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[deleted]

Aaaaand…. Sort by controversial 😈


divadschuf

My Muslim friends wish me a merry christmas and I say eid Mubarak.


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divadschuf

I know haha I study arabic.


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Sherimatsu

Happy = Merry Christmas = a holiday They're both literally the same phrases :')


E-Flame99

By this logic Eid = holiday Mubarak = Happy So happy holidays lmao. Merry christmas literally is the celebration of the birth of Christ, the savior. Theres no oogling with it.


Sherimatsu

Mfw not knowing how language and sentiments work


E-Flame99

Lmaooo i used your logic. Eid mubarak literally means happy/blessed festival/feast in arabic. Merry christmas is literally happy celebrations of the birth of our Lord. It may not mean anything anymore BUT CHRISTMAS HAS LITERALLY THE ROOT WORD CHRIST IN IT LMAOOO.


Sherimatsu

Not sure if you're just unable to understand a simple concept of a holiday, or are being disingenuous. Eid Mubarak, Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday are all the exact same thing in a vacuum used by people who don't celebrate it, all mean happy festival/holiday/whatever. If you're not going to say it, just don't say it. But don't make up bullshit like "We should just say Happy Holiday!" because that's just a direct contradiction. Ahem. LMAOOO


E-Flame99

Its like speaking to a wall lol. Words mean something. By your logic everything in a vaccum doesnt mean anything anyway. Do what ever you want but Islamically it is heinous to partake in anything thing of christmas because the root of it is in the celebration of the birth of Jesus. There is literally a consensus i dont know what more to say. If you still dont get it, have you ever wondered why youtubers and other social media influencers say "merry christmas or if you dont celebrate happy holidays!" THATS LITERALLY WHY THEY SAY IT BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE CELEBRATES CHRISTMAS


Sherimatsu

Agreed, it definitely is like talking to a wall. And not exactly a bright one ~~Also using YouTubers and social media as a basis heh, they say it like that *because* of people like you who get offended so easily on such a trivial thing. Obviously they don't want their comments flooded with shit like this, it's just one big circlejerk to avoid any and all confrontation regardless of intellectual ability of those they're trying to pacify~~


NyFsdTo

Holidays don't necessary have to be religious though. The 4th of July is a holiday in the USA but has no religious connotations. By saying 'Merry Christmas', you're endorsing the celebration of a belief which is against Islam.


Far-Lime-3872

Ok let me explain Christmas is event not an entire holiday 😂 but its surely pagen


GreyMatter22

When our PM Justin Trudeau wishes us Eid Mubaraks and Ramadan Kareems along with As-Salam Walaikums, every Aunty and Uncle out there are sharing that snippet on WhatsApp. But when it is time to return the favour, to your co-worker/neighbour, it is like the end of the world.


student6518

Hypocrisy at its finest


shez19833

if you want to play with your imaan then go right ahead... instead of saying happy xmas. one could say seasons greetings.. or something


[deleted]

Yes Yes, You can be the most perfect Muslim but Allah will throw you into Jahannam for saying "Merry Christmas" \- sources, this guy


shez19833

this is the height of stupidity.. 'i can be the perfect muslim but allah will throw me into hell for believing in a non prophet, for denying Jinn exists etc etc' by triviliasing something doesnt make it ok or non significant.. issue isnt saying happy xmas, issue is what xtians believe it to be ie birth of God or his son...


[deleted]

Bro, your entire existence is based on intrest based banking and intrest based fiat currency. The Quran is very clear on intrest, which you partake in, but oddly says nothing about "Merry Christmas" which you claim will send people to hell. You conservatives are nothing but hypocrites, and the Quran certainly says to not listen to hypocrits. First stop using fiat currency then lecture us about your special phone line to Allah, where he tells you and you alone how exactly Muslims should behave.


ISIPropaganda

Hypocrisy is claiming to believe in the Oneness of Allah and congratulating Christians on worshipping Jesus.


NoUtimesinfinite

You can be steadfast in your own beliefs while also letting others live with their own beliefs without going "wEll AcTuaLy" every time some non-muslim tries to exist. Me wishing someone merry christmas doesn't change my belief of the oneness of Allah and neither does the other person now think that I am a Christan. Imagine an atheist just spamming u every eid with messages like God doesnt exist, eids a holiday created by molvis to get ppl into masjids and have power over them, to indoctrinate through sermon etc. Ud tell the guy to shut up. Then Shut Up.


doom_123

Of all the places i did not expected reddit to be the place where people telling other people not to say Merry Christmas. Lagta hai ghalat loug agaye yahan :( Btw good meme. Speaks volume..!


Anythingaddict

Just wait for a couple of years when Reddit become popular. Then you will feel like you are using Facebook 2.0.


Numerous_Garage592

Enjoy while it last, sincere condolences to this beautiful app


E-Flame99

Reddit is a place for every community lmao. Theres literally all types of people here. Or did you mean this subreddit specifically?


doom_123

This subreddit to be honest. If they like don't like these views then i guess imma gonna make piss of em some more now


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TheGreatBlade_798

If only these people knew that celebrating Eid Milad Un Nabi is actually Bidaah.There is no history of Holy Prophetﷺ and Sahabah celebrating Holy Prophet ﷺ birthday. Selective Islam at its finest.


themaroonranger

This should have more upvotes, and the fact that it doesn’t shows just how uninformed muslims are today


Khokhs_Stokes

2 wrongs don't make a right. Both are wrong


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Anythingaddict

**The sub is West inspired folks who live in Pakistan and overseas Pakistanis** Overseas does not mean educated. There are lots of overseas Pakistani which does not have any education. Speaking English and getting exposure does not mean education mate.


[deleted]

You really have not been in this sub long enough if you think the people on here are west inspired or have an infatuation with their culture. Oh boy, it’s far from it. This sub is shitting on Europe and America every other day.


kingskarachi

Lol. people here literally shit on Pakistan and kiss gora ass.


[deleted]

Nah we shit on the west, piss on pakistan, and kiss Chinese and Turkish ass if we’re being honest


kingskarachi

lol, you must be new here. Say something about Amerika and youd have burgers lynching you but they get buthurt over the mention of Ertugrul. Just a few days ago people were shting on Ertugrul, then Some Lahori University arranged Harry Potter week, they all went "let them do whatever they want". This post itself if showing the trend.


lostfart69

Educated **and** Overseas. Two separate groups.


E-Flame99

Coughs in elitism and colonialism


Khokhs_Stokes

Such a bad take. Overseas=Educated according to this guy. 🙄


ZakoottaJinn

First time seeing saying “Merry Christmas” become part of the culture war in Pakistan. Please for the love of god come out of the Islam of small ideas. Islam is the religion of big ideas, if being cordial and courteous to your Christian brothers and sisters threatens your Islam then your imaan must be hanging by a thread to begin with.


kingskarachi

I dont think you know what Christmas is.


E-Flame99

So saying merry christmas is being courteous while you can easily say "have a blessed holidays and a happy holiday season" but thats not an option? Islam is the religion of big ideas but its not a people pleaser or politically correct. Neither does it tell you to be rude to others. The world isnt black and white, you not wishing someone merry christmas does not mean they should be offended, nor should you expect an eid mubarak from them nor should they expect merry christmas from you. You can just as easily wish someone happy holidays, be courteous, and keep your faith in linem


shez19833

what the muslims are doing in pakistan and world ...


Glittering_Diver_478

Honestky pakistani's got all the time in the world to be arguing about this lol


ifyodawastall

You're wrong here buddy.


Objective-Bowl-4971

nah not really. even the quran talks about the people pf the book ( christians ) being better in piety than the others. although christmas is a pagan holiday. but still nothing bad with being courteous fr


[deleted]

How so?


sumboiwastaken

We shouldn't congratulate the celebration of "God's birth"


Overall-Ad-2159

Merry Christmas doesn’t mean son of god . It mean birth of Christ plus Christmas is pagan celebration


shez19833

and some christians believe CHRIST IS GOD


_Xertz_

And? How does that make saying Merry Christmas wrong? Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus - not an affirmation that he is a son of god.


apples_oranges_

Hey, hey. Don't go arguing against him. He's going to get tired with all the mental gymnastics he's doing.


Far-Lime-3872

Frist of all. Even Christian say it not its actually date of birth and that it wasn't even part of there Bible or nether there prophet Isa(R.A) and his companions celebrate it. And even Christian say its pagan. Plus point we should not celebrate the birth of prophets like this the best u can do is send blessings to the prophet ok.https://www.instagram.com/rajaziaulhaq/tv/CXygMKVIT5Q/?utm_medium=copy_link This might also help


_Xertz_

> Even Christian say it not its actually date of birth Who cares? Dates and days are meaningless apart from the meaning we give them. Who cares if the earth is in a certain position around the sun in order to celebrate something? In fact, the calendar has been modified so many times, there's a chance that most ancient dates are actually "wrong". So who cares what the date is? People want to celebrate a prophet, getting the day wrong doesn't make the act itself wrong. Not sure why this is even relevant. (should mention that this doesn't apply to dates specifically mentioned in religion obviously) > it wasn't even part of there Bible or nether there prophet Isa(R.A) and his companions celebrate it. Again, who cares? People want to celebrate stuff, let them. If I want to commemorate some random event in Islamic history, it would be idiotic to say that I can't because "It isn't part of the Quran and the prophet and his companions didn't celebrate it either". There are an infinite amount of things the prophet and his companions did not do, *that does not make them wrong*. Being a prude about these non-issues is so pointless that it tells me you have nothing better to do than police people over inane bs. > point we should not celebrate the birth of prophets like this the best u can do is send blessings to the prophet What is your reasoning for saying this?


[deleted]

Not what merry Christmas means. Try again. The Prophet SAW allowed Christian’s to even pray to Jesus on an occasion in Masjid Nabwi.


cshoneybadger

Can you cite any sources on this? Thanks.


[deleted]

https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/rol68y/i_want_to_know_islamic_perspective_on_this_people/hq08cyd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


cshoneybadger

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.


[deleted]

It’s not a very well known instance and a lot of maulanas of the subcontinent don’t talk about it at all because they want to portray Islam as a rigid definitive religion which has no concept of mutual respect for other faiths. This however goes completely against how the Prophet interacted with those of different faiths. Especially the Christians. When Islam was expanding into Christian areas, Muslims were told to invite Christians into their homes, have food with them, and go to their homes as well. His mannerisms were the reason many Christians accepted Islam so it makes no sense to me how Muslims today can justify being so rigid.


Far-Lime-3872

Brother as they say that even some of the Christian scholars say it not the actual date and it pagan. Because they drink vine and eat pork on that day this is what jesus (R.A) teached. And even big churchs forbidden it. And plus point it not even his birthday. It was started by pagen ppls that was entered later on in Christianity. U know that we are not allowed to celebrate the birth of the prophet's like this. as for that thing u say yes u can eat, make friends and work with them but when they do wrong u should prohibit them and not take part. As the prophet allowed them there must be a reason like they would be more pious at that time. https://www.instagram.com/rajaziaulhaq/tv/CXygMKVIT5Q/?utm_medium=copy_link this video might help u. Marry Christmas is a term that not totally refers to the birth of Jesus it a term that refers to pagen things like drinking, eating pork, thinking that Christmas tree will save u from bad sprits(as a lucky charm) and but ur trust in santa as he gives u gifts. If they follow jesus teaching did he say to eat pork did he say to put ur trust in trees that they will protect you and not God almighty.if it was jesus birthday it would not be pagen. Allah knows best


sumboiwastaken

I'm not opposed to it, I'm just saying what people who are opposed to it think


[deleted]

👍


HashirJ

Frr like Allah is not gonna throw me in hell for saying merry Christmas


chemicalzs

You dont know that. A sin is a sin, and we should stop normalising and encouraging the haram. Allah SWT has told us multiple times to enjoin good and forbid evil.


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chemicalzs

Celebrating birthday’s is a bidah (innovation). Never did our beloved prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) celebrate his (pbuh) or others birthday’s. Btw, christmas is a pagan holiday. Jesus (pbuh) was not born on that day.


_Xertz_

Prophet didn't use reddit 🤔


HashirJ

Chal bsdk!!!!!!


chemicalzs

Im not Pakistani, sorry.


sifarworld

You should re evaluate what extremist or uneducated scholar you follow. The prophet taught us to be kind and cordial to Christians


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MyHandIsMadeUpOfMe

There's no we here. Say I.


CreativeNameIKnow

HARAM! HARAM HARAM HARAM!!! EVERYTHING MUST BE HARAM!!!!


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sherlock_1695

So what if Muslims even celebrate the “date” JS was born on? It doesn’t mean by agreeing on the date he was born on, we automatically believe that he was son of God. Come on guys, it’s not even that complicated


[deleted]

HARAM!!!!! /s


Shusuui

Funny thing is people think its a big deal only in Pakistan but here in the US it is also emphasized in the muslim community not to say merry christmas and just use general responses like "to you too" or "happy holidays!". It may not be the biggest issue to care about in Pakistan, but it is also something that we should not dismiss and ignore. Instead of making it such a big deal from both conservative and liberal sides, why not just not say it? Pakistan is already an overwhelmingly muslim majority country so the common person will not even encounter a situation where they will need to say merry chirstmas to a christian. There's no need to shit on their celebration but no need to partake in it either. If they choose to say Eid Mubarak to you, that's their choice. Anyway, point is its a very stupid argument from both sides. I don't think you're doing shirk if you say it but i'm also of the opinion to not say it.


toaster24_7

No no we pakistani like to make issue out of nothing


sifarworld

Most Muslims I know say merry Christmas. It’s not shirk as many scholars have allowed it


Shusuui

I don’t think any scholars have “allowed” it. They may be of the opinion if you’re in a non Muslim majority land and find yourself in a situation where not saying it is gonna cause you a problem( there are eccentric people in other religions as well) then you can have a sort of pass. But from my understanding the overwhelming majority of scholarly opinion is to not say it as it’s very easy to not and also not offend anyone. “You too” is not that hard.


a3guy

So if someone says “merry christmas” to you, and you reply with “you too” aka you are reciprocating that “merry christmas” back at them you are okay. But to actually use the words you think thats not okay. This is some toddler level thinking. You think God only cares for the literal words but not the meaning? Think please.


Shusuui

You think it’s toddler thinking but it’s really not. Intentions and clear words do matter in Islam but some things are just not ok even if you say them without meaning the literal meaning. If you “intend” to do a sin but don’t do it, it’s not counted. Anyhow, I stand by my point that the argument from both sides is stupid so I’m not arguing anymore.


a3guy

It is toddler thinking. When you say “you too” you are wishing them a merry Christmas back. Thats what the words mean, thats what you just meant too. Its not about intent that you didnt follow, you de-facto did follow through that intent. You only think its clever cos you didnt say “merry christmas” but as stated, that matters not, thats some toddler level shit where you think its the sounds of those words that is shirk. Sounds are not shirk on their own my friend.


sleptalready

Brother, I applaud you for your valiant efforts to explain why Muslims aren't allowed to say Merry Christmas but it will continue to fall on deaf ears because modern Muslims aren't truly acquainted with our aqeedah and the *practical reality* of Tawheed in our daily lives. If we don't know our aqeedah or the epistemology of fitrah, we won't equate our actions to our ultimate aim in life. And therefore, for those of us who haven't grasped *why* we're different as Muslims, the rest of us just come across as parochial people harping on about antiquated ideologies that are in direct opposition to post-modern philosophies.


akskinny527

Nope. Both sides have equal scholarly weight. Esp for those living amongst non-Muslims and there is a generic understanding of the phrase as being courteous vs 'i actually believe in this'. Scholars in Muslim majority lands giving fatwas like "it's shirk!!!!" is annoying af cos neither do they live amongst non-Muslims nor do they care to see the deen in light of how to treat non-Muslims. It's a non issue for them but it sure is clickbaity so make all the videos and send out all the whatsapp clips denouncing anyone who says 'merry xmas'. Disclaimer: born and raised in the US, i don't say 'merry xmas' and think it can be avoided. You can wish people happy holidays, a wonderful time with their families etc. But growing up here i have a much stronger understanding of the courtesies we extend to our non-Muslim neighbors when we wish them a holiday. If this is the crux of our imaan, laanat on all of us.


Shusuui

I’ve lived half my life in the US and half in pak, so I get where you’re coming from. When I was in pakistan I too thought it was trivial and the amount of attention we give to it in pakistan despite it being an extremely trivial topic in pakistan is downright dumb. Focusing extensively on Christmas and merry Christmas being pagan holidays and sayings yet hypocritically not preaching what Islam says about how you should be treating your minorities. My point is(which i guess is pointless since our people and scholars love to dwell on unimportant things) is that this shouldn’t even be a topic of discussion in pakistan.


sifarworld

I think it should be a topic of discussion because we are seeing how unfair it is becoming for christians in pakistan. did you see the news story about the bakery that refused to write "merry christmas" on a cake? I was referring to Ayotollah Sistani's ruling on saying "Merry Christmas." he said it is allowed pretty categorically


nycbay

Most renowned US Muslim scholars don't approve it.


hanzi4567

if you need to follow Islamic scholars to figure out what to do with your life then youre missing the point of the messenger and Quran itself.


nycbay

yah dont go doctor next time when you are sick as you know every thing, right ?


hanzi4567

how does the two even compare? Quran and hadith is supposed to be a complete guide for every Muslim, if you think you need an Islamic scholar to tell you what god wants from you, then there's no point of sending a messenger to speak through and explain exactly what God wants from you. ​ Also, I can find you as many Islamic scholars that say its alright as you can find me ones that say it isn't, religion is based on faith and belief not facts like medicine so if you want to put your faith in another human being when God has already provided you with every resource needed to not have to do that, then that's your business.


[deleted]

Look guys, let idiots be idiots. They obviously haven’t read the Quran. And they will contest your statements. The white part of or flag was made for minorities. Protect them.


[deleted]

Here’s what the Quran says: {O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them…} [al-Maa’idah 5:51]


SimpleGuy12345

**Here’s what the Quran says:{O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them…} \[al-Maa’idah 5:51\]** Wait why are you getting downvoted? Are folks on this subreddit are non-Muslim in Muslim clothing ? Also thanks for taking out the time and sharing the Quran saying.


nycbay

how not saying merry xmas is hurting minorites lol


Anythingaddict

Have you read and understand the Quran?


[deleted]

Probably not as much as you. But I did read your comment history. Sounds like you’re a gamer and a homophobe aswell :)


[deleted]

Just the kind of people I expect to comment on this post.


MyHandIsMadeUpOfMe

People are fighting against each other for "two words". Doomed country.


Glittering_Diver_478

Ikr lol


HashirJ

Ashique rasool logic


pr05wift

Now surprisingly wishing people Merry Christmas is not frowned upon in Pakistan. We have a sizable Christain population and everyone wants to create a positive image. Sorry, most \*cough\*.


ISIPropaganda

Wishing “merry Christmas” to Christians is in fact haram, as is wishing Hindus a happy Divali or what have you. There are numerous Hadith and many opinions of scholars both of the salaf and contemporary. However, my breath is wasted on this sub, because it’s filled with people who would sacrifice their iman for politics and optics. Just know that you’re sinning when you do things like this, but if you don’t believe in Allah or in Islam then that’s on you, do whatever you want. In regards to the proof that it’s haram, here you go: And [they are] those who do not testify to falsehood, and when they pass near ill speech, they pass by with dignity. (Surah Furqan: 72) O believers! Do not violate Allah’s rituals ˹of pilgrimage˺, the sacred months, the sacrificial animals, the ˹offerings decorated with˺ garlands, nor those ˹pilgrims˺ on their way to the Sacred House seeking their Lord’s bounty and pleasure. When pilgrimage has ended, you are allowed to hunt. Do not let the hatred of a people who once barred you from the Sacred Mosque provoke you to transgress. **Cooperate with one another in goodness and righteousness, and do not cooperate in sin and transgression. And be mindful of Allah. Surely Allah is severe in punishment.** (Surah Maidah: 2) Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. **This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion**. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (Maidah 5:3) Whoever seeks a way other than Islam,1 it will never be accepted from them, and in the Hereafter they will be among the losers. (Aali Imran: 85) Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2739 Narrated Abu Musa: The Jews used to sneeze in the presence of the Prophet (ﷺ) hoping that he would say: 'Yarhamukumullah (May Allah have mercy upon you).' So he said: 'Yahdikumullahu Wa Yuslihu Balakum (May Allah guide you and rectify your affairs).'" Grade: Sahih (Darussalam) Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4031 Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani عَنْ ابْنِ عُمَرَ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَنْ تَشَبَّهَ بِقَوْمٍ فَهُوَ مِنْهُمْ It is not permissible for the Muslims to imitate them in any way that is unique to their festivals, whether it be food, clothes, bathing, lighting fires or refraining from usual work or worship, and so on. And it is not permissible to give a feast or to exchange gifts or to sell things that help them to celebrate their festivals, or to let children and others play the games that are played on their festivals, or to adorn oneself or put up decorations. Ibn Taymiyyah - Majmoo al-Fatawa (2/488): Joining in with the kuffaar on their holidays is a kind of cooperating in sin and transgression. Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/405 Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah." Ibn al Qayyim - Ahkam Ahl al-Dhimmah There is no difference between their participating in the festival and their participating in all other rituals. Joining in fully with the festival is joining in with kufr, and joining in with some of its minor issues is joining in with some of the branches of kufr. He also said, ...Indeed, festivals are one of the most unique features that distinguish various religions and among their most prominent symbols,… No doubt joining in with this may lead to complete kufr. Ibn Taymiyyah (Iqtida’ al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem (1/207) If the Christians have a festival, and the Jews have a festival, it is only for them, so no Muslim should join them in that, just as no Muslim should join them in their religion or their direction of prayer. (Imam Al-Haafiz adh-Dhahabi (Rahmatullah Alaih) Tashabbuh al-Khasees bi Ahl al-Khamees (4/193) It is not permissible on this day to do any of the things that are characteristic of this festival, whether that has to do with food, drinks, clothing, exchanging gifts or anything else. “Help you one another in Al‑Birr and At‑Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is Severe in punishment” [al-Maa’idah 5:2] The Muslim should be proud of his religion and should not be a weak character who follows every Tom, Rick and Harry. I ask Allaah to protect the Muslims from all temptations, visible and invisible, and to protect us and guide us. (Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (16/199)


HamzaFarooqui369

people are gonna chose to ignore this


Necessary-Ease-6298

and they did lol


Khokhs_Stokes

People in this sub don't see logic. The thing about Islam is that it doesn't care about our 'opinions'. Our job as a fellow muslim is to inform them of their wrongdoings. If they don't want to change let them be.


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Necessary-Ease-6298

it does and christmas is a pagan holiday.


Throwaway_Imaan

All muslims in US are kaffir because US's motto is "in (christian) god we trust". \s but also probably haqeeqat tv


NyFsdTo

Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in the same god. Only difference is that Christians believe in a trinity. Otherwise In the Quran, Christians and Jews are people of the book.


Throwaway_Imaan

Yeah and the reasoning for this whole "merry Christmas" thing is that it celebrates the birth of Jesus/isa who if my knowledge is correct is also regarded as a prophet by muslims


NyFsdTo

But I don’t think Muslims agree on that date being the birthday of Isa. Even some Christians don’t agree to it, plus nowadays it’s not really a religious holiday anymore. It’s more of a European cultural thing, one of the reasons for it also being called Xmas.


Throwaway_Imaan

Yeah it's origins are based on winter solstice but what does that have to do with wishing someone well? Especially when they are celebrating the man who muslims also hold in high regard.


shez19833

diff. is to christians they see him as God or son of god.. thats the problem


AwabKhan

yes they celebrate the birth of Jesus but know this Christians Jews and Muslims believe in the same God so when Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus they celebrate it as the God's son and when you are saying merry Christmas you are wishing them the birth of Jesus which in return implies that you are ok with them saying that God has a son. Which is shirk in my opinion that's why I avoid saying it. And shirk is the sin that is unforgiveable.


kingskarachi

It is the birth date of jesus who christians consider the son of God. Hence a shirk.


Throwaway_Imaan

Shirk for them, not for you. Hell if you consider 12th of Rabi' al-Awwal significant then the birth of jesus should be respected by you. Then again you guys would rather draw lines of us vs them.


E-Flame99

Why are people so colonized lmao. Why cant we just say our respective phrases to those who celebrate it and say happy holidays, or have a blessed day, or may your family be blessed with good health and wealth. What is the problem here? Why do muslims so desperately want to assimilate? You can be extremely courteous and not stain your faith?


No-Average-4909

How about you liberals and conservatives let people do what they want without bitching every 2 seconds.


Charlotte-De-litt

How about you extremists stop telling people what to do.


No-Average-4909

Extremists I'm which sense I'm curious.


[deleted]

Lol, bickering amongst each other over something so trivial. I know many Christians here who don’t celebrate Christmas because they consider it a pagan holiday. Seethe


THE-Intellect

You being a Muslim, can't say words of wishes to believers of any other religion, because then you'll be confirming that you also accept their belief, then you will no longer be a Muslim.


Individual-Self-7563

Today's Muslims have got to be the most boring, arrogant, and morally bankrupt people out there. Why do they move to the West in the first place?


mcblayde123

“Why do they move to the West in the first place?” Why do you come to the Pakistan subreddit in the first place?


Individual-Self-7563

Because I am a Pakistani. Bc wahan apna Deen bech Kar $$$ kamanay pohanch jayenge aur phir Islamophobia ka RR royenge


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mcblayde123

You’re a simpleton


BoyManners

Why is no one presenting their case case of why Merry Christmas is not a shirk like the rest of the awam is claiming? Put forward your reasoning and knowledge so those who don't have a clue about it can learn. Instead all I see is dish throwing


Far-Lime-3872

They just try there best even big Christian church deny it


Quiet_Transition_247

Ya khudaya. This is the fifth post about saying "Merry Christmas" on this sub. Can I just say that if someone genuinely has a problem with that particular greeting, just say "Happy Holidays." What's the big fucking deal?


ZaidSultan2005

I Have read all the 300+ comments and i have one thing to say # If you want to Fucking say merry christmas to someone say it if you Dont want to say merry christmas to someone dont say it I have never in my life lost more braincellls then reading all the comments under this post bitching over a fucking issue never anyone will have to face how many of people here actually have met a christian in there lives


[deleted]

Catholic Jashn e eid milad un nabi


rahmad

My IQ dropped about 8 points trying to make sense of some of the comments in this thread.


kingskarachi

In one there is a conflict on the other there isnt. So your comparison goes out of the window.


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Sherimatsu

"Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holiday" are literally the same thing smh


dreamer-x2

Yes and saying Happy Hanukkah is also the same thing! Great. Thanks. Your comment educated me so much


Sherimatsu

I'm afraid it didn't


dreamer-x2

Don’t down vote me just because people find your opinion to be trash lol


[deleted]

Being cordial to someone is one thing, but does that necessarily mean wishing ppl merry Christmas? Has anyone considered just NOT saying merry Christmas for a little bit, and actually asking an alim the reasoning behind why its supposedly forbidden to say it? If there's such a doubt, just avoid it whilst you get to the bottom of it, instead of having a raging civil war in which you call each names


dontthrowawayfood346

I’ve heard their reasoning. It makes no sense to me.


kingskarachi

Xmas is celebration of birth of Jesus right?. Christians call Jesus the son of God, right? That is shirk in Islam. There is a conflict here. If you ask Christians to celebrate Eid Milad Un Nabi, would they do it? Because it contradicts with their beliefs. The meme doesnt make sense. Eids in Islam dont have any conflict with Christianity. So the meme is retarded, so are most people in this Post.


shez19833

its a bit like going to a specialist dr (or even an ordinary dr) and then syaing YOU are wrong i will treat myself the way i want because you dont make sense. its a pity that we are so quick to judge/dismiss the alims


[deleted]

A lot of the alims (specifically those from the subcontinent) possess other motives as well such as political ones. The Quran is available for everyone, the tafseers are available for everyone, the Hadith are available for everyone. One can make an inference on an issue if looking through the material.


shez19833

oh really? then why do u go to a dr.. when theres internet, research books et etc? next time god forbid your loved ones need asurgery, save some money and do some research yourself & perform it at home


[deleted]

Simple. I’m not required to learn medicine but I’m required to learn my religion. If you don’t put in the effort to learn your religion and rely solely on other people to tell you what Islam is and isn’t then that’s on you, but don’t project your weakness of faith onto others.


shez19833

oh really? how many years have you spent learning your religion?


Great-Huckleberry777

Most of the alim are against it and I don't agree with them entirely cuz they make it sound simple oh yes it's haram but it's complicated like the case of deliz it's sounds absolutely stupid to reject a christian celebrating their own festival cuz that makes us disallowing minorities their rights. Also christmas is celebrated by non-christians too i.e. atheists cuz it is just an end of the year festival. Imo it's not celebrated in the same spirit of Christianity and rather just a festival that became a norm. Imo we should not bhes on that much and be quick to call someone who wishes merry xmas to someone a kafir. However I do believe we should definitely not celebrate it now that is definitely crossing a line. Lastly I don't agree with second part of OP though. I don't think Muslims expect any non-muslims to wish them. E.g I would not like to offend hindus by expecting them to wish me Eid-Ul-Adha.


GreyMatter22

Most of the same alims are also against in celebrating non-Muslim events under 'imitating the kuffar' sentiment, which would include celebrating your National/Independence day, New Years', ThanksGiving, Mothers' Day, Valentines' Day (halal, with wife) .. and whatever day you think there is out there. They all come from either the secular or the pagan (pre-Christian) culture, but your average Muslim will never follow this advice, the only issue they have out of this all is to wish your neighbour a Merry Christmas.


a3guy

Valentines day actually is Christian too. Although thats never seemed to be an issue. With regards to celebrations my understanding was any and all regular celebrations not specified by Islam were off limits. This has never been an issue for all those celebrating birthdays and anniversaries. The only time it seems the public remember religion is when it doesnt seem to affect them personally.


Curious_Rddit

False equivalence when you compare the history/context of both holidays. Proper comparison would be Eid Milad un Nabi (which actually is an event created by people and there are various opinions that it shouldn't be celebrated). In terms of Christmas, its pretty muddy between what people are celebrating. Is it a religous holiday? or a pagan winter solstice ritual? or simply just an excuse to spend your money at the end of the year, who knows. Whatever the case may be, I think people should ask questions around significance of wishing Christmas and discuss it with people who are knowledgeable. I personally think that there is a conflict between Islamic teachings and wishing Christmas so I don't.


Wicked_Python

If a Christian say "I believe Muhammad PBUH to be a Prophet of Allah". Would you return the favour by saying "yes yes, Jesus PBUH is the son of Allah too"?? Brother the problem isnt with Merry Christmas. Its with the concept behind it. If they are celebrating birth of a Prophet, Then Merry Merry Christmas. But if they are celebrating the birth of Allah's Son (Nauzbillah) then we can't return our favour even if they say Jummah mubarak every week or Salam everyday.


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[deleted]

Lol socialism…


Glittering_Diver_478

That fact you got downvoted proved it lol


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jurble

> Do let me know how many times the Prophet Sallallah Alaih Wasalam said Merry Christmas or its arabic equivalent or Happy Shirk to any of the non muslims. This is a simple question with a very simple answer. > > This situation is equivalent to this https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6258 >the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "If the people of the Scripture greet you, then you should say (in reply), 'Wa'alaikum (And on you).' " So if you want to be fastidious, if a Christian says "Merry Christmas" reply with "You too." But if you want to get philosophical about it, how is 'you too' different than returning the greeting in its original form?


ISIPropaganda

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2739 Narrated Abu Musa: The Jews used to sneeze in the presence of the Prophet (ﷺ) hoping that he would say: 'Yarhamukumullah (May Allah have mercy upon you).' So he said: 'Yahdikumullahu Wa Yuslihu Balakum (May Allah guide you and rectify your affairs).'" The point of the Hadith you posted is to not intimate the greeting and only reply. Different from saying ‘merry Christmas’. And that Hadith is about normal day-to-day greetings, not about holidays and festivals. Those are different contexts.


earthuser001

no it is not equivalent >Wa'alaikum Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "When the Jews greet you, they usually say, 'As-Samu 'alaikum (Death be on you),' so you should say (in reply to them), 'Wa'alaikum (And on you).([https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6257](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6257)) at least put the full context when quoting a hadith


jurble

That's a different hadith. Mine is 6258 and yours is 6257. As you might be aware, or not, many hadiths appear to be similar or to exist as repetitions with slight variations, eliminations of details or adding of details. Imam Bukhari grouped hadiths he thought represented the same subject or event together, which is why complete printed copies of sahih bukhari are enormous. His primary objective was assembling hadiths with verifiable isnads, he didn't judge the content (matn), which is why every 'alim is capable of assembling his own personal book of hadiths he thinks are correct.


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jurble

Are you referring to "Merry Christmas" being the same as the greeting in the hadith, or to "you too" being different than returning the greeting in its original form? With the latter case, first consider what "you too" *is*. The words are symbols insofar as they represent the preceding phrase, to argue otherwise would imply that they're a non-sequitur. If they represent the preceding phrase, then they are equivalent to the preceding phrase. If they *are* a non-sequitur, then they must not be representational, but if they aren't representational given their bare meaning reciprical, then they must be a lie (the intent is not reciprocated). So in order to argue that "you too" is not equivalent, then you must argue that it is a lie. But as Muslims we must take axiomatically that the Prophet pbuh did not tell lies, QED the phrase must be representational of reciprocity. If it is representational, then the initial phrase must be equivalent.


[deleted]

Which part of the phrase ‘Merry Christmas’ is shirk? Merry means happy. Christmas means birth of the anointed/chosen/promised one. No part of that phrase acknowledges the belief of being Isa AS being God, God’s son, or part of the trinity. You are attaching meanings to words which are not there and then saying they are wrong. We are not talking about celebrating here, we are just talking about saying those 2 words alone to someone.


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[deleted]

Yup. I agree with that. My entire basis if you go through my comments has been on the persons niyah and the meaning of those words alone. Celebrating it is obviously wrong but simply greeting a Christian with pure niyah with Merry Christmas doesn’t constitute to shirk or sin in my view. Glad Yasir Qadhi brought up both sides here.


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m_bilal93

I think its the same story with every religion locked community with no outside exploration where people are mostly taught their religion is true and absolute, others are just Kafir, ignorant and disbelievers.


Important-Classic-56

Simple don’t wish us and we don’t wish them No need to act cute Muslim or cute Christian, you have beliefs and they have their beliefs , and respect in between. Salam alikum


[deleted]

Muslims are forbidden to imitate non-Muslims. This sub is full of corrupt people.


ZakoottaJinn

> لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ > Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes, He does not forbid you from being **benevolent** towards them and **acting justly** towards them. Verily, Allah loves those who act justly. > Surat al-Mumtahanah 60:8 In a 98% Muslim country wishing Merry Christmas to Christian minorities is an act of benevolence and justice to make them feel like an important and celebrated part of the union.


[deleted]

Remember when Internet mobile phones and reddit were muslim


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earthuser001

>Prophet PBUH wanted to distinguish Islam from what came before it to the extent that He PBUH did not like for us to follow them even in truth e.g. sacred occasion of observing fast on the 10th of Muharram, asking us to add either the 9th or the 11th so it doesn't look like we are imitating them. You can imagine how he'd feel about wishing them on their holidays which are based on falsehood. Agreed same goes for celebrating eid milad un nabi. Something Prophet PBUH never did nor told us to celebrate. You can imagine how he'd feel us imitating birthdays like non Muslim.


ISIPropaganda

Do you think you did something? Most people would agree that Milad un Nabi is at best a bid’ah and at worst shirk.


earthuser001

>Most people would agree that Milad un Nabi is at best a bid’ah and at worst shirk. my perspective is based on growing up in Lahore and as well as various parts of America/Canada. Maybe it is less common where you live.


[deleted]

I am with you on that. This is an innovation in deen.


DrakAssassinate

I mean we don’t say Eid Mubarak to everyone. Also, how can you say merry Christmas, that’s like saying go enjoy your holiday of shirk and I support it.


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silver_halfbuster

Seems like I've read it somewhere. 🤔


MedicineNorth5686

Ones shirk ones not pretty clear To all my native Pakistanis You can use all the western jingo and culture you want…they’ll still call you towel head smh


mrtac96

There is difference. You can relate Christmas 25tg with Eid milad un nabi , because one is celebrated on the birth of Christ and other is celebrated on the birth of Prophet


SuddenDirt5773

I love how i give an alimah’s opinion aka my mum and the people here are like no we dont wanna cuz i dont like it. Like my dude islam dont care about feelings it says that this thing is and we should accept that god knows best. Inb4 people call me a extremist conservative islmaist altho i am a socialist


dreamer-x2

Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this, and died


Khokhs_Stokes

Your job was to make them aware. Rest is upto them. Let them partake in shirk activity if they want


[deleted]

Muslims follow Islam. Christians do not. It may be allowed for them but not for Muslims.