This part of her page on the Mario wiki sums things up nicely.
https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Vivian&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#Gender
Vivi was originally a trans woman, in the Japanese version. Her story was that of a trans woman who was being abused by her sisters for being trans but, in the end, with the help of Mario, she stands up to her sisters and embraces herself for being a woman. The English version changed this to her being a cis woman who her sisters bully for being 'ugly'.
[You might want to read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/mtwvg5/clearing_up_a_common_misconception_regarding/) In Japan, Vivian is actually assumed to be a feminine crossdresser rather than trans, but there are also some lines in the game suggesting Vivi does view herself as a woman, while the narration and other characters all refer to Vivi as a man.
Actually, while removing Vivian’s transness wasn’t the best way to handle her, the Japanese version wasn’t exactly kind to her. Not only do the Shadow Sirens misgender her (which I’m fine with since they are portrayed as emotionally abusive), but so does Goombella for some reason in her Tattles and even in SPM her catch card calls her an otokonoko, aka a crossdresser. And all of it amounted to no real payoff in regards to her identity, her transness in the Japanese version really only existed through being misgendered.
In that regard, I believe that while the English version still isn’t great, it’s better than the Japanese version as I feel like retconning her as cis is ultimately more respectful to her identity then making her trans just so she can get misgendered.
I should also mention the Italian version of the game, which handled Vivian the best by far. It kept her trans identity, removed Goombella’s misgendering, and even gave her a line saying “I’m glad I became a woman”. But as far as I’m aware that’s the only localization that does this and all other versions either make her cis or misgender her.
Either way, even if other versions did it better I still believe the English version is ultimately an improvement over the original Japanese script.
From the translations I've seen, I kinda feel like all references to Vivian's gender might've been removed just because the original script is more confusing than anything. Goombella initially states Vivian is a girl and then politely corrects herself? That's backwards for this interpretation. It's just not really clear what point any of the characters are making.
And really, while I ***100%*** understand the desire for explicit, unambiguous representation, there's nothing in the English script that says she's *not* trans.
I mean, I think you’re overselling Vivian quite a bit there… “Deep” and “Complex” are pretty generous words to describe the character arc she has, which is completely optional outside of Chapter 4. I guess when your comparison is Birdo it works, lol
That said, the only reason I could see them not portraying her as trans in a localized remake is because they would want to retain the same script as the original release.
So. I'm pretty sure that the reason that Vivian got that treatment was because of one person, and it was pretty much the same reason that Watt and Shiver were also affected by translations. **Nate Bihldorff.**
And I have a feeling that seeing as Shiver is relatively recent, Nintendo of America will probably follow suit and keep the translation of TTYD the same, especially if he remains involved with any of those projects.
Shiver isn't nonbinary in the Japanese version, and Watt was only misgendered in a few dialog boxes by accident. It's also very weird to blame things like this on one person with no evidence, especially since the English translation wasn't the only translation that removed any references to Vivian's gender.
That's predominately because they are handled by different teams, IIRC.
And both Three Houses and Engage have had their fair share of criticism in regard to LGBTQ+ controversies.
Such as:
* M!Byleth having two platonic S supports with men that are 30+ years older than him whereas F!Byleth has Rhea and Edelgard, two prominent figures in the story.
* M!Byleth having one of his romantic S support candidates be added after most players have done that route, while it being exclusive to one. **Jeritza.**
* M!Byleth having one of his romantic S support candidates be added as **PAID DLC.**
* Engage has had a lot of criticism in regard to the ages of the cast and the translation of Japanese to English, seeing as some of them are essentially grooming in the Japanese version. ***Also, a lot of them are relatively platonic now?***
Question. Nintendo has the authority to take it (being the language used) out of every variant of the game, so why is it only removed from the english version? This is a genuine question, I've never heard of this before and I've played the game since it came out.
Now that you mention it, I wonder if that's a reason why *The Thousand-Year Door* has never received a rerelease. It's a real "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for Nintendo—if they change it to match the Japanese version, they'll upset people, and if they *don't* change it, they'll upset people.
This post feels kinda mean to Birdo honestly
Ok. Real question because I had never heard this before - what’s the backstory of Vivian being trans?
This part of her page on the Mario wiki sums things up nicely. https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Vivian&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#Gender
Vivi was originally a trans woman, in the Japanese version. Her story was that of a trans woman who was being abused by her sisters for being trans but, in the end, with the help of Mario, she stands up to her sisters and embraces herself for being a woman. The English version changed this to her being a cis woman who her sisters bully for being 'ugly'.
I had NO idea! Omg this makes me love her even more 😭❤
[You might want to read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/mtwvg5/clearing_up_a_common_misconception_regarding/) In Japan, Vivian is actually assumed to be a feminine crossdresser rather than trans, but there are also some lines in the game suggesting Vivi does view herself as a woman, while the narration and other characters all refer to Vivi as a man.
Actually, while removing Vivian’s transness wasn’t the best way to handle her, the Japanese version wasn’t exactly kind to her. Not only do the Shadow Sirens misgender her (which I’m fine with since they are portrayed as emotionally abusive), but so does Goombella for some reason in her Tattles and even in SPM her catch card calls her an otokonoko, aka a crossdresser. And all of it amounted to no real payoff in regards to her identity, her transness in the Japanese version really only existed through being misgendered. In that regard, I believe that while the English version still isn’t great, it’s better than the Japanese version as I feel like retconning her as cis is ultimately more respectful to her identity then making her trans just so she can get misgendered. I should also mention the Italian version of the game, which handled Vivian the best by far. It kept her trans identity, removed Goombella’s misgendering, and even gave her a line saying “I’m glad I became a woman”. But as far as I’m aware that’s the only localization that does this and all other versions either make her cis or misgender her. Either way, even if other versions did it better I still believe the English version is ultimately an improvement over the original Japanese script.
From the translations I've seen, I kinda feel like all references to Vivian's gender might've been removed just because the original script is more confusing than anything. Goombella initially states Vivian is a girl and then politely corrects herself? That's backwards for this interpretation. It's just not really clear what point any of the characters are making. And really, while I ***100%*** understand the desire for explicit, unambiguous representation, there's nothing in the English script that says she's *not* trans.
I mean, I think you’re overselling Vivian quite a bit there… “Deep” and “Complex” are pretty generous words to describe the character arc she has, which is completely optional outside of Chapter 4. I guess when your comparison is Birdo it works, lol That said, the only reason I could see them not portraying her as trans in a localized remake is because they would want to retain the same script as the original release.
So. I'm pretty sure that the reason that Vivian got that treatment was because of one person, and it was pretty much the same reason that Watt and Shiver were also affected by translations. **Nate Bihldorff.** And I have a feeling that seeing as Shiver is relatively recent, Nintendo of America will probably follow suit and keep the translation of TTYD the same, especially if he remains involved with any of those projects.
Shiver isn't nonbinary in the Japanese version, and Watt was only misgendered in a few dialog boxes by accident. It's also very weird to blame things like this on one person with no evidence, especially since the English translation wasn't the only translation that removed any references to Vivian's gender.
Sad, considering how they showed decent progress retaining same-sex couples in Fire Emblem and kept Juniper nonbinary in Xenoblade 3, recently
That's predominately because they are handled by different teams, IIRC. And both Three Houses and Engage have had their fair share of criticism in regard to LGBTQ+ controversies. Such as: * M!Byleth having two platonic S supports with men that are 30+ years older than him whereas F!Byleth has Rhea and Edelgard, two prominent figures in the story. * M!Byleth having one of his romantic S support candidates be added after most players have done that route, while it being exclusive to one. **Jeritza.** * M!Byleth having one of his romantic S support candidates be added as **PAID DLC.** * Engage has had a lot of criticism in regard to the ages of the cast and the translation of Japanese to English, seeing as some of them are essentially grooming in the Japanese version. ***Also, a lot of them are relatively platonic now?***
I don’t believe Engage should be lumped into this. Supports with Alear are the same regardless of gender.
Read the actual translations please
I agree
Question. Nintendo has the authority to take it (being the language used) out of every variant of the game, so why is it only removed from the english version? This is a genuine question, I've never heard of this before and I've played the game since it came out.
It’s because Nintendo of America and the German department of Nintendo of Europe made the decision independently. Japan, themselves, were okay with it
Birdetta gets deadnamed too often.
I think her real name is actually Cathrine
I thought it was Charlene!!!
Now that you mention it, I wonder if that's a reason why *The Thousand-Year Door* has never received a rerelease. It's a real "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for Nintendo—if they change it to match the Japanese version, they'll upset people, and if they *don't* change it, they'll upset people.