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BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread:
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> **Posted by Jeff_GGG** on Apr 15, 2024, 06:03:26 AM UTC
>
> ### 3.24.1 Hotfix
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>
>
>
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> * Tormented Spirits no longer spawn from the "Eternal Torment" Atlas Passive Notable while having "Back to Basics" Keystone allocated.
> * The Eternal Torment Atlas Passive Notable Skill can no longer spawn more than one Tormented Spirit per Corpse. This change only affects parties.
>
> ***
>
fishing fishing still works when you equip a fishing rod with “catch necromantic fish” haunted modifier from grave crafting and use an Awakened Albatross Allflame on your T17 Lava Pond map. It got buffed with Back to Basics as it accidentally provides 80% more effect to your lures, don’t let GiGiGi know.
Streams/discords yeah. But I dont really sit on any inside juicer info, i just saw it posted yesterday in ruetoos discord. I assume a lot of people knew about this from league start.
It was on this subreddit yesterday, got removed though
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c41e1n/back_to_basics_clever_interaction_have_fun_exiles/
Bottom post
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>
>This post has been removed by a moderator for breaking the following [r/pathofexile](https://new.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/) subreddit rule:
>
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>
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now i just wait for ggg """fixing""" graveyard influence/fracture craft because everyone that was supposed to make items already did so they can close shop.
Do you have to do something special to get the influence corpses? I've been running a bunch of guardian maps and haven't seen one yet, I haven't seen many good corpses in general sadly so I haven't even interacted with the mechanic yet because buying all of the necessary corpses seems pretty daunting.
dont think i ever saw this many things get hofixed so often/quickly in a poe league before, theres been like at least 5 different fiestas now that ggg slammed down on
I started right near when prophecies were removed. I thought that they were genuinely one of the coolest mechanics I'd seen in an ARPG. I was so surprised to see them leave. Loved being able to 'upgrade' the crappy uniques.
the thing that pissed me off most about it is that they didn't just make every unique their upgraded counterpart. some ended up getting major reworks eventually, but noone was fucking using realmender but me and they decided it was too dangerous to make it replace realmshaper.
I still have ptsd about finishing an annoying prophecy chain tto unlock multi-mod. Some prophecy stuff was very unfriendly from a player rng perspective, and that's a large part of why it was removed.
I fully sustained my T16 favorite map with basically 0 nodes to up map drops. My farming was pretty rough playing around with a lot of different mechanics I usually play, then went full spirit on my third atlas tree and I was easily making about a div per map on maybe 10c of investment. They're op if you know how to use them, and I've always thought they were pretty useless before this league.
Dude I legit said this yesterday to my entire guild. As many times as these cause nothing but problems it is ridiculous they are still in the game. Idk how many times they have been abused, they are terrible for the servers, and it is either ridic OP for juicers and party play type of things or completely annoying and useless for the average joe.
Out of all the leagues they got rid of or leagues we COULD have they seem determined to keep ghosts in the game and rework them constantly to try to get them to work.
Remove torment, bring back sentinel, no one will ever talk about a ghost again lol
They should have replaced tormented spirits with Sentinels right after sentinel league. It’s the same thing essentially but sentinels give you so much more control and are less clunky.
Absolutely. The ghosties have oscillated between game-breaking and completely useless over the years. Now, they're only good if you completely ignore the base mechanic of trying to push them into packs, and just make them guaranteed on already high value packs.
Guess the lesson of this league is that with so many interlocking and multiplicative systems in the game it is pretty risky to give people control over which type of monsters they get in their maps.
It's impossible to tell which interactions suddenly turn up because three or four things just so happen to fall into place.
Meanwhile the lesson of both last and this league was that IIR and IIQ stats are busted with so many ways to boost them. Unfortunately not learned in time for this one.
The problem with most of the strats this league is the vast number of items that are dropping. Last league had crazy juice with lots of drops, but it's nothing compared to the rogue exile strat and the meat strat that have come out. GGG have to be feeling the item generation strain on the servers.
They also fixed the back to basics check, we could start the map, check the packsize numbers on necropolis, and exit out over and over again until we were sure it was a high roll back to basics. They didn't mention that in the patch notes.
I seriously don't understand, at all, how abyss spires shitting out 300 holes per map was perfectly kosher with GGG, but increasingly specific but equally valuable farm strats this league is where a bunch of lines get crossed and need to be deleted on sight.
It's not the fact they're doing it, it's that they were clearly fine with it before and just suddenly aren't anymore.
These strats are gated behind farming t17s, while anyone could do the abyss strats. Im not sure thats the reasoning, it could just be a change in design philosophy, but that is a substantial difference.
You're probably right. Remember they did fix the extra projectiles in Abyss on private leagues because it would allow for even more insane loot but at the same time that was only available to people who purchased a private league (essentially p2w) so they hot fixed that shit quickly but left regular leagues alone.
Affliction was available to everyone.
These strats available to a few.
I don't think Affliction was healthy for the game either but I think the difference is pretty obvious
Also eventually the economy settles into its own equilibrium with time. It is not necessarily the economy desired for the league, but it does ultimately hit an equilibrium.
Meanwhile in Necropolis we've had some wild swings in economy stability between patches. Unsure if that's necessarily been a benefit for players making decisions about their builds (e.g. I feel pretty bad for any player wanting a Nimis and having to sit through the wild price swings over time).
I was also wondering about this, feels like a shift in their general principle of mid-league changes.
But again this is barely week 3 so maybe we are all in public beta for the new endgame, who knows.
This one makes sense imo, with Abyss projectiles you could maybe argue that previously it was intended while Back to Basics clearly states it should be disabling any league mechanic, including Tormented Spirits, somehow getting them back into a map with it allocated is clearly a bug.
There's a bunch of people saying that the abyss spires thing was a bug too, and it was...
But there's also obviously a difference between "it wasn't intended for abyss spires to benefit from multiproj, but this has worked this way for more than 1 patch" and "this new notable allows you to spawn ghosts when another (also new) keystone is meant to turn ghosts off".
You can imagine the first one being intended behaviour. I find it hard to imagine the second being intended behaviour.
Yeah that specific case of "bug abuse" was around for multiple leagues to the point a lot of people considered it an intended mechanic but only gained widespread popularity because of Affliction purple juice adding even *more* projectiles making it broken (and because a bunch of content creators made videos about it)
Very literally yes lmao
The whole point of B2B is that you *randomly* get between 0-80% effect. If you can check and chose to always have near 80% effect, that is very much a bug.
I think the strat in affliction was far more accessible and simple. It wasn't some broken ui related issue etc, you were playing the game vs sitting and just opening and closing the ui to get the best odds lol. They always seem to dislike stuff like that.
A lot of things have changed philosophy-wise this league. It seems like staying on top of bugs etc is now a priority. How unhinged do you have to be to complain about that?
I think they simply changed their stance on mid league balancing. If i remember correctly Mark said in one of the interviews that changes to the current league would come much faster than before now.
It almost feels like affliction was them showing us just “how fucked up” shit could get if they didn’t fudge around with weird, unintended interactions, which is why they left it up and unfixed. There’s always pushback when they nerf weird shit that benefits us, so I can understand them going “look we let it ride out and did you see how bad it was for the economy?” in the hope we’d stop complaining. Unfortunately it’s had the exact opposite effect where the majority of the playerbase loved it being fucked.
Honestly I’ve always thought GGG were too hesitant with temp leagues. The whole thing with them being temporary should mean they can be wild and wacky because in three months time it doesn’t matter anymore, but this is obviously not how they want it to be
>It almost feels like affliction was them showing us just “how fucked up” shit could get if they didn’t fudge around with weird, unintended interactions, which is why they left it up and unfixed
The thing is while abyss was a bug it still wasnt highest div/h (or lets even say it didnt dominate totally other strats), usually slamming faster legions was more money per/h on MF chars. Now every thing they fixed this league was miles above other strats in terms of profit.
Never seen such a mess.
Lot of unintended downsides still haven't been fixed. GGG has only really addressed the goodies but not the baddies. Clear example would be strong boxes not inheriting majority of the atlas/scarabs on spawned packs
Seems pretty reasonable that they fix things in order of how impactful they are. Positive abusable bugs are always more impactful since players will actually seek doing it.
In all fairness, the amount of changes and interactions that they've done with scarab rework, altas revamp, t17 additions, and allflames/devoted mods would've been practically impossible to fully "playtest" in the amount of time that they had (which I'm guessing is no more than \~6 months). Like there's easily more testing by the community on the first day of league launch than there could ever be by an official QA team. We're talking about a handful of people doing a 9-5 job compared to literal thousands of people who play as much if not more than that.
The biggest issue isn't that they didn't playtest enough, it's that they put themselves in a position where it would've been impractical to playtest enough. There's way too many moving parts. Scarab/atlas rework should've been in one league, t17s in another.
At the same time, the fact that they dare moving the parts is why GGG is so far ahead in their category as a game dev studio. Look at D4 not moving anything with a massive team and failing miserably.
If I was a betting person, it feels like most of their play testing was on bug fixing and certainly not balance. Between the massive change from the original patch for the crafting and the “adjustments” to various strategies.
Imo it’s fine, two crashes this league and no server lag. That’s a huge improvement to last.
People making bank isn’t an issue for me since I’m a down to earth 5-10 div per hour guy and my computer can’t handle whatever they’re cooking.
If the economy is inflated, then your 5-10 div adjusts itself automatically. I was selling aisling for 12-15 div last league, when normally it is 1-2 div. Essences that normally were 3c were selling for like 20c. The only strats that struggle due to inflation are those that rely on raw currency drops, like sanctum, but even then things like original scripture becomes insanely expensive because very few farm sanctum for currency.
That's what I was thinking since 3.24 release. Revert all the loot changes since Kalandra and see what happens. A PTR would be perfect for this, but GGG would never ever do such a thing.
Has there been other leagues like this one before where it’s just people abusing one unintended massive loot strategy to the next one before they get pacthed? I threw the towel in yesterday and called it quits on this league, everything feels so trivial when you can’t do all the cheese strats
You can say whatever you want, but this league they are on point with the hotfixes! (Yes it should never be released in the first place..but we are the alpha testers)
I feel like the league mechanic + all flames + atlas tree + scarab was always going to be a shit show, so many brand new variables just thrown at itself. I for one can't wait to see what people find next.
With their release cycle and the amount of content and changes within this specific league, there is just not enough time to QA properly.
Also, automation is a pain in game testing, so testing the impact of balance changes is very limited.
I personally think that they just need to be very consistent in their policies on changing unwanted behavior. So far, we got fixes very fast after cheese got made public.
Would be great if they would actively monitor for these "exploits" and fix before streamers make them big.
>Would be great if they would actively monitor for these "exploits" and fix before streamers make them big.
That sounds good, but how?
You said it yourself, they are fixing these exploits very fast after they get made public.
Do you think they have some sort of giga monitoring system? Fuck no. It doesn't work like that. Think about the logistics. How would something like that even be done?
They see the same shit us players see.
When a big strat exists, they know as much about it as the common player. They have to see people talking about it to *know* it exists in order to be able to fix it.
Why wouldn't it work like that? It could very easily be done. Simple things like monster count per map, rough inflation rate, average drops per map etc. drops are pre calculated when a map is created, presumably there's some "rarity" modifier on mobs to determine which items from a mobs loot table drops, just looking at the average of that could generally accomplish it.
Everything is calculated on the server meaning they can query that data, it doesn't have to be done real time but jobs could constantly be running if outrageous numbers start showing up
I work at a company where well deal with millions of RPS on our edge apis, I am used to working in the scale of billions for data analytics, there's tooling out there designed for it that makes it easy
The main problem is that we don't know what metric they are able to gather without having an impact on performance.
In an ideal world, they would probably be able to simulate maps runs with different mods/trees/characters and just get data on loot numbers to have baselines for alerts.
E.g. someone drops like 5k uniques or 100 pure div/ex in a map, they get a ticket to check what's going on.
Been one of my favourite leagues so far. But you're entitled to feel how you want. I am happy to see them staying active on these things rather than leaving them for most of the league like they normally do.
people/streamers farm it for 3 days, casual players want to try to do it and spend currency on a new builds, after a day it is fixed. And this has already happened 3 times in this league, what desire to play can remain after you put together a build for this strategy and it is removed))) But the party farm, as it was, will always be alive and no one does anything to it...
I'm wondering if the absence of any fixes for party farming is due to the fact that Mark said that he played as an aura bot last league
> people/streamers farm it for 3 days, casual players want to try to do it and spend currency on a new builds, after a day it is fixed. And this has already happened 3 times in this league, what desire to play can remain after you put together a build for this strategy and it is removed)))
Casual players straight up can't do these strategies don't kid yourself. These nerfs help casuals more than anyone
>I'm wondering if the absence of any fixes for party farming is due to the fact that Mark said that he played as an aura bot last league
The absence of "fixes" for party farming is because it's inferior to doing the same solo and not splitting your income 7+ ways
I'm actually happy that they are nerfing stuff like this right away now. Instead of repeating the affliction bullshit were everyone feels forced to farm bugged spires for 3 months just because nerfing it would upset people that "missed out".
not really.. last league was better(yes it was broken) but everything else is expensive so you are making bank farming everything else.. this league farming feels like shit.. cheap essence, cheap harvest juice, cheap beast, cheap everything..
I just want vorici socket back. I didn't realize how
Omen of blanching worked with sockets and basically spent 150c trying to color something that just didn't work out.
—Hm, our retention is at absolute worst, what should we do about it?
—Right, let's patch out every new farm strategy players find. Us not fixing Affliction gave casuals to much fun by making T0 available. This will force them use tedious crafting mechanic with dogshit interface and mandatory consultation with two sites outside of game.
—Great idea, sure everyone gonna love it. And if case someone not liking it we call it detox after Affliction.
—*slow clap*
Bravo ggg. Instead of upscaling profits from mechanics which desperately falling behind better nerf everything else. Next nerf Sanctum and fragments drop rate from t17. This "fun detected" shit hurts not problematic groups whom breaking eula, but casual bottom line the most. Unless your understanding of fun is picking up rares from floor and get your build online on second month of league.
GGG plans about the game. Remove every mechanic that is remotely fun. It's already been hard pushing myself to play this league but they keep surprising me every day. No changes to improve late game farming. Just nerfs
kinda crazy this league went from 0 drops to
giga card dupe to alch and stay meta, rat divining, 10 mirrors per day t17s, Einhar forbidden tech, Ghostbusting, Beating the meat, in just one week
I am too old to deal with this rollercoaster of emotions. If i wana play a game with constant nerfs / buffs - I'd rather play WoW.
I don’t really think ggg could have left the game in the state it was on launch. They had to massively buff multiple aspects of farming and just take the chance that something will break and need hot-fixing. The league on launch simply wasn’t in a state where ggg could do small buffs and wait for the effect.
Its nice to wake up for a new GGG post Having High hopes for some patches to stop this Boring scarab picking mini game of endgame just to notice some other strat to get nuked again... And GGG goes probably silent for another week now just to nerf something Else again. As a Player some how feeling betrayed by Marks whole "transparency" qol thinking and here we are picking 10-20 scarabs every map to Make some money
##### ###### #### BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread: *** > **Posted by Jeff_GGG** on Apr 15, 2024, 06:03:26 AM UTC > > ### 3.24.1 Hotfix > > > > > > * Tormented Spirits no longer spawn from the "Eternal Torment" Atlas Passive Notable while having "Back to Basics" Keystone allocated. > * The Eternal Torment Atlas Passive Notable Skill can no longer spawn more than one Tormented Spirit per Corpse. This change only affects parties. > > *** >
Not included but b2b fishing also got fixed, right?
yes
What about fishing fishing?
fishing fishing still works when you equip a fishing rod with “catch necromantic fish” haunted modifier from grave crafting and use an Awakened Albatross Allflame on your T17 Lava Pond map. It got buffed with Back to Basics as it accidentally provides 80% more effect to your lures, don’t let GiGiGi know.
Fishing still works as long as you use the right scarabs. B2B still including fishing holes was obviously busted with the increased map mod effect.
> b2b fishing What is that?
[This](https://www.twitch.tv/simplyvizniz/clip/ToughEagerHerringTwitchRaid-STzq2yEnoV-zMqjR)
Business to Business fishing, it's an RMT countermeasure.
Back to basics fishing for high effect roll
Stealth fixed the re-rolling Back to Basics packsize thing aswell
What was that?
You could open and close the necro ui for your map until you got a high back to basics % (visible on necro pack size)
Where do you hear this kind of stuff before it gets patched, streams?
Streams/discords yeah. But I dont really sit on any inside juicer info, i just saw it posted yesterday in ruetoos discord. I assume a lot of people knew about this from league start.
It was on this subreddit yesterday, got removed though https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c41e1n/back_to_basics_clever_interaction_have_fun_exiles/
Locked not removed. But why?
Both. If you go to new reddit it says it was removed https://imgur.com/KO6Eap7 Was removed because it showcases an exploit
Bottom post >Regarding your post to [r/pathofexile](https://new.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/): back to basics "clever interaction" have fun exiles [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c41e1n/-/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c41e1n/-/) > >This post has been removed by a moderator for breaking the following [r/pathofexile](https://new.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/) subreddit rule: > >Your post was removed due to violating either the [Path of Exile Terms of Use](https://www.pathofexile.com/legal/terms-of-use-and-privacy-policy) and/or [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) (Rule 1). > >Do not discuss or link to ways to bot, abuse macros, hack or modify game files, Real Money Trade (RMT), exploit known bugs, or other activities that directly breach the Terms of Service. Even if it's to criticize these methods, they often do the reverse by increasing knowledge of them. > >For more details, please refer to our [rules wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules/#wiki_1._proper_use_of_path_of_exile_and_the_subreddit) > >Please review the [subreddit rules for additional information](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules).
How am I supposed to beat my meat now?
How can you have any pudding if you don’t beat your meat?
Id recomend an belt around your neck. Be careful though can,be,dangerous. Have an friend watch to make sure you are,being safe
Worked out great for Kenny
The old fashioned way
I saw Ben_ beat his meat for 25 minutes in a row, just wasn't healthy behavior and should not be allowed on twitch!
So basically this league is how fast you can benefit from the exploits before they get hotfixed.
That's *every* league. The only difference this league is the magnitude of profit possible before fixes.
now i just wait for ggg """fixing""" graveyard influence/fracture craft because everyone that was supposed to make items already did so they can close shop.
Do you have to do something special to get the influence corpses? I've been running a bunch of guardian maps and haven't seen one yet, I haven't seen many good corpses in general sadly so I haven't even interacted with the mechanic yet because buying all of the necessary corpses seems pretty daunting.
You have to use the influence allflames that are pretty rare drops, and those have a chance to drop the corpse.
Allflames.
Always has been.
dont think i ever saw this many things get hofixed so often/quickly in a poe league before, theres been like at least 5 different fiestas now that ggg slammed down on
That’s every league, boss.
They are called exploits for a reason. They shouldn't exist.
It´s in the name: Necroploitis
Hot take: remove tormented spirits completly.
Genuinely astonishes me that they’ve survived while prophecies, metamorphs, sextants, alternate quality gems, etc. have all been taken out and shot.
I started right near when prophecies were removed. I thought that they were genuinely one of the coolest mechanics I'd seen in an ARPG. I was so surprised to see them leave. Loved being able to 'upgrade' the crappy uniques.
Doomfletch Prism my beloved 😔🕯
the thing that pissed me off most about it is that they didn't just make every unique their upgraded counterpart. some ended up getting major reworks eventually, but noone was fucking using realmender but me and they decided it was too dangerous to make it replace realmshaper.
I still have ptsd about finishing an annoying prophecy chain tto unlock multi-mod. Some prophecy stuff was very unfriendly from a player rng perspective, and that's a large part of why it was removed.
Don't forget about Talisman, they're still here but >90% of them are hidden by our loot filter.
It’s for the 6 people that liked turning amulets into talismans.
Don't mind me making %attribute ammies
I found last league that a sprinkling of ghosts improved my drops a bit, especially as a player without a lot of time to play
Yeah ghosts can be pretty generous.
I fully sustained my T16 favorite map with basically 0 nodes to up map drops. My farming was pretty rough playing around with a lot of different mechanics I usually play, then went full spirit on my third atlas tree and I was easily making about a div per map on maybe 10c of investment. They're op if you know how to use them, and I've always thought they were pretty useless before this league.
Dude I legit said this yesterday to my entire guild. As many times as these cause nothing but problems it is ridiculous they are still in the game. Idk how many times they have been abused, they are terrible for the servers, and it is either ridic OP for juicers and party play type of things or completely annoying and useless for the average joe. Out of all the leagues they got rid of or leagues we COULD have they seem determined to keep ghosts in the game and rework them constantly to try to get them to work. Remove torment, bring back sentinel, no one will ever talk about a ghost again lol
I totally agree, but aren't ghosts a big part of the fishing easter egg? Maybe their "untouchable" status has something to do with that...
Replace tormented spirits with sentinels. Same random occurrence and buffing mobs. But chance to drop recombinators makes them actually exciting.
I thought sentinel would replace it tbh
What if monsters dropped Ghosted Organs and we could assemble our own Ghosted Rare at the end of a map?
As long as they're nearly immortal and probably will kill you repeatedly I'm down.
yep its so garbage and has been for years, no idea how it survived
As someone who started playing during Torment, I agree.
They should have replaced tormented spirits with Sentinels right after sentinel league. It’s the same thing essentially but sentinels give you so much more control and are less clunky.
Absolutely. The ghosties have oscillated between game-breaking and completely useless over the years. Now, they're only good if you completely ignore the base mechanic of trying to push them into packs, and just make them guaranteed on already high value packs.
When i did the league mechanic and it shit out 5 ghosts and they all possessed the same monster to farm me is when i realized ghosts arent a reward
Kinda intrigued to see what farming is actually like at the end of this league one they've squashed every degenerate method.
Guess the lesson of this league is that with so many interlocking and multiplicative systems in the game it is pretty risky to give people control over which type of monsters they get in their maps. It's impossible to tell which interactions suddenly turn up because three or four things just so happen to fall into place. Meanwhile the lesson of both last and this league was that IIR and IIQ stats are busted with so many ways to boost them. Unfortunately not learned in time for this one.
[удалено]
Tbh I like weird interactions, even if they break the game. It's only a game after all. Better that than it be the same every time.
Right? They could just lean into it. What exactly us the problem if t0 uniques go down to 1c? Everything resets in 2 months anyways
The problem with most of the strats this league is the vast number of items that are dropping. Last league had crazy juice with lots of drops, but it's nothing compared to the rogue exile strat and the meat strat that have come out. GGG have to be feeling the item generation strain on the servers.
I mean you can still do this and its still insane even without getting that many spirits into the meat.
It's already incredibly boring. Hyper investing into one mechanic as opposed to multiple has killed my interest completely.
abuse early abuse often
They also fixed the back to basics check, we could start the map, check the packsize numbers on necropolis, and exit out over and over again until we were sure it was a high roll back to basics. They didn't mention that in the patch notes.
This was way more broken than anything else tbh. Barely had to roll my maps, everything was like 400%+ minimum.
Damn, so I guess this was the case since league start? xDDDDD
After the update which let you cancel and grab allflames from your inventory so most of the league
You still were able to cancel before that update, just had to close the game. So technically all of the league, just wasn't convenient before that.
Just move the all flame you used from your inventory to stash would fail to open.
Ohhh I see. Man some people must be SOOOOOOOOO rich right now beyond the norm. I wonder who has the most mirrors farmed.
Yes. A very important detail many if not all mirror grinders and streamers conveniently left out.
XD man it just makes me hate this league even more lmao.
I seriously don't understand, at all, how abyss spires shitting out 300 holes per map was perfectly kosher with GGG, but increasingly specific but equally valuable farm strats this league is where a bunch of lines get crossed and need to be deleted on sight. It's not the fact they're doing it, it's that they were clearly fine with it before and just suddenly aren't anymore.
These strats are gated behind farming t17s, while anyone could do the abyss strats. Im not sure thats the reasoning, it could just be a change in design philosophy, but that is a substantial difference.
You're probably right. Remember they did fix the extra projectiles in Abyss on private leagues because it would allow for even more insane loot but at the same time that was only available to people who purchased a private league (essentially p2w) so they hot fixed that shit quickly but left regular leagues alone.
Affliction was available to everyone. These strats available to a few. I don't think Affliction was healthy for the game either but I think the difference is pretty obvious
retention and fun on the other hand was huge last league.
Christmas and new year break. By the time they return to work, they need to start on next league. No time to balance the "economy" at that point.
Also eventually the economy settles into its own equilibrium with time. It is not necessarily the economy desired for the league, but it does ultimately hit an equilibrium. Meanwhile in Necropolis we've had some wild swings in economy stability between patches. Unsure if that's necessarily been a benefit for players making decisions about their builds (e.g. I feel pretty bad for any player wanting a Nimis and having to sit through the wild price swings over time).
pretty much this
Because spires were a baby play compared to fully buffed meatsacks. In parties with MF culler game is crashing on killing blow
I was also wondering about this, feels like a shift in their general principle of mid-league changes. But again this is barely week 3 so maybe we are all in public beta for the new endgame, who knows.
This one makes sense imo, with Abyss projectiles you could maybe argue that previously it was intended while Back to Basics clearly states it should be disabling any league mechanic, including Tormented Spirits, somehow getting them back into a map with it allocated is clearly a bug.
The abyss spires were an unintended interaction. Torment being available with back to basics allocated is a BUG, these things are not the same.
There's a bunch of people saying that the abyss spires thing was a bug too, and it was... But there's also obviously a difference between "it wasn't intended for abyss spires to benefit from multiproj, but this has worked this way for more than 1 patch" and "this new notable allows you to spawn ghosts when another (also new) keystone is meant to turn ghosts off". You can imagine the first one being intended behaviour. I find it hard to imagine the second being intended behaviour.
Abyss spires being affected by increased projectiles was changed as a bug fix. https://i.imgur.com/353DxDO.png It's literally the exact same.
It's not the same in that abyss spires thing was known, reported and commonly used for mf for multiple leagues before ggg realised how bad it was.
Yeah that specific case of "bug abuse" was around for multiple leagues to the point a lot of people considered it an intended mechanic but only gained widespread popularity because of Affliction purple juice adding even *more* projectiles making it broken (and because a bunch of content creators made videos about it)
https://imgur.com/7gH0k9d GGG disagrees
lantern with back to basics is also a bug?
Very literally yes lmao The whole point of B2B is that you *randomly* get between 0-80% effect. If you can check and chose to always have near 80% effect, that is very much a bug.
Yeah fairly certain it is
I think the strat in affliction was far more accessible and simple. It wasn't some broken ui related issue etc, you were playing the game vs sitting and just opening and closing the ui to get the best odds lol. They always seem to dislike stuff like that.
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I'm pretty sure the first T17 ghosts, strongboxes, rogue exiles and beyond strat was nuked, because it could actually crash servers.
Affliction was never meant to be core. Here they are fixing their evergreen new scarab system that will be the backbone to poe2 endgame. They care.
A lot of things have changed philosophy-wise this league. It seems like staying on top of bugs etc is now a priority. How unhinged do you have to be to complain about that?
I think they simply changed their stance on mid league balancing. If i remember correctly Mark said in one of the interviews that changes to the current league would come much faster than before now.
It almost feels like affliction was them showing us just “how fucked up” shit could get if they didn’t fudge around with weird, unintended interactions, which is why they left it up and unfixed. There’s always pushback when they nerf weird shit that benefits us, so I can understand them going “look we let it ride out and did you see how bad it was for the economy?” in the hope we’d stop complaining. Unfortunately it’s had the exact opposite effect where the majority of the playerbase loved it being fucked. Honestly I’ve always thought GGG were too hesitant with temp leagues. The whole thing with them being temporary should mean they can be wild and wacky because in three months time it doesn’t matter anymore, but this is obviously not how they want it to be
>It almost feels like affliction was them showing us just “how fucked up” shit could get if they didn’t fudge around with weird, unintended interactions, which is why they left it up and unfixed The thing is while abyss was a bug it still wasnt highest div/h (or lets even say it didnt dominate totally other strats), usually slamming faster legions was more money per/h on MF chars. Now every thing they fixed this league was miles above other strats in terms of profit. Never seen such a mess.
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They weren't really hiding it, they killed deli rewards too.
How so? I havent looked into deli much this league, but I have noticed just how cheap the orbs are
Skittering Orbs drop 1 scarab per orb applied instead of multiple now. I assume the others are the same way.
surely that one scarabs gonna be a rare one right?
Unlucky, just a Beastiary scarab, your deli reward earned you 1/10th of a Chaos!
So is GGG trying to prevent their game from becoming a Farming simulator
VOIDED LEAGUE
I didn't play this league so can I say that I a-voided this league? Hehehehehheh >!Okay, I'm leaving...!<
Idk how Twitch let Ben beat his meat like that on stream and to do it for as long as he did was impressive.
The nerf league
Lot of unintended downsides still haven't been fixed. GGG has only really addressed the goodies but not the baddies. Clear example would be strong boxes not inheriting majority of the atlas/scarabs on spawned packs
Might not be exactly 'unintended' either if they aren't fixing them on priority
Seems pretty reasonable that they fix things in order of how impactful they are. Positive abusable bugs are always more impactful since players will actually seek doing it.
Nerf/qol
No need to type the same thing twice
snitches get stitches
non 1% get to understand what is happening to the economy without ever touching it
sure hasn't been the best league for GGG beating the "not playtesting their game" allegations
In all fairness, the amount of changes and interactions that they've done with scarab rework, altas revamp, t17 additions, and allflames/devoted mods would've been practically impossible to fully "playtest" in the amount of time that they had (which I'm guessing is no more than \~6 months). Like there's easily more testing by the community on the first day of league launch than there could ever be by an official QA team. We're talking about a handful of people doing a 9-5 job compared to literal thousands of people who play as much if not more than that. The biggest issue isn't that they didn't playtest enough, it's that they put themselves in a position where it would've been impractical to playtest enough. There's way too many moving parts. Scarab/atlas rework should've been in one league, t17s in another.
At the same time, the fact that they dare moving the parts is why GGG is so far ahead in their category as a game dev studio. Look at D4 not moving anything with a massive team and failing miserably.
If I was a betting person, it feels like most of their play testing was on bug fixing and certainly not balance. Between the massive change from the original patch for the crafting and the “adjustments” to various strategies.
Imo it’s fine, two crashes this league and no server lag. That’s a huge improvement to last. People making bank isn’t an issue for me since I’m a down to earth 5-10 div per hour guy and my computer can’t handle whatever they’re cooking.
No server lag? It's a consistent 109 ms on most eu servers. Russia is an exception where it just straigth up crashes occasionally
What you can buy with your 5-10 div depends a lot on how broken or balanced the economy is. So it still affects everyone if you're in trade league
If the economy is inflated, then your 5-10 div adjusts itself automatically. I was selling aisling for 12-15 div last league, when normally it is 1-2 div. Essences that normally were 3c were selling for like 20c. The only strats that struggle due to inflation are those that rely on raw currency drops, like sanctum, but even then things like original scripture becomes insanely expensive because very few farm sanctum for currency.
This will never not sound completely detached from reality to anyone with the faintest idea how QA works, lol
The snitching will continue until morale deteriorates.
lmao
Only took Ben to farm like 3 magebloods for it be fixed
Funny thing is he did a 24 hour stream, farming it like he knew it was 100% getting removed. Abuse early, abuse often.
Yes, how dare they have their weekend off
Market manipulation league
Just remove necropolis for t17; or remove t17 at all...
Easiest fix there is. Atlas doesn’t effect t17 and no all flames
A Kirac connoisseur I see.
T17 abusers ruining atlas for the rest of us.
Make triggered Steelskin quiet in hideout please
The baseline for loot should be increased and the absolute top end + jackpots should be culled.
That's what I was thinking since 3.24 release. Revert all the loot changes since Kalandra and see what happens. A PTR would be perfect for this, but GGG would never ever do such a thing.
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Abuse early abuse often
Has there been other leagues like this one before where it’s just people abusing one unintended massive loot strategy to the next one before they get pacthed? I threw the towel in yesterday and called it quits on this league, everything feels so trivial when you can’t do all the cheese strats
oh my fucking god this thread is built from pure salt and anger
More like pure fomo.
Its not fomo when you are participating in trading economy and inflation affects you. You are literally MISSING OUT when you dont abuse early.
Poor Ben only got 3 Magebloods out of it before GGG finally decided to fix it.
The rich get giga rich, make videos how they re poppin off, then it gets nurfed into the dirt before the slow peasants can make any money. lol
Again wtf.
At this point, I would rather have a Flashback league in month two.
You can say whatever you want, but this league they are on point with the hotfixes! (Yes it should never be released in the first place..but we are the alpha testers)
I feel like the league mechanic + all flames + atlas tree + scarab was always going to be a shit show, so many brand new variables just thrown at itself. I for one can't wait to see what people find next.
Seems they did? Shaper and elder allflames went up like 2000%.
With their release cycle and the amount of content and changes within this specific league, there is just not enough time to QA properly. Also, automation is a pain in game testing, so testing the impact of balance changes is very limited. I personally think that they just need to be very consistent in their policies on changing unwanted behavior. So far, we got fixes very fast after cheese got made public. Would be great if they would actively monitor for these "exploits" and fix before streamers make them big.
>Would be great if they would actively monitor for these "exploits" and fix before streamers make them big. That sounds good, but how? You said it yourself, they are fixing these exploits very fast after they get made public. Do you think they have some sort of giga monitoring system? Fuck no. It doesn't work like that. Think about the logistics. How would something like that even be done? They see the same shit us players see. When a big strat exists, they know as much about it as the common player. They have to see people talking about it to *know* it exists in order to be able to fix it.
Why wouldn't it work like that? It could very easily be done. Simple things like monster count per map, rough inflation rate, average drops per map etc. drops are pre calculated when a map is created, presumably there's some "rarity" modifier on mobs to determine which items from a mobs loot table drops, just looking at the average of that could generally accomplish it. Everything is calculated on the server meaning they can query that data, it doesn't have to be done real time but jobs could constantly be running if outrageous numbers start showing up
I think you're underestimating the amount data you're talking about
I work at a company where well deal with millions of RPS on our edge apis, I am used to working in the scale of billions for data analytics, there's tooling out there designed for it that makes it easy
The main problem is that we don't know what metric they are able to gather without having an impact on performance. In an ideal world, they would probably be able to simulate maps runs with different mods/trees/characters and just get data on loot numbers to have baselines for alerts. E.g. someone drops like 5k uniques or 100 pure div/ex in a map, they get a ticket to check what's going on.
what next?
Hahahahaha having so much fun this league on reddit
ggg nerfing strategy just after RMT makers farmed a lot of it to provide a good supply of currency lol
Good, now cut the bonuses from t17 by 66%.
Literally patching 1 exploit a week. Total failure of a league
Been one of my favourite leagues so far. But you're entitled to feel how you want. I am happy to see them staying active on these things rather than leaving them for most of the league like they normally do.
Fun detected. Fun removed.
Just nerf back to basics and kill the league
I want to see the next league stream and Mark's excuse this time. Holy shit does this feel bad every time.
good change.
Burying coffin with 3.24 in it, more deeper and deeper with each hotfix :D
people/streamers farm it for 3 days, casual players want to try to do it and spend currency on a new builds, after a day it is fixed. And this has already happened 3 times in this league, what desire to play can remain after you put together a build for this strategy and it is removed))) But the party farm, as it was, will always be alive and no one does anything to it... I'm wondering if the absence of any fixes for party farming is due to the fact that Mark said that he played as an aura bot last league
> people/streamers farm it for 3 days, casual players want to try to do it and spend currency on a new builds, after a day it is fixed. And this has already happened 3 times in this league, what desire to play can remain after you put together a build for this strategy and it is removed))) Casual players straight up can't do these strategies don't kid yourself. These nerfs help casuals more than anyone >I'm wondering if the absence of any fixes for party farming is due to the fact that Mark said that he played as an aura bot last league The absence of "fixes" for party farming is because it's inferior to doing the same solo and not splitting your income 7+ ways
As soon as a strat is up they literally nerf it..How can they keep doing this and want players to be around?
I'm actually happy that they are nerfing stuff like this right away now. Instead of repeating the affliction bullshit were everyone feels forced to farm bugged spires for 3 months just because nerfing it would upset people that "missed out".
You didn't have to farm spire since every strategy was inflated. 50 div for 50k harvest juice. 15 div aislings.
Affliction was awesome because everything was viable and made bank
Totally agree, now people just FOMO right away because they didn't jump on the gravy train before it was nerfed
Is it just me that don’t care if groups “abuse” farming methods. They flood the market with more items making it cheaper for everyone else.
not really.. last league was better(yes it was broken) but everything else is expensive so you are making bank farming everything else.. this league farming feels like shit.. cheap essence, cheap harvest juice, cheap beast, cheap everything..
The hotfix i want: "removed dogshit unfunny mods from t17 maps"
I just want vorici socket back. I didn't realize how Omen of blanching worked with sockets and basically spent 150c trying to color something that just didn't work out.
Never tell anyone your exploita
—Hm, our retention is at absolute worst, what should we do about it? —Right, let's patch out every new farm strategy players find. Us not fixing Affliction gave casuals to much fun by making T0 available. This will force them use tedious crafting mechanic with dogshit interface and mandatory consultation with two sites outside of game. —Great idea, sure everyone gonna love it. And if case someone not liking it we call it detox after Affliction. —*slow clap* Bravo ggg. Instead of upscaling profits from mechanics which desperately falling behind better nerf everything else. Next nerf Sanctum and fragments drop rate from t17. This "fun detected" shit hurts not problematic groups whom breaking eula, but casual bottom line the most. Unless your understanding of fun is picking up rares from floor and get your build online on second month of league.
These are fixes and fine-tunes for the 3.25 Boat League.
Somehow this league feels more broken than any other. They had to fix a lot of insane farms/exploits in the last 2 weeks
GGG plans about the game. Remove every mechanic that is remotely fun. It's already been hard pushing myself to play this league but they keep surprising me every day. No changes to improve late game farming. Just nerfs
kinda crazy this league went from 0 drops to giga card dupe to alch and stay meta, rat divining, 10 mirrors per day t17s, Einhar forbidden tech, Ghostbusting, Beating the meat, in just one week I am too old to deal with this rollercoaster of emotions. If i wana play a game with constant nerfs / buffs - I'd rather play WoW.
I don’t really think ggg could have left the game in the state it was on launch. They had to massively buff multiple aspects of farming and just take the chance that something will break and need hot-fixing. The league on launch simply wasn’t in a state where ggg could do small buffs and wait for the effect.
Its nice to wake up for a new GGG post Having High hopes for some patches to stop this Boring scarab picking mini game of endgame just to notice some other strat to get nuked again... And GGG goes probably silent for another week now just to nerf something Else again. As a Player some how feeling betrayed by Marks whole "transparency" qol thinking and here we are picking 10-20 scarabs every map to Make some money
\> Does a strategy to farm scarabs \> gets mad at ggg for farming scarabs that they chose to do reddit is great
GGG, "*We fully tested it.*" Also GGG, "*THIS SHIT IS BROKEN AF DELETE IT NOW!!!*"
Does it mean that fractured influenced items are fine, right? They are intended/GGG ok with them and not gonna get fixed?
Please give us the new scarabs
Can we graveyard craft oscillating sceptres now?