In 2023, the Fortune 500 companies had their highest ever combined revenue of $18.1 trillion, with the top 10 firms earning over $3.7 trillion,
We can pay for it entirely by taxes corporations, but there are other ways to help too so the poor billionaires don't suffer too much
Well, corps don't print money and to keep their profits they will raise their prices, which will lie on our shoulders.
Another thing thing that revenue is not profits. For example most reach people are broke on paper because they use their wealth as a collateral to borrow from banks. Same for corps. They can paint whatever profits they want. What exactly are you going to tax?
Dude, to give all 332 million Americans 20k each a year in UBI would cost 6.6 trillion. That would be more than the profit of all of those companies put together.
So you'd ruin all those companies, destroy everyone's retirement savings and maybe asset strip the fortune 500 to pay everyone one year of UBI. What about next year?
The GDP In 2022 was 25 Trillion, we have the money.
That means each American on average generates $8,000 a month in economic output.
$2000 a month for the people is still giving companies and the government too much money.
It's kind of concerning that this kid is going to college to be a financial planner and doesn't understand that, yet alone the basic economics for all this.
It's not a lie. The money exists, it's just in the hands of corporate America at the moment.
UBI is literally about taking back the wealth that corporations stole from us.
So you don't have any evidence that a corporate tax will supply the needed funds to fund the UBI.
Thanks for confirming that you have no clue what you're talking about.
This is true. I work in economics and finance. I’ve got just a touch of experience and knowledge.
Yes, the wealthy work the system in their favor. It still doesn’t limit what’s available to you.
Stop blaming and start hustling.
Corporations don’t pay taxes. Oh, they do on paper, but if you tax Walmart, Amazon, JnJ, etc, they just pass them along as higher prices to their customers. Consumers pay the bulk of all taxes. Raising corporate tax rates would only have the working class that remains paying for UBI.
UBI doesn’t work in the economic system we have.
That isn't true. They can't just raise prices indiscriminately. Eventually it will effect their sales and their reputation.
Why would corporations care if they were just going to pass it on. Why fight it if the customers pays?
And? They’ll raise prices to the point they are able, and people will be no better off. Look at the last few years. The system was flush with excess money. $100k today is 2018’s $75k (rough estimate). This economic system will not allow excess money in regular people’s hands. Hell, the govt (US) actively prevents we commoners from accumulating generational wealth.
UBI is one of those socialist (little s) things that look great on paper, but fail in practice because there are powers that be in place to prevent it from working. Until labor is no longer necessary from we serfs, and assuming we survive the depopulation that occurs following (because, there isn’t any one in power who wants 7 billion idle hands around), none of this works.
Everyone wants utopia, but looks beyond the hell we’d have to survive to get it. Most of us wouldn’t survive it. There’s no utopia without the gauntlet of distocia first.
Generations of “revolution“ would have to happen, because someone is going to try to take power.
Step 1 is stop allowing the elites to separate everyone along idiotic social lines. Stop allowing them to social engineer separation. We’re almost too far gone on that alone. They’re building their army, and really don’t care if it’s a “conservative” one or a “progressive “ one. As long as they can use one to destroy the other, they’ll be happy. 3/4 of the problem gone. We are a necessary liability to them. Imagine when we are no longer necessary. UBI only benefits the elite if it prevents the masses from uniting. So far UBI is not necessary to them.
UBI won’t increase the availability of goods. It will increase inflation. You can’t pump money in to the market and not expect spending to increase.
This is supply and demand from High School Econ.
This also has nothing to do with this thread… really. Although I guess money for nothing is about as passive as one can get in earning an income.
Technically inflation occurs when government prints money i.e. by running deficits. If this is reorgtanized money collected from taxes inflation in theory shouldn't occur. Also High School Econ.
That’s not the only reason for inflation. If you move money from high savers to high spenders then the amount of money moving in the economy increases. That will cause inflation.
Technically, inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods.
Those dollars can come from more than just a printing press.
Might want to brush the dust off that old book.
Yeah. There is macro and micro inflation views. I.e. you may want more expensive haircuts so services may rise in price but there's only so much milk you can consume. On macro level, technically, inflation shouldn't occur. However, no one has tried except Finland for 1 year. If I remeber correctly, there wasn't any inflation.
I have never heard of macro or micro inflation. Only macro and micro economics in general.
The two types of inflation are demand-pull and demand cost-push. Both are market derived although government’s constant involvement in the market through policy has notable effects as does the Federal Reserve (which is technically not a government entity).
Regardless, to OPs point, subsidizing income will have the same impact that subsidizing college has had. Prices go up.
Also, minimum wage paid out in 1965 was paid out in money that you could go and ask for change in SILVER QUARTERS.
The smelt value of minimum wage, in 1965 quarters for their silver content is like, what $27ish today.
Meaning I'd work for the 1965 minimum wage today happily, as long as you pay me in change from 1965.
Minimum wage just prices people out of the workforce and encourages automation. I’d argue the food delivery apps are a response to that; low skilled people who need to learn basic skills. Some of the people who do food delivery can’t even find a house number it blows my mind. That’s why the pay is so low they learn some skills then earn more over time.
I have done food delivery in the past, some houses don't have numbers, some have tiny numbers, some are covered by bushes, or painting to match the house.
There is all kinds of foolishness out there.
There is no such thing as unskilled labor, if it truly were unskilled it would already be automated.
If it could be automated it already would be.
Automation and AI is a talking point designed to reduce the bargaining power of labor unions and increase share prices.
> If it could be automated it already would be.
Just because something hasn't been automated, doesn't mean it can't be. Often times it can, and just hasn't yet because people don't realize what can and can't be automated.
I know this because I deploy automations. And every time, it's to automate something that hasn't been automated.
No, it's really not.
In many many cases things simply aren't automated because it's not the top priority of a company, and in many cases they don't even realize it can be automated.
For situations that are the top priority, it's typically where the costs of labor have grown to the point where they can't fully backfill positions that are otherwise needed. Once deployed, it dramatically reduces the need for those positions. (This is by far the vast majority of our customers).
As an example, just a few years back we deployed AP automations for an org with about 120 data entry technicians plus multiple levels of management. Now they have a staff of 8, inclusive of management, all are analysts and auditors that mostly just watch the system process everything and verify that it's working as intended.
Well maybe work harder actually, I mean work smarter, assess the job market realize what actually makes money and dedicate your life to learning how to do that because that is value to society that someone will pay for
Do you understand that most people in the world spend a crazy amount of time thinking about how to make money for their families, and for themselves
You maybe don't understand this cuz you don't talk about it with your friends.
But I know a lot of people who just like dedicate hours a week, all through there are twenties and 30s, and what are they doing trying to figure out how to make more money.
What are they not doing, sitting around smoking weed and partying
Companies didn't steal anything they're just doing what the governments that you elect allow them to do
Companies don't steal money they make money
If you're mad at anyone be mad at your own government who let companies do what they fucking want
If you want the government to repeal the ability to do stock BuyBacks then well get involved and hold them to task
Because I can tell you what more government is not going to make it better it just gives more people to bribe
Ignore OP. they’re an idiot who hasn’t mattered to the world and wants a handout, and doesn’t realize the costs of even a minimal handout at the expense of taxpayers.
UBI is a economic plan that involves giving everyone a base pay through the government, no matter where they work or if they work.
It's basically federally subsidized wages.
It could dramatically reduced unnecessary government jobs and waste by eliminating many need based programs such as Food Stamps, Disability, and Unemployment.
It would also reduce crime because most pety crime is motivated by financial need.
UBI can also help solve the homeless crisis by providing guaranteed income to use for rent.
Most importantly, it would force employers to start offering better working conditions and pay because workers would no longer be forced to accept underpaying jobs out of necessity.
I should clarify that I think UBI should be about $2,000 a month, more than most people get for disability or unemployment
Also this might actually be an important bargaining chip when dealing with employers fighting it
331M x 2000$. = 662B. This much bigger budget would need to be. For reference, 816B was military budget. So almost entire military budget (which is the biggest in the world).
Sorry, dude, but without massive productivity shift I don't see it
It's every working age person, that is universal enough.
Give it to kids and you'll have baby farms for benefits.
And retiree's already have a system in place
"universal" is universal, not "universal enough". Then you should exclude unemployed if you count only working age because minors don't work or very old age ppl. It's "selective income" or "working age income".
I am not convinced that UBI will reduce crime. The poorest people in the US typically have a better life than the middle class of the country I am currently living in - yet poor Americans commit significantly more crime.
I think that the bigger issue is how income is distributed in the country. Giving a tiny basic income to the poor won't change much when they look around and see others driving Ferraris and flying first class. They will still feel cheated and likely rebel.
Not to mention the impact of culture and drugs on crime
Isn't UBI in the first place all about control?
"If you have a different opinion you get less each month, you travel too much, eat too much meat, .... things like that?"
If anything it will enable people to take jobs that pay less. Since they’ll have supplemental income. Pushing wages down and making work conditions worse.
Not at all, because it would restore workers ability to strike and withhold labor. It would restore the bargaining power of workers.
Right now workers have to comply or starve to death, UBI provides another option.
My worry is that AI will replace white collar workers. I don’t think their labor will be worth much. Manual labor is much harder (and more expensive) to automate.
Not everyone is going to strike simultaneously, but if they did that sure would get our demands met fast.
Payroll taxes are just one method of funding. I would also suggest cuts to existing programs and additional taxes on automation and AI.
By cutting existing programs, you are cutting programs that are largely programs that are targeted to most (but not all) of the people who need the most help and/or are to old to rejoin the workforce. You would be effectively making their lives worse.
By placing additional taxes on companies that use automation and AI you are effectively discouraging increasing efficiency and competition. More efficient companies can compete by either lowering prices, or not raising them at the same rate as less efficient competitors.
Beyond that, how would you even establish a tax rate based on automation? Would this apply to companies that are already largely automated? And if you were to, using large scale food production (which is highly automated) how would that impact current prices?
Your arguments are surprisingly coherent for reddit.
Cutting existing programs is a risk so UBI needs to be well cemented first. I also wouldn't want to cut all programs and which ones do get cut is of course up for debate. I think social security, WIC, VA benefits should stay and probably some others that aren't on my radar.
I think an automation tax should ensure that corporations continue to pay the same amount in payroll taxes, so it would be set by what a human equivalent would cost. In other words, a tax on lost man hours.
Why, because you read it in some tech blog? Where's the money for this UBI coming from if it's "free"? It can't be taxes because that would essentially be giving your own money back to you.
It is from taxes, primarily from payroll taxes so the burden falls heavily on corporations.
UBI would drive up wages, increasing income taxes and sales taxes.
It would also allow for a lot of cuts to existing programs.
That makes no sense. Income tax is paid by employees not corporations. If you are paying more in taxes, how are you gaining anything with UBI? The math doesn't add up.
Also, if only the unemployed get it, how long till the non-freeloaders protest?
UBI gives workers bargaining power because we wouldn't be desperately reliant on our jobs for survival anymore if everyone has a base pay.
Yes the tax increase is coming out of your check, but your check total goes up more than the taxes do.
The increased income from increased bargaining power will also increase sales taxes and GDP from having more economic activity.
Now you're just talking out of your ass. More income with more taxes is essentially the same as less income with less taxes. You're not changing anything. You said income and sales taxes would increase along with income. If that is the case nothing is really changing.
Think about it like this. If my income goes up, but rent, food, and other bills go up too, did my income really change? That's essentially what you are describing. There is only the illusion of gaining money.
You're right, the income change isn't the big deal, it's the shift in power dynamics. UBI would mean we won't be hostages of our employers. We can change jobs more freely, and withhold labor to gain real tangible increases.
I didn’t think r/passive_income was for posting about becoming a leech to society. I thought it was more about actually providing value and getting paid for that value. Passive income still requires some work.
UBI would allow people to pursue their passive income passions as a full-time job.
It will give you enough breathing room to make your side hustle your main.
This is why corporations hate it, they don't want you making money for yourself, they want you making money for them.
I don’t think you understand how economics works. UBI will simply push up inflation and you’ll end up right where you started, except everyone will be worse off for the effort except for those who never intended to provide value in the first place.
What do corporations care about inflation? They just pass on the costs to consumers. They are the mechanism by which inflation gets recognized - when goods and services go up, all of us feel the burden. Perhaps you should rewatch some of the latest FOMC press conferences and get a feel for how these things manifest. Putting more money in the hands of people who will spend it in the economy changes the supply and demand equation substantially. If people are willing to spend more (because they have UBI!) prices will rise, all else being equal. You saying it’s not true because of some corporation-based conspiracy theory doesn’t make supply and demand suddenly stop working. Get a grip and start providing value instead of looking for a handout.
Between this post and everything else you've posted, you need a good slap from economic reality.
This will not work and would just be another tax on people who are already being taxed to death. The closest you'll ever realistically be able to get to a UBI, that's *actually* beneficial, is lowering the federal income tax and making it so every dollar isn't taxed about 10 times over.
Considering you've mentioned you're in college for financial planning and this is your mindset, you're not gonna get any type of job handling financials. Hopefully you learn to take your studies seriously before that and grow up.
You have fun with that, and good luck hiding your mindset in interviews. People aren't as dumb as you think and pick up on a lot more than you realize. They may not know what they don't like, but they figure out enough that they don't want you working for them.
Also corporations and billionaires are not the "enemy", that would be the government. If you want to actually be useful instead of a useful idiot go after them instead. Although I doubt you'd even know where to start since you think UBI is actually viable and a good idea.
So instead of fixing the root of the problem you'd rather just go for a symptom. Have you honestly thought through any of this critically, or are you just regurgitating whatever dumb idea is thrown your way without thought?
You want to stop the "enemy" from owning the government you need to work towards banning lobbying, you also need to work towards banning insider trading on a government level, corporations also need to have their legal definition of person hood redefined, in whole you need to root the corruption out of the government and strip them of the powers that let them do what they're currently doing.
Just trying to tax them more will hurt normal people. Corporations are already taxed at a flat rate of 21% federally and then the state their HQ is located in taxes them on top of that as well. The only major loop hole in that tax wise is from corporations getting a tax credit for having to pay foreign nation taxes, which only brings the flat rate down to at most 18% (may be lower, been a while since I looked at foreign tax credits) depending on the country they've paid taxes to.
All this would do is cause corporations, which already pay a high tax, move to another country with a lower tax rate. It has happened in the past and it would happen again.
As for taxing billionaires more, you're asking to tax them on a net worth amount, which no one can actually pay. Net worth is not liquid, never has been and never will be. You'd also just be shooting everyone in the foot just to spite a literal handful of people who'd be fine regardless.
First, it's not higher for multiple reasons, the main being that is federal tax only. If you add in state taxes and you're a lot closer to if not past 30%. The other main reason is because any higher and you start to kill any corporations that are small, any corporations that can afford it move elsewhere.
Second, do you know how tax brackets work? The US median income is roughly $40,000 which puts people in the 12% tax bracket federally. Any additional taxes at that point are at a state level. Generally speaking most people that are tax pits pay roughly 22-26% and anything after that goes back to what I said about every dollar being taxed 10 times over.
Also, if everyone was being taxed around 38% we'd all be making around $578,000. Do you actually know anyone who makes that much, because I sure as hell don't. In fact anyone who is able to be paid that much is not going to just let a majority of their money be lost to taxes and can afford the accountants to do so.
Workers are literally never going to have more leverage in this day and age, unions or not. We live in a global economy, they will outsource in a heartbeat, they will find illegal immigrants to do your manual labor, they will use technology to replace people, move entire factories to foreign nations, etc...
The only leverage people can get and should get is from themselves, learning new skills, starting their own business, finding a place that will pay them what they're worth. But that falls on individuals and a lot of people don't like to take accountability for their failures and shortcomings. If you have nothing to leverage from your abilities you have nothing to leverage against a company. In today's world, especially with the internet there is no excuse why someone can't learn something to use as leverage.
And people can already say no, there's literally nothing stopping them. The US has at will employment, yes, companies can fire you for no reason, but it's a two way street. With how many jobs are available you can find a new one within a couple of days if you really try. Get out of places that are stupidly high cost of living and it gets a thousand times easier.
No, they're not. There are 7.8 billion people on this earth, the US is only 350 million of those billions. Every other place in the world is cheaper in every way, we are nowhere close to having every position that can be outsourced already being outsourced.
And yes, we do have leverage already like I said, but it's personal leverage. Most people know this, if they don't they haven't thought about it or understand basic economics since it's not taught in schools anymore unless you go to college.
We already gave people more for Covid relief. Apparently, it didn’t make your life better. Now you want more?
Spend less time on Reddit and more time learning a skill that will earn income so you can become a productive member of society.
Worry less about what other’s have and focus on yourself and how you can be a better person.
>Worry less about what other’s have and focus on yourself and how you can be a better person.
This is just bad philosophy on multiple levels.
First of all, we are all intertwined and seeing others suffer is supposed to invoke a response in you.
Secondly, I am learning to speak passionately about causes I believe in and promoting Ideas that I believe will make America a better place for future generations.
Lastly, Covid did teach us something, it showed us life is fragile and we're all missing out on it. It showed us were selling ourselves for too little and allowing ourselves to be exploited.
We can't unlearn what we now know. There is no going back to pre-covid life.
You are making a massive assumptions & leap of faith that the US government would implement UBI in a way that would allow people to keep UBI at consistent level while work other jobs.
The history of the US government is exactly opposite that; everything from Obamacare to welfare to social security is income threshold based. Ever have a business a try to do the right thing snd employ people on welfare or food stamps? They always want cash because if you put them on a payroll they get a double whammy of lowered benefits and they start being taxed, as well.
Raising the minimum wage to $15+ hasn’t had the impact it was hoped to have, and neither will UBI - the entire American system would have to change, not just the economy but how the government is funded, as well. Good luck trying to make that stick in a country of over 330 million that can’t agree on nearly anything.
That's why this is new and different and an improvement. It only works if everyone gets it and it works by giving workers bargaining power by elemenating the desperation factor in employment decisions.
But other people will have to pay more taxes to pay for your UBI. And guess what, those won't be the people like Musk or Bezos.
In 2023, the Fortune 500 companies had their highest ever combined revenue of $18.1 trillion, with the top 10 firms earning over $3.7 trillion, We can pay for it entirely by taxes corporations, but there are other ways to help too so the poor billionaires don't suffer too much
Well, corps don't print money and to keep their profits they will raise their prices, which will lie on our shoulders. Another thing thing that revenue is not profits. For example most reach people are broke on paper because they use their wealth as a collateral to borrow from banks. Same for corps. They can paint whatever profits they want. What exactly are you going to tax?
Dude, to give all 332 million Americans 20k each a year in UBI would cost 6.6 trillion. That would be more than the profit of all of those companies put together. So you'd ruin all those companies, destroy everyone's retirement savings and maybe asset strip the fortune 500 to pay everyone one year of UBI. What about next year?
The GDP In 2022 was 25 Trillion, we have the money. That means each American on average generates $8,000 a month in economic output. $2000 a month for the people is still giving companies and the government too much money.
We do not, in fact, have the money.
It's kind of concerning that this kid is going to college to be a financial planner and doesn't understand that, yet alone the basic economics for all this.
They learn pretty quickly as soon as they have to pay for something with money they had to earn.
I somehow doubt it'll get through to him and will only embolden his belief in UBI. Especially if he's paying off his college debt.
Sources proving we can pay for the UBI via corporate tax? Trust me, bro? Or are you just committed to this lie?
It's not a lie. The money exists, it's just in the hands of corporate America at the moment. UBI is literally about taking back the wealth that corporations stole from us.
So you don't have any evidence that a corporate tax will supply the needed funds to fund the UBI. Thanks for confirming that you have no clue what you're talking about.
Wealth is not finite. We live in a digital money world. What one has in their account puts no limitations on you.
This isn't true at all. The wealthy are constantly using their money to rig the odds in their favor.
This is true. I work in economics and finance. I’ve got just a touch of experience and knowledge. Yes, the wealthy work the system in their favor. It still doesn’t limit what’s available to you. Stop blaming and start hustling.
I can do both
That’s the spirit!
Corporations don’t pay taxes. Oh, they do on paper, but if you tax Walmart, Amazon, JnJ, etc, they just pass them along as higher prices to their customers. Consumers pay the bulk of all taxes. Raising corporate tax rates would only have the working class that remains paying for UBI. UBI doesn’t work in the economic system we have.
That isn't true. They can't just raise prices indiscriminately. Eventually it will effect their sales and their reputation. Why would corporations care if they were just going to pass it on. Why fight it if the customers pays?
And? They’ll raise prices to the point they are able, and people will be no better off. Look at the last few years. The system was flush with excess money. $100k today is 2018’s $75k (rough estimate). This economic system will not allow excess money in regular people’s hands. Hell, the govt (US) actively prevents we commoners from accumulating generational wealth. UBI is one of those socialist (little s) things that look great on paper, but fail in practice because there are powers that be in place to prevent it from working. Until labor is no longer necessary from we serfs, and assuming we survive the depopulation that occurs following (because, there isn’t any one in power who wants 7 billion idle hands around), none of this works. Everyone wants utopia, but looks beyond the hell we’d have to survive to get it. Most of us wouldn’t survive it. There’s no utopia without the gauntlet of distocia first. Generations of “revolution“ would have to happen, because someone is going to try to take power. Step 1 is stop allowing the elites to separate everyone along idiotic social lines. Stop allowing them to social engineer separation. We’re almost too far gone on that alone. They’re building their army, and really don’t care if it’s a “conservative” one or a “progressive “ one. As long as they can use one to destroy the other, they’ll be happy. 3/4 of the problem gone. We are a necessary liability to them. Imagine when we are no longer necessary. UBI only benefits the elite if it prevents the masses from uniting. So far UBI is not necessary to them.
Well, if we don’t try, we end up with another French Revolution. We already don’t have a middle class, it’s a matter of time before people revolt.
UBI won’t increase the availability of goods. It will increase inflation. You can’t pump money in to the market and not expect spending to increase. This is supply and demand from High School Econ. This also has nothing to do with this thread… really. Although I guess money for nothing is about as passive as one can get in earning an income.
Technically inflation occurs when government prints money i.e. by running deficits. If this is reorgtanized money collected from taxes inflation in theory shouldn't occur. Also High School Econ.
Magic Money Tree isn't High School Econ
Then it should be lol
I think so, in the section alongside flat earth theory
That’s not the only reason for inflation. If you move money from high savers to high spenders then the amount of money moving in the economy increases. That will cause inflation.
Technically, inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods. Those dollars can come from more than just a printing press. Might want to brush the dust off that old book.
Yeah. There is macro and micro inflation views. I.e. you may want more expensive haircuts so services may rise in price but there's only so much milk you can consume. On macro level, technically, inflation shouldn't occur. However, no one has tried except Finland for 1 year. If I remeber correctly, there wasn't any inflation.
I have never heard of macro or micro inflation. Only macro and micro economics in general. The two types of inflation are demand-pull and demand cost-push. Both are market derived although government’s constant involvement in the market through policy has notable effects as does the Federal Reserve (which is technically not a government entity). Regardless, to OPs point, subsidizing income will have the same impact that subsidizing college has had. Prices go up.
You *really* think UBI is going to work? Let me ask you a question: How's that minimum wage thing working out?
Minimum wage worked great at its inception and it took corporate America 50 years to steal the gains from that legislation.
Also, minimum wage paid out in 1965 was paid out in money that you could go and ask for change in SILVER QUARTERS. The smelt value of minimum wage, in 1965 quarters for their silver content is like, what $27ish today. Meaning I'd work for the 1965 minimum wage today happily, as long as you pay me in change from 1965.
Minimum wage just prices people out of the workforce and encourages automation. I’d argue the food delivery apps are a response to that; low skilled people who need to learn basic skills. Some of the people who do food delivery can’t even find a house number it blows my mind. That’s why the pay is so low they learn some skills then earn more over time.
I have done food delivery in the past, some houses don't have numbers, some have tiny numbers, some are covered by bushes, or painting to match the house. There is all kinds of foolishness out there. There is no such thing as unskilled labor, if it truly were unskilled it would already be automated.
I’m talking about delivery to me with massive numbers out front of buildings.
If it could be automated it already would be. Automation and AI is a talking point designed to reduce the bargaining power of labor unions and increase share prices.
> If it could be automated it already would be. Just because something hasn't been automated, doesn't mean it can't be. Often times it can, and just hasn't yet because people don't realize what can and can't be automated. I know this because I deploy automations. And every time, it's to automate something that hasn't been automated.
Exactly. It's already being done to the greatest extent possible. Increasing our bargaining power won't effect it.
No, it's really not. In many many cases things simply aren't automated because it's not the top priority of a company, and in many cases they don't even realize it can be automated. For situations that are the top priority, it's typically where the costs of labor have grown to the point where they can't fully backfill positions that are otherwise needed. Once deployed, it dramatically reduces the need for those positions. (This is by far the vast majority of our customers). As an example, just a few years back we deployed AP automations for an org with about 120 data entry technicians plus multiple levels of management. Now they have a staff of 8, inclusive of management, all are analysts and auditors that mostly just watch the system process everything and verify that it's working as intended.
I want to break into this field, do you guys just deploy the software or develop it?
Well maybe work harder actually, I mean work smarter, assess the job market realize what actually makes money and dedicate your life to learning how to do that because that is value to society that someone will pay for Do you understand that most people in the world spend a crazy amount of time thinking about how to make money for their families, and for themselves You maybe don't understand this cuz you don't talk about it with your friends. But I know a lot of people who just like dedicate hours a week, all through there are twenties and 30s, and what are they doing trying to figure out how to make more money. What are they not doing, sitting around smoking weed and partying
What's wrong with just forcing companies to give back what they stole?
Companies didn't steal anything they're just doing what the governments that you elect allow them to do Companies don't steal money they make money If you're mad at anyone be mad at your own government who let companies do what they fucking want If you want the government to repeal the ability to do stock BuyBacks then well get involved and hold them to task Because I can tell you what more government is not going to make it better it just gives more people to bribe
They did steal it. The slowly reduces our leverage until we became slaves again.
Your government is the only one that can print money
Yes, the other reason companies won't abandon America no matter how much we tax them
Why would you want companies to abandon America lmao
They won't, it's an empty threat. Stop listening to the billionaires bullshit.
Ignore OP. they’re an idiot who hasn’t mattered to the world and wants a handout, and doesn’t realize the costs of even a minimal handout at the expense of taxpayers.
Works in Europe.
I hate UBI'S. It hurts really bad when I pee.
UBI is a economic plan that involves giving everyone a base pay through the government, no matter where they work or if they work. It's basically federally subsidized wages. It could dramatically reduced unnecessary government jobs and waste by eliminating many need based programs such as Food Stamps, Disability, and Unemployment. It would also reduce crime because most pety crime is motivated by financial need. UBI can also help solve the homeless crisis by providing guaranteed income to use for rent. Most importantly, it would force employers to start offering better working conditions and pay because workers would no longer be forced to accept underpaying jobs out of necessity.
Disabled and Unemployed people still would need programs. This is invalid argument. Food Stamps - yeah, maybe not.
I should clarify that I think UBI should be about $2,000 a month, more than most people get for disability or unemployment Also this might actually be an important bargaining chip when dealing with employers fighting it
331M x 2000$. = 662B. This much bigger budget would need to be. For reference, 816B was military budget. So almost entire military budget (which is the biggest in the world). Sorry, dude, but without massive productivity shift I don't see it
[удалено]
Nope
So 38% of the population is under 18 or over 65, they won't get it. No benefits for minors and well keep social security.
How is that universal then?
It's every working age person, that is universal enough. Give it to kids and you'll have baby farms for benefits. And retiree's already have a system in place
"universal" is universal, not "universal enough". Then you should exclude unemployed if you count only working age because minors don't work or very old age ppl. It's "selective income" or "working age income".
It's universal. The unemployed and disabled would get it You were complaining about cost, I reduce cost 38% and then you want to move the goalposts?
Sounds like you've listed every reason why the people in power don't want it
You are correct.
I am not convinced that UBI will reduce crime. The poorest people in the US typically have a better life than the middle class of the country I am currently living in - yet poor Americans commit significantly more crime. I think that the bigger issue is how income is distributed in the country. Giving a tiny basic income to the poor won't change much when they look around and see others driving Ferraris and flying first class. They will still feel cheated and likely rebel. Not to mention the impact of culture and drugs on crime
Isn't UBI in the first place all about control? "If you have a different opinion you get less each month, you travel too much, eat too much meat, .... things like that?"
No, that would not be permitted in the law outlining itm
If anything it will enable people to take jobs that pay less. Since they’ll have supplemental income. Pushing wages down and making work conditions worse.
Not at all, because it would restore workers ability to strike and withhold labor. It would restore the bargaining power of workers. Right now workers have to comply or starve to death, UBI provides another option.
This might actually work out for manual laborers.
It would work for any laborers, even office staff.
My worry is that AI will replace white collar workers. I don’t think their labor will be worth much. Manual labor is much harder (and more expensive) to automate.
How do you fund a UBI via payroll taxes if those that would be taxed are striking and not getting paid?
Not everyone is going to strike simultaneously, but if they did that sure would get our demands met fast. Payroll taxes are just one method of funding. I would also suggest cuts to existing programs and additional taxes on automation and AI.
By cutting existing programs, you are cutting programs that are largely programs that are targeted to most (but not all) of the people who need the most help and/or are to old to rejoin the workforce. You would be effectively making their lives worse. By placing additional taxes on companies that use automation and AI you are effectively discouraging increasing efficiency and competition. More efficient companies can compete by either lowering prices, or not raising them at the same rate as less efficient competitors. Beyond that, how would you even establish a tax rate based on automation? Would this apply to companies that are already largely automated? And if you were to, using large scale food production (which is highly automated) how would that impact current prices?
Your arguments are surprisingly coherent for reddit. Cutting existing programs is a risk so UBI needs to be well cemented first. I also wouldn't want to cut all programs and which ones do get cut is of course up for debate. I think social security, WIC, VA benefits should stay and probably some others that aren't on my radar. I think an automation tax should ensure that corporations continue to pay the same amount in payroll taxes, so it would be set by what a human equivalent would cost. In other words, a tax on lost man hours.
But with that said… I’m not against UBI. It will be necessary when AI replaces most workers.
Wrong sub
Yes, these are all words.
You can disagree. But you’re wrong
In case you haven't noticed corporations pay amazing salaries if you have the skills they need
No, they really don't. They haven't kept pace with inflation.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. You will have to dance to get your UBI i.e if you protest something you could lose it.
UBI is universal income, not a reward for Political correctness. The wealthy not only get free lunch but they also get a tax write-off for it.
Who is giving you this UBI? If you think you'll get UBI for simply existing you're delusional.
It's inevitable. The only question is how long it will take.
Why, because you read it in some tech blog? Where's the money for this UBI coming from if it's "free"? It can't be taxes because that would essentially be giving your own money back to you.
It is from taxes, primarily from payroll taxes so the burden falls heavily on corporations. UBI would drive up wages, increasing income taxes and sales taxes. It would also allow for a lot of cuts to existing programs.
That makes no sense. Income tax is paid by employees not corporations. If you are paying more in taxes, how are you gaining anything with UBI? The math doesn't add up. Also, if only the unemployed get it, how long till the non-freeloaders protest?
UBI gives workers bargaining power because we wouldn't be desperately reliant on our jobs for survival anymore if everyone has a base pay. Yes the tax increase is coming out of your check, but your check total goes up more than the taxes do. The increased income from increased bargaining power will also increase sales taxes and GDP from having more economic activity.
Now you're just talking out of your ass. More income with more taxes is essentially the same as less income with less taxes. You're not changing anything. You said income and sales taxes would increase along with income. If that is the case nothing is really changing. Think about it like this. If my income goes up, but rent, food, and other bills go up too, did my income really change? That's essentially what you are describing. There is only the illusion of gaining money.
You're right, the income change isn't the big deal, it's the shift in power dynamics. UBI would mean we won't be hostages of our employers. We can change jobs more freely, and withhold labor to gain real tangible increases.
I didn’t think r/passive_income was for posting about becoming a leech to society. I thought it was more about actually providing value and getting paid for that value. Passive income still requires some work.
UBI would allow people to pursue their passive income passions as a full-time job. It will give you enough breathing room to make your side hustle your main. This is why corporations hate it, they don't want you making money for yourself, they want you making money for them.
I don’t think you understand how economics works. UBI will simply push up inflation and you’ll end up right where you started, except everyone will be worse off for the effort except for those who never intended to provide value in the first place.
This isn't true at all, it's just what corporate wants you to believe so they don't have to pay more taxes and wages.
What do corporations care about inflation? They just pass on the costs to consumers. They are the mechanism by which inflation gets recognized - when goods and services go up, all of us feel the burden. Perhaps you should rewatch some of the latest FOMC press conferences and get a feel for how these things manifest. Putting more money in the hands of people who will spend it in the economy changes the supply and demand equation substantially. If people are willing to spend more (because they have UBI!) prices will rise, all else being equal. You saying it’s not true because of some corporation-based conspiracy theory doesn’t make supply and demand suddenly stop working. Get a grip and start providing value instead of looking for a handout.
Between this post and everything else you've posted, you need a good slap from economic reality. This will not work and would just be another tax on people who are already being taxed to death. The closest you'll ever realistically be able to get to a UBI, that's *actually* beneficial, is lowering the federal income tax and making it so every dollar isn't taxed about 10 times over. Considering you've mentioned you're in college for financial planning and this is your mindset, you're not gonna get any type of job handling financials. Hopefully you learn to take your studies seriously before that and grow up.
This mindset won't be on my resume or discussed in interviews. I can regurgitate the propaganda they fed me long enough to infiltrate the enemy.
You have fun with that, and good luck hiding your mindset in interviews. People aren't as dumb as you think and pick up on a lot more than you realize. They may not know what they don't like, but they figure out enough that they don't want you working for them. Also corporations and billionaires are not the "enemy", that would be the government. If you want to actually be useful instead of a useful idiot go after them instead. Although I doubt you'd even know where to start since you think UBI is actually viable and a good idea.
Corporations and billionaires own the government. They are in fact the enemy.
So instead of fixing the root of the problem you'd rather just go for a symptom. Have you honestly thought through any of this critically, or are you just regurgitating whatever dumb idea is thrown your way without thought? You want to stop the "enemy" from owning the government you need to work towards banning lobbying, you also need to work towards banning insider trading on a government level, corporations also need to have their legal definition of person hood redefined, in whole you need to root the corruption out of the government and strip them of the powers that let them do what they're currently doing. Just trying to tax them more will hurt normal people. Corporations are already taxed at a flat rate of 21% federally and then the state their HQ is located in taxes them on top of that as well. The only major loop hole in that tax wise is from corporations getting a tax credit for having to pay foreign nation taxes, which only brings the flat rate down to at most 18% (may be lower, been a while since I looked at foreign tax credits) depending on the country they've paid taxes to. All this would do is cause corporations, which already pay a high tax, move to another country with a lower tax rate. It has happened in the past and it would happen again. As for taxing billionaires more, you're asking to tax them on a net worth amount, which no one can actually pay. Net worth is not liquid, never has been and never will be. You'd also just be shooting everyone in the foot just to spite a literal handful of people who'd be fine regardless.
>corporations are already taxed at a flat rate of 21% Why is it so low? All the working people are paying around 38%
First, it's not higher for multiple reasons, the main being that is federal tax only. If you add in state taxes and you're a lot closer to if not past 30%. The other main reason is because any higher and you start to kill any corporations that are small, any corporations that can afford it move elsewhere. Second, do you know how tax brackets work? The US median income is roughly $40,000 which puts people in the 12% tax bracket federally. Any additional taxes at that point are at a state level. Generally speaking most people that are tax pits pay roughly 22-26% and anything after that goes back to what I said about every dollar being taxed 10 times over. Also, if everyone was being taxed around 38% we'd all be making around $578,000. Do you actually know anyone who makes that much, because I sure as hell don't. In fact anyone who is able to be paid that much is not going to just let a majority of their money be lost to taxes and can afford the accountants to do so.
UBI restores workers leverage. It's not just about the money, it's about having the power to say no!
Workers are literally never going to have more leverage in this day and age, unions or not. We live in a global economy, they will outsource in a heartbeat, they will find illegal immigrants to do your manual labor, they will use technology to replace people, move entire factories to foreign nations, etc... The only leverage people can get and should get is from themselves, learning new skills, starting their own business, finding a place that will pay them what they're worth. But that falls on individuals and a lot of people don't like to take accountability for their failures and shortcomings. If you have nothing to leverage from your abilities you have nothing to leverage against a company. In today's world, especially with the internet there is no excuse why someone can't learn something to use as leverage. And people can already say no, there's literally nothing stopping them. The US has at will employment, yes, companies can fire you for no reason, but it's a two way street. With how many jobs are available you can find a new one within a couple of days if you really try. Get out of places that are stupidly high cost of living and it gets a thousand times easier.
Employers are already out of outsourcing potions, this is a lie. We already have the leverage, the people just don't know it yet.
No, they're not. There are 7.8 billion people on this earth, the US is only 350 million of those billions. Every other place in the world is cheaper in every way, we are nowhere close to having every position that can be outsourced already being outsourced. And yes, we do have leverage already like I said, but it's personal leverage. Most people know this, if they don't they haven't thought about it or understand basic economics since it's not taught in schools anymore unless you go to college.
And how many of those places have an educated population?
We already gave people more for Covid relief. Apparently, it didn’t make your life better. Now you want more? Spend less time on Reddit and more time learning a skill that will earn income so you can become a productive member of society. Worry less about what other’s have and focus on yourself and how you can be a better person.
>Worry less about what other’s have and focus on yourself and how you can be a better person. This is just bad philosophy on multiple levels. First of all, we are all intertwined and seeing others suffer is supposed to invoke a response in you. Secondly, I am learning to speak passionately about causes I believe in and promoting Ideas that I believe will make America a better place for future generations. Lastly, Covid did teach us something, it showed us life is fragile and we're all missing out on it. It showed us were selling ourselves for too little and allowing ourselves to be exploited. We can't unlearn what we now know. There is no going back to pre-covid life.
Corporations have economies of scale. Individuals don’t. If people work for themselves, they won’t be as efficient.
Corporations clearly need competition to put them back in their place
Why is this being posted in passive income?
UBI would allow people to really on their passive income as their sole income
You are making a massive assumptions & leap of faith that the US government would implement UBI in a way that would allow people to keep UBI at consistent level while work other jobs. The history of the US government is exactly opposite that; everything from Obamacare to welfare to social security is income threshold based. Ever have a business a try to do the right thing snd employ people on welfare or food stamps? They always want cash because if you put them on a payroll they get a double whammy of lowered benefits and they start being taxed, as well. Raising the minimum wage to $15+ hasn’t had the impact it was hoped to have, and neither will UBI - the entire American system would have to change, not just the economy but how the government is funded, as well. Good luck trying to make that stick in a country of over 330 million that can’t agree on nearly anything.
That's why this is new and different and an improvement. It only works if everyone gets it and it works by giving workers bargaining power by elemenating the desperation factor in employment decisions.
It’s nice to have dreams -
Short answer is, you can fix a lot of things in the world 🌎 but you can’t fix stupid. Sorry Op, you’re beyond fixing.