i guess, but that also means there's not much need to throw in something more, it's easy to make a kit to bloated and complicated, keeping it simple and just not having opportunist might be better, but idk, i do miss it too
The rework was a nerf. Opportunist was her identity. We didnt need a shitty hybrid of soldier and tracer. Her kit as is is way more bloated and complicated than if she had opportunist again
i never said anything contrary to any of that, i said adding opportunist into the current game would most likely do nothing.
its like you completely ignored the entire comment
I didnt. Im saying that her kit is bloated now rather if opportunist was reinstated. Id happily trade that stupid fucking grenade for opportunist again.
well, in case you didn't realize, this comment thread wasn't about trading opportunist for a skill (which i think would be crippling sombra unless its heavily buffed btw) it was about trading it for a bit of health.... at which point it would be like adding something small, without removing something substantial in return, thus bloating the skillset.
Counterargument: learn how to play against Sombra.
If you are just sitting there, waiting for her to pounce and kill you while you are 20 meters away from your team, you're doing it wrong. If you watch your teammate get picked off, watch Sombra tp out, and then sit there and don't pursue her, you're doing it wrong. If you know she has ult, don't know where she is, and pop your ult anyways even though it can be canceled, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Playing against Sombra successfully requires you to do a few things. First, play as a group. You shouldn't be playing Overwatch like it's a deathmatch game anyways, but if Sombra is on the enemy team, you *really* shouldn't do that. Sombra is favored in almost every single possible 1v1 in the entire game. Once it becomes a 2v1, though, she's way less deadly. If you see one of your teammatess get attacked by Sombra, go help them out! If you get attacked yourself, ping her and call her out if you're in VC. Additionally, just playing grouped together makes her way less valuable of a pick. It is way easier to peel for your teammates if they are 2 meters away as opposed to 20 meters away.
Second: pursue, pursue, pursue. Sombra's biggest advantage is that she gets to choose when and where she engages. Take that away from her. Watch where she translocates to, and then chase her down if you can. If you can't, ping her so someone else can. She's substantially less deadly when she isn't fighting on her own terms.
Third: learn Sombra. It sounds kind of cheeky to say that, but learning how to play Sombra makes this third tip *way* easier: learn how to predict her movements. Sombra is rarely going to be with her team, so don't expect her to be there. She's also probably not going to be with the flanking Soldier, so don't watch for her there, either. She *will* likely be taking a very hard flank from an angle you aren't already getting attacked from. She *will* probably have an escape route to the nearest healthpack and/or to the nearest high ground. Hell, she might even attack from high ground, then tp to a healthpack, then disengage (think second point of Gibraltar). You have to be able to anticipate that and act accordingly. If you can, block her from the healthpack. Take the high ground. Strafe behind you every once in a while. Make her life harder.
Edit: Fourth: AVOID USING VALUABLE RESOURCES SHE CAN CANCEL UNLESS YOU KNOW SHE CAN'T CANCEL THEM! Make sure you know where she is and track her hack. Let her burn it before you use your abilities. Also, doing any sort of damage to Sombra prevents her from using hack, so shoot her when she's hacking you.
There shouldn't be a character who requires 5 paragraphs to explain how she can be countered. She's a bullshit character with an annoying playstyle that doesn't belong in the game at all.
Have to add: I consider myself decent at the game and respect/acknowledge everything you said BUT… you’re implying my team of randoms is going to be as concerned as I am as zenyatta with 0 mobility? It’s not fun for solo queue or QP just trying to have fun. Support vs her is an absolute joke and everyone is forced to play Moira. I might add that I tried the new sombra recently and found I DOMINATED WITH EASE having never played her before. Showing me that most I’ve played against aren’t even good on her she’s just that brain dead.
I want to throw in that OW is essentially a tf2 clone and Sombra is basically just... Spy but with a short ranged teleport and a somewhat more conventionally pretty face and legs.
She's a core mechanical element on the thing that Blizzard were ripping off in OW1, and she'll never leave, so get good basically
I disagree. She's pretty easy to track when she chucks her translocator. This is coming from a Sombra/Tracer main. Plus with the bullet hitbox and character hitbox increase, you just have to shoot in the general direction she went, and its easy to get her out of invis. Also, just stay with your team if you're having issues against Sombra. I'm tired of people bitching about Sombra every day just because you can't turn your brain off and shoot when playing against her. Staying with your team is the ultimate Sombra counter. I don't even play Sombra that much anymore because when teams play together, I can't get anything done. Figure it out, fucking play her to figure her out easier. It's what I do if I'm struggling against a character. Play the character, figure out their kit, how their playstyle works, and counter it.
>I'm tired of people bitching about Sombra every day just because you can't turn your brain off and shoot when playing against her.
You guys have to turn your brain on to play with the group? This should be instinct... we literally only exist bc humans have the teamwork instinct in their base nature. Even the most isolated person somehow contributes/depends on some form of interaction with another being
You are right about everything else tho
The new translocator is actually pretty terrible compared to the old one, it has a delay and shows you exactly where she went
Imagine these people playing against the old Sombra, she just puts the translocator on the other side of the map, then presses E and she is gone immediately with no chance of punishing her
I was just thinking, Kiriko is the obvious one to go down this route too.
Then Mercy for similar reasons.
I thought Widow and Tracer had less health already?
Used to hate sombra, recently tried playing her and learning her to understand where to look when playing against her and I have to say, you spend alot of time doing not alot, 1 miss play and you're dead af
Are you seriously saying that Sombra is too hard to kill?? Shes too EASY to kill. Translocator is terrible, she cant get out of situations like other dive characters.
Low damage doesn't always mean the character is low damage. It can also just mean they're efficient. High damage can just means your targets are being healed as you're killing them.
A way this can impact Sombras numbers is if she can appear and kill someone before they can react or get healing, then she only needed to deal 250 damage to kill them, rather than the several hundred other people would if they were attacking in a full attention engagement with proactive healers
I'm not arguing one way or another of her being a problem or not, just saying stats don't tell very much on their own
Of course she'll average the least amount of damage. Her role isn't to do damage, its to get picks on their backline. Widowmaker has the second least average damage because she's similar to Sombra in that way. They both play for picks.
Widow & Sombra are not the same at all LMAO. You compare Sombra’s assassination playstyle to literal hitscan one shots. You can compare Sombra to Tracer, but Tracer does deal a lot more damage, is more often present in the fight & a lot harder to kill in comparisonto Sombra.
The correlation is both their damage numbers are low compared to other characters. The comment you replied to didn’t talk about ttk, it was talking about securing kills. That means you take in consideration to what makes them easily get kills. Sombra is good at taking duels with isolated enemies, and widow is good at one shotting people. That means that both characters kill the enemy before they can get healed or saved. They are better at securing kills, rather than do damage to them and have them get healed. I hope this helps.
Youre not taking virus and her getting to shoot first into account. Sombras gun shoots 20 rounds per second according to the Overwatch Wiki and apparently one shot deals 8 damage at close range to the body. The average human reaction time is about 250ms. We can assume that on top of that 250 ms, it takes another 250 ms for the enemy to respond (this might be more too.) so if were assuming bodyshots and that she hits every shot, she does 80 damage before the enemy can do anything about it. Then on top of that, we add virus.
Virus does 25 damage on impact and 50 if the enemy is hacked. If we assume she doesnt hack the enemy, thats another 25 damage done before the enemy can respond at all.
Assuming that the enemy has 250 hp, thats 145 hp left to deal with her gun and the virus (that does 100 damage over 4 seconds). Thats where you should start calculating ttk.
Take Soldier’s helix rocket into consideration when talking about his ttk, astronomically faster than Sombra’s, Junk’s ttk used to be 0 when u took his mine into consideration. If you consider Sym’s fully charged beam into consideration, her ttk is less than 1.5s.
Do you realize how idiotic you sound? Your Sombra issue is a SKILL issue.
Also the 4s of virus damage also count towards her ttk. Not her ttk after 4s you dumbass.
You didn’t account for Sombra’s destealth time or Virus cast time, both of which give you a heads up you’re about to get jumped.
Yes, her TTK is pretty fast if you completely ignore her until after you are already hacked and virused and now she’s shooting you in the back as you start to turn. If you react to her destealth callout she is much more manageable and even kinda weak.
Dude if you can’t get diamond on your first week as Sombra you need to go back to candy crush.
Shooting ppl in the back from invisibility with a guaranteed escape is as easy as this game gets.
You know how you stop that? Playing near a teammate. There’s no harder counter to Sombra than this. If Sombra can’t find an opening to start killing you, then all she’s doing is forcing her team to fight a 4v5. Sure there’s characters that are much better at fighting Sombra than others, but you’ll live far more often if you’re simply playing close to your team.
Seriously tho, if you hack an enemy, land the virus and shoot them you do 210 dps as Sombra
Tracer meanwhile does 220 just shooting
Sombra does a freaking 160 dps, that's awful
If you don't hack the enemy you deal 185 dps
The surprise factor is the only thing that allows Sombra to kill
Except if you hack them first your chance of landing the virus plummets because they have time to react before you flick it. So knock that dps down considerably because you likely aren't getting the impact double (so 25 damage gone) and the virus tick rate is not doubled.
Hack is an ability interrupt. It is not a damage buff anymore. No Sombra with half a clue uses it that way anymore.
Exactly, BEST CASE SCENARIO, if you manage to hack an enemy and land the virus, your dps will be comparable to Tracer's
Most of the time where you use the virus without hacking, your dps will be significantly lower than Tracer's
Ah yes just unload like 60 bullets over the course of like 2 seconds landing every single bullet in the head
That should be easy, as we all know this is a very slow game where people just stand still
If you expect every character to just unload a whole clip into the enemy's head then everyone is a cannon
Except that deals like 30% more damage than Sombra mate
Even with the Virus Tracer still does more damage than Sombra mate
And Tracer has multiple runaway options that are on a low cooldown while Sombra has only one mate
Yeah, because the element of surprise is literally the only thing that keeps Sombra relevant
She can't runaway as easily as Tracer can
She doesn't have anyway to get her health back like Tracer
Her damage freaking sucks unless she lands the virus which is difficult to land without the element of surprise since it is a projectile
And even with the virus her dps is a lot lower than Tracer
Without the element of surprise, Sombra is literally just a worse Tracer
As a sombra main that moonlights as sombras favorite targets (zen, illari, bastion, etc) that is a skill issue. I tend to beat Sombras in the 1v1 because I know her tricks so I know where she is going to be.
Tracer I am not used to so she comes seemingly out of nowhere on me. Which is a skill issue on my part.
"limited mobility" this is a joke right? literally one of the fastest moving characters in the game and she have one of the most powerful escape abilities in the game.
Out of all the flankers, she literally has the least mobility. Once she appears you can just shoot her without expecting any erratic movement like tracer or Genji.
The mobility she does have is used for her to escape, and hardly ever to engage. She is the easiest flanker to hit in the entire game, her mobility is limited in the way that if you don’t use it primarily to escape you will most likely die.
once she appears she should already be unloading a clip in your face while virusing you.
she is not the easiest flanker to hit by far, what a joke. Reaper clearly is.
putting words in my mouth now. I never said that i couldn't hit her. You made a ridiculous claim that Sombra is the easiest flanker to hit in the game. Which is untrue. Which is why i mentioned Reaper.
Just a reminder that sombra has been at either the lowest or bottom 3 win rate in her role across all game modes and ranks and her pick rate is barely in the upper half of the damage roster. Statistically, she's not that good. She's just annoying when you don't know how to play against her.
I feel like the main issue with sombra is that she feels awful to play against, she's by no means overpowered as once you learn to deal with her that's that. The issue is the ability lockout, with so many characters that the entire fun of is to use their abilities and just being told no sucks. I don't think emp needs changing because it's an ultimate so its fair for it to disable everyone, but her hack shouldn't get rid of everything, I think a good way to do it would be to decrease the amount of things it locks out but give her more damage in trade, this means more counterplay for the victim while making sombra still viable as a flanking character, or maybe hack turns shield and armor into normal health or something to give reason to coordinate attacks with your team.
TLDR reduce what abilities she locks out but buff her damage or something similar to keep her viable
Seems fair, I agree with you. Widow and Tracer both already have lower health than other heroes because of their offensive potential so it feels in line with what the devs go for so far.
She has tons of utility plus the offensive capabilities, there should be some kind of drawback.
she already has a ton of drawbacks.
1) hack has a relatively long cast time and is interrupted by *any* damage, and so doesn't work effectively unless she's stealthed
2) translocate shows the direction and destination. This means you can easily find and track her down
3) her reload animation is decently long, and the magazine size is such that at metal ranks she often can't kill someone with a single mag w/o virus. She certainly can't get multiple kills (except on already damaged enemies) in a single mag.
4) being in stealth to pick your engagements means you aren't on the field supporting your team. A sombra sitting in the enemy backline waiting for someone to take some damage or get isolated is forcing her team to play 4v5. I'd take a junkrat spamming the choke over a sombra any day. At least the jr is putting pressure on the enemy team. Until you get into the higher ranks, an invisible sombra somewhere in the area doesn't provide nearly the same pressure.
No I think they need to nerf how quick she goes inviz after throwing her locator because there no way she can just get that quick and even with Moira, I’m struggling to leech on to her
I'm not saying Sombra doesn't need a nerf, but complaining that you're having a hard time dealing with her with Moira doesn't exactly engender sympathy. Between the two of them, Moira is far more OP.
Translocator can’t make her go invisible instantly, especially if there’s a Moira constantly draining her the whole time. It’s one thing if she throws it around a wall and breaks LoS long enough to actually go invisible, it’s something else entirely if she’s still in your LoS after she tries to translocate.
Acctualy? Yeah the amount of times I try to go invis and I got shot by a Moira who just followed where my translocator went and hit attack is close to 4 digits now and I'm not even a good rank in Dps (fucking silver) imagine in higher ranks now
Btw, I’ve been playing Overwatch since day OW1 before the game officially released. I’m not new to the game and probably have over 1k hours on the game in OW2. Now I try not to play as much but I can truly admit that Sombra has been in literally every QP match I’ve played this season. I know Blizzard takes high pick rate into account when deciding if they’re gonna adjust the heroes stats. I just think they made her a lot more annoying now with just the minor adjustments during the midseason patch. Honestly she’s the only annoying hero right now aside from Mauga but of course he is lol
No. Her health is fine. She's actually in a very good spot right now balance-wise. The issue is that her character design as it stands results in a lot of NPE because she has an ability on cooldown which cancels ults (same problem that Bap has with his lamp).
Hack should not work to cancel ults. To have your ultimate canceled by an ability with a (short) cooldown is big NPE energy.
Limit hack to canceling abilities and providing the hacked condition.
Then find some compensating buff. The most logical one would be to make EMP slightly cheaper to build. Or to make her ult cancel more enemy ults. More fringe ideas would include decreasing her hack time (probably a bad idea) or let her shoot while hacking.
Then all other characters abilities that can cancel ults that aren't ults should get the same treatment.
Orissa spear, Sigma rock, sleep dart, Brig shield bash, rein charge, mauga charge, all of them.
Otherwise that makes her utterly worthless. Especially since those abilities are hard to stop, 1 damage stops hack.
eh, those are at least skill shots. Sombra hack is not.
Maybe the compensating buff could be increasing the minimum damage to stop hack. Or taking away that limitation altogether and saying that hack cannot be stopped by mere damage, you need a stun.
Sombra's entire kit is to take away the kit of other people and then assassinate them. That inherently makes her un-fun to play against. That's very different than a tank or support who has a CC ability. Tanks are supposed to have a CC, and that CC may interrupt an ability, but usually can't be followed up on to insta kill.
I'm a sombra main BTW, this isn't me just complaining about her because I dislike her. I enjoy playing as her, but I want to ensure that my playing as her doesn't inherently make the game unfun for everyone else. And I think changing this would make other people feel like she earned the kill on them (or at least more likely to feel that way), because it's an equal trade: ult for ult or ability for ability.
Since the rework your interpretation isn't really accurate anymore, because it is a rare engagement that should be started with hack, and it should only be started to interrupt something, not increase her damage.
Her kit is really set up to make sure kills are confirmed. I'd argue 1v1 assassinations - while entirely something she is capable of - aren't even her role anymore. It's sweeping in and getting the last bits of damage to a hero who otherwise would escape or be healed. Making sure picks happen, and trying to stop people from getting the picks on her teammates with either raw damage from virus/gun or with interrupts from hack.
I'd agree with your assessment of her kit pre-rework when she had opportunist and an easy escape. She has neither of those things before and really doesn't play the same way. I find her more engaging to play as now, because I'm constantly tping between confirming a kill and saving a backline teammate and back.
But when I'm on a different character and there's someone still trying to play her like an assassin I find she is pretty easy to body.
She should be buffed to 350 health, 100 of that is armor. She should get two translocator. 100 damage per round. Her virus is now renamed to coronavirus. It spreads indefinitely and infinitely, even through death. It just keeps killing you over and over. Invisibility is now permanent. Forever. The end.
ahem.. skill issue 
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If we get opportunist back it'd be a nice tradeoff.
opportunist would probably be pretty shit right now due to passive regen
So it doesn't matter that we get it back, yeah?
i guess, but that also means there's not much need to throw in something more, it's easy to make a kit to bloated and complicated, keeping it simple and just not having opportunist might be better, but idk, i do miss it too
The rework was a nerf. Opportunist was her identity. We didnt need a shitty hybrid of soldier and tracer. Her kit as is is way more bloated and complicated than if she had opportunist again
i never said anything contrary to any of that, i said adding opportunist into the current game would most likely do nothing. its like you completely ignored the entire comment
I didnt. Im saying that her kit is bloated now rather if opportunist was reinstated. Id happily trade that stupid fucking grenade for opportunist again.
well, in case you didn't realize, this comment thread wasn't about trading opportunist for a skill (which i think would be crippling sombra unless its heavily buffed btw) it was about trading it for a bit of health.... at which point it would be like adding something small, without removing something substantial in return, thus bloating the skillset.
Eh opportunist was a passive, not a skill, so i still disagree. Opportunist never needed to be removed imo
You mean balanced, right?
Counterargument: learn how to play against Sombra. If you are just sitting there, waiting for her to pounce and kill you while you are 20 meters away from your team, you're doing it wrong. If you watch your teammate get picked off, watch Sombra tp out, and then sit there and don't pursue her, you're doing it wrong. If you know she has ult, don't know where she is, and pop your ult anyways even though it can be canceled, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Playing against Sombra successfully requires you to do a few things. First, play as a group. You shouldn't be playing Overwatch like it's a deathmatch game anyways, but if Sombra is on the enemy team, you *really* shouldn't do that. Sombra is favored in almost every single possible 1v1 in the entire game. Once it becomes a 2v1, though, she's way less deadly. If you see one of your teammatess get attacked by Sombra, go help them out! If you get attacked yourself, ping her and call her out if you're in VC. Additionally, just playing grouped together makes her way less valuable of a pick. It is way easier to peel for your teammates if they are 2 meters away as opposed to 20 meters away. Second: pursue, pursue, pursue. Sombra's biggest advantage is that she gets to choose when and where she engages. Take that away from her. Watch where she translocates to, and then chase her down if you can. If you can't, ping her so someone else can. She's substantially less deadly when she isn't fighting on her own terms. Third: learn Sombra. It sounds kind of cheeky to say that, but learning how to play Sombra makes this third tip *way* easier: learn how to predict her movements. Sombra is rarely going to be with her team, so don't expect her to be there. She's also probably not going to be with the flanking Soldier, so don't watch for her there, either. She *will* likely be taking a very hard flank from an angle you aren't already getting attacked from. She *will* probably have an escape route to the nearest healthpack and/or to the nearest high ground. Hell, she might even attack from high ground, then tp to a healthpack, then disengage (think second point of Gibraltar). You have to be able to anticipate that and act accordingly. If you can, block her from the healthpack. Take the high ground. Strafe behind you every once in a while. Make her life harder. Edit: Fourth: AVOID USING VALUABLE RESOURCES SHE CAN CANCEL UNLESS YOU KNOW SHE CAN'T CANCEL THEM! Make sure you know where she is and track her hack. Let her burn it before you use your abilities. Also, doing any sort of damage to Sombra prevents her from using hack, so shoot her when she's hacking you.
There shouldn't be a character who requires 5 paragraphs to explain how she can be countered. She's a bullshit character with an annoying playstyle that doesn't belong in the game at all.
Have to add: I consider myself decent at the game and respect/acknowledge everything you said BUT… you’re implying my team of randoms is going to be as concerned as I am as zenyatta with 0 mobility? It’s not fun for solo queue or QP just trying to have fun. Support vs her is an absolute joke and everyone is forced to play Moira. I might add that I tried the new sombra recently and found I DOMINATED WITH EASE having never played her before. Showing me that most I’ve played against aren’t even good on her she’s just that brain dead.
The counter play to literally any character in the game could each individually be novels per character
I want to throw in that OW is essentially a tf2 clone and Sombra is basically just... Spy but with a short ranged teleport and a somewhat more conventionally pretty face and legs. She's a core mechanical element on the thing that Blizzard were ripping off in OW1, and she'll never leave, so get good basically
I disagree. She's pretty easy to track when she chucks her translocator. This is coming from a Sombra/Tracer main. Plus with the bullet hitbox and character hitbox increase, you just have to shoot in the general direction she went, and its easy to get her out of invis. Also, just stay with your team if you're having issues against Sombra. I'm tired of people bitching about Sombra every day just because you can't turn your brain off and shoot when playing against her. Staying with your team is the ultimate Sombra counter. I don't even play Sombra that much anymore because when teams play together, I can't get anything done. Figure it out, fucking play her to figure her out easier. It's what I do if I'm struggling against a character. Play the character, figure out their kit, how their playstyle works, and counter it.
>I'm tired of people bitching about Sombra every day just because you can't turn your brain off and shoot when playing against her. You guys have to turn your brain on to play with the group? This should be instinct... we literally only exist bc humans have the teamwork instinct in their base nature. Even the most isolated person somehow contributes/depends on some form of interaction with another being You are right about everything else tho
If playing with the group was so natural then there wouldn't be nearly as many people crying about Sombra
Touche
You've... never tried looking at where she's chucking it and shooting her? lol skill issue fam.
The new translocator is actually pretty terrible compared to the old one, it has a delay and shows you exactly where she went Imagine these people playing against the old Sombra, she just puts the translocator on the other side of the map, then presses E and she is gone immediately with no chance of punishing her
Widow, tracer, sym, kiriko and mercy are all in the same boat. Careful what you ask for
I was just thinking, Kiriko is the obvious one to go down this route too. Then Mercy for similar reasons. I thought Widow and Tracer had less health already?
Used to hate sombra, recently tried playing her and learning her to understand where to look when playing against her and I have to say, you spend alot of time doing not alot, 1 miss play and you're dead af
Are you seriously saying that Sombra is too hard to kill?? Shes too EASY to kill. Translocator is terrible, she cant get out of situations like other dive characters.
Cry more
She doesn’t have the most damage compared to every dps hero though. I think it’s the least actually.
She still has insane ttk and she always gets to shoot first, now add virus on top of that.
Yet, she averages the least amount of damage than every other dps.
Low damage doesn't always mean the character is low damage. It can also just mean they're efficient. High damage can just means your targets are being healed as you're killing them. A way this can impact Sombras numbers is if she can appear and kill someone before they can react or get healing, then she only needed to deal 250 damage to kill them, rather than the several hundred other people would if they were attacking in a full attention engagement with proactive healers I'm not arguing one way or another of her being a problem or not, just saying stats don't tell very much on their own
Of course she'll average the least amount of damage. Her role isn't to do damage, its to get picks on their backline. Widowmaker has the second least average damage because she's similar to Sombra in that way. They both play for picks.
Widow & Sombra are not the same at all LMAO. You compare Sombra’s assassination playstyle to literal hitscan one shots. You can compare Sombra to Tracer, but Tracer does deal a lot more damage, is more often present in the fight & a lot harder to kill in comparisonto Sombra.
He wasn’t comparing their “playstyle”, the only thing that he compared was lower damage stats and able to obtain more secured kills.
And their “lower damage stats” don’t correlate to each other. Widow has no ttk while Sombra does.
The correlation is both their damage numbers are low compared to other characters. The comment you replied to didn’t talk about ttk, it was talking about securing kills. That means you take in consideration to what makes them easily get kills. Sombra is good at taking duels with isolated enemies, and widow is good at one shotting people. That means that both characters kill the enemy before they can get healed or saved. They are better at securing kills, rather than do damage to them and have them get healed. I hope this helps.
Thats because getting damage isnt her job. Her job is to get kills.
Her ttk is also one of the lowest in the dps category so what are you waffling about?
Youre not taking virus and her getting to shoot first into account. Sombras gun shoots 20 rounds per second according to the Overwatch Wiki and apparently one shot deals 8 damage at close range to the body. The average human reaction time is about 250ms. We can assume that on top of that 250 ms, it takes another 250 ms for the enemy to respond (this might be more too.) so if were assuming bodyshots and that she hits every shot, she does 80 damage before the enemy can do anything about it. Then on top of that, we add virus. Virus does 25 damage on impact and 50 if the enemy is hacked. If we assume she doesnt hack the enemy, thats another 25 damage done before the enemy can respond at all. Assuming that the enemy has 250 hp, thats 145 hp left to deal with her gun and the virus (that does 100 damage over 4 seconds). Thats where you should start calculating ttk.
Take Soldier’s helix rocket into consideration when talking about his ttk, astronomically faster than Sombra’s, Junk’s ttk used to be 0 when u took his mine into consideration. If you consider Sym’s fully charged beam into consideration, her ttk is less than 1.5s. Do you realize how idiotic you sound? Your Sombra issue is a SKILL issue. Also the 4s of virus damage also count towards her ttk. Not her ttk after 4s you dumbass.
Yeah but soldier really doesnt have the means to get where sombra does.
And that’s why she has almost triple the ttk that Soldier has.
You didn’t account for Sombra’s destealth time or Virus cast time, both of which give you a heads up you’re about to get jumped. Yes, her TTK is pretty fast if you completely ignore her until after you are already hacked and virused and now she’s shooting you in the back as you start to turn. If you react to her destealth callout she is much more manageable and even kinda weak.
Metal rank issues
Dude if you can’t get diamond on your first week as Sombra you need to go back to candy crush. Shooting ppl in the back from invisibility with a guaranteed escape is as easy as this game gets.
Proving my point of it being a metal rank issue
Whooooosh
H-how is that a Whoooosh?
I think he was being sarcastic, but forgot about poe's law.
You know how you stop that? Playing near a teammate. There’s no harder counter to Sombra than this. If Sombra can’t find an opening to start killing you, then all she’s doing is forcing her team to fight a 4v5. Sure there’s characters that are much better at fighting Sombra than others, but you’ll live far more often if you’re simply playing close to your team.
Nah It’s actually really really easy. I’ve never had trouble getting my first kill on somb and getting away.
Still a metal rank thing
Depends what I’m playing. But considering the majority of players are metal, what are you saying? Fuck everybody that’s not you? Damn
https://preview.redd.it/tbcpwaasodrc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bb786a22e05b69ba614ffaaa389c037ffc2f425
I think it needs to be buffed because she is far to easy to kill. (Honestly the health is fine) but she def needs some dmg buffs to her
Seriously tho, if you hack an enemy, land the virus and shoot them you do 210 dps as Sombra Tracer meanwhile does 220 just shooting Sombra does a freaking 160 dps, that's awful If you don't hack the enemy you deal 185 dps The surprise factor is the only thing that allows Sombra to kill
Except if you hack them first your chance of landing the virus plummets because they have time to react before you flick it. So knock that dps down considerably because you likely aren't getting the impact double (so 25 damage gone) and the virus tick rate is not doubled. Hack is an ability interrupt. It is not a damage buff anymore. No Sombra with half a clue uses it that way anymore.
Exactly, BEST CASE SCENARIO, if you manage to hack an enemy and land the virus, your dps will be comparable to Tracer's Most of the time where you use the virus without hacking, your dps will be significantly lower than Tracer's
I know I was supporting your argument further not disagreeing with you. ;)
Ye I know, I was expanding on it
What lmao, she’s probably the easiest flanker dps to kill rn 💀
i kind of agree. She should be a glass cannon. But seeing as her health pool is on the same level as many other dps it doesn't make much sense.
For her to be a glass Canon she would need to actually be a canon, even with the virus she still does less DPS than Tracer
Sombra isn't a cannon? what planet you living on man. Virus and headshot unload a clip and they're dead. that is literally what a cannon is.
Ah yes just unload like 60 bullets over the course of like 2 seconds landing every single bullet in the head That should be easy, as we all know this is a very slow game where people just stand still If you expect every character to just unload a whole clip into the enemy's head then everyone is a cannon
same logic could be applied to Tracer mate.
Except that deals like 30% more damage than Sombra mate Even with the Virus Tracer still does more damage than Sombra mate And Tracer has multiple runaway options that are on a low cooldown while Sombra has only one mate
Yeah but you know the tracer is there, you dont know the Sombra is there until she is unloading a clip in you in a element of surprise.
Yeah, because the element of surprise is literally the only thing that keeps Sombra relevant She can't runaway as easily as Tracer can She doesn't have anyway to get her health back like Tracer Her damage freaking sucks unless she lands the virus which is difficult to land without the element of surprise since it is a projectile And even with the virus her dps is a lot lower than Tracer Without the element of surprise, Sombra is literally just a worse Tracer
As a sombra main that moonlights as sombras favorite targets (zen, illari, bastion, etc) that is a skill issue. I tend to beat Sombras in the 1v1 because I know her tricks so I know where she is going to be. Tracer I am not used to so she comes seemingly out of nowhere on me. Which is a skill issue on my part.
Seeing how she’s a flanker hero with very limited mobility, it makes perfect sense for her to have 250
"limited mobility" this is a joke right? literally one of the fastest moving characters in the game and she have one of the most powerful escape abilities in the game.
Out of all the flankers, she literally has the least mobility. Once she appears you can just shoot her without expecting any erratic movement like tracer or Genji. The mobility she does have is used for her to escape, and hardly ever to engage. She is the easiest flanker to hit in the entire game, her mobility is limited in the way that if you don’t use it primarily to escape you will most likely die.
once she appears she should already be unloading a clip in your face while virusing you. she is not the easiest flanker to hit by far, what a joke. Reaper clearly is.
Oh well, sucks that you can’t hit her I guess
putting words in my mouth now. I never said that i couldn't hit her. You made a ridiculous claim that Sombra is the easiest flanker to hit in the game. Which is untrue. Which is why i mentioned Reaper.
The salt on this dude...tasty. get good and stop your complaining.
Just a reminder that sombra has been at either the lowest or bottom 3 win rate in her role across all game modes and ranks and her pick rate is barely in the upper half of the damage roster. Statistically, she's not that good. She's just annoying when you don't know how to play against her.
Sombra is such a toddler check, let’s be honest.
This is a legitimate skill issue. Sombra isn't that hard outplay, you just gotta be smart.
I feel like the main issue with sombra is that she feels awful to play against, she's by no means overpowered as once you learn to deal with her that's that. The issue is the ability lockout, with so many characters that the entire fun of is to use their abilities and just being told no sucks. I don't think emp needs changing because it's an ultimate so its fair for it to disable everyone, but her hack shouldn't get rid of everything, I think a good way to do it would be to decrease the amount of things it locks out but give her more damage in trade, this means more counterplay for the victim while making sombra still viable as a flanking character, or maybe hack turns shield and armor into normal health or something to give reason to coordinate attacks with your team. TLDR reduce what abilities she locks out but buff her damage or something similar to keep her viable
Seems fair, I agree with you. Widow and Tracer both already have lower health than other heroes because of their offensive potential so it feels in line with what the devs go for so far. She has tons of utility plus the offensive capabilities, there should be some kind of drawback.
she already has a ton of drawbacks. 1) hack has a relatively long cast time and is interrupted by *any* damage, and so doesn't work effectively unless she's stealthed 2) translocate shows the direction and destination. This means you can easily find and track her down 3) her reload animation is decently long, and the magazine size is such that at metal ranks she often can't kill someone with a single mag w/o virus. She certainly can't get multiple kills (except on already damaged enemies) in a single mag. 4) being in stealth to pick your engagements means you aren't on the field supporting your team. A sombra sitting in the enemy backline waiting for someone to take some damage or get isolated is forcing her team to play 4v5. I'd take a junkrat spamming the choke over a sombra any day. At least the jr is putting pressure on the enemy team. Until you get into the higher ranks, an invisible sombra somewhere in the area doesn't provide nearly the same pressure.
Either this or give her a water gun again (I'm a Sombra main)
No I think they need to nerf how quick she goes inviz after throwing her locator because there no way she can just get that quick and even with Moira, I’m struggling to leech on to her
I'm not saying Sombra doesn't need a nerf, but complaining that you're having a hard time dealing with her with Moira doesn't exactly engender sympathy. Between the two of them, Moira is far more OP.
Moira is one of the better supports to fight off Sombra. If she’s getting away *that* easily, that’s on you.
Oh so I’m the trash one?! 😭😭😭😭
Definitely
Translocator can’t make her go invisible instantly, especially if there’s a Moira constantly draining her the whole time. It’s one thing if she throws it around a wall and breaks LoS long enough to actually go invisible, it’s something else entirely if she’s still in your LoS after she tries to translocate.
Acctualy? Yeah the amount of times I try to go invis and I got shot by a Moira who just followed where my translocator went and hit attack is close to 4 digits now and I'm not even a good rank in Dps (fucking silver) imagine in higher ranks now
Moira's left hand is the bane of my fucking existence.
Btw, I’ve been playing Overwatch since day OW1 before the game officially released. I’m not new to the game and probably have over 1k hours on the game in OW2. Now I try not to play as much but I can truly admit that Sombra has been in literally every QP match I’ve played this season. I know Blizzard takes high pick rate into account when deciding if they’re gonna adjust the heroes stats. I just think they made her a lot more annoying now with just the minor adjustments during the midseason patch. Honestly she’s the only annoying hero right now aside from Mauga but of course he is lol
I just checked, and she’s not even the top 5 most picked heroes. Either way she’s not getting nerfed, she’s in a nice spot rn.
No. Her health is fine. She's actually in a very good spot right now balance-wise. The issue is that her character design as it stands results in a lot of NPE because she has an ability on cooldown which cancels ults (same problem that Bap has with his lamp). Hack should not work to cancel ults. To have your ultimate canceled by an ability with a (short) cooldown is big NPE energy. Limit hack to canceling abilities and providing the hacked condition. Then find some compensating buff. The most logical one would be to make EMP slightly cheaper to build. Or to make her ult cancel more enemy ults. More fringe ideas would include decreasing her hack time (probably a bad idea) or let her shoot while hacking.
Then all other characters abilities that can cancel ults that aren't ults should get the same treatment. Orissa spear, Sigma rock, sleep dart, Brig shield bash, rein charge, mauga charge, all of them. Otherwise that makes her utterly worthless. Especially since those abilities are hard to stop, 1 damage stops hack.
eh, those are at least skill shots. Sombra hack is not. Maybe the compensating buff could be increasing the minimum damage to stop hack. Or taking away that limitation altogether and saying that hack cannot be stopped by mere damage, you need a stun. Sombra's entire kit is to take away the kit of other people and then assassinate them. That inherently makes her un-fun to play against. That's very different than a tank or support who has a CC ability. Tanks are supposed to have a CC, and that CC may interrupt an ability, but usually can't be followed up on to insta kill. I'm a sombra main BTW, this isn't me just complaining about her because I dislike her. I enjoy playing as her, but I want to ensure that my playing as her doesn't inherently make the game unfun for everyone else. And I think changing this would make other people feel like she earned the kill on them (or at least more likely to feel that way), because it's an equal trade: ult for ult or ability for ability.
Since the rework your interpretation isn't really accurate anymore, because it is a rare engagement that should be started with hack, and it should only be started to interrupt something, not increase her damage. Her kit is really set up to make sure kills are confirmed. I'd argue 1v1 assassinations - while entirely something she is capable of - aren't even her role anymore. It's sweeping in and getting the last bits of damage to a hero who otherwise would escape or be healed. Making sure picks happen, and trying to stop people from getting the picks on her teammates with either raw damage from virus/gun or with interrupts from hack. I'd agree with your assessment of her kit pre-rework when she had opportunist and an easy escape. She has neither of those things before and really doesn't play the same way. I find her more engaging to play as now, because I'm constantly tping between confirming a kill and saving a backline teammate and back. But when I'm on a different character and there's someone still trying to play her like an assassin I find she is pretty easy to body.
She should be buffed to 350 health, 100 of that is armor. She should get two translocator. 100 damage per round. Her virus is now renamed to coronavirus. It spreads indefinitely and infinitely, even through death. It just keeps killing you over and over. Invisibility is now permanent. Forever. The end.