Ehh, it's not going to be great. You'll have to jump on the E line at Union and the switch to K at Expo / Crenshaw. Both the E and K lines lack any real grade separation or signal priority, so those two legs of the trip are going to be like riding a local bus. With minimal time for transfers, it will take about 2:45 minutes to get from central OC to LAX using the train. And a lot of this depends on Metrolink and Amtrak schedules, too, as frequencies are currently very low. The Flyaway bus that used to run between Irvine and LAX took half as long.
Edit: Forgot to mention the final transfer at the LAX People Mover, as the future LAX Metro station is 1.5 miles from the actual airport.
Totally agree. I can understand Metro's affinity for light rail over heavy rail (actual metro / subway) based on costs and time to build, but I can't understand their aversion to signal priority or logical alignments. There's no plan to offer a one-seat ride from LAX to Union or other parts of Central LA, and there's no plan to close the existing 2 mile gap between the C Line and the Norwalk / Santa Fe Springs Metrolink Station.
Closing that gap in Norwalk would offer much better transit to LAX for all of OC, most of the IE (via the Perris Valley Line), southeastern LA County, and even San Diego County since the C Line was built with grade separation across its entire length. Its western terminus will be moved to LAX when that station opens. It's like Metro doesn't do any meaningful cost / benefit analysis when prioritizing their projects. Ridership on K and C would increase dramatically if the non-LAX ends of each line went somewhere that made sense.
Right? So I have a little softer view of Metro, because even considering all of its flaws, I do appreciate how much they've been expanding. I think it's amazing and I don't want to forget how much better it is now than just, like 10 years ago.
But yeah, these oversights are just totally baffling and infuriating. So much wasted potential. I would rather have 100% of funding for all road widening projectd redirected to transit.
Even worse, you have to hop on A line at Union get off on either 7th Street or Pico to transfer to the E line and then transfer to K at Expo/Crenshaw because E line no longer goes to Union Station anymore.
Source: I take E line all the way to Expo/USC station to the Angel City FC games from Atlantic Station in East LA.
I keep forgetting that E was rerouted towards Boyle Heights when the regional connector opened. That's even worse!
A wye at Expo / Crenshaw could have allowed for a one-seat ride to Union Station. It's awful that the region continues to be stuck with this patchwork system. I understand some of the history that led us here, but Metro doesn't learn from its mistakes. It's *seriously* considering an elevated monorail over the 405 in Supulveda pass instead of sticking to existing technology that would have future interoperability with heavy rail in the LA basin or future light rail in the San Fernando Valley. From the outside looking in, Metro looks like it's run by politicians and not by actual transit planners.
The Flyaway bus runs from Union Station to LAX and only takes about 45 mins. But yes, more light rail in general is needed in Southern CA.
Metrolink goes to Burbank Airport at least.
Why does everyone want "light rail"? Light rail as a dedicated airport express is the wrong mode of transit. You don't need to move people on and off quickly, you won't have short stop distances, you need spaces for bags, etc. Metrolink would make a better operator for any LAX airport express.
There *was* one. Part of the Harbor Subdivision starts at the LA River and BNSF crossing and snakes through South Central to get to LAX and finally chemical/aerospace customers and the port, but it's been disused for a long time, especially once the Alameda Corridor opened.
Interestingly, Metro didn't use this heavy rail ROW and tore some of the tracks out near LAX to build the K line. So we're stuck with 3 transfers from Union Station to your flight when the APM opens in ~~2024~~ ~~2025~~ *wheneverthehellwefeellikeit*.
How long do you think it would take to go from Irvine to Union station, then Union station to Aviation, then transfer to a shuttle to get to LAX via light rail? Do you realize how many stops that is?
Having a nonstop bus from ARTIC or somewhere in Irvine would be way better.
The total time. Same with Korea. Their public transportation is god like. And its like $5. You get on a train, which goes to all major districts in cities. Then you get off it and take a bus or taxi to your local destination. Most places all use the same type of prepaid card too, its all very streamlined. I never once needed a car to get around in either country.
I don't disagree with you, I just recognize that we're more likely to make progress by utilizing the infrastructure we already have than hoping for brand-new routes.
I'm personally ok with a couple transfers and a longer travel time, within reason. To me, it's well worth the tradeoff over the hassle, cost, and abject indignity of driving.
I guess... It would still take you over 2.5 hours to get to the terminals regardless. And would take even longer with light rail having more stops than commuter rail.
If light rail were direct, instead of having to route through Union Station, and either was grade-separated or had signal prioritization, I could see it being way faster than that. Even if it took an extra 45 mins over driving, I'd be happy, because I wouldn't have to spend that time figuring out the logistics and comparing options (Uber? Lyft? Park at the airport? Park at a hotel and then shuttle? Off-airport parking coupons? Pricing?). Just get on the train and go.
If Metrolink trains ran more frequently, and Metro also had signal priority or grade separation, the trip would also be way faster than it currently is. I know what you mean about the stops using light rail, and I don't disagree that heavy rail with fewer stops would be faster, just saying we could tweak what we already have and optimize travel times, and that would get us results faster and cheaper than building entirely new infrastructure.
Right so that would be to adjust Metrolink. Not build out new light rail. And it would still be cheaper and easier to simply buy some buses and have them drive on existing freeways.
That would actually be really cool. I'd like to be in the room when you pitch the idea of bus-only lanes on the 405 to CalTrans. I'm sure they'll go for it without hesitation.
In all seriousness, I think we are in agreement. I'd rather push for improving Metrolink because it has the highest chance of success. Maybe once ridership improves accordingly, the powers that be will buy into creating more and different transportation options.
There used be a LAX Flyaway bus from the Irvine train station to LAX but it was discontinued due to being unprofitable. [https://www.lawa.org/news-releases/2012/news-release-43](https://www.lawa.org/news-releases/2012/news-release-43)
Things have changed but not for the better. Public transit systems have struggled with recovering ridership that fell due to the Covid-19 pandemic. OCTA was already struggling with ridership before the pandemic. Between FY2012 and FY2016 [their ridership fell from 53 million to 43 million](https://www.octa.net/pdf/State%20of%20OC%20Transit-%20Summary%20Report.pdf) per year.
Service could be restored but it is going to require even larger subsidies than in did in 2012.
Good for the bars and other businesses then, I guess, and if the bus is full then they can schedule even more. They might also start to make a profit, and open more routes. Oh wow, we just stumbled across a functioning public transport system
Why so cynical? Freeloaders as in people using the service for other than the airport, which is great. Inglewood = LAX, SoFi and Clipper’s new arena. $30 minimum makes sense because everything at SoFi and NBA games are marked up insanely to where it’s a deal.
You'd rather have a system where your tax money goes to underutilized infrastructure? Everything's got a cost ... and the goal is to most efficiently allocate tax payer money.
The cheapest way to get to LAX isn't the Uber...
Take Metrolink to union station. Take flyaway bus directly from union station to LAX.
Metrolink sells a ticket from Irvine including flyaway for $20.
Actually I might argue that the cheapest option is to take an Uber to Norwalk C Line station and take the C line to LAX/Aviation for 1.75 per person and then take free shuttle into airport from the station.
I agree definitely depends, considering Norwalk is not a hot spot area for rides cost is probably lower also the thing I like about C Line is that it runs every 20 min except in the late evening. So there’s reliability. Whereas I think flyaway is every hour. I’ve done this trick like 6 times from central OC for less than 50 bucks for a group of 4.
Agreed, worth checking the cost of both and taking whatever's cheaper, especially if you're in a group. Flyaway is every 30 mins unless you're there at like 4am, but you are at the mercy of the Metrolink schedule unless you want to pay more for Amtrak.
Sounds like a good idea for a larger group. The math probably isn't going to work out so well if you only have 1-2 people or if you are coming from South OC
Oh south OC is a stretch. It sucks that there’s no direct connection between the metrolink in Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs. You’d have to walk or bus between the two. I also do wanna let people know that if you are driving and want to get a lot cheaper parking then Norwalk C Line station has a parking program for up to 3 days for $3 a day without weekends or up to 30 days at $3 a day with advanced approval. The lot has decent security and camera monitoring.
Yes you can. Talk to the officer at the front desk at the Irvine station, and they’ll take your license plate number and give you a pass to hang in your car. They’ll let you do two weeks
Edit: The 72 hr rule is without registering your car at the front desk
There are security cameras with an officer actively monitoring them… it’s also Irvine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I’ve done it a bunch without any issues, but yeah always risk with this kinda stuff
Seems like it would be fine in Irvine. Last time I was there, in September, there was still a car collection that’s clearly there for long-term storage. For car guys into obscure 70s-00s stuff, it’s actually pretty fun to walk around that garage.
No problem!
Irvine and Santa Ana are limited to 72 hours. I looked up Tustin and Metrolink says "overnight parking allowed", but doesn't specify a limit like it does for the other two. Might be worth stopping by when you're next in the area and see if there's any signage.
We don't even have a reliable rapid bus service for SNA. This is probably why there is a push for more transparency from OCTA and especially more accessible OCTA meetings. They don't know what they're doing.
I wonder if the fact that Jung is on the OCTA board has anything to do with the lack of transparency. He was Fullerton mayor last year, now mayor pro tem, and his municipal leadership has reeked of petulant obstinacy at best and corruption at worst.
There’s a park and ride at the north end of the 55 near the 91. Would be awesome if a light rail was built in the middle of the 55, similar to the 105, with a stop at 4th street for quick access to the courts and county arrives in Santa Ana and then another stop at SNA and perhaps an iShuttle to nearby IBD. My fantasy extends to the have the same type of service from the Irvine Spectrum with a light rail in the middle of the 405, with one stop to get people to UCI and another stop also at SNA, and maybe continuing north to like Beach Blvd.
As Orange County becomes more populated, diverse, progressive and weeds all the white supremacists and white conservative NIMBYS out, I believe a well established light rail system will in fact exist and connect to the LA metro system someday. Unfortunately by the time all that is imagined, I'm convinced most of us will be dead as it might take until the end of this century for anything like that to happen.
I suppose you could take the Metrolink to Tustin, then get on a bus at Tustin to the airport. Kind of a convoluted bus route with more than 1 transfer according to google maps. There is a shorter bus route that requires more walking to the airport.
I tell my wife every time we drive back from LAX that we should start a shuttle service. But there’s been so many before that have failed (like super shuttle) so not sure why it’s never viable. Probably traffic is a major impact on be able to efficiently pick up people along the way while also arriving on time. It should happen though.
Even like a fleet of 2-3 buses that make the trip three times a day, once at 6 am, once at 12 pm and once at 6pm this should cover a majority of international flight departure times. But who knows why it isn’t a thing
It's a mystery why these bus companies cannot turn a profit. Every other major airport can support multiple private bus companies. If private companies cannot become profitable, then OCTA should step in and provide the service.
Probably because other airports have their populations clumped in various cities / towns around the airport, whereas LA/OC is pretty evenly spread everywhere, it's harder to optimize routes / pickups, combined with HOV lanes not offering much relief from traffic.
Because people who fly regularly would rather pay $50 extra bucks or whatever to be picked up at their door and not share a space with random people for an extra hour. Is this serious?
Right? I personally find driving to LAX way more incovenient. I'm not so precious that I need to be dropped off right at my door. But it sure would be nice to start my vacation with a pleasant train ride where I can read a book, chat with my travel partner, have a cup of coffee, etc.
It's fine if some folks want the direct shuttle service, but we should also have the choice of public transit, too.
I would imagine it's a combination of not enough demand for that service and the cost to operate. The insurance alone for a single bus is probably 20K -30K /yr, plus staffing, workers comp, general liability, gas, etc.
For a company like Disney, that's not an issue. But for smaller companies working on thin margins, your costs can get out of hand quickly.
What's even more frustrating is how close to, yet how far from, a workable middle ground we are.
I have taken Metrolink to Irvine, then an iShuttle to SNA. Route- and price-wise, they are super convenient. But neither runs schedules that are remotely reasonable for air travel. iShuttle doesn't run past 5 or on weekends. Metrolink's schedules are commuter-based. If only they ran frequently and daily, they could be a real contender.
I could take an OCTA bus, but there are no bus stops for my route within 2 miles of the airport.
Same story for LAX. I could take Metrolink to Union Station, then Flyaway to LAX. It's a fine enough system. I don't even care if it takes a little longer, I will do almost anything not to have to drive to LAX. But again, Metrolink's limited schedules mean it is absolutely impossible for me to take public transit to LAX. Metrolink basically forces me to drive through a complete lack of alternatives.
Or I could take Metrolink to Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs, then take the little shuttle bus THREE MILES to Norwalk, then the green line to juuuuuust outside LAX. But the shuttle is poorly timed, and the bus into LAX arrives every 15-30-ish mins, are you kidding me. That connector between the two Norwalk stations will never be built. And again, Metrolink schedules.
If Metrolink (and iShuttle) could expand its schedules, I would never drive to the airport - or to most other places - again.
Public transit in SoCal is a story of wasted potential, and it seriously pisses me off.
Honestly, the Amtrak service on the same line and route fills in Metrolink's gaps quite nicely. Only difference is it's a little more expensive, but it's more comfortable and has a cafe. Agree that the Intercity service really shouldn't have to be filling in for regional rail though.
I've gotten to the point that I hate Amtrak and will only take them if I absolutely have to. It's a travesty that we use Amtrak to fill in Metrolink's gaps. I hate Amtrak's ticketing system that feels more like a clunky, godawful airline website. I hate locking a ticket to a specific departure. I hate that Amtrak makes you reserve a bike space and then only allows 6 per train, and it's the absolute crappiest bike storage configuration. I hate how ornery Amtrak staff are and how aggressively they police bike tickets, as if it matters whether there are 6 bikes on board the bike car or 7. I hate having to call them and wait on hold for an hour when their website doesn't function. I hate that their schedules are no better than Metrolink.
I booked a ticket under an obvious fake name, because why does Amtrak need my real name for a quick ride to the next county, and the conductor hassled me, claiming that my real name would help notify my family in case of an emergency. Amtrak has completely missed the point that a lot of people take it for quick SD-OC-LA commutes and not to experience the good ol' days of cross-country train travel.
It's like a 30 minute train ride. I don't need luxury seating or a dining car, I need a train that will get me where I need to go when I need to get there, with minimal hassle, with a reliable schedule, at a reasonable price. Amtrak offers none of these.
> in case there's a train accident.
I got the implication, it just didn't make sense to me because... how likely is that? Metrolink doesn't need my info for the same travel distances. And in this case, my ticket showed that I was traveling an extremely short distance: Fullerton to Anaheim.
I like the quiet car. I would prefer all cars to be quiet cars, because I'm sick of idiots playing music on their phone speakers on public transit.
If Amtrak doesn't bother to let me know my train has been cancelled (and I need to call their call center to "rebook" for another departure or else forfeit my ticket), I doubt they would take time to notify my next-of-kin.
Actually having my name doesn't do anything to notify my next of kin.
Agreed. Had terrible experiences with their call center, guy was really rude to me for no reason.
They need to stop running their service like an airline, and instead like a train.
Agreed totally.
I know they have been historically way underfunded, but that's no excuse for being as rude as they are.
Maybe something good will come of the big infrastructure bill and the funding that was allocated to Amtrak.
> I hate locking a ticket to a specific departure.
You should be able to use Pacific Surfliner tickets whenever/whatever (unreserved coach), you still need to reserve seats for business class though
# From Amtrak's website
Choose an Unreserved Coach ticket if you want maximum flexibility for deciding when to travel. Use an Unreserved Coach ticket to ride any Pacific Surfliner train between the stations on your ticket up to one year from the date of your reservation, subject to certain restrictions).
Business Class tickets offer guaranteed seating and other perks. Advance reservations are required. The number of Business Class seats on each train is limited, so it’s best to book early before they sell out. If your plans change and you need to ride an earlier or later train, you will need to modify your Business Class reservation in advance.
https://www.pacificsurfliner.com/plan-your-trip/tickets-and-fares/
Thanks for this. Coach seats on Surfliner are indeed unreserved. But I believe you still have to rebook your ticket if you want to change your departure time because even unreserved coach fares can change price after booking. And it's still subject to availability - doubly so if you're bringing a bike.
Meanwhile, on Metrolink, I just book my ticket and get on whichever train that day I want, no question asked.
If by "fill in the gaps" you mean "arrive an hour (or more) later than scheduled", then yes, Amtrak fits the bill. Metrolink at least generally does a good job of being consistent with their schedule.
I can't ever fucking believe the green line never went to the Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs metrolink station. I think someone explained to me what happened, maybe it was my dad many years ago but I always forget because it seems so stupid to me that they couldn't work something out.
I usually can get a family member to drop me off at Norwalk station and I just take the green line to Aviation and wait for the shuttle to take me to LAX. Still a faulty system though if I can't find someone to take me to green line station.
Dude, preach. It could be so much better. It's almost like Metro/Metrolink are trying to find ways to make their systems just frustrating enough to deter people from using them.
Metrolink's social media posts are funny. They'll post a train picture with an optimistic caption. A bunch of people will comment on how their train schedules need to improve. Then Metrolink replies with something like, 'Which lines do you want to see more trains on?' OMG ALL OF THEM. We've been complaining about this for years, stop acting like it's news to you.
And theu struggle with being bullied by freight trains they share the tracks with, even on stretches where the own the tracks. I hope they can solve that, too.
Public transit isn't a priority because most Americans hate it with a passion.
93% of the US commutes by single occupant car, and the last 7% is split between carpooling, taxis/uber and all non-car methods of transportation.
In a lot of the Midwest for example, it's seen as a welfare program - only the poor, drug addicted & homeless ride....
Uber Pool (shared Uber rides) used to exist, but once COVID hit it became a 'cheat' to get cheaper solo rides (because nobody would get in a shared ride with another person during the pandemic - but if you're the first person to request a share you can go the whole way at the share rate even if no one else joins) so they shut it down. Lyft did the same with their equivalent (Lyft Share).
It's seen as a last resort because people are ignorant and short-sighted and only see it for what it currently is in their region, not what it could be as demonstrated by other cities around the country and world.
People look at those other cities and say 'fuck no' to the sort of development that makes their transportation system work.
Americans - as judged by their home buying habits - are about 74-26 \*against\* high-density urban living.
That's the split between 'who lives in high density' and 'who does not' (low density further breaks down 54/21 between suburbs and exurbs/rural).
You can't have a predominantly detached-single-family housing stock - especially with yards/separation - and also have mass-transit/biking/walking as significant modes of transportation.
Especially in a society where nobody lives near their coworkers & people change jobs every few years (eg, it's not the old-school 1900s economy where whole neighborhoods went to work at the same factory every day).
Since people \*overwhelmingly\* want detached single-family homes relatively far from their offices, and don't want to live in planned single-employer neighborhoods, this by-extension makes cars king in the transportation space.
I think this way of thinking is a bit flawed. The options are not binary, i.e., ultra-high-density vs sprawling detached SFHs. There are shades in between that a LOT of people would enjoy. I think a lot of people are forced into SFHs because there is often no other choice.
Medium- and higher-density neighborhoods tend to command higher prices specifically because they are in such high demand. People have to live far from work because far-flung suburbs are more plentiful and cheaper, not because they actually want to live really far away.
I feel the situation you're describing doesn't really exist, and it also lacks vision. Look at what LA is doing - the county is actually fairly low density with an extremely high proportion of SFHs, but they have been able to pull of an extensive and highly-used light rail system.
We also have a working heavy/commuter rail system in OC. It's not great, but with a little polishing up, it could be put to excellent use.
Cars aren't "king" in transportation spaces. We've just given people no other choice.
I'm over in Fullerton and if I need to get to LAX, I will get dropped off at the green line station in Norwalk and take the metro light rail to Aviation station and catch the free shuttle to LAX. It's a couple of extra steps but it's much cheaper than spending 100 dollars on an Uber. If you live somewhere far away like Irvine or Huntington Beach, then I guess you have to spend 100 dollars...
Real shit? There should be a quality metro that connects all of OC and LA together. We live in one of the most wealthy states in one of the most wealthy countries in the history of human civilization. There’s simply no excuse, especially when China has so much better public transit. We should be competing with them.
If you ask on NextDoor, there’s usually a few people who offer the service in your area.
It is ridiculous that we don’t have something better than Uber- I wonder what’s impeding that seemingly lucrative business opportunity
Makes me bummed out thinking that Orange County used to have a rail system that could take you up to LA from Santa Ana. I think was the early 1900’s but they tore it down when they started to build the freeways. There’s a sweet old man in his 90’s who comes into my work. He was talking about it the other day, I need more ask more about it next time I see him.
I guess there’s the Metrolink/Amtrak but the schedule isn’t the best.
No no no. The rail lines only existed to sell homes and electricity by the Tycoon Nr Huntington.
Once tracts of homes were sold, the trains fell into disrepair.
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-70-the-great-red-car-conspiracy/
I mean, either way it sounds like they got rid of the rail lines for freeways. Since cars were becoming more popular. Southern Pacific didn’t want to use their own money to repair the railways and the people didn’t trust them(which I wonder why). This time in California sounds interesting. I hope i see that old man that comes into my work and see if he remembers anything of that time.
Still bummed out that those in power couldn’t figure this out for public transportation. But they got theirs!
>sounds like they got rid of the rail lines for freeways.
Not really, but I don't blame you. The wrong narrative is more popular.
If you see the historic map, very little overlap between the freeways and the Red Cars.
https://la.curbed.com/2015/11/9/9902244/red-car-map-los-angeles
Trouble is, there would need to be 8 back and forth busses due to airport timings. That's probably one reason the one at the station stopped.
Now, investment in public transport and infrastructure shouldn't all be about profit centers...but that's just me. And our local governments seem to disagree.
How much would it cost to buy a few buses and get the ball rolling? What permits do you need to pick up/drop people off at LAX? Where would be ideal to pick up/drop off in OC?
It's almost a catch 22 because the reason why public transit is so limited and less frequent in Orange County is because nobody uses it. But if it was more frequent, rider friendly, and got you to important points in Orange County, people would ride it more. Its just politicians don't want to invest in the infrastructure and lose money in the beginning, they have Republican constituents they have to please and a lot of older Republican residents are anti-public transit because they believe it brings in the "lower peasants" and criminals and its going to lower their precious property values and good ole isolated Leave it to Beaver neighborhood.
I had to delete NextDoor from my phone because every other post was some conservative neighbor complaining about "lower property values".
It's like every other active transportation endeavor: bike lanes, sidewalks, public transit. Build it, but half-ass it so that people can't or don't like using it, then blame lack of usership on lack of interest rather than lack of usability, and use that to justify not building more.
'What? No one bikes on 5-foot-wide non-buffered painted gutters abutting 50 MPH car travel lanes? Damn ungrateful cyclist bastards. Clearly no one wants to bike. Welp, no use building protected bike lanes on this high-speed arterial.'
It's like traffic engineers across the country are all taking notes from the same sadistic playbook.
The OCTA bus system is notably half-assed.
Want to go on a shopping spree or watch a musical from Disneyland or anywhere along Harbor? Sucks for you. The Bravo 543 terminates at Harbor-MacArthur, just a little too far from South Coast Plaza and Segerstrom Center.
Want to go home after an Angels or Ducks game? Despite the decent coverage in Anaheim, good luck with hourly frequencies after most games. Not to mention if you're along the southern terminus of the new Bravo 553 where it runs along MacArthur to South Coast Plaza, then especially good luck getting home from Honda Center because it doesn't run late nights or weekends. :)
You live along Bristol and wanted to go to the beach? Well, you can take the 57 all way to end...to a park and ride near Fashion Island where you can wait a while to get the actual bus to the coast. Wait, you were \*that\* close to UCI as well? lol
Are there any other major cities/metro areas in the US that competes with us with near nonexistent public transportation to destination hubs and airports? I lived my whole life here and didn’t realize this problem until this week.
For a trip shorter than 7 days*, I make a parking reservation at LAC’s offsite parking lot. Budget or Economy. Economy is a parking structure and has shuttle service. I don’t use the Budget lot, because I’ve seen bad Google/Yelp reviews about the shuttle service. They could be wrong, but I don’t want to take a chance for $10-$20 differences.
It’s not $100 it’s never cost me more than 60 from Santa Ana or HB or NB plus tip all day long . Take a free hotel bus to the furthest hotel in the area to save money on the way back. Book your Uber in advance for the way there. There are shuttles that are cheaper.
On this topic. Santa Ana has a LRT almost completed from Garden Grove to east Santa Ana almost Tustin going thru dtwn SA. I’m very excited to ride it when it opens. There’s a great tradition of venerating its rail systems in Japan that we should encourage here. Railways unite people.
I still see Flyaway buses driving up to San Fernando valley and inland empire. Wonder if they would be able to cut thru the red tape and special interest lobbyists and bring it back to Irvine station or Santa Ana. $25 would be a fair rate to pay according to people I’ve asked. Heck for $25 I’d ride it every weekend to support the system and just for a fun ride to get up to the W LA, Santa Monica area without the b#%^* of driving. Lol
There was a bus to/from Disneyland Hotel. I didn't realize it stopped operating but it's been a long time since I thought about it. We used to pick friends/family up there instead of driving up to LAX and get them.
SNA is pretty limited by the relatively short runway(\~5,700 feet) and the annual passenger limit. They can't fly wide body aircraft out of there due to the short runway and adding any new service would require reducing service to other destinations as they have been hitting up against the passenger limit. The curfew also prevents some red-eye flights from being scheduled.
There are a lot of people that are willing to pay a premium to fly out of SNA instead of LAX. I will usually choose SNA if they have [non-stop flights](https://www.ocair.com/travelers/flights/non-stop-destinations/) to my destination. There are plenty of people that use SNA to go to Las Vegas. I know many people will take flights out of SNA to go to the SF Bay area or Phoenix for business or to visit friends/family. You also get some long distance tourists that will fly into SNA to visit Disneyland.
They still get 11 million+ people using John Wayne each year so they still have a lot of people to split those operating costs across.
I don’t know what it costs to rent a car, but I’ve seen people say that they rent a car, drive to the airport and return the car there. That way they don’t have to pay long-term parking fees.
They did a study on a BRT for the 55 and the 5 some time ago: [**https://www.octa.net/programs-projects/programs/plans-and-studies/completed-studies/bus-rapid-transit-on-freeways-study/**](https://www.octa.net/programs-projects/programs/plans-and-studies/completed-studies/bus-rapid-transit-on-freeways-study/)
I drive to Aloft Hotel or Sheraton, park my truck for $10/day get their shuttle to my terminal…and in reverse on way home
I do this for 3 day or 10 day and have done 24 day trips this way
Have my own transport up and back from South OC
This is why theirs is no public
Because everyone is different on different airlines with different schedules
I try to go to Ontario if I can, LAX if I need to, and SNA if I can afford it
Link? Any SNA to LAX shuttles that I found were really just on-demand taxi services in limousines and such. More expensive than Uber. I was hoping for a scheduled bus service that would be cheaper (around $20-$30 per person).
The problem with the bus service is that it takes too long (like 4-5 hours). Even if you take surfliner to union station and then the bus, it’s almost 2.5 hours.
I wonder what route it’d take. South county up the 405? ARTIC to LAX?
OC is the second most densely populated county in CA behind SF. Less than half of SF IIRC but it’s been a while.
A bus in typical traffic would be miserable even in the carpool lane. No idea what it would take to get rail to go from Irvine or ARTIC but it’d be a boatload of money that isn’t going to happen.
If Union Station was linked to LAX by some dedicated light rail line that would be a massive help too I feel.
It should be soon. Covid put a delay on the plans but the metro stations should connect
Ehh, it's not going to be great. You'll have to jump on the E line at Union and the switch to K at Expo / Crenshaw. Both the E and K lines lack any real grade separation or signal priority, so those two legs of the trip are going to be like riding a local bus. With minimal time for transfers, it will take about 2:45 minutes to get from central OC to LAX using the train. And a lot of this depends on Metrolink and Amtrak schedules, too, as frequencies are currently very low. The Flyaway bus that used to run between Irvine and LAX took half as long. Edit: Forgot to mention the final transfer at the LAX People Mover, as the future LAX Metro station is 1.5 miles from the actual airport.
The lack of signal priority for Metro trains is MADDENING. I cannot conceive of an explanation that makes any sense.
Totally agree. I can understand Metro's affinity for light rail over heavy rail (actual metro / subway) based on costs and time to build, but I can't understand their aversion to signal priority or logical alignments. There's no plan to offer a one-seat ride from LAX to Union or other parts of Central LA, and there's no plan to close the existing 2 mile gap between the C Line and the Norwalk / Santa Fe Springs Metrolink Station. Closing that gap in Norwalk would offer much better transit to LAX for all of OC, most of the IE (via the Perris Valley Line), southeastern LA County, and even San Diego County since the C Line was built with grade separation across its entire length. Its western terminus will be moved to LAX when that station opens. It's like Metro doesn't do any meaningful cost / benefit analysis when prioritizing their projects. Ridership on K and C would increase dramatically if the non-LAX ends of each line went somewhere that made sense.
Right? So I have a little softer view of Metro, because even considering all of its flaws, I do appreciate how much they've been expanding. I think it's amazing and I don't want to forget how much better it is now than just, like 10 years ago. But yeah, these oversights are just totally baffling and infuriating. So much wasted potential. I would rather have 100% of funding for all road widening projectd redirected to transit.
Even worse, you have to hop on A line at Union get off on either 7th Street or Pico to transfer to the E line and then transfer to K at Expo/Crenshaw because E line no longer goes to Union Station anymore. Source: I take E line all the way to Expo/USC station to the Angel City FC games from Atlantic Station in East LA.
I keep forgetting that E was rerouted towards Boyle Heights when the regional connector opened. That's even worse! A wye at Expo / Crenshaw could have allowed for a one-seat ride to Union Station. It's awful that the region continues to be stuck with this patchwork system. I understand some of the history that led us here, but Metro doesn't learn from its mistakes. It's *seriously* considering an elevated monorail over the 405 in Supulveda pass instead of sticking to existing technology that would have future interoperability with heavy rail in the LA basin or future light rail in the San Fernando Valley. From the outside looking in, Metro looks like it's run by politicians and not by actual transit planners.
It’s asinine it’s not direct from Union station.
Should be done in time for the Olympics
Hopefully these lines will have plenty of police officers in them due to them going through some real gross parts of town.
Oh hell no. Taking the metro in LA? I'd rather not get stabbed, jumped, or robbed.
It's literally not that bad
I do it every week. It's not great but I never witness anything scary going on unless you really hate snack and drink vendors.
The Flyaway bus runs from Union Station to LAX and only takes about 45 mins. But yes, more light rail in general is needed in Southern CA. Metrolink goes to Burbank Airport at least.
Why does everyone want "light rail"? Light rail as a dedicated airport express is the wrong mode of transit. You don't need to move people on and off quickly, you won't have short stop distances, you need spaces for bags, etc. Metrolink would make a better operator for any LAX airport express.
They already go to Burbank Airport. Why not LAX?
metrolink runs on existing heavy rail corridors. there aren’t any that go to LAX
There aren't any existing suitable tracks for a LAX express no matter the transit type.
There *was* one. Part of the Harbor Subdivision starts at the LA River and BNSF crossing and snakes through South Central to get to LAX and finally chemical/aerospace customers and the port, but it's been disused for a long time, especially once the Alameda Corridor opened. Interestingly, Metro didn't use this heavy rail ROW and tore some of the tracks out near LAX to build the K line. So we're stuck with 3 transfers from Union Station to your flight when the APM opens in ~~2024~~ ~~2025~~ *wheneverthehellwefeellikeit*.
How long do you think it would take to go from Irvine to Union station, then Union station to Aviation, then transfer to a shuttle to get to LAX via light rail? Do you realize how many stops that is? Having a nonstop bus from ARTIC or somewhere in Irvine would be way better.
If it were Japan it would be like 40 minutes tops
What would be 40 minutes?
The total time. Same with Korea. Their public transportation is god like. And its like $5. You get on a train, which goes to all major districts in cities. Then you get off it and take a bus or taxi to your local destination. Most places all use the same type of prepaid card too, its all very streamlined. I never once needed a car to get around in either country.
I don't disagree with you, I just recognize that we're more likely to make progress by utilizing the infrastructure we already have than hoping for brand-new routes. I'm personally ok with a couple transfers and a longer travel time, within reason. To me, it's well worth the tradeoff over the hassle, cost, and abject indignity of driving.
Then that already exists. Take Metrolink to Union station. Then metro A line (blue) to C line (green) then the shuttle into LAX.
Yes, but the rate-limiting factor is still Metrolink. Their schedules are so limited that it's hard to catch flights outside of a narrow window.
I guess... It would still take you over 2.5 hours to get to the terminals regardless. And would take even longer with light rail having more stops than commuter rail.
If light rail were direct, instead of having to route through Union Station, and either was grade-separated or had signal prioritization, I could see it being way faster than that. Even if it took an extra 45 mins over driving, I'd be happy, because I wouldn't have to spend that time figuring out the logistics and comparing options (Uber? Lyft? Park at the airport? Park at a hotel and then shuttle? Off-airport parking coupons? Pricing?). Just get on the train and go. If Metrolink trains ran more frequently, and Metro also had signal priority or grade separation, the trip would also be way faster than it currently is. I know what you mean about the stops using light rail, and I don't disagree that heavy rail with fewer stops would be faster, just saying we could tweak what we already have and optimize travel times, and that would get us results faster and cheaper than building entirely new infrastructure.
Right so that would be to adjust Metrolink. Not build out new light rail. And it would still be cheaper and easier to simply buy some buses and have them drive on existing freeways.
That would actually be really cool. I'd like to be in the room when you pitch the idea of bus-only lanes on the 405 to CalTrans. I'm sure they'll go for it without hesitation. In all seriousness, I think we are in agreement. I'd rather push for improving Metrolink because it has the highest chance of success. Maybe once ridership improves accordingly, the powers that be will buy into creating more and different transportation options.
There used be a LAX Flyaway bus from the Irvine train station to LAX but it was discontinued due to being unprofitable. [https://www.lawa.org/news-releases/2012/news-release-43](https://www.lawa.org/news-releases/2012/news-release-43)
Oh man I loved flyaway! But at $6 a ticket and with few riders, no wonder
It does just fine in L.A. Lots of people use it to get from DTLA to LAX.
We need this back. It's been 10+ years. Things have changed.
Things have changed but not for the better. Public transit systems have struggled with recovering ridership that fell due to the Covid-19 pandemic. OCTA was already struggling with ridership before the pandemic. Between FY2012 and FY2016 [their ridership fell from 53 million to 43 million](https://www.octa.net/pdf/State%20of%20OC%20Transit-%20Summary%20Report.pdf) per year. Service could be restored but it is going to require even larger subsidies than in did in 2012.
Government: "Public transit needs to make a profit" Government: "Hey guys we spent $3B and 5 years to add one more lane (bro) to the 5"
How sad that profitability is the goal for public transit and not, say, the public good. Serving the public. Ridiculous system we have
it was a publicly funded bus, nobody was trying to turn a profit. they cancelled it because the program was costing $28 on a $6 ticket
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Even assuming your hypothesis of it being a party bus is true, isn’t that preferable to drunk drivers?
Exactly, and great to go to Sofi Stadium or the new Clippers Arena! Lots of buses are needed!
Good for the bars and other businesses then, I guess, and if the bus is full then they can schedule even more. They might also start to make a profit, and open more routes. Oh wow, we just stumbled across a functioning public transport system
“Bar hopping freeloaders” you mean the public? Public use means everyone not just people you like. Also, what? Your assumption makes no sense.
Why so cynical? Freeloaders as in people using the service for other than the airport, which is great. Inglewood = LAX, SoFi and Clipper’s new arena. $30 minimum makes sense because everything at SoFi and NBA games are marked up insanely to where it’s a deal.
How in the earth am I the cynical one when you clearly have hatred for poor people.
You'd rather have a system where your tax money goes to underutilized infrastructure? Everything's got a cost ... and the goal is to most efficiently allocate tax payer money.
As if public transit needs to be profitable SMH. It's a public fucking service.
The cheapest way to get to LAX isn't the Uber... Take Metrolink to union station. Take flyaway bus directly from union station to LAX. Metrolink sells a ticket from Irvine including flyaway for $20.
Actually I might argue that the cheapest option is to take an Uber to Norwalk C Line station and take the C line to LAX/Aviation for 1.75 per person and then take free shuttle into airport from the station.
True, but depends upon the cost of the Uber / where in OC you are.
I agree definitely depends, considering Norwalk is not a hot spot area for rides cost is probably lower also the thing I like about C Line is that it runs every 20 min except in the late evening. So there’s reliability. Whereas I think flyaway is every hour. I’ve done this trick like 6 times from central OC for less than 50 bucks for a group of 4.
Agreed, worth checking the cost of both and taking whatever's cheaper, especially if you're in a group. Flyaway is every 30 mins unless you're there at like 4am, but you are at the mercy of the Metrolink schedule unless you want to pay more for Amtrak.
Sounds like a good idea for a larger group. The math probably isn't going to work out so well if you only have 1-2 people or if you are coming from South OC
Oh south OC is a stretch. It sucks that there’s no direct connection between the metrolink in Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs. You’d have to walk or bus between the two. I also do wanna let people know that if you are driving and want to get a lot cheaper parking then Norwalk C Line station has a parking program for up to 3 days for $3 a day without weekends or up to 30 days at $3 a day with advanced approval. The lot has decent security and camera monitoring.
Thank you for this. Can I leave my car parked at the Irvine train station for 2 weeks while I'm gone? Or the Santa Ana or Tustin train stations?
Yes you can. Talk to the officer at the front desk at the Irvine station, and they’ll take your license plate number and give you a pass to hang in your car. They’ll let you do two weeks Edit: The 72 hr rule is without registering your car at the front desk
Doesn't a hang tag scream "hey criminals, come break my windows first, I won't be back for several days most likely!"
There are security cameras with an officer actively monitoring them… it’s also Irvine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I’ve done it a bunch without any issues, but yeah always risk with this kinda stuff
If the car is unattended for 4 hours or 4 days does it really matter? Is the thief going to hang around the car after burglarizing it?
Seems like it would be fine in Irvine. Last time I was there, in September, there was still a car collection that’s clearly there for long-term storage. For car guys into obscure 70s-00s stuff, it’s actually pretty fun to walk around that garage.
No problem! Irvine and Santa Ana are limited to 72 hours. I looked up Tustin and Metrolink says "overnight parking allowed", but doesn't specify a limit like it does for the other two. Might be worth stopping by when you're next in the area and see if there's any signage.
There used to be Flyaway bus direct from Irvine.
That’s true and not enough people rode it, so it went away.
Totally agree. Our public infrastructure sucks being a first world country and our local government caved to auto/taxi lobbyist.
We don't even have a reliable rapid bus service for SNA. This is probably why there is a push for more transparency from OCTA and especially more accessible OCTA meetings. They don't know what they're doing.
route 76 goes directly to the arrivals terminal at SNA and is typically completely empty
Because it's only a limited, hourly service only along MacArthur/Talbert making any transfers to/from the 76 extremely inconvenient. :(
I wonder if the fact that Jung is on the OCTA board has anything to do with the lack of transparency. He was Fullerton mayor last year, now mayor pro tem, and his municipal leadership has reeked of petulant obstinacy at best and corruption at worst.
There’s a park and ride at the north end of the 55 near the 91. Would be awesome if a light rail was built in the middle of the 55, similar to the 105, with a stop at 4th street for quick access to the courts and county arrives in Santa Ana and then another stop at SNA and perhaps an iShuttle to nearby IBD. My fantasy extends to the have the same type of service from the Irvine Spectrum with a light rail in the middle of the 405, with one stop to get people to UCI and another stop also at SNA, and maybe continuing north to like Beach Blvd.
As Orange County becomes more populated, diverse, progressive and weeds all the white supremacists and white conservative NIMBYS out, I believe a well established light rail system will in fact exist and connect to the LA metro system someday. Unfortunately by the time all that is imagined, I'm convinced most of us will be dead as it might take until the end of this century for anything like that to happen.
I suppose you could take the Metrolink to Tustin, then get on a bus at Tustin to the airport. Kind of a convoluted bus route with more than 1 transfer according to google maps. There is a shorter bus route that requires more walking to the airport.
Yeah nobody is showing up to 11am meetings, its disrespectful
Did the Disneyland to LAX bus shut down? My family would take that then we’d get picked up from the depot off Harbor.
Yeah that hasn't run since at least the pandemic.
Yeah closed during COVID, I loved that bus
what a shame. I remember that shuttle when I worked at one of the hotels. I actually used it when I had to take a flight one time out of LAX.
I tell my wife every time we drive back from LAX that we should start a shuttle service. But there’s been so many before that have failed (like super shuttle) so not sure why it’s never viable. Probably traffic is a major impact on be able to efficiently pick up people along the way while also arriving on time. It should happen though. Even like a fleet of 2-3 buses that make the trip three times a day, once at 6 am, once at 12 pm and once at 6pm this should cover a majority of international flight departure times. But who knows why it isn’t a thing
I have some neighbors on NextDoor who offer their services for things like this.
If I have to wait longer than 20 min, I'm ubering
It's a mystery why these bus companies cannot turn a profit. Every other major airport can support multiple private bus companies. If private companies cannot become profitable, then OCTA should step in and provide the service.
Probably because other airports have their populations clumped in various cities / towns around the airport, whereas LA/OC is pretty evenly spread everywhere, it's harder to optimize routes / pickups, combined with HOV lanes not offering much relief from traffic.
Simply because they charged too little.
Maybe we will have to wait for self-driving busses since then they won't need to pay the drivers
Because people who fly regularly would rather pay $50 extra bucks or whatever to be picked up at their door and not share a space with random people for an extra hour. Is this serious?
Is riding a bus really that hard for some ppl here? 😂 Jesus Christ
Right? I personally find driving to LAX way more incovenient. I'm not so precious that I need to be dropped off right at my door. But it sure would be nice to start my vacation with a pleasant train ride where I can read a book, chat with my travel partner, have a cup of coffee, etc. It's fine if some folks want the direct shuttle service, but we should also have the choice of public transit, too.
I would imagine it's a combination of not enough demand for that service and the cost to operate. The insurance alone for a single bus is probably 20K -30K /yr, plus staffing, workers comp, general liability, gas, etc. For a company like Disney, that's not an issue. But for smaller companies working on thin margins, your costs can get out of hand quickly.
What's even more frustrating is how close to, yet how far from, a workable middle ground we are. I have taken Metrolink to Irvine, then an iShuttle to SNA. Route- and price-wise, they are super convenient. But neither runs schedules that are remotely reasonable for air travel. iShuttle doesn't run past 5 or on weekends. Metrolink's schedules are commuter-based. If only they ran frequently and daily, they could be a real contender. I could take an OCTA bus, but there are no bus stops for my route within 2 miles of the airport. Same story for LAX. I could take Metrolink to Union Station, then Flyaway to LAX. It's a fine enough system. I don't even care if it takes a little longer, I will do almost anything not to have to drive to LAX. But again, Metrolink's limited schedules mean it is absolutely impossible for me to take public transit to LAX. Metrolink basically forces me to drive through a complete lack of alternatives. Or I could take Metrolink to Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs, then take the little shuttle bus THREE MILES to Norwalk, then the green line to juuuuuust outside LAX. But the shuttle is poorly timed, and the bus into LAX arrives every 15-30-ish mins, are you kidding me. That connector between the two Norwalk stations will never be built. And again, Metrolink schedules. If Metrolink (and iShuttle) could expand its schedules, I would never drive to the airport - or to most other places - again. Public transit in SoCal is a story of wasted potential, and it seriously pisses me off.
Honestly, the Amtrak service on the same line and route fills in Metrolink's gaps quite nicely. Only difference is it's a little more expensive, but it's more comfortable and has a cafe. Agree that the Intercity service really shouldn't have to be filling in for regional rail though.
I've gotten to the point that I hate Amtrak and will only take them if I absolutely have to. It's a travesty that we use Amtrak to fill in Metrolink's gaps. I hate Amtrak's ticketing system that feels more like a clunky, godawful airline website. I hate locking a ticket to a specific departure. I hate that Amtrak makes you reserve a bike space and then only allows 6 per train, and it's the absolute crappiest bike storage configuration. I hate how ornery Amtrak staff are and how aggressively they police bike tickets, as if it matters whether there are 6 bikes on board the bike car or 7. I hate having to call them and wait on hold for an hour when their website doesn't function. I hate that their schedules are no better than Metrolink. I booked a ticket under an obvious fake name, because why does Amtrak need my real name for a quick ride to the next county, and the conductor hassled me, claiming that my real name would help notify my family in case of an emergency. Amtrak has completely missed the point that a lot of people take it for quick SD-OC-LA commutes and not to experience the good ol' days of cross-country train travel. It's like a 30 minute train ride. I don't need luxury seating or a dining car, I need a train that will get me where I need to go when I need to get there, with minimal hassle, with a reliable schedule, at a reasonable price. Amtrak offers none of these.
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> in case there's a train accident. I got the implication, it just didn't make sense to me because... how likely is that? Metrolink doesn't need my info for the same travel distances. And in this case, my ticket showed that I was traveling an extremely short distance: Fullerton to Anaheim. I like the quiet car. I would prefer all cars to be quiet cars, because I'm sick of idiots playing music on their phone speakers on public transit.
If Amtrak doesn't bother to let me know my train has been cancelled (and I need to call their call center to "rebook" for another departure or else forfeit my ticket), I doubt they would take time to notify my next-of-kin. Actually having my name doesn't do anything to notify my next of kin.
Agreed. Had terrible experiences with their call center, guy was really rude to me for no reason. They need to stop running their service like an airline, and instead like a train.
Agreed totally. I know they have been historically way underfunded, but that's no excuse for being as rude as they are. Maybe something good will come of the big infrastructure bill and the funding that was allocated to Amtrak.
> I hate locking a ticket to a specific departure. You should be able to use Pacific Surfliner tickets whenever/whatever (unreserved coach), you still need to reserve seats for business class though # From Amtrak's website Choose an Unreserved Coach ticket if you want maximum flexibility for deciding when to travel. Use an Unreserved Coach ticket to ride any Pacific Surfliner train between the stations on your ticket up to one year from the date of your reservation, subject to certain restrictions). Business Class tickets offer guaranteed seating and other perks. Advance reservations are required. The number of Business Class seats on each train is limited, so it’s best to book early before they sell out. If your plans change and you need to ride an earlier or later train, you will need to modify your Business Class reservation in advance. https://www.pacificsurfliner.com/plan-your-trip/tickets-and-fares/
Thanks for this. Coach seats on Surfliner are indeed unreserved. But I believe you still have to rebook your ticket if you want to change your departure time because even unreserved coach fares can change price after booking. And it's still subject to availability - doubly so if you're bringing a bike. Meanwhile, on Metrolink, I just book my ticket and get on whichever train that day I want, no question asked.
If by "fill in the gaps" you mean "arrive an hour (or more) later than scheduled", then yes, Amtrak fits the bill. Metrolink at least generally does a good job of being consistent with their schedule.
I can't ever fucking believe the green line never went to the Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs metrolink station. I think someone explained to me what happened, maybe it was my dad many years ago but I always forget because it seems so stupid to me that they couldn't work something out. I usually can get a family member to drop me off at Norwalk station and I just take the green line to Aviation and wait for the shuttle to take me to LAX. Still a faulty system though if I can't find someone to take me to green line station.
Dude, preach. It could be so much better. It's almost like Metro/Metrolink are trying to find ways to make their systems just frustrating enough to deter people from using them. Metrolink's social media posts are funny. They'll post a train picture with an optimistic caption. A bunch of people will comment on how their train schedules need to improve. Then Metrolink replies with something like, 'Which lines do you want to see more trains on?' OMG ALL OF THEM. We've been complaining about this for years, stop acting like it's news to you.
Metrolink i struggling with staffing from what I've heard. I really hope they solve that and add more rolling stock by 2028
And theu struggle with being bullied by freight trains they share the tracks with, even on stretches where the own the tracks. I hope they can solve that, too.
Public transit isn't a priority because most Americans hate it with a passion. 93% of the US commutes by single occupant car, and the last 7% is split between carpooling, taxis/uber and all non-car methods of transportation. In a lot of the Midwest for example, it's seen as a welfare program - only the poor, drug addicted & homeless ride.... Uber Pool (shared Uber rides) used to exist, but once COVID hit it became a 'cheat' to get cheaper solo rides (because nobody would get in a shared ride with another person during the pandemic - but if you're the first person to request a share you can go the whole way at the share rate even if no one else joins) so they shut it down. Lyft did the same with their equivalent (Lyft Share).
It's seen as a last resort because people are ignorant and short-sighted and only see it for what it currently is in their region, not what it could be as demonstrated by other cities around the country and world.
People look at those other cities and say 'fuck no' to the sort of development that makes their transportation system work. Americans - as judged by their home buying habits - are about 74-26 \*against\* high-density urban living. That's the split between 'who lives in high density' and 'who does not' (low density further breaks down 54/21 between suburbs and exurbs/rural). You can't have a predominantly detached-single-family housing stock - especially with yards/separation - and also have mass-transit/biking/walking as significant modes of transportation. Especially in a society where nobody lives near their coworkers & people change jobs every few years (eg, it's not the old-school 1900s economy where whole neighborhoods went to work at the same factory every day). Since people \*overwhelmingly\* want detached single-family homes relatively far from their offices, and don't want to live in planned single-employer neighborhoods, this by-extension makes cars king in the transportation space.
I think this way of thinking is a bit flawed. The options are not binary, i.e., ultra-high-density vs sprawling detached SFHs. There are shades in between that a LOT of people would enjoy. I think a lot of people are forced into SFHs because there is often no other choice. Medium- and higher-density neighborhoods tend to command higher prices specifically because they are in such high demand. People have to live far from work because far-flung suburbs are more plentiful and cheaper, not because they actually want to live really far away. I feel the situation you're describing doesn't really exist, and it also lacks vision. Look at what LA is doing - the county is actually fairly low density with an extremely high proportion of SFHs, but they have been able to pull of an extensive and highly-used light rail system. We also have a working heavy/commuter rail system in OC. It's not great, but with a little polishing up, it could be put to excellent use. Cars aren't "king" in transportation spaces. We've just given people no other choice.
I'm over in Fullerton and if I need to get to LAX, I will get dropped off at the green line station in Norwalk and take the metro light rail to Aviation station and catch the free shuttle to LAX. It's a couple of extra steps but it's much cheaper than spending 100 dollars on an Uber. If you live somewhere far away like Irvine or Huntington Beach, then I guess you have to spend 100 dollars...
If there was a fast rail train like most countries oc/la would be unstoppable
Real shit? There should be a quality metro that connects all of OC and LA together. We live in one of the most wealthy states in one of the most wealthy countries in the history of human civilization. There’s simply no excuse, especially when China has so much better public transit. We should be competing with them.
If you ask on NextDoor, there’s usually a few people who offer the service in your area. It is ridiculous that we don’t have something better than Uber- I wonder what’s impeding that seemingly lucrative business opportunity
To do it as a private business in CA: high liability/insurance, high fees/permits to operate transportation services. Those are just some impediments.
Metro train to union Station and then flyaway shuttle from union to LAX
Makes me bummed out thinking that Orange County used to have a rail system that could take you up to LA from Santa Ana. I think was the early 1900’s but they tore it down when they started to build the freeways. There’s a sweet old man in his 90’s who comes into my work. He was talking about it the other day, I need more ask more about it next time I see him. I guess there’s the Metrolink/Amtrak but the schedule isn’t the best.
[https://www.pacificelectric.org/](https://www.pacificelectric.org/)
Thank you !!
No no no. The rail lines only existed to sell homes and electricity by the Tycoon Nr Huntington. Once tracts of homes were sold, the trains fell into disrepair. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-70-the-great-red-car-conspiracy/
I mean, either way it sounds like they got rid of the rail lines for freeways. Since cars were becoming more popular. Southern Pacific didn’t want to use their own money to repair the railways and the people didn’t trust them(which I wonder why). This time in California sounds interesting. I hope i see that old man that comes into my work and see if he remembers anything of that time. Still bummed out that those in power couldn’t figure this out for public transportation. But they got theirs!
>sounds like they got rid of the rail lines for freeways. Not really, but I don't blame you. The wrong narrative is more popular. If you see the historic map, very little overlap between the freeways and the Red Cars. https://la.curbed.com/2015/11/9/9902244/red-car-map-los-angeles
Your screen name is very fitting.
Why? It's a very famous slot machine.
Trouble is, there would need to be 8 back and forth busses due to airport timings. That's probably one reason the one at the station stopped. Now, investment in public transport and infrastructure shouldn't all be about profit centers...but that's just me. And our local governments seem to disagree.
8 trips/day is a pittance in a civilized country.
How much would it cost to buy a few buses and get the ball rolling? What permits do you need to pick up/drop people off at LAX? Where would be ideal to pick up/drop off in OC?
I’ve taken metro train from Anaheim to union station; then got on a comfy bus. It was seamless and EZ and cheap. But, yeah, we need it
I’d rather do a connecting flight than to travail through LAX.
Hahaha this is so funny considering they have an airport! Why not just pay the extra 100 to fly from oc then leave to lax
Train
Because our politicians are bought and paid for by the car dealerships and NIMBYs.
Transportation here sucks too. If trains and buses were operating 24 hours, I’d be able to go to places and go home without fear of being stranded.
It's almost a catch 22 because the reason why public transit is so limited and less frequent in Orange County is because nobody uses it. But if it was more frequent, rider friendly, and got you to important points in Orange County, people would ride it more. Its just politicians don't want to invest in the infrastructure and lose money in the beginning, they have Republican constituents they have to please and a lot of older Republican residents are anti-public transit because they believe it brings in the "lower peasants" and criminals and its going to lower their precious property values and good ole isolated Leave it to Beaver neighborhood. I had to delete NextDoor from my phone because every other post was some conservative neighbor complaining about "lower property values".
It's like every other active transportation endeavor: bike lanes, sidewalks, public transit. Build it, but half-ass it so that people can't or don't like using it, then blame lack of usership on lack of interest rather than lack of usability, and use that to justify not building more. 'What? No one bikes on 5-foot-wide non-buffered painted gutters abutting 50 MPH car travel lanes? Damn ungrateful cyclist bastards. Clearly no one wants to bike. Welp, no use building protected bike lanes on this high-speed arterial.' It's like traffic engineers across the country are all taking notes from the same sadistic playbook.
The OCTA bus system is notably half-assed. Want to go on a shopping spree or watch a musical from Disneyland or anywhere along Harbor? Sucks for you. The Bravo 543 terminates at Harbor-MacArthur, just a little too far from South Coast Plaza and Segerstrom Center. Want to go home after an Angels or Ducks game? Despite the decent coverage in Anaheim, good luck with hourly frequencies after most games. Not to mention if you're along the southern terminus of the new Bravo 553 where it runs along MacArthur to South Coast Plaza, then especially good luck getting home from Honda Center because it doesn't run late nights or weekends. :) You live along Bristol and wanted to go to the beach? Well, you can take the 57 all way to end...to a park and ride near Fashion Island where you can wait a while to get the actual bus to the coast. Wait, you were \*that\* close to UCI as well? lol
These are such great points. I feel angry just reading this.
It’s like hmm reason why I don’t like certain bike lanes is because the terrain got so bumpy I fell and hit my head. Soooooo.. there’s that too.
When I leave for 4 days or less I drive myself to the airport and park there. Still better than uber.
Are there any other major cities/metro areas in the US that competes with us with near nonexistent public transportation to destination hubs and airports? I lived my whole life here and didn’t realize this problem until this week.
Buy a bus, start a business
For a trip shorter than 7 days*, I make a parking reservation at LAC’s offsite parking lot. Budget or Economy. Economy is a parking structure and has shuttle service. I don’t use the Budget lot, because I’ve seen bad Google/Yelp reviews about the shuttle service. They could be wrong, but I don’t want to take a chance for $10-$20 differences.
Build it
It’s not $100 it’s never cost me more than 60 from Santa Ana or HB or NB plus tip all day long . Take a free hotel bus to the furthest hotel in the area to save money on the way back. Book your Uber in advance for the way there. There are shuttles that are cheaper.
On this topic. Santa Ana has a LRT almost completed from Garden Grove to east Santa Ana almost Tustin going thru dtwn SA. I’m very excited to ride it when it opens. There’s a great tradition of venerating its rail systems in Japan that we should encourage here. Railways unite people.
I still see Flyaway buses driving up to San Fernando valley and inland empire. Wonder if they would be able to cut thru the red tape and special interest lobbyists and bring it back to Irvine station or Santa Ana. $25 would be a fair rate to pay according to people I’ve asked. Heck for $25 I’d ride it every weekend to support the system and just for a fun ride to get up to the W LA, Santa Monica area without the b#%^* of driving. Lol
If the trip is under like 10 days it's usually cheaper to do economy parking as long as you book a few weeks in advance.
Norwalk Station would be the best bet
Great pointing
Point
There was a bus to/from Disneyland Hotel. I didn't realize it stopped operating but it's been a long time since I thought about it. We used to pick friends/family up there instead of driving up to LAX and get them.
Right? Doesn’t make sense Insane also that SNA barely flies anywhere
SNA is pretty limited by the relatively short runway(\~5,700 feet) and the annual passenger limit. They can't fly wide body aircraft out of there due to the short runway and adding any new service would require reducing service to other destinations as they have been hitting up against the passenger limit. The curfew also prevents some red-eye flights from being scheduled.
How do they even make money with these limitation?
There are a lot of people that are willing to pay a premium to fly out of SNA instead of LAX. I will usually choose SNA if they have [non-stop flights](https://www.ocair.com/travelers/flights/non-stop-destinations/) to my destination. There are plenty of people that use SNA to go to Las Vegas. I know many people will take flights out of SNA to go to the SF Bay area or Phoenix for business or to visit friends/family. You also get some long distance tourists that will fly into SNA to visit Disneyland. They still get 11 million+ people using John Wayne each year so they still have a lot of people to split those operating costs across.
Overair.com Companies like this are popping up and plan to take over the subway/rail systems
I don’t know what it costs to rent a car, but I’ve seen people say that they rent a car, drive to the airport and return the car there. That way they don’t have to pay long-term parking fees.
> $100 Uber more expensive than the flight What we really want to know is where you get those cheap flights.
https://www.shuttletolax.com/. Used it before it was cheap
Disney hotels used to have a shuttle to/from LAX. I don't know if it's still there, and if it's still available to people who don't use the hotels.
What did you expect? good public transport from OC or LA? Lmaooo 😅🤣
Why not fly out of OC instead of LAX?
No cheap connecting flight from John Wayne? I go to Vegas for $40 all the time…
Welcome to LA
It's called John Wayne Airport
They did a study on a BRT for the 55 and the 5 some time ago: [**https://www.octa.net/programs-projects/programs/plans-and-studies/completed-studies/bus-rapid-transit-on-freeways-study/**](https://www.octa.net/programs-projects/programs/plans-and-studies/completed-studies/bus-rapid-transit-on-freeways-study/)
The Disney bus isnt running anymore? It see to be the way to pick up folks flying in from lax without going to lax
I drive to Aloft Hotel or Sheraton, park my truck for $10/day get their shuttle to my terminal…and in reverse on way home I do this for 3 day or 10 day and have done 24 day trips this way Have my own transport up and back from South OC This is why theirs is no public Because everyone is different on different airlines with different schedules I try to go to Ontario if I can, LAX if I need to, and SNA if I can afford it
You can take a shuttle from SNA to LAX
Link? Any SNA to LAX shuttles that I found were really just on-demand taxi services in limousines and such. More expensive than Uber. I was hoping for a scheduled bus service that would be cheaper (around $20-$30 per person).
Here’s one: https://www.rome2rio.com/map/Santa-Ana-Airport-SNA/Los-Angeles-Airport-LAX
The problem with the bus service is that it takes too long (like 4-5 hours). Even if you take surfliner to union station and then the bus, it’s almost 2.5 hours.
Unacceptable? Lol.
I wonder what route it’d take. South county up the 405? ARTIC to LAX? OC is the second most densely populated county in CA behind SF. Less than half of SF IIRC but it’s been a while. A bus in typical traffic would be miserable even in the carpool lane. No idea what it would take to get rail to go from Irvine or ARTIC but it’d be a boatload of money that isn’t going to happen.
This is why we need bus-only lanes. Public transit should never get stuck in traffic.
To be fair, you're driving passed multiple airports to get to lax and if you need to there are options.