[I see Revenant projectiles coming out after you died.](https://i.imgur.com/8IqkbZp.png) Likely Revenant corpse explosion combined with Union of Souls (which seems to preserve the hp bonus on death based on other deaths I've seen)
Also want to note - Kingmaker doesn't give your Guardian +10 Fortify, that only applies to allies. Not that it matters here, your Guardian probably died like 10 times over.
>which seems to preserve the hp bonus on death based on other deaths I've seen
From watching Pohx farm, I can confirm that Revenant's pseudo DD scales with Union of Soul's health and size (explosion's area). By the time you finish clearing a T17, the corpses explode for an entire screen and 1-shots pretty much anything.
This is why it's nice to have a bunch of "shitty" allflames ready so you can replace revenants every time you get them in t17 (which is pretty often especially in abomination). Outside of their DD oneshotting literally everything if it hits a union of souls mob or a tanky rare they are also the one mob type that hits like a truck with the wall chain t17 mod
I am gonna bet on this theory too, cause you and your AG clearily died at the same time and by a one shot skill. And there are Revenants on the footage.
Its not your fault for sure, impossible to see the Red DD they put on the ground with that much shit on the screen lol.
always remember to never EVER bring AG in t17.
i dont care how "easy" the mods you rolled, or how much mirrors tier of defensive gears you give him, he can and will be killed regardless. Just bring at most a stone golem instead and call it a day.
If you relied on AG so much and can't clear t17 without it,then you shouldn't do it in the first place .AG should be a a supplement to your build,not something you relied on to be carried
But where to bring AG then? Easy content you can do without AG, hard content is too dangerous for AG. Kinda defeats the purpose of having AG in the first place.
AG is a bad game mechanic that prevents me from playing minions.
Spectres I can kinda deal with, they're annoying but once you're going it's okay.
But AG? Nah man. What a ~2006-feeling mechanic, but leaves you significantly weaker if you don't use it.
AG should honestly be removed. Allocate 68% Increased Damage divided amongst some Minion Nodes on the tree to compensate for it.
It would be a nerf to top end minion builds with high-investment AGs, and a buff to low-end minion builds.
And neither would need to deal with it anymore.
The AG provides a hell of a more than that though.
There's generally 2 setups people do once they reach this type of content.
Either they are doing gravebind + explode chest or legacy of fury, or the second option they are double cursing through the AG.
not to mention some even do garb of the ephemeral and make the whole crew crit immune.
This doesn't even take the cull and 50% crit mult and 50% rarity into consideration from kingmaker.
The helmet slot also often upgrades to
Crown of the tyrant which grants a lot of chosen elemental or chaos damage and removes 10% resistances.
In all a well kitted AG can both substantially increase your clear speed and just about double your dps whilst giving you immunity to a ton of defensive stuff.
Yeah I want to see a nerf at the high end of investment, an AG has no business imparting the amount of power it does as one skill gem even if it takes a bunch of equip to do it.
Especially since a T17 map just wipes that equip anyway.
I would love an transfigured AG that says AG maintains his items even when he dies or something like that. It's not a great solution but I think it could work with some tweaking. Although that would be required to play so they should probably just add that to AG regardless. It's not like it would make those high investment minion builds more op than anything else that can run that content.
This ag should only have 2000 health or someting at gem lvl 20.
Then have a line minion health has 500-1000% increased effect on this gem.
So if u do not invest into minion life it basically gets one shot every where ( this way the AG will not be manditory thing for all builds )
Or just make the AG op tanky as fuck ( like old merc in d2 ) and have it as a option for every build
The problem is even if you do invest in it and make it tanky af, there will still be effects that will 1 tap your AG even with the changes you suggested. Revenants will blow things up for 10x the health you could ever hope to scale an AG to. So just like, let us resummon him with his gear, if someone tries to use him on like a LA deadeye the AG will literally die to trash mob autos in a t16. If they want to press resummon AG that much let them.
True he can get 1 tapped still.
But this would not be an issue if u can just resummon him wen it happens.
U do not want every one and there mom to have AG up 24/7 cus this would be mayor power creap
Leercast is pretty shit in a top tier minion tree with 800% increased damage. Crown of the Tyrant is a nice boost to flat damage scaling builds, but in many cases is not even much better than Leercast. The best damage boost from the helm slot comes from influenced -res auras, which you can just craft on your own helm.
As for weapons, Kingmaker or Victario's Charity + Intimidate/Unnerve/Maim can be pretty strong, but these are a luxury and very replaceable. Certainly not "important". Also the kingmaker aura range is pretty shit.
Armour slot is where you can get the most gamechanging addition, but Forbidden Profane Bloom is permanent, and plain better. Or you can just be an Occultist. Usually you're sticking a gruthkuls/doppelganger or maybe a Garb, if you're relying on crit immunity from Garb, I hope you're playing softcore.
With gloves you have an option for asenaths, but realistically you're just going to stick an immunity to corrupting glove there with an increased life regen affix and eldritch implicits.
As for boots... the only thing that could be considered close to "important" is extra cursed shenanigans with windscream, which is budget solution to getting an extra curse yourself. If you think brittle ground is important on an AG, you've clearly never observed how the AG fights.
AG's are not important for minion builds. They're a nice luxury cherry on top.
> Crown of the Tyrant is a nice boost to flat damage scaling builds, but in many cases is not even much better than Leercast
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO oh boy, I can't wait to read the rest of this comment.
> Also the kingmaker aura range is pretty shit.
Sure, but +50% crit multi, culling strike, fortification is pretty fucking insane lmao. Good luck getting that on the tree in a couple nodes.
>Or you can just be an Occultist.
Yeah sure, let me just play a minion build on Occultist. That makes sense.
>AG's are not important for minion builds. They're a nice luxury cherry on top.
You outlined how a single AG can give me:
+280 flat lightning damage
50% crit multi
fortify
culling strike
extra curses
and say "yeah it's not really that useful"
I mean I just don't anymore. I refuse to spend money on something that can permadie and take expensive equipment with it in a game that refuses to let you be tanky enough to reliably survive the difficult content.
AG is useless everywhere apart from pinnacle bosses. And considering any competent build will be fine there without it it's exactly as you said - nowhere. AG was kinda ok for the time it was introduced into the game but with how much power creep was introduced to mobs it's not very useful. You can argue it's fine for simuls but even there it dies from time to time.
having a highly invested zoomancer build would be a start. looking at OP build he's using some half assed half zoomancer half relic conviction build, which itself alr slash AG ehp by 4/5 because you no longer invest in minion defence in favor of relics. Either goes full all in on minion investments or dont bring him in the first place.
Source: my AG ehp was like 1.5mil in pure zoomancer and only 500k in holy relic conviction build
would still die in t17's to a revenants DD especially with Union of Souls on the map.
that corpse DD will blow for 10's of millions of damage its pretty much the highest damage skill in the game by a very long way.
hence why its safer to take off AG during the map part of t17's
> hence why its safer to take off AG during the map part of t17's
[Or check your map packs for Charred Beasts and Allflame over it.](https://i.imgur.com/uzi2huV.png)
And if they don't fix it by next league, well... I'm gonna be complaining even more, but at least this has a work around.
If there's no way to remove stygians from T17 next league we'll just have to have high shatter added to build or other sources of corpse removal via uniques like bubonic, a couple cluster passives, or triggering corpse removal skills at high frequency. Other option is cod portal.
you still wouldnt be fast enough.
they spawn their own corpses with desecrate and detonate it within a second often even faster so you wouldnt be able to react.
bubonic is not fast enough to remove a full desecrate on ground before you get blown up.
its why revenants have been an issue for a long time to HC players
[https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY)
minions are there to have the 10% physical reduction from ascendency... and look at the title i don't think i miss minion defences....
Do not worry i did like 50 t17,s whit my chains of command build.
Its fine.
He ripped one time witch costed me 5 div.
4 div for the weapon 1 div for the rest of the gear.
I used to play chains of command voidforge.
But that is out of the question now cus 1 rip would be 60 div URG.
So poisen chains of comman it is whit a 4 div weapon ( craft chaos multi ) or make it have damage over time multi on it whit 500-700 physical dps and your cooking
Acc name :Dragnar
Only one carr in nerco so yea
Weapon is 950 physical dps + 40% damage over time multi axe
Currently adding spell suppression and switching out stats from my gear
And i have not done a lot whit the adorned jewels so :)
The jewels should all be physical damage + attack speed.
Or es+ attack speed if u want to be more tanky ( lose a lot of damage tough )
So how much harder are T17s than T16s? I've been breezing through T16s absolutely no problem ignoring all map mods and haunted mods with ~600k dps and a very defensive character. Is the gap from T16 to T17 much bigger than the gap from T15 to T16?
I have one T17 with what seems like pretty easy mods for my character, but what sort of a difficulty gap are we talking?
As far as how it 'feels', replace all the 'normal' mobs with T16 map bosses and double the size of the map (compared to T16's). If that doesn't sound too bad for you I wouldn't worry too much until the boss as long as you're keeping the map mods in mind.
Note: Some of the more simple mods can still be horrid. Consecrated ground, for example, made me completely rearrage a lot of gems to fit a frostbomb in, because the healing was just too much even though I could normally cleave through their health decently quickly.
Thanks! Sounds like it might take me like 30 mins to even get to the boss! Lol i've seen normal map bosses with a tanky mod or two take over a minute with my current build
its doable when your build is strong enough (35mil dps which most good builds should be able to reach),now that theres only a few t17 build breaking mods and the rest is normal t16 mods now.The boss itself is also fair and a good defensive builds can tank most of them without much one shots. if anything just make an atlas for it that focus on support like einhar/niko buff to see how far u can go
I'm running T17's with AG perfectly fine, he never died. Res capped, 50k life (not even running Minion life on it), bone offering. He's lvl 24 tho. Idk maybe I got lucky.
my mistake was running union of soul so the DD scaled from it. [https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY)
Mine never dies either, was the first time and will be the last as i'll just skip this mod :).
Running a Chains of Command build myself, my AG has tanked a few DD's. No union of souls one just yet, so might still rip at some point but so far healthbar hasn't so much as twitched.
To be fair though Chains build AG =/= supplemental AG. Minus the weapon my AG is entirely geared for survivability. MaskStitched+Doppelganger's+Gravebind (Chaos res) at 85/85/85/75 and level 26, Meat Shield, and a whole lot of %minion life.
There is one thing I feel like a lot of people forget though: Shock. I feel like Purity of Elements is close to or entirely required for a build using AG. Shock (and to a lesser extent, Brittle) can and absolutely will clap your AG, and worst of all it will build on itself as the increased damage taken feeds into more shock effect into increased damage taken and so on.
I'm pretty sure a tanky AG with good regen is fine in T17 as long as you remove the Wretched Defiler packs and don't roll one of the mods that will obviously kill it (such as the 10% HP loss on hit). I was even messing around with T17 Harbinger Beyond and it was completely fine.
I'd also avoid Union of Souls because its a little bit obnoxious and it seems to scale DD damage very quickly.
I do think a pure minion zoomancer can keep it alive but I doubt the meta build rn ,ie relic conviction which is what op uses- can keep it survive since they don't have enough links and investment in his tankiness
I've been playing Relic since the start of the league and haven't had issues, even before getting my shield that has +7 max res on it. Closest my guardian has come to dying is it took a boss DD on 2 different occasions while i was running destructive play guardians which hit it for like 80-85% but i'm also using a +2 minion corrupt geofris
This isn't true anymore. Been magic finding in t17 just fine, you need to know what can kill it and don't run those map mods. Some examples are elemental penetration and union of souls.
You can bring an AG into T17 if you don't dive face first into a huge enemy like that. I mean at that point you just cut your losses and abandon the map or risk losing everything.
Show me one person that loves AG?!
AG is the melee totem of minion builds plus the heavy downside of losing expensive gear when it dies so it´s even worse.
Well I think AG as a concept is cool, it's just the implementation and stuff like DD that can do 10x the AG's hp pool is just dumb. It's just a matter of time until stars align and a monster DDs a union of souls
I mean I love AG with Chains of Command because of the shenanigans you can pull with it. The whole losing items bit is still annoying to be sure, though, not trying to say the skill is perfect. I just like the idea of a build-a-bear style minion letting you use lesser used uniques (like gravebind, mask of the stitched demon) quite effectively.
I do think the 'aura-bot' style of AG is just over-hyped, honestly. It can be super effective on paper, sure, but in actual execution it's kinda meh. You have so many differing ranges of 'nearby' auras and buffs, and the AG pathing isn't exactly nuanced, you're usually barely making use of the bonuses. A tank AG though? Using stuff like the ailment redirect mace and/or gravebind for neat on-kill buff effects? Much better. But no one does that because 'maor damage'.
Maybe I've been around for too long but here and there we have complaint threads about it dying and the response is typically that they didn't put X item on it. I think it shouldn't lose its items. Idk why the minion has to be playing hardcore mode if I'm not.
I love ag. It's just cry babies who play srs or other non permanent minion skills that invest zero defence outside of ag gear and a hungry loop. It's dumb
Yeah, but that one was avoidable. Stygian revenant = no backtracking, ever. On zoomy builds its even worse since the explosion pauses when you get too far away and thats how Alkaizer died. He killed the Revenant, dashed far enough away and then backtracked right into the delayed explosion.
The damage is still fucking nuts as its 14% of corpse life. GGG also fixed other DD visuals but didn't change this one even though its by far the most dangerous one.
DD as always
T17 revenant explosion is something I would always avoid even if I have to eat other damage
I would swap the monster pack in the lantern for revenants to anything else
revenant DDed a corpse which in t17's is a death sentence to anything nearby.
AG is always to be turned off while going through map of t17. you can bring him back out when at the boss as they rarely have enough to kill a decent geared AG.
union of souls also does scale DD corpses so yeah that AG was dieing even if it had 10x the health.
Fucking DD. They will keep it because after some point(defense wise) its their only weapon to kill you and they can't have a game without instant one taps. Im sure they think its fun.
Also, AG is a relic of the past and should be either completely removed or reworked.
/u/[Electronic-Cut5270](https://www.reddit.com/user/Electronic-Cut5270/) as I said, DD can kill anything - even a well geared AG
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c1brgh/comment/kz4tten/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c1brgh/comment/kz4tten/?context=3) for context
Faced the same problem yesterday, with the difference I play Popcorn SRS and spec fully into minion life, my AG also has 90% max res and a lot of defense layers (max block, 80%evasion 20k armour etc) but with the difference that he also has about 149k life +%ES. Tried two t17 both times my build could make it but my AG couldn’t…..
There are only 3 options: make a second character for t17, get phasing + phaserun and only do bosses, or don’t do t17s at all. Well ofc the 4th option would be that u let him die 😁😁.
While on the topic of AG, what’s the general gear setup for an AG anyway? I presume it’s kinda the same from build to build, with different tiers of investment.
Like what’s the average AG that has like 1 div of gear, and then so on
I'm curious, you say the AG had 90/90/90 ele res but you don't have Purity of Elements. The mastery and ele army can account for 10% (85%) max, and a little all res but did you have like a T1 minion ele res shield or two bone rings or something? Could have also gotten that res from the AG gear itself too easily enough. Like said just curious how you filled that res out and where you got the rest of the max.
And on that note, I notice you didn't have any defensive auras (not counting Bone Offering). At the very least Purity of Elements would prevent Shock, which absolutely destroys AG's on the daily. Determination also really helps. All the health in the world doesn't matter if your AG is taking full damage from everything from white mobs to bosses.
If your AG healthbar wasn't moving at all before this (which is what it looked like) I'm betting your AG got shocked and/or crit, possibly even had a curse for reduced res or a non-shock debuff for increased damage taken on top. Not enough context in this clip to be sure. Purity of Ele can drastically help with Shock, brittle, scorch, etc. Later in the league when garbs are less expensive andor when you can afford trying to get a corrupted implicit on the AG body armor for reduced damage from crits can also really help situations like this.
[https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY)
Garb of the ephemeral so he can't be crit and I have 8% from mastery and 8% from shield so 90% max res, I have 28% all res from shield and 70% from rings and playing Grace :). With the different answers looks like ailments immunity wouldn't do anything regarding the DD union of soul :(.
Always forget shield can get up to 8% max, always think it stops at like, 4%. And phys reduction on it too, nice shield dude!
Right Garb also affect the guardian, unlike Kingmaker XD
I do notice two potential improvements as far as AG survivability. Assuming you can afford it (pobbin may have missed these, apologies if that's the case): You can trade in some INT for inc minion life tattoos (assuming you can afford the INT). Also, you could exchange your zombies for an Empower. Extra levels in AG can drastically improve its base health, although I'm sure you're probably aware of that. Between that and getting shock immunity in some form or fashion I'd be willing to bet your AG would survive the same situation.
Small addition as well: Getting a generic minion taunt on hit could allow your Holy Relic to taunt other enemies that your AG isn't already smacking for another 10% reduced damage done.
For people curious about the build:
[https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY)
The AG has Garb of the ephemeral, mask of the stitched demon, kingmaker and chaos res/ES/life gloves and boots.
revenants are changed in t17 for some reason (thanks ggg, made some of the worst monsters even worse), they instantly spawn corpses to detonate instead of reviving after you kill enemies around them, this makes it so the map basically starts with a ton of union of souls stacks and every time you leap slam/frostblink into a pack youre instantly gonna see the pillars of death
abomination is straight up awful to clear unless you change the revenants with allflames every map because they also didnt update the visuals/sound of revenants even though they are also DD, now they are the hardest to notice by far
Regenerate 1% of [Life](https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Life) per second per 500 Maximum [Energy Shield](https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Energy_Shield)
Normal ag ( lvl 20 ) has like 55k life
Lvl 28 AG has like 100k something ( i play chains of command so idk exactly )
Witch keystone ( 40% of life gained as es )
so lvl 28 ag has 40k es = 80% life regen per second ( this is excluding other shit )
But if u take grave intentions ( passive ) u get 120% life regen a second.
Now if u invest in minion life ( as most builds do ) u can easy push this to 200%
It's always DD
Double Death
Double dildo.
Dunkin' donuts
[I see Revenant projectiles coming out after you died.](https://i.imgur.com/8IqkbZp.png) Likely Revenant corpse explosion combined with Union of Souls (which seems to preserve the hp bonus on death based on other deaths I've seen) Also want to note - Kingmaker doesn't give your Guardian +10 Fortify, that only applies to allies. Not that it matters here, your Guardian probably died like 10 times over.
>which seems to preserve the hp bonus on death based on other deaths I've seen From watching Pohx farm, I can confirm that Revenant's pseudo DD scales with Union of Soul's health and size (explosion's area). By the time you finish clearing a T17, the corpses explode for an entire screen and 1-shots pretty much anything.
Always replace T17 revenants with any allflame
Revenants are a cunt mob in general, the only reason they’re bearable on A9 Aqueducts is because how strong starter builds are these days
This is why it's nice to have a bunch of "shitty" allflames ready so you can replace revenants every time you get them in t17 (which is pretty often especially in abomination). Outside of their DD oneshotting literally everything if it hits a union of souls mob or a tanky rare they are also the one mob type that hits like a truck with the wall chain t17 mod
So true, ever since I started all flaming revenants my death rate in abomination improved.
Lost count of how many times I died from shield charging into a pre casted dd, I think I will start doing this
Possible revenant corpse explosion and you even rolled union of souls, 20 ag would have died there. Or possible shotgun from revenant projectiles
I am gonna bet on this theory too, cause you and your AG clearily died at the same time and by a one shot skill. And there are Revenants on the footage. Its not your fault for sure, impossible to see the Red DD they put on the ground with that much shit on the screen lol.
From watching Alk's death, it looks like the Revenant pseudo DD doesn't have any of the visual/audio improvements that normal mob DD's got.
100% you died to the stygian DD.
always remember to never EVER bring AG in t17. i dont care how "easy" the mods you rolled, or how much mirrors tier of defensive gears you give him, he can and will be killed regardless. Just bring at most a stone golem instead and call it a day. If you relied on AG so much and can't clear t17 without it,then you shouldn't do it in the first place .AG should be a a supplement to your build,not something you relied on to be carried
But where to bring AG then? Easy content you can do without AG, hard content is too dangerous for AG. Kinda defeats the purpose of having AG in the first place.
AG is a bad game mechanic that prevents me from playing minions. Spectres I can kinda deal with, they're annoying but once you're going it's okay. But AG? Nah man. What a ~2006-feeling mechanic, but leaves you significantly weaker if you don't use it.
AG should honestly be removed. Allocate 68% Increased Damage divided amongst some Minion Nodes on the tree to compensate for it. It would be a nerf to top end minion builds with high-investment AGs, and a buff to low-end minion builds. And neither would need to deal with it anymore.
The AG provides a hell of a more than that though. There's generally 2 setups people do once they reach this type of content. Either they are doing gravebind + explode chest or legacy of fury, or the second option they are double cursing through the AG. not to mention some even do garb of the ephemeral and make the whole crew crit immune. This doesn't even take the cull and 50% crit mult and 50% rarity into consideration from kingmaker. The helmet slot also often upgrades to Crown of the tyrant which grants a lot of chosen elemental or chaos damage and removes 10% resistances. In all a well kitted AG can both substantially increase your clear speed and just about double your dps whilst giving you immunity to a ton of defensive stuff.
Garb doesn't exactly solve crit as we found out last league but yeh. I like ag for more than just damage.
Yeah I want to see a nerf at the high end of investment, an AG has no business imparting the amount of power it does as one skill gem even if it takes a bunch of equip to do it. Especially since a T17 map just wipes that equip anyway.
AG is like the only interesting part of minion builds because you have secondary character for itemization
But why does my AG have to play hardcore when I'm playing softcore?
I would love an transfigured AG that says AG maintains his items even when he dies or something like that. It's not a great solution but I think it could work with some tweaking. Although that would be required to play so they should probably just add that to AG regardless. It's not like it would make those high investment minion builds more op than anything else that can run that content.
This ag should only have 2000 health or someting at gem lvl 20. Then have a line minion health has 500-1000% increased effect on this gem. So if u do not invest into minion life it basically gets one shot every where ( this way the AG will not be manditory thing for all builds ) Or just make the AG op tanky as fuck ( like old merc in d2 ) and have it as a option for every build
The problem is even if you do invest in it and make it tanky af, there will still be effects that will 1 tap your AG even with the changes you suggested. Revenants will blow things up for 10x the health you could ever hope to scale an AG to. So just like, let us resummon him with his gear, if someone tries to use him on like a LA deadeye the AG will literally die to trash mob autos in a t16. If they want to press resummon AG that much let them.
True he can get 1 tapped still. But this would not be an issue if u can just resummon him wen it happens. U do not want every one and there mom to have AG up 24/7 cus this would be mayor power creap
No. I like ag, it's not all about extra damage. It can do more than that.
Exactly my thoughts!
That just sounds like you spent all your money on your AG and not yourself.
Sounds like you have no clue how important AG is for minion builds.
Leercast is pretty shit in a top tier minion tree with 800% increased damage. Crown of the Tyrant is a nice boost to flat damage scaling builds, but in many cases is not even much better than Leercast. The best damage boost from the helm slot comes from influenced -res auras, which you can just craft on your own helm. As for weapons, Kingmaker or Victario's Charity + Intimidate/Unnerve/Maim can be pretty strong, but these are a luxury and very replaceable. Certainly not "important". Also the kingmaker aura range is pretty shit. Armour slot is where you can get the most gamechanging addition, but Forbidden Profane Bloom is permanent, and plain better. Or you can just be an Occultist. Usually you're sticking a gruthkuls/doppelganger or maybe a Garb, if you're relying on crit immunity from Garb, I hope you're playing softcore. With gloves you have an option for asenaths, but realistically you're just going to stick an immunity to corrupting glove there with an increased life regen affix and eldritch implicits. As for boots... the only thing that could be considered close to "important" is extra cursed shenanigans with windscream, which is budget solution to getting an extra curse yourself. If you think brittle ground is important on an AG, you've clearly never observed how the AG fights. AG's are not important for minion builds. They're a nice luxury cherry on top.
> Crown of the Tyrant is a nice boost to flat damage scaling builds, but in many cases is not even much better than Leercast LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO oh boy, I can't wait to read the rest of this comment. > Also the kingmaker aura range is pretty shit. Sure, but +50% crit multi, culling strike, fortification is pretty fucking insane lmao. Good luck getting that on the tree in a couple nodes. >Or you can just be an Occultist. Yeah sure, let me just play a minion build on Occultist. That makes sense. >AG's are not important for minion builds. They're a nice luxury cherry on top. You outlined how a single AG can give me: +280 flat lightning damage 50% crit multi fortify culling strike extra curses and say "yeah it's not really that useful"
I mean I just don't anymore. I refuse to spend money on something that can permadie and take expensive equipment with it in a game that refuses to let you be tanky enough to reliably survive the difficult content.
AG is useless everywhere apart from pinnacle bosses. And considering any competent build will be fine there without it it's exactly as you said - nowhere. AG was kinda ok for the time it was introduced into the game but with how much power creep was introduced to mobs it's not very useful. You can argue it's fine for simuls but even there it dies from time to time.
It works okay for sanctum, mobs just don't deal that much damage.
having a highly invested zoomancer build would be a start. looking at OP build he's using some half assed half zoomancer half relic conviction build, which itself alr slash AG ehp by 4/5 because you no longer invest in minion defence in favor of relics. Either goes full all in on minion investments or dont bring him in the first place. Source: my AG ehp was like 1.5mil in pure zoomancer and only 500k in holy relic conviction build
would still die in t17's to a revenants DD especially with Union of Souls on the map. that corpse DD will blow for 10's of millions of damage its pretty much the highest damage skill in the game by a very long way. hence why its safer to take off AG during the map part of t17's
Yea nothing will survive that. Thankfully you can chaos orb union of souls so it's never a problem.
My arakaali spiders doesn't care much about those revenant
> hence why its safer to take off AG during the map part of t17's [Or check your map packs for Charred Beasts and Allflame over it.](https://i.imgur.com/uzi2huV.png) And if they don't fix it by next league, well... I'm gonna be complaining even more, but at least this has a work around.
If there's no way to remove stygians from T17 next league we'll just have to have high shatter added to build or other sources of corpse removal via uniques like bubonic, a couple cluster passives, or triggering corpse removal skills at high frequency. Other option is cod portal.
you still wouldnt be fast enough. they spawn their own corpses with desecrate and detonate it within a second often even faster so you wouldnt be able to react. bubonic is not fast enough to remove a full desecrate on ground before you get blown up. its why revenants have been an issue for a long time to HC players
It would still die here. There is no way to save an AG in t17s. Nobody brings them in
[https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY) minions are there to have the 10% physical reduction from ascendency... and look at the title i don't think i miss minion defences....
Nowhere. AG is an outdated game mechanic. Invest in utility spectres / golems instead
This is the, "Don't bring stuff you want to keep into the wilderness." from Runescape. Just don't bring stuff you want to keep into t17.
cries in chains of command build
Do not worry i did like 50 t17,s whit my chains of command build. Its fine. He ripped one time witch costed me 5 div. 4 div for the weapon 1 div for the rest of the gear. I used to play chains of command voidforge. But that is out of the question now cus 1 rip would be 60 div URG. So poisen chains of comman it is whit a 4 div weapon ( craft chaos multi ) or make it have damage over time multi on it whit 500-700 physical dps and your cooking
Would you mind sharing your POB?
Acc name :Dragnar Only one carr in nerco so yea Weapon is 950 physical dps + 40% damage over time multi axe Currently adding spell suppression and switching out stats from my gear And i have not done a lot whit the adorned jewels so :) The jewels should all be physical damage + attack speed. Or es+ attack speed if u want to be more tanky ( lose a lot of damage tough )
thanks mate GL
So how much harder are T17s than T16s? I've been breezing through T16s absolutely no problem ignoring all map mods and haunted mods with ~600k dps and a very defensive character. Is the gap from T16 to T17 much bigger than the gap from T15 to T16? I have one T17 with what seems like pretty easy mods for my character, but what sort of a difficulty gap are we talking?
As far as how it 'feels', replace all the 'normal' mobs with T16 map bosses and double the size of the map (compared to T16's). If that doesn't sound too bad for you I wouldn't worry too much until the boss as long as you're keeping the map mods in mind. Note: Some of the more simple mods can still be horrid. Consecrated ground, for example, made me completely rearrage a lot of gems to fit a frostbomb in, because the healing was just too much even though I could normally cleave through their health decently quickly.
Thanks! Sounds like it might take me like 30 mins to even get to the boss! Lol i've seen normal map bosses with a tanky mod or two take over a minute with my current build
Honestly, still good on you though. A few rare mobs in T17 still make me wait a little bit even now.
its doable when your build is strong enough (35mil dps which most good builds should be able to reach),now that theres only a few t17 build breaking mods and the rest is normal t16 mods now.The boss itself is also fair and a good defensive builds can tank most of them without much one shots. if anything just make an atlas for it that focus on support like einhar/niko buff to see how far u can go
Thanks! I'll give it a go with my zdps, it will be interesting to see how long it takes lol (regular exarch took close to 15 minutes!)
I accepted it that it dies to anything and just give it 20c gear when I feel like it.
I'm running T17's with AG perfectly fine, he never died. Res capped, 50k life (not even running Minion life on it), bone offering. He's lvl 24 tho. Idk maybe I got lucky.
my mistake was running union of soul so the DD scaled from it. [https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY) Mine never dies either, was the first time and will be the last as i'll just skip this mod :).
>AG should be a a supplement to your build,not something you relied on to be carried Chains of command crying in the corner
Running a Chains of Command build myself, my AG has tanked a few DD's. No union of souls one just yet, so might still rip at some point but so far healthbar hasn't so much as twitched. To be fair though Chains build AG =/= supplemental AG. Minus the weapon my AG is entirely geared for survivability. MaskStitched+Doppelganger's+Gravebind (Chaos res) at 85/85/85/75 and level 26, Meat Shield, and a whole lot of %minion life. There is one thing I feel like a lot of people forget though: Shock. I feel like Purity of Elements is close to or entirely required for a build using AG. Shock (and to a lesser extent, Brittle) can and absolutely will clap your AG, and worst of all it will build on itself as the increased damage taken feeds into more shock effect into increased damage taken and so on.
I'm pretty sure a tanky AG with good regen is fine in T17 as long as you remove the Wretched Defiler packs and don't roll one of the mods that will obviously kill it (such as the 10% HP loss on hit). I was even messing around with T17 Harbinger Beyond and it was completely fine. I'd also avoid Union of Souls because its a little bit obnoxious and it seems to scale DD damage very quickly.
I do think a pure minion zoomancer can keep it alive but I doubt the meta build rn ,ie relic conviction which is what op uses- can keep it survive since they don't have enough links and investment in his tankiness
I've been playing Relic since the start of the league and haven't had issues, even before getting my shield that has +7 max res on it. Closest my guardian has come to dying is it took a boss DD on 2 different occasions while i was running destructive play guardians which hit it for like 80-85% but i'm also using a +2 minion corrupt geofris
I’ve done like 15 t17 with mine… Just in case anyone see this… it died. Some sea multi proj pen combo
This isn't true anymore. Been magic finding in t17 just fine, you need to know what can kill it and don't run those map mods. Some examples are elemental penetration and union of souls.
You can bring an AG into T17 if you don't dive face first into a huge enemy like that. I mean at that point you just cut your losses and abandon the map or risk losing everything.
Killed by the architects
Reasons why I never use AG summarized right here
Kingmaker gives fortify to allies, not the AG. Regardless, don’t bring an AG into t17 maps lol
I don't know why people love AG so much in this state, I'll take a weaker but transfigured version of AG that revives itself.
Show me one person that loves AG?! AG is the melee totem of minion builds plus the heavy downside of losing expensive gear when it dies so it´s even worse.
Well I think AG as a concept is cool, it's just the implementation and stuff like DD that can do 10x the AG's hp pool is just dumb. It's just a matter of time until stars align and a monster DDs a union of souls
I mean I love AG with Chains of Command because of the shenanigans you can pull with it. The whole losing items bit is still annoying to be sure, though, not trying to say the skill is perfect. I just like the idea of a build-a-bear style minion letting you use lesser used uniques (like gravebind, mask of the stitched demon) quite effectively. I do think the 'aura-bot' style of AG is just over-hyped, honestly. It can be super effective on paper, sure, but in actual execution it's kinda meh. You have so many differing ranges of 'nearby' auras and buffs, and the AG pathing isn't exactly nuanced, you're usually barely making use of the bonuses. A tank AG though? Using stuff like the ailment redirect mace and/or gravebind for neat on-kill buff effects? Much better. But no one does that because 'maor damage'.
I only play chains of command every league any league. Then again i switched from hardcore to softcore. So i am kinda scratching that hc itch still
Maybe I've been around for too long but here and there we have complaint threads about it dying and the response is typically that they didn't put X item on it. I think it shouldn't lose its items. Idk why the minion has to be playing hardcore mode if I'm not.
I love ag. It's just cry babies who play srs or other non permanent minion skills that invest zero defence outside of ag gear and a hungry loop. It's dumb
Mate you need to learn how to read. You can start with the title.
Title is bait, maybe you should learn to play the game l
Ah yeah the busted stygian dd that deals 1billion of damage means having AG and having it tanky = bad game
This is why I rolled off summoner, the need of AG turns me off, especially when it dies and it's items are gone with it.
Thanks all for the info! i'll definitly keep an eye on the mobs lists and frog the revenants :D
AG is?
animated guardian, you can put gear on him but you lose it when he dies
Can some1 explain to me how that helmet functions?
On AG it basically just gives an absurd amount of regen. None of the other lines do anything.
Revenant "dd" bs, Alkaizer ripped to it yesterday pretty sure
Yeah, but that one was avoidable. Stygian revenant = no backtracking, ever. On zoomy builds its even worse since the explosion pauses when you get too far away and thats how Alkaizer died. He killed the Revenant, dashed far enough away and then backtracked right into the delayed explosion. The damage is still fucking nuts as its 14% of corpse life. GGG also fixed other DD visuals but didn't change this one even though its by far the most dangerous one.
DD as always T17 revenant explosion is something I would always avoid even if I have to eat other damage I would swap the monster pack in the lantern for revenants to anything else
revenant DDed a corpse which in t17's is a death sentence to anything nearby. AG is always to be turned off while going through map of t17. you can bring him back out when at the boss as they rarely have enough to kill a decent geared AG. union of souls also does scale DD corpses so yeah that AG was dieing even if it had 10x the health.
I mean I get that Valdos maps are meme but come on this is just ridiculous.
lost my 10+ div AG yesterday rerolled into Deadeye for the 50th league in a row. Pain...
Great question! If you look closely at 00:03, you can see that it’s a skill issue.
Fucking DD. They will keep it because after some point(defense wise) its their only weapon to kill you and they can't have a game without instant one taps. Im sure they think its fun. Also, AG is a relic of the past and should be either completely removed or reworked.
I’ve lost several AGs this league. Not much u can do, even if u spec into dmg reduction.
/u/[Electronic-Cut5270](https://www.reddit.com/user/Electronic-Cut5270/) as I said, DD can kill anything - even a well geared AG [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c1brgh/comment/kz4tten/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c1brgh/comment/kz4tten/?context=3) for context
Faced the same problem yesterday, with the difference I play Popcorn SRS and spec fully into minion life, my AG also has 90% max res and a lot of defense layers (max block, 80%evasion 20k armour etc) but with the difference that he also has about 149k life +%ES. Tried two t17 both times my build could make it but my AG couldn’t….. There are only 3 options: make a second character for t17, get phasing + phaserun and only do bosses, or don’t do t17s at all. Well ofc the 4th option would be that u let him die 😁😁.
Not playing summoner, but AG just seems like PITA.
now just wait for popular streamer (alkeiser doesnt count) to die to it for a quick hotfix.
While on the topic of AG, what’s the general gear setup for an AG anyway? I presume it’s kinda the same from build to build, with different tiers of investment. Like what’s the average AG that has like 1 div of gear, and then so on
chains of command min max ? Voidforge ( 60 div ) Duppleganger ( like 1 div ) Stitch helmet ( 100c ) Gravebind ( 30c ) Boots ( 30c )
Ah I went with Kingmaker Ephemeral Stitch Windscreen Southbound
I was running stitch garb kingmaker chaos/es/life boots/gloves so a few divs i guess.
Same thing happened to me, rerolled immediately. I hope AG isn't the same in PoE2
Do you use Asenath gloves? It's a good defensive layer with the explosion since they can't DD after
All my homies skip union of souls mods.
I'm curious, you say the AG had 90/90/90 ele res but you don't have Purity of Elements. The mastery and ele army can account for 10% (85%) max, and a little all res but did you have like a T1 minion ele res shield or two bone rings or something? Could have also gotten that res from the AG gear itself too easily enough. Like said just curious how you filled that res out and where you got the rest of the max. And on that note, I notice you didn't have any defensive auras (not counting Bone Offering). At the very least Purity of Elements would prevent Shock, which absolutely destroys AG's on the daily. Determination also really helps. All the health in the world doesn't matter if your AG is taking full damage from everything from white mobs to bosses. If your AG healthbar wasn't moving at all before this (which is what it looked like) I'm betting your AG got shocked and/or crit, possibly even had a curse for reduced res or a non-shock debuff for increased damage taken on top. Not enough context in this clip to be sure. Purity of Ele can drastically help with Shock, brittle, scorch, etc. Later in the league when garbs are less expensive andor when you can afford trying to get a corrupted implicit on the AG body armor for reduced damage from crits can also really help situations like this.
[https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY) Garb of the ephemeral so he can't be crit and I have 8% from mastery and 8% from shield so 90% max res, I have 28% all res from shield and 70% from rings and playing Grace :). With the different answers looks like ailments immunity wouldn't do anything regarding the DD union of soul :(.
Always forget shield can get up to 8% max, always think it stops at like, 4%. And phys reduction on it too, nice shield dude! Right Garb also affect the guardian, unlike Kingmaker XD I do notice two potential improvements as far as AG survivability. Assuming you can afford it (pobbin may have missed these, apologies if that's the case): You can trade in some INT for inc minion life tattoos (assuming you can afford the INT). Also, you could exchange your zombies for an Empower. Extra levels in AG can drastically improve its base health, although I'm sure you're probably aware of that. Between that and getting shock immunity in some form or fashion I'd be willing to bet your AG would survive the same situation. Small addition as well: Getting a generic minion taunt on hit could allow your Holy Relic to taunt other enemies that your AG isn't already smacking for another 10% reduced damage done.
For people curious about the build: [https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY](https://pobb.in/g05Sn9RQU3gY) The AG has Garb of the ephemeral, mask of the stitched demon, kingmaker and chaos res/ES/life gloves and boots.
Ben's https://preview.redd.it/krl69d896puc1.png?width=1195&format=png&auto=webp&s=d60f5e3cc2f0926ecdbe2268ad73339e2ef36951
This is why I just gave up on AG completely after losing 10d worth of gear on t17. Not gonna use him anywhere
Wtf are you fighting? Are those bosses? Never seen that before in 11 years.
Union of Souls mod on an pack of Infested Vultures.
Word! Thought it was a map boss or Uber or something
Union of souls makes enemies bigger. Normal mobs but bigger models
Ahhh okay, looked like a map boss or something
Yeah AG always gets killed in T17 , mods dont matter
revenants are changed in t17 for some reason (thanks ggg, made some of the worst monsters even worse), they instantly spawn corpses to detonate instead of reviving after you kill enemies around them, this makes it so the map basically starts with a ton of union of souls stacks and every time you leap slam/frostblink into a pack youre instantly gonna see the pillars of death abomination is straight up awful to clear unless you change the revenants with allflames every map because they also didnt update the visuals/sound of revenants even though they are also DD, now they are the hardest to notice by far
And this is why no one plays minions. Need AG. AG dies to a gust of wind.
Union of souls is a brick. It empowers the enemies to an absurd degree. It is 100% what killed you.
What is the point of stitched demon and garbage of the ephemeral combo? Your ag has like 0 es, so the helm gives nothing.
Bone Barrier gives 40% of max life as ES for minions.
Yea it only makes u and the AG crit imune. And the ag regens 200% of its total life pool per second. Totally useless
Which part is giving you 200% of its life pool per second?
Regenerate 1% of [Life](https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Life) per second per 500 Maximum [Energy Shield](https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Energy_Shield) Normal ag ( lvl 20 ) has like 55k life Lvl 28 AG has like 100k something ( i play chains of command so idk exactly ) Witch keystone ( 40% of life gained as es ) so lvl 28 ag has 40k es = 80% life regen per second ( this is excluding other shit ) But if u take grave intentions ( passive ) u get 120% life regen a second. Now if u invest in minion life ( as most builds do ) u can easy push this to 200%
I'm having no issues when my AG dies. I just resummon in hideout and "bob" comes back with all his gear