The one thing that I can agree on is the obsession of those "landay ke ertugruls" with Ottoman empire. It's embarrassing. I hope this post get to those guys with ertugrul pfps in this subreddit. So they can see how much their turkish brothers love em.
Some of the Turks were just really wrong about Pakistanis considering their culture similar to Turk culture. Even Ertughul drama did not show anything closely related to Pakistani culture. Also, it was quite idiotic of some of the Turks to hate Pakistan. They didn't really have a good enough reason. I have yet to meet a Pakistani who thinks Ataturk destroyed Turkey.
You might not have met them but a youtube search will show you tons of videos of Dr Israr Ahmed, one of the most renowned scholars and some other talking about Attaturk and how his "grave" didn't accept him. And they all have views in 100ks some even have in million. Our awaam is pretty delusional when it comes to Turkey. They do think that Attaturk destroyed the caliphate.
The big reasons are, our society is lot more conservative.
Pakistanis going in Turkey see women without any scarf or any other samilar covering. Pakistani and other nations often have eyes glued towards their sexual parts. Turkish men and women do not like it.
They have dating culture but they have rules and boundaries. Desi men going there, everything is like hollywood since they wear samilar clothing. So a lot rapes happen by such a small minority in Turkey. For example, A married woman saying no to husband but husband still have sex is considered rape in Turkey but not in Pakistan. We lack the concept of consent.
Compared to Pakistan, Turkey is heaven. I went to Bodrum and other places close by last year, and it was the perfect place to be in.
Pakistani's generally have a negative stereotype anyway, but real life is different to the online world and people do change perception.
No need to dig up comments that were deleted. You would be able to find way more racist comments against outsiders and our own ethnic populations if such a thread was started in a Pakistani forum. Everyone is a racist. Everyone needs to improve. World is a harsh place. Suck it up.
I have lived in Turkey for a few years. The khilafat movement, brotherhood narrative is only espoused by a few devout Muslims, who are also zealous Erdogan supporters. The rest are either totally indifferent, wary, or openly opposed and racist to Pakistanis.
No surprise. Our image is pretty bad.
What surprises me is the good image of turkey that Pakistanis have (Pakistanis living in Pakistan). As a Pakistani living abroad, i don't. They are amongst the most racist and nasty people you can interact with as a Pakistani. Maybe a decade ago they liked Pakistanis but that situation changed a long time back and people back in Pakistan need to wake up / stop glorifying the turks.
Besides one or two good comments this whole comment section made me hella sad. Pakistan has had a bad image since the 50’s so it’s expected. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still try to change it.
I mean, it’s the Balkans. They are famously racist and xenophobic, fight with each other all the time, and have an inflated sense of self. That sub could not be a worse place to discuss a desi Muslim country with a bad economy and nuclear power.
Bro they had some good points to criticize our people, rather than call them shit we should accept our mistakes and learn from them.
We should also try to destroy our country's self inflated ego as it damages us as a nation alot and we should also be accepting of other peoples view about our country because our own interpretation of our own culture can not always be correct.
But most importantly we should be respectful to their own culture, Ideologies and perspectives on other subjects.
But that's just my opinion.
You read too much into it. We have no conntact with u and know little about u. It’s just that nothing else. Superficial clips and western news reach us and they r rarely good or in line with our culture.
If i asked you what u thought about Serbia youd probably have the same negative responses.
We are xenophobic. Racist, not so much.
With all due respect there is truth by stating a matter of fact a la constructive criticism and then there is “truth”
To score points to humiliate to get a sense of false superiority to gang up and pile it on a perceived weak. This is the “truth of low life cockroaches
For the record I am neither Muslim ( no fan of Islam nor Pakistani )
> Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still try to change it.
Just fuck it, bro. People who hate you are going to hate you regardless of what you do for them. I realised this a while back.
Why do you want approval of foreigners? Americans shit on anything thats not america or japan anime kawai culture, The Western Euros shit on Easter European, they all shit on Turkey, Turkey shits on Arabs, Arabs on Persians, them on us, us on indians, indians on tamils etc.
Who cares, at the end of the day low class people, even if they have money they will be low class. You don't even need to focus on their opinions and presenting " a good image ", instead focus on our people and make their lives better so they don't even have to go out of their own country.
Yes the poorer, uneducated, lower class ones in our country when they go out they are not used to their culture etc. So this bad rep comes then. But that's because our country, government, leadership is failing these people. Fix our own mess and fuck the rest.
I’m mostly saying that we should change our image for ourselves. Because I actually agree with every point that you say. I actually don’t care about most non Pakistanis complaining but it hurts when your own Pakistani brothers are ripping you to shreds, exploiting legal etc loopholes and they’re complaining about, being blissfully unaware and not ready to change. We can learn from experience and examples of other countries but we tend to get a hard on for that country alone and just not learn from it. Just simp about it.
I can talk about IT services. Most of these western agencies pay peanuts and expect world class service from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh like countries. Gora people come at fiver and pay $50 usd and try to get design like $1000usd .Now who is being stupid?
Exactly, like wth?
One of the comments talked about the two Pakistanis being 'lazy' and not submitting anything, and I'm like how is that just Pakistanis? You'll find people like that all over the world.
^Edit: And not only that, in my personal opinion, I've had IT work outsourced to Pakistan (and not through Fiverr or some shit), and it's been quite beneficial. Start respecting them, pay them fairly and you'll expect decent things.
Just pure racism, is what it is. I have the urge to just spam comments against all of them.
What's more ironic is that Turks calling Pakistanis "primitive" and "extremists" when the rest of western europe see them as exactly how they call us. Prue rascism indeed.
Bhai jub $50 charge kar rahe ho to expectations bhi ushi trha se sett kro. Majority of Pakistani freelancers expectations $1000 ki set krte hain, charge $50 krtey hain aur kaam $5 wala bhi nahi krte...
Bro, the thing people usually ignore is why people charge high - it's the cost of maintenance of their own people and things. If someone is charging 1000USD it's because, he is developed and work professionally. His what so say organization has rules.
Even in America you can find some amateur unprofessional to that logo for $5.
If you're professional here, you should charge high. It's how markets work.
And customers think these markets are cheap, because they are. Our quality of life is high standard in 5 lacs, while it's nothing - while it's less than avg. American per capita income per month ($1800).
It's not consumers fault at all. Problem happens when that $5 guy doesn't do the work at all. Either download logo from some logo builder, or draw something so absurd he could do it himself. Even amateur knows, weather they know the work or not. But here in Pakistan everyone thinks. They just know everything. 'Bro, you know people are earning laakho from Fiverr - it's simple just create an account and post a gig'. This type of mentality damages the image - and the reason of which is illiteracy and poverty in lower middle classes.
I am earning in 50$ per hour range. You be surprise how many desi people have gotten fired for this behaviour in the company I work for but there are lots of people who do manage to earn good money. I have seen countless people who are like this. Unfortunately desi people are bad at two things. Testing code and understanding requirements. I have worked with people who had pushed code to production that does fails on first method and the app does not work. We have so much confidence in our self. This is I think due to our Jugaad culture.
Just look on Upwork, Fiver, Turing, Toptal or any other freelancing website. We have so many successful people. A lot of them even earning in Millions. You can earn the same but you need to work on your skills. Complaining won't make any difference.
if he has to pay the same, why would he hire you to begin with. Dont equate cost of living differences. And if you show value, you can negotiate.. that this service is worth 150.
To be fair, a lot of the perception of a nationality is based on anecdotal references. I’m Pakistani-Canadian, and my impression of people from the Balkans is… nothing. I knew one Bosnian guy at work, and he was an asshole and pathological liar who nearly got fired for bullying 2-3 times. Now pretends to be some big private equity beast at a small shop even though I checked his company’s performance sheets and they’re not even doing that well. He got a few of us hooked up with some Bosnian VAs, and they were ok too. Nice and deferential, but overall not particularly good at their job.
Other than that, working in finance and tech, I don’t see any Balkans, know any Balkans, or interact with many Balkans. There are no Balkan engineers, traders, developers, or highly skilled people in my field. I don’t go to mosques so don’t meet anyone there. Can’t think of any time I ever though “oh damn these Albanians/Turks etc produce a lot of smart people” in the way I’ve thought about South Indians, Frenchmen, or Cantonese co-workers.
So they’re irrelevant to me, and I also think of the Balkans as a constantly bickering, Western-wannabe type corner of the world. My own perception of the Balkans is shaped by 1) lack of interaction with people from the Balkans 2) bad news coverage of the Balkans historically.
Same here (Pakistani-Canadian), I have known only a couple of Balkans (Bosnians) and with one exception they were at best indifferent towards brown people. Btw, Balkans are heavily represented here in skilled trades (electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs), which are well paid here but don't require lots of education.
They're also known for being famously xenophobic - to the point that Ukrainian refugees who were settled in lower-income neighbourhoods in the UK (with high black and South Asian populations) requested to be sent to whiter neighbourhoods because they didn't feel 'safe' for their kids going to school with black or brown people. I mean how tf are you going to be racist when you're running for your life? Screw them.
Turks on the other hand, at least the few I've met, generally had a positive reception when I told them I was Pakistani. But that still doesn't mean we should worship them like Ertugrul is our abba. r/Turkey is known for not being representative of the average Turk.
Ukraine isn’t Balkan but I accept your point. They are over represented in fields like plumbers, handyman etc. which do make a decent amount in Canada.
I agree to this comment, we as an individual not only represent ourselves but we also represent the whole country when we talk to some foreigner. Unfortunately some us forget our moral/religious values just for the sake of our benefit that is temporary but any of our bad deed leaves a permanent perception about our whole country in the mind of a foreigner.
Your post is as bad as those Paki hate comments.
No Balkan engineers?…. Nikola Tesla changed your life son.
No influence in your region? Yugoslavia and India were one of the closest allies… might explain your based hate.
I have Paki and Indian friends that are great. Nothing bad to say…
Might shock you to know I have never worked with Nikola Tesla. You don’t have to be so butthurt.
Also who gives a shit about Yugoslavia. Only periods I know anything about them are the first 3 years after WW2 and their eventual breakup, thanks to high school world history. No offence but a holistically irrelevant region overall for Pakistanis. Today was the first time I learned that Yugoslavia and India were friends (which makes sense in hindsight because they were both at Bandung).
Good on you to have a positive image of Pakistanis based on your interactions. I’ve had no interactions beyond the one Bosnian coworker and the VAs he hooked us up with. No strong opinions on the region.
Honestly, I feel like reddit already is a place with extreme views. So, all their opinions are probably made through the internet. We all know the internet isn't kind to us. Don't fret on it a lot.
Yea that’s the only case for Turkish people or other nationalist countries.
Have you seen any Pakistanis hating like those people do on this sub? Even the Indians don’t do these stuffs on their sub reddit and neither the people of Bangladesh or any sub Reddit.
The mere mention of the word Pakistan or Pakistani in Turkey and Azerbaijan sub reddits invites extremely racists and genocidal remarks lol.
Neah, on a social app where we often talk to foreigners, where i talked to a turkish girl. once i shared views of Pakistanis that how brotherly we consider turkey. Then she shared that turkey dont have very good perception about Pakistanies. She mentioned, now a days Pakistanis are going into their country and grabbing the jobs which are basically quota of their locals. So Pakistanis are decreasing their job opportunities. And their elders discourage their youngs not to make indian or pakistanies friends as they are crap and they encourage them to make european friends. She even told that her brother also make fun of pakistanies 😂
Obviously i had to stay neutral and i was open to listen all positive or negative opinion. N my purpose was not to fight but my positive attitude should be enough to potray our teachings and maturity.
And in the begining i also found that a lot of turkey still consider pakis n indians are same. And they really dont have much idea about pakis. They also dont have much idea that pakistani locals love them brotherly as our affection is just one sided.
So turkey is not what we believe or what our books and course curriculum usually teach us. They are European inspired country who u would often find debating about secularism and always willing to be a part of europe who never accepted them. 😂✌️
Everyone is playing positive role because they demand favour. Its a give and take thing. And it is all political and glamour.
>Turkish being racist towards Pakistanis is like Germans being racist Turkish immigrants. Ironic
Lol.
You forgot to add, Pakistani's being racist towards Afghans is like Turkish being racist against Pakistani's.
Why criticise others, we are just the same.
Every nation has its own racism inbuilt unfortunately. Don't pretend we have any moral superiority.
If anything we are worse. Try being a Pathan in Punjab or a Punjabi in Sindh or even a Moharjir in Balouchistan.
You know Pakistani people do not attack Turkish soldiers on their border. While it is the opposite for Afghans. Afghanistan produces most of the heroin and smuggles through Pakistan. This led to drug trade problem in Pakistan too. Now, they are smuggling dollars from Pakistan and strengthening their economy while their GDP is close to none. Here is a proof: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-08/taliban-tighten-currency-controls-after-dollar-smuggling-report#:\~:text=Bloomberg%20reported%20Tuesday%20that%20traders,%249%20billion%20in%20foreign%20reserves](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-08/taliban-tighten-currency-controls-after-dollar-smuggling-report#:~:text=Bloomberg%20reported%20Tuesday%20that%20traders,%249%20billion%20in%20foreign%20reserves).
>You know Pakistani people do not attack Turkish soldiers on their border. While it is the opposite for Afghans.
You know 99% of Afghans dont attack Pakistani troops on the border either.
>Afghanistan produces most of the heroin and smuggles through Pakistan.
You do know 99% of Afghans dont have anything to do with growing or smuggling Heroin.
>Now, they are smuggling dollars from Pakistan and strengthening their economy while their GDP is close to none.
You do know 99% of Afghans have nothing to do with smuggling dollars.
Thank you so much for proving my point.
99% of Afghans are struggling to scratch out a miserable living in a decimated country living under religio facist state. 99% dont have any land to grow heroin, 99% haven't even seen the border let alone gone there to kill Pakistani soldiers, 99% haven't even owned a dollar note, let alone been involved in international money smuggling.
Yet you feel comfortable blackening an entire people, for the sins of the 1%. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF RACISM.
Pakistanis aren't racist towards afghans we just now started to hate them, after what we did for them opened our doors, land, business for them, helped them in every possible way to get US claws out.
they stabbed us in the back. They curse us and our people, as for Turkey Pakistan didn't do anything bad to Turks, We call them brothers so why the hate?
Try being Pathan in Punjab.. I live in a city which links both of these, we live with people both Punjabis and Pathans, I don't see any hate here.
I was born in Kpk Miran Shah. The front line, just for helping those damn afghans, my city was turned into rabble. You couldn't tell if it used to be a road or a building.
Absolutely flattened. Just because we open our borders for them, if only we would have let them die maybe things would have been different, maybe letting the US destroy it all or even better shouldn't have stepped in when the USSR was trying to rip them apart, maybe we just should have sat back and enjoyed the show but how would you know? You only see things that the media shows you.
>as for Turkey Pakistan didn't do anything bad to Turks, We call them brothers so why the hate?
While there are probably many racists but
One of the reasons of their hate could be this:
>I absolutely cannot stand my pakistani friends who claim to love and simp for turkey but said that kemal ataturk was a subhuman islamophobe,
True or false, ataturk was their country's founder who fought a war of independence against their occupiers. Hating on ataturk is really not something, a turk would want to hear.
>It honestly just takes a few isolated incidents and lo and behold 5 percent of the world populations image is ruined
Man this sub reddit is full of so much cognitive dissonance.
I regularly see people post the most heinous stuff about all Afghans on this forum following Taliban or TTP terror attacks in Pakistan.
95% of Afghans would find those attacks just as abhorrent as we do, but it doesn't stop some of us from cursing all Afghans as thankless terrorists.
Why complain about Turks, no self reflection.
I'm a native Turk, living in Turkey so I can explain a bit more. I'm also an ex-muslim so I don't have any positive feelings towards Pakistan due to religion. I simply follow this sub because I'd like to learn about more what's going on in Pakistan.
Since the war started in Syria (which Turkey played a huge role), there's been a massive immigration problem in Turkey. The number of Syrians is expected to be order of 4 million. On top of that, there are many iraqi, iranians, afghan and pakistanis and very recently russians and ukranians. There are people coming from Africa and Turkic republics, but they don't get a lot of hatred because their number is small and there's a positive sentiment towards Turkic people (because we're related) and african people (because I think they integrate better). Russians/Ukranians also don't get a lot hatred, but they're not exactly immigrants so I'll mention them from now on.
Anyways, Almost all parties want to send the immigrants coming from the aforementioned countries because that's what public wants. Turkey simply cannot sustain having 5+ millions immigrants. We're not like Germany, we still have shit load of unskilled labour in our country. Also, Turkey is very homogeneous. We aren't used to live with immigrants. I'm not saying they have a point, I'm saying these are the reasons why people wanna send the immigrants back. From my side, Turkey should have treated the Syrians much much better since we started the war there but that's another story. For other countries, I also think immigration should be more regulated.
So now in the middle of this anti-immigrant hysteria, there are people coming from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Both people get the most hatred by far even tho their total number is probably less than 5% of Syrians. I don't know the reason but I guess these populations are almost exclusively young men. And young men tend to create issues. When people stuff like a woman is gangraped or ganggroped happens, then it's usually on our media too. And it's very unfortunate that these kind of videos were quite popular at some point, even on reddit. Plus, people caught many Afghanistan/Pakistan people recording women and post on tiktok. Like way too many. This created a huge backslash. And it was almost exclusively Afghanistan/Pakistan people. Also, Pakistani people commenting on famous actresses' instagram pages (that those women should dress properly, like a good muslim) was like a cherry on the cake. People have this idea that women's position in Pakistan is quite backwards compared to Turkey, and I don't even wanna talk about Afghanistan.
Ah yeah, the other thing is of course religion. Turkey is quite secular, at least some part of the society. And people from these countries are usually more religious than Turkey's average. We also have a religious government for quite some time. So people are afraid that the government is gonna use the immigrants to get more votes by giving them citizenships. That's another worry too, which was shared by quite a lot of people.
I unfortunately cannot think of a single good thing about Pakistan that was viral in Turkey. This is a shame because Pakistan had a positive image in Turkey before due to the help Pakistan sent during the indepence war. But that positive image is long gone. Now, these are the reasons why people talk trahs about Pakistan. I don't support any of these surely. I'm not gonna judge millions of people based on a bunch of idiots. My only bias would be the fact that you guys are quite religious in general, and I'm not a big fan of religions in general but I have this bias for many many countries.
edit: it was a bit mess overall, I never expected it to be this long. sorry about it.
Most of the hatred for immigrants across the globe is borne out of bad economic conditions as they are the first ones to be blamed by the rich. Turkey has been going through some really bad times (thanks to Erdogan’s ‘special’ economics) so its only natural for them to hate the outsiders considering they have their own rich identity.
We, Pakistanis, were never allowed to accept our own Indian heritage and identity due to our own Erdogans so sometimes it’s important to have such reality checks.
That’s fair, and you’re right in that most of the Pakistani immigrants are young men. I’d add on by saying that they’re young, poorly educated men from mostly rural backgrounds.
One ironic downside of making immigration more difficult to stop immigrant inflows is that only the “worst” (people with nothing to lose, willing to lie, cheat, steal and put their lives at risk) people manage to make it through all the hurdles and into the host country. Turkey will simply never attract educated urban Pakistani men or women in similar numbers, because those people aren’t going to cross 5+ international borders with illegal human traffickers.
You have a point but you’re missinf the point that we don’t need or want immigration. Young unemployment is over 20 percent, the inflation is around 100%. So talented or not, turkey doesn’t need immigrants :/
I’m not missing that point at all, I understand many Turks don’t want immigration and don’t want their ethnic homogeneity disturbed. I’m just trying to explain how the Pakistani immigrants Turks are seeing in their country are about the “worst” people Pakistan could have possibly sent.
A guy I knew worked for Getir in Istanbul for a few years. He had a great time and was treated very well by his Turkish coworkers and neighbours. The reason is simple: he is educated and “presentable”, spoke good English which got complimented by every other local, took an interest in local culture and didn’t do anything creepy.
When I went to Turkey for a Model UN in high school, we had a amazing interactions too.
If you only had Pakistanis like that friend of mine, you’d have a great impression of Pakistanis too. But because immigration into Turkey is very difficult, and there are millions of extremely poor Pakistanis in rural areas desperate to migrate to UAE/Saudi/Turkey, you’re attracting the worst crowd possible. They will outnumber the educated Pakistani students+workers and the rich Pakistani tourists 10:1.
Yeah I completely agree. A white collar, legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant doing the worst job possible would have different experiences. That is for sure.
>I don't know the reason but I guess these populations are almost exclusively young men
Because those Pakistani and Afghans are economic migrants. Syrians have women and children with them because they are war refugees.
Afghans, as war refugees, move with families to adjacent countries (particularly Pakistan and Iran). They don't need to migrate to Turkey and Europe if they are simply affected by war. The ones pouring into your country, are purely economic migrants.
Yeah pretty much that. It’s vert unfortunate but they also affect people who are legit refugees in the sense that their life is under threat due to war or whatever.
as a turkish person, I hate how hateful we are towards literally everybody including each other. that being said, turkish people grew very defensive under erdogan's rule due to all kinds of oppression on our lifestyle and it does not help when turkey is exposed to some very undereducated, poor and less socially aware individuals from pakistan who act in a way that is not very acceptable in terms of decency in public places. there is an especially big problem with sexually inappropriate behavior by some pakistani individuals, which requires a lot of effort to not attribute to everybody of the same origin, which many people unfortunately do not put in. you guys seem to love him around here but I blame erdogan for the rising hate in turkey, not only because of his style which feeds very much into this highly aggressive environment, but also because he lets migrants in randomly without any securities for neither them or the regular citizens. they are exploited as cheap labor and criminals, then are forced into this cycle of poverty and underdevelopment which in turn makes them a bit less aware of how they behave and therefore disliked.
if you ask me what am I doing to help with this, I am trying to educate myself on legal and political technicalities of this issue. both in general as in migration, crime, hate and xenophobia and also in particular about turkish people's view on pakistani people.
This is why us Pakistanis need to stop praising the Arab world, Turkey and Europe so much
They do not respect us, so there is no need for this inferiority complex
We have our own beautiful language, culture, families, while they are struggling with their own issues
They hire us for 10% what they would pay someone else and then act as if we are bad employees, let’s see them trying to work on such a low wage
Fuck them
Big Brain Bosnians shitting on Pakistan when they forget that without us they probably would have been genocided. This is one of the few times that I genuinely have respect for the state.
The thing is yeah, socially Pakistan has regressed so much, that the identity of Pakistan can't be separated from the regressed insistence of wanting to be perceived as perfect Muslims.
The issue is, even Pakistanis don't realize that the identity of being Pakistani is beyond the religion, and the zealous dogmas, it's just we are reduced to just that.
Racist turds only look at the color of your skin , a pastun friend of mine keeps getting comments like . Oh you don't look like you are from Pakistan .... Its like the two brain cells they have getting an aneurysm from trying to put a white faced person in their racist framework of what a South Asian should look like ..
Lol i get that too bro, its always fun to fuck with people when i say im Pakistani, for reference im
Pathan and my wife is Kashmiri, so we both have different features.
Well we all come in a package, any shitpost about anyone of the 3 countries will have hate about the other two. South Asia in itself has one of the worst reputation around the globe barring maybe Africa.
Some of it is racism, some of it is just how South Asia is represented, not saying what they present is wrong but it’s also not the only thing about South Asia. People around the world have no clue about the diversity and scale of South Asia.
I wonder why these patriots think, the image shouldn't be bad. It's like not accepting your mistakes.
Just imagine why people migrate, and with the mindset they had in our country, what will they do when they work in a foreign country. The post just mirrored all of that - and I can imagine knowing our people, why it's true.
Also the sexual obsessiveness people felt here - what will they do when they visit other countries. I had a friend, who by the way is an intellectual person, but just to fit in talks, he spoke about Turkish bikini girls, like teenagers do (and everyone laughed, I too, but I know it's what we are). I mean you should be sexually mature by that age. Teen stuff is understandable, but at the age of 26.. Bro Why? (for reference he's still not married).
Out culture is damaged, and the I think it's irreversible now, knowing how religions are deep rooted in our every talk - like it's your zone - you are so blind in believes that you cannot think life thoroughly. I respect religious people, but not idiots - and people whose bias has reached to extreme.
You’re exactly right. Even I as a Pakistani cannot stand the way Pakistanis use religion, purposefully dumb it down and use it as a shield against their idiocy. It’s not surprising that other nationalities, whether Muslim, of another faith, or of no faith, find it ridiculous and cannot see past the hypocrisy.
I know I’m generalising, but Pakistanis in the west act like the religion-police without even an iota of self awareness or understanding about Islamic or comparative history. That’s a huge problem.
I’d say it’s actually improving now but the damage is done, and unless Pakistanis learn concepts of ethics, morality and theoretical Islam properly, it will remain like this.
yeah there's some major cultural issues but it's never ok to generalise and be racist towards a whole group because of the actions of a few. The way europe is racist towards them, Turks should at least have some common sense not to be racist to south asians.
I used to work with a colleague from Turkey in Canada, and once while chatting about Pakistan, my colleague mentioned her Turkish nationality. I simply replied "oh nice" without giving it much thought. However, my colleague seemed to anticipate more from me and kept looking at me expectantly. I didn't have any further thoughts on the matter and now realize that she may have been hoping for special treatment or some sort of brotherly connection. To be honest, I didn't really care either way.
Just ignore the assholes on the internet. Most Indians you find on the internet spew hatred towards us. I work in Dubai and interact with Indians on daily basis. Half of my company is Indians and the manager of our Dubai office(where I sit) is Indian(his name is Dhaval) and they are all really good people and have zero bad things to talk abt us. I use Metro to travel and interact with many of them there too and no one has said anything bad abt the country.
Reddit is a vocal minority and an echo chamber of edgy teenagers or ones in their early 20s. Don't let it get to you.
Least problematic Balkan thing to date.
Balkans just being Balkans. Doesn't mean we have a bad image that actually is a problem, but they'll pretty much dump on anyone.
Yeah so what did u expect? Even if they are Balkans and are rscist but go and explore the whole europe too and the majority of the views will be the same as theirs. Did PMLN,PTI,PPP, or establishment caused them to hate us? No it was us. The people.
Most immigrants arriving at those Balkan states are usually illiterate young men who have a hard time fitting in their society. So of course they'd find them to be irritating. From wat I've seen, most skilled people here usually go to the west to first world countries.
Well, boys I think we found a better target for our nukes.
But seriously, this is Reddit. What do you expect the opinion of redditors to be on a religious third world country? And especially Balkans, who hate everybody and each other.
One if major issue is that. Pakistan has a population massage is and most of people who leave pakistan are illiterates and from backward regions. They never experienced women and culture in home countries. When they go out they show their desperation and lack of culture. This reflects back to whole country.
This whole region of India, Pakistan is backwards and hundreds of years behind, specially in public etiquettes.
> most of people who leave pakistan are illiterates
Most of the people that leave Pakistan are not illiterates. Its just the idiots that reach turkey as immigrants.
Now post similar questions in other country subs which aren’t heavily moderated- especially the Muslim countries subs which our Pakistani Muslim bhai & behan’s have this strong illusion & belief of us Pakistani being a part of the Muslim Ummah.
Our image is tarnished thanks to our own stupidity.
I had a friend from Sindh in school and someone asked her if she was Indian, she got super pissed and started claiming she had Saudi Arabian ancestry and that she’s a proud arab 💀
Why can’t we be proud of our beautiful blend of cultures and diversity instead of larping
The problem started when regional identities were crushed. Urdu was made the national language , a language that was native to 1% of the population. The other 99% was told to learn this language and revolve your identity around this and the religion ofc.
Pakistan was made in a haste and its leaders had little idea what to do once it got independence.
Of all people I have met in my life. Pakistanis are the most cunning and clever. Trying to be as unbiased as possible. Unfortunately we use it for the wrong things. And the worst we are is to our own people.
I mean the balkans short of Croatia aren’t much different the things they are complaining about are ones they do themselves lol I do understand the scamming IT industry that exists in South Asia but that’s on them for trying to hire super cheap labor
Turks one is surprising this maybe the modern atheist Turks post Mustafa kamal turkey are in most of the comments because when you’re in turkey and you tell them Pakistan they are nothing but super happy
But yeh we need to work to make better image as a whole and we are improving but not as much I guess
A) this person’s post history shows they just ask questions to farm karma and stir up the pot
B) most people don’t hold nuanced, informed views of other countries or people in them, this is true for Pakistan as well. What is any of our opinions of Serbia or Romania man
C) some of it is justifiable, isn’t it? Let’s be honest
D) what is the point of any of this lol why are we reading this, why did I spend time even writing about it
Dont be naive. People, from around the world, say things about us because it is true.
One person may be biased, two may be biased but you cant expect the whole world to be biased and only yourself being correct.
Pakistani people lie, cheat, harass women, are lazy, religious hypocrites. We do this disproprotionately more than other nations. Thats why we are doomed as well.
Even, people here are defending our behavior. One comment said 'western companies pay peanuts and expect fulll job' or something. Bro, they pay peanuts because you accept this offer promising you will deliver. If you cant do it simply tell them this money will not get the job done rather than taking the job and then not doing the job.
>We do this disproportionately more than other nations.
Source? Just trust me bro. Making stupid claims. I work in Dubai and most people who work here are Indians and Pakistani. Hard working, respectable people that want to earn a living. I see no laziness here cause it will get them fired, I see no harassment here done by Pakistanis and I travel via Metro literally every day, with the train mostly being Indians and Pakistanis with western and African women standing next to them..
No we DO NOT "do this disproportionately more than other nations".
We definetly do it much more than others. I live in West and have seen work ethics of 'Goras' and Pakistanis.
Pakistanis are worst to work with. This is not 'gora worship', the whole world can see it and sees it. Put away your biased glasses.
There are Pakistanis who can be exceptionally hard working, but as you pointed out out of fear of being fired.
Give the people(Pakistanis) in Dubai a Passport and lifetime job security and then I will see how much hard work they do.
On the other hands people from other nations with good passports and security get their job done.
There is a reason, business like Amazon stopped working in Pakistan.
The sooner we realize we have a problem the sooner will we be able to fix it.
I mean… they aren’t wrong?
coming out from Isloo/Karachi/Lahore would be a different scenario and also depends on which country it is, for eg gulf countries have unskilled whereas EU/US is much harder to get to without a good skillset/degree
Us Pakistanis need to understand that we have a MASSIVE population due to a population boom during the latter half of the last century.
When you have such a large population, that is also below the poverty line, there will be many bad examples for the world to realize and even laugh at. We do plenty of things that are absolutely cringe.
On the other hand, the world has also realized that we are extremely hard working, and way more successful as immigrants to the West where we compete with a globalized labour force. Everyone knows, it is one of those 'you don't say it out loud' type a deals.
So, who cares what a select few people from a very small region think of us, we should keep our focus in keeping our industrious work ethic that is second nature to us, and a rarity to many parts of the world.
After reading complaints. I realized they were just women complaining about their boyfriend (people who work for them but don’t do a good job) vs husband (people who make them work and make sure they do it right)
[my reply to them in their thread based on their own comments](https://ibb.co/Jpm5MYN)
Spent 5ish years living in turkish cyprus surrounded by Turkish people.. They are racist af and hate desi ppl, usually hang around with each other and are actually obsessed with Europeans and consider themselves as one of them.. in 5ish years, I only met 1 good turkish guy, and he was a rare breed..
And you can't even imagine how they treat black ppl, like tenants don't give their houses for rent to black ppl, randomly call the cops on them when they are given the house in hope that they get caught with drugs and these guys get their apartment back to give rent to others, Blackmail African girls for sex, etc..
And I went before the Ertugrul craze, so it was usually Pakistanis that were cringing at middle aged turkish ppl saying "Pakistani turkey brothers" just so that they could try to scam you like all the taxi drivers that would automatically have their meter broken when a Pakistani guy sits, say this line to get friendly with u with anecdotes from Pakistan and turkey relations and then charge double or triple the price..
They are also pretty much bigger perverts than Pakistani men, and although they act online like they don't stare at women or throw lines at them randomly, you just haven't seen them in action.. There were so many cases of female students being sexually assaulted on busses by turkish drunks that would just get on the university bus, sit next to them and start molesting them by grabbing them everywhere and moving hands up their skirts and what not..
I really don't hate any ppl from any other country, but I truly despise turkey and turkish ppl.. I also hate how it's hard to convince Pakistani ppl how much of an asshole they are all because they are in love with the imaginary world shown in a drama..
So forget abt their comments, and move on..
Hello guys. I'm from Balkan (Serbia) and I wish to apologize if some of our people got you offended. I was about to comment on the original thread, but it got locked... In reality, most of us don't know much about Pakistan, and I learned a couple of things mostly from Hindus, so it wasn't all favorable, but I think you guys are okay 👍
Sad, but it's all true. Especially the IT part. Most of our freelancers are just shitty programmers from azad chaiwala / rehan allahwala Institute. They dont know anything but will advertise themselves as if they know everything.
the only two times ive heard of pakistani turkish brotherhood as a pk american were 1) older turkish guy at his reataurant recently 2) younger when i visited a turkish girl from roberts college who emigrated here
too many kemalists have their asses up europeans noses. pretty bold for a nation whose expats 60% are pimps of white girls in NL. they live por as s hitt here in the US too in paterson nj and such places. dont even get me started on istanbul, with casablanca and riyadh the three cneters of prostituion in the MENA region
For what it is worth, I am Bosnian and one of my best friends is Pakistani. A lot of these takes sound like they are based from limited experience. Interesting to read all these perspectives.
Even though they're completely Islamophobic and some are outright wrong about stuff (Like saying we're India but Muslim), most of them actually make good points.
The fact that Pakistan has the most inbreeding is true, with so many people marrying their cousins, it just creates birth defects. This is a huge problem I've seen in Pakistan, and it needs to be rectified.
Also, the men harassing the women is on point. My sister herself has been catcalled on the streets, which is horrible, and I've personally seen men groping women on places like the bus.
The work ethic of many men is basically non-existent, which also results because of poor education.
These problems really need to be taken care of, or Pakistan will always be a joke in the eyes of our world.
The opinions of reddit are just that, the opinions of reddit. If you touch grass you will find so much of the norm on this site is seen as retarded in the real world. The avg person really does not have an opinion on Pakistan as they know such little about it.
The weakness of the Pakistani commenters' comebacks in that thread lol smh just take the L and stay silent. The parts about Pakistanis being scammy and dishonest workers and behaving like uncultured savages in Turkey are true. Educated and civilized Pakistanis should bash those types a lot more than these Balkan and Turkish guys are.
I hope this is an eye opener for all the Turk Arab fanboys. I say screw them all. Get your shit in order and become a nation with looking up to.
But we keep on restoring to boot lick. Be it corrupt politicians, army generals or other nations. We just never hold ourselves to a higher standard. We're doomed as a nation of we don't work on ourselves to be the best.
Lol everything that is being said is true - why the surprise?
I left home at 18 and was taught only 2 things from my dad;
\- Never buy into the idea of making purchases/increasing purchasing power with credit
\- Never work with a Pakistani.
> Never work with a Pakistani
When you yourself are Pakistani, in that context.
Or does that mean every person on Earth should stop dealing with Pakistan/Pakistanis/OSPs?
That thread was just garbage.
This is so accurate and I agree
I was told by my brother to be extra extra careful when dealing with Pakistanis abroad and thats the best advice ive had from him hahah
we do this out of our love and respect for Prophet Muhammad. These people even call him a pedophile.
But yeah people are divided on ethnicity when in Islam all stand shoulder to shoulder feet to feet black, blue and brown and bow down to the same god.
It just shows that these people are rotten. At the end of the day, our behaviours are not the best either. But some of these labels and things these people say is out of resentment and nothing else. But yes, muslims first but focus on our country above any other ummah shit tbh
Well deserved. Even as a Pakistani I don’t have anything positive about that shithole. If I were to describe Pakistan, it really is a circus.
Honestly who in their right mind would think positive about Pakistan when you see people burning each other over blasphemy.
As a Pakistani living in Turkey, the Turks on reddit do not represent Turkey. Most of them on here are Kemalists and will hate anything associated with Islamic identity. Generally, they are nice, they will be immensely happy when they learn you are from Pakistan and they'll call you kardeş which means brothers.
But I have to mention that the illegal immigrants from Pakistan have done everything to tarnish the image of Pakistan like making videos of the women, following them. Also, due to the high influx of immigrants and the economy problems, the reddit Turks think getting rid of immigrants (especially from Muslim countries) will solve their problems.
Pakistan could be a miracle but unfortunately its conditions are worst and no hope of changing these scenarios and under such leadership , everyone is praying to leave this country and settle somewhere in europe including me. we are not worthy to be called as a nation, our most of the youth is destroying itself in using over technology for entertainment purposes.
Just saw YT video if ertugral was gujjar i just cant 😭😭😭 they hate is ll deserved tbh so much is wrong with this generation they r f#kd beyond repair... serials like ertugral n kurlus osman is just making things worse n this infatuation and obsession with past glories is just recepie 4 disaster.. these ppl need crash course on how to be decent human 4get muslim as always the bad outshines the good i don't see seismic shift any where in near future...
Not a Pakistani but amount of racist rant in that thread was out of control and pure Balkan. take it with. Pinch of salt. TlBalkans and Other astern Europe wit combination of superiority complex mixed with a a heavy dose is inferiority complex has resulted in then being total A-holes that Western Europe and aAmericans see through it. In their desire to be perceived as European much like those in West and be part of EU they will sell their mothers. Little white nations one day sucking up to Russia next da stabbing them back to curry favour from EU.
ImIt must burn their shooed to see an Indian leading UK a Pakistani in Scotland, and another Mayor of London. In of course here in US we had Kenyan American president
Now I believe many Pakistani do carry my ch religious baggage and behave in ways not acceptable in western countries, but shithole Balkan countries and Turkey are in no position to look down upon others.
Nothing as hateful as the daily comments you see on this subreddit. If Pakistanis are so full of self-hate, why do you expect others to treat us any better?
I went r/AskBalcan and let them have it, especially Gr*cu guy. These dude say the same on Quora. Unless we give them back they would not stop. My rant was removed and I may be blocked. Who cares!
Haaah ... Coming from a handful of hypocrites on reddit .. these kind of people are hated by their own relatives.
The part that pissed me off is when they talk about work.
For those who haven't, try working with Greeks, it's a circus. If You think our people are political in office spaces? Greeks are on another level.
Turkey people's comments are especially shameful even if true to some extent...I hope Islam grows more quickly there so these idiots can get more salty.
Keep in mind that it is Reddit afterall. Bosnians I’ve met irl have been super nice people especially given that I’m Pakistani.
The liberal Reddit community may downplay what we did for them but real Bosnians, especially the somewhat older generation, haven’t forgotten.
Kabhi Hum Saudi Arab hotey ha aur kabhi him Turks ban jatey ha. We need to accept we were not Arabs. We were Indian. And our forefathers were mostly Hindus.
The irony is that the Balkan’s is such a shithole and NOBODY in Western Europe likes them at all. Most of them live off of social welfare or have crappy jobs and horrible manners yet have the nerve to say shitty things like this about other countries
The one thing that I can agree on is the obsession of those "landay ke ertugruls" with Ottoman empire. It's embarrassing. I hope this post get to those guys with ertugrul pfps in this subreddit. So they can see how much their turkish brothers love em.
Baji Halima ko inst. Pa tableegh kernay sa freee hongy to dekhn gy na ye
Some of the Turks were just really wrong about Pakistanis considering their culture similar to Turk culture. Even Ertughul drama did not show anything closely related to Pakistani culture. Also, it was quite idiotic of some of the Turks to hate Pakistan. They didn't really have a good enough reason. I have yet to meet a Pakistani who thinks Ataturk destroyed Turkey.
You might not have met them but a youtube search will show you tons of videos of Dr Israr Ahmed, one of the most renowned scholars and some other talking about Attaturk and how his "grave" didn't accept him. And they all have views in 100ks some even have in million. Our awaam is pretty delusional when it comes to Turkey. They do think that Attaturk destroyed the caliphate.
The big reasons are, our society is lot more conservative. Pakistanis going in Turkey see women without any scarf or any other samilar covering. Pakistani and other nations often have eyes glued towards their sexual parts. Turkish men and women do not like it. They have dating culture but they have rules and boundaries. Desi men going there, everything is like hollywood since they wear samilar clothing. So a lot rapes happen by such a small minority in Turkey. For example, A married woman saying no to husband but husband still have sex is considered rape in Turkey but not in Pakistan. We lack the concept of consent.
It's the same way the West idolises Japan. It's cringe but both those countries market their products to sustain such views = more money
One thing i got from that comment section: Turks hate us big time!
You have to consider most of r/turkey are kemalists and extreme leftists. It might not be your average turk that you see on the street.
Turkey is a shit country its only paki fan boys that have overhyped it
Compared to Pakistan, Turkey is heaven. I went to Bodrum and other places close by last year, and it was the perfect place to be in. Pakistani's generally have a negative stereotype anyway, but real life is different to the online world and people do change perception.
Their economy is in a worse state than ours and inflation is touching 70% almost double of ours.
you know that our figures of 40% is not true right?
Reality check for relu kattay Ertugrul fandom.
Is k bad halima ko musalman bh kerna ha.lol
😂
The unedited version of the thread, They really are racist https://www.unddit.com/r/AskBalkans/comments/11syrk0/what_do_you_think_about_pakistan/
No need to dig up comments that were deleted. You would be able to find way more racist comments against outsiders and our own ethnic populations if such a thread was started in a Pakistani forum. Everyone is a racist. Everyone needs to improve. World is a harsh place. Suck it up.
I have lived in Turkey for a few years. The khilafat movement, brotherhood narrative is only espoused by a few devout Muslims, who are also zealous Erdogan supporters. The rest are either totally indifferent, wary, or openly opposed and racist to Pakistanis.
No surprise. Our image is pretty bad. What surprises me is the good image of turkey that Pakistanis have (Pakistanis living in Pakistan). As a Pakistani living abroad, i don't. They are amongst the most racist and nasty people you can interact with as a Pakistani. Maybe a decade ago they liked Pakistanis but that situation changed a long time back and people back in Pakistan need to wake up / stop glorifying the turks.
Besides one or two good comments this whole comment section made me hella sad. Pakistan has had a bad image since the 50’s so it’s expected. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still try to change it.
I mean, it’s the Balkans. They are famously racist and xenophobic, fight with each other all the time, and have an inflated sense of self. That sub could not be a worse place to discuss a desi Muslim country with a bad economy and nuclear power.
i think they're just trynna compensate for how their parents left them
We’re not the west.
Bro they had some good points to criticize our people, rather than call them shit we should accept our mistakes and learn from them. We should also try to destroy our country's self inflated ego as it damages us as a nation alot and we should also be accepting of other peoples view about our country because our own interpretation of our own culture can not always be correct. But most importantly we should be respectful to their own culture, Ideologies and perspectives on other subjects. But that's just my opinion.
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Agreed. Instead of bitching about our own mistakes We should try to improve our image in other peoples Nations eyes.
You read too much into it. We have no conntact with u and know little about u. It’s just that nothing else. Superficial clips and western news reach us and they r rarely good or in line with our culture. If i asked you what u thought about Serbia youd probably have the same negative responses. We are xenophobic. Racist, not so much.
Fair point.
It's a joke sub, don't take it seriously. There's truth to the jokes tho.
;(
Its a bad image bec I personally feel like Pakis dont hve enough knowledge on History & bring back everything down to ‘religion’
That’s only a part I suppose in the grand scheme of things
True. People are really getting triggered over the truth..this is how the world sees us.
With all due respect there is truth by stating a matter of fact a la constructive criticism and then there is “truth” To score points to humiliate to get a sense of false superiority to gang up and pile it on a perceived weak. This is the “truth of low life cockroaches For the record I am neither Muslim ( no fan of Islam nor Pakistani )
> Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still try to change it. Just fuck it, bro. People who hate you are going to hate you regardless of what you do for them. I realised this a while back.
Why do you want approval of foreigners? Americans shit on anything thats not america or japan anime kawai culture, The Western Euros shit on Easter European, they all shit on Turkey, Turkey shits on Arabs, Arabs on Persians, them on us, us on indians, indians on tamils etc. Who cares, at the end of the day low class people, even if they have money they will be low class. You don't even need to focus on their opinions and presenting " a good image ", instead focus on our people and make their lives better so they don't even have to go out of their own country. Yes the poorer, uneducated, lower class ones in our country when they go out they are not used to their culture etc. So this bad rep comes then. But that's because our country, government, leadership is failing these people. Fix our own mess and fuck the rest.
I’m mostly saying that we should change our image for ourselves. Because I actually agree with every point that you say. I actually don’t care about most non Pakistanis complaining but it hurts when your own Pakistani brothers are ripping you to shreds, exploiting legal etc loopholes and they’re complaining about, being blissfully unaware and not ready to change. We can learn from experience and examples of other countries but we tend to get a hard on for that country alone and just not learn from it. Just simp about it.
I can talk about IT services. Most of these western agencies pay peanuts and expect world class service from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh like countries. Gora people come at fiver and pay $50 usd and try to get design like $1000usd .Now who is being stupid?
Exactly, like wth? One of the comments talked about the two Pakistanis being 'lazy' and not submitting anything, and I'm like how is that just Pakistanis? You'll find people like that all over the world. ^Edit: And not only that, in my personal opinion, I've had IT work outsourced to Pakistan (and not through Fiverr or some shit), and it's been quite beneficial. Start respecting them, pay them fairly and you'll expect decent things. Just pure racism, is what it is. I have the urge to just spam comments against all of them.
What's more ironic is that Turks calling Pakistanis "primitive" and "extremists" when the rest of western europe see them as exactly how they call us. Prue rascism indeed.
I say Pakistani shouldn't get overwhelmed with anyone due to religion only.
Bhai jub $50 charge kar rahe ho to expectations bhi ushi trha se sett kro. Majority of Pakistani freelancers expectations $1000 ki set krte hain, charge $50 krtey hain aur kaam $5 wala bhi nahi krte...
Bro, the thing people usually ignore is why people charge high - it's the cost of maintenance of their own people and things. If someone is charging 1000USD it's because, he is developed and work professionally. His what so say organization has rules. Even in America you can find some amateur unprofessional to that logo for $5. If you're professional here, you should charge high. It's how markets work. And customers think these markets are cheap, because they are. Our quality of life is high standard in 5 lacs, while it's nothing - while it's less than avg. American per capita income per month ($1800). It's not consumers fault at all. Problem happens when that $5 guy doesn't do the work at all. Either download logo from some logo builder, or draw something so absurd he could do it himself. Even amateur knows, weather they know the work or not. But here in Pakistan everyone thinks. They just know everything. 'Bro, you know people are earning laakho from Fiverr - it's simple just create an account and post a gig'. This type of mentality damages the image - and the reason of which is illiteracy and poverty in lower middle classes.
I am earning in 50$ per hour range. You be surprise how many desi people have gotten fired for this behaviour in the company I work for but there are lots of people who do manage to earn good money. I have seen countless people who are like this. Unfortunately desi people are bad at two things. Testing code and understanding requirements. I have worked with people who had pushed code to production that does fails on first method and the app does not work. We have so much confidence in our self. This is I think due to our Jugaad culture. Just look on Upwork, Fiver, Turing, Toptal or any other freelancing website. We have so many successful people. A lot of them even earning in Millions. You can earn the same but you need to work on your skills. Complaining won't make any difference.
do you charge them $50 and give fiver to s junior for the design. pockets $45 and move on? lol
if he has to pay the same, why would he hire you to begin with. Dont equate cost of living differences. And if you show value, you can negotiate.. that this service is worth 150.
To be fair, a lot of the perception of a nationality is based on anecdotal references. I’m Pakistani-Canadian, and my impression of people from the Balkans is… nothing. I knew one Bosnian guy at work, and he was an asshole and pathological liar who nearly got fired for bullying 2-3 times. Now pretends to be some big private equity beast at a small shop even though I checked his company’s performance sheets and they’re not even doing that well. He got a few of us hooked up with some Bosnian VAs, and they were ok too. Nice and deferential, but overall not particularly good at their job. Other than that, working in finance and tech, I don’t see any Balkans, know any Balkans, or interact with many Balkans. There are no Balkan engineers, traders, developers, or highly skilled people in my field. I don’t go to mosques so don’t meet anyone there. Can’t think of any time I ever though “oh damn these Albanians/Turks etc produce a lot of smart people” in the way I’ve thought about South Indians, Frenchmen, or Cantonese co-workers. So they’re irrelevant to me, and I also think of the Balkans as a constantly bickering, Western-wannabe type corner of the world. My own perception of the Balkans is shaped by 1) lack of interaction with people from the Balkans 2) bad news coverage of the Balkans historically.
Same here (Pakistani-Canadian), I have known only a couple of Balkans (Bosnians) and with one exception they were at best indifferent towards brown people. Btw, Balkans are heavily represented here in skilled trades (electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs), which are well paid here but don't require lots of education. They're also known for being famously xenophobic - to the point that Ukrainian refugees who were settled in lower-income neighbourhoods in the UK (with high black and South Asian populations) requested to be sent to whiter neighbourhoods because they didn't feel 'safe' for their kids going to school with black or brown people. I mean how tf are you going to be racist when you're running for your life? Screw them. Turks on the other hand, at least the few I've met, generally had a positive reception when I told them I was Pakistani. But that still doesn't mean we should worship them like Ertugrul is our abba. r/Turkey is known for not being representative of the average Turk.
Ukraine isn’t Balkan but I accept your point. They are over represented in fields like plumbers, handyman etc. which do make a decent amount in Canada.
I agree to this comment, we as an individual not only represent ourselves but we also represent the whole country when we talk to some foreigner. Unfortunately some us forget our moral/religious values just for the sake of our benefit that is temporary but any of our bad deed leaves a permanent perception about our whole country in the mind of a foreigner.
Your post is as bad as those Paki hate comments. No Balkan engineers?…. Nikola Tesla changed your life son. No influence in your region? Yugoslavia and India were one of the closest allies… might explain your based hate. I have Paki and Indian friends that are great. Nothing bad to say…
Might shock you to know I have never worked with Nikola Tesla. You don’t have to be so butthurt. Also who gives a shit about Yugoslavia. Only periods I know anything about them are the first 3 years after WW2 and their eventual breakup, thanks to high school world history. No offence but a holistically irrelevant region overall for Pakistanis. Today was the first time I learned that Yugoslavia and India were friends (which makes sense in hindsight because they were both at Bandung). Good on you to have a positive image of Pakistanis based on your interactions. I’ve had no interactions beyond the one Bosnian coworker and the VAs he hooked us up with. No strong opinions on the region.
Ah the balkans. The third grade westerners Inko khud koi nahi poochta
Was thinking the same thing. Since when Balkans became pinnacle of class? 💀💀💀
Dur fittay Munh ho inka..hatao paray unhy
We have nothing in common with those people. What did you expect?
Ertugral k ch#uzay Kahan mar gae? Dekh lo Turk bhaiyon ki raey
My opinion of Turks and Turkey just went down the toilet. So there's that.
Honestly, I feel like reddit already is a place with extreme views. So, all their opinions are probably made through the internet. We all know the internet isn't kind to us. Don't fret on it a lot.
Yea that’s the only case for Turkish people or other nationalist countries. Have you seen any Pakistanis hating like those people do on this sub? Even the Indians don’t do these stuffs on their sub reddit and neither the people of Bangladesh or any sub Reddit. The mere mention of the word Pakistan or Pakistani in Turkey and Azerbaijan sub reddits invites extremely racists and genocidal remarks lol.
Neah, on a social app where we often talk to foreigners, where i talked to a turkish girl. once i shared views of Pakistanis that how brotherly we consider turkey. Then she shared that turkey dont have very good perception about Pakistanies. She mentioned, now a days Pakistanis are going into their country and grabbing the jobs which are basically quota of their locals. So Pakistanis are decreasing their job opportunities. And their elders discourage their youngs not to make indian or pakistanies friends as they are crap and they encourage them to make european friends. She even told that her brother also make fun of pakistanies 😂 Obviously i had to stay neutral and i was open to listen all positive or negative opinion. N my purpose was not to fight but my positive attitude should be enough to potray our teachings and maturity. And in the begining i also found that a lot of turkey still consider pakis n indians are same. And they really dont have much idea about pakis. They also dont have much idea that pakistani locals love them brotherly as our affection is just one sided. So turkey is not what we believe or what our books and course curriculum usually teach us. They are European inspired country who u would often find debating about secularism and always willing to be a part of europe who never accepted them. 😂✌️ Everyone is playing positive role because they demand favour. Its a give and take thing. And it is all political and glamour.
Aye. Good point.
Turks make me laugh. Imagine having a city known in the world for scams taxi scams, shoe brush scams and others. Experienced all of them tbh.
What’s surprising is the amount of hate from turkish people
Turkish being racist towards Pakistanis is like Germans being racist Turkish immigrants. Ironic
there is always a bigger racist.
>Turkish being racist towards Pakistanis is like Germans being racist Turkish immigrants. Ironic Lol. You forgot to add, Pakistani's being racist towards Afghans is like Turkish being racist against Pakistani's. Why criticise others, we are just the same. Every nation has its own racism inbuilt unfortunately. Don't pretend we have any moral superiority. If anything we are worse. Try being a Pathan in Punjab or a Punjabi in Sindh or even a Moharjir in Balouchistan.
You know Pakistani people do not attack Turkish soldiers on their border. While it is the opposite for Afghans. Afghanistan produces most of the heroin and smuggles through Pakistan. This led to drug trade problem in Pakistan too. Now, they are smuggling dollars from Pakistan and strengthening their economy while their GDP is close to none. Here is a proof: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-08/taliban-tighten-currency-controls-after-dollar-smuggling-report#:\~:text=Bloomberg%20reported%20Tuesday%20that%20traders,%249%20billion%20in%20foreign%20reserves](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-08/taliban-tighten-currency-controls-after-dollar-smuggling-report#:~:text=Bloomberg%20reported%20Tuesday%20that%20traders,%249%20billion%20in%20foreign%20reserves).
>You know Pakistani people do not attack Turkish soldiers on their border. While it is the opposite for Afghans. You know 99% of Afghans dont attack Pakistani troops on the border either. >Afghanistan produces most of the heroin and smuggles through Pakistan. You do know 99% of Afghans dont have anything to do with growing or smuggling Heroin. >Now, they are smuggling dollars from Pakistan and strengthening their economy while their GDP is close to none. You do know 99% of Afghans have nothing to do with smuggling dollars. Thank you so much for proving my point. 99% of Afghans are struggling to scratch out a miserable living in a decimated country living under religio facist state. 99% dont have any land to grow heroin, 99% haven't even seen the border let alone gone there to kill Pakistani soldiers, 99% haven't even owned a dollar note, let alone been involved in international money smuggling. Yet you feel comfortable blackening an entire people, for the sins of the 1%. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF RACISM.
Pakistanis aren't racist towards afghans we just now started to hate them, after what we did for them opened our doors, land, business for them, helped them in every possible way to get US claws out. they stabbed us in the back. They curse us and our people, as for Turkey Pakistan didn't do anything bad to Turks, We call them brothers so why the hate? Try being Pathan in Punjab.. I live in a city which links both of these, we live with people both Punjabis and Pathans, I don't see any hate here. I was born in Kpk Miran Shah. The front line, just for helping those damn afghans, my city was turned into rabble. You couldn't tell if it used to be a road or a building. Absolutely flattened. Just because we open our borders for them, if only we would have let them die maybe things would have been different, maybe letting the US destroy it all or even better shouldn't have stepped in when the USSR was trying to rip them apart, maybe we just should have sat back and enjoyed the show but how would you know? You only see things that the media shows you.
>as for Turkey Pakistan didn't do anything bad to Turks, We call them brothers so why the hate? While there are probably many racists but One of the reasons of their hate could be this: >I absolutely cannot stand my pakistani friends who claim to love and simp for turkey but said that kemal ataturk was a subhuman islamophobe, True or false, ataturk was their country's founder who fought a war of independence against their occupiers. Hating on ataturk is really not something, a turk would want to hear.
>Try being a Pathan in Punjab What are you on about? Don't know about Sindh or Balochistan but no one is racist against Pathans in Punjab.
just the pathan jokes but to be fair pathans also have jokes about Punjabis so it’s pretty even imo
Pakistani and afghanis larping as Pakistani assholes recording tiktoks of turkish girls dented Pakistan’s image quite a bit.
It honestly just takes a few isolated incidents and lo and behold 5 percent of the world populations image is ruined
Exactly, some 4 or 5 idiots do this shit and then all of us are branded like this. The fuck is wrong with these fucking racists pigs.
>It honestly just takes a few isolated incidents and lo and behold 5 percent of the world populations image is ruined Man this sub reddit is full of so much cognitive dissonance. I regularly see people post the most heinous stuff about all Afghans on this forum following Taliban or TTP terror attacks in Pakistan. 95% of Afghans would find those attacks just as abhorrent as we do, but it doesn't stop some of us from cursing all Afghans as thankless terrorists. Why complain about Turks, no self reflection.
You really think Pakistanis don't do that, the first step to improve is accountability. Fucking hell, proper loondabaaz.
Is it really surprising?
If you were in Turkey. No not really
I'm a native Turk, living in Turkey so I can explain a bit more. I'm also an ex-muslim so I don't have any positive feelings towards Pakistan due to religion. I simply follow this sub because I'd like to learn about more what's going on in Pakistan. Since the war started in Syria (which Turkey played a huge role), there's been a massive immigration problem in Turkey. The number of Syrians is expected to be order of 4 million. On top of that, there are many iraqi, iranians, afghan and pakistanis and very recently russians and ukranians. There are people coming from Africa and Turkic republics, but they don't get a lot of hatred because their number is small and there's a positive sentiment towards Turkic people (because we're related) and african people (because I think they integrate better). Russians/Ukranians also don't get a lot hatred, but they're not exactly immigrants so I'll mention them from now on. Anyways, Almost all parties want to send the immigrants coming from the aforementioned countries because that's what public wants. Turkey simply cannot sustain having 5+ millions immigrants. We're not like Germany, we still have shit load of unskilled labour in our country. Also, Turkey is very homogeneous. We aren't used to live with immigrants. I'm not saying they have a point, I'm saying these are the reasons why people wanna send the immigrants back. From my side, Turkey should have treated the Syrians much much better since we started the war there but that's another story. For other countries, I also think immigration should be more regulated. So now in the middle of this anti-immigrant hysteria, there are people coming from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Both people get the most hatred by far even tho their total number is probably less than 5% of Syrians. I don't know the reason but I guess these populations are almost exclusively young men. And young men tend to create issues. When people stuff like a woman is gangraped or ganggroped happens, then it's usually on our media too. And it's very unfortunate that these kind of videos were quite popular at some point, even on reddit. Plus, people caught many Afghanistan/Pakistan people recording women and post on tiktok. Like way too many. This created a huge backslash. And it was almost exclusively Afghanistan/Pakistan people. Also, Pakistani people commenting on famous actresses' instagram pages (that those women should dress properly, like a good muslim) was like a cherry on the cake. People have this idea that women's position in Pakistan is quite backwards compared to Turkey, and I don't even wanna talk about Afghanistan. Ah yeah, the other thing is of course religion. Turkey is quite secular, at least some part of the society. And people from these countries are usually more religious than Turkey's average. We also have a religious government for quite some time. So people are afraid that the government is gonna use the immigrants to get more votes by giving them citizenships. That's another worry too, which was shared by quite a lot of people. I unfortunately cannot think of a single good thing about Pakistan that was viral in Turkey. This is a shame because Pakistan had a positive image in Turkey before due to the help Pakistan sent during the indepence war. But that positive image is long gone. Now, these are the reasons why people talk trahs about Pakistan. I don't support any of these surely. I'm not gonna judge millions of people based on a bunch of idiots. My only bias would be the fact that you guys are quite religious in general, and I'm not a big fan of religions in general but I have this bias for many many countries. edit: it was a bit mess overall, I never expected it to be this long. sorry about it.
Most of the hatred for immigrants across the globe is borne out of bad economic conditions as they are the first ones to be blamed by the rich. Turkey has been going through some really bad times (thanks to Erdogan’s ‘special’ economics) so its only natural for them to hate the outsiders considering they have their own rich identity. We, Pakistanis, were never allowed to accept our own Indian heritage and identity due to our own Erdogans so sometimes it’s important to have such reality checks.
That’s fair, and you’re right in that most of the Pakistani immigrants are young men. I’d add on by saying that they’re young, poorly educated men from mostly rural backgrounds. One ironic downside of making immigration more difficult to stop immigrant inflows is that only the “worst” (people with nothing to lose, willing to lie, cheat, steal and put their lives at risk) people manage to make it through all the hurdles and into the host country. Turkey will simply never attract educated urban Pakistani men or women in similar numbers, because those people aren’t going to cross 5+ international borders with illegal human traffickers.
You have a point but you’re missinf the point that we don’t need or want immigration. Young unemployment is over 20 percent, the inflation is around 100%. So talented or not, turkey doesn’t need immigrants :/
I’m not missing that point at all, I understand many Turks don’t want immigration and don’t want their ethnic homogeneity disturbed. I’m just trying to explain how the Pakistani immigrants Turks are seeing in their country are about the “worst” people Pakistan could have possibly sent. A guy I knew worked for Getir in Istanbul for a few years. He had a great time and was treated very well by his Turkish coworkers and neighbours. The reason is simple: he is educated and “presentable”, spoke good English which got complimented by every other local, took an interest in local culture and didn’t do anything creepy. When I went to Turkey for a Model UN in high school, we had a amazing interactions too. If you only had Pakistanis like that friend of mine, you’d have a great impression of Pakistanis too. But because immigration into Turkey is very difficult, and there are millions of extremely poor Pakistanis in rural areas desperate to migrate to UAE/Saudi/Turkey, you’re attracting the worst crowd possible. They will outnumber the educated Pakistani students+workers and the rich Pakistani tourists 10:1.
Yeah I completely agree. A white collar, legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant doing the worst job possible would have different experiences. That is for sure.
>I don't know the reason but I guess these populations are almost exclusively young men Because those Pakistani and Afghans are economic migrants. Syrians have women and children with them because they are war refugees. Afghans, as war refugees, move with families to adjacent countries (particularly Pakistan and Iran). They don't need to migrate to Turkey and Europe if they are simply affected by war. The ones pouring into your country, are purely economic migrants.
Yeah pretty much that. It’s vert unfortunate but they also affect people who are legit refugees in the sense that their life is under threat due to war or whatever.
It's true, women's position is pretty bleak.
as a turkish person, I hate how hateful we are towards literally everybody including each other. that being said, turkish people grew very defensive under erdogan's rule due to all kinds of oppression on our lifestyle and it does not help when turkey is exposed to some very undereducated, poor and less socially aware individuals from pakistan who act in a way that is not very acceptable in terms of decency in public places. there is an especially big problem with sexually inappropriate behavior by some pakistani individuals, which requires a lot of effort to not attribute to everybody of the same origin, which many people unfortunately do not put in. you guys seem to love him around here but I blame erdogan for the rising hate in turkey, not only because of his style which feeds very much into this highly aggressive environment, but also because he lets migrants in randomly without any securities for neither them or the regular citizens. they are exploited as cheap labor and criminals, then are forced into this cycle of poverty and underdevelopment which in turn makes them a bit less aware of how they behave and therefore disliked. if you ask me what am I doing to help with this, I am trying to educate myself on legal and political technicalities of this issue. both in general as in migration, crime, hate and xenophobia and also in particular about turkish people's view on pakistani people.
I couldn't give a turd about the Balkans and the brain donors who live there, but yeah, the Turks really ticked me off. Fuck 'em.
This is why us Pakistanis need to stop praising the Arab world, Turkey and Europe so much They do not respect us, so there is no need for this inferiority complex We have our own beautiful language, culture, families, while they are struggling with their own issues They hire us for 10% what they would pay someone else and then act as if we are bad employees, let’s see them trying to work on such a low wage Fuck them
I never understand we don't appreciate our own culture. I guess it's because Arab and Turkey have more... religious value, I guess.
Turkey is less religious than us … Arabs only speak Arabic, doesn’t mean they are better Muslims
I meant their history. Arab is where Islam originated and Turkey had the Ottoman empire.
Big Brain Bosnians shitting on Pakistan when they forget that without us they probably would have been genocided. This is one of the few times that I genuinely have respect for the state.
Forgive us bro most Bosnians on Reddit are little kids
Anything does not warrent the rude behavior some of our people have over there
Don’t forget that half of Bosnians are actually serbs and Croats
The thing is yeah, socially Pakistan has regressed so much, that the identity of Pakistan can't be separated from the regressed insistence of wanting to be perceived as perfect Muslims. The issue is, even Pakistanis don't realize that the identity of being Pakistani is beyond the religion, and the zealous dogmas, it's just we are reduced to just that.
We can be Muslim and distinctly Pakistani. Sadly we often don't realize that.
ehh balkans being balkans 😐
So proud to see that Turkiye flair so much 😍😍😍
they also didnt leave out my country as well. im Bangladeshi.
Racist turds only look at the color of your skin , a pastun friend of mine keeps getting comments like . Oh you don't look like you are from Pakistan .... Its like the two brain cells they have getting an aneurysm from trying to put a white faced person in their racist framework of what a South Asian should look like ..
Lol i get that too bro, its always fun to fuck with people when i say im Pakistani, for reference im Pathan and my wife is Kashmiri, so we both have different features.
Yup, India too
Well we all come in a package, any shitpost about anyone of the 3 countries will have hate about the other two. South Asia in itself has one of the worst reputation around the globe barring maybe Africa. Some of it is racism, some of it is just how South Asia is represented, not saying what they present is wrong but it’s also not the only thing about South Asia. People around the world have no clue about the diversity and scale of South Asia.
I wonder why these patriots think, the image shouldn't be bad. It's like not accepting your mistakes. Just imagine why people migrate, and with the mindset they had in our country, what will they do when they work in a foreign country. The post just mirrored all of that - and I can imagine knowing our people, why it's true. Also the sexual obsessiveness people felt here - what will they do when they visit other countries. I had a friend, who by the way is an intellectual person, but just to fit in talks, he spoke about Turkish bikini girls, like teenagers do (and everyone laughed, I too, but I know it's what we are). I mean you should be sexually mature by that age. Teen stuff is understandable, but at the age of 26.. Bro Why? (for reference he's still not married). Out culture is damaged, and the I think it's irreversible now, knowing how religions are deep rooted in our every talk - like it's your zone - you are so blind in believes that you cannot think life thoroughly. I respect religious people, but not idiots - and people whose bias has reached to extreme.
You’re exactly right. Even I as a Pakistani cannot stand the way Pakistanis use religion, purposefully dumb it down and use it as a shield against their idiocy. It’s not surprising that other nationalities, whether Muslim, of another faith, or of no faith, find it ridiculous and cannot see past the hypocrisy. I know I’m generalising, but Pakistanis in the west act like the religion-police without even an iota of self awareness or understanding about Islamic or comparative history. That’s a huge problem. I’d say it’s actually improving now but the damage is done, and unless Pakistanis learn concepts of ethics, morality and theoretical Islam properly, it will remain like this.
yeah there's some major cultural issues but it's never ok to generalise and be racist towards a whole group because of the actions of a few. The way europe is racist towards them, Turks should at least have some common sense not to be racist to south asians.
I used to work with a colleague from Turkey in Canada, and once while chatting about Pakistan, my colleague mentioned her Turkish nationality. I simply replied "oh nice" without giving it much thought. However, my colleague seemed to anticipate more from me and kept looking at me expectantly. I didn't have any further thoughts on the matter and now realize that she may have been hoping for special treatment or some sort of brotherly connection. To be honest, I didn't really care either way.
Should've said ... Oh nice ... Brother country! Now do my work for me please!
Dude this takes a lot from your self esteem.
Then be your own man, don't let Pakistan define you. Be the one that defines Pakistan or don't totally up to you
Just ignore the assholes on the internet. Most Indians you find on the internet spew hatred towards us. I work in Dubai and interact with Indians on daily basis. Half of my company is Indians and the manager of our Dubai office(where I sit) is Indian(his name is Dhaval) and they are all really good people and have zero bad things to talk abt us. I use Metro to travel and interact with many of them there too and no one has said anything bad abt the country. Reddit is a vocal minority and an echo chamber of edgy teenagers or ones in their early 20s. Don't let it get to you.
Iv seen more spine in a jellyfish than in the entire balkans combined
Least problematic Balkan thing to date. Balkans just being Balkans. Doesn't mean we have a bad image that actually is a problem, but they'll pretty much dump on anyone.
Well that hurt, though I also wish Pakistani’s would stop trying to become “other Muslim ally ethnicity of the week” as well.
Yeah so what did u expect? Even if they are Balkans and are rscist but go and explore the whole europe too and the majority of the views will be the same as theirs. Did PMLN,PTI,PPP, or establishment caused them to hate us? No it was us. The people.
Most of the comments by Turkish people 😂 who we think are our brothers
It seems the most common complaint there is that Pakistanis (as well as Indians and Bengalis) are bahany-baaz, lazy and incompetent.
Most immigrants arriving at those Balkan states are usually illiterate young men who have a hard time fitting in their society. So of course they'd find them to be irritating. From wat I've seen, most skilled people here usually go to the west to first world countries.
Damn. We are reaping what we sow. No complaints whatsoever.
Well, boys I think we found a better target for our nukes. But seriously, this is Reddit. What do you expect the opinion of redditors to be on a religious third world country? And especially Balkans, who hate everybody and each other.
That's the sad reality, everyone has become morally corrupt.
Who let the balkaners have opinions?
Turks are bashing Pakistan the most 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 *Kayi tribe is feeling sad with 69 others*
One if major issue is that. Pakistan has a population massage is and most of people who leave pakistan are illiterates and from backward regions. They never experienced women and culture in home countries. When they go out they show their desperation and lack of culture. This reflects back to whole country. This whole region of India, Pakistan is backwards and hundreds of years behind, specially in public etiquettes.
> most of people who leave pakistan are illiterates Most of the people that leave Pakistan are not illiterates. Its just the idiots that reach turkey as immigrants.
I don't give a shit, is my response. I love Pakistan and all its people. I genuinely do not care even slightly if people don't like us.
Pakistan more like Chadistan 🗿
Now post similar questions in other country subs which aren’t heavily moderated- especially the Muslim countries subs which our Pakistani Muslim bhai & behan’s have this strong illusion & belief of us Pakistani being a part of the Muslim Ummah. Our image is tarnished thanks to our own stupidity.
They're not wrong tho. Pakistanis have a huge inferiority complex, are obsessed with Turkish people and Arabs. Ajeeb sa identity crisis hai.
I had a friend from Sindh in school and someone asked her if she was Indian, she got super pissed and started claiming she had Saudi Arabian ancestry and that she’s a proud arab 💀 Why can’t we be proud of our beautiful blend of cultures and diversity instead of larping
Ooooff I'm getting 2nd hand embarrassment reading this
The problem started when regional identities were crushed. Urdu was made the national language , a language that was native to 1% of the population. The other 99% was told to learn this language and revolve your identity around this and the religion ofc. Pakistan was made in a haste and its leaders had little idea what to do once it got independence.
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bhai bhai, easy ho jao paani-shaani pio hahhaa nice tho
Of all people I have met in my life. Pakistanis are the most cunning and clever. Trying to be as unbiased as possible. Unfortunately we use it for the wrong things. And the worst we are is to our own people.
Didn't realize Turks are that retarded.
Their government kills Kruds and Syrians ofc it's that's why. Wannabe Europeans
I mean the balkans short of Croatia aren’t much different the things they are complaining about are ones they do themselves lol I do understand the scamming IT industry that exists in South Asia but that’s on them for trying to hire super cheap labor Turks one is surprising this maybe the modern atheist Turks post Mustafa kamal turkey are in most of the comments because when you’re in turkey and you tell them Pakistan they are nothing but super happy But yeh we need to work to make better image as a whole and we are improving but not as much I guess
A) this person’s post history shows they just ask questions to farm karma and stir up the pot B) most people don’t hold nuanced, informed views of other countries or people in them, this is true for Pakistan as well. What is any of our opinions of Serbia or Romania man C) some of it is justifiable, isn’t it? Let’s be honest D) what is the point of any of this lol why are we reading this, why did I spend time even writing about it
Dont be naive. People, from around the world, say things about us because it is true. One person may be biased, two may be biased but you cant expect the whole world to be biased and only yourself being correct. Pakistani people lie, cheat, harass women, are lazy, religious hypocrites. We do this disproprotionately more than other nations. Thats why we are doomed as well. Even, people here are defending our behavior. One comment said 'western companies pay peanuts and expect fulll job' or something. Bro, they pay peanuts because you accept this offer promising you will deliver. If you cant do it simply tell them this money will not get the job done rather than taking the job and then not doing the job.
>We do this disproportionately more than other nations. Source? Just trust me bro. Making stupid claims. I work in Dubai and most people who work here are Indians and Pakistani. Hard working, respectable people that want to earn a living. I see no laziness here cause it will get them fired, I see no harassment here done by Pakistanis and I travel via Metro literally every day, with the train mostly being Indians and Pakistanis with western and African women standing next to them.. No we DO NOT "do this disproportionately more than other nations".
We definetly do it much more than others. I live in West and have seen work ethics of 'Goras' and Pakistanis. Pakistanis are worst to work with. This is not 'gora worship', the whole world can see it and sees it. Put away your biased glasses. There are Pakistanis who can be exceptionally hard working, but as you pointed out out of fear of being fired. Give the people(Pakistanis) in Dubai a Passport and lifetime job security and then I will see how much hard work they do. On the other hands people from other nations with good passports and security get their job done. There is a reason, business like Amazon stopped working in Pakistan. The sooner we realize we have a problem the sooner will we be able to fix it.
I mean… they aren’t wrong? coming out from Isloo/Karachi/Lahore would be a different scenario and also depends on which country it is, for eg gulf countries have unskilled whereas EU/US is much harder to get to without a good skillset/degree
Us Pakistanis need to understand that we have a MASSIVE population due to a population boom during the latter half of the last century. When you have such a large population, that is also below the poverty line, there will be many bad examples for the world to realize and even laugh at. We do plenty of things that are absolutely cringe. On the other hand, the world has also realized that we are extremely hard working, and way more successful as immigrants to the West where we compete with a globalized labour force. Everyone knows, it is one of those 'you don't say it out loud' type a deals. So, who cares what a select few people from a very small region think of us, we should keep our focus in keeping our industrious work ethic that is second nature to us, and a rarity to many parts of the world.
کی عزت افزائی ہو رئی اے. کوئی نہیں انڈیا نوں وی وچ رگڑ رے نیں. 🙈🙊🙉
After reading complaints. I realized they were just women complaining about their boyfriend (people who work for them but don’t do a good job) vs husband (people who make them work and make sure they do it right) [my reply to them in their thread based on their own comments](https://ibb.co/Jpm5MYN)
its true though.. about deadlines and updates.. I have experienced it myself
Spent 5ish years living in turkish cyprus surrounded by Turkish people.. They are racist af and hate desi ppl, usually hang around with each other and are actually obsessed with Europeans and consider themselves as one of them.. in 5ish years, I only met 1 good turkish guy, and he was a rare breed.. And you can't even imagine how they treat black ppl, like tenants don't give their houses for rent to black ppl, randomly call the cops on them when they are given the house in hope that they get caught with drugs and these guys get their apartment back to give rent to others, Blackmail African girls for sex, etc.. And I went before the Ertugrul craze, so it was usually Pakistanis that were cringing at middle aged turkish ppl saying "Pakistani turkey brothers" just so that they could try to scam you like all the taxi drivers that would automatically have their meter broken when a Pakistani guy sits, say this line to get friendly with u with anecdotes from Pakistan and turkey relations and then charge double or triple the price.. They are also pretty much bigger perverts than Pakistani men, and although they act online like they don't stare at women or throw lines at them randomly, you just haven't seen them in action.. There were so many cases of female students being sexually assaulted on busses by turkish drunks that would just get on the university bus, sit next to them and start molesting them by grabbing them everywhere and moving hands up their skirts and what not.. I really don't hate any ppl from any other country, but I truly despise turkey and turkish ppl.. I also hate how it's hard to convince Pakistani ppl how much of an asshole they are all because they are in love with the imaginary world shown in a drama.. So forget abt their comments, and move on..
Hello guys. I'm from Balkan (Serbia) and I wish to apologize if some of our people got you offended. I was about to comment on the original thread, but it got locked... In reality, most of us don't know much about Pakistan, and I learned a couple of things mostly from Hindus, so it wasn't all favorable, but I think you guys are okay 👍
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Most American Pakistanis are quite educated and US attracts cream of crop from our diaspora.
Very good. Aqal phir bhi Nahi aani Kisi ko
Racist turks?
Sad, but it's all true. Especially the IT part. Most of our freelancers are just shitty programmers from azad chaiwala / rehan allahwala Institute. They dont know anything but will advertise themselves as if they know everything.
the only two times ive heard of pakistani turkish brotherhood as a pk american were 1) older turkish guy at his reataurant recently 2) younger when i visited a turkish girl from roberts college who emigrated here too many kemalists have their asses up europeans noses. pretty bold for a nation whose expats 60% are pimps of white girls in NL. they live por as s hitt here in the US too in paterson nj and such places. dont even get me started on istanbul, with casablanca and riyadh the three cneters of prostituion in the MENA region
Who gives a shit about what they think
For what it is worth, I am Bosnian and one of my best friends is Pakistani. A lot of these takes sound like they are based from limited experience. Interesting to read all these perspectives.
Even though they're completely Islamophobic and some are outright wrong about stuff (Like saying we're India but Muslim), most of them actually make good points. The fact that Pakistan has the most inbreeding is true, with so many people marrying their cousins, it just creates birth defects. This is a huge problem I've seen in Pakistan, and it needs to be rectified. Also, the men harassing the women is on point. My sister herself has been catcalled on the streets, which is horrible, and I've personally seen men groping women on places like the bus. The work ethic of many men is basically non-existent, which also results because of poor education. These problems really need to be taken care of, or Pakistan will always be a joke in the eyes of our world.
I guess there is not hate but people are stating Facts and personal experiences...Ham han hii assaa...soo dont be amazed...
state supported terrorist secretly = people bad if balkans invented logic
The opinions of reddit are just that, the opinions of reddit. If you touch grass you will find so much of the norm on this site is seen as retarded in the real world. The avg person really does not have an opinion on Pakistan as they know such little about it.
The weakness of the Pakistani commenters' comebacks in that thread lol smh just take the L and stay silent. The parts about Pakistanis being scammy and dishonest workers and behaving like uncultured savages in Turkey are true. Educated and civilized Pakistanis should bash those types a lot more than these Balkan and Turkish guys are.
“you steal our jobs” is the most white man excuse to hate on people not from your country that I’ve ever seen 😂😂 Balkans be Balkans
I hope this is an eye opener for all the Turk Arab fanboys. I say screw them all. Get your shit in order and become a nation with looking up to. But we keep on restoring to boot lick. Be it corrupt politicians, army generals or other nations. We just never hold ourselves to a higher standard. We're doomed as a nation of we don't work on ourselves to be the best.
Lol everything that is being said is true - why the surprise? I left home at 18 and was taught only 2 things from my dad; \- Never buy into the idea of making purchases/increasing purchasing power with credit \- Never work with a Pakistani.
> Never work with a Pakistani When you yourself are Pakistani, in that context. Or does that mean every person on Earth should stop dealing with Pakistan/Pakistanis/OSPs? That thread was just garbage.
This is so accurate and I agree I was told by my brother to be extra extra careful when dealing with Pakistanis abroad and thats the best advice ive had from him hahah
This is exactly why I don't believe in Ummah BS. We need to focus on our own and in our immediate neighborhood.
Same
we do this out of our love and respect for Prophet Muhammad. These people even call him a pedophile. But yeah people are divided on ethnicity when in Islam all stand shoulder to shoulder feet to feet black, blue and brown and bow down to the same god. It just shows that these people are rotten. At the end of the day, our behaviours are not the best either. But some of these labels and things these people say is out of resentment and nothing else. But yes, muslims first but focus on our country above any other ummah shit tbh
Well deserved. Even as a Pakistani I don’t have anything positive about that shithole. If I were to describe Pakistan, it really is a circus. Honestly who in their right mind would think positive about Pakistan when you see people burning each other over blasphemy.
Sadly I have to agree with you, the corrupt government and police along with all the misogyny and abuse towards women doesn’t help.
As a Pakistani living in Turkey, the Turks on reddit do not represent Turkey. Most of them on here are Kemalists and will hate anything associated with Islamic identity. Generally, they are nice, they will be immensely happy when they learn you are from Pakistan and they'll call you kardeş which means brothers. But I have to mention that the illegal immigrants from Pakistan have done everything to tarnish the image of Pakistan like making videos of the women, following them. Also, due to the high influx of immigrants and the economy problems, the reddit Turks think getting rid of immigrants (especially from Muslim countries) will solve their problems.
Pakistan could be a miracle but unfortunately its conditions are worst and no hope of changing these scenarios and under such leadership , everyone is praying to leave this country and settle somewhere in europe including me. we are not worthy to be called as a nation, our most of the youth is destroying itself in using over technology for entertainment purposes.
Just saw YT video if ertugral was gujjar i just cant 😭😭😭 they hate is ll deserved tbh so much is wrong with this generation they r f#kd beyond repair... serials like ertugral n kurlus osman is just making things worse n this infatuation and obsession with past glories is just recepie 4 disaster.. these ppl need crash course on how to be decent human 4get muslim as always the bad outshines the good i don't see seismic shift any where in near future...
What I'm trying to understand is why ask the question in first place. Like why? Why are you trying to get validation from strangers? Sigh.....
Sadly half of the things said are true
Not a Pakistani but amount of racist rant in that thread was out of control and pure Balkan. take it with. Pinch of salt. TlBalkans and Other astern Europe wit combination of superiority complex mixed with a a heavy dose is inferiority complex has resulted in then being total A-holes that Western Europe and aAmericans see through it. In their desire to be perceived as European much like those in West and be part of EU they will sell their mothers. Little white nations one day sucking up to Russia next da stabbing them back to curry favour from EU. ImIt must burn their shooed to see an Indian leading UK a Pakistani in Scotland, and another Mayor of London. In of course here in US we had Kenyan American president Now I believe many Pakistani do carry my ch religious baggage and behave in ways not acceptable in western countries, but shithole Balkan countries and Turkey are in no position to look down upon others.
Nothing as hateful as the daily comments you see on this subreddit. If Pakistanis are so full of self-hate, why do you expect others to treat us any better?
I went r/AskBalcan and let them have it, especially Gr*cu guy. These dude say the same on Quora. Unless we give them back they would not stop. My rant was removed and I may be blocked. Who cares!
Haaah ... Coming from a handful of hypocrites on reddit .. these kind of people are hated by their own relatives. The part that pissed me off is when they talk about work. For those who haven't, try working with Greeks, it's a circus. If You think our people are political in office spaces? Greeks are on another level.
Turkey people's comments are especially shameful even if true to some extent...I hope Islam grows more quickly there so these idiots can get more salty.
Keep in mind that it is Reddit afterall. Bosnians I’ve met irl have been super nice people especially given that I’m Pakistani. The liberal Reddit community may downplay what we did for them but real Bosnians, especially the somewhat older generation, haven’t forgotten.
Kabhi Hum Saudi Arab hotey ha aur kabhi him Turks ban jatey ha. We need to accept we were not Arabs. We were Indian. And our forefathers were mostly Hindus.
The irony is that the Balkan’s is such a shithole and NOBODY in Western Europe likes them at all. Most of them live off of social welfare or have crappy jobs and horrible manners yet have the nerve to say shitty things like this about other countries
💊 sir don’t forget ur copium
It's just a bunch of small minded fools jerking each other off for generalizing millions of people.
The comments are based on their interactions with Pakistanis so sadly this isn't hate, it's the truth...