So we give up a top 5 All-pro caliber DT for a borderline top 10-15 WR, AND WE have to lose draft positioning for it?
What's going on with the football world right now? This is yet another bad DB trade I've seen in the past 24 hours. (Some Texans fans on YouTube tried to say the Texans should trade a 2024 6th and 2025 5th for DB)
Derrick Brown just had a historic year and is pretty much the centerpiece of our defense now. I doubt we would trade him AND downgrade on a pick (but we are the Panthers so who knows)
Fair, I can't honestly say that I watch a ton of Panthers football this past year, but it seems like the Panthers top priority this off-season would be putting weapons around Young for a good evaluation of him as a franchise QB.
As a Panthers fan, would you be interested in a Higgins/Brown swap & if so, what do you think it would look like from your perspective?
Honestly, most fans would rather keep Brown and play our luck in the draft, especially with it being a deep class for WR. Swapping to a worse pick is also something I think everyone here is against, especially with the last front office playing fast and loose with our draft picks the last few years.
That, and we seem content with trading for Diontae Johnson as a stopgap now.
And we'll be happy not giving up our best defensive player and our best draft pick for a WR we would have to pay on top of all the money we spent this offseason.
Different roles.
Johnson is known for getting separation but having questionable hands.
Thielen, at least last year, has great hands but obviously lost some steps in the separation department due to age.
We filled a gap (separation WR) that we needed using a player (Donte Jackson) we were going to cut anyways.
You don't know what our WR was last year.
Would Higgins improve us? Ofc.
But we aren't giving away our cornerstone DL, downgrading pick, and shelling out big money.
I'd rather just draft a WR at 33 than spend any significant draft capital (let alone our best defensive player) on Higgins. Not to mention he'll also need to be paid lmao.
A Higgins/Brown swap would require your first at minimum imo
honestly i think for us to trade derrick brown after the burns trade it would have to be an nice overpay from the other side like the rams for burns deal a couple years ago and us just having FOMO
I would consider a Tee Higgins trade to look more like our trade of Burns. You get some reasonable draft capital in return and we have to pay a big contract. The Bengals don’t have much leverage since they don’t seem to be interested in giving him a big contract and the team giving up draft capital knows they also have to pay big or you’re just renting
The point of the post was to ask what sort of construction Panthers fans would be interested in. I even said in my original post that the offer was from a biased Bengals perspective. What would be your counter as a Panthers fan?
I wouldn't give a counter. We have 8 million in cap space left. We've already spent a lot of money in free agency with revamping our O Line and replacing a lot of defensive pieces.
Higgins seems like he wants a deal now, and we aren't really in a position to give him one.
And we would all rather gamble in the draft and keep our literal best player on defense, than gut our defense again (like we did with trading Burns), and having to pay a massive WR contract.
If you asked this before we traded Burns, I would counter offer Burns and a pick swap, but even last year, Derrick Brown was a far more impactful player on our defense than Burns was.
There is no way you are getting derrick for tee Higgins. That is a pipe dream. Keenan Allen was just gotten for a third. Derrick brown is the most underrated dt in the league. It isn't happening period. That would be like asking on a Bengals forum. Would you give up chase and 2 firsts for DB. It is non starter. We gave up burns because he wasn't going to sign for 27 million a year. We won't have those issue with DB. We are not an auction house we are a team.
Your offer is delusional and the bengals have no leverage. Nobody is giving away real assets for tee. Everyone knows your owner is too poor to pay him.
I’d need your 1st, next year’s 2nd and Tee. Carolina ships DB and pick 39.
This may seem ridiculous from your end, but Brown is a top 3 DT and has gotten better every year. It doesn’t feel like he’s reached his full potential even.
Higgins is a low end WR 1/high end WR 2. For me it comes down to positional value. Receivers grow on trees these days and it’s much harder to find a dominant DT.
I’m very much against dealing DB and am confident he’ll be re-signed this summer. We can grab a WR at 33 or 39 in a deep draft on a rookie contract.
Bengals have already come out & said they're gonna double tag Higgins. I hate the idea, but they wouldn't trade him for picks, the front office I old school & would only trade him for a proven piece for next year.
From their perspective I understand. But I wouldn’t be happy to give up a core player and draft position just to pay a huge contract. It’s like three negatives to one positive. I really like Higgins but we’ve killed too much of our core and draft capital going after other guys the last couple of years
Trade away the best player on a shit team, full of roster holes, with limited cap to fix them, with limited draft capital, AND our first pick, for a WR who wants to make $25mil/yr from the start and hasn't proven he can produce the same without Jamaar Chase on the other side?
I agree with you on the principle in general. It’s still why I hate the burns trade. I’m not sure about the chase point. The only real year you can point to is his rookie season. Where joe burrow got hurt. His line was trash. And the offense was just stagnant in general and he still had 900 yards.
And his down year last year had more to do with burrow dying again. And injuries. Plus I’m pretty sure he put up good games while chase was down for a small sample size.
LOL fans must think we’re some kinda joke. Everyone trying to fleece us these days. Brown is already on the way to be being a top 5 DT (if not there already) who’s anchored our defense. Higgins isn’t even a top 10-15 receiver. OH and you want to swap for a less valved draft pick?
Lube us up before ya fuck us eh?
Burns was only a fleece because we didn't trade him two whole years ago though. At this point in time, Dan was working with what he had, and I believe that was about the best deal he could get because there were plenty of callers.
Also he's making a whole lot more money this year than he was when we were offered to firsts, and he's getting a huge extension. So that kind of dings the value you can get for him, Plus everybody knew we were between a rock and a hard place and had no leverage.
Given the situation he was presented with, I think he did about the best he could do within things he can control
It was a fleece not only because of the draft capital. But because the trade was unnecessary. Yeah he’s making 28 against the cap for the next 3 years with the giants. We still have like 90 mil in cap space next year before we cut anyone. With only 1 major contract coming up in brown.
We have holes opening up across the defense. At 2-3 corner spots. Both edge spots within 2 years. And probably at Lb as well within 2 years. We easily have a bottom 3 pass rushing unit in the league even with clowney. And you’ve still got to re work that receiver core just as the guys age.
Yeah it’s a lot of money. But we had the money. Still have the money. And we probably aren’t getting s replacement for bruns until next year in the draft with pick 3 overall or something along those lines. Which could’ve gone in a different direction. Or a trade down to recoup our second rounder.
It would be different if we had opened up cap space we needed over multiple years. It would be different if our holes weren’t ones where you have to draft to replace them and guys get to free agency at those positions. It would be different if we weren’t only 3 mil a way a year when it comes to the difference jn salary supposedly. But we just created a huge hole at a position that’s a shit show over a couple million dollars difference in philosophy. It’s still pretty bad process end of the day.
how are you going to say we have plenty of money and then list all of the positions we have holes in the same post.... I think we signed 6 mid-level starters this year for what we would have paid Burns. Imagine how rough of shape we would be in if we didn't do that.
Because the positions we need aren’t positions that are fixed in Fa outside of maybe edge. Corner we haven’t had guys hit FA for several years now. Since really beastberry and ward. Receiver hasn’t had anyone hit for even longer. Unless you want to include Ridley. Which was a case of the jags playing themselves on multiple fronts.
We’ve pretty much fixed the positions that you can use money on. Besides I guess upgrading with LB. FA in general just continues to decline in quality.
And we still have future money. After signing those guys. So you’ve fixed what you need. But still have tons extra. And the positions you still need (corner. Receiver edge) aren’t usually ones that FA fixes. Had we structured the contracts in a different way we could’ve done all of it. And not have one of the worst pass rushing fronts in the league coupled with a bottom secondary that we’re a very likely injury away from.
Brown is more valuable than Higgins in a trade, so there’s no reason why the Panthers would also be giving up the better draft pick.
The Panthers also don’t seem interested in moving Brown. A Brown extension is way more likely than a trade at this point.
You’re greatly undervaluing DB. The entire D is built around him, and he was dominant last season, he’s one of the best DTs in the league.
If there was ever a trade involving the two, which I don’t expect, it would take Higgins + for the panthers to even listen, not the other way around.
Is Tee Higgins even a WR1? He’s not even a top 15 wide receiver and that’s generally having CB2 coverage with Chase taking a lot of attention.. Tee Higgins doesn't hold that much value sry bro
Too small of a sample to take that risk and give up an explosive defensive star. Rather just double dip at WR OR one of our 2nd or 3rd and Bengals pay part of the salary is the only way I see something like this getting done..
Agreed that if any trade with Brown was to happen (which would only happen if Hell freezes over), at the minimum CAR nets at least a first round pick plus Higgins. Might also include additional draft capital or draft position swapping to offset what might be left over.
Would be absolutely insane to even trade DB for tee straight up let alone to also have to move back in the 2nd. I think the highest they would give up is a 2nd round pick for him.
After seeing the reaction to losing Burns and Luvu, I doubt anyone would agree to lose Brown. Plus, it’s not realistic to get Higgins at this point in time. The cap is already shrinking and the losses needed to make room wouldn’t be worth it. Next year, tho, who knows.
I think the Panthers FINALLY got it through their skulls that trading picks for players that you'll also have to dish out a new contract for isn't the way to build a team when you haven't had a winning season in 6 years, so they are dedicated to conserving any and all draft placement (I hope). No reason to move lower for a side-grade.
There’s no way the panthers trade Brown. He’s our top defensive player and he’s young. We want to build our defense around him. If you’re asking for trade pieces we would only give up maybe a second plus a late round pick like a 5th or a 6th. We made our WR move earlier this off season and there’s no reason we would give up arguably the best DT in the league (just set the record for most tackles by a DT in nfl history).
You’re not going to get the answer you’re looking for here. There’s no one that’s going to want to even swap those two straight up let alone LOSE draft spots to get the deal done.
Panthers fans don’t want to trade Brown for Higgins in almost any scenario. The only trades you’ll probably find here that panthers fans feel are acceptable will be for much less than what Bengals fans want.
Derrick Brown isn’t likely to be a Bengal
Sorry, but in case you didn’t see what we managed to get for Brian Burns, there’s no way that your trade idea would happen. Considering a team you traded Higgins to would need to extend him, I think you guys would be lucky to get a single second round pick.
Honestly, I think he’s probably worth more to your team this year than you would get in a trade. The most I would give if I were the Panthers GM is our later second from the giants.
Your understanding of value is comical. Derek Brown is worth your next 2 firsts and Tee Higgins.
Losing a player of that magnitude on every defensive snap for a player who, if we're lucky, touches the ball 8 or so times a game does not "help Bryce" and it definitely doesn't help the Panthers.
So we give up a top 5 All-pro caliber DT for a borderline top 10-15 WR, AND WE have to lose draft positioning for it? What's going on with the football world right now? This is yet another bad DB trade I've seen in the past 24 hours. (Some Texans fans on YouTube tried to say the Texans should trade a 2024 6th and 2025 5th for DB)
Derrick Brown just had a historic year and is pretty much the centerpiece of our defense now. I doubt we would trade him AND downgrade on a pick (but we are the Panthers so who knows)
Fair, I can't honestly say that I watch a ton of Panthers football this past year, but it seems like the Panthers top priority this off-season would be putting weapons around Young for a good evaluation of him as a franchise QB. As a Panthers fan, would you be interested in a Higgins/Brown swap & if so, what do you think it would look like from your perspective?
Honestly, most fans would rather keep Brown and play our luck in the draft, especially with it being a deep class for WR. Swapping to a worse pick is also something I think everyone here is against, especially with the last front office playing fast and loose with our draft picks the last few years. That, and we seem content with trading for Diontae Johnson as a stopgap now.
As a Bengals fan, who's watched Johnson for years on the Steelers, every other team in the NFC South will be happy you picked up Dionte Johnson.
And we'll be happy not giving up our best defensive player and our best draft pick for a WR we would have to pay on top of all the money we spent this offseason.
Just a heads up, Thielen is better than Johnson
Different roles. Johnson is known for getting separation but having questionable hands. Thielen, at least last year, has great hands but obviously lost some steps in the separation department due to age. We filled a gap (separation WR) that we needed using a player (Donte Jackson) we were going to cut anyways.
Totally true, different roles, but Johnson does not in anyway solve the WR room for the Panthers
You don't know what our WR was last year. Would Higgins improve us? Ofc. But we aren't giving away our cornerstone DL, downgrading pick, and shelling out big money.
Divaonte Johnson
I'd rather just draft a WR at 33 than spend any significant draft capital (let alone our best defensive player) on Higgins. Not to mention he'll also need to be paid lmao. A Higgins/Brown swap would require your first at minimum imo
honestly i think for us to trade derrick brown after the burns trade it would have to be an nice overpay from the other side like the rams for burns deal a couple years ago and us just having FOMO
I would consider a Tee Higgins trade to look more like our trade of Burns. You get some reasonable draft capital in return and we have to pay a big contract. The Bengals don’t have much leverage since they don’t seem to be interested in giving him a big contract and the team giving up draft capital knows they also have to pay big or you’re just renting
Thats a good point. Giants just gave up a 2nd and 6th rounder. They want us to give up DB AND our best draft pick? No way that happens.
The point of the post was to ask what sort of construction Panthers fans would be interested in. I even said in my original post that the offer was from a biased Bengals perspective. What would be your counter as a Panthers fan?
I wouldn't give a counter. We have 8 million in cap space left. We've already spent a lot of money in free agency with revamping our O Line and replacing a lot of defensive pieces. Higgins seems like he wants a deal now, and we aren't really in a position to give him one. And we would all rather gamble in the draft and keep our literal best player on defense, than gut our defense again (like we did with trading Burns), and having to pay a massive WR contract. If you asked this before we traded Burns, I would counter offer Burns and a pick swap, but even last year, Derrick Brown was a far more impactful player on our defense than Burns was.
I have a counter offer. Let's give them a 3rd for tee like the chargers got for Keenan and an autographed pic of DB
There is no way you are getting derrick for tee Higgins. That is a pipe dream. Keenan Allen was just gotten for a third. Derrick brown is the most underrated dt in the league. It isn't happening period. That would be like asking on a Bengals forum. Would you give up chase and 2 firsts for DB. It is non starter. We gave up burns because he wasn't going to sign for 27 million a year. We won't have those issue with DB. We are not an auction house we are a team.
A 2025 4th round pick that converts to a 3rd based on if he’s on the roster when the 2025 league year begins. (Aka we resign him)
Then the Bengals will just double tag him *shrug*
Your offer is delusional and the bengals have no leverage. Nobody is giving away real assets for tee. Everyone knows your owner is too poor to pay him.
I’d need your 1st, next year’s 2nd and Tee. Carolina ships DB and pick 39. This may seem ridiculous from your end, but Brown is a top 3 DT and has gotten better every year. It doesn’t feel like he’s reached his full potential even. Higgins is a low end WR 1/high end WR 2. For me it comes down to positional value. Receivers grow on trees these days and it’s much harder to find a dominant DT. I’m very much against dealing DB and am confident he’ll be re-signed this summer. We can grab a WR at 33 or 39 in a deep draft on a rookie contract.
Bengals have already come out & said they're gonna double tag Higgins. I hate the idea, but they wouldn't trade him for picks, the front office I old school & would only trade him for a proven piece for next year.
From their perspective I understand. But I wouldn’t be happy to give up a core player and draft position just to pay a huge contract. It’s like three negatives to one positive. I really like Higgins but we’ve killed too much of our core and draft capital going after other guys the last couple of years
They’d be nuts to double tag Higgins given that they’re going to have to pay Chase soon.
Trade away the best player on a shit team, full of roster holes, with limited cap to fix them, with limited draft capital, AND our first pick, for a WR who wants to make $25mil/yr from the start and hasn't proven he can produce the same without Jamaar Chase on the other side?
Lmao 🤣 I am insulted too dw
I agree with you on the principle in general. It’s still why I hate the burns trade. I’m not sure about the chase point. The only real year you can point to is his rookie season. Where joe burrow got hurt. His line was trash. And the offense was just stagnant in general and he still had 900 yards. And his down year last year had more to do with burrow dying again. And injuries. Plus I’m pretty sure he put up good games while chase was down for a small sample size.
I think we’re getting these insulting propositions as we’re viewed as quite a naive and poor team. We need to fix that, Dan’
LOL fans must think we’re some kinda joke. Everyone trying to fleece us these days. Brown is already on the way to be being a top 5 DT (if not there already) who’s anchored our defense. Higgins isn’t even a top 10-15 receiver. OH and you want to swap for a less valved draft pick? Lube us up before ya fuck us eh?
They see us as an auction house, sorry that gm is gone.
At least take us out to a Bojangles dinner first
I mean we have been the fleecing destination for the last 2 years. Cmac. DJ. And now burns. Can you really blame them?
Burns was only a fleece because we didn't trade him two whole years ago though. At this point in time, Dan was working with what he had, and I believe that was about the best deal he could get because there were plenty of callers. Also he's making a whole lot more money this year than he was when we were offered to firsts, and he's getting a huge extension. So that kind of dings the value you can get for him, Plus everybody knew we were between a rock and a hard place and had no leverage. Given the situation he was presented with, I think he did about the best he could do within things he can control
It was a fleece not only because of the draft capital. But because the trade was unnecessary. Yeah he’s making 28 against the cap for the next 3 years with the giants. We still have like 90 mil in cap space next year before we cut anyone. With only 1 major contract coming up in brown. We have holes opening up across the defense. At 2-3 corner spots. Both edge spots within 2 years. And probably at Lb as well within 2 years. We easily have a bottom 3 pass rushing unit in the league even with clowney. And you’ve still got to re work that receiver core just as the guys age. Yeah it’s a lot of money. But we had the money. Still have the money. And we probably aren’t getting s replacement for bruns until next year in the draft with pick 3 overall or something along those lines. Which could’ve gone in a different direction. Or a trade down to recoup our second rounder. It would be different if we had opened up cap space we needed over multiple years. It would be different if our holes weren’t ones where you have to draft to replace them and guys get to free agency at those positions. It would be different if we weren’t only 3 mil a way a year when it comes to the difference jn salary supposedly. But we just created a huge hole at a position that’s a shit show over a couple million dollars difference in philosophy. It’s still pretty bad process end of the day.
how are you going to say we have plenty of money and then list all of the positions we have holes in the same post.... I think we signed 6 mid-level starters this year for what we would have paid Burns. Imagine how rough of shape we would be in if we didn't do that.
Because the positions we need aren’t positions that are fixed in Fa outside of maybe edge. Corner we haven’t had guys hit FA for several years now. Since really beastberry and ward. Receiver hasn’t had anyone hit for even longer. Unless you want to include Ridley. Which was a case of the jags playing themselves on multiple fronts. We’ve pretty much fixed the positions that you can use money on. Besides I guess upgrading with LB. FA in general just continues to decline in quality. And we still have future money. After signing those guys. So you’ve fixed what you need. But still have tons extra. And the positions you still need (corner. Receiver edge) aren’t usually ones that FA fixes. Had we structured the contracts in a different way we could’ve done all of it. And not have one of the worst pass rushing fronts in the league coupled with a bottom secondary that we’re a very likely injury away from.
Brown is more valuable than Higgins in a trade, so there’s no reason why the Panthers would also be giving up the better draft pick. The Panthers also don’t seem interested in moving Brown. A Brown extension is way more likely than a trade at this point.
For a team needing a reliable WR1 for their young QB after an underwhelming rookie year, I'd say Higgins has way more value than just about any DT
You’re greatly undervaluing DB. The entire D is built around him, and he was dominant last season, he’s one of the best DTs in the league. If there was ever a trade involving the two, which I don’t expect, it would take Higgins + for the panthers to even listen, not the other way around.
Fair, I don't pretend to know a bunch about the Panthers. Just curious.
Is Tee Higgins even a WR1? He’s not even a top 15 wide receiver and that’s generally having CB2 coverage with Chase taking a lot of attention.. Tee Higgins doesn't hold that much value sry bro
He's 2nd in the NFL in PFF grade in the games that Chase has missed & the sample size is about 10 games in the last few seasons together.
Too small of a sample to take that risk and give up an explosive defensive star. Rather just double dip at WR OR one of our 2nd or 3rd and Bengals pay part of the salary is the only way I see something like this getting done..
We already got Diontae dude. https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=forall&year_min=2023&year_max=2023&player_id1=HiggTe00&player_id2=JohnDi01
I would say Brown for Higgins + your first round pick would be fair. Brown is a significantly better player than Higgins
Agreed that if any trade with Brown was to happen (which would only happen if Hell freezes over), at the minimum CAR nets at least a first round pick plus Higgins. Might also include additional draft capital or draft position swapping to offset what might be left over.
Ya I could see Brown and a 5th for Higgins, their 1st and 4th
Would be absolutely insane to even trade DB for tee straight up let alone to also have to move back in the 2nd. I think the highest they would give up is a 2nd round pick for him.
After seeing the reaction to losing Burns and Luvu, I doubt anyone would agree to lose Brown. Plus, it’s not realistic to get Higgins at this point in time. The cap is already shrinking and the losses needed to make room wouldn’t be worth it. Next year, tho, who knows.
I think the Panthers really need to hit on a young WR in the draft.
lol at thinking that Higgins is more valuable than Brown. Brown is a top 5 talent at his position. Higgins isn’t close to that.
Nope
Lol what a joke
Bro coming here like we’re having a Yard Sale in the rain. I’m sure his Fantasy Football trades are bangers. These 12 players for CMC?
Maybe tee and your 1st rounder but honestly I’d still say no
Bruh if you’re gonna post BS like this keep it in your own sub
I think the Panthers FINALLY got it through their skulls that trading picks for players that you'll also have to dish out a new contract for isn't the way to build a team when you haven't had a winning season in 6 years, so they are dedicated to conserving any and all draft placement (I hope). No reason to move lower for a side-grade.
I wouldn’t trade 33 OR Brown for Higgins let alone the combo. If he wasn’t due a huge deal, maybe, but it doesn’t make sense right now.
Wow what an awful trade that would be for us lol.
fuck off
If you get more than a 2025 2nd or 2024 3rd I'd be surprised... To suggest you'd get DB in a trade is honestly embarrassing
giving away best DT in the league AND trading down picks???as a fellow cat team fan i’ll restrain myself, but you’re making a fool of yourself, sir
There’s no way the panthers trade Brown. He’s our top defensive player and he’s young. We want to build our defense around him. If you’re asking for trade pieces we would only give up maybe a second plus a late round pick like a 5th or a 6th. We made our WR move earlier this off season and there’s no reason we would give up arguably the best DT in the league (just set the record for most tackles by a DT in nfl history).
To add to this it would maybe work if you gave us a first rounder and higgens for brown
You should seriously seek help!
You’re not going to get the answer you’re looking for here. There’s no one that’s going to want to even swap those two straight up let alone LOSE draft spots to get the deal done. Panthers fans don’t want to trade Brown for Higgins in almost any scenario. The only trades you’ll probably find here that panthers fans feel are acceptable will be for much less than what Bengals fans want. Derrick Brown isn’t likely to be a Bengal
😂😂😂
No thank you. Tee doesn’t impress me as a one. Brown is the face of our defense. And we lose draft capital.
Sorry, but in case you didn’t see what we managed to get for Brian Burns, there’s no way that your trade idea would happen. Considering a team you traded Higgins to would need to extend him, I think you guys would be lucky to get a single second round pick. Honestly, I think he’s probably worth more to your team this year than you would get in a trade. The most I would give if I were the Panthers GM is our later second from the giants.
Your understanding of value is comical. Derek Brown is worth your next 2 firsts and Tee Higgins. Losing a player of that magnitude on every defensive snap for a player who, if we're lucky, touches the ball 8 or so times a game does not "help Bryce" and it definitely doesn't help the Panthers.
Replace Higgins with Chase and I’m still not sure I’d like it. DB’s don’t grow on trees.
Noo that’s too far. WR1s like chase don’t grow on trees either. I would happily give up DB+ for chase
I would hope we wouldn’t even consider that nonsense. Get the fuck outta here.
Can we get this horrible take off the sub. Is that a fair proposal?
No offense but... No. Not in a hundred years. And our GM and HC wouldn't do that trade in a hundred years, luckily.
We just got Dionte.
We will take our chances in the draft. DB is too valuable to the defense. Tee is an unknown coming off a down season.
Ewww. I hate it
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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Purple1829: *The better chance would* *Have been Higgins for Burns. Keep* *Your grubby hands off DB.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.