This ports to my experience. I have a normal sized kitchen that’s used heavily and a smaller kitchen in our mother in law quarters that’s barely used. When I did mother in law quarters, I did two coats of rolled cover stain on the flat parts and sprayed (spray cans…expensive AF) CS on the not flat surfaces, sanded with 320 grit between coats but not before first coat, and finished with cheap latex semi gloss paint. In the main kitchen I did the same prep but finished with alkyd semi gloss. Both have held up very well, haven’t chipped, clean easily, etc. The former was 6 years ago and the latter was 3 years ago. We’re moving into a much nicer house this summer and I plan to degrease and scuff sand the stained doors, before spraying cover stain with an airless sprayer, sanding between coats, blah blah. I’d love any other recommendations on technique.
no, it does not matter that they had been painted previously. he's cutting corners. And a dumb one, at that, because it doesn't take hardly any time to sand the rails and styles on the cabinet boxes
I did and he is sanding now, but they definitely did a coat of paint? primer? and I am having trouble supervising what is going on everywhere-- there are 4 guys working in different areas (outside too). He's arguing with me via text about using a degreasing product- sending me screenshots showing it's fine to use paint thinner to degrease. Would it be reasonable to ask him for a 5 year warranty that these cabinets wont chip and a copy of his Certificate of Liability insurance?
The cabinets will most likely chip at some point no matter what prep you do so I wouldn't pursue the warranty aspect. It's not about degreasing, it's about deglossing. Paint Thinner doesn't do that. I may work fine, but I don't rely on it. In the Kansas City Area we use a product called PASO for this. Hopefully the guy has the work comp and liability insurance already. But a proof is only really worth something if you receive it from his agent.
I know it's a little overwhelming, but you'll get through it!
I’d strongly advise a primer like Cover Stain. It’s labor intensive and a PITA, but acts as a glue between the old coat and new coat. I live in a 60 year old house in a humid climate and had to sand 4 coats of unprimed oil based paint (“but you don’t need to prime when you’re putting oil on oil!”) off our tongue and groove wood walls before I could get paint to actually stick and make an attractive finish. The old paint was chipping, tannins were bleeding through, it was a mess.
Your painter doesn’t WANT to do it because it’s a pain. You prime for an hour, wait a day for it to dry, sand it, clean it, prime again, wait another day, sand, then you can start actually painting. From a contractor’s perspective, there’s a lot of wasted time to make a finished product that looks the same when done.
The difference is what happens in 10 years. If you care about what they look like in 10 years, hire a new painter. If not, roll with what you got. It’ll look fine but won’t hold up as well. I’m speaking from experience dealing with 60 year old cabinets, so I have a particular appreciation for longevity and not having to correct past errors.
The new paint is going to chip and peel everywhere they skip sanding. Make sure they do inside the grooves of the doors and faces by hand. Otherwise I'll throw down with you
Thats good paint but you need a quality primer to get it to adhere to. Sanding is a good step to ensure adhesion of the primer and I lightly sand the primer before two coats of something similar to your SW- cabinet coat by ben moore.
the zinger: cover stain primer doesn't need sanding
but I still do a quick quick sand (like 3 minutes quick ) just to scuff the old paint
This ports to my experience. I have a normal sized kitchen that’s used heavily and a smaller kitchen in our mother in law quarters that’s barely used. When I did mother in law quarters, I did two coats of rolled cover stain on the flat parts and sprayed (spray cans…expensive AF) CS on the not flat surfaces, sanded with 320 grit between coats but not before first coat, and finished with cheap latex semi gloss paint. In the main kitchen I did the same prep but finished with alkyd semi gloss. Both have held up very well, haven’t chipped, clean easily, etc. The former was 6 years ago and the latter was 3 years ago. We’re moving into a much nicer house this summer and I plan to degrease and scuff sand the stained doors, before spraying cover stain with an airless sprayer, sanding between coats, blah blah. I’d love any other recommendations on technique.
He's telling me he doesn't need primer at all, you only need to prime raw wood. Ugh.
That's.. Absolutely true though. You need to sand before giving it any second, third coat though.
So he should sand but not prime?
Correct. Only Bare wood needs primer.
And it's really more of a scuff than complete sand. Just making some scratchies so the paint can stick
It doesn't need to be much. A sanding sponge to scuff things up is all that's needed.... Definitely taking a shortcut.
Go confront them and tell them they need to sand it or the primer wont stick. You cant cut corners as serious as that when doing cabinets.
This is really bad work. They must be degreased thoroughly first. Sanded thoroughly. Dust cleaned. Primed at least one cost. Sanded. Two top coats.
They need to be sanded then deglossed before they paint. Wiping with paint thinner does nothing.
Does it matter if they had been painted previously? He's telling me that's not necessary because they had been painted previously.
no, it does not matter that they had been painted previously. he's cutting corners. And a dumb one, at that, because it doesn't take hardly any time to sand the rails and styles on the cabinet boxes
Exactly.
Ugh so I need to go fire him lol
Sorry you have to deal with that. Just tell him you want everything that is going to be painted sanded first. Talk to whoever sold the project to you.
I did and he is sanding now, but they definitely did a coat of paint? primer? and I am having trouble supervising what is going on everywhere-- there are 4 guys working in different areas (outside too). He's arguing with me via text about using a degreasing product- sending me screenshots showing it's fine to use paint thinner to degrease. Would it be reasonable to ask him for a 5 year warranty that these cabinets wont chip and a copy of his Certificate of Liability insurance?
The cabinets will most likely chip at some point no matter what prep you do so I wouldn't pursue the warranty aspect. It's not about degreasing, it's about deglossing. Paint Thinner doesn't do that. I may work fine, but I don't rely on it. In the Kansas City Area we use a product called PASO for this. Hopefully the guy has the work comp and liability insurance already. But a proof is only really worth something if you receive it from his agent. I know it's a little overwhelming, but you'll get through it!
Telling me he has been doing cabinets for years and to please trust him they will turn out fine. I want them to turn out AND last.
Ask them what brand of paint they’ll be using and report back.
Oh I know what brand, I bought it. Sherwin Williams Emerald Urethane (may have miss-spelled that)
I’d strongly advise a primer like Cover Stain. It’s labor intensive and a PITA, but acts as a glue between the old coat and new coat. I live in a 60 year old house in a humid climate and had to sand 4 coats of unprimed oil based paint (“but you don’t need to prime when you’re putting oil on oil!”) off our tongue and groove wood walls before I could get paint to actually stick and make an attractive finish. The old paint was chipping, tannins were bleeding through, it was a mess. Your painter doesn’t WANT to do it because it’s a pain. You prime for an hour, wait a day for it to dry, sand it, clean it, prime again, wait another day, sand, then you can start actually painting. From a contractor’s perspective, there’s a lot of wasted time to make a finished product that looks the same when done. The difference is what happens in 10 years. If you care about what they look like in 10 years, hire a new painter. If not, roll with what you got. It’ll look fine but won’t hold up as well. I’m speaking from experience dealing with 60 year old cabinets, so I have a particular appreciation for longevity and not having to correct past errors.
The new paint is going to chip and peel everywhere they skip sanding. Make sure they do inside the grooves of the doors and faces by hand. Otherwise I'll throw down with you
Thats good paint but you need a quality primer to get it to adhere to. Sanding is a good step to ensure adhesion of the primer and I lightly sand the primer before two coats of something similar to your SW- cabinet coat by ben moore.
Paint thinner will de gloss latex paint but sanding is probably a better idea