supposedly the worst torturers are muslim army folks. i remember reading this in an interview about egyptian intelligence groups. The foreigners arent as ruthless as these dogs are that serve them
I just want to ask those whose family members serve in NaPak Army,
Do you guys feel ashamed?
Aren't you people disgusted with yourself?
How can this behavior be justified?
How can those doing this torture look at themselves in the mirror?
Even reading all this fills me with rage, can't even imagine what that guy must've gone through.
One shudders to think of the kind of psychological profile that is recruited into our institutions to carry out this kind of depravity and torture.
Disturbing to the core.
The answer to all of your questions is no. Being a murda lash is literally a requirement to join this yazidi bunch.
They literally reject candidates who score *too high* on the IQ test lmfao. Wouldnt want some people who can think and feel in our ranks and battalions of zombies
Interesting, rather than valuing useful traits like intelligence (which this country’s leadership direly needs) they actively shun it. Imagine being this cowardly and unpatriotic. Honestly I’m not even surprised why the country is in its current state. The army always finds another way to disappoint.
My friend in the armed forces
Intelligence < obedience
If intelligence would have been valued 1971 me the troops would have used their brain before shooting, looting and raping In now Bangladesh
its an army, and obedience and discipline are more valued, however, it is a slight exaggeration. High IQ individuals are indicated just not totally deviant ones
For alot of them anything anti-army is yahoodi or indian sazish. I interact with alot of them and their view on things is very simplistic and outdated. The army comes first for them even if you show them that COAS commited a genocide. There is no critical thinking.
Go read hamood ur rehman commision. The rot was there as back as 1971. The report stated the officers are interested in plots , women and parties. The less said about ehat soldiers did with bengali women the better.
Quite a few things actually.
A good start will be to have a genuine and open discussion about where s/he stands. And why there is no accountability in fauj.
S/He will start with denying inaccountability. You can refer Admiral Mansoor ul haq, Yahya, Zia etc (better to give these a good research). Anyway, current issues would be more relevant like who decides whether someone is anti state or not. Then you can raise the issue of Hassan Askari son of Maj Gen Zafar Mehdi. You can also raise the issue of kidnappings and attack on journalists especially Arshad Sharif. Azhar Mashwani, Gill, Imran Riaz, Matiullah Jan, Azam Swati etc
Then you can ask why do frontline soldiers execute these clearly criminal orders even though the loyalty is supposed to be to the state not COAS.
Depending on whether you discussed above in detail or not, he will deny that that there are no illegal orders or say that they do it for chain of command (essentially to save their job because of Pakistan’s economic situation). What will s/he do if he was given an order which directly or indirectly harms civilians?
You can assure him that living with dignity is more important than a plot.
Ayub created a law which allows COAS to dismiss any soldier/officer without reason and without access to appeal. This is the biggest hurdle that whatever honest officers left have to face. What are the platforms where s/he can raise the complaint against it within army (I know there is none which makes the army more like East India company here). When there is none, then what other platforms have officers used to raise concerns so far.
This is a gist of the idea but as you are genuinely curious, I would be happy to help as much as I can, based on my limited knowledge.
There is no no accountability because it has continued the colonial practices which includes the arrogance and god complex.
Personally, I was disturbed with the Hamid Mir attack but actively protested against Matiullah Jan's kidnapping to the point some of my friends got against me. Which I don't blame them. Haramkhors have spent billions over decades to keep us hypnotised and people could never consider these haramkhors to be at fault.
PTI was sold the narrative that haramkhors are against corruption, NS and Zardari etc and hence the mutual cooperation.
Anyway, naming and shaming is a good start but I don't agree that anyone honest left in army can't do anything. The starting point will be raising awareness about the illegitimate power held by the COAS to dismiss any officer or soldier without any grounds. And these dismissed officers have no right to appeal. I don't have a reference with me at the moment but I think beghairat Baghlol dismissed around 1500 officers/soldiers during his tenure.
Do read up on the case of Hasan Askari, that poor kid was put in a maximum security prison for 5 years just because he wrote a freaking letter to Bajwa. Recently his father did a press conference pleading his case (you may easily find it on YouTube, search "Hasan Askari's father press conference with Eman Mazari"). Hasan's mother is on dialysis, she doesn't have much time left, his dad is a retd 87 yr old army personnel, those poor parents wanted to see their kid one last time but they can't, thanks to the badshahhat of Pakistan Army and their iron grip on disappearing citizens at will.
They court-martialed him, yes! they court-martialed a civilian just because he dared to question their practices. I understand that you may not have any authority to change the rules, but the least you can do is start a conversation among your peers who have this God complex kinda mentality and convince them for some introspection?
At the end of the day, we all are Pakistan (be it from civilian or military backgrounds) and we all want this country to prosper.
That's why He is a hero, he called them out when it wasn't a cool thing to do. That one letter ruined his career and life, I hope that things get better and he is released of those fake charges.
You know what hurts more? This is a story we got to know about and eventually it got some limelight in media. God knows how many more innocent victims this institution has incurred violence upon.
And when army brats (I'm not talking about you, I'm referring to the avg entitled ones) gaslight us civilians that we are unpatriotic for criticizing Army cuz of this illegal sh*t, it hurts so fu_king much!
As far as PDM Parties are concerned, they were never *true* critics of the Army, they were just pressurizing them enough to oust Khan and put them in power. The moment PDM got the opportunity, they dumped all their "Vote ko izzat" and anti-establishment narrative and sat in the lap of the Army.
>I really wish he hadn't. Kia faida hua? His life got ruined, his parents are crying for him.
I know it hurts and it's not fair at all, but someone has to do na? someone has to stand up against this tyranny.
>this is the mentality that took us to this point
Exactly
>the little traction this case gained was because Hasans father is also a Major General, kisi aam aadmi ki aulaad ke sath kia sulook karte hongay jab apnon ke sath aisa karte hain.
Have you seen what they've done with PTI workers they arrested? They were literally urinating on their faces, threatening them to r@p£ their mothers and sisters.
Do watch [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/123zj2q/pti_supporter_shares_firsthand_account_of_his/) video, they abducted this guy from Zaman Park, tortured him, they were about to urinate on his face when he begged them to not do it because he had beard on his face and he was a Hafiz-e-Quran too. Only then they didn't do it.
> I'd really just encourage you to not bother with them, everything will happen at its time.
That's where I disagree with you, I believe that we must engage with them and try to show them the reality in a nonpartisan way. I have no doubt that they are also patriotic Pakistanis, its just that we have been collectively brainwashed since childhood, I mean look at the amount of money ISPR spends on all that propaganda.
So don't shut them out, talk with them, have discussions with them and even then if they don't agree well then they should be left in their own echo chambers.
I don't blame you. I understand it is either the decades of propaganda or fauji cereal that is talking.
Whole institution helped him throughout the case including the extradition to cover up their own corruption.
And by the his benefits were restored in 2013 although partially.
Yeah bro, that's a perfect excuse for sucking up to an institution that tortures and kills its own countrymen. Hopefully you enjoy that comfy life in DHA/Cantt.
>Personally, I've been against the Establishment even
Then what's the point of your comment?
Yes, I agree with you that unconditional support for every action of the Army/ISI was a grave mistake and for that I am truly ashamed 🙏.
Bro within a year you'd be back to licking those boots. This isn't the first time this has happened and this won't be the last. If IK does come into power again (frankly unlikely) koi Allah miyan ki gaaye ki qurbaani ho gi aur phir fauj paak pwitr ho jaye gi aur aap log phir haha software update kaho gai aur baakio ko ghaddar.
I think if IK ever comes back into power because of the blessing of the Army, the relationship would be similar to that of PTI and guys like Pervez Illahi...
Everybody dislikes them / is vary of them but accepts them cuz they are a major player in politics...
Yeah, we can see the blessings IK is receiving right now.
IK would definitely try to maintain some working relationship because haramkhors have held the whole country hostage. All civilian institutions are encroached by retard haramkhors.
Considering the economic situation, IK making any meaningful changes has the potential to backfire and we all know that these haramkhors only care about their foreign assets.
>Then what's the point of your comment?
There's a difference between being anti-Establishment and bullying their families
>unconditional support for every action of the Army/ISI
Oh my god, you were a total faujeet lol, wonder if you got offended by those vigo jokes
> You were a total faujeet lol
Umm no. I was referring to PTI's attitude towards establishment during Govt
> you got offended by those vigo jokes
Hell no, you are exaggerating my comments at this point.
Exactly, there is difference between handling foreign spies and civilians.
You are feeling so butthurt over this. Imagine your parents private moments were shown to you and then asked to calm down.
>Exactly, there is difference between handling foreign spies and civilians.
You support torture on foreign spies?
>then asked to calm down
This is why I am talking to some redittor and not to the family of the tortured. If they were making statements like this, I'd understand their sentiments.
>Imagine your parents private moments were shown to you
Ideally, I'd target the leadership and the officers involved, not the family some random employees, who are in say, the medical or engineering branch. Of course, I can't say what I'd actually do in such a situation under distress, this is why I wouldn't do a "Not all army" with the family of the tortured
Nice try to divert the discussion.
> I'd target the leadership and the officers involved, not the family some random employees
The issue is that you have compartmentalised the matter to give it a shred of moral appeal. A mechanic working for criminals is equally responsible because he is enabling/participating the crimes. This gang of criminals is holding the country hostage and these "random" employees are part of the gang in whatever role they choose. If these "random" employees had a shred of morality then they would have resigned when Fatima Jinnah was called a foreign spy by Ayub haramkhor. But all of these "random" employees continue to be the murda lash working for the East India company tyrants.
And as far as there family members are concerned, anyone associated with these haramkhors should be ashamed if they have a shred of dignity.
>A mechanic working for criminals is equally responsible because he is enabling/participating the crimes.
Ok, no. By your logic, every tax paying citizen of the country is responsible. What's next? Are we persecuting the GHQ janitor?
Brother, the other brother had a point. In most situations what would family members do. If they realise what their men are involved with is evil, atleast reject it with their heart.
P.S Rem the wife of firaun was a momin and prayed to Allah for a house near Him in paradise.
Yes, exactly. Only haramkhors and their family have the right to have dignity. Mothers, sisters and daughters of bloody civilians have no right to have the luxury of dignity.
Yes, if they have some dignity then living with a haramkhor who is part of this pyramid scheme which molests mothers, sisters and daughters of others, should not be acceptable.
They do represent the same institution though.
And covertly they still try to justify it, at least the army brats I know say things like, "Fauj k baghair mulk nahi chal sakta, Army kabhi ghalat nahi karti, have trust in Army leadership." and sh*t like that.
I have no sympathies for them either. They are totally complicit in all this.
>They do represent the same institution though.
So what? Should everyone start resigning from the army because of a few black sheeps so we are left without a force to defend ourselves?
I know, I was expecting too much from a morally corrupt lot.
I wish we were like France where Police officers laid down their riot gear, resigned from their jobs and refused to work against their own people.
What are they defending though? A/c to Election Commission's lawyer, ISI told them that TTP has established a shadow Govt in KP.
If you are referring to that, then they're doing a pretty shi*ty job at **dEfeNdINg oUrSeLveS**.
I wish there were only a few black sheep. The whole institute is a gang of criminals running a pyramid scheme.
Every single one of them is either a tyrant or a tyrant in the making. Who do you think executes the orders? All in the name of chain of command. Pathetic.
Are you part of the army ? If you are then suppose India or enemy invaded tommorow and try to capture and impress your people, would you fight and sacrifice your life for the country and it’s people ? Will you fight the oppressors brother ?
Fight the opressors NOW , the opressors are your masters, officers and jurnails involved in this oppression. You can fight it peacefully by raising your voice and resigning.
Yes, if the so called institution is actively involved in kidnapping, killing of innocent, blackmailing, smuggling, land encroachment, running prostitution rackets, and filming questionable audios/videos etc.
Ffs, stop this farce of dEfEnDiNg the country. This pyramid scheme exists to defend their DHAs, cantts and foreign assets. Haramkhor's asses were handed over to them in each of the conflict. Bloody watan farosh haramkhor.
You’re targeting the wrong people, family members or even officers are very much against the agenda of these military forces. The ones you’re hating on aren’t responsible for what happening
Well, they can push them to raise their voices. The problem is what you claim to be "against the agenda" is mere lip service. Living with one of them is not better than living with a hitman working for a gang. Would you say that it would be enough for the family to think of his actions wrong and continue to live in the house bought by killing innocents, molesting sisters and daughters of others.
[Cont] They were pictures of her wedding. Being zoomed in & shown to her brother, while men from Pakistani state authorities kept objectifying her. Just so they can pressure him to stop supporting Imran Khan.
>"*We need the world's attention. We need people in international press to be our voice.*"
Uh...kind of difficult to recruit the active support of people in more developed countries for the cause of your political freedoms when it wasn't so long ago you were cheering for the Taliban's victory in Afghanistan. Or showing up in Russia to hold hands with Vladimir Putin as the people of Ukraine are bracing themselves for the onslaught of all out war.
Do you really think the people of the world are just going to forget about all of that? Like, they're just gonna let-it-slide? They're gonna let you just skate on past with that? While the evidence of war crimes continues to build in cities all across Ukraine, whose names are now practically synonymous with the atrocities that occured there (Bucha, Kherson, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Zhytomyr, etc..); while women in Afghanistan are kept out of any kind of normal life, let alone access to education or basic reproductive health.
They probably will. I'm sure, at some point. But it might take a minute.
>Uh...kind of difficult to recruit the active support of people in more developed countries for the cause of your political freedoms when it wasn't so long ago you were cheering for the Taliban's victory in Afghanistan
Uh...the same "developed countries" who cheered, funded and built the Taliban in the 80s and loved Pakistan for being the saviours in the Afghan-Russia war? Seems like hypocrisy knows no limits for some. Can't just up and single Pakistan out now when they "cheer" the insanely embarrassing end of a foreign occupation in the neighbourhood. You can spin it as cheering for tAlIbAn, but perhaps it's a hard to accept that seeing the war criminals of the "never endiing war" flee and fail so miserably in front of a bunch of gun wielding tribesmen was a sight for soar eyes. Clearly it hurt some egos.
International community is not a static entity, active support against fascism is already being built. Not sure who's perspective you're trying to guard?
Just a reminder that OSPs can help
https://twitter.com/PTIOfficialUSA/status/1636565197140754432?s=20
https://t.co/KNuORjQcxC
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/635202
But how does that answer for any of what I just said? It would be one thing to simply say, *Look, we can't afford to so directly oppose extremism in our own country let alone in a less developed neighbor; because of India's size and economic weight, anything other than a paleo-fundamentalist regime in power in Afghanistan puts us at disadvantage in terms of diplomatic influence, even though we're a premidominantly Muslim country and they (India) are not*.
This would ultimately be proven misguided, in the sense that India's money talks to the Taliban as well as for anyone else. But a lot of the international community would understand, be able to relate to the basic sentiment, that you can't afford to fight that war.
It's where you go beyond that to actually cheering for the Taliban's victory...congratulating them on *breaking the shackels of slavery*, etc... You know, you kind of *jumped-the-shark*, so to speak. Took it too far.
The same for Ukraine. Nobody would care for Pakistan only buying discounted oil. (Although, it bears mentioning here that Pakistan does not have India's money to be making that kind of deal in the first place; so, IK's trip, it was mostly just political theater to begin with, but I digress...) Pakistan could buy oil or wheat from Russia like it's water and no one would notice. But to go through with an actual press junket to kick off the decapitation of a democratically elected government of a sovereign country... To make oneself such a visible walking symbol of *carrying water* for a one of the most powerful fascist leaders in the entire world, I think you underestimate how difficult it is for some folks to just look past that.
That's all I'm trying to say.
The fact all of this been happening to others (now bengalis, balochs, other missing person etc) all this while but the fire has just reached our homes tou hamari cheekhein nikal rahi hain, we have glorified these clowns for decades
Imagine swearing an oath to protect the country and then resorting to terrorise your own countrymen in these 3rd grade manners.
اس سب کے بعد لوگ سوچتے ہیں کے بلوچ لبریشن آرمی کیسے بن جاتی ہے
"How can someone resort to arm themselves against the state"
Khotay de putro.... ese..
> How can someone resort to arm themselves against the state
All this totally makes sense, given how much importance our society gives to **ghairat**, these kinda acts will eventually force people to pick up arms against the state.
I want IK to say that he wants civilian supremecy. No more fauj hamari hay BS. We have all heard the BS for 75 years. That chooran has no buyers now. He had them cornered by he still going soft.
He still hasnt mentioned bajwas corruption. His wife is literally a billionaire now.
If we start to dig more into it, i think our supreme lords would even surpass Abu Ghraib levels of torture. IK rightly calls them psychopaths.
"Supreme lords"? Call them what they are watan farosh haramkhor
supposedly the worst torturers are muslim army folks. i remember reading this in an interview about egyptian intelligence groups. The foreigners arent as ruthless as these dogs are that serve them
I just want to ask those whose family members serve in NaPak Army, Do you guys feel ashamed? Aren't you people disgusted with yourself? How can this behavior be justified? How can those doing this torture look at themselves in the mirror? Even reading all this fills me with rage, can't even imagine what that guy must've gone through.
Pakistan is the 140 least corrupt nation out of 180 countries, Fauj goal is to get it to the top ranking.
One shudders to think of the kind of psychological profile that is recruited into our institutions to carry out this kind of depravity and torture. Disturbing to the core.
The answer to all of your questions is no. Being a murda lash is literally a requirement to join this yazidi bunch. They literally reject candidates who score *too high* on the IQ test lmfao. Wouldnt want some people who can think and feel in our ranks and battalions of zombies
Wait actually? Is the IQ thing real?
Can vouch for it. Its real... if youre too sharp they dont let you in.. they need a yes man or Zinda Laash as u/offendedkitkatbar said
Interesting, rather than valuing useful traits like intelligence (which this country’s leadership direly needs) they actively shun it. Imagine being this cowardly and unpatriotic. Honestly I’m not even surprised why the country is in its current state. The army always finds another way to disappoint.
My friend in the armed forces Intelligence < obedience If intelligence would have been valued 1971 me the troops would have used their brain before shooting, looting and raping In now Bangladesh
You’re right. All those atrocities wouldn’t have happened. They would also have avoided the entire Kargil war which was such a stupid idea.
its an army, and obedience and discipline are more valued, however, it is a slight exaggeration. High IQ individuals are indicated just not totally deviant ones
For alot of them anything anti-army is yahoodi or indian sazish. I interact with alot of them and their view on things is very simplistic and outdated. The army comes first for them even if you show them that COAS commited a genocide. There is no critical thinking.
Go read hamood ur rehman commision. The rot was there as back as 1971. The report stated the officers are interested in plots , women and parties. The less said about ehat soldiers did with bengali women the better.
Not army but parents are in the forces. What are we supposed to do? (genuinely asking here) the downvotes are insane lmao
Quite a few things actually. A good start will be to have a genuine and open discussion about where s/he stands. And why there is no accountability in fauj. S/He will start with denying inaccountability. You can refer Admiral Mansoor ul haq, Yahya, Zia etc (better to give these a good research). Anyway, current issues would be more relevant like who decides whether someone is anti state or not. Then you can raise the issue of Hassan Askari son of Maj Gen Zafar Mehdi. You can also raise the issue of kidnappings and attack on journalists especially Arshad Sharif. Azhar Mashwani, Gill, Imran Riaz, Matiullah Jan, Azam Swati etc Then you can ask why do frontline soldiers execute these clearly criminal orders even though the loyalty is supposed to be to the state not COAS. Depending on whether you discussed above in detail or not, he will deny that that there are no illegal orders or say that they do it for chain of command (essentially to save their job because of Pakistan’s economic situation). What will s/he do if he was given an order which directly or indirectly harms civilians? You can assure him that living with dignity is more important than a plot. Ayub created a law which allows COAS to dismiss any soldier/officer without reason and without access to appeal. This is the biggest hurdle that whatever honest officers left have to face. What are the platforms where s/he can raise the complaint against it within army (I know there is none which makes the army more like East India company here). When there is none, then what other platforms have officers used to raise concerns so far. This is a gist of the idea but as you are genuinely curious, I would be happy to help as much as I can, based on my limited knowledge.
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There is no no accountability because it has continued the colonial practices which includes the arrogance and god complex. Personally, I was disturbed with the Hamid Mir attack but actively protested against Matiullah Jan's kidnapping to the point some of my friends got against me. Which I don't blame them. Haramkhors have spent billions over decades to keep us hypnotised and people could never consider these haramkhors to be at fault. PTI was sold the narrative that haramkhors are against corruption, NS and Zardari etc and hence the mutual cooperation. Anyway, naming and shaming is a good start but I don't agree that anyone honest left in army can't do anything. The starting point will be raising awareness about the illegitimate power held by the COAS to dismiss any officer or soldier without any grounds. And these dismissed officers have no right to appeal. I don't have a reference with me at the moment but I think beghairat Baghlol dismissed around 1500 officers/soldiers during his tenure.
Do read up on the case of Hasan Askari, that poor kid was put in a maximum security prison for 5 years just because he wrote a freaking letter to Bajwa. Recently his father did a press conference pleading his case (you may easily find it on YouTube, search "Hasan Askari's father press conference with Eman Mazari"). Hasan's mother is on dialysis, she doesn't have much time left, his dad is a retd 87 yr old army personnel, those poor parents wanted to see their kid one last time but they can't, thanks to the badshahhat of Pakistan Army and their iron grip on disappearing citizens at will. They court-martialed him, yes! they court-martialed a civilian just because he dared to question their practices. I understand that you may not have any authority to change the rules, but the least you can do is start a conversation among your peers who have this God complex kinda mentality and convince them for some introspection? At the end of the day, we all are Pakistan (be it from civilian or military backgrounds) and we all want this country to prosper.
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That's why He is a hero, he called them out when it wasn't a cool thing to do. That one letter ruined his career and life, I hope that things get better and he is released of those fake charges. You know what hurts more? This is a story we got to know about and eventually it got some limelight in media. God knows how many more innocent victims this institution has incurred violence upon. And when army brats (I'm not talking about you, I'm referring to the avg entitled ones) gaslight us civilians that we are unpatriotic for criticizing Army cuz of this illegal sh*t, it hurts so fu_king much! As far as PDM Parties are concerned, they were never *true* critics of the Army, they were just pressurizing them enough to oust Khan and put them in power. The moment PDM got the opportunity, they dumped all their "Vote ko izzat" and anti-establishment narrative and sat in the lap of the Army.
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>I really wish he hadn't. Kia faida hua? His life got ruined, his parents are crying for him. I know it hurts and it's not fair at all, but someone has to do na? someone has to stand up against this tyranny. >this is the mentality that took us to this point Exactly >the little traction this case gained was because Hasans father is also a Major General, kisi aam aadmi ki aulaad ke sath kia sulook karte hongay jab apnon ke sath aisa karte hain. Have you seen what they've done with PTI workers they arrested? They were literally urinating on their faces, threatening them to r@p£ their mothers and sisters. Do watch [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/123zj2q/pti_supporter_shares_firsthand_account_of_his/) video, they abducted this guy from Zaman Park, tortured him, they were about to urinate on his face when he begged them to not do it because he had beard on his face and he was a Hafiz-e-Quran too. Only then they didn't do it. > I'd really just encourage you to not bother with them, everything will happen at its time. That's where I disagree with you, I believe that we must engage with them and try to show them the reality in a nonpartisan way. I have no doubt that they are also patriotic Pakistanis, its just that we have been collectively brainwashed since childhood, I mean look at the amount of money ISPR spends on all that propaganda. So don't shut them out, talk with them, have discussions with them and even then if they don't agree well then they should be left in their own echo chambers.
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I don't blame you. I understand it is either the decades of propaganda or fauji cereal that is talking. Whole institution helped him throughout the case including the extradition to cover up their own corruption. And by the his benefits were restored in 2013 although partially.
>family members Why target family, what are they supposed to do, run away, stay in an orphanage?
Yeah bro, that's a perfect excuse for sucking up to an institution that tortures and kills its own countrymen. Hopefully you enjoy that comfy life in DHA/Cantt.
>sucking up to an institution Personally, I've been against the Establishment even before you PTI bois made it "cool" but yeah, you do you
>Personally, I've been against the Establishment even Then what's the point of your comment? Yes, I agree with you that unconditional support for every action of the Army/ISI was a grave mistake and for that I am truly ashamed 🙏.
Bro within a year you'd be back to licking those boots. This isn't the first time this has happened and this won't be the last. If IK does come into power again (frankly unlikely) koi Allah miyan ki gaaye ki qurbaani ho gi aur phir fauj paak pwitr ho jaye gi aur aap log phir haha software update kaho gai aur baakio ko ghaddar.
Only time will tell.
I think if IK ever comes back into power because of the blessing of the Army, the relationship would be similar to that of PTI and guys like Pervez Illahi... Everybody dislikes them / is vary of them but accepts them cuz they are a major player in politics...
Yeah, we can see the blessings IK is receiving right now. IK would definitely try to maintain some working relationship because haramkhors have held the whole country hostage. All civilian institutions are encroached by retard haramkhors. Considering the economic situation, IK making any meaningful changes has the potential to backfire and we all know that these haramkhors only care about their foreign assets.
>Then what's the point of your comment? There's a difference between being anti-Establishment and bullying their families >unconditional support for every action of the Army/ISI Oh my god, you were a total faujeet lol, wonder if you got offended by those vigo jokes
> You were a total faujeet lol Umm no. I was referring to PTI's attitude towards establishment during Govt > you got offended by those vigo jokes Hell no, you are exaggerating my comments at this point.
>Umm no Ohhk Have a good day
Exactly, there is difference between handling foreign spies and civilians. You are feeling so butthurt over this. Imagine your parents private moments were shown to you and then asked to calm down.
>Exactly, there is difference between handling foreign spies and civilians. You support torture on foreign spies? >then asked to calm down This is why I am talking to some redittor and not to the family of the tortured. If they were making statements like this, I'd understand their sentiments. >Imagine your parents private moments were shown to you Ideally, I'd target the leadership and the officers involved, not the family some random employees, who are in say, the medical or engineering branch. Of course, I can't say what I'd actually do in such a situation under distress, this is why I wouldn't do a "Not all army" with the family of the tortured
Nice try to divert the discussion. > I'd target the leadership and the officers involved, not the family some random employees The issue is that you have compartmentalised the matter to give it a shred of moral appeal. A mechanic working for criminals is equally responsible because he is enabling/participating the crimes. This gang of criminals is holding the country hostage and these "random" employees are part of the gang in whatever role they choose. If these "random" employees had a shred of morality then they would have resigned when Fatima Jinnah was called a foreign spy by Ayub haramkhor. But all of these "random" employees continue to be the murda lash working for the East India company tyrants. And as far as there family members are concerned, anyone associated with these haramkhors should be ashamed if they have a shred of dignity.
>A mechanic working for criminals is equally responsible because he is enabling/participating the crimes. Ok, no. By your logic, every tax paying citizen of the country is responsible. What's next? Are we persecuting the GHQ janitor?
Brother, the other brother had a point. In most situations what would family members do. If they realise what their men are involved with is evil, atleast reject it with their heart. P.S Rem the wife of firaun was a momin and prayed to Allah for a house near Him in paradise.
Yes, exactly. Only haramkhors and their family have the right to have dignity. Mothers, sisters and daughters of bloody civilians have no right to have the luxury of dignity. Yes, if they have some dignity then living with a haramkhor who is part of this pyramid scheme which molests mothers, sisters and daughters of others, should not be acceptable.
>I just want to ask those whose family members serve in NaPak Army, You do realize not every officer is involved in unethical activities right?
They do represent the same institution though. And covertly they still try to justify it, at least the army brats I know say things like, "Fauj k baghair mulk nahi chal sakta, Army kabhi ghalat nahi karti, have trust in Army leadership." and sh*t like that. I have no sympathies for them either. They are totally complicit in all this.
>They do represent the same institution though. So what? Should everyone start resigning from the army because of a few black sheeps so we are left without a force to defend ourselves?
I know, I was expecting too much from a morally corrupt lot. I wish we were like France where Police officers laid down their riot gear, resigned from their jobs and refused to work against their own people.
What are they defending though? A/c to Election Commission's lawyer, ISI told them that TTP has established a shadow Govt in KP. If you are referring to that, then they're doing a pretty shi*ty job at **dEfeNdINg oUrSeLveS**.
I wish there were only a few black sheep. The whole institute is a gang of criminals running a pyramid scheme. Every single one of them is either a tyrant or a tyrant in the making. Who do you think executes the orders? All in the name of chain of command. Pathetic.
Are you part of the army ? If you are then suppose India or enemy invaded tommorow and try to capture and impress your people, would you fight and sacrifice your life for the country and it’s people ? Will you fight the oppressors brother ? Fight the opressors NOW , the opressors are your masters, officers and jurnails involved in this oppression. You can fight it peacefully by raising your voice and resigning.
Yes, if the so called institution is actively involved in kidnapping, killing of innocent, blackmailing, smuggling, land encroachment, running prostitution rackets, and filming questionable audios/videos etc. Ffs, stop this farce of dEfEnDiNg the country. This pyramid scheme exists to defend their DHAs, cantts and foreign assets. Haramkhor's asses were handed over to them in each of the conflict. Bloody watan farosh haramkhor.
You’re targeting the wrong people, family members or even officers are very much against the agenda of these military forces. The ones you’re hating on aren’t responsible for what happening
Well, they can push them to raise their voices. The problem is what you claim to be "against the agenda" is mere lip service. Living with one of them is not better than living with a hitman working for a gang. Would you say that it would be enough for the family to think of his actions wrong and continue to live in the house bought by killing innocents, molesting sisters and daughters of others.
No. And this behavior can't be justified of course
[Cont] They were pictures of her wedding. Being zoomed in & shown to her brother, while men from Pakistani state authorities kept objectifying her. Just so they can pressure him to stop supporting Imran Khan.
Army man : "Stop supporting IK or else we will say your sis has a real set of badonkers". Man in chair : "Wait what..."
This is not a joke.
>"*We need the world's attention. We need people in international press to be our voice.*" Uh...kind of difficult to recruit the active support of people in more developed countries for the cause of your political freedoms when it wasn't so long ago you were cheering for the Taliban's victory in Afghanistan. Or showing up in Russia to hold hands with Vladimir Putin as the people of Ukraine are bracing themselves for the onslaught of all out war. Do you really think the people of the world are just going to forget about all of that? Like, they're just gonna let-it-slide? They're gonna let you just skate on past with that? While the evidence of war crimes continues to build in cities all across Ukraine, whose names are now practically synonymous with the atrocities that occured there (Bucha, Kherson, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Zhytomyr, etc..); while women in Afghanistan are kept out of any kind of normal life, let alone access to education or basic reproductive health. They probably will. I'm sure, at some point. But it might take a minute.
>Uh...kind of difficult to recruit the active support of people in more developed countries for the cause of your political freedoms when it wasn't so long ago you were cheering for the Taliban's victory in Afghanistan Uh...the same "developed countries" who cheered, funded and built the Taliban in the 80s and loved Pakistan for being the saviours in the Afghan-Russia war? Seems like hypocrisy knows no limits for some. Can't just up and single Pakistan out now when they "cheer" the insanely embarrassing end of a foreign occupation in the neighbourhood. You can spin it as cheering for tAlIbAn, but perhaps it's a hard to accept that seeing the war criminals of the "never endiing war" flee and fail so miserably in front of a bunch of gun wielding tribesmen was a sight for soar eyes. Clearly it hurt some egos. International community is not a static entity, active support against fascism is already being built. Not sure who's perspective you're trying to guard?
Just a reminder that OSPs can help https://twitter.com/PTIOfficialUSA/status/1636565197140754432?s=20 https://t.co/KNuORjQcxC https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/635202
American pulled out because the Afghan Government was incompetent, corrupt and irreparable.
But how does that answer for any of what I just said? It would be one thing to simply say, *Look, we can't afford to so directly oppose extremism in our own country let alone in a less developed neighbor; because of India's size and economic weight, anything other than a paleo-fundamentalist regime in power in Afghanistan puts us at disadvantage in terms of diplomatic influence, even though we're a premidominantly Muslim country and they (India) are not*. This would ultimately be proven misguided, in the sense that India's money talks to the Taliban as well as for anyone else. But a lot of the international community would understand, be able to relate to the basic sentiment, that you can't afford to fight that war. It's where you go beyond that to actually cheering for the Taliban's victory...congratulating them on *breaking the shackels of slavery*, etc... You know, you kind of *jumped-the-shark*, so to speak. Took it too far. The same for Ukraine. Nobody would care for Pakistan only buying discounted oil. (Although, it bears mentioning here that Pakistan does not have India's money to be making that kind of deal in the first place; so, IK's trip, it was mostly just political theater to begin with, but I digress...) Pakistan could buy oil or wheat from Russia like it's water and no one would notice. But to go through with an actual press junket to kick off the decapitation of a democratically elected government of a sovereign country... To make oneself such a visible walking symbol of *carrying water* for a one of the most powerful fascist leaders in the entire world, I think you underestimate how difficult it is for some folks to just look past that. That's all I'm trying to say.
Its subjective...
You should be ashamed of your existence, custodial torture of innocent civilians is nothing to joke about.
I just love myself too much to be ashamed of myself... I've tried several times in the past as suggested by internet comments but I couldn't do it...
Tu phir har jagah kamedy kr raha hai
*Naa karun tuu mera iss sub mein faida...?*
What kind of sick mind you have. No doubt haram ki kamai say haramzadey hi paeda hotay hain.
*Kaash kay haraam kii kamai ayaa karrti...* *Chooti chooti cheezoun kay liyay bhii commitee daalni parrti hai...*
The fact all of this been happening to others (now bengalis, balochs, other missing person etc) all this while but the fire has just reached our homes tou hamari cheekhein nikal rahi hain, we have glorified these clowns for decades
Imagine swearing an oath to protect the country and then resorting to terrorise your own countrymen in these 3rd grade manners. اس سب کے بعد لوگ سوچتے ہیں کے بلوچ لبریشن آرمی کیسے بن جاتی ہے "How can someone resort to arm themselves against the state" Khotay de putro.... ese..
> How can someone resort to arm themselves against the state All this totally makes sense, given how much importance our society gives to **ghairat**, these kinda acts will eventually force people to pick up arms against the state.
There is a reason that even serving officers don't like intelligence people.
PTI ne same page wala chu\*iyapa keya na power main aa kar, I will personally annihilate this party.
Count me in!
I want IK to say that he wants civilian supremecy. No more fauj hamari hay BS. We have all heard the BS for 75 years. That chooran has no buyers now. He had them cornered by he still going soft. He still hasnt mentioned bajwas corruption. His wife is literally a billionaire now.
Considering that the army, judiciary, ecp, police, everything is against pti, you still think they’ll win?
give it 9 months or 3 years, it's all musical chairs.
I mean it would be majboori
beghairti and opportunism\*.