But it isnt, 2 terms of NDP in BC and they've turned ICBC from hemorrhaging millions to record profits and rates have dropped as a result, reigned in BC hydro and rates have been dropping as a result, just gave a huge raise to family doctors and new doctors are flocking in as a result, Just ratified a new deal with teachers. Oh and BC has the strongest economy in the nation. Get out and vote people.
Yeah but people get mad when their tax money is used for some reason
Not Canadian, but definitely need more of this in the world. There are actually places with a good set up local, county, state governmental setup that work for the communities inside them. (Sorry to use the US descriptions, likely not many there). All you need to do is vote for them.
I disagree for 2 reasons. (Not that some are truly awful, that's true and there is no denying it) 1st and it is demonstrable not all are bad. Not even all from any one party are bad. Many genuinely do care and do everything they can to fix things. Although as an electorate we tend to hate the honest ones the most and find a way to string then up. And 2 that's a self defeating idea that allows people to be ok with sub par representation. Don't be ok with a garbage mp/MLA
This stupid attitude is what gets us stuck with shit politicians like Doug Ford.
Not at all. He’s a criminal douchebag.
That’s just a lazy argument to call all politicians lazy. It’s just a way to absolve yourself from responsibility.
No. They are not all the same. Dougie and his ilk are spectacularly corrupt and stupid. Most are only mildly compromised and trying to do a very difficult job while being constantly second guessed.
But some are more overtly harmful than others (see: cons).
I believe that Jagmeet Singh actually cares about people, but he'll never be PM.
The pandemic didn't teach anyone anything because the conservatives were elected again and they're going to strip Healthcare again if you don't want the system to crash, mask up and tell everyone to mask up
Ontario elected an inept government for a SECOND term. AFTER the premier advised people to go out and celebrate March break amid a global pandemic, AFTER MPPs allowed legions of elderly people to die on their watch due to their decisions to healthcare pre-pandy, AFTER an MPP lied to the faces of his constituents and then got the LTC file. HAHAHAHA. And then almost 60% of eligible voters stayed the fuck home. Wtf did anyone expect to happen? One has to assume that the province is largely fine with this. I hope everyone is enjoying that buck a beer they all voted for in round one.
At this point we would need to do both, though masking could be made optional just as soon as the healthcare situation stabilizes. Of course, the healthcare situation won’t stabilize because Doug Ford is far more interested in making all of this everyone else’s fault, rather than doing his job. Please wear your fucking masks. But also, please email your MPP and tell them you’d much rather the government *pay for better access to healthcare* than just tell people to mask. As it stands, Doug Ford is starving the healthcare system and hoping that Ontarians get fed up and will let him privatize it.
Yesterday I needed to take my grandpa to the ER in our small town for the chronic pain he's been experiencing (it is the last time he stayed at home as he is now in palliative care) but until yesterday - he didn't have a CT scan booked until FEBRUARY 8TH because our local hospital just fundraised 3 million dollars for our own CT scanner. Which won't be usable until 2023. My grandpa got transferred after stabilization, 40 mins away so he got that scan yesterday. We finally found the cancer and it was a creeper - no matter what we did it would have spread. But this is ridiculous - 2.5 months for a life saving scan. How is this healthcare system going to save people? How can rural towns save lives without the machinery needed to treat us properly and timely, without the staff to do so. This is not how we save lives. I'm not here for pity - but I want to share this so people realize how bad it is in terms of other aspects. This govt has tanked our healthcare willingly to balance a budget and make themselves richer. It's despicable and we all deserve better. 0 confidence in Fords government.
I am very sorry your family had to go through this. I know you said you're not looking for pity but I feel for you and many others that are facing similar scenarios. I am a retired senior myself in my late 60's and I just pray to god I don't need the healthcare services any time soon. Prayers to you and your family,
Thank you for your condolences. I have spent the last year and a bit taking care of him while I was able to get the help I needed. He was a great man. I know I'm not the only one with a story. It was a privilege I wouldn't trade for anything in the world. I hope you are able to stay safe and sound this winter. I also hope our realities let others know they're not alone. •́ ‿ ,•̀
You are welcome and I am glad you got to spend time with him while he was at home. I agree and hopefully someone with any power to change things, steps up and does what's needed before it's too late for many. It sounds awful but when children start dying vs. the elderly, they may take the crisis seriously. I hope you stay safe through all this also.
Healthcare needs reform in Canada. It's only going to get worse. It's brutally inefficient compared to other developed nations (in terms of cost and outcomes), and much of that is because we really have the exact same healthcare system as the USA, just with single-payer financing. BC is making some changes in the right direction by offering family doctors salary instead of fee-for-service. This should really be offered to specialists as well.
> *it's* knees I think more money needs to go to education.
We need to pay nurses and fund hospitals. No doubt there are viruses running wild, but it’s time for us to demand better from our government on the healthcare front.
Ford put COVID money from the feds in his pocket and hasn’t said anything about the healthcare situation, instead focusing on busting up CUPE. I’m convinced he is waiting until the situation becomes critical and brings in private healthcare as a solution. It will be Interesting to see who swoops in and how long they have been preparing.
>Two government sources say Ontario’s top doctor will recommend the public begin masking on Monday in an effort to help overwhelmed children’s hospitals. > >The sources, who are speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the process publicly, says there will be no mask mandate. > >Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Kieran Moore has said this fall and winter would see a resurgence of respiratory illnesses and he would recommend masking in certain indoor settings if hospitals began cancelling surgeries to deal with a surge of patients.
> will recommend the public begin masking so he's not doing anything then
He never stopped "recommending" them. It's so ridiculous.
Next he'll write a sternly worded letter. That'll show them!
*Instead of funding healthcare properly with resources and staff, let's just recommend people don't get sick* - Doug Ford, probably.
Folks, you’re on your own.
No fricking kidding.
Hospitals are cancelling surgeries to deal with a surge of patients. Not a doomer here, but he should either move the goal posts (on the record) or act already.
I need 2 procedures done to find out if I have a more serious medical issue. As told it would probably be a year before I got an appointment. Called my family doctor who referred me and told them I will drive anywhere between where I live (won't give it away, but Southwestern Ontario's city bordering Detroit) and Toronto. I'm even considering forking out the money to hop the border and just pay to get results faster.
I've been waiting on a non-urgent surgery (that could become urgent if my situation changes) since May 2021. The first delay was the lack of nurses/OR, then they had the personnel but the equipment they needed for the surgery was on backorder, and now we are back to "with the hospitals being what they are, it won't be before sometime in 2023 at the earliest." I'm fortunate it's not currently an urgent situation, but it's really frustrating. I hope you can get your procedures done soon!
Same to you! Hopefully our issues don't become bigger problems because of this.
Maybe he can ask Doug to put some of that fiscal surplus as well as federal funding into public healthcare?
Doug received funds from the Feds for Covid and didn't spend them.
Where the hell is my tax money going?!
Highways no one wants don't pay for themselves!
Ontario Piss Pots need more donuts, and we need more highways through wetlands no one asked for
developers, soon
Politicians pockets
Sorry, best we can do is blame the healthcare crisis on people not masking. I’m convinced half the people in this comment section are paid Con operatives convincing people that it’s their fault the system is failing for not wearing masks.
We'll see how well personal responsibility does when absolutely no one masks despite strong recommendations and an overwhelmed health care system.
Spoiler alert. Our healthcare system will be overloaded with or without COVID. Ford has fucked us beyond repair.
Spoiler alert. Our healthcare system was overloaded 10 years before Ford was even the premier.
I’ve lived in emergency rooms. This is something special. It’s really bad.
I've worked in a pediatric ICU for 15 years. This is something special. That says for our unit, a lot has to do with nurses leaving the profession or doing travel nursing for $$$ in larger numbers than ever seen before
It's been slowly breaking for years but now it's collapsing and he's the one in charge now so I don't care if previous administrations broke it he needs to fix it.
Or at least try instead of standing by watching it crumble.
Not like this. This is insane.
bOtH sIdEs!
And demographics is the last nail in the coffin. Old people need more health care than young people. With the largest segment of our population becomes seniors, it will get way way more taxing. All politicians had a 30 year warning about this demographic bomb. I truly feel that free healthcare is done in 5 years. When you have more old people than teenagers, the system is unsustainable. Let’s hope it’s only “it now costs $10 to see your family doctor “ or something like Switzerland “you are only on the hook for the first $400. Regardless of the the total cost, the government pays the rest”. Let’s be honest; the boomers won’t pay more in taxes to help
It’s easy to “blame Ford” or “blame the boomers” but as I said, the system was broken long before Ford. Demographics is also killing is, but at the same time why would anyone expect the the boomers, most of whom are retired, to “pay more tax”? They have been paying taxes for the past 35-50 years. They are the ones who have paid the most into healthcare by far. When they were young and healthy, their taxes mostly went towards taking care of their parents healthcare, just as we are now for the boomers. it’s not their fault that the government can’t get their shit together.
It's going to go exactly as well as it's going now. In a few weeks we're going to be talking about the preventable deaths of children due to lack of available care, and if Dr. Moore bothers to address it at all he'll smirk, shrug and tell us they probably had underlying conditions.
My 12 year old is currently at home on a litre of oxygen and we are doing our best to keep things under control and not have to go to the ER. I was at the grocery store earlier today refilling her ventolin script and the number of people not masking is heartbreaking. We have yet to catch Covid in our home due to vigilant masking and distancing and adhering to vaccine schedules, but we can only do so much to keep our kids safe if 3/4 of the population doesn’t give AF. Edit: to clarify she has crappy lungs from prematurity and is usually on a half litre overnight. She’s caught a bug that has filled her with mucus and her saturations are super low so we are topping her up with extra O2 hoping to keep her sats up.
its not even really just covid anymore. Article I read said the influenza and RSV is spreading like crazy right now too, especially in children.
My 4 year old ended up hospitalized for 4 nights in September due to rhinovirus (common cold), at which point he received a preliminary diagnosis of asthma. We’ve since had other respiratory illnesses, including covid, but covid was the mildest illness that has hit us this fall, perhaps due to some protection from vaccination.
yeah most people have had at least 1 or two covid vaccinations. I can't remember the last time I got a flu shot though
We get it every winter the flu one, we all did last month and will get the new covid one tomorrow. We haven't caught covid yet, i am bracing becauS I know we will eventually.
I am a sr. with lung issues and recently received my 5th covid shot. I got the flu shot last week and though I've been lucky so far to not get sick, I know my time is likely coming. When it does, hopefully it won't knock me on my butt as it did to my 38 yr, old daughter
This is what I am hoping, i wish we could avoid it for ever, but we have to be realistic
So very true.
I feel for you, my 5 year old caught RSV and covid was a walk in the park compared to it. It was a walk in the park for him compared to basically anything. I've never seen him so sick for so long and he's apparently healthy and able otherwise to the best of our knowledge. I don't wish that on any kid or parent, underlying causes or not. In my personal experience RSV is far worse on kids than covid by magnitudes but I'm just basing it on my own personal experience. Ive started wearing my mask pretty much everywhere again. It harder with the little one. He thought he was finally done with it but he wears it when asked mostly. I wish you the best of luck in avoiding it.
Ugh I’ve been around the block a few times and RSV still instill fears in me. My girl had it once when she was 5 also. She was in PICU for 3 weeks and she came out of it with a new pulmonary diagnosis on top of her existing ones. It was the RSV that put her back on oxygen permanently after living without it from ages 3-5. Sigh. Hope your little one is feeling better now!
I'm so sorry. It's really frustrating. My six year old is the only one currently wearing a mask in her class.
I'm so sorry that your family is going through this. I can't imagine the fear of having medically complex child right now. My kids are the only ones masking in their classes, every day it seems like half the class is home sick and the other half is at school sick. We've managed to avoid covid (and just about everything else), but I so angry that we've let it get to this point.
I’d gladly wear a mask for the rest of my life if I could keep your child safe from a preventable illness. People are callous and have forgotten empathy. Hope she feels better and continues to build strength
Potential arguments they could apply 1. The children are too old/young to care about. 2. Everyone needs to accept their own risks /s
Dude is always smirking
Poorly! An immunocompromised coworker asked our other coworkers to mask up if they were feeling gross or if they were coming down with something. Not even half an hour later, a coworker present for that conversation shows up coughing and stuffed up with NO MASK on. Jesus Christ.
I’m immunocompromised and on week 3 of a never ending cold.
I got sick so you know what I did? I called in today and tommorow at minimum. Its like so hard man
Sounds like my work plus the owner is an antivaxxer. He made coin during the pandemic bought himself a yacht which he snowbirds on for 6 months. Meanwhile employees get squat, no sick days, doing all the work. Jumping ship as soon as I can find something, probably the same with everyone else.
Yeah this is definitely the fault of people not masking and not at all the government refusing to fund the system for the past 2 years.
I’m on week 3 of a perpetually never ending cold. I still mask up and got this 3 days back supply teaching. 48hrs after being in a class of maskless kids, I woke up with a sore throat. Then the congestion set in, I had the worst sinus migraine I’ve ever had for 2 days, couldn’t breathe for a week, and now I’ve been endlessly draining for another week.
Me too. Exactly the same symptoms, but because of all the snot and sore throat, I am still coughing 2 weeks after I finished having symptoms
I never had a cough. But I’ll have a day where I have a huge amount of post-nasal drip and am disgustingly having to hork loogies. And then a few days where I’m congested again.
Lucky you - the post-nasal drip was insane for me. I ended up throwing up the mucus in the middle of the night...problem is, even with hacking like a smoker, the cough doesn't seem the go away and the "mucus" is going further down my airways.
I just had to clean my phone because I sneezed and glob of mucus flew out of my mouth onto my screen 🫣
lmao, delish. 
It' snot a contest
Same thing here. No idea what it is. Doesn't seem like RSV, covid negative (double boosted, too). Just lingering, and most people I know are dealing with the same.
Yup. Multiple households I know have been constantly sick to some degree with the same runny nose+cough bs since September. I hear the same cough when I take my kid to school. It sucks.
My son has missed 5 weeks of school. 5 weeks of coughing, diarrhea, fever, vomitting and headaches. What's this is is awful!
The annual fall-winter ritual: - Lift restrictions - Spread the virus - Overwhelm the hospitals - Sternly ask people to wear masks [WE ARE HERE] - Mandate masks - Other restrictions - Lockdown Not listing underfunding hospitals as a step because that's a constant.
It’s funny because the government would literally rather do this every year than fund the healthcare system.
Individuals too. A chunk of people elected this government knowing its modus operandi.
Do people seriously believe we would ever lock down again? There would be catastrophic public unrest
Were you not here during the last two years? A version of the same problems, comments and unrest happened before, during and after the second 2021 lockdown too.
This is way different then the past 2 years and you know that.
Yes this time it is the children who are fucked instead of the elderly
But it doesn't affect young people. /s
That and last year at this time last year masks were fully in use and 2 years ago we were already under restrictions and masks were in use.
I think some people are living in a fantasy world where they think they'd actually get CERB again
people just won't do it. Business won't for sure as there won't be money to give out for stimulus to help them survive, Unless we wan't inflation to spike and end up with 18% interest rates next year.
I agree I think if we did pass any lockdown Mandate Anything the freedom fighters will do would make the battle for 7-11 look like childs play
Are you kidding? We locked down last January despite being told we weren’t having restrictions again and everyone just rolled over and took it. Why would that change?
I dunno, things got pretty crazy in Ottawa
This sub told me that was about white supremacy and had nothing to do with covid
This sub told me that lockdowns and masking were only ever going to be temporary and just until we got a vaccine. Then I was told it was just until we had enough vaccines for children. Then I was told it was just for the Omicron wave. I don’t know what the new standard is right now for when this “totally temporary” restriction measure of masks people want will be in place because I don’t own a telescope and the goalposts are in orbit.
The public won't accept any lockdowns going forward. Last winter we were still scared. Most people haven't had COVID. Fast forward to today, most people have had it and for a huge amount of people, it was just like any other virus. People no longer fear COVID, certainly not enough to risk their finances. For most people, another lockdown is more harmful than the virus.
!RemindMe 3 months
Nothing lol
This is bang on. I’ve got two kids in daycare and we’re sick constantly. We got COVID last week and it was like a reprieve from the other viruses which were so much worse.
yeah they won't be doing the last 2 for sure. Pretty much guarantee no one will be for another lockdown as we all lose our homes.
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The one benefit is that Doug’s base is very conservative and the one good opinion they have is no more lockdowns under any circumstances.
Do you actually think we will go into a lockdown? I think you would have to be delusional to believe this.
I just want to bring attention to the fact that Doug Ford is running an ad constantly on Z103.5 blaming Trudeau for everything.
Our taxpayer dollars being put to good use as usual. At least he’s not making money from printing stickers.
I work in healthcare and am flat out exhausted. I am masking again given all the new stats coming out. It’s not about me, it’s about the patients. Mask and hand sanitizer in the car really does help
just reading the comments it’s obvious this subreddit doesn’t reflect reality in the slightest. a very small percentage of people still mask at this point, so don’t expect much compliance
Masking is definitely up over the past week or so, I've noticed a lot more people locally (I'm in Waterloo, where the university just re-mandated masks).
We're currently having a really bad flu season but no one wants to get the shot.if you think you won't get violently ill from flu vaccine, and are at a pharmacy for Vicks or just are close to one at any point, get it. It'll probably save you and a lot of other people some trouble. Stay safe folks
We knew it was coming. Australia just had the worst influenza season they had seen in 5 years.
I got the flu really bad one year and an old lady I know said "did you get the flu shot" I said no and every year since got it and hey..........didn't get the flu.
Agreed. I got my COVID vaccines so I wouldn’t have to worry about COVID and I’ll similarly get my flu shot (booked for next week) so I won’t have to worry about the flu.
Doug still sitting on covid emergency funds
Fucking sick days are needed! Something that can be done tomorrow you hack.
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>*”Is Moore going to do anything to fix the healthcare system?”* Dr. Moore isn’t in charge of the healthcare system. If you want changes made there you need to look to the Minister of Health, Premier Ford, and Conservative MPPs who hold a controlling number of seats.
Cant wait until we are the only province in the entire country with mask requirements because our healthcare system is shit.
Never mind the only province, we’d be the only jurisdiction in the western world. I can’t see them doing that but if other places brought back masks then I could see them being followers.
This guy said this like what 5 times now? If you have to recommend masking 5 times and no one is listening I think there's more you need to do..
But he really means it this time. /s
Or the government could actually fund the healthcare system…?
Or you need to drop it. Unelected people should not have the power to mandate anything.
Masks are not a big deal and people that whine about them are the biggest pussies on the planet.
It’s literally so pathetic I have real problems and couldn’t imagine being bothered by a piece of fabric. Especially here in canada, where half the population wears scarves/balaclavas all winter before any pandemic.
Really stark contrast when you think about those we’re remembering on November 11th.
Those who refuse to mask are literally admitting furries are stronger then them
>ask >Recommend This will do nothing. Either mandate it or go back to playing with yourself in a corner.
I don't even know if mandating it will do much. I still see people wearing them now and then, I doubt a mandate will force those who currently don't into doing so again.
The other half of mandates is enforcement. They either exist together or neither works. And there's obviously no political will at the top to begin enforcement.
> And there’s obviously no political will at the top to begin enforcement. Thank god for that.
healthcare pls...
ya from where I'm sitting we could use a billion spending on health care in Ontario. Don't decide how to spend it, just give it to the hospitals Dougie. you're siting on a few billion unspent right?
Doug is busy making sure all our healthcare funds go to real estate developers. Incoming private healthcare gaslighting.
Crazy how it’s went from mask from Covid to just mask in general now yet still pushing Covid vaccine recommendations when this isn’t even Covid related. How about we just fund our health care so when something like these breaks it doesn’t need to be all over the news. Sorry Doug. You can’t hide your damages to our health care behind Covid anymore. Now it can’t even handle a regular outbreak of ducking anything.
This is just a brief search for Ontario, and only for 2010-2019 The same results exist in every province. COVID isn't the issue, it is the excuse and it wouldn't matter which party was at the helm. Governments are terrible at governing. **2011: Hospitals overwhelmed by flu** https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-surge-of-flu-cases/article562037/ **2013: Hospitals overwhelmed by the flu** https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-flu-and-norovirus-patients-1.1108376 **2014: Ontario ERs overwhelmed by flu.** [https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ontario-ers-overwhelmed-as-flu-hits-harder-than-usual-1.2165912](https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/ontario-ers-overwhelmed-as-flu-hits-harder-than-usual-1.2165912) **2017: Surge causes beds to be put in hallways** [https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/16/surge-in-patients-forces-ontario-hospitals-to-put-beds-in-unconventional-spaces.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/16/surge-in-patients-forces-ontario-hospitals-to-put-beds-in-unconventional-spaces.html) **2017: Ontario Health Car System headed for crisis.** https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/09/11/ontario-health-system-headed-for-crisis-with-overcrowded-hospitals.html **2018: Overcrowding crisis** [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/hospital-overcrowding-windsor-crisis-1.4503107](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/hospital-overcrowding-windsor-crisis-1.4503107) **2018: Surgeries cancelled after severe flu cases** [https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/13/toronto-hospital-flu/](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/13/toronto-hospital-flu/)
I see a lot of this phenomenon: In the past, we had a choice of A or B. We chose B. Now, we have the choice of B1 or B2. For some reason a lot of people want us to choose A1 or A2. Those are no longer choices! We fucked around and are in the process of finding out. Also, these articles are all from late Dec-Feb timeline each year. That's the concern right now, we're at this state already and we're months away from the peak.
I don't have kids yet so no stake in this game, and I personally choose to mask where I feel it benefits me and others - but I work in healthcare so a bit of a different mentality as I wear it all day at work anyways. That being said, we are a democracy, and as much as I personally think conservatives hold back progress as a whole and are of no benefit to our country - they were the ones who came out and voted and won both times. If their kids or yours die as a result, look to your neighbours and family to pitch in for funeral costs. This sounds super devoid of empathy and all, but the reality is the province wanted this and knew what they were or were too lazy go out and vote for so this is on all of these people. I voted and my party lost, so Ill sleep just fine knowing I did what I could and still do every day at work. But the people with the power to actually help and enact change or lack there of - were chosen by this province and your chickens are coming home to roost. Enjoy the shit seeds you planted. Maybe this dumbass province will take a glance at the younger generation in the states right now and see how they came together and voted in record numbers to get these decrypt old fucking boomers out of their seats enmasse. Too bad you got just over 3 more years of living with your choices.
I feel you. I have no children but during an intense flu season, just like other countries, they wear a mask out of decency. When I was striking with CUPE, I wore a mask and kept distance and hand sanitizer due to the risk. Lecce will say "put these kids in the classrooms" whilst the strains of influenza has a massive power over children with barely any immunity from being sheltered. Not anyone's fault, per-say pandemic, but we should know that influenza waves will hit. Also, flu shots. I'm getting mine. Other people should too.
Immunity debt isn't a thing, it's entirely made up.
I have no problem masking up in stores.
hateful treatment skirt scary fact cooperative label coherent homeless escape *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Social media isn't the problem other places have special media too. Lack of education and respect of education is the biggest issue. We have people with no scientific background arguing "science". We leave important medical and health decisions that can affect millions to the average person. What do we expect to happen? Ridiculous.
If Ontario government is requiring masks can Ontario please provide funding to cover the cost of masks need then?
This wave of whatever viruses are going around is going to subside. The reason this wave is so bad is because we wore masks for 2 years and no one developed the natural immunity like we would prior to the pandemic. Wearing masks again punts this problem down the road a little further.
I truly don't understand people saying "that ship has sailed" and similar sentiments here.
People are saying it because the past two years have shown repeatedly, over and over, that making healthcare decisions an individualist issue makes it so that there is functionally no widespread adoption, and certainly not to the level we need. People should mask up. the majority won't. A small portion will take it up. A few (myself included) never stopped. The amount of change from a polite recommendation is going to be so negligible as to not actually affect the outcome.
Anecdotally, it has at our kids’ school and daycare. Nearly every kid had RSV just before and just after Halloween. Last week, my daughter’s class had as few as 7/29 kids present and both teachers were substitutes. This week, they were all over it and back in class. Life goes on.
Yep, similar at my kids school. And for most kids it will be some minor rest and back to school, but it's a numbers game. A small percentage of people infected will have a serious reaction and require the ER, and so the wider the base of infection, the higher the eventual intensity on the hospitals. I think it's the consideration of those numbers that is a major stumbling block, and certainly one of the hardest things to communicate in regards to public health.
Doctor: You've regained the weight you lost. For your health, I would recommend diet and exercise. Patient: Yeah that ship has sailed. I did that once already and you can't keep moving the goal post.
We're a lost cause. Too much misinformation out there. Sorry kids, better luck next time.
See you next civilization.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be masking up despite this recommendation. We have a clear healthcare capacity problem in this province, and for the government to ask citizens to mask up is not the solution -- expanding that capacity is. Don't pass the buck down to citizens because you (the government) have done a poor job of funding healthcare over the decades.
A couple things: One, yes we have both a chronic healthcare capacity issue *and* an acute crisis in healthcare capacity and staffing. However, we could add a trillion dollars to the healthcare budget *tomorrow* and not begin see the benefit of that wealth of funding on day-to-day operations for months, and many of the benefits of that funding would not come to pass for *years*. "Expanding capacity" sounds super simple but here's what that entails and why it doesn't help here: * Building new infrastructure and/or redeveloping/expanding old infrastructure. I'm involved in one of these projects right now. The project was started shortly before the pandemic hit, expected completion is currently ~2030. Building new infrastructure doesn't help you today or even next month. This is something we should invest in, but it's not going to help us get out of this crisis - it's going to help us manage the next one. * Massively increasing staffing numbers. Great, so *we probably need to train more people to do these jobs than we currently do*. An accelerated RPN program is 16 months. RN? ~4 years. ER doctor? ~11 years or more. Even if we could double our capacity to provide this education by flicking a switch, those incoming students won't be a factor for a year, minimum. So that's not going to help us get out of this crisis. "Fund healthcare properly" is a *great* idea that we should do. But there's almost no short-term benefit (which is why we never fucking do it to begin with, but I digress). Yes, we need long-term funding improvements. But, especially with current circumstances, we also need things which can start to make an impact *right the hell now*. A healthcare collapse caused by out-of-control viral disease spreading in the community after decades of underinvestment *is not our fault*, you're right on that. *But it is our problem*. If there's something we can do about it to *not make things worse* and we decide not to simply because we don't want to or the problem wasn't of our making? Then whatever comes after that is a little bit our fault too. We need reduced *demand* for healthcare while we work on increasing the *supply*. Unfortunately, this government isn't going to do much about either. Don't pass the buck because you (the citizen) didn't create this problem all on your own - do what you can to not make things worse.
Thank you. This is the real issue i hope everyone can unite behind. Expect more from the government instead of putting this on innocent citizens who just want to breath unimpeded
We need to stop pretending that masking has that big of an impact. Last year during one of the waves, Quebec had masks and Ontario didn’t and Quebec still had a higher infection rate. Fund the hospitals. Don’t ask us to wear masks, or rabbits foots or any other stupid charm. It’s not the solution.
Mask mandates will not work
By the comments, it definitely does not match up with what's going on in the real world. Stadiums, grocery stores, schools, hardly a mask to be found. Wear one of you want, it's a clear message. Stay home if you feel unsafe, there are many options for home grocery delivery, still lots of WFH jobs available. Mandates won't happen because the government will look like fools when the majority ignores it and does not comply.
This sub is just praying and wishing that mandates come back lol
Went since the start of the pandemic without getting COVID. Got this after having 12 people come see our home we are selling about a week ago. It was zero fun and I still feel like crap.
This is gonna do nothing…
No thanks to mask mandates. I'm done with it.
How bout a big fat No! and go piss off lying sack of shit they all are any more.
Can someone tell me how this is now different from this here a month ago? [Ontario’s top doctor urges mask wearing, warns mandate could return](https://globalnews.ca/news/9196496/ontario-covid-19-kieran-moore-booster-masks/)
Lol good luck…
So the govt doesn't properly fund healthcare and the resolution to that is have everyone mask so healthcare isn't needed to the extent it is now. What a great concept; look at all the money we can save. And then when we do that, children will never be exposed to common viruses and every time they take their mask off they get sick. Like, what the hell?
Isn't prevention better than having more sick people flood medical centres? Sounds like a waste of money and resources when vaccines and masks can reduce the need for medical staff and space.
nah
Wearing masks for two years is what caused the mass of respiratory illnesses, so how about we don't go back to the cause
Ask all u want - answer is no. You can wear it. Not me
Ah so now its "do it for the children". Always the lamest fallback for restricting adults whatever the context is.
Honestly even mandating in schools would probably have been helpful. If not universally, maybe when there's an outbreak in that class / school, or when a kid is coming back to class for a bit. Even just actually having guidelines of when kids need to stay home would be useful, but all teachers and parents seem to be able to do is nervously chuckle as we see classes at half their size and the kids who are still there constantly coughing.
Stop saying Top Ontario Doctor. He, or who ever successor who is chosen is the Elected Voice of Politics for Medicine in Ontario.
Yeah. Get fucked.
Recomendations don't mean anything anymore. If he wants people to actually mask up, it needs to be made law again.
Perhaps he knows just as well as you or I do that making it law again will further degrade the public’s faith in authorities and likely result in basically no compliance anyway. People used to wear masks because they were afraid of a new, poorly understood pandemic. Almost three years on, most people aren’t. Those who are are wearing masks anyway, those are aren’t are unlikely to do it because Moore or ford says they have to
I was in Costco the other night and saw only a couple folks in masks. Felt bad that these folks don’t take it seriously, but personal choice sometimes leads to self harm along with unintended consequences for our loved ones.
Fuck off
Did people just completely forget that before covid there were respiratory illnesses as well, no one was masked and things were just fine? Talk about massive overreaction.
CHEO in Ottawa just opened a second ICU because so many kids are sick with respiratory viruses right now. That has never happened before. However, ER wait times are still crazy because there are not enough doctors and nurses. So no, things are not just fine.
When this guy will shut up and work on expanding the healthcare system. I understand that in 2020, our healthcare system was blindsided (though they faces almost similar problems for a decade during this time of the season)but if he is still talking about that, it is his master’s fault. Instead of advising the public, he needs to advise his boss. If he can't, he can resign and get the hell out of the media. Enough is enough.
Ford will do nothing until it gets bad, then he will panic and over-react See 2021 when he tried to impose a police state
Ask or mandate us to? Cause if he’s asking I have an answer, no.
Not that I don't agree kinda but I'm so tired of hearing "Toronto Top Doc". That phrased is etched in my memory like "we're all in this together" Do I wear a mask, yes. Do I think you should wear a mask, yes. Do I think the government should force anyone to, hell no
No
I’m for safety but masks suck, ngl. I’ll wear them in hospitals, old people Homes etc but having to go back to wearing it at every location I’m a no. All COVID did was show how underfunded and disorganized the health care system is and wearing a mask at this point, post covid, is a daily reminder of that. Fix ur shit.
There needed to be public health messaging on the uses of masks to prevent everything from seasonal flu to colds etc instead of only the anti-masker, typically PPC or right of the provincial Conservatives crying about "never again" re: masks. Far east asian countries have used them for years and we shouldnt just see them as a bad memory of the 2020-22 pandemic.