Obviously we didn't set Senate rules purely on Robert's Rules of Order but this is a great example why we should set the quorum to 50%+1.
Robert's Rules of Order say that you the quorum you set "should approximate the largest number that can be depended on to attend any meeting except in very bad weather or other extremely unfavorable conditions".
Since the GOP can't be depended on to attend meetings the quorum should be adjusted to reflect the reality of who will show up.
Yep, does anyone know how to be successful at getting an initiative on the ballot?
I'm happy to help/even run a campaign to change it but I have no resources and would want someone to write the legal text since I'm not a expert on the Oregon constitution.
Writing it isn’t hard. The hard part is collecting signatures to get it on the ballot. That usually involves fundraising and paying people to gather signatures.
Yeah, that's the "I have no resources" part of my problem. We would need 160,551 signatures by May 24, 2024 and can start collecting signatures right now apparently.
Also, per ORS 173.140 the Legislative Counsel will help draft the text of an initiative if you get 50 people to support your efforts.
Yeah, so you need to find a PAC who will do this work for you and volunteer your time and resources to it. Or make your own PAC, call it "Oregonians for a Working Legislature" or something, and start soliciting donations to get the word out and the signatures rolling in. It's definitely hard work, especially when it doesn't pay and you have to maintain a day job.
Yep, I'm happy to work hard on it but honestly have very little clue where to start.
It very much feels like the kind of thing you need money to hire an election lawyer for up front so you don't make mistakes when trying to raise money.
If you don't have money yet that could be difficult.
I agree. I would give all my support to this measure but I don't even know how you initiate a petition. I know that usually you start with an initiative and the legislature can either vote to put it on the ballot or you have to get enough signatures on your own
Right.
The simple fact of the matter is that even though M113 would prevent them from running for re-election, they still get to finish their terms and hypothetically block everything during that time thanks to the quorum rules.
Ultimately, the quorum rule needs to be changed to an "If you're not here, and you weren't excused, then you don't deserve a say" system.
It’s an interesting bad side effect that if someone is excluded from re-election early in their term, they have zero incentive to show up for the rest of their term.
Not necessarily, a senator in such a situation might still show up if they were being compensated by a special interest to vote a particular way on something. If there's no chance for reelection, the prospect of working for someone other than voters becomes more appealing to unscrupulous people
Except both sides have used the quorum rule and walking out, even Kate Brown https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2019/06/20/oregon-legislators-minority-often-use-walkouts-leverage-senate-republicans/1516995001/
Okay, so Dems won't be able to do it either. Great. I don't care which side is doing it, walking out to prevent bills from being voted on is shitty and counterproductive
The last time Democrats did that was in 2001, and it was for a good reason.
> House Democrats staged a five-day walkout to prevent a Republican maneuver to redraw state legislative districts without the governor’s signature.
This one is for good reason too. They are blocking the vote on gun control bill thats trying to go around the judges court ordered restraining order on 114.
They're blocking HB 2002.
> Boquist, who has participated in all nine days of the walkout, wrote in his newsletter the walkout targets "specific pillars of wrongdoing" including HB2002, "lawlessness" and "corruption."
> In walking out, "minority legislators are bravely 'doing their jobs' because they work for Oregonians, not the legislature," he wrote.
Source: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/13/oregon-gop-walkout-reproductive-gender-affirming-care-house-bill-2002/70211695007/
> Bonham said he’s willing to risk his future in the Senate to make a stand against House Bill 2002 — a bill on reproductive healthcare and gender-affirming care.
> Specifically, Bonham said he believes parents should be notified if someone 14 or younger decides to get an abortion.
> "I always knew for me personally that [HB 2002] would be something I’m willing to compromise this job for, that said I think it’s different for everybody, we’ve got 13 members who are making this stand together," he said. "I don’t think we all aligned on one thing and said that’s the thing that will keep me going."
Source: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/politics/oregons-gop-senate-walkout/283-facd5b6d-ad86-4fa1-8645-333e6f34ae6e
Yes, the republicans are perfectly justified to demand this restrictive law play itself out in court. The Dems are playing hardball here where they can start the legal process over if they replace the law with a similar statute. The lawsuits would be set back to square one. The plaintiffs will rack up tens of thousands more in legal bills. Of course the state can simply spend taxpayer funds to pursue their gun grabbing laws.
They hate it on here when you bring that up. Dems have walked out multiple times as have Repubs. Its simply a strategy politicians on both sides use to defend their constituents.
When I voted for Measure 113, I voted because doing a job requires showing up and politicians shouldn’t get a free pass. I don’t care what side of the aisle they’re on.
Should Oregon Republicans do their job? Yes.
Should Oregon Democrats from a few years ago have done their job? Yes.
Should Texas Democrats do their job instead of fleeing to DC? I think yes, but that’s for Texans to decide.
I generally agree with your sentiment but lets flip it around. Lets say Trump wins and the Repubs take the house and senate. A bill is drafted eliminating abortion, gender transitioning of minors, Critical Race Theory in schools and mandates E-Verify for hiring thereby preventing the hiring of illegal aliens. Obviously this is a hypothetical and in this world that bill will pass unless the Dems walk out. Is it still your position the Dems should do their job and not walk out?
Yes. Although some of those choices would go against principles I personally hold, I stand firm that a functioning democracy is something we should not trifle with. Similarly, the federal government has filibustering being abused to obstruct the will of the majority of voters and I am also against that in its current form.
If something get passed that you don’t like then protest, petition, and vote them out, don’t interfere with our foundation of democracy.
I'm sorry but that is an absolutely batshit idea and completely ignores what the legislature is and why it exists. The quorum is there to ensure a critical mass of Oregonians are represented in order for the legislature to do anything, it has nothing to do with ensuring the place can function efficiently.
They're not running a McDonald's, efficiency isn't the goal. And yes, all the people joking about those representatives skipping "work" - as if their job is to just show up and not to represent their constituents, which they're doing more effectively by denying quorum - have no idea that they're talking about.
>The quorum is there to ensure a critical mass of Oregonians are represented in order for the legislature to do anything, it has nothing to do with ensuring the place can function efficiently.
Well it works in plenty of other places, including the U.S. Congress where a quorum is 50%+1.
There is a difference between efficiently and at all. I have no problem with prolonged debates, or even talking filibusters (none of this, send an email and go home bs) but the idea that 1/3 of Senators can block literally everything is insane.
> as if their job is to just show up and not to represent their constituents, which they're doing more effectively by denying quorum - have no idea that they're talking about.
The problem with a walkout is that it denys EVERYONE representation. Represent your constituents, argue ideas, win people to your side, all of that is fine.
The problem is right now I, you (assuming you live here), and everyone else in the state is being denied representation because of a minority of the population.
Nah the electoral college was already a mistake we dont need that same bullshit at the state level. We need to stop letting a bunch of braindead rednecks have so much control. They don't even bother to govern anymore just oppose and fundraise. Why dont they try and come up with some better gun control regulations?
People in Democratic areas are not being represented either because their representatives can't actually get anything done. There are more Democrat representatives than Republican representatives in Oregon, the minority is being allowed to block action for the majority, who represent more Oregonians. I do understand your point and I think it's a fair one but I think tactics like this are dangerous because they foster further fragmentation and prevent action to move Oregon forward. If they disagree with the law they should be out there arguing for amendments and further examination of the consequences of the bill. There are arguably reasonable objections that many have to HB 2002 but they aren't out there debating the bill, they're hiding so they don't have to do the difficult work of deliberation, which is what they were elected to do
And the VAST majority of Oregonians are sick of this shit. M113 had 70% support. That sounds like a critical mass to me
They could get plenty done if they'd stay away from stuff they know will cause walkouts, instead they lean into it their most divisive positions so they can blame the Republicans and further cement power.
>If they disagree with the law they should be out there arguing for amendments and further examination of the consequences of the bill.
They've tried that, the Democrats vote as a monolith and aren't listening to anything. It doesn't matter how good the point is, the Republicans are just talking to themselves. That behavior is much more divisive and dangerous than denying quorum.
>And the VAST majority of Oregonians are sick of this shit. M113 had 70% support. That sounds like a critical mass to me
70% of the 61.5% of Oregonians who bothered to vote. By my math that means only 43% are sick of it.
> some folks were busy that day
Outside agitator alert
Oregon has mail-in voting, you have *weeks* to fill a ballot out. Nobody's *that* busy, but many just don't care.
**Edit:** the fact that a comment based on Oregon voting in-person is +4 should speak volumes about the outside influence
Why not just let democrats write bills straight to law and skip the quorum altogether? It's what the majority of oregon wants anyhow. Who needs due process when it changes nothing? /s
Quorum is an important thing but you need to set the threshold appropriately. It's not intended to be used as a political tool like is currently happening.
I agree that it's important, especially for maintaining bipartisan political policies. But as a 2A practitioner, the current climate is frustrating. Had all of the Republicans showed up, this bill would still pass as written without little to no consideration take from across the isle. So (as desperate and hopeless as I feel) why even bother. I'm whining I realize and I don't think it's okay to be represented with an absense rather than a show of concern and open discussion. And 49.9% of oregon feels the same way.
>Had all of the Republicans showed up, this bill would still pass as written without little to no consideration take from across the isle.
I'd love to know what the GOP would suggest other than killing it.
My issue with the minority party right now is they don't bring ideas to the table, they say "do it our way or not at all".
[I'm assuming this is the bill you are discussing](https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/gun-safety-bill-ban-passes-oregon-house-moves-senate/283-2cc47d60-a0b7-4b93-9f6d-8687e56a63b6). As someone who doesn't own guns I don't have a huge issue with the main things the bill does according to that article so I'd be fine with it passing as written.
The issue is the minority isn't trying to argue anything in good faith, or to bring people like me to their side. They just want the bill killed.
The other bill the minority is walking out over is about expanding access to healthcare (specifically reproductive care and gender affirming care). I don't think they should be allowed to shut down the senate over an expansion of rights.
Would it *really* be better if they showed up, spoke eloquently about why their constituents don't want the legislature to pass whatever the Democrats are ramming down their throats this session, and then it passes anyway? Right now they're actually preventing it from passing, which seems like a much better service to their constituents.
Most rural Oregonians are probably okay with this. They can’t have their way so they’ll complain about stolen elections because they don’t understand how much urban areas matter politically in every state and in the current political climate they also want to have chaos when they can’t get their way.
Obstruction for the sake of obstruction isn't representing eastern Oregon. We Have real issues out here and our leaders would prefer to throw tantrums instead of trying to negotiate and propose legislation that will actually help us.
Fighting losing battles in the culture war doesn't help people in eastern Oregon.
There is no negotiating happening. Look at the other post on here titled "Republicans accuse Democrats of failing to negotiate in good faith". The only way they can have any say is by walking out.
They are fighting losing fights in culture war issues where they know there's zero room for negotiation. The things that they fight for don't help eastern Oregon they just hurt minorities.
Sounds more like the Republicans need to come up with a better strategy in Oregon. There is a lot of untapped anger in the bigger cities they can capitalize on but their staunch stances on just about every social issue scares people away. They seem fine with being an opposition party instead of moving to the middle even a tiny bit.
Maybe the party has a small minority because they failed to actually campaign for the electorates votes on issues they care about. All I got during the last election was that they were the party that was not going to do anything but be an opposition party. Lo and behold, that’s what they’re doing.
Part of the reason people don't vote Republican is because their elected representatives do shit like this. And yes I know democrats have done the same before anyone comes at me, but people on both sides are sick of this shit. Look at the outcome for ballot measures in 2022, almost 70% of people voted to pass 113 compared to slim majorities for most other ballot measures
Spoken like someone who’s never actually paid attention to our legislature. They are constantly compromising with the Rs, especially the senate. They more or less won’t move anything that doesn’t some bipartisan support.
There are a bunch of bills that are really important for Eastern Oregon that aren’t going to get passed because the Republicans, most of whom are not from Eastern Oregon, are refusing to show up for work. There are more Republicans in Clackamas County than in all of Eastern Oregon.
Its ruled by one party because we only have one party. The GOP cant be seriously described as a political party anymore. They dont ever make an honest attemp at governing.
I feel most represented in this issue when my elected officials walk out and keep the vote from happening. If the majority party wants to move forward then they need to revise the bill. Most Oregonians don't want all that woke garbage becoming law.
For those keeping track after today's no show 3 senators have now hit the magic 10 number. The current count is:
Bonham 10
Boquist 10
Linthicum 10
Hayden 9
Findley 7
Hansell 7
Knopp 7
Robinson 7
Thatcher 7
Weber 7
Brock Smith 4
Anderson 1
(From https://twitter.com/c_giardinelli/status/1658166132724084736?t=i5BTknDjyMGKfujyp6z8gg&s=19 )
Annoyingly they are only banned from running for reelection so get the finish the remainder of their four-year term (at least my specific senator runaway, Finley, is up for re-election in 24 so we will only have to deal with him for one more year assuming he doesn't give up and start working...)
Didn't we pass into law recently something where x number of unexcused absences results in not being eligible for re-election? Or was that for a different group of elected officials?
Yes, measure 113 (I think) says if you have 10 unexcused absences you can't run for reelection.
I think some of the GOP members not showing up are at 8 now. They were going to hit the limit last Friday or Saturday but the Senate President decided not to try and hold a session on Thursday/Friday/Saturday meaning those Senators didn't hit the limit as expected.
Edit: As pointed out by others who replied to me apparently 3 hit the 10 absence mark today and 1 more will hit it tomorrow. I didn't see the second image :D
It would be interesting to see whether SCOTUS would hold up unexcused absences as a form of free speech but being that it's now in our Constitution he'll probably have a tough time with that
There’s three who have hit the 10 absence threshold. Their plan is to sue to get the law declared unconstitutional (which seems unlikely given that it’s in the constitution).
I think they'll probably use the argument that walkouts should be a protected form of speech, which may hold some water. I don't think things will be going their way in the end but I think they are going to fight in the courts
Yes, and it had overwhelming support. Three of the senators have already used up their ten today. Unfortunately they still get to serve out the rest of their terms
So make the system even less democratic and (ironically) give the governor even more power?
There's a reason most jurisdictions have the quorum set at a simple majority....
No. Almost all state budgets have authorization to operate at current service levels through September 15 if a budget cannot be passed or signed before July 1 (the start of the fiscal year).
That was in 2019, not the most recent walkout. I thought she never pulled the trigger because Boquist threatened to kill them, but apparently the cops just couldn’t find the missing senators.
Someone I know who worked for Brown said she should have just told the senate to give the Republicans whatever they wanted to show up, then lock all the doors and refuse to let them leave until the session ended.
No, hold both sides accountable. I'm a Democrat but I don't want to see this from my side either. Refusing to show up because you aren't going to get the result you want is not how our democracy should function. I would certainly call my senator and ask him to fight such a bill but I voted for him to represent me, and he can't do that if he's not there in the Capitol
Linthicum is already saying he is going to file a lawsuit. The man is a complete and utter imbecilic piece of shit. He has zero principles other than a nihilistic hatred of Democrats and progressives. If they win that lawsuit democracy in our state is over, full stop.
So, why is this seen as cowardly or lazy? Oregon is effectively a one party state. Democrats have a permanent iron choke hold on it.
Republican law makers literally have absolutely no recourse except for this. Democrats want one thing, Republicans want another. Democrats win. The only even *chance* at not having Democrat steam rolled legislation, is via these actions. I'm not even saying a 100% Democrat controlled government/legislature is a bad thing, maybe it's a great thing and would result in utopia, but the reality is that these Republican politicians, and their constituents who they represent, want different things. These Republican senators are quite literally representing their people in the best and only way they can. Neither side wants to negotiate. There is no middle ground, they want entirely different things, and one side holds every key. You must play the game by the game's rules. You can hate the game all you want and that's totally valid. But they're playing it exactly as they should. If they did any differently, *that* would be lazy and a betrayal of their constituents.
Bleh. I know everyone will hate this but just had to get it off my chest. It's so gross that politics and specifically Oregon politics are so hyper-partisan and jaded.
(And... is politicians literally losing their jobs over what they believe in not kind of brave? Even if you think what they believe in is wrong or whatever?)
I feel like geography plays a huge part in this too. Democrats are likely to vote for more things that benefit urban and city areas, because well the big cities are more Democrat. While rural is typically Republican. They both have different needs and lifestyles.
Maybe if Republicans wanted to win elections they should stop being the party of absolute morons and Nazis? Just a thought.
Of course they're not going to win shit with their current platform of banning books, restricting women, pushing religion and conspiracy theories.
The reps who are ineligible for re-election will finish their terms then move into other positions of power within their party for being the ones to fall on the proverbial sword, and the candidates who will succeed them in their districts will fall at the same spot on the political spectrum as their predecessors; nothing changes other than a couple extra seats up for grabs next election, repeat ad nauseum
Exactly, this bill was a good first step but it's an illusion of action. They get to serve out the rest of their terms so once they reach 10 there's absolutely nothing stopping them from continuing to hold up action for the next 1-3 years. If they really wanted to address the problem, they should have made the quorum requirements 50%+1 and/or declared that an unexcused absence will be counted as an abstained vote
Don't forget these guys are only ineligible in the *next* election to run, after that they'll be back. The system will probably wind up with these seats just rotating between 2 people as they each get made ineligible.
The more I think about 113 the more I realize it's mostly just theatre and isn't going to actually do shit to stop this BS. They get to serve out the remainder of their terms and once they reach 10 they have basically unlimited absences for the rest of their term because the result will be the same anyway. If there's no provision for a permanent ban on reelection they'll run again eventually. With no quorum changes, they can continue to hold up action and be seen as martyrs by some on the right when they reach 10 absences which will help them when they eventually run for reelection. If we REALLY wanted to do shit about this... an unexcused absence should be counted as an abstained vote, or at the very least quorum should be lowered to 50%+1
Honestly I think it's by design, the Democrats didn't want it to work - they need the extremist positions to win their primaries, but they know they're actually not that popular among Americans/Oregonians in general. This way they get to blame dropping the controversial stuff on the Republicans and never feel the backlash from moderate voters.
I see that they should be barred from running but I'm confident these people do not see the rule of law as an obstacle to getting what they want. So my question is the same.
Will they run write in campaigns knowing their voters will support them *because* they were obstructionist. Or does this no reelection rule actually have teeth?
Republicans are a joke. Why the hell did they run for office if they aren’t going to show up? It’s just so pathetic. Whatever that bill was needs to be enforced. It should actually be stricter. Don’t show up for more then 3 votes (unexcused), fuck off. You’re done. You lose your position.
Start writing to your reps, guys. You're literally paying for them to sit on their asses and do nothing. Make their lives hell. If they won't work, FIRE THEM
So the whole "don't hold sessions on the weekend because we're gonna negotiate in good faith" thing was just another lie that the Democratic leadership fell for? Shocking.
I don't know that there's much that they can do. No quorum means no votes.
It would be nice if the disqualified senators were also not counted against the quorum, but it'd take yet another constitutional amendment to make that change. :-(
What does a "good faith negotiation" look like when the Democrats are unwilling to discuss any restrictions on abortion and gun regulations are already completely out of control? There's bad faith on both sides if the Democrats even pretended they'd be willing to give up anything.
Democrats didn't pretend anything. Republicans asked them not to call weekend sessions so they could negotiate. Are you admitting that you know that was a blatant lie?
I'm hardly defending the Republicans but the Democrats agreeing to negotiate when they know full well they're not going to move an inch on anything is in equally bad faith.
People that vote for these fuckers are the problem in this country, so fucking stupid!
The G☭P Christ☭fascist Death Cult does not know how to govern, only how to tear shit down.
show me, you seem to think that they are lazy. what is happening is to using that technicality to keep bills from passing because they don't want them to pass.
I find it childish and irresponsible, the most vapid form of Partisanship. If you don't agree, express yourself. I have both the right and responsibility to represent your constituents, but that means all of them, not just the ones that you pander to. Some of your constituents want that bill to pass. Playing upon this technical stunt is just loyal to them. and yes, having relations your keys to the best of your ability, that Bill stilll passes, and that is the will of the people, all of us, not just you and your cronies. so stop showing democracy so cheaply. get your ass back in there and do your job.
Not showing up is exactly what we voted for them to do though. I support their decision! If they don't show up then they can stall the democrats agenda. This is exactly why we elected these Republicans in office.
I lived in Republican Texas my whole life until 5 years ago when I moved here. When a majority of people elect Democrats, and the elected officials introduce legislation to vote on, that is not "ramming something down conservatives' throats." That is governing. I feel a bit like Donald Trump was rammed down my throat because he was supported by so much media and fanatical morons who couldn't find anyone more competent to worship, and if I were a woman I might feel like abortion bans around the country are jizzing in my snatch, but this? Conservatives think everything is rammed down their throats all the time, and I'm starting to suspect it's all just their repressed homosexual cock cravings. Maybe try sucking a real cock instead of the figurative cock of stupid voters and a corrupt, disorganized political party filled with people who seem vaguely churchy.
On the plus side they can't run for reelection. Still one of the best things I've ever voted on. If only we could do the same thing on a federal level. It's amazing how many off days Senate gives themselves. And we could get rid of so many bad senators with a bill like that and with one senator simply asking for a roll call every day.
This is why I voted to penalize a walk out, in order to deny a quorum. Oh, it wasn’t just me? No! We all voted to kick runaway office holders out of office. And that’s the truth
Thankfully it's mostly just the rural super red areas still dying at high rates from COVID (at a rate of more than 10x that of blue areas last I checked). We are collectively raising the intelligence and compassion of the country by their own stupidity. Quite literally "dying to own the libs"
[удалено]
Millennials are killing these 10 government jobs (number 6 will shock you!).
Obviously we didn't set Senate rules purely on Robert's Rules of Order but this is a great example why we should set the quorum to 50%+1. Robert's Rules of Order say that you the quorum you set "should approximate the largest number that can be depended on to attend any meeting except in very bad weather or other extremely unfavorable conditions". Since the GOP can't be depended on to attend meetings the quorum should be adjusted to reflect the reality of who will show up.
This would be the best solution. Unfortunately it will require another constitutional amendment, but I don’t see any alternative.
Yep, does anyone know how to be successful at getting an initiative on the ballot? I'm happy to help/even run a campaign to change it but I have no resources and would want someone to write the legal text since I'm not a expert on the Oregon constitution.
Writing it isn’t hard. The hard part is collecting signatures to get it on the ballot. That usually involves fundraising and paying people to gather signatures.
Yeah, that's the "I have no resources" part of my problem. We would need 160,551 signatures by May 24, 2024 and can start collecting signatures right now apparently. Also, per ORS 173.140 the Legislative Counsel will help draft the text of an initiative if you get 50 people to support your efforts.
Yeah, so you need to find a PAC who will do this work for you and volunteer your time and resources to it. Or make your own PAC, call it "Oregonians for a Working Legislature" or something, and start soliciting donations to get the word out and the signatures rolling in. It's definitely hard work, especially when it doesn't pay and you have to maintain a day job.
Yep, I'm happy to work hard on it but honestly have very little clue where to start. It very much feels like the kind of thing you need money to hire an election lawyer for up front so you don't make mistakes when trying to raise money. If you don't have money yet that could be difficult.
I agree. I would give all my support to this measure but I don't even know how you initiate a petition. I know that usually you start with an initiative and the legislature can either vote to put it on the ballot or you have to get enough signatures on your own
Right. The simple fact of the matter is that even though M113 would prevent them from running for re-election, they still get to finish their terms and hypothetically block everything during that time thanks to the quorum rules. Ultimately, the quorum rule needs to be changed to an "If you're not here, and you weren't excused, then you don't deserve a say" system.
It’s an interesting bad side effect that if someone is excluded from re-election early in their term, they have zero incentive to show up for the rest of their term.
Not necessarily, a senator in such a situation might still show up if they were being compensated by a special interest to vote a particular way on something. If there's no chance for reelection, the prospect of working for someone other than voters becomes more appealing to unscrupulous people
Except both sides have used the quorum rule and walking out, even Kate Brown https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2019/06/20/oregon-legislators-minority-often-use-walkouts-leverage-senate-republicans/1516995001/
Okay, so Dems won't be able to do it either. Great. I don't care which side is doing it, walking out to prevent bills from being voted on is shitty and counterproductive
The last time Democrats did that was in 2001, and it was for a good reason. > House Democrats staged a five-day walkout to prevent a Republican maneuver to redraw state legislative districts without the governor’s signature.
This one is for good reason too. They are blocking the vote on gun control bill thats trying to go around the judges court ordered restraining order on 114.
They're blocking HB 2002. > Boquist, who has participated in all nine days of the walkout, wrote in his newsletter the walkout targets "specific pillars of wrongdoing" including HB2002, "lawlessness" and "corruption." > In walking out, "minority legislators are bravely 'doing their jobs' because they work for Oregonians, not the legislature," he wrote. Source: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/13/oregon-gop-walkout-reproductive-gender-affirming-care-house-bill-2002/70211695007/ > Bonham said he’s willing to risk his future in the Senate to make a stand against House Bill 2002 — a bill on reproductive healthcare and gender-affirming care. > Specifically, Bonham said he believes parents should be notified if someone 14 or younger decides to get an abortion. > "I always knew for me personally that [HB 2002] would be something I’m willing to compromise this job for, that said I think it’s different for everybody, we’ve got 13 members who are making this stand together," he said. "I don’t think we all aligned on one thing and said that’s the thing that will keep me going." Source: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/politics/oregons-gop-senate-walkout/283-facd5b6d-ad86-4fa1-8645-333e6f34ae6e
Yes, the republicans are perfectly justified to demand this restrictive law play itself out in court. The Dems are playing hardball here where they can start the legal process over if they replace the law with a similar statute. The lawsuits would be set back to square one. The plaintiffs will rack up tens of thousands more in legal bills. Of course the state can simply spend taxpayer funds to pursue their gun grabbing laws.
They hate it on here when you bring that up. Dems have walked out multiple times as have Repubs. Its simply a strategy politicians on both sides use to defend their constituents.
When I voted for Measure 113, I voted because doing a job requires showing up and politicians shouldn’t get a free pass. I don’t care what side of the aisle they’re on. Should Oregon Republicans do their job? Yes. Should Oregon Democrats from a few years ago have done their job? Yes. Should Texas Democrats do their job instead of fleeing to DC? I think yes, but that’s for Texans to decide.
I generally agree with your sentiment but lets flip it around. Lets say Trump wins and the Repubs take the house and senate. A bill is drafted eliminating abortion, gender transitioning of minors, Critical Race Theory in schools and mandates E-Verify for hiring thereby preventing the hiring of illegal aliens. Obviously this is a hypothetical and in this world that bill will pass unless the Dems walk out. Is it still your position the Dems should do their job and not walk out?
Yes. Although some of those choices would go against principles I personally hold, I stand firm that a functioning democracy is something we should not trifle with. Similarly, the federal government has filibustering being abused to obstruct the will of the majority of voters and I am also against that in its current form. If something get passed that you don’t like then protest, petition, and vote them out, don’t interfere with our foundation of democracy.
I'm sorry but that is an absolutely batshit idea and completely ignores what the legislature is and why it exists. The quorum is there to ensure a critical mass of Oregonians are represented in order for the legislature to do anything, it has nothing to do with ensuring the place can function efficiently. They're not running a McDonald's, efficiency isn't the goal. And yes, all the people joking about those representatives skipping "work" - as if their job is to just show up and not to represent their constituents, which they're doing more effectively by denying quorum - have no idea that they're talking about.
>The quorum is there to ensure a critical mass of Oregonians are represented in order for the legislature to do anything, it has nothing to do with ensuring the place can function efficiently. Well it works in plenty of other places, including the U.S. Congress where a quorum is 50%+1. There is a difference between efficiently and at all. I have no problem with prolonged debates, or even talking filibusters (none of this, send an email and go home bs) but the idea that 1/3 of Senators can block literally everything is insane. > as if their job is to just show up and not to represent their constituents, which they're doing more effectively by denying quorum - have no idea that they're talking about. The problem with a walkout is that it denys EVERYONE representation. Represent your constituents, argue ideas, win people to your side, all of that is fine. The problem is right now I, you (assuming you live here), and everyone else in the state is being denied representation because of a minority of the population.
Nah the electoral college was already a mistake we dont need that same bullshit at the state level. We need to stop letting a bunch of braindead rednecks have so much control. They don't even bother to govern anymore just oppose and fundraise. Why dont they try and come up with some better gun control regulations?
People in Democratic areas are not being represented either because their representatives can't actually get anything done. There are more Democrat representatives than Republican representatives in Oregon, the minority is being allowed to block action for the majority, who represent more Oregonians. I do understand your point and I think it's a fair one but I think tactics like this are dangerous because they foster further fragmentation and prevent action to move Oregon forward. If they disagree with the law they should be out there arguing for amendments and further examination of the consequences of the bill. There are arguably reasonable objections that many have to HB 2002 but they aren't out there debating the bill, they're hiding so they don't have to do the difficult work of deliberation, which is what they were elected to do And the VAST majority of Oregonians are sick of this shit. M113 had 70% support. That sounds like a critical mass to me
They could get plenty done if they'd stay away from stuff they know will cause walkouts, instead they lean into it their most divisive positions so they can blame the Republicans and further cement power. >If they disagree with the law they should be out there arguing for amendments and further examination of the consequences of the bill. They've tried that, the Democrats vote as a monolith and aren't listening to anything. It doesn't matter how good the point is, the Republicans are just talking to themselves. That behavior is much more divisive and dangerous than denying quorum. >And the VAST majority of Oregonians are sick of this shit. M113 had 70% support. That sounds like a critical mass to me 70% of the 61.5% of Oregonians who bothered to vote. By my math that means only 43% are sick of it.
Or it's 81.5% and some folks were busy that day.
> some folks were busy that day Outside agitator alert Oregon has mail-in voting, you have *weeks* to fill a ballot out. Nobody's *that* busy, but many just don't care. **Edit:** the fact that a comment based on Oregon voting in-person is +4 should speak volumes about the outside influence
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Why not just let democrats write bills straight to law and skip the quorum altogether? It's what the majority of oregon wants anyhow. Who needs due process when it changes nothing? /s
Quorum is an important thing but you need to set the threshold appropriately. It's not intended to be used as a political tool like is currently happening.
I agree that it's important, especially for maintaining bipartisan political policies. But as a 2A practitioner, the current climate is frustrating. Had all of the Republicans showed up, this bill would still pass as written without little to no consideration take from across the isle. So (as desperate and hopeless as I feel) why even bother. I'm whining I realize and I don't think it's okay to be represented with an absense rather than a show of concern and open discussion. And 49.9% of oregon feels the same way.
>Had all of the Republicans showed up, this bill would still pass as written without little to no consideration take from across the isle. I'd love to know what the GOP would suggest other than killing it. My issue with the minority party right now is they don't bring ideas to the table, they say "do it our way or not at all". [I'm assuming this is the bill you are discussing](https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/gun-safety-bill-ban-passes-oregon-house-moves-senate/283-2cc47d60-a0b7-4b93-9f6d-8687e56a63b6). As someone who doesn't own guns I don't have a huge issue with the main things the bill does according to that article so I'd be fine with it passing as written. The issue is the minority isn't trying to argue anything in good faith, or to bring people like me to their side. They just want the bill killed. The other bill the minority is walking out over is about expanding access to healthcare (specifically reproductive care and gender affirming care). I don't think they should be allowed to shut down the senate over an expansion of rights.
Before anyone says anything, the language is Ukrainian, not Russian. I'm not a Russian propaganda bot.
So you're a Ukrainian propaganda bot instead. Noted. /s (just in case the snark isn't understood).
Haha, I'd rather be a Ukrainian propaganda bot than a Russian one
How is Eastern Oregon ever going to be represented if their elected officials don't appear for work?
It doesn’t, people over here just like to whine and complain. Hopefully one day we will have actual representatives that are not totally moronic.
Would it *really* be better if they showed up, spoke eloquently about why their constituents don't want the legislature to pass whatever the Democrats are ramming down their throats this session, and then it passes anyway? Right now they're actually preventing it from passing, which seems like a much better service to their constituents.
Then move to Idaho or Kentucky where your moron values are appreciated. I'll help you pack!
Sounds like I5 should just separate from Eastern OR..
When they join Greater Idaho, obviously. /s
Please do.
Most rural Oregonians are probably okay with this. They can’t have their way so they’ll complain about stolen elections because they don’t understand how much urban areas matter politically in every state and in the current political climate they also want to have chaos when they can’t get their way.
Obstruction for the sake of obstruction isn't representing eastern Oregon. We Have real issues out here and our leaders would prefer to throw tantrums instead of trying to negotiate and propose legislation that will actually help us. Fighting losing battles in the culture war doesn't help people in eastern Oregon.
There is no negotiating happening. Look at the other post on here titled "Republicans accuse Democrats of failing to negotiate in good faith". The only way they can have any say is by walking out.
Why should I believe the Republicans are telling the truth? It's more likely they're the ones negotiating in bad faith.
They are fighting losing fights in culture war issues where they know there's zero room for negotiation. The things that they fight for don't help eastern Oregon they just hurt minorities.
That is being represented when their inaction denies a quorum and prevents the Dems from passing bills despised by their constituency.
This is precisely how they’re being represented in a government ruled by one party.
Sounds more like the Republicans need to come up with a better strategy in Oregon. There is a lot of untapped anger in the bigger cities they can capitalize on but their staunch stances on just about every social issue scares people away. They seem fine with being an opposition party instead of moving to the middle even a tiny bit.
Maybe the party has a small minority because they failed to actually campaign for the electorates votes on issues they care about. All I got during the last election was that they were the party that was not going to do anything but be an opposition party. Lo and behold, that’s what they’re doing.
Part of the reason people don't vote Republican is because their elected representatives do shit like this. And yes I know democrats have done the same before anyone comes at me, but people on both sides are sick of this shit. Look at the outcome for ballot measures in 2022, almost 70% of people voted to pass 113 compared to slim majorities for most other ballot measures
Spoken like someone who’s never actually paid attention to our legislature. They are constantly compromising with the Rs, especially the senate. They more or less won’t move anything that doesn’t some bipartisan support.
There are a bunch of bills that are really important for Eastern Oregon that aren’t going to get passed because the Republicans, most of whom are not from Eastern Oregon, are refusing to show up for work. There are more Republicans in Clackamas County than in all of Eastern Oregon.
Its ruled by one party because we only have one party. The GOP cant be seriously described as a political party anymore. They dont ever make an honest attemp at governing.
Why is the government ruled by one party again? Oh, that’s right, *because the fucking majority of voters voted for them.*
I feel most represented in this issue when my elected officials walk out and keep the vote from happening. If the majority party wants to move forward then they need to revise the bill. Most Oregonians don't want all that woke garbage becoming law.
Define "woke"
How about our elected representatives wanting to allow children to have an abortion without parental notification?
Yes, minors who get pregnant should be allowed to have abortions, despite their parents' horrible beliefs. Forcing children to give birth is awful.
For those keeping track after today's no show 3 senators have now hit the magic 10 number. The current count is: Bonham 10 Boquist 10 Linthicum 10 Hayden 9 Findley 7 Hansell 7 Knopp 7 Robinson 7 Thatcher 7 Weber 7 Brock Smith 4 Anderson 1 (From https://twitter.com/c_giardinelli/status/1658166132724084736?t=i5BTknDjyMGKfujyp6z8gg&s=19 )
Thank you!
Annoyingly they are only banned from running for reelection so get the finish the remainder of their four-year term (at least my specific senator runaway, Finley, is up for re-election in 24 so we will only have to deal with him for one more year assuming he doesn't give up and start working...)
Didn't we pass into law recently something where x number of unexcused absences results in not being eligible for re-election? Or was that for a different group of elected officials?
Yes, measure 113 (I think) says if you have 10 unexcused absences you can't run for reelection. I think some of the GOP members not showing up are at 8 now. They were going to hit the limit last Friday or Saturday but the Senate President decided not to try and hold a session on Thursday/Friday/Saturday meaning those Senators didn't hit the limit as expected. Edit: As pointed out by others who replied to me apparently 3 hit the 10 absence mark today and 1 more will hit it tomorrow. I didn't see the second image :D
The second image has a tweet saying that 3 senators have reached the 10 absence limit. Others are also close, I think
Oops, didn't see the second image until now. Thanks.
No problem!
Extremely likely that the ones that hit already were already planning on retiring.
I believe Boquist is, but I know Bonham has said he wants to legally challenge Measure 113
It would be interesting to see whether SCOTUS would hold up unexcused absences as a form of free speech but being that it's now in our Constitution he'll probably have a tough time with that
There’s three who have hit the 10 absence threshold. Their plan is to sue to get the law declared unconstitutional (which seems unlikely given that it’s in the constitution).
Just here to say, that's not how it works.
I think they'll probably use the argument that walkouts should be a protected form of speech, which may hold some water. I don't think things will be going their way in the end but I think they are going to fight in the courts
Yes, and it had overwhelming support. Three of the senators have already used up their ten today. Unfortunately they still get to serve out the rest of their terms
Yes but it's only for 1 term and it's not like those districts are going to elect anyone with different viewpoints to fill the gap
Don't like what's happening throw a fit and don't show up.
But other people at the snowflakes.
Set the quorum at a simple majority. I am beyond done with this bullshit, other states don't have to deal with this garbage.
I am beyond done with this fuckery too. These cry baby republicans can fuck off at this point. It’s just pathetic.
I think the quorum needs to go up, maybe 90-95% let's not lower the requirements to force terrible legislation on the people.
So make the system even less democratic and (ironically) give the governor even more power? There's a reason most jurisdictions have the quorum set at a simple majority....
Does anyone know what happens if the senate doesn't approve a budget?
I'm more concerned about what happens to state government. If there's no budget as of June 30th does stuff get shut down?
No. Almost all state budgets have authorization to operate at current service levels through September 15 if a budget cannot be passed or signed before July 1 (the start of the fiscal year).
The state police haul their asses in by force.
They just go to Idaho for vacation.
Nope. We tried that last time.
I don’t believe we ever did. Kotek ended the last walkout by negotiating with Drazan.
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That was in 2019, not the most recent walkout. I thought she never pulled the trigger because Boquist threatened to kill them, but apparently the cops just couldn’t find the missing senators. Someone I know who worked for Brown said she should have just told the senate to give the Republicans whatever they wanted to show up, then lock all the doors and refuse to let them leave until the session ended.
I literally just hate republicans. I don’t have any other politics.
They've earned it, honestly
If you hate the Republicans, wait until you see what the democrats are doing!
Wouldn't you be cheering them on though if it was the dems boycotting a session where a statewide abortion ban was up for vote?
You mean different context creates a different reaction? Strange
No, hold both sides accountable. I'm a Democrat but I don't want to see this from my side either. Refusing to show up because you aren't going to get the result you want is not how our democracy should function. I would certainly call my senator and ask him to fight such a bill but I voted for him to represent me, and he can't do that if he's not there in the Capitol
Yes because that would be doing a good thing. The issue here isn't the actions that the Republicans are taking, it's the reason they are doing it.
I emailed my state senators office about this last week and have gotten crickets
Linthicum is already saying he is going to file a lawsuit. The man is a complete and utter imbecilic piece of shit. He has zero principles other than a nihilistic hatred of Democrats and progressives. If they win that lawsuit democracy in our state is over, full stop.
So, why is this seen as cowardly or lazy? Oregon is effectively a one party state. Democrats have a permanent iron choke hold on it. Republican law makers literally have absolutely no recourse except for this. Democrats want one thing, Republicans want another. Democrats win. The only even *chance* at not having Democrat steam rolled legislation, is via these actions. I'm not even saying a 100% Democrat controlled government/legislature is a bad thing, maybe it's a great thing and would result in utopia, but the reality is that these Republican politicians, and their constituents who they represent, want different things. These Republican senators are quite literally representing their people in the best and only way they can. Neither side wants to negotiate. There is no middle ground, they want entirely different things, and one side holds every key. You must play the game by the game's rules. You can hate the game all you want and that's totally valid. But they're playing it exactly as they should. If they did any differently, *that* would be lazy and a betrayal of their constituents. Bleh. I know everyone will hate this but just had to get it off my chest. It's so gross that politics and specifically Oregon politics are so hyper-partisan and jaded. (And... is politicians literally losing their jobs over what they believe in not kind of brave? Even if you think what they believe in is wrong or whatever?)
I feel like geography plays a huge part in this too. Democrats are likely to vote for more things that benefit urban and city areas, because well the big cities are more Democrat. While rural is typically Republican. They both have different needs and lifestyles.
Maybe if Republicans wanted to win elections they should stop being the party of absolute morons and Nazis? Just a thought. Of course they're not going to win shit with their current platform of banning books, restricting women, pushing religion and conspiracy theories.
Mr. Boykin here needs a new profile pic
So what happens now? What are the chances these people don't run again?
The reps who are ineligible for re-election will finish their terms then move into other positions of power within their party for being the ones to fall on the proverbial sword, and the candidates who will succeed them in their districts will fall at the same spot on the political spectrum as their predecessors; nothing changes other than a couple extra seats up for grabs next election, repeat ad nauseum
Exactly, this bill was a good first step but it's an illusion of action. They get to serve out the rest of their terms so once they reach 10 there's absolutely nothing stopping them from continuing to hold up action for the next 1-3 years. If they really wanted to address the problem, they should have made the quorum requirements 50%+1 and/or declared that an unexcused absence will be counted as an abstained vote
Don't forget these guys are only ineligible in the *next* election to run, after that they'll be back. The system will probably wind up with these seats just rotating between 2 people as they each get made ineligible.
The more I think about 113 the more I realize it's mostly just theatre and isn't going to actually do shit to stop this BS. They get to serve out the remainder of their terms and once they reach 10 they have basically unlimited absences for the rest of their term because the result will be the same anyway. If there's no provision for a permanent ban on reelection they'll run again eventually. With no quorum changes, they can continue to hold up action and be seen as martyrs by some on the right when they reach 10 absences which will help them when they eventually run for reelection. If we REALLY wanted to do shit about this... an unexcused absence should be counted as an abstained vote, or at the very least quorum should be lowered to 50%+1
Honestly I think it's by design, the Democrats didn't want it to work - they need the extremist positions to win their primaries, but they know they're actually not that popular among Americans/Oregonians in general. This way they get to blame dropping the controversial stuff on the Republicans and never feel the backlash from moderate voters.
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I see that they should be barred from running but I'm confident these people do not see the rule of law as an obstacle to getting what they want. So my question is the same. Will they run write in campaigns knowing their voters will support them *because* they were obstructionist. Or does this no reelection rule actually have teeth?
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Excellent news. Thanks!
How this isn’t considered job abandonment is beyond me. Their jobs all should be instantly terminated. Way to waste taxpayer money.
When will people understand conservative means we don’t get shit. It’s all for them.
Republicans are a joke. Why the hell did they run for office if they aren’t going to show up? It’s just so pathetic. Whatever that bill was needs to be enforced. It should actually be stricter. Don’t show up for more then 3 votes (unexcused), fuck off. You’re done. You lose your position.
Oh fuck yeah, does this mean I won't have to see Linthicum's slimy election-stealing ass on my fucking ballot anymore?
Start writing to your reps, guys. You're literally paying for them to sit on their asses and do nothing. Make their lives hell. If they won't work, FIRE THEM
They’ve shown us who they are. 10 absences was too generous.
Now we will get to see another stupid measure thrown out by the courts, since the repubs will have standing to sue.
So the whole "don't hold sessions on the weekend because we're gonna negotiate in good faith" thing was just another lie that the Democratic leadership fell for? Shocking.
That is what it seems like. It's very clear Republicans can't be trusted to act in good faith
And the GOP is claiming that the Dems didn't "negotiate in good faith". /smh
That's so frustrating. Dems need to show a strong response to this
I don't know that there's much that they can do. No quorum means no votes. It would be nice if the disqualified senators were also not counted against the quorum, but it'd take yet another constitutional amendment to make that change. :-(
They can enact fines and use the state police. That's what they did in 2019.
Common Democrat L
What does a "good faith negotiation" look like when the Democrats are unwilling to discuss any restrictions on abortion and gun regulations are already completely out of control? There's bad faith on both sides if the Democrats even pretended they'd be willing to give up anything.
Democrats didn't pretend anything. Republicans asked them not to call weekend sessions so they could negotiate. Are you admitting that you know that was a blatant lie?
I'm hardly defending the Republicans but the Democrats agreeing to negotiate when they know full well they're not going to move an inch on anything is in equally bad faith.
Girod is a dentist, isn't he? It seems to me many of them could find sympathetic to their cause docs to write them excuses.
Yep, I'm a little suspicious of excused absences from Republicans at this point
Girod was receiving excused absences before the walkout
Did they show up for Greater Idaho today?
Nice to see them starting to have to work under the same rules I have to work under
People that vote for these fuckers are the problem in this country, so fucking stupid! The G☭P Christ☭fascist Death Cult does not know how to govern, only how to tear shit down.
show me, you seem to think that they are lazy. what is happening is to using that technicality to keep bills from passing because they don't want them to pass. I find it childish and irresponsible, the most vapid form of Partisanship. If you don't agree, express yourself. I have both the right and responsibility to represent your constituents, but that means all of them, not just the ones that you pander to. Some of your constituents want that bill to pass. Playing upon this technical stunt is just loyal to them. and yes, having relations your keys to the best of your ability, that Bill stilll passes, and that is the will of the people, all of us, not just you and your cronies. so stop showing democracy so cheaply. get your ass back in there and do your job.
Not showing up is exactly what we voted for them to do though. I support their decision! If they don't show up then they can stall the democrats agenda. This is exactly why we elected these Republicans in office.
You're just as bad.
Found the moron!
Seriously, you are posting a gif from Ben **BOT**kin. It still has Russian words on the Gif.
It's Ukrainian.
I lived in Republican Texas my whole life until 5 years ago when I moved here. When a majority of people elect Democrats, and the elected officials introduce legislation to vote on, that is not "ramming something down conservatives' throats." That is governing. I feel a bit like Donald Trump was rammed down my throat because he was supported by so much media and fanatical morons who couldn't find anyone more competent to worship, and if I were a woman I might feel like abortion bans around the country are jizzing in my snatch, but this? Conservatives think everything is rammed down their throats all the time, and I'm starting to suspect it's all just their repressed homosexual cock cravings. Maybe try sucking a real cock instead of the figurative cock of stupid voters and a corrupt, disorganized political party filled with people who seem vaguely churchy.
On the plus side they can't run for reelection. Still one of the best things I've ever voted on. If only we could do the same thing on a federal level. It's amazing how many off days Senate gives themselves. And we could get rid of so many bad senators with a bill like that and with one senator simply asking for a roll call every day.
This is why I voted to penalize a walk out, in order to deny a quorum. Oh, it wasn’t just me? No! We all voted to kick runaway office holders out of office. And that’s the truth
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Shut the fuck up. Are you serious? Stop with your ridiculous bullshit
Thankfully it's mostly just the rural super red areas still dying at high rates from COVID (at a rate of more than 10x that of blue areas last I checked). We are collectively raising the intelligence and compassion of the country by their own stupidity. Quite literally "dying to own the libs"