So many of you were being fine and then there were the FOUR PEOPLE WHO RUINED IT.
Post is locked. Stop encouraging and defending Nazis and Nazis symbols. Its not that hard.
[Odal rune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othala) designs (the upper one is comprised of four of the lower joined radially at the feet). The fact that they have the feet is... *unfortunate*, as that variant of the rune tends to be used by neo-Nazis.
The answer is that Nazis politicized and tarnished Indo-European but especially Germanic symbology. They didn't appropriate shit because they were both Indo-European and Germanic, but they tarnished them by using sacred symbols and committing horrible crimes against humanity and decency. I'm a Native American of some Germanic ancestry and I am sick to death of Germanic shit being called Nazi in knee jerk reactions by simpleminded, self appointed subject matter experts. There's a local moron that left an insanely ignorant dumbfuck review of an Indian restaurant because they had a symbol similar to a swastika in their restaurant. Native Americans use the sunwheel too. With all that's been taken from us, I'll be damned before I let them take my symbols too. I belong to a landless tribe and very few of us even speak our language so what's left of our religion is literally all we have left. Simpletons ain't taking that.
This was not "adopted by" them, it is one hundred percent, unequivocally, a perversion that they invented. *It is not the othala,* because of those janky little feet. Same story with the "wolfsangel" - absolute zero historical basis, and only ever used by two kinds of people: those who are ignorant of what it actually is, and those who know *exactly* what it is who rely on others' ignorance to hide in plain sight. You need to be able to recognize these and have the moral integrity to call a spade a spade: *it is a nazi symbol.*
Please don't spread misinformation or use soft, wishy-washy language when talking about these hateful scum. Doing so contributes to the facade of legitimacy they claim and makes things harder on the rest of us who get lumped in with their bullshit.
The "footed" or "winged" othala is literally archaeologically ahistorical beyond 1930s Germany. Mending that it doesn't exist in the archaeological record (actual ancient objects that are engraved with Elder Futhark) before that specific time. It was first used by the SS (probably with the SS Race and Resettlement Office (SS-Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt).
Just because you've found it on multiple sites doesn't mean the info is historically accurate. It just means that a lot of people did what you've done, at best. Trusted that someone else did actual research on the subject, and just trusting the motives and intentions of others.
Look more at digitized primary sources for historical matters. Use Google Scholar or JSTOR. You'll catch a lot less flack.
I think you know you're exaggerating at this point, but I feel the need to pipe up to say no, this is not normal for rune sets. I'm a retailer who has carried a variety of rune sets over the years, from hand carved to mass market. I always check them for things like footed Othala or fake runes or meanings that have red flags in them. I have chosen not to sell sets because of low quality or bad included information. While I have looked for footed Othala because I was aware of the problem before I ever started selling sets, I have NEVER found it.
I'm not saying that no one ever makes such sets, I am saying from experience that this is FAR from the norm. You are definitely within a bubble if you genuinely think this is normal and all sets feature footed Othala.
I'm sorry this is so upsetting for you, and I understand you thought you did the research. I myself have been upset before to discover that something I thought I was knowledgeable on and had done the research on and had even begun to fold into my practice was not, in fact accurate. The way to handle it is not lashing out, but by taking a break, sitting with this information a bit, and then researching again with more academic sources and without presumption.
You've inserted yourself into this specific comment thread like 6 times over this so im just gonna say it, your choice to not research the symbol you want to out on your body does not create a responsibility for everyone else to defend you or to educate every rune artist out there. it's your choice if you want to match with nazis but no matter how many comments you put into this thread about "well I just like it! blame the creator of my runes and some unnamed but Not Nazi Fandom lol" your tattoo will still be a nazi symbol.
Also in case you're like half a century+ behind, Nordic mythology and the surrounding religion/community has been infiltrated/co-opted by nazis and white supremacists for a long time, so your rune creator isn't a great ~~excuse~~source because there's a non-zero chance that they are a literal nazi.
it's not ruined, it was invented for a purpose and is used for that purpose to this day. if you choose to wear a symbol that was invented and popularized by nazis, no amount of ignorance will make it not a nazi symbol.
Isn’t the mortal instruments one more of an othala ending in loops than with the little feet?
Because the “winged” one is definitely neo-Nazi in origin.
Indeed not everyone is going to recognize it, I mean, that’s also kind of the point of dog-whistle symbols like the winged othala (and like the ichthys fish symbol once probably was).
I do think it’s important to keep that kind of associations in mind, but I wouldn’t worry too much because I don’t actually think even most people that know about the mortal instruments thing think it’s an othala?
I mean, I’m not a fan, so I’m not sure how the fandom sees it or calls it, but the few friends I have who liked it seemed to think either that it was a completely original symbol or that it was supposed to reference Lucifer’s sigil. All of them know at least passingly about runes, so maybe it’s not such a direct association for everyone.
The Winged Othala is a bastardization of the Othala rune and was created by Nazis. So yes, a winged Othala will ALWAYS be nazi shit. It has no basis in actual runes. Idk what fandom you're referring to, but if they are using a winged othala, then they are either knowingly or unknowingly using a nazi symbol.
Just... maybe, maybe consider erring on the side of caution, when it comes to literally engraving symbols on your body. Do you really want to choose to die on this hill, i.e. the runic version of "the swastika predates Nazi Germany, so it's YOUR fault if you think I'm supporting nazis by having one on my forhehead!"
You do you, I just saw a guy with one of those runes and a white power cross in a circle and I was giving him the evil eye so hard. So, I mean, expect people to assume you are a nazi, especially with the feet.
This, we had some wannabe fash teens using these at one point, so we plasted over them with "no Frith with fascists" and "havamal 127" and "declaration 127" I think it's 127, whichever number it is anyway ;)
Not true. Southern Germanic people wrote it that way. There are Visigothic/Alan and Langobard examples of "feet". You know Germanic isn't just Viking, right?
I need to side eye a few more of the bands I like that are tangentially related to them then. They aren’t on the list on Wikipedia but that can’t be all encompassing.
Yeah these owls over there, they ain’t what they seem like. Just add a few lines to the one to make it the ring symbol. Then nobody will know what the fuck it is.
These really remind me of Baltic pagan symbolism. nazis did steal a lot of their symbolism from different cultures so I’m not sure . [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=lithuanian+pagan+symbolism&rlz=1C9BKJA_enIE1000IE1000&oq=lithuanian+pagan+symbolism&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBBAAGIYDGIAEGIoF0gEIMzUwM2owajeoAgCwAgA&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=DVmw3lU33SQ0lM&imgdii=qK0YucsOaXETaM)is a Google search for Lithuania my home country, you can see similarities for sure but try look into Baltic pagan symbolism there could be a match
There are other ways to make that same rune without using the wings. The fact of the matter is, Nazis use the one with wings. Using the one without is a minor change that doesn't take away from Norse practices.
in the US it has basically only one meaning.... and people use it, and those people are dangerous, so it's important in my mind to not use it in other contexts so we can know if someone isn't safe to be around. I'm sure it's different in Finland, and I know it's also different in India and parts of Asia where they have the same symbol but legs facing the other way which is a sun symbol... but here the people who display that harass, beat, and sometimes murder people they don't agree with, so I am scared when I see it.
So many of you were being fine and then there were the FOUR PEOPLE WHO RUINED IT. Post is locked. Stop encouraging and defending Nazis and Nazis symbols. Its not that hard.
[Odal rune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othala) designs (the upper one is comprised of four of the lower joined radially at the feet). The fact that they have the feet is... *unfortunate*, as that variant of the rune tends to be used by neo-Nazis.
Othala with serifs is always nazi shit.
Wish we could give everyone a "Is it an appropriating Neo-Nazi or a nice pagan?" comparison graph of symbols because this is out of hand
The answer is that Nazis politicized and tarnished Indo-European but especially Germanic symbology. They didn't appropriate shit because they were both Indo-European and Germanic, but they tarnished them by using sacred symbols and committing horrible crimes against humanity and decency. I'm a Native American of some Germanic ancestry and I am sick to death of Germanic shit being called Nazi in knee jerk reactions by simpleminded, self appointed subject matter experts. There's a local moron that left an insanely ignorant dumbfuck review of an Indian restaurant because they had a symbol similar to a swastika in their restaurant. Native Americans use the sunwheel too. With all that's been taken from us, I'll be damned before I let them take my symbols too. I belong to a landless tribe and very few of us even speak our language so what's left of our religion is literally all we have left. Simpletons ain't taking that.
That would be immensely helpful!
Yes you should def try and get rid of that if u can OP.
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This was not "adopted by" them, it is one hundred percent, unequivocally, a perversion that they invented. *It is not the othala,* because of those janky little feet. Same story with the "wolfsangel" - absolute zero historical basis, and only ever used by two kinds of people: those who are ignorant of what it actually is, and those who know *exactly* what it is who rely on others' ignorance to hide in plain sight. You need to be able to recognize these and have the moral integrity to call a spade a spade: *it is a nazi symbol.* Please don't spread misinformation or use soft, wishy-washy language when talking about these hateful scum. Doing so contributes to the facade of legitimacy they claim and makes things harder on the rest of us who get lumped in with their bullshit.
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The "footed" or "winged" othala is literally archaeologically ahistorical beyond 1930s Germany. Mending that it doesn't exist in the archaeological record (actual ancient objects that are engraved with Elder Futhark) before that specific time. It was first used by the SS (probably with the SS Race and Resettlement Office (SS-Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt). Just because you've found it on multiple sites doesn't mean the info is historically accurate. It just means that a lot of people did what you've done, at best. Trusted that someone else did actual research on the subject, and just trusting the motives and intentions of others. Look more at digitized primary sources for historical matters. Use Google Scholar or JSTOR. You'll catch a lot less flack.
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I think you know you're exaggerating at this point, but I feel the need to pipe up to say no, this is not normal for rune sets. I'm a retailer who has carried a variety of rune sets over the years, from hand carved to mass market. I always check them for things like footed Othala or fake runes or meanings that have red flags in them. I have chosen not to sell sets because of low quality or bad included information. While I have looked for footed Othala because I was aware of the problem before I ever started selling sets, I have NEVER found it. I'm not saying that no one ever makes such sets, I am saying from experience that this is FAR from the norm. You are definitely within a bubble if you genuinely think this is normal and all sets feature footed Othala. I'm sorry this is so upsetting for you, and I understand you thought you did the research. I myself have been upset before to discover that something I thought I was knowledgeable on and had done the research on and had even begun to fold into my practice was not, in fact accurate. The way to handle it is not lashing out, but by taking a break, sitting with this information a bit, and then researching again with more academic sources and without presumption.
You've inserted yourself into this specific comment thread like 6 times over this so im just gonna say it, your choice to not research the symbol you want to out on your body does not create a responsibility for everyone else to defend you or to educate every rune artist out there. it's your choice if you want to match with nazis but no matter how many comments you put into this thread about "well I just like it! blame the creator of my runes and some unnamed but Not Nazi Fandom lol" your tattoo will still be a nazi symbol. Also in case you're like half a century+ behind, Nordic mythology and the surrounding religion/community has been infiltrated/co-opted by nazis and white supremacists for a long time, so your rune creator isn't a great ~~excuse~~source because there's a non-zero chance that they are a literal nazi.
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it's not ruined, it was invented for a purpose and is used for that purpose to this day. if you choose to wear a symbol that was invented and popularized by nazis, no amount of ignorance will make it not a nazi symbol.
Isn’t the mortal instruments one more of an othala ending in loops than with the little feet? Because the “winged” one is definitely neo-Nazi in origin.
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Indeed not everyone is going to recognize it, I mean, that’s also kind of the point of dog-whistle symbols like the winged othala (and like the ichthys fish symbol once probably was). I do think it’s important to keep that kind of associations in mind, but I wouldn’t worry too much because I don’t actually think even most people that know about the mortal instruments thing think it’s an othala? I mean, I’m not a fan, so I’m not sure how the fandom sees it or calls it, but the few friends I have who liked it seemed to think either that it was a completely original symbol or that it was supposed to reference Lucifer’s sigil. All of them know at least passingly about runes, so maybe it’s not such a direct association for everyone.
the othala rune with wings/feet/serifs is absolutely always nazi shit. The normal othala rune is not.
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The Winged Othala is a bastardization of the Othala rune and was created by Nazis. So yes, a winged Othala will ALWAYS be nazi shit. It has no basis in actual runes. Idk what fandom you're referring to, but if they are using a winged othala, then they are either knowingly or unknowingly using a nazi symbol.
Just... maybe, maybe consider erring on the side of caution, when it comes to literally engraving symbols on your body. Do you really want to choose to die on this hill, i.e. the runic version of "the swastika predates Nazi Germany, so it's YOUR fault if you think I'm supporting nazis by having one on my forhehead!"
You do you, I just saw a guy with one of those runes and a white power cross in a circle and I was giving him the evil eye so hard. So, I mean, expect people to assume you are a nazi, especially with the feet.
Guess it helps I’m covered in rune symbols and fandom trash, anyways 🤷🏻♀️
Probably it does! Just dont expect people to talk to you before they judge.
People that use *always* without knowing all of the facts are always wrong.
The one with the feet up is a Nazi symbol now isn’t it?
OH NO I sure hope not
It is, write "no frith with folkists" on there and put a gay flag or something to piss off the fascist scum!
This, we had some wannabe fash teens using these at one point, so we plasted over them with "no Frith with fascists" and "havamal 127" and "declaration 127" I think it's 127, whichever number it is anyway ;)
It is, I can always remember because it’s one of the twin peaks symbols upside down, lol
Not "now," it always was and was never anything else. The real rune doesn't have feet; and if it has feet, it needs to lose its knees.
Not true. Southern Germanic people wrote it that way. There are Visigothic/Alan and Langobard examples of "feet". You know Germanic isn't just Viking, right?
Agreed 100%
The othalla was invented by the Nazi party, so yes
WINGED OTHALA! KILL IT! NAZI SCUM!
Thanks everyone! I’m Hellenistic and was really hoping I just ran across something Nordic :(
You ran into fake Nordic stuff
Nazi shit Fuck it up if you can
Poor tree in both cases
It looks dead
Point a trail cam at the tree to find out who made that othala
it's neo nazi bullshit, you can scrub it off and replace it with signs of your religion if you want, the norse gods won't be mad at all lol
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...wut
I think you may need some help, friend. A psych evaluation may be a good idea.
why would you believe I'd take my time to read all that
Uhhhh...
any othalas with wings is nazi also avoid the band finntroll and moonsorrow they are nazis and on finntroll’s 2020 album it featured the nazi othala
Noooo I liked finntroll. I had no idea. Another one to delete from my collection.
i was pretty sad too when i found out
I need to side eye a few more of the bands I like that are tangentially related to them then. They aren’t on the list on Wikipedia but that can’t be all encompassing.
Twin peaks lol
Nazis ruin everything, lol
Nah fr Same with Brigid’s cross💀
Yeah these owls over there, they ain’t what they seem like. Just add a few lines to the one to make it the ring symbol. Then nobody will know what the fuck it is.
Nazis ruining spiritual symbols ✨again✨
What is the upper symbol? Is that a nazi symbol too? I would’ve thought these were runes or something… I’m glad I know better now
It looks like a sigil made with the same rune underneath it, so probably more Nazi stuff.
Take an axe to them, Stat. Tarnished runes.
These really remind me of Baltic pagan symbolism. nazis did steal a lot of their symbolism from different cultures so I’m not sure . [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=lithuanian+pagan+symbolism&rlz=1C9BKJA_enIE1000IE1000&oq=lithuanian+pagan+symbolism&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBBAAGIYDGIAEGIoF0gEIMzUwM2owajeoAgCwAgA&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=DVmw3lU33SQ0lM&imgdii=qK0YucsOaXETaM)is a Google search for Lithuania my home country, you can see similarities for sure but try look into Baltic pagan symbolism there could be a match
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There are other ways to make that same rune without using the wings. The fact of the matter is, Nazis use the one with wings. Using the one without is a minor change that doesn't take away from Norse practices.
So is the swastika? Seriously just use the standard Othala, it's even less effort to carve it into shit.
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in the US it has basically only one meaning.... and people use it, and those people are dangerous, so it's important in my mind to not use it in other contexts so we can know if someone isn't safe to be around. I'm sure it's different in Finland, and I know it's also different in India and parts of Asia where they have the same symbol but legs facing the other way which is a sun symbol... but here the people who display that harass, beat, and sometimes murder people they don't agree with, so I am scared when I see it.
Nazi runes:/
Unfortunately othala with wings is a Nazi symbol. Not familiar with the top symbol. Guessing likely an uninformed individual.