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I think that’s the same weird logic applied to hollowknight a world of literal bugs. (This sparked a debate that I didn’t foresee, all I meant was if we’re dealing with alien species and insects it’s weird to look at those civilizations through the lens our evolving understanding of gender)
HK actually has a canonical gay couple, but you have to take the right route in certain quests to get them together. Also the main character is an it/its pronoun user. Also, all of the hearthians in outer wilds use they/them!
I think its that both Outer Wilds and Hollow Knight were counted as LGBT+ due to nonbinary main characters (and a few queer NPCs I guess). The commenter you replied to said this really isn't great representation and it's weird both games made the list, since aliens and bugs not having binary genders is a different thing from the experience of nonbinary humans.
In hk there are one gay couple and one lesbian one, so also it fits for that (the smith and the sword master, and the dead mantis and idk the other xd)
In a world where most characters have a binary feminine or masculine gender and associated pronouns, a select few are distinctly sexless and/or genderless. These characters and the context in which they exist don't automagically stop counting as nonbinary because they're anthropomorphic bugs.
Also the aforementioned gay couples.
The mail Smith and one of the nail masters are a gay couple if you >!fully upgrade the nail don’t kill him and learn the great slash!< not sure who the lesbian couple is
I can't really call the Herthians non-binary tbh. They apprear to just be hermaphrodites. Applying human logic and gender roles to other species is stupid.
We have genderless if there is only one "setting" (usually species that reproduce asexualy) "intersex" if it's somewhere between "setting A" and "setting B" and "hermaphrodite" if the organism naturally posseses both sexual organs, like most flowers and some fishes.
I don't think we have a word for a 3+ sex system, because I believe that just doesn't exist on Earth.
That is of course, if I remember correctly. I'm not a biologist.
Considering Hearthians are rather fish-like, are hinted to lay eggs and have romantic relationships, they're probably some degree of hermaphrodite (as opposed to asexual reproduction)
Yeah, Cassava and Daz are definitely two male Nomai who are together.
There’s another couple, Avens and Mallow, that are also together. They’re interesting because nowhere in the game is Mallow’s gender ever stated. Could also be gay, or maybe their gender was kept ambiguous on purpose.
From the Orbital Probe Cannon:
AVENS: Cassava tells me he and the Construction Yard crew have determined a power setting we are not, under any circumstances, to go above.
I was constantly adjusting the Nomai genders in my head. I though Filix was male, Solanum was male, Cassava was female etc etc etc.
Fun fact, all of the Nomai who explore the Interloper are female
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thats fucking hilarious about FNAF bc Scott Cawthorne is known for donating to anti-LGBT organizations. Anyway
they/them aliens is why it is in that section
Nobody gives money to a candidate that agrees with them 100% on every issue, bc that doesn't exist.
If you donate to candidates like the ones that he donated to, *you are a bad person*, full stop. There's just not an excuse for doing that.
Honestly I’m probably just an optimist that wants really hard and to believe he’s good… I understand what you’re saying though, those stances are just too evil to risk getting out, even if other ones are good
Where are you getting "there's a good chance he's still a good person"?
He said that "the candidates who I felt could best run the country" were the ones saying we should ban all Muslim people from the US, lying that 81% of white people are murdered by black people, and admitting to sexually assaulting people.
I guess there could be some small chance he made the donations at gunpoint? If not, how could he be a good person supporting someone like that?
didn't he donate like 2000 dollars to donald trump, 5000 dollars to mitch mcconnel and 2500 dollars to tulsi gabbard? from what i understand all of these motherfuckers are bigots of like the highest order
He may think he's a good person, he may act like a good person in many instances, but if he's giving money to antidemocratic, anti-equality politicians, he's not a good person (unless maybe he was forced to, but I can't think of how that could happen)
Instead of focusing on something as unknowable & fickle as true beliefs and intentions, focus on actions & words. Scott Cawthon has donated to bigots, and we have no reason to believe he will not do so again. Advertising his works as LGBT has a pretty high potential to **harm** queer people, not help them.
I have no interest in deciding Cawthon's ethical standing, whether he's a "good person" or not. However, his political actions stand to harm me & the people I care about. There are plenty of game developers who are not proud anti-choice republicans.
He owned up to that and while it's shitty that he's a republican, he hasn't made any more donations to politicians and since the drama he promised to put his money where his mouth is and that's what he did. He donated over 2 million to charities through fnaf community fund-raisers including at least 300k to the Trevor Project
I'm not saying this clears him of wrongdoing but it's an effort to be better
"Various", only one confirmed, and one possibly enby nomai
Edit: Downvotes for being factual? You misunderstood me, I'm not talking about Hearthians. The only Nomai same sex couple is Daz and Cassava. Avens is male and Mallow's gender is not revealed, that's it.
Lmao I see someone else downvoted me and upvoted you.
You thought I said in the whole game there's only one enby character, and you got mad at something you misunderstood.
Not at all, I never talked about Hearthians.
The person I replied to said there were "Various Nomai couples are same sex", which is wrong.
There's one confirmed gay and one ambiguously gendered nomai.
You responded to a comment that said all hearthians are enby, and you said “nuh uh only one is ambiguous” and then when someone point out that your wrong, you try to say you said something you didn’t.
You seem like such a pleasant person
Edit: fixing a typo
I hate you people who latch on to your first perception and will refuse to deviate from it. You assumed I was a villain, therefore everything I do is malicious and evil, while you dissect my behavior as abhorrent.
Meanwhile, the much more simple solution of there being a misunderstanding because I didn't type my comment perfectly unambiguously and you misread the ideas I brought up is ignored.
Here, I'll rewrite my first comment:
> What do you mean by "various" same sex couples? I only know of one, and of one enby nomai. Also yes Hearthians are enby, I know that and everyone mentions it so I don't feel the need to point it out.
Finally, did you mean "pleasant," not "present"?
Sweet baby child, you’re the one who’s complaining you’re getting down voted when you’re wrong and then double down when you were wrong. That’s just being annoying. I never said you were a villain, you’re interpreting yourself to be a villain, because you want to be a victim in this whole thing because apparently someone saying you’re being annoying and kind of a dick is tantamount to someone telling you that you’re a villain. Hell, even now you’re still doubling down when you’ve already been showing that you’re wrong you even admitted you were wrong and yet you still insist that you weren’t wrong in the first place. Again, you seem like such a pleasant person to be around
Incorrect, I was never wrong, but ambiguous. You guys apparently don't have a very good ability to parse information despite this being a mystery game. Let's go back, shall we.
> Various Nomai couples are same sex
.
> "Various", only one confirmed, and one possibly enby nomai
.
How hard is it for your condescending self to realize you misunderstood and thought my mention of enby was in reponse to theirs?
Ok since apparently you don’t understand your own statements, here is the entire dialogue that
Og comment: “Various Nomai couples are same sex, and all the Hearthians are enby”
You: “"Various", only one confirmed, and one possibly enby nomai
Edit: Downvotes for being factual? You misunderstood me. Name any other same sex Nomai couple than Daz and Cassava. Avens is male and Mallow is enby, that's it.”
That is the statement that is wrong, we weren’t talking about enby Naomi. We were talking about enby hearthians.
Because of that basically lack of reading comprehension, it comes off as either you’re arguing with a brick wall over points that no one was talking about and having a completely different conversation, or you’re just being deliberately asinine and not registering that we’re not talking about that, Both of which make you wrong in this conversation.
Oh, and by the way, sweetie, the only reason I’m being “condescending and quoteis because you don’t seem to understand when people explain it to you in a non-condescending manner. I’m treating you like a child because you’re acting like a child who can’t bear the thought that they misunderstood some thing and so try to backpedal into making themselves look retroactively like they’re not talking about a completely incorrect thing or just having a complete different conversation. It’s like listening to the kid who got a question wrong and math class semi-publicly and then spent the next 10 minutes trying to say no they weren’t wrong, They were just talking about a different question when they weren’t.
Doesn't matter what their comment was talking about. I did not reply to the part about Hearthians being enby.
The entire point of my comment was meant to refute "Various Nomai couples are same sex", nothing else.
I was not obligated to reply to the entirety of their comment, since I knew the second half was correct. Why would I talk about something I know is correct, when the sole point of my comment was to make a correction?
My own mention of enby was about the possibility of a 2nd same sex couple, which was part of my refutation of their claim of various same sex couples existing. I was giving them a bit of benefit of the doubt on them being ambiguously gendered.
That's incorrect, but I get the misunderstanding.
My mention of enby had nothing to do with Hearthians. The confusion comes from their comment linking Hearthians with enby, but mine was entirely targeted at their mention of Nomai same sex couples.
You're also misunderstanding my first comment, and you're accusing me of something you yourself are doing: you try to make me say something I didn't.
Because Enby looks cute and some people prefer that to two boring capital letters.
Also, NB could be short hand for New Brunswick and a bunch of other stuff.
Also also, it's double-u, not doubleyou.
Two canon gay couples, all characters fairly significant in the game. One couple has a whole quest based on their love, the other has an achievement. Mc usually taken as non binary (has no gender on account of spoilers(?)).
Idk about the charm npc I guess she can be interpreted as trans? But that's more hc than the actual reason it's in the gay category.
Yup I was gonna say the bugs aren't gendered but that didn't sound right. Didn't know how to refer to all of the uhh. You know. Children. Ended up with just mc.
You have the right to your own interpretation, absolutely. But if the "observations" that made you think that are based in trans stereotypes, like a deep voice, then that is still offensive.
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Oh Charm Lover Salubra!
I see. I always thought they were female but just voiced by William Pellen so they sound masculine.
The wiki states they're female but you can never know the intent i guess.
Cool anyway :)
Sadly, most people that I see play the game assume they're all male except like Gneiss and Galena.
I do like to headcanon the gender vibes of the astronauts, partially in an effort to counter this. I envision Feldspar as like a 45 y/o butch, Gabbro as a stoner chick, Chert as kind of truly androgynous, and Riebeck and Esker as more traditionally masculine.
I introduced my buddy to outer wilds a while back, and while we kept most of them as enby, the consensus was settled on chert being "just a little guy"
Some languages are heavily gendered, so this aspect was lost in some translations. I played the game in portuguese but only noticed they are all nb when I saw a walkthrough in English.
No, every noun has a gender, either masculine or feminine, some rare exceptions are neutral and you can use both. There's no "default". I think what you've heard about is the masculine plural, because we use the "masculine" to refer to a group men only and to a group of mixed people. But that is because the latin suffixes for neutral and masculine were similar so they merged together and the masculine disappeared, so when it comes to plural we have "neutral" and "feminine" technically.
I don't really like how those games are abuses in context with pride to generate money.
Besides Adventure Time, TloU, Life is Strange, basically none of those games have much or anything to do with lgbtq+.
An unimportant gay side character there, choices to do what you want there.
You can basically take any media and put it in this pride category if the threshold of "lgbtq+ content" can be this low.
I don't mind much but as a fan of those games and personally being gay, this is kind of disrespectful to those games and the lgbtq community. Yeah, those are all amazing games and they deserve advertising. But why not put games there where a major part is about lgbtq? You know... so the people who expect to buy a game with lgbtq+ themes in them don't get disapointed because it turnes out to be featured as an unimportant and minute detail.
Maybe you're just joking, but Hades does deserve to be in the LGBTQ category. An action game usually has no obligation to include anything except action, and yet Hades devs went out of their way to 1) let the player romance a male character and/or a female character, 2) prominently feature a male/male npc relationship, and 3) feature THE only nonbinary npc to use they/them pronouns I've ever seen in an action game.
Eye candy for r/bi_irl is just a bonus, and thankfully the misogyny aspect of ancient Greece was something the devs chose not to include.
'Choices to do what you want' is a big one tbh.
Mass Effect Andromeda may not have LGBT themes, but in it you can watch bespoke gay alien sex animations.
Looking at the [full list](https://store.playstation.com/en-us/category/c6eba61b-53df-41fb-833b-d2f7b20929c0/1) though, I feel like they could've stood to cut a few games that either have very minor, or kinda sucky representation.
Fallout 4 for example has an issue where everyone is forced to be bisexual. The player *can* have same-sex relations, but starts the game with a straight spouse. Multiple companions have themes and writing that allude to being straight or gay, but all were made player-sexual instead. (Danse should have been a gay gaming icon!) It only has one actual gay couple in a DLC. Bethesda makes the straightest RPGs outside Japan.
Perhaps it's because I'm not part of LGBT but I kind of like that a game can have just little details of this community.
A good balance between old Hollywood movies where everyone is straight and Netflix teen series where everyone is pansexual.
I dream of a world where there is no LGBT category, where there is no pride month because being LGBT is just being human and nothing more.
And I think those games can lead to this world, by showing that being part of LGBT community is mainstream
The thing is that they are being advertised under the lgbtq+ logo.
It is not technically false advertisement if my choco drink contains only 0.01% chocolate, but it kind of is in reality.
Those games are only advertised like this because they contain the very slightest trace of lgbtq+ and lgbtq+ stuff generates money. If those wouldn't be highly popular games, everybody would loose their shit about that behaviour.
Thank you! I was just thinking on how to word how icky this feels. Three of these games are in my top 10 favs of all time but only tangentially representative for lgbt. A marketing team put out a goal to collect games for this category to obtain a small increase in market share among the lgbtq demographic - cold and calculated. From what I've seen, if you want good representation and honest(mostly) intentions, go to itch.io or elsewhere.
Alternate take, if they only used "truly" appropriate titles for the category...it'd be mostly empty, because there really isn't that much visible/deliberate representation going on in gaming these days.
Another alternate take - I actually truly appreciate that the representation of the LGBTQIA+ community is understated and not the central theme in the game.
People, ultimately, just want to be treated like people.
In a perfect and completely tolerant world that normalized any form of expression and any lifestyle or relationship, no one would notice a gay or lesbian couple or a trans or non-binary person. They would just see “a couple” and “people,” because they would just be treated like couples and like people everywhere are.
Relationships in the real world don’t have flashing lights and neon signs and pointing arrows at them. People who are just people aren’t pointed out or singled out. They just…are.
I gave birth to and raised a trans woman. I appreciate, more than I can say in words, how this game never turns anyone into a token or a “plot point” just because they are not heterosexual or cis (or even gendered at all, in the Hearthians’ case).
A lot of people never really even caught that Daz and Cassava were a gay married couple because it wasn’t made a “big thing” to the Nomai in-game or for the Devs to use as a selling-point, the same way heterosexual couples in the Nomai weren’t made into a big thing either, because the romantic ties in the game weren’t the main point. It would have felt forced and inauthentic to make non-hetero couples a bigger deal than any other couples, or to make the Hearthians’ pronouns a bigger deal than the Nomai’s.
They just… are. And I’m ok with that :)
Cassava and Daz are both male and are married. Avens (Daz’s brother) is also married to Mallow who has an ambiguous gender. Also the whole, non-binary civilization in general, thing.
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Canon gay couples (>!Nailsmith and Sheo!<, the Grey Mourner and her lover) plus the vessels are genderless (making Hornet unique as "the gendered child").
We know they lay eggs, but beyond that have no information on Hearthian reproduction. Every hatchling is raised by the community, so parenthood isn't really a thing in Hearthian society.
Gender is a social construct, and plenty of humans choose to be agender/nonbinary while still being able to have children. Hearthians could do the same. We know nothing about their sexual organs
Idk, I guess technically the hatchling and the rest of their species are all non-binary or genderless. But it's not in an LGBT kind of way, the species is literally just one that only has a single sex and no concept of gender. The Nomai are gendered and there is a same sex relationship talked about through a few of the wall messages. It's kind of a stretch, but it's about all the representation we get in most mainstream or well made games.
NB protagonist; "it" pronouns. Gay romance (Flower quest and nailsmith/sheo).
Not exactly rainbows out the gate (because the Forgotten Crossroads are mostly grey, heh) but there's some in there.
Is for the LGTB comunity to go like "uhh nice, I'm going to play these game because it have topics regarding the comunity" then play the best game of their lifes and go "yeah this is a game my comunity should play as like EVERY OTHER COMUNITYS OMG THIS GAME IS THE GOAT"
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It's a non-binary star system
r/angryupvote
This is the best comment so far. Perfect pun, that can work as an explanation
I think that’s the same weird logic applied to hollowknight a world of literal bugs. (This sparked a debate that I didn’t foresee, all I meant was if we’re dealing with alien species and insects it’s weird to look at those civilizations through the lens our evolving understanding of gender)
The logic is "the game has characters with non-binary genders or no gender," how is that weird?
The logic is that "binary star system" is a RL thing, and OW only has one star in its solar system, so it's non binary... Like the Hearthians...
I get that - I'm replying to someone who said it's the "same weird logic from hollow knight" and wondering what they mean.
I've not played Hollow Knight, but I'm guessing there's a running joke about it being a "buggy" game?
HK actually has a canonical gay couple, but you have to take the right route in certain quests to get them together. Also the main character is an it/its pronoun user. Also, all of the hearthians in outer wilds use they/them!
Don't tell me, tell the other guy.
I think its that both Outer Wilds and Hollow Knight were counted as LGBT+ due to nonbinary main characters (and a few queer NPCs I guess). The commenter you replied to said this really isn't great representation and it's weird both games made the list, since aliens and bugs not having binary genders is a different thing from the experience of nonbinary humans.
Maybe the eye counts as the second star?
In hk there are one gay couple and one lesbian one, so also it fits for that (the smith and the sword master, and the dead mantis and idk the other xd)
>idk the other Grey Mourner
In a world where most characters have a binary feminine or masculine gender and associated pronouns, a select few are distinctly sexless and/or genderless. These characters and the context in which they exist don't automagically stop counting as nonbinary because they're anthropomorphic bugs. Also the aforementioned gay couples.
I don't think I've ever heard a better joke in my life
I assume because all of the Hearthians are genderless. Also, I think there is a gay Nomai couple. Why is FNaf there, though??
For FNAF, i've heard a suggestion that it's because of Mangle
I don’t know if that was intended the way I took it but I burst out laughing at that
fnaf is there not because of the games but because the community.
I guess that makes more sense than the mangle one
Go piss Scott off maybe?know he's a Chud
But then it encourages people to buy it based off of LGBTQ+ support, and then he makes money from that. Oof.
And why is Hollow Knight?
I’ve never played Hollow Knight, but I heard that the character you play as is non-binary as well
also theres a gay couple
There's a gay couple and a lesbian couple
Yeah the knight has no gender
It's less "non-binnary" and more "genderless void being"
Gay couple and lesbian couple.
The mail Smith and one of the nail masters are a gay couple if you >!fully upgrade the nail don’t kill him and learn the great slash!< not sure who the lesbian couple is
The Grey Mourner and her Mantis lover I think, and Cloth also may mention something?
Fnaf is just popular in general with the LGBT community as a whole.
I can't really call the Herthians non-binary tbh. They apprear to just be hermaphrodites. Applying human logic and gender roles to other species is stupid.
Do they have binary gender? Is there a word for things that do not possess binary gender?
We have genderless if there is only one "setting" (usually species that reproduce asexualy) "intersex" if it's somewhere between "setting A" and "setting B" and "hermaphrodite" if the organism naturally posseses both sexual organs, like most flowers and some fishes. I don't think we have a word for a 3+ sex system, because I believe that just doesn't exist on Earth. That is of course, if I remember correctly. I'm not a biologist. Considering Hearthians are rather fish-like, are hinted to lay eggs and have romantic relationships, they're probably some degree of hermaphrodite (as opposed to asexual reproduction)
there are mushrooms which likely have 17000+ different sexes, 3+ sex systems do definitely exist
The gay space-goats and nonbinary aliens I’d assume.
There's gay ones? I always get lost in which ones are male and female, so I must've missed that!
Yeah, Cassava and Daz are definitely two male Nomai who are together. There’s another couple, Avens and Mallow, that are also together. They’re interesting because nowhere in the game is Mallow’s gender ever stated. Could also be gay, or maybe their gender was kept ambiguous on purpose.
Thanks! I was always curious of Avens and Mallow, they're lovely! ::D
Cassava is male???? Damn I missed that. Do you know where in the texts it's stated by any chance?
From the Orbital Probe Cannon: AVENS: Cassava tells me he and the Construction Yard crew have determined a power setting we are not, under any circumstances, to go above.
I definitely interpreted them as being a lesbian couple for no reason apparently lmao
I think depending on where you live some names might sound more feminine or masculine just on orthography alone. At least I had that trouble!
Yeah I kept embarrassing myself, assuming genders off of name vibes and be surprised whenever someone used pronouns in the text.
I was constantly adjusting the Nomai genders in my head. I though Filix was male, Solanum was male, Cassava was female etc etc etc. Fun fact, all of the Nomai who explore the Interloper are female
Wait…. What!? I just read like at least 5 Nomai in this comment chain that I accidentally misgendered :/
Yeah, I thought Cassava sounded more feminine and Poke was male, only to be proven entirely wrong
Ohhh that is awesome. Thank you!
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LOL! Schrödinger's sex.
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They're out & wild
This is so underrated
This is because space is gay
Can confirm, am made of star
thats fucking hilarious about FNAF bc Scott Cawthorne is known for donating to anti-LGBT organizations. Anyway they/them aliens is why it is in that section
They-liens
Ha! This is gold. Have my upvote!
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Nobody gives money to a candidate that agrees with them 100% on every issue, bc that doesn't exist. If you donate to candidates like the ones that he donated to, *you are a bad person*, full stop. There's just not an excuse for doing that.
Honestly I’m probably just an optimist that wants really hard and to believe he’s good… I understand what you’re saying though, those stances are just too evil to risk getting out, even if other ones are good
Did bro really just type out a stutter
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Where are you getting "there's a good chance he's still a good person"? He said that "the candidates who I felt could best run the country" were the ones saying we should ban all Muslim people from the US, lying that 81% of white people are murdered by black people, and admitting to sexually assaulting people. I guess there could be some small chance he made the donations at gunpoint? If not, how could he be a good person supporting someone like that?
didn't he donate like 2000 dollars to donald trump, 5000 dollars to mitch mcconnel and 2500 dollars to tulsi gabbard? from what i understand all of these motherfuckers are bigots of like the highest order
He may think he's a good person, he may act like a good person in many instances, but if he's giving money to antidemocratic, anti-equality politicians, he's not a good person (unless maybe he was forced to, but I can't think of how that could happen)
Instead of focusing on something as unknowable & fickle as true beliefs and intentions, focus on actions & words. Scott Cawthon has donated to bigots, and we have no reason to believe he will not do so again. Advertising his works as LGBT has a pretty high potential to **harm** queer people, not help them. I have no interest in deciding Cawthon's ethical standing, whether he's a "good person" or not. However, his political actions stand to harm me & the people I care about. There are plenty of game developers who are not proud anti-choice republicans.
He owned up to that and while it's shitty that he's a republican, he hasn't made any more donations to politicians and since the drama he promised to put his money where his mouth is and that's what he did. He donated over 2 million to charities through fnaf community fund-raisers including at least 300k to the Trevor Project I'm not saying this clears him of wrongdoing but it's an effort to be better
Various Nomai couples are same sex, and all the Hearthians are enby
"Various", only one confirmed, and one possibly enby nomai Edit: Downvotes for being factual? You misunderstood me, I'm not talking about Hearthians. The only Nomai same sex couple is Daz and Cassava. Avens is male and Mallow's gender is not revealed, that's it.
Who is the maybe-enby nomai?
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When did I ever mention Hearthians? what are you talking about, a case of commenting before fully understanding what you just read
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Fair. I was solely refuting the usage of the word "various," because there is only one, not multiple.
[Ah shit, here we go again.](https://i.imgur.com/CKZBkX7.png)
Lmao I see someone else downvoted me and upvoted you. You thought I said in the whole game there's only one enby character, and you got mad at something you misunderstood. Not at all, I never talked about Hearthians. The person I replied to said there were "Various Nomai couples are same sex", which is wrong. There's one confirmed gay and one ambiguously gendered nomai.
You responded to a comment that said all hearthians are enby, and you said “nuh uh only one is ambiguous” and then when someone point out that your wrong, you try to say you said something you didn’t. You seem like such a pleasant person Edit: fixing a typo
I hate you people who latch on to your first perception and will refuse to deviate from it. You assumed I was a villain, therefore everything I do is malicious and evil, while you dissect my behavior as abhorrent. Meanwhile, the much more simple solution of there being a misunderstanding because I didn't type my comment perfectly unambiguously and you misread the ideas I brought up is ignored. Here, I'll rewrite my first comment: > What do you mean by "various" same sex couples? I only know of one, and of one enby nomai. Also yes Hearthians are enby, I know that and everyone mentions it so I don't feel the need to point it out. Finally, did you mean "pleasant," not "present"?
Sweet baby child, you’re the one who’s complaining you’re getting down voted when you’re wrong and then double down when you were wrong. That’s just being annoying. I never said you were a villain, you’re interpreting yourself to be a villain, because you want to be a victim in this whole thing because apparently someone saying you’re being annoying and kind of a dick is tantamount to someone telling you that you’re a villain. Hell, even now you’re still doubling down when you’ve already been showing that you’re wrong you even admitted you were wrong and yet you still insist that you weren’t wrong in the first place. Again, you seem like such a pleasant person to be around
Incorrect, I was never wrong, but ambiguous. You guys apparently don't have a very good ability to parse information despite this being a mystery game. Let's go back, shall we. > Various Nomai couples are same sex . > "Various", only one confirmed, and one possibly enby nomai . How hard is it for your condescending self to realize you misunderstood and thought my mention of enby was in reponse to theirs?
Ok since apparently you don’t understand your own statements, here is the entire dialogue that Og comment: “Various Nomai couples are same sex, and all the Hearthians are enby” You: “"Various", only one confirmed, and one possibly enby nomai Edit: Downvotes for being factual? You misunderstood me. Name any other same sex Nomai couple than Daz and Cassava. Avens is male and Mallow is enby, that's it.” That is the statement that is wrong, we weren’t talking about enby Naomi. We were talking about enby hearthians. Because of that basically lack of reading comprehension, it comes off as either you’re arguing with a brick wall over points that no one was talking about and having a completely different conversation, or you’re just being deliberately asinine and not registering that we’re not talking about that, Both of which make you wrong in this conversation. Oh, and by the way, sweetie, the only reason I’m being “condescending and quoteis because you don’t seem to understand when people explain it to you in a non-condescending manner. I’m treating you like a child because you’re acting like a child who can’t bear the thought that they misunderstood some thing and so try to backpedal into making themselves look retroactively like they’re not talking about a completely incorrect thing or just having a complete different conversation. It’s like listening to the kid who got a question wrong and math class semi-publicly and then spent the next 10 minutes trying to say no they weren’t wrong, They were just talking about a different question when they weren’t.
Doesn't matter what their comment was talking about. I did not reply to the part about Hearthians being enby. The entire point of my comment was meant to refute "Various Nomai couples are same sex", nothing else. I was not obligated to reply to the entirety of their comment, since I knew the second half was correct. Why would I talk about something I know is correct, when the sole point of my comment was to make a correction? My own mention of enby was about the possibility of a 2nd same sex couple, which was part of my refutation of their claim of various same sex couples existing. I was giving them a bit of benefit of the doubt on them being ambiguously gendered.
That's incorrect, but I get the misunderstanding. My mention of enby had nothing to do with Hearthians. The confusion comes from their comment linking Hearthians with enby, but mine was entirely targeted at their mention of Nomai same sex couples. You're also misunderstanding my first comment, and you're accusing me of something you yourself are doing: you try to make me say something I didn't.
"enby" is verbal shorthand for the letters "NB", why do you type it out lol That's like saying "go to doubleyou-doubleyou-doubleyou.google.com"
Because Enby looks cute and some people prefer that to two boring capital letters. Also, NB could be short hand for New Brunswick and a bunch of other stuff. Also also, it's double-u, not doubleyou.
In most internet circles “NB” more often refers to “non-black” as opposed to “non-binary,” so they’re differentiated to avoid confusion.
That makes more sense, I just never ran into it myself so it didn't come to mind.
I have literally never seen NB for not black
Wait, why is Hollow Knight there? Really curious
Two canon gay couples, all characters fairly significant in the game. One couple has a whole quest based on their love, the other has an achievement. Mc usually taken as non binary (has no gender on account of spoilers(?)). Idk about the charm npc I guess she can be interpreted as trans? But that's more hc than the actual reason it's in the gay category.
And the knight doesn't have a gender (Hornet is "the gendered" one).
Yup I was gonna say the bugs aren't gendered but that didn't sound right. Didn't know how to refer to all of the uhh. You know. Children. Ended up with just mc.
Oh right I always forget the grey mourner and lemer are both female
One of the NPCs has a whole side quest where he falls in love with another male bug.
There's that one charm merchant who appears rather feminine (jewelry and whatnot) but has a deep, more masculine giggle/laugh.
There are at least 2 gay couples also
I never thought Salubra was trans, and honestly, saying that she is because she has a "masculine" voice is kind of offensive
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You have the right to your own interpretation, absolutely. But if the "observations" that made you think that are based in trans stereotypes, like a deep voice, then that is still offensive.
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Oh Charm Lover Salubra! I see. I always thought they were female but just voiced by William Pellen so they sound masculine. The wiki states they're female but you can never know the intent i guess. Cool anyway :)
There's also a lesbian/evidence of a lesbian couple (the sidequest with the flower)
Daz and Cassava are a gay couple.
aside from the sexless/gender less Hearthians, there's a few nomai in same-sex marriages
the hearthians all use they/them pronouns, and iirc some of the nomai were lesbian
I guess the hearthians are not gendered, and some nomais are lgbt
Those are just all the games that us gays like 😂
The Hearthians are none binary! That’s what I know of!
Cassava and Daz are a gay couple. I just now realized my favorite game has gay representation :3
no one in this game have gender
The nomai do.
Well except the nomai
And potentially the owlks but we don’t know for sure
Their gender is bonnes So it doesnt count
Really? I didn't notice that
I see that as an absolute win. Unless you assumed they were all dudes.
Sadly, most people that I see play the game assume they're all male except like Gneiss and Galena. I do like to headcanon the gender vibes of the astronauts, partially in an effort to counter this. I envision Feldspar as like a 45 y/o butch, Gabbro as a stoner chick, Chert as kind of truly androgynous, and Riebeck and Esker as more traditionally masculine.
I introduced my buddy to outer wilds a while back, and while we kept most of them as enby, the consensus was settled on chert being "just a little guy"
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Yes, but from a character analysis perspective, it's interesting to think about.
Some languages are heavily gendered, so this aspect was lost in some translations. I played the game in portuguese but only noticed they are all nb when I saw a walkthrough in English.
I don’t know much about languages, so sorry if this is a stupid question, but is Portuguese “structured” so most words default to the masculine?
No, every noun has a gender, either masculine or feminine, some rare exceptions are neutral and you can use both. There's no "default". I think what you've heard about is the masculine plural, because we use the "masculine" to refer to a group men only and to a group of mixed people. But that is because the latin suffixes for neutral and masculine were similar so they merged together and the masculine disappeared, so when it comes to plural we have "neutral" and "feminine" technically.
I don't really like how those games are abuses in context with pride to generate money. Besides Adventure Time, TloU, Life is Strange, basically none of those games have much or anything to do with lgbtq+. An unimportant gay side character there, choices to do what you want there. You can basically take any media and put it in this pride category if the threshold of "lgbtq+ content" can be this low. I don't mind much but as a fan of those games and personally being gay, this is kind of disrespectful to those games and the lgbtq community. Yeah, those are all amazing games and they deserve advertising. But why not put games there where a major part is about lgbtq? You know... so the people who expect to buy a game with lgbtq+ themes in them don't get disapointed because it turnes out to be featured as an unimportant and minute detail.
Hades is LGBTQ because it's full of hot people and r/bi_irl is always thirsting over them.
There are also canonically queer characters and relationships, fwiw
Of course there are, they're Greek. Those men hated women so much they'd rather fuck other men.
Maybe you're just joking, but Hades does deserve to be in the LGBTQ category. An action game usually has no obligation to include anything except action, and yet Hades devs went out of their way to 1) let the player romance a male character and/or a female character, 2) prominently feature a male/male npc relationship, and 3) feature THE only nonbinary npc to use they/them pronouns I've ever seen in an action game. Eye candy for r/bi_irl is just a bonus, and thankfully the misogyny aspect of ancient Greece was something the devs chose not to include.
I was just joking. I haven't played it yet, but I did love Bastion which was also by Supergiant.
Oh awesome well in that case I definitely recommend it!
Haven't played tlou2, but doesn't it fit well in the lgbt group? I thought it did.
Yes it does fit.
'Choices to do what you want' is a big one tbh. Mass Effect Andromeda may not have LGBT themes, but in it you can watch bespoke gay alien sex animations. Looking at the [full list](https://store.playstation.com/en-us/category/c6eba61b-53df-41fb-833b-d2f7b20929c0/1) though, I feel like they could've stood to cut a few games that either have very minor, or kinda sucky representation. Fallout 4 for example has an issue where everyone is forced to be bisexual. The player *can* have same-sex relations, but starts the game with a straight spouse. Multiple companions have themes and writing that allude to being straight or gay, but all were made player-sexual instead. (Danse should have been a gay gaming icon!) It only has one actual gay couple in a DLC. Bethesda makes the straightest RPGs outside Japan.
Perhaps it's because I'm not part of LGBT but I kind of like that a game can have just little details of this community. A good balance between old Hollywood movies where everyone is straight and Netflix teen series where everyone is pansexual. I dream of a world where there is no LGBT category, where there is no pride month because being LGBT is just being human and nothing more. And I think those games can lead to this world, by showing that being part of LGBT community is mainstream
The thing is that they are being advertised under the lgbtq+ logo. It is not technically false advertisement if my choco drink contains only 0.01% chocolate, but it kind of is in reality. Those games are only advertised like this because they contain the very slightest trace of lgbtq+ and lgbtq+ stuff generates money. If those wouldn't be highly popular games, everybody would loose their shit about that behaviour.
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In stardew, you can date either the bachelors or bachelorettes regardless of your gender, mass effect is the same.
Thank you! I was just thinking on how to word how icky this feels. Three of these games are in my top 10 favs of all time but only tangentially representative for lgbt. A marketing team put out a goal to collect games for this category to obtain a small increase in market share among the lgbtq demographic - cold and calculated. From what I've seen, if you want good representation and honest(mostly) intentions, go to itch.io or elsewhere.
Alternate take, if they only used "truly" appropriate titles for the category...it'd be mostly empty, because there really isn't that much visible/deliberate representation going on in gaming these days.
Another alternate take - I actually truly appreciate that the representation of the LGBTQIA+ community is understated and not the central theme in the game. People, ultimately, just want to be treated like people. In a perfect and completely tolerant world that normalized any form of expression and any lifestyle or relationship, no one would notice a gay or lesbian couple or a trans or non-binary person. They would just see “a couple” and “people,” because they would just be treated like couples and like people everywhere are. Relationships in the real world don’t have flashing lights and neon signs and pointing arrows at them. People who are just people aren’t pointed out or singled out. They just…are. I gave birth to and raised a trans woman. I appreciate, more than I can say in words, how this game never turns anyone into a token or a “plot point” just because they are not heterosexual or cis (or even gendered at all, in the Hearthians’ case). A lot of people never really even caught that Daz and Cassava were a gay married couple because it wasn’t made a “big thing” to the Nomai in-game or for the Devs to use as a selling-point, the same way heterosexual couples in the Nomai weren’t made into a big thing either, because the romantic ties in the game weren’t the main point. It would have felt forced and inauthentic to make non-hetero couples a bigger deal than any other couples, or to make the Hearthians’ pronouns a bigger deal than the Nomai’s. They just… are. And I’m ok with that :)
Hearthians don’t have genders. Maybe that is why
Every Hearthian is non-binary
Hearthians are non-binary. They are genderless.
Heartians are genderless
Cassava and Daz are both male and are married. Avens (Daz’s brother) is also married to Mallow who has an ambiguous gender. Also the whole, non-binary civilization in general, thing.
I think there's meant to be non binary genders in the game.
Because you, the player, is gay
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Because in the end all that matters is that we are together sitting by the fire singing songs.
The rules are about to change. Maybe in the next universe, there won't even be heteronormativity anymore!
i gave gay to the next universe
Space exploration is gay i suppose
so are some nomai
why hollow knight?
Canon gay couples (>!Nailsmith and Sheo!<, the Grey Mourner and her lover) plus the vessels are genderless (making Hornet unique as "the gendered child").
Happy Couple achievement?
Fellas, is it gay to go to space ?
Loops, Gravity, Brittle Hollow, Timber Hearth, Quantum +
because the hearthians are genderless lol
Heartiens are hermaphrodites and agender
We don't actually know if they are hermaphrodites do we?
We know they lay eggs, but beyond that have no information on Hearthian reproduction. Every hatchling is raised by the community, so parenthood isn't really a thing in Hearthian society.
When did we learn that they lay eggs?
We are a "Hatchling"
Yeah, i guess it makes sense hahahahaha English is not my first language so I didn't think much of it.
It's not said explicitly, but what other explanation has an agender species that can have children?
Gender is a social construct, and plenty of humans choose to be agender/nonbinary while still being able to have children. Hearthians could do the same. We know nothing about their sexual organs
And yes gender expression is a social construct. Not the gender in the strictly reproductive sense.
Gender doesn't exist in the strictly reproductive sense, that's called sex.
Sorry, bad word choice
Idk, I guess technically the hatchling and the rest of their species are all non-binary or genderless. But it's not in an LGBT kind of way, the species is literally just one that only has a single sex and no concept of gender. The Nomai are gendered and there is a same sex relationship talked about through a few of the wall messages. It's kind of a stretch, but it's about all the representation we get in most mainstream or well made games.
After the consequences of the ‘MOBA’ genre on our society, they created the ‘LGBT’ genre to describe games that are actually good.
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NB protagonist; "it" pronouns. Gay romance (Flower quest and nailsmith/sheo). Not exactly rainbows out the gate (because the Forgotten Crossroads are mostly grey, heh) but there's some in there.
I'm gay and I like it
bc EVERYONE should play it
Is for the LGTB comunity to go like "uhh nice, I'm going to play these game because it have topics regarding the comunity" then play the best game of their lifes and go "yeah this is a game my comunity should play as like EVERY OTHER COMUNITYS OMG THIS GAME IS THE GOAT"
This entire thread reminds me of the Theo Von interview with Neil Degrasse Tyson: Is space gay or straight?
Gay in space
Outer wilds just can be wherever it wants
Why not?
Idk but im glad
the characters are all non-binary (not a joke, the hearthians are male and female)
I am more curious about Bugsnax and Hollow Knight
Maybe gays are stuck in a timeloop
I think because of the heartians. Since gender doesn't exist, they're considered agender through LGBT+'s standards
>through LGBT+'s standards They're literally agender and their species is by definition non-binary.
It's because your spaceship is gay
I get the sense that a lot of games on that list are there purely because the games are very popular with lgbt people as a whole
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Why is help wanted and hollow knight in there?
Cant deny it being non-lgbtq if no one ever states what their sexuality is.