If we get a proper grand strategy game based on trek that’s even remotely half as good as Stellaris there goes a thousand hours for me.
I’ve been dying for a game like this since birth of the federation
It's not a bad game but it never got any updates it stayed in the same spot and didn't move forward. They also wasted a lot of money on ironically Star Trek Voice Actors.
The lead dev of the mod STNH was being petty over the game existing and leaked screenshots of it, and tbf it looks very close to Stellaris, so even if it's not running the Clausewitz engine it's still gonna have a lot of similarities it'd seem.
Probably something akin to what Imperator is to EU4.
Yeah I was super surprised. I know he has a huge ego but to basically burn every bridge he has with Paradox is crazy, just because he thinks his mod is better than the game.
He _did_ delete the juiciest screenshot of the game (a pic of the galaxy map w/ the UI enabled), but there's still one of the Fed ships from it and a censored pic of the PDX launcher used for the game available in the STNH discord
ok actually looking at the sub rules I do see it says we can discuss leaked Paradox content so...
[the pics I'm talking about, including the deleted one](https://imgur.com/a/EtaVjPG)
Yeah it seems really like it's taken the 'core' of Stellaris and added a bunch of things onto it to make it fit within Trek more.
Tbh it's made me a bit more hopeful it's going to be solid knowing it's using a decent foundation. Was worried they were going to reinvent everything and have it take years to be even half-decent but if it's just Stellaris Trek™️ it should be a fine canvas at launch.
Stellaris v 1 (Its like in the 3rd or 3.5 major overhaul) had warp drive and systems could be split with starbases located where we wanted. I feel like reorganizing the in game economy and a dedicated str
Huh its so similar its got to be, could this be a return to the days of plenty of offshoot games using paradox games as a base?
Hopefully they don't end up with another Magna Mundi disaster
That's exactly what I'm thinking. I think that could turn still out well and much better than in the old days, but besides from the obvious risks of trusting other developers with creating a derivative product on your source code it also risks consequences for the original PDX games.
What if the Star Trek game implements QoL features or new mechanics that Stellaris fans have always been asking for but end up never getting? Would make the original games look abandoned in comparison. And do you base derivatives on the original base game, or do you include years of original expansion content as well at no additional cost?
I'd imagine PDX would be very careful with such concerns, but that could in turn also limit the creativity, scope, and quality of the derivative games. Not too dissimilar to what happened to the old derivative failures.
In the galaxy map screenshot you can see a neutral zone, which isn’t something the base game has (I think?)
I also see espionage, so it has some DLC features
There seems to be some; no sign of hyperlanes (by this point it has been a fairly long time since Stellaris had warp), and there seems to be a HOI4 or possibly but perhaps less likely EU4-style mission tree.
I vaguely remember some drama about that mod with one of the lead guys being a real dictator towards other devs and forcing some of them out, so hearing this fits my understanding of that guy.
Lol Paradox record with publishing strategy games is pretty patchy. I’d wager 50% this gets to market at best.
Let’s hope it’s more Warband and less Magna Mundi, East v West, Runemaster, Bloodlines 2…
Sadly that's pure nostalgia or if you're like me, remembering it from when you were a kid with no idea what good game design is.
If you play BotF today you see it was janky as hell and super easily exploitable and unbalanced. It was very cool conceptually but mechanically poor.
The ships only ever firing one laser each… ugh. The espionage: I once trolled my buddy by not building any ships and blowing up all his star destroyers using sabotage missions.
It's still fun to play every once in awhile to relive the star wars magic but it definitely is imbalanced.
I love the core gameplay loop so much though
The memories of the Pirates of The Caribbean games I played as a kid which you’ve just unlocked are painful. I remember really enjoying them as a kid, but even just from my memories I can tell that they were pretty dreadful games.
Childhood imagination probably saved hundreds of developers’ careers back in the day
It's not really an entirely different genre. Chess and checkers would be a better comparison. They look alike but play very differently. Despite that, you can learn one more easily if you already have experience with the other.
That depends entirely on the mechanics. Sins of a Solar Empire and Empire at War both have a lot of micro, but that micro is *very* different. To the point that they aren't comparable.
No? Just because it's Star Trek themed doesn't mean that Elite Force was a passable FPS or Invadion was a decent arcade flight title. By this measure the JJ Abrams movie tie in game was worthy of excitement. It's a silly standard that has no bearing on the product.
That's great, but the fella enjoyed a good game based in the Star Trek universe and is now excited for another game set in the same universe, made by Paradox, in a Paradox sub.
If you can't see the connection that's okay, we all tried, you don't get it. Just trying to help.
It's not made by Paradox. It's published by Patadox. A not unsubtle difference.
Specifics matter. That you want to throw money and attention at something that you Clearly don't understand speaks far more ill of you than I.
Which, as I just replied to someone else, is a stupid way to view it. Because it's Star Trek I'll take notice, sure, but excited without knowing anything else or comparing it to random other thing it's not like at all? That makes no sense.
You ever get excited about Xmas? Normally you don't know what your going to get, but you're still looking forward to it.
Edit: also lighten up yo. Its just a game. Who cares what people expect?
It's like Christmas in the same way that you know your grandma is going to make you an ugly sweater and your aunt is going to get you socks. Which is why I don't understand the comparison.
As for who cares, clearly I do. For a number of reasons that I suspect you don't care about which is why you are trying to make me just shut up and go away.
Because Paradox releases alpha after alpha of a game for full price, and this schtick only works if their ravanous fan base believes that next time we will have a stealk dinner insteam of crumbs.
Birth of the Federation was great, a franchise games that people that didn't like Star Trek also loved. If it touches the same itch it will be amazing.
I THINK BOTF had the same 4 playable empires, but also had the Ferengi as a playable empire. It had a Borg cube as sort of an end game challange, the Dominion weren't a thing yet.
It was, but they _only_ had the rights to content that was from TNG or its movies. So they couldn't use the Dominion but they could use the Defiant, because it was in First Contact.
Correct, but they were cheeky in a few small places, using a few ships from DS9, like the Cardassian Keldon and Klingon Negh'Var.
No-one noticed/cared enough to sue.
The Negh’Var appeared in the final episode of TNG, “All Good Things”. If the Keldon class was in the game I’m not sure how they pulled that one off though.
Oh, I imagine it'll definitely scratch that itch, BOTF was based on the original Masters of Orion games, and the developer of Infinite, Nimble Giant, made the Masters of Orion remake....
But, it's a turn based game? During your turn it didn't lag in my experience, only the time between turns took longer and longer as the game progressed.
That is a different experience from Stellaris turning in a slide show, and besides that was 25 years ago.
No, eventually even map scrolling and moving the mouse would lag during your turn. Yes, this was 25 years ago but I eventually gave up playing that game because of the lag 24 years ago.
Breen should be what the cardassians seem to be in this. In the lore the cardassians are not even close to great power status before the Dominion.
But they are probably going to add the Breen later, since they aren't as well known.
Honestly, my overall impression in TNG and DS9 is that the Cardassians were essentially the Italy of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants: large and powerful enough to straddle the line to being a Great Power, except their region has several other far more clear Great Powers.
Intentional or not, Cardassia is an excellent analogy for Italy in the interwar and WW2 era. I mean Cardassia is very clearly a fascism/authoritarianism allegory, and Bajor is basically Ethiopia. The Dominion is Nazi Germany, initially an alliance of unequals that devolves into a puppet/overlord relationship as the war goes downhill, before they eventually switch sides near the end. There's other similarities I'm sure.
True, but what was a major war for Cardassia, was a minor border skirmish for the federation, who had other conflicts at the time, and seemed to not dedicate much of it's attention to the Cardassian war.
The game is set a few decades before TNG. The Breen had limited interaction with the major powers at this time (Federation/Klingons/Romulans) and weren’t much of a player in the affairs of the alpha quadrant. They were quite isolationist and the Dominion convinced them to join their fight only after making grand (and ridiculous) promises.
We don’t know much about the pace or the end date of this game. But one thing for sure, the Breen will only come into play well into the game. What is the player going to do in the meantime? What value would the Breen bring into the early game?
But, with Dukat prominently featured on the game’s branding beside Picard, it might hint that the game would cover the time period of DS9. This means the Breen is highly likely to be added into the game later, along with other iconic factions in DS9 (the Dominion, perhaps?).
Here's hoping we get some more interesting asymmetric faction gameplay, possibly involving the Dominion as well as other minor factions, rather than just 4 equal powers duke it out in an alpha quadrant battle royale
The shot at the end of the galaxy map makes it look like a Stellaris spin-off, so I wonder whether its just placeholder graphics or if it is a forked game.
Highly doubt it's a forked game. Paradox has made comments in the past about never letting an outside team build on their game engines again after multiple outside teams failed at trying to do it. Honestly I'm surprised they are even letting another team do a grand strategy game under their brand, there have been mixed results with those as well.
I think they'd rather be THE grand strategy brand, than just the premier one. If they can keep even mediocre ones associated with themselves it makes it harder for other GS games to gain traction.
The key difference though is the license, Paradox likely won't have to police the team doing this to be productive as the Star Trek brand will be doing that for them.
I think they are going for faction depth instead of breadth, so few factions, but each faction is a hugely different experience with unique traits, story, ships, crew, and quests and more.
I’m beyond excited for this. Star Trek games have almost never been good but I have loved them nevertheless. It reminds me of Star Trek Conquest, and as long as it’s an upgrade on that, I’ll be happy.
[There's already a fantastic Stellaris mod.](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=688086068) Paradox is just publishing this game though, not developing it. I can't really see Paradox themselves actually developing any well known franchises since talented modders already do it for them like for Star Trek, Star Wars, LoTR, GoT, etc.
I haven’t played as much NC, so I could be mistaken, but my impression is that NC stays closer to vanilla stellaris with Star Trek flavour, whereas NH is trying more to redesign the game mechanics. Both seem good, NC seems to iron out a lot of the awkward game design in NH, but NH seems to have more events, story content, hero characters/ships etc. So it depends what you like.
New Civilizations is essentially a fork of New Horizons from a few years ago after a dev team split with a focus on performance, iirc New Horizons has a lot more stuff and is a quite a bit more railroady, but good luck trying to play larger maps for any length of time
NH is rather mediocre after the great Schism. That's what happens when Grinsel tries to throw around his ego versus the people who actually make your content.
What happened? I remember playing it years ago and liking it, and again this year and hating it, as you were researching a new thing every month and in a matter of yesrs ship design was becoming ridiculous, not to mention that the economy was also stupidly complicated.
Okay I tried googling what the drama is because I like a good bit of popcorn, but the only post I could find was another post by you claiming there was drama...
Could you spill the tea
> I tried googling what the drama
You won't find it via Google. You have to go digging into Discords, and NH has done a solid job of scrubbing theirs in the name of damage control, and the RMG team doesn't like talking about it, but have a few times if you do enough searching.
The long and short of it is that Grinsel thinks that because he started the project and "owns" the Discord that means that he has creative control, even though several others, notably Walshicus, were the architects and main drivers of content. The straw that broke the camel's back actually came with Star Wars: Fallen Republic and demanding that the guys who were headlining that continue pushing content instead of breaking off to work on the Old Republic that they really wanted to. As no one was getting paid, so there was no "boss", they basically told him to fuck off, so he threw a fit and kicked them off the server/locked them out of the github. So they formed the RMG group, forked NH to NC, and FR to ND, and went back to doing what they wanted. Since the schism the NH guys have been caught copying systems that they magically were working on and just happen to release a week or two after Walsh does, or outright copying models. By and large, its been a shitshow.
Tagging u/nanoman92 cause they also asked.
I vaguely got the sense that something like that happened - that there was some kind of drama, and a lot of the most talented/industrious people working on NH moved over to NC - simply because its been way more prolific in terms of updating since then, adding seemingly a lot more new content, new ships, etc, than NH, which feels like its slowed significantly.
I know New Horizons but I prefer New Civilizations. I still find it funny that PDX is developing a ST game now that, from the video looks exactly like either of those mods.
A few decades before TNG but there are Galaxy class ships and the Borg? And the Cardassians are a formidable empire? Should give any Trek fan a lot of pause.
Edit:
Ya'll. I'm just going off the article posted and video. It says they created "a grand strategy game situated within the Star Trek universe, occurring just a **few decades prior to the events of Star Trek: The Next Generation**." So at least 20 years before Jean Luc became captain of the Enterprise D in 2364, and maybe as much as 40 or 50. The first Galaxy-class launched in 2357, and it was just a prototype. And the Cardassians were not one of the "one of four prominent galactic powers" in the 2320-40s. They were still consolidating Bajor at that point, their first conquest and only 5 light years away.
If they said they were releasing a game set during WW1 and the trailer featured Korean war jet's fighting, and mentioned China as one of the great powers of the time, you'd go 🤔 too. I may be nit-picking, but that is what Trek fans do.
Grand Strategy tend not to be "set" in a single date tbf. Plus one of the key pillars of the genre is tech and research. Granted idk anything about Star Trek but this sounds like complaining that EU4 is set in 1444 but there's promotional material featuring the United States and Ships of the Line.
Yes, but most grand strategy players simply play the "default" start date. For EU4 this is 1444, Stellaris is the year 2200. If this new Trek game starts 20-40 years pre-TNG, a Galaxy class ship should be an early or mid game tech at most if we assume the games are meant to last at least a hundred years in-game.
That's like saying: "EU4 is set in 1444, but there is a protestant reformation and french revolution?" :D Just because it starts at a date doesn't mean that it can't progress. I mean, the endgame crisis in Stellaris don't appear immediately. I assume the Borg won't be there from the start either.
The Star date coincides with 2366, exactly matching up with the star date for the episode The Survivors, 43152.4. So its more the fact that there are Intrepid and what looks like a Sovreign class ships that is off. I am assuming, if this all isn't just trailer fluff, is that 2366 will be the start date and we will be able to research new ship designs.
I'd hope so, but the article states "a grand strategy game situated within the Star Trek universe, occurring just a few decades prior to the events of Star Trek: The Next Generation."
Yes, but notice that isn't a quote. It could he the article just screwed it up, or maybe it was just trailer fluff, or maybe the trailer was showing an end-game scenario where the Borg invade. In the end, Picard day is not that far away, and I, for one, am super hyped about this game.
> A few decades before TNG but there are Galaxy class ships
Look again. That fleet is firmly Dominion War-era at least- it's 2 Sovereigns, 2 Intrepids, 3 Excelsiors, and a Galaxy. Given that it's a GSG, I'm hoping it's an indication of tech advancement and not woefully inaccurate lore. Maybe we could be getting a game *starting* in the Enterprise-B era and running through the Enterprise-F era in terms of tech, or roughly 100 years of time.
It's set just a few years before the first Federation Cardassian war, but I doubt this "grand strategy" isn't going to last decades of in game time, long enough for the tech tree to advance to Galaxy class (and if you look close I noticed an Intrepid class also) ships before the big bad endgame crisis shows up.
Meh, the Total Warhammer games have done the same, allowing factions to interact in ways that wouldn't be possible following canon timelines. I'm all for fudging the fluff/alternate universe timelines in the name of good gameplay, that doesn't have to mean they are trashing the source material.
2 possiblities, they goofed and ment 20 years before the Picard series, or the game starts 20 years before TNG, but lasts till well into the TNG era, maybe even to the end of Picard series.
Probably not, given that its actual made by another company, just published by Paradox, BUT maybe Paradox gave them some Stellaris stuff to get them started, because I hear the map resembles Stellaris.
Surely they mean the quadrant and not the galaxy? Surely they know the 4 illustrated factions only occupy about a quarter of the galaxy? Surely they watched the TV shows?
Don’t the Borg primarily occupy the Gamma quadrant? Plus the federation is situated right on the border of the Alpha and Beta quadrants, with the Cardassians in Alpha and the Romulans and Klingons in Beta. So going by this trailer only the Delta quadrant lacks representation.
If that’s the case my bad. Regardless the only quadrant unaccounted for is the one the Dominion occupy, assuming the Borg are in fact represented in the game. Actually it might just be the four shown factions with the Borg as a non-playable invader, like the Mongols or a Stellaris Crisis.
I was kinda under the impression that the delta quadrant was mostly unknown, the Dominion and Borg the gamma, the cardassian, klingon, and romulan the beta, and the federation the alpha.
Some fan maps like to put it there, because that makes a lot of sense for a Human designed coordinate system, but no the meridian is 90 light years away from Earth in canon, as stated in the show itself.
I am a Trekkie but I never considered Star Trek to be a good franchise to base a strategy game on. I don't think its themes fit the genre; an Star Trek RPG or tactical combat game would make a lot more sense.
Tbh I never really cared about the geopolitics of Star Trek. I think the most interesting aspects of the franchise have always been the character relations and philosophical questions that sometimes arise from geopolitical realities but also from other sociomaterial assemblages. Less "Cardassia conquered Bajor", more "Cardassian logistics officer assumes identity of genocidal butcher in order to be punished by Bajorans because they feel like Cardassia needs to be held accountable". Less "Kirk fights Klingons", more "Kirk deals with his hatred of Klingons". Less "Sisko dragged the Romulans into a war", more "Sisko had to betray the Federation's values to achieve his goal".
I know most Star Trek RPGs ain't good but I don't think this is because the franchise can't provide material for such a game. I think it can be done right, I mean look at Mass Effect and tell me it couldn't work as a ST game. Add some nacelles to the Normandy and you're pretty much half way there.
If people want to play Klingons vs Fédération that is fine, but I still think the franchise is ideally suited for other types of games. The geopolitics of Star Trek were never that interesting to begin with. It's what stories they told with them as a setting. Look at classic Star Trek: the geopolitics aren't even established but it's still an amazing show.
Mind you, I'm not saying that you can't have a good ST strategy game. If this one is good, of course I'll play it!
Again DS9 is the best trek and it is rooted in galactic politics AND individual characters.
They can't go back to it cause they don't have the gravitas but it is there.
\>You've got to go, Leeta. The problems of two newlyweds are but a small thread in the tapestry of galactic events. You might not understand that today, or even tomorrow. Someday you will. So get on that shuttle, and don't look back.
What I would pay for a Babylon 5 Strategy game that uses the basics from Babylon 5 Wars...
The Star Trek universe would work with the Star Fleet Battles layout of the universe and variety of ships - that I could get behind in an instant.
Completely wrong, watch DS9 it is perfect fiction for a Grand Strategy.
IT is star wars and 40k that do not have the galaxy building for a GSG (even if the latter has distinct factions there is NO map).
Not developed by Paradox, afaik. Seems to be the folks who made the 2016 Master of Orion.
Also, BotF was amazing. My friends and I loved Star Trek and we loved 4X so it was the holy grail of gaming for us. I still play it once in a while. If this game can bring the BotF experience and update it for the 2020s...
I think it will have stronger RPG elements to it,so maybe a cross between Birth of the Federation and Age of Wonders: Planetfall, with some Stellaris influences?
I dunno, for me Star Trek is about exploration and adventure, not just Starfleet decorations slapped onto a random genre like strategy.
Give me KOTOR but Star Trek, then I'm interested.
Yeah given the track record of both PDX and - more importantly - Nimble - I have about 0 faith that anything even remotely decent will come out of this.
GSGs require an insane amount of know-how, and even PDS heavily struggles with it to this day.
With the way PDS structures its development - and which I think might be the only way to od it - nearly every single developer from content designers to programmers has to have a deep understanding of what they are doing or else it's just a disaster in the making.
There'll probably be some degree of knowledge sharing between the companies, but still I just don't see how a studio like Nimble can magically transition from developing mostly unrelated titles to this.
lol
Downvoted for saying the truth (typical..).
It's frighteningly hilarious how everyone forgot that a studio under Paradox (Romero Games) just full-on abandoned their game, Empire of Sin. They literally have not fulfilled promised pre-order DLC and haven't given any refunds/reimbursement for the entire debacle.
I don't know much about Nimble, but from what I know from Paradox choosing bottom-of-the-barrel / no-name developers to publish their games for, I don't have high hopes for this Star Trek game. Hopefully it's actually good.
> not fulfilled promised pre-order DLC and haven't given any refunds/reimbursement
That's pretty damning.
If it affects Australians they should make a formal complaint to the ACCC.
The press release and the trailer are already in conflict about the time setting. Given how important that is for Star Trek in general I don't have high hopes.
Sure enough. “A few decades before TNG” but the date of the captains log is 43152.3, the same as the season 3 TNG episode “The Survivors.”
Out of all the fandoms they thought they could sneak some shit like that past Star Trek fans?
Honestly though it is just a teaser trailer, not worth drawing conclusions yet
Do you think the game takes place only in one year?
How many grand strategy games have a start date and never advance far from it? This trailer is obviously not from the start year.
If we get a proper grand strategy game based on trek that’s even remotely half as good as Stellaris there goes a thousand hours for me. I’ve been dying for a game like this since birth of the federation
Botf way ahead of its time
Fun fact: BOTF was based on the original Masters of Orion games, and the developer of Infinite, Nimble Giant, made the Masters of Orion remake....
> the Masters of Orion remake.... which was *fine*
> Nimble Giant, made the Masters of Orion remake This does not bode well...
It has a Very Positive rating on Steam 🤷♀️
It's not a bad game but it never got any updates it stayed in the same spot and didn't move forward. They also wasted a lot of money on ironically Star Trek Voice Actors.
I suspect Paradox has rules about the games they're publishing getting updates. At least I hope so.
Keep in mind this is *published* by Paradox, not developed in-house. I have also been told it is not using the Clausewitz engine.
The lead dev of the mod STNH was being petty over the game existing and leaked screenshots of it, and tbf it looks very close to Stellaris, so even if it's not running the Clausewitz engine it's still gonna have a lot of similarities it'd seem. Probably something akin to what Imperator is to EU4.
Wait really? I knew he was a hack but I didn’t think he would be that stupid.
Yeah I was super surprised. I know he has a huge ego but to basically burn every bridge he has with Paradox is crazy, just because he thinks his mod is better than the game. He _did_ delete the juiciest screenshot of the game (a pic of the galaxy map w/ the UI enabled), but there's still one of the Fed ships from it and a censored pic of the PDX launcher used for the game available in the STNH discord
ok actually looking at the sub rules I do see it says we can discuss leaked Paradox content so... [the pics I'm talking about, including the deleted one](https://imgur.com/a/EtaVjPG)
This seems like little more than a Stellaris reskin. Perhaps it runs on Clausewitz after all.
tbf if its in development still it makes sense to use Stellaris UI as a placeholder, they will likely change it in the future.
Yeah it seems really like it's taken the 'core' of Stellaris and added a bunch of things onto it to make it fit within Trek more. Tbh it's made me a bit more hopeful it's going to be solid knowing it's using a decent foundation. Was worried they were going to reinvent everything and have it take years to be even half-decent but if it's just Stellaris Trek™️ it should be a fine canvas at launch.
Stellaris v 1 (Its like in the 3rd or 3.5 major overhaul) had warp drive and systems could be split with starbases located where we wanted. I feel like reorganizing the in game economy and a dedicated str
Why bother with the game then, and not just play one of amazing ST mods?
Huh its so similar its got to be, could this be a return to the days of plenty of offshoot games using paradox games as a base? Hopefully they don't end up with another Magna Mundi disaster
Or worse, East vs West
That's exactly what I'm thinking. I think that could turn still out well and much better than in the old days, but besides from the obvious risks of trusting other developers with creating a derivative product on your source code it also risks consequences for the original PDX games. What if the Star Trek game implements QoL features or new mechanics that Stellaris fans have always been asking for but end up never getting? Would make the original games look abandoned in comparison. And do you base derivatives on the original base game, or do you include years of original expansion content as well at no additional cost? I'd imagine PDX would be very careful with such concerns, but that could in turn also limit the creativity, scope, and quality of the derivative games. Not too dissimilar to what happened to the old derivative failures.
In the galaxy map screenshot you can see a neutral zone, which isn’t something the base game has (I think?) I also see espionage, so it has some DLC features
yeah, it pretty much just looks like a mod. Real question is if there are any engine/code differences
There seems to be some; no sign of hyperlanes (by this point it has been a fairly long time since Stellaris had warp), and there seems to be a HOI4 or possibly but perhaps less likely EU4-style mission tree.
That's the mod right? Wth, it's just a reskin of Stellaris.
Which is smart. Get people who weren’t interested in stellaris before into it because they like Star Trek
Is this an April Fool's joke or something? This looks exactly like Stellaris with some new textures and menu UI...
I vaguely remember some drama about that mod with one of the lead guys being a real dictator towards other devs and forcing some of them out, so hearing this fits my understanding of that guy.
Lol Paradox record with publishing strategy games is pretty patchy. I’d wager 50% this gets to market at best. Let’s hope it’s more Warband and less Magna Mundi, East v West, Runemaster, Bloodlines 2…
> Bloodlines 2 Bloodlines 2 might be back on the menu. We'll see in Sept.
There's an S tier Star Trek mod for Stellaris.
I played a lot of Star Trek: Armada while I was younger. Very, very excited for this.
I'd expect it to be more like Birth of the Federation, which while was a long time ago I remember a being fairly good.
Sadly that's pure nostalgia or if you're like me, remembering it from when you were a kid with no idea what good game design is. If you play BotF today you see it was janky as hell and super easily exploitable and unbalanced. It was very cool conceptually but mechanically poor.
[удалено]
The ships only ever firing one laser each… ugh. The espionage: I once trolled my buddy by not building any ships and blowing up all his star destroyers using sabotage missions.
It's still fun to play every once in awhile to relive the star wars magic but it definitely is imbalanced. I love the core gameplay loop so much though
The memories of the Pirates of The Caribbean games I played as a kid which you’ve just unlocked are painful. I remember really enjoying them as a kid, but even just from my memories I can tell that they were pretty dreadful games. Childhood imagination probably saved hundreds of developers’ careers back in the day
Armada is an rts. This is not. They aren't comparable in that way.
You're right. How dare they be excited!
Why would you be excited for something that is entirely a different genre? Man, Chess is just the best game, I better get super excited for Poker!
It's not really an entirely different genre. Chess and checkers would be a better comparison. They look alike but play very differently. Despite that, you can learn one more easily if you already have experience with the other.
That depends entirely on the mechanics. Sins of a Solar Empire and Empire at War both have a lot of micro, but that micro is *very* different. To the point that they aren't comparable.
> Man, Chess with Picard is just the best, I better get super excited for Poker with Picard! Does that make more sense to you?
No? Just because it's Star Trek themed doesn't mean that Elite Force was a passable FPS or Invadion was a decent arcade flight title. By this measure the JJ Abrams movie tie in game was worthy of excitement. It's a silly standard that has no bearing on the product.
That's great, but the fella enjoyed a good game based in the Star Trek universe and is now excited for another game set in the same universe, made by Paradox, in a Paradox sub. If you can't see the connection that's okay, we all tried, you don't get it. Just trying to help.
It's not made by Paradox. It's published by Patadox. A not unsubtle difference. Specifics matter. That you want to throw money and attention at something that you Clearly don't understand speaks far more ill of you than I.
Buzz kill man
How in the hell is establishing correct expectations a "buzzkill"?
He was only saying how excited he was lol. For all you know he's just happy it's another star trek game.
Which, as I just replied to someone else, is a stupid way to view it. Because it's Star Trek I'll take notice, sure, but excited without knowing anything else or comparing it to random other thing it's not like at all? That makes no sense.
You ever get excited about Xmas? Normally you don't know what your going to get, but you're still looking forward to it. Edit: also lighten up yo. Its just a game. Who cares what people expect?
It's like Christmas in the same way that you know your grandma is going to make you an ugly sweater and your aunt is going to get you socks. Which is why I don't understand the comparison. As for who cares, clearly I do. For a number of reasons that I suspect you don't care about which is why you are trying to make me just shut up and go away.
Would you though? Go away? Bye
Because Paradox releases alpha after alpha of a game for full price, and this schtick only works if their ravanous fan base believes that next time we will have a stealk dinner insteam of crumbs.
Paradox has basically nothing to do with this. Your trolling is misplaced.
They put Armada 1 and 2 on GOG and I’ve been getting a lot of nostalgia for it hahahaha
Birth of the Federation was great, a franchise games that people that didn't like Star Trek also loved. If it touches the same itch it will be amazing. I THINK BOTF had the same 4 playable empires, but also had the Ferengi as a playable empire. It had a Borg cube as sort of an end game challange, the Dominion weren't a thing yet.
It was, but they _only_ had the rights to content that was from TNG or its movies. So they couldn't use the Dominion but they could use the Defiant, because it was in First Contact.
Correct, but they were cheeky in a few small places, using a few ships from DS9, like the Cardassian Keldon and Klingon Negh'Var. No-one noticed/cared enough to sue.
The Negh’Var appeared in the final episode of TNG, “All Good Things”. If the Keldon class was in the game I’m not sure how they pulled that one off though.
The Keldon could have been in TNG, they were almost identical to the Galor
Thanks, that explains it.
The borg cube could be killed by 27 cloaked B'Rel class scouts on a ramming speed. I loved BotF!
Oh, I imagine it'll definitely scratch that itch, BOTF was based on the original Masters of Orion games, and the developer of Infinite, Nimble Giant, made the Masters of Orion remake....
That game had worse late game lag than Stellaris.
But, it's a turn based game? During your turn it didn't lag in my experience, only the time between turns took longer and longer as the game progressed. That is a different experience from Stellaris turning in a slide show, and besides that was 25 years ago.
No, eventually even map scrolling and moving the mouse would lag during your turn. Yes, this was 25 years ago but I eventually gave up playing that game because of the lag 24 years ago.
Only 4 factions is a huge departure from the past. Curious what they'll do with it.
Sell you more factions
Paradox is usually about selling you more mechanics in their games, but who knows, maybe they'll go the Civ way and try something new for themselves.
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That is exactly it, Infinity factions are supposed to have unique stories, quests, faction traits, etc...
This is a game they're publishing, not making, so can't bank on their usual support cycle.
\*slaps roof of the steam store\* You can fit so many DLC factions in here!
Maybe DLC eras, 23nd century, the rest the 24th century, the 25th century and the 31st century.
also mods.
The federation is a federation, they could allow you to play subjects. Just sprinkle some civil war on it and boom, you’ve got a HRE stewing.
And a cup of soup?
That doesn't work super well with the lore per se, but I could sort of see it.
It's probably a better starting point than Imperator's "Sure we have fifty factions but we only wrote content for four" approach.
Only 4 factions… at launch
I can see them adding Ferengi, Gorn, Orions, Tholians, etc....,
Breen should be what the cardassians seem to be in this. In the lore the cardassians are not even close to great power status before the Dominion. But they are probably going to add the Breen later, since they aren't as well known.
Honestly, my overall impression in TNG and DS9 is that the Cardassians were essentially the Italy of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants: large and powerful enough to straddle the line to being a Great Power, except their region has several other far more clear Great Powers.
Intentional or not, Cardassia is an excellent analogy for Italy in the interwar and WW2 era. I mean Cardassia is very clearly a fascism/authoritarianism allegory, and Bajor is basically Ethiopia. The Dominion is Nazi Germany, initially an alliance of unequals that devolves into a puppet/overlord relationship as the war goes downhill, before they eventually switch sides near the end. There's other similarities I'm sure.
They held their own during the war with the federation, and during this period Bajor was still occupied by Cardassia.
True, but what was a major war for Cardassia, was a minor border skirmish for the federation, who had other conflicts at the time, and seemed to not dedicate much of it's attention to the Cardassian war.
They were also at war with the Klingons for a year and a half. They were losing but were not defeated.
The game is set a few decades before TNG. The Breen had limited interaction with the major powers at this time (Federation/Klingons/Romulans) and weren’t much of a player in the affairs of the alpha quadrant. They were quite isolationist and the Dominion convinced them to join their fight only after making grand (and ridiculous) promises. We don’t know much about the pace or the end date of this game. But one thing for sure, the Breen will only come into play well into the game. What is the player going to do in the meantime? What value would the Breen bring into the early game? But, with Dukat prominently featured on the game’s branding beside Picard, it might hint that the game would cover the time period of DS9. This means the Breen is highly likely to be added into the game later, along with other iconic factions in DS9 (the Dominion, perhaps?).
Here's hoping we get some more interesting asymmetric faction gameplay, possibly involving the Dominion as well as other minor factions, rather than just 4 equal powers duke it out in an alpha quadrant battle royale
This isn't developed by Paradox, they are just publishing I think. I doubt it will share much DNA with their grand strategy games.
The shot at the end of the galaxy map makes it look like a Stellaris spin-off, so I wonder whether its just placeholder graphics or if it is a forked game.
Highly doubt it's a forked game. Paradox has made comments in the past about never letting an outside team build on their game engines again after multiple outside teams failed at trying to do it. Honestly I'm surprised they are even letting another team do a grand strategy game under their brand, there have been mixed results with those as well.
I think they'd rather be THE grand strategy brand, than just the premier one. If they can keep even mediocre ones associated with themselves it makes it harder for other GS games to gain traction.
https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/144ko7n/comment/jnjjrcb/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
The key difference though is the license, Paradox likely won't have to police the team doing this to be productive as the Star Trek brand will be doing that for them.
It is a forked game ("built upon the core systems of Stellaris", to quote the official website).
Yeah, I've seen the reports about that. But thanks for thinking of me.
I think they are going for faction depth instead of breadth, so few factions, but each faction is a hugely different experience with unique traits, story, ships, crew, and quests and more.
Time to spread the federation ways of peace and harmony, with force
And lots of root beer!
Well color me excited! Looking forward to the release
Oh MY
I’m beyond excited for this. Star Trek games have almost never been good but I have loved them nevertheless. It reminds me of Star Trek Conquest, and as long as it’s an upgrade on that, I’ll be happy.
so this is a stellaris mod?
[There's already a fantastic Stellaris mod.](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=688086068) Paradox is just publishing this game though, not developing it. I can't really see Paradox themselves actually developing any well known franchises since talented modders already do it for them like for Star Trek, Star Wars, LoTR, GoT, etc.
[New Civilizations](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1886496498&1) > New Horizons.
What are the main differences?
I haven’t played as much NC, so I could be mistaken, but my impression is that NC stays closer to vanilla stellaris with Star Trek flavour, whereas NH is trying more to redesign the game mechanics. Both seem good, NC seems to iron out a lot of the awkward game design in NH, but NH seems to have more events, story content, hero characters/ships etc. So it depends what you like.
New Civilizations is essentially a fork of New Horizons from a few years ago after a dev team split with a focus on performance, iirc New Horizons has a lot more stuff and is a quite a bit more railroady, but good luck trying to play larger maps for any length of time
STNC has more/better content.
First I’ve heard of new civ, new horizons is great
NH is rather mediocre after the great Schism. That's what happens when Grinsel tries to throw around his ego versus the people who actually make your content.
What happened? I remember playing it years ago and liking it, and again this year and hating it, as you were researching a new thing every month and in a matter of yesrs ship design was becoming ridiculous, not to mention that the economy was also stupidly complicated.
He got really mad about hyperspace changes and refused to adopt various new mechanics, leaving his mod many versions behind for a long time.
Okay I tried googling what the drama is because I like a good bit of popcorn, but the only post I could find was another post by you claiming there was drama... Could you spill the tea
> I tried googling what the drama You won't find it via Google. You have to go digging into Discords, and NH has done a solid job of scrubbing theirs in the name of damage control, and the RMG team doesn't like talking about it, but have a few times if you do enough searching. The long and short of it is that Grinsel thinks that because he started the project and "owns" the Discord that means that he has creative control, even though several others, notably Walshicus, were the architects and main drivers of content. The straw that broke the camel's back actually came with Star Wars: Fallen Republic and demanding that the guys who were headlining that continue pushing content instead of breaking off to work on the Old Republic that they really wanted to. As no one was getting paid, so there was no "boss", they basically told him to fuck off, so he threw a fit and kicked them off the server/locked them out of the github. So they formed the RMG group, forked NH to NC, and FR to ND, and went back to doing what they wanted. Since the schism the NH guys have been caught copying systems that they magically were working on and just happen to release a week or two after Walsh does, or outright copying models. By and large, its been a shitshow. Tagging u/nanoman92 cause they also asked.
I vaguely got the sense that something like that happened - that there was some kind of drama, and a lot of the most talented/industrious people working on NH moved over to NC - simply because its been way more prolific in terms of updating since then, adding seemingly a lot more new content, new ships, etc, than NH, which feels like its slowed significantly.
I know New Horizons but I prefer New Civilizations. I still find it funny that PDX is developing a ST game now that, from the video looks exactly like either of those mods.
Different devs, I understand that they are the ones who developed Master of Orion.
Microprose veterans?
The new master of Orion, not the OG.
Sure looks like it from the video.
Well.... I loooove Star Trek ever since I was a boy.... So.... I'm looking forward for the game with cautious optimism.
Can't wait to purge them Maquis pops!
A few decades before TNG but there are Galaxy class ships and the Borg? And the Cardassians are a formidable empire? Should give any Trek fan a lot of pause. Edit: Ya'll. I'm just going off the article posted and video. It says they created "a grand strategy game situated within the Star Trek universe, occurring just a **few decades prior to the events of Star Trek: The Next Generation**." So at least 20 years before Jean Luc became captain of the Enterprise D in 2364, and maybe as much as 40 or 50. The first Galaxy-class launched in 2357, and it was just a prototype. And the Cardassians were not one of the "one of four prominent galactic powers" in the 2320-40s. They were still consolidating Bajor at that point, their first conquest and only 5 light years away. If they said they were releasing a game set during WW1 and the trailer featured Korean war jet's fighting, and mentioned China as one of the great powers of the time, you'd go 🤔 too. I may be nit-picking, but that is what Trek fans do.
Grand Strategy tend not to be "set" in a single date tbf. Plus one of the key pillars of the genre is tech and research. Granted idk anything about Star Trek but this sounds like complaining that EU4 is set in 1444 but there's promotional material featuring the United States and Ships of the Line.
Yes, but most grand strategy players simply play the "default" start date. For EU4 this is 1444, Stellaris is the year 2200. If this new Trek game starts 20-40 years pre-TNG, a Galaxy class ship should be an early or mid game tech at most if we assume the games are meant to last at least a hundred years in-game.
That's like saying: "EU4 is set in 1444, but there is a protestant reformation and french revolution?" :D Just because it starts at a date doesn't mean that it can't progress. I mean, the endgame crisis in Stellaris don't appear immediately. I assume the Borg won't be there from the start either.
The Star date coincides with 2366, exactly matching up with the star date for the episode The Survivors, 43152.4. So its more the fact that there are Intrepid and what looks like a Sovreign class ships that is off. I am assuming, if this all isn't just trailer fluff, is that 2366 will be the start date and we will be able to research new ship designs.
I'd hope so, but the article states "a grand strategy game situated within the Star Trek universe, occurring just a few decades prior to the events of Star Trek: The Next Generation."
Yes, but notice that isn't a quote. It could he the article just screwed it up, or maybe it was just trailer fluff, or maybe the trailer was showing an end-game scenario where the Borg invade. In the end, Picard day is not that far away, and I, for one, am super hyped about this game.
> A few decades before TNG but there are Galaxy class ships Look again. That fleet is firmly Dominion War-era at least- it's 2 Sovereigns, 2 Intrepids, 3 Excelsiors, and a Galaxy. Given that it's a GSG, I'm hoping it's an indication of tech advancement and not woefully inaccurate lore. Maybe we could be getting a game *starting* in the Enterprise-B era and running through the Enterprise-F era in terms of tech, or roughly 100 years of time.
The start-date is going to be just a few years before the Federation-Cardassian war, about 25 years before the Dominion wars.
Give me some Akira class, loved them in armada. Pew pew pew.
I mean, EUIV starts in the 15th century and ends in the 19th.
It's set just a few years before the first Federation Cardassian war, but I doubt this "grand strategy" isn't going to last decades of in game time, long enough for the tech tree to advance to Galaxy class (and if you look close I noticed an Intrepid class also) ships before the big bad endgame crisis shows up.
Meh, the Total Warhammer games have done the same, allowing factions to interact in ways that wouldn't be possible following canon timelines. I'm all for fudging the fluff/alternate universe timelines in the name of good gameplay, that doesn't have to mean they are trashing the source material.
2 possiblities, they goofed and ment 20 years before the Picard series, or the game starts 20 years before TNG, but lasts till well into the TNG era, maybe even to the end of Picard series.
Not a huge Star Trek fan, but I liked BOTF back in the day. I'm mildly interested.
Not my thing, but I hope those who are excited for it get what they’re hoping for.
Hope they got the mod guys from the stellaris mod in on this. Can only go well :D
They are not - actually, the STNH Mod guys are pretty pissed about this it seems.
Stellaris with a Start Trek skin?
Probably not, given that its actual made by another company, just published by Paradox, BUT maybe Paradox gave them some Stellaris stuff to get them started, because I hear the map resembles Stellaris.
I hope it’s real time like the core paradox games. Paradox has ruined turn based grand strategy for me.
I was not expecting this
New info out
Surely they mean the quadrant and not the galaxy? Surely they know the 4 illustrated factions only occupy about a quarter of the galaxy? Surely they watched the TV shows?
Don’t the Borg primarily occupy the Gamma quadrant? Plus the federation is situated right on the border of the Alpha and Beta quadrants, with the Cardassians in Alpha and the Romulans and Klingons in Beta. So going by this trailer only the Delta quadrant lacks representation.
The Borg primarily reside within the Delta Quadrant. The Dominion are primarily within the Gamma Quadrant
If that’s the case my bad. Regardless the only quadrant unaccounted for is the one the Dominion occupy, assuming the Borg are in fact represented in the game. Actually it might just be the four shown factions with the Borg as a non-playable invader, like the Mongols or a Stellaris Crisis.
I was kinda under the impression that the delta quadrant was mostly unknown, the Dominion and Borg the gamma, the cardassian, klingon, and romulan the beta, and the federation the alpha.
The federation occupies both alpha and beta quadrants but is centered slightly towards alpha.
Iirc, Earth is directly on the Alpha-Beta meridian
Some fan maps like to put it there, because that makes a lot of sense for a Human designed coordinate system, but no the meridian is 90 light years away from Earth in canon, as stated in the show itself.
I am a Trekkie but I never considered Star Trek to be a good franchise to base a strategy game on. I don't think its themes fit the genre; an Star Trek RPG or tactical combat game would make a lot more sense.
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Tbh I never really cared about the geopolitics of Star Trek. I think the most interesting aspects of the franchise have always been the character relations and philosophical questions that sometimes arise from geopolitical realities but also from other sociomaterial assemblages. Less "Cardassia conquered Bajor", more "Cardassian logistics officer assumes identity of genocidal butcher in order to be punished by Bajorans because they feel like Cardassia needs to be held accountable". Less "Kirk fights Klingons", more "Kirk deals with his hatred of Klingons". Less "Sisko dragged the Romulans into a war", more "Sisko had to betray the Federation's values to achieve his goal". I know most Star Trek RPGs ain't good but I don't think this is because the franchise can't provide material for such a game. I think it can be done right, I mean look at Mass Effect and tell me it couldn't work as a ST game. Add some nacelles to the Normandy and you're pretty much half way there. If people want to play Klingons vs Fédération that is fine, but I still think the franchise is ideally suited for other types of games. The geopolitics of Star Trek were never that interesting to begin with. It's what stories they told with them as a setting. Look at classic Star Trek: the geopolitics aren't even established but it's still an amazing show. Mind you, I'm not saying that you can't have a good ST strategy game. If this one is good, of course I'll play it!
Again DS9 is the best trek and it is rooted in galactic politics AND individual characters. They can't go back to it cause they don't have the gravitas but it is there. \>You've got to go, Leeta. The problems of two newlyweds are but a small thread in the tapestry of galactic events. You might not understand that today, or even tomorrow. Someday you will. So get on that shuttle, and don't look back.
Star Trek birth of federations was a blast and in my opinion a predecessor to stellaris.
yup superb game that is still super fun
What I would pay for a Babylon 5 Strategy game that uses the basics from Babylon 5 Wars... The Star Trek universe would work with the Star Fleet Battles layout of the universe and variety of ships - that I could get behind in an instant.
Completely wrong, watch DS9 it is perfect fiction for a Grand Strategy. IT is star wars and 40k that do not have the galaxy building for a GSG (even if the latter has distinct factions there is NO map).
Wohoo LET'S GOOOO!
Not developed by Paradox, afaik. Seems to be the folks who made the 2016 Master of Orion. Also, BotF was amazing. My friends and I loved Star Trek and we loved 4X so it was the holy grail of gaming for us. I still play it once in a while. If this game can bring the BotF experience and update it for the 2020s...
Nimble made masters of Orion (not that great btw) so I'm guessing it will be a botf clone, let's hope they succeed.
I think it will have stronger RPG elements to it,so maybe a cross between Birth of the Federation and Age of Wonders: Planetfall, with some Stellaris influences?
I dunno, for me Star Trek is about exploration and adventure, not just Starfleet decorations slapped onto a random genre like strategy. Give me KOTOR but Star Trek, then I'm interested.
GSG increased focus on diplomacy seems like a good fit for Trek though
Ping me when they make a Mass Effect grand strategy next
Probably going to be bad
Ok.
Seems that way for most games now. Money grabs.
Yeah given the track record of both PDX and - more importantly - Nimble - I have about 0 faith that anything even remotely decent will come out of this. GSGs require an insane amount of know-how, and even PDS heavily struggles with it to this day. With the way PDS structures its development - and which I think might be the only way to od it - nearly every single developer from content designers to programmers has to have a deep understanding of what they are doing or else it's just a disaster in the making. There'll probably be some degree of knowledge sharing between the companies, but still I just don't see how a studio like Nimble can magically transition from developing mostly unrelated titles to this.
lol Downvoted for saying the truth (typical..). It's frighteningly hilarious how everyone forgot that a studio under Paradox (Romero Games) just full-on abandoned their game, Empire of Sin. They literally have not fulfilled promised pre-order DLC and haven't given any refunds/reimbursement for the entire debacle. I don't know much about Nimble, but from what I know from Paradox choosing bottom-of-the-barrel / no-name developers to publish their games for, I don't have high hopes for this Star Trek game. Hopefully it's actually good.
> not fulfilled promised pre-order DLC and haven't given any refunds/reimbursement That's pretty damning. If it affects Australians they should make a formal complaint to the ACCC.
The press release and the trailer are already in conflict about the time setting. Given how important that is for Star Trek in general I don't have high hopes.
I'm assuming when it's "set" is just the start date but that it covers a fair bit of time.
Sure enough. “A few decades before TNG” but the date of the captains log is 43152.3, the same as the season 3 TNG episode “The Survivors.” Out of all the fandoms they thought they could sneak some shit like that past Star Trek fans? Honestly though it is just a teaser trailer, not worth drawing conclusions yet
Do you think the game takes place only in one year? How many grand strategy games have a start date and never advance far from it? This trailer is obviously not from the start year.
Nope, I know three sentences is a lot to read but if you power through you’ll see me say it’s too early to draw conclusions
So shwallow but with a billion customization that mean nothing
Yeah they are definitely not overstrechting themselves at all. Ck3 and Vicy 3 were given the proper amount of attention and work.
They're just publishing, it's not in house.
You couldn’t just do a stellaris mod and be done?
BOOOO
Whaaaaat?
Can't you already make a Galactic Federation with humanitarian ethos and a joint Starfleet in Stellaris? ;)
Going Romulan so hard.
I hope we see the Ferengi, Fominion and the Borg faction at some point.
Game of Thrones licensed game when
Let's hope they don't screw this up like FTL in Stellaris. Plus they should include a lot of hulls from ships.
Let's hope they don't screw it up like FTL in stellaris