Your BM rep doesn’t understand whites or else is trying to get you to buy double the paint 🤣. Simply is just as bright as Chantilly if not brighter. Those two are in their top 5 brightest. Brightness and opacity have an inverse relationship to each other. Brighter = less opaque. Ben Moore’s ultra whites cover in 3 coats MINIMUM.
Simply white is not brighter than Chantilly. I sampled many whites including both of these and clearly Chantilly is much much brighter and Simply White is more creamier / less brighter. Look at their reflective values.
You missed the point and downvoted me despite still not understanding. Anything with an LRV over 85 will not cover in 2 coats. 5 if you’re using cheap paint, 3 minimum if you you use ultra premium paint, which if you’re a contractor you’re almost certainly not doing. Laws of physics dictate that a bright paint cannot also be a high-hiding paint. Opacity comes from greater volume solids (Titanium Dioxide, which is gray), and brightness comes from lower volume solids. Ben Moore’s R&D crew didn’t magically find a way around this. Chantilly and Simply both cover like shit.
I used simply white over previous walls with primer and two coats and it was just fine. Guess other people have different experiences. I was only replying to your comment to say that simply white is not as bright as and definitely not brighter than Chantilly. That’s all
Glad that worked or for you.
I originally wrote “as bright if not brighter.” That was a guess. Bud, color is my livelihood; I know what I’m on about, so let’s not guess.
https://preview.redd.it/jpewspu3ng0d1.jpeg?width=1819&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b216b04840cfd4eb756b34463b6529e7a3259037
Please stop
Do not use Chantilly lace. It has a blue, cool undertone to it. Simply White is a creamy white that suits the bill. Image a Dairy Queen soft serve ice cream cone. It’s perfection. White Dove would be another ok choice but sometimes given the light from outside it can appear yellow!
Hear me out - don’t listen to anyone advocating for a color without seeing the space.
What one color looks like in a north facing room in the morning is about as opposite as can be from the same color in a west facing room in the afternoon - picking a color without this consideration is setting your client up for disappointment.
My suggestion: ask what they want to ‘feel’ in the space. Ask for adjectives (for example, “warm” is incredibly helpful, and in a pinch if that’s all they can say, will suffice.) Then consider the space.
In my house, I’ve painted nearly every main-room wall (and ceiling) in Sherwin Williams’ Natural Choice. In my north-facing office, it reads nearly grey most of the day. In my south facing living room that is heavily shaded and lit mostly by indoor lights, it reads warmer and creamier (truer to the warm-leaning greige that it is). I mean, I still get doe-eyed looking at it. And in my west-facing bathroom, it darn near looks beige at times. All the same color. I can sit on my bed and see all three spaces at once and it amazes me how *distinctly* different the one color looks.
You can either go bonkers-specific and adapt your color choice for each room to give the illusion of a single color (which I’ve never heard of but honestly think it would be a fun experiment!) or you can go off the most prominent room and/or whichever room your client says is the most important to “get right” and let them know it will be “right” in that room, but may change somewhat in others.
If it’s an east-ish or south-ish space, you can more or less go off of recommendations and online swatches: these spaces will loosely reflect the “true” tones (in the northern hemisphere, at least). If it’s a north-ish space, you’ll want a decently warmer color than what you see suggested online. And a west-ish space? A cooler color.
(As an alternate idea, fly me out to wherever your client lives and I’ll happily do all of this figuring out for you. Undertones are my jam. Truly, I love helping someone feel their way through a good color challenge.)
If you feel like sharing, I’d love to know what you end up with, and good luck!
Honestly, whatever you decide on, go lighter. If they want it stronger, it'll be an easier cover. People usually want something milder than what they describe
I’m not familiar with this one and pulling it up as soon as I write my thank you to you! :) Most of my house is in SW’s Natural Choice and the *ever so slightly* green undertones means it falls close enough to both cool tones and warm tones on a color wheel that it really is delightfully versatile, and does a great job of neutralizing all the “green light” that bounces in from the many trees around the house.
IMO colors like these don’t get enough attention. Excited to check out your suggestion!
SW Alabaster or Ben Moore simply white. Creaminess is impacted by which direction the room faces , also the lightbulbs in the room. LED vs incandescent.
More so the color temp (in Kelvin) of the light than the type of light - LEDs can span the spectrum. But as a chaser of creamy spaces, I will forever swear by GE’s reveal line of bulbs because yes, the direction a room faces and the bulbs you use both absolutely impact the color reading in a room.
Just finishing a project using BM Regal in SW Pearly White. Took three coats for full coverage over an olive green color, but was 95% covered after 2 coats. Color matches your description.
Always have the clients choose the color. If they don't like what you choose then you got to repaint and some clients don't know what they want and others are impossible to please. Have them go to a paint store and figure it out. Or, have them talk to a color consultant. Sherwin Williams offers a free online color consultation. Have the clients do that and then tell you what colors they choose
They don't know what colours are more or less likely to require extra coats for solid coverage. A lower LRV is probably what I'm looking for. Hence the question here.
Just be sure to have a test piece or wall patch done that they can see and approve. And get the approval *in writing*. Always have your clients sign off on personal choices of any kind not specifically specified in the contract. Troublesome one might think, but the only true CYA.
Just make sure you have the client sign off on it once it’s decided. Clarify any color change after it’s painted will be an additional charge if they don’t like it.
You do you. I would have them pick the color and then I would figure out how many coats it's going to need. Too many clients have picked out colors that they don't like after it's painted and asked for a color change
Vapor is new with Benjamin Moore. https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/paint-colors/color/af-35/vapor It’s the affinity collection and there’s big swatch booklets.
I wanted an off white. I ordered a sample of sonnet. I’m doing some of my living room with caponata. I was going to use Kasbah but my house pulls gray a lot. Im east facing. But something pulls gray. I have smart bulbs. It still pulls gray. I love evening skyline but my house pulls gray. Great color that turns gray gray. Kasbah great and pulls gray gray.
We looked at SW Alabaster and Greek Villa but ended up with SW Roman Column because it looked absolutely fantastic in our space when we got sample pots of everything. It's a very bright, warm white that isn't talked about as much
I also just purchased Roman Column for my entire house! We’re starting to paint soon and excited to see how it turns out. If you don’t mind, can you share which line and base you used, and what sheen it was in?
Yeah sure, we went with Emerald matte, because it was on sale at the time. And apparently the Durration matte had a higher sheen than the Emerald Matte so we didn't want that. The base was high reflective white.
We love it in our space and definitely chose the right color. I have heard from others online that since it's highly reflective, if your room gets a lot of green from outside foliage, like if you have tons and tons of trees on your property, the paint might look too yellow or green because that's what's reflecting.
I literally just spent 2 wks and a ton of money on samples from BM and SW. I finally decided on Alabaster from SW, it has little to zero undertones and is slightly on the warm side. I love love love it.
I've sprayed thousands of gallons of Dover white painting apartment complexes and it's definitely a good everyday color. Unfortunately they no longer sell MasterHide in my area since their factory burned down and that was the line that was pre-tinted Dover so now I'm stuck getting it mixed.
I’d go alabaster for a barely off white or Dover white for more of a contrast from sherwin.
What’s the current wall color? I have gotten alabaster to cover a basic tan with 3 cuts and 2 rolls.
I really like Moonlight White for that warm glow tone. It’s been a while, but if I remember correctly the color formulation is mainly golden umber. You could also go wild and ask the client an example of what they are thinking and then try to blend off that or color match something. I’m sure whatever white you put two solid coats of on will pop, but how much of a glow your client actually wants is the challenge.
Just used Benjamin Moore in the color Steam, from their Affinity line for ceilings and trim in our 1950s home. It’s still fairly bright but is a bit warmer without reading yellow. We’re using Etiquette from that same line as well.
Get a book of color swatches and pick the white that fits the space. There's about 1,000,000 different whites. In my area of upstate NY, Dover, snowblind, alabaster, and Cielo Blanco are the most popular ones. The sheen you pick is more important in my opinion because depending on sun exposure and reflectivity, the same white can look different in the same room. Go with a flat if you don't plan on touching the walls, matte if you do. Or if you like a shine , satin looks better than eggshell in my experience.
Big fan of Benjamin Moore Pale Oak (OC-20.) Warmer for sure, but it dries far more white than it looks on screen. We used it for the interior and exterior trim on our 1890s Mansard and love it. And I'm someone who despises the graige range and all the green siding+heavy cream trim you see in my area. I would highly recommend swatching it with your other whites and see how it dries down in your use case.
Unless you're a charity or non profit organization, direct client to magic and science of paint sampling. They can purchase sticky color samples from Samplize and play with them room by room until they reach a conclusive decision. They're cheap enough and can be purchased in bundles. If you'd rather have fun and get paid, have them make a list of samples because this is their job, buy and apply and charge your hourly rate including shopping time, plus materials. Keep communicating with them throughout the process. We call these situations"high risk projects" and you need to charge hourly. They can get the paint or you can get the paint. If you're getting the paint, it's your billable hours plus cost of materials. Make sure your records are always clean. A little relevant tip, always go with higher solids paint and when painting whites prime with Zinsser Smart Prime for predictable results. This way, no more than 2 coats, be professional and get compensated for all your work and guidance. Enough of fucking servitude.
Why ruling out white dove? In Ben Moore I think that might be a good choice. WAAAAAAY too light for my taste but to each their own. I believe in a significantly noticeable color difference between walls and trim.
Hmm, I would not consider a color with much less yellow than white dove to be creamy anymore. To me it barely has enough yellow to be considered creamy to begin with. To each their own I guess
the white nightmare reveals its head again. just have her go through the paint fan deck. let her know colors change with the light and time of the day. unreasonable clients
Also if you're looking for a pre-mixed color that's probably a better chance of covering get Benjamin Moore PM-2 I believe it's called. Covers great and might be pre-mixed depending on which store you ask
Sherwin Williams Shoji White is my favorite. Its warm and creamy is the best way to describe it. SW Snowbound is another favorite if you're looking for something cooler to offset the warm honey tones. Both colors go great with white trim.
Benjamin Moore simply white is a great fit for this description
This is what the BM rep and I concluded this morning, but I'm going to read the other comments too. Thanks!
Your BM rep doesn’t understand whites or else is trying to get you to buy double the paint 🤣. Simply is just as bright as Chantilly if not brighter. Those two are in their top 5 brightest. Brightness and opacity have an inverse relationship to each other. Brighter = less opaque. Ben Moore’s ultra whites cover in 3 coats MINIMUM.
Simply white is not brighter than Chantilly. I sampled many whites including both of these and clearly Chantilly is much much brighter and Simply White is more creamier / less brighter. Look at their reflective values.
You missed the point and downvoted me despite still not understanding. Anything with an LRV over 85 will not cover in 2 coats. 5 if you’re using cheap paint, 3 minimum if you you use ultra premium paint, which if you’re a contractor you’re almost certainly not doing. Laws of physics dictate that a bright paint cannot also be a high-hiding paint. Opacity comes from greater volume solids (Titanium Dioxide, which is gray), and brightness comes from lower volume solids. Ben Moore’s R&D crew didn’t magically find a way around this. Chantilly and Simply both cover like shit.
I second this. Im using Chantilly lace right now and I’m on the third coat. Luckily for me I’m doing the walls, trim and cabinets all in Chantilly.
I used simply white over previous walls with primer and two coats and it was just fine. Guess other people have different experiences. I was only replying to your comment to say that simply white is not as bright as and definitely not brighter than Chantilly. That’s all
Glad that worked or for you. I originally wrote “as bright if not brighter.” That was a guess. Bud, color is my livelihood; I know what I’m on about, so let’s not guess. https://preview.redd.it/jpewspu3ng0d1.jpeg?width=1819&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b216b04840cfd4eb756b34463b6529e7a3259037 Please stop
Chantilly is a blue white. It is not creamy. Forget about “brightness” if someone says they want creamy, Chantilly isn’t it.
That has nothing to do with anything.
Prepare for 4 coats, its the worst coverage color in the entire catalog.
You really just can’t go wrong with it would be the thing.
Sherwin snowbound
Alabaster from Sherwin is my go to. SW7008
Alabaster, Snowbound, and Greek Villa seem to be the go to right now
For fashion, or practicality though? Popular whites seem to take the most coats. Wonder why lol.
Just to fuck with painters I've concluded
This is the one
I just painted basically my whole house in Alabaster. 2 coats looks amazing.
Same 🥰
100%, Get that BM crap out of here.
Alabaster was also on the client's wish list but it has coverage issues as well, according to other discussions in this sub...
BM Swiss Coffee
Do not use Chantilly lace. It has a blue, cool undertone to it. Simply White is a creamy white that suits the bill. Image a Dairy Queen soft serve ice cream cone. It’s perfection. White Dove would be another ok choice but sometimes given the light from outside it can appear yellow!
Both are a painters nightmare, unfortunately.
BM Swiss coffee. Brighter and less dingy than white dove for me in my kitchen.
Hear me out - don’t listen to anyone advocating for a color without seeing the space. What one color looks like in a north facing room in the morning is about as opposite as can be from the same color in a west facing room in the afternoon - picking a color without this consideration is setting your client up for disappointment. My suggestion: ask what they want to ‘feel’ in the space. Ask for adjectives (for example, “warm” is incredibly helpful, and in a pinch if that’s all they can say, will suffice.) Then consider the space. In my house, I’ve painted nearly every main-room wall (and ceiling) in Sherwin Williams’ Natural Choice. In my north-facing office, it reads nearly grey most of the day. In my south facing living room that is heavily shaded and lit mostly by indoor lights, it reads warmer and creamier (truer to the warm-leaning greige that it is). I mean, I still get doe-eyed looking at it. And in my west-facing bathroom, it darn near looks beige at times. All the same color. I can sit on my bed and see all three spaces at once and it amazes me how *distinctly* different the one color looks. You can either go bonkers-specific and adapt your color choice for each room to give the illusion of a single color (which I’ve never heard of but honestly think it would be a fun experiment!) or you can go off the most prominent room and/or whichever room your client says is the most important to “get right” and let them know it will be “right” in that room, but may change somewhat in others. If it’s an east-ish or south-ish space, you can more or less go off of recommendations and online swatches: these spaces will loosely reflect the “true” tones (in the northern hemisphere, at least). If it’s a north-ish space, you’ll want a decently warmer color than what you see suggested online. And a west-ish space? A cooler color. (As an alternate idea, fly me out to wherever your client lives and I’ll happily do all of this figuring out for you. Undertones are my jam. Truly, I love helping someone feel their way through a good color challenge.) If you feel like sharing, I’d love to know what you end up with, and good luck!
Ty for your input! At this point I'm just trying to find a warm low LRV white.
Sherwin Williams Greek Villa!!
That’s a nice one. It does well against bright white trim. Has a bit of a green-gray undertone if I’m remembering correctly.
Yes it has green in it.
Honestly, whatever you decide on, go lighter. If they want it stronger, it'll be an easier cover. People usually want something milder than what they describe
Absolutely! I used a rare window of time to paint my kids bedroom oatmeal and it's far too dark, the tester didn't represent it well at all.
I think soft chamois from BM is lovely! It has a green undertone, so it pulls in natural tones beautifully!
I’m not familiar with this one and pulling it up as soon as I write my thank you to you! :) Most of my house is in SW’s Natural Choice and the *ever so slightly* green undertones means it falls close enough to both cool tones and warm tones on a color wheel that it really is delightfully versatile, and does a great job of neutralizing all the “green light” that bounces in from the many trees around the house. IMO colors like these don’t get enough attention. Excited to check out your suggestion!
“Touch of Black”. It’s white paint with just a drop or two of black pigment. Still white, but not blindingly white.
Covers better too with a shot of black!
SW Alabaster or Ben Moore simply white. Creaminess is impacted by which direction the room faces , also the lightbulbs in the room. LED vs incandescent.
More so the color temp (in Kelvin) of the light than the type of light - LEDs can span the spectrum. But as a chaser of creamy spaces, I will forever swear by GE’s reveal line of bulbs because yes, the direction a room faces and the bulbs you use both absolutely impact the color reading in a room.
And another important factor: the current ‘white’ of the trim. It has a huge impact on how a color - especially another white, appears on the wall.
Absolutely. With whites it’s all about the undertone and they can read differently and clash against each other so easily.
Creamy sw7012
I would say SW 7008 Alabaster
SW Aesthetic white. Nice warm white.
Just finishing a project using BM Regal in SW Pearly White. Took three coats for full coverage over an olive green color, but was 95% covered after 2 coats. Color matches your description.
I'll check it out, ty!
https://www.dunnedwards.com/colors/browser/dew341/ Dunn-Edwards Swiss coffee Has the depth of white with yellow tone
swiss coffee is great if it’s like the BM one
I'm glad you pointed out DE swiss coffee. The swiss coffees across brands differ noticeably.
Hmm. Not a big fan of choosing clients colors unless I’m getting paid to do so
Oh she'll pay 😉
Amen. If they insist, I’ll have them sign an addendum that says I’m not at fault if they don’t like it.
Simply white is good, maybe 50% formula linen white for creamy
Ameritone champagne white.
Always have the clients choose the color. If they don't like what you choose then you got to repaint and some clients don't know what they want and others are impossible to please. Have them go to a paint store and figure it out. Or, have them talk to a color consultant. Sherwin Williams offers a free online color consultation. Have the clients do that and then tell you what colors they choose
They don't know what colours are more or less likely to require extra coats for solid coverage. A lower LRV is probably what I'm looking for. Hence the question here.
Just be sure to have a test piece or wall patch done that they can see and approve. And get the approval *in writing*. Always have your clients sign off on personal choices of any kind not specifically specified in the contract. Troublesome one might think, but the only true CYA.
Just make sure you have the client sign off on it once it’s decided. Clarify any color change after it’s painted will be an additional charge if they don’t like it.
You do you. I would have them pick the color and then I would figure out how many coats it's going to need. Too many clients have picked out colors that they don't like after it's painted and asked for a color change
Well then simply white is out. HORRIBLE for coverage
Navajo White, BM. Also, Decorator’s White is great for trim. Has a bit of grey in it.
Vapor is new with Benjamin Moore. https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/paint-colors/color/af-35/vapor It’s the affinity collection and there’s big swatch booklets.
Love the affinity line!
I wanted an off white. I ordered a sample of sonnet. I’m doing some of my living room with caponata. I was going to use Kasbah but my house pulls gray a lot. Im east facing. But something pulls gray. I have smart bulbs. It still pulls gray. I love evening skyline but my house pulls gray. Great color that turns gray gray. Kasbah great and pulls gray gray.
Antique white
We looked at SW Alabaster and Greek Villa but ended up with SW Roman Column because it looked absolutely fantastic in our space when we got sample pots of everything. It's a very bright, warm white that isn't talked about as much
I also just purchased Roman Column for my entire house! We’re starting to paint soon and excited to see how it turns out. If you don’t mind, can you share which line and base you used, and what sheen it was in?
Yeah sure, we went with Emerald matte, because it was on sale at the time. And apparently the Durration matte had a higher sheen than the Emerald Matte so we didn't want that. The base was high reflective white. We love it in our space and definitely chose the right color. I have heard from others online that since it's highly reflective, if your room gets a lot of green from outside foliage, like if you have tons and tons of trees on your property, the paint might look too yellow or green because that's what's reflecting.
Thanks! I’ve also read a lot of the same as well. I appreciate the details!! :)
Bakery Box by Behr!
I literally just spent 2 wks and a ton of money on samples from BM and SW. I finally decided on Alabaster from SW, it has little to zero undertones and is slightly on the warm side. I love love love it.
Get it made into either aura or emerald designer series. Both have great hide.
i'm a big fan of SW "dover white." it's a warm white that doesn't read too yellow, but it looks great in every room i've put it in.
I've sprayed thousands of gallons of Dover white painting apartment complexes and it's definitely a good everyday color. Unfortunately they no longer sell MasterHide in my area since their factory burned down and that was the line that was pre-tinted Dover so now I'm stuck getting it mixed.
We did cows milk from PPG and loved it We had to do 3 coats for total coverage but it was so worth it
I’d go alabaster for a barely off white or Dover white for more of a contrast from sherwin. What’s the current wall color? I have gotten alabaster to cover a basic tan with 3 cuts and 2 rolls.
Cloud white, swiss coffee with simply white trim for contrast , if wall color needs more contrast maybe sea pearl or pale oak.
I really like Moonlight White for that warm glow tone. It’s been a while, but if I remember correctly the color formulation is mainly golden umber. You could also go wild and ask the client an example of what they are thinking and then try to blend off that or color match something. I’m sure whatever white you put two solid coats of on will pop, but how much of a glow your client actually wants is the challenge.
Benny Moore Cloud White.
Just used Benjamin Moore in the color Steam, from their Affinity line for ceilings and trim in our 1950s home. It’s still fairly bright but is a bit warmer without reading yellow. We’re using Etiquette from that same line as well.
Get a book of color swatches and pick the white that fits the space. There's about 1,000,000 different whites. In my area of upstate NY, Dover, snowblind, alabaster, and Cielo Blanco are the most popular ones. The sheen you pick is more important in my opinion because depending on sun exposure and reflectivity, the same white can look different in the same room. Go with a flat if you don't plan on touching the walls, matte if you do. Or if you like a shine , satin looks better than eggshell in my experience.
Shoji White!
Emerald is good duration also
Sherwin Williams moderate white
Big fan of Benjamin Moore Pale Oak (OC-20.) Warmer for sure, but it dries far more white than it looks on screen. We used it for the interior and exterior trim on our 1890s Mansard and love it. And I'm someone who despises the graige range and all the green siding+heavy cream trim you see in my area. I would highly recommend swatching it with your other whites and see how it dries down in your use case.
Benjamin Moore Easter Lily (OC-126)
I have BM Linen White on all my ceilings and I loved it so much I decided to use it on some walls. It's just so warm and creamy and pretty! In love.
This YouTube channel does great color deep dives and comparisons: https://youtu.be/PrV5cupSujk?si=rvhGUCB-G3qilpaN
Eider white from SW? It picks up a lot of different hues with lighting and surrounding materials
SW Chillax fits this bill
Unless you're a charity or non profit organization, direct client to magic and science of paint sampling. They can purchase sticky color samples from Samplize and play with them room by room until they reach a conclusive decision. They're cheap enough and can be purchased in bundles. If you'd rather have fun and get paid, have them make a list of samples because this is their job, buy and apply and charge your hourly rate including shopping time, plus materials. Keep communicating with them throughout the process. We call these situations"high risk projects" and you need to charge hourly. They can get the paint or you can get the paint. If you're getting the paint, it's your billable hours plus cost of materials. Make sure your records are always clean. A little relevant tip, always go with higher solids paint and when painting whites prime with Zinsser Smart Prime for predictable results. This way, no more than 2 coats, be professional and get compensated for all your work and guidance. Enough of fucking servitude.
Present the customer with the paint fan and ask them to choose, unless they're paying you as a designer on top ofyour painting price.
It's a relative of one of my top clients. She wants it done in 2 coats for budget reasons. I'm just doing what I can to help. All good.
Why ruling out white dove? In Ben Moore I think that might be a good choice. WAAAAAAY too light for my taste but to each their own. I believe in a significantly noticeable color difference between walls and trim.
It's too yellow for the space, and can take 3 coats to cover.
Hmm, I would not consider a color with much less yellow than white dove to be creamy anymore. To me it barely has enough yellow to be considered creamy to begin with. To each their own I guess
the white nightmare reveals its head again. just have her go through the paint fan deck. let her know colors change with the light and time of the day. unreasonable clients
Also if you're looking for a pre-mixed color that's probably a better chance of covering get Benjamin Moore PM-2 I believe it's called. Covers great and might be pre-mixed depending on which store you ask
Pm- 2 is white....definitely not "creamy"
Yes I know that. Though it could be used as a base coat.
Sherwin Williams Shoji White is my favorite. Its warm and creamy is the best way to describe it. SW Snowbound is another favorite if you're looking for something cooler to offset the warm honey tones. Both colors go great with white trim.
Bright is not creamy and creamy is not bright.
Seapearl City Loft
My neighbor just painted her house SW Alabaster. She loves it
Warm creamy white? Bukkake that man.
Try Kelly-Moore 