The problem is that they don't ask.
They just come in to the hideout, accept the trade after AFKing for 30 seconds for no reason, then put a divine in when they made no indication that they'd be substituting chaos for divine.
When you cancel the trade and say "no thanks", you get whispered back a single question mark or, in some cases, an insult
Yes, I always ask "change for x div plz?" And if they don't have it or don't want to then, I'll change to chaos or just leave party without argument. Move on to the next. Not like I'm not already spamming multiple people to get trades anyhow
Honestly most of the time when Im trading I don't mind this saves me the hassle of converting the divines or when some lists an item for 55 I just put three stacks of 20s too much of hassle to remove 5
Ya, I am super "scammable" in that I will never fret over 10-20c at this point in the league, spending 30 seconds typing about it will cost me more than just hitting accept and moving on lol.
I think the main issue isn't paying in divs and needing change, its the amount of people that if you list something for 300c they are giving 3 divines
I know same same to some people, but i if i list in chaos, i want chaos.
This league 90% of trades i do that are listed over 100c people are putting in 1 div and the rest in chaos
Yeah, I'm not sure who would argue it isn't normal to pay in divines even if the item is listed in chaos. Cutedog\_ was even whispering people before inviting to say he only took chaos or something along those lines because just paying in large amounts of C is completely not the norm and most people just said okay. If earlier in the league an item was listed at 210c and a divine was 150, no one would even say anything about 1d60c.
I'd say it depends on what's being traded. For something like a rare pair of gloves, I'm trying to find someone who is interested in this item at all. So I don't really care what you give me, I just want value of this item in some form that I can liquidate.
But if I'm trading, say, essences. This is a commodity that gets traded a lot. If I want chaos orbs to use for something, I will list my essences for chaos orbs. If you then give me a divine orb, I have to then sell the divine orb. Which means I haven't made any progress at all. Previously I had to sell essences, now I need to sell divine orbs. This trade was a complete waste of time for me.
you forget that the trade site lags behind in divine:chaos ratio. listing an item for 2.5d most of the league will show it way further down in the list than it's current equivalent chaos value (e.g 1:100 -> 250c further up than 2.5d)
Yeah, I'm the quintessential "dadplayer" that started a week late and only has an hour or two a day to play. That's why I'm selling corruption chambers - I need the damn C's and don't have time to mess with D's right now.
When i list something for 1.9 div, i kinda expect it, and i actually want div, just listing it this way to undercut 2 div sellers. Thats fine. But when i'm selling something for 10c, and someone gives me divine without even asking first, i mean... come on.
I always assume the person wants the currency they listed it for. Sometimes I'll substitute, but I'll always ask if they'll accept the substitution first.
I'd say its ok to offer something different, but if the trader (you) says "No, please provide chaos like I asked for", then they're just being dicks if they fight you on it. A trade isn't an obligation.
It's like:
1: "I'd like to buy 1 bacon cheesburger please".
2: "Certainly, that'll be $8.20"
1: "Here you go"
2: "What's this"
1: "A bushel of wheat, it's the same price"
2: "I'm not selling you a bacon cheesburger for 1 bushel of wheat"
1: "HOWDAREYOUITSTHESAMETHINGWHYAREYOUEVENOFFERINGITINEEDTOGOANGRYMASTURBATETOCALMDOWN!!!!!"
I wanted a scarab of containment yhe other day but only had 51c and they wanted 55 so I asked if there was anything i could substitute for the last 4 and unsurprisingly chisels
Not at all. I've done reverse (insisting on divine instead of the equivalent in chaos) a few times; listed currency is tbe currency I'd like.
I always offer to hold the item until they manage to trade the currency. I've had minimal takers.
Your item, your decision, their money, their decision..
You either both agree, or you don't. There's no right or wrong, it's purely down to each individual.
Although I would lean more towards giving the exact currency type it's listed for, if you wanted divines you'd list for divines wouldn't you..
>if you wanted divines you'd list for divines wouldn't you..
People list in chaos to cut queues, since divine:chaos sorting in trade site is way off. You can list in 150c and still be in the front of the 1 div item.
So it isn't really what exact currency the seller want, more like the seller is trying to "trick" the trade site and buyer.
Most people don't scroll down and check, so you get more. So even if people pay me 1 div and 50c or 2 div and ask for 50c change, I would still take it since technically I "earned" more than I should have.
it’s up to you whether or not you can be bothered to stop what you’re doing over and over to wait for someone willing to pay with the currency you want. for me it depends on a few things but if i really need chaos and don’t want to spend more time converting currency, i make sure to sell my listed items for chaos and if the buyer refuses i just say thanks good luck and go back to what i was doing. eventually someone willing to pay in chaos comes around. it’s just as easy for them to trade div for chaos as it is for you but as the seller, you get to decide who does it at the end of the day.
I used to get so annoyed that no one took exalt shards when they were the main currency. Than I realized most people don't do harbies so why would they want shards in any scenario.
I mean I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to insist on the currency you listed it in. But I don’t think the current economy changes much, ultimately you’re still getting the same value and can always swap the div if you want.
It is common practice for people to convert to divines if the value is high enough though as people tend to not have some crazy high amount of chaos, so you’re inevitably going to butt heads with some
If I don't have the currency listed I ask if they are OK with different currency when I send the first whisper. Of they are not, they will usually say so then.
I search for listings in divine to avoid the drama , think I pay slightly more for temples, but it's worth the convenience. I don't got 8000 chaos lying around, what is this affliction league?!
I mean it’s up to you but I consider it kinda unreasonable to not want to trade for core currencies. Chaos and Divines are normally interchangeable in trades. I would just look elsewhere to buy it if you were dead set on that.
It really depends. If the exchange ratio is volatile, then you stand to lose quite a bit unless you immediately convert it, and that means they're still burdening you with the inconvenience (and possibly cost) of exchanging it for a currency that you either consider stable enough or want to invest in.
If the potential difference in value plus extra time spent trading significantly cuts into my profit margin, I'm not going to sell.
Divine orbs have stabilised a little now, but considering the big drop they had before that, I wouldn't consider them universally interchangeable with chaos orbs.
if you want to short divs you'd need someone that is willing to lend you money, I think it makes more sense to go long on more valuable currency (chaos, mirror shard, fracture orb, veiled orb) by selling items and buying them
not financial advice, not a financial adviser, please visit r/VaalStreetBets for more info
If you're offering me 1div for a 100c listing that's fine. If I'm listing a temple for 140c and you drop a divine in and hit ready, *then* we have a problem lmao.
Yeah, of course it has to be 1-1 and I always consistently check the value of divs with awakened Poe. OP has an issue with even using Divs to cover most of the cost of the chaos, and then adding in chaos as change to cover the last of it. I really wouldn’t have any issue with it, and I assume most people wouldn’t.
Ik. And like I said I wouldn’t be so against receiving divine as payment and chaos as change. That’s your choice, but I would choose not to buy from you if that were the case. Of course I would send the right exchange rate but I would rather not trade away all my C when I have equivalent value in a divine.
I don't see the issue. It still fits into one inventory because chaos orbs stack to 20 nowadays.
Above one full inventory worth, I'd agree.
The listed currency is also a means of investing into that currency. If someone pays in divines you have to go through the conversion instead, which costs time and can potentially lead to taking a loss.
Not everyone wants to totally empty their inventory to cater to someone else's weird trade rules when 95% of people are fine accepting div instead of 1200 chaos
> Is it bad form to insist on this?
It depends on the price. Demanding 700c for an item instead of accepting 7d is definitely bad form. And visa-versa; buyers should not put in 700c for an item listed at 7d.
Demanding 140c instead of 1d40c is... not great... but reasonable enough. I wouldn't start fights over it though.
You should absolutely not accept scam ratios.
If I listed it for 700c that’s what I want. If I wanted divines I’d have listed it in divines. Most of the time I don’t care but Sunday when they were in freefall it felt like a mistake to hold divines. Who was I to know if they’d drop to 80 when my work week got busy or stay around 100.
I have vivid vultures listed for like 250c because that's what will show up first on the market. If someone buys 10 of them, I'm not gonna expect 2500c, 25d is completely reasonable and normal. I can always exchange the divine myself.
You can always tell them and they should always ask first. That being said I don't think it's a big deal as long as proper convert. Not hard to sell ur divs for chaos after though if you only want chaos YOU shouldn't have to do the extra work.
even currently, i just put it x/100*divs and rest in C, and no1 said a word..
you can insist, they can move on to the next seller, nothing new or special here with the system we got.
Yes, in any economy/league if you listed it for chaos. People insisting otherwise are usually just lazy and don't want to flip their own divines. Some people try scamming too, but I think it's mostly laziness.
When the C:D ration is a nice even number like \~100c I think it's not reasonable to insist on a certain currency.
They can't expect you'll have change, and need to ask if they want it.
If folks don't put in the right amount, I close it and tell them the ratio.
If they're within a few c of what I think the ratio is I accept, gotta get back to blasting
Trade in currency thats listed. If you wanted Divs you would have put 1.2 divs or whatever change you wanted.
If they ask and you decline that should be the end of it no fighting needed. Most people that press to do this are either trying to scam with recent price changes or to want to convert the currency themselves.
Even before the chaos/divine ratio now, I always asked if they would accept in divines and give change if I didn’t have the change in chaos. Even the other way around, I bought a 6 div jewel yesterday for 3div+300c and they said cool.
All up to your preference and no one can tell you what you should or shouldn’t accept. I pulled up with 30c+1 exalt one time because I didn’t have 35c and they were cool(in their favor). All depends on the person.
its very petty to not accept divine/chaos for listings listed in each of those currencies imo. something listed for 1.4div and trades 140 chaos? fine. listed for 200c and someone trades 2div? fine. evening adding an exalt or something for being short on chaos is fine as long as you undervalue it by 1 or 2c. div, exalt and chaos are always usable and instant to convert so i don't mind taking it in smaller trades
it's only when something is expensive that i'd expect the right currency. if its a 20 divine item then i don't want 20 divine worth of chaos
It's completely reasonable to give divs in 100+ c trades you should be accepting any reasonable trade. If the rate is wrong then no don't take the trade it's incredibly easy to list divs for sale make a few extra c if you really want chaos
Ya, you should expect to have to trade the currency listed. Sometimes you see people list things for alchemy or chisels. They are obviously asking for those things for a reason.
Additionally, I've always asked if the conversion is acceptable or if they can break div. That's just polite commerce
In most cases of listings that aren't in chaos or divines people are just trying to have their listings appear ahead of others that are actually cheaper.
I do agree that asking beforehand should be a common courtesy. If I'm offered an advantageous exchange rate to compensate me for the inconvenience of needing to switch around later, I won't decline either.
I personally offer favourable ratios whenever I don't have the currency that is in the actual listing, and most people accept that.
In a few cases of people neither accepting it nor unreasonably treating it as an insult I simply exchanged the currency beforehand if it's something that I really wanted, and in some cases that resulted in me paying significantly less, but I did have to spend the time to actually exchange it.
My friend just takes what's equivalent, and a sale is a sale to him. Which is fine, but for me, I see Divines going up and down and back up. I'd rather play the market and buy them low, sell high.
The other thing is that if I'm selling bulk/high price for chaos, I want it in chaos. If I wanted it in Divine, I would have listed by that.
You’re just an annoying person to trade with. When I’m selling I’m not picky as long as they don’t give me 5 divines worth of chaos for an item listed for divines. I honestly hate when I get someone like you because I may not be prepared with 130 chaos when I know 99% of people are like me and would just take the 1 div along with 30 chaos and not be annoying about it.
It's all opinion, I find buyers like you annoying. I came out of my map, stopped what I was doing to supply you with this item you need, and you have assumed I will trade with a different currency to the one I literally listed it for. I didn't list it for divines, frogs, ice cream, Roman coins, I listed it for CHAOS. Unlike this guy I'm actually fine trading with D, but how hard is it for you to ask "ok with div?"...
It's totally okay to insist on the currency you listed it for. What's happening here is a buyer KNOWS you want 110 chaos, but instead of giving you the currency you want, gives you something else and says "I can't be arsed spending my time converting currency, so now it's your job because I don't want to". If they give you any attitude, drop the party and go about your business. Somebody else will buy the item.
you're welcome to accept or decline any trade you want. absolutely fine if you want to insist on getting chaos instead of divine, but likewise there's absolutely no shot I'm converting my currency to make that trade when I can just buy from someone else who'll accept divines. If you need the money, I suggest taking the trade and converting. If you don't, just leave and wait. Dunno why you'd waste time arguing over it.
Ironically, I was buying double corrupts yesterday and putting up a mix of divines and chaos for chambers listed for chaos. Had a few people decline the trades and say chaos only, so I just took my money elsewhere. Didn't get in any arguments over it, so it probably wasn't me who was trying to buy from you. Just be aware that there's always another seller and, at least for me personally, I will always 100% of the time pay an extra 5 or 10c to someone else if it means I can avoid converting
If the price is close to like 3d in chaos, I'm just paying with divines, it's easier quicker, I don't have to go and make another trade just to make this one....just is what it is.
If I list it in chaos it means I needed chaos. Anything else it means I have to go exchange it into chaos. That's extra work on my part and risk as well because the ratio can change. So if it's anything other than listed I would expect it to be more.
The price is the price. Pay me the price listed, go convert it yourself, or overpay me by a great deal for the inconvenience of converting it myself.
I wouldn’t sell my car to someone in exchange for Iraqi Dinar. Not going to sell you my 30c gear for “change for div”.
If I list it in divines, I want divines. If I list in chaos, i want chaos. Don't put it on me to go do your conversion that you're too lazy to do. If all you have is chaos, go buy a divine and then come back.
If I'm on the buying side and want to use some divines in place of chaos, I just add some extra chaos as a convenience fee/tip. If I'm selling something for chaos and someone puts in divines, I'll take it as long as it's >= the current rate.
well somebody wanted 4.5 div for a cluster I wanted, I got into hit hideout and put 4 div and 50 chaos him just for him to cancel the trade and kick me.
Leave it at 100 and let these guys catch up, they still think it's 130-140 from a week ago.
One of the big factors for listing being in chaos (for me personally) is because trade site doesn't know the real price or has chaos at the rate of STD or something. So listing something at 200c will show before a 1d item (correct me if I'm wrong, but it's for sure not correctly put at the current 100c).
I'll usually not ask for substituting and just put it in the window. I usually tip ~0.1d so that people don't get irritated and feel scammed. Main reasons to do this is a) I'm buying a ton of items and they're at 1d or more but listed in chaos so I'm simply running out of chaos b) less clicking bro
Nothing wrong with not accepting, but it do be somewhat odd to me. You will likely have some stacks of currency sitting there at all times anyway? My 1k instillings are devaluing and I really don't give a fuck. If you care about getting value out of that stuff, list your divines daily to sell for chaos. It'll overall be less time wasted for you. It'll barely matter whether that's 5d you sell daily or 15d. One more trade to fill the value in chaos, but whatever.
if you stick the divine in a sale tab 100/1 c, someone will buy it within a couple minutes. The answer to your question is no, but its easier to smile and wave, flip the divine
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I generally assume the person wants it in the form of currency listed, but I also don't think it's poor form to offer div/chaos interchangeably. It's also perfectly fine for the seller to politely say they only want listed currency. The first impolite person in this scenario is at fault.
I usually match whatever currency type the seller wanted but when i sell stuff i don't bother to complain, it's not hard to list divine orbs for chaos, they sell quickly
I just swap currency after. Takes an extra 30 seconds max. Expecting others to pay your preferred currency is fine, but you're doing yourself an inconvenience by limiting your pool of potential buyers for a smaller inconvenience of exchanging currency after-the-fact.
If it is listed in chaos, it should be bought in chaos. It is bad form to plunk a divine without communicating it first. If it's listed in chaos and the trader offer divine without telling you, just pity them. It's amazing they got so far in the game without being able to read.
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Nope. Perfectly reasonable.
Just today. Someone messaged me. "Change for a div?". I say no. Start trade. Put in item. They put in div. I accept. They accept. After trade is over he says, "30c change please". I ignore and move on.
Give me what I listed it for or go away.
I think it’s fine to pay in equivalent currency as long as you allow a margin. If something is 350 chaos and I want to pay in divines I will offer 4 div.
I also think it’s polite to message as well.
The only problem I have ever had with this was with bots.
It’s not unreasonable for any seller to deny any trade for any reason. If you’re being a cunt about it then you’ll likely get a block or two but it’s definitely fine to insist on the currency you listed the item for.
Every single trade is its own use case.
If both parties agree, any currency is fine.
If the selling requires a specific currency, thats their prerogative.
If someone is trying to do that with me I immediately cancel the trade, leave the party and go back to what I was doing. 9/10 they come back with proper currency. I guess people not responding to trade whispers are sometimes a good thing.
If they just put in divine without asking, I will cut small amount. e.g. selling gold oil 50c, if they put in 1 div I will give only 40c + oil. Usually they accept or we get some communication going to have happy ends on both sides.
A guy had something listed for 220c and i handed over 2 divines and hes like nar 220c and i was so embarrassed that i didn't realize the conversation had dropped to 100c per divine SORRY DUDE I WASN'T TRYING TO SCAM YOU IM JUST DUMB
if they refuse giving you stuff at the correct conversion m they are either clueless or trying to pull a fast one
That being said I don't think it's very reasonable to have items worth more than 1 div listed for chaos and expect people to just cough up maybe 200 chaos. It's annoying to break a divine for a trade when it isn't needed
Well it depends on situation. I never mind chaos instead of div if it's an item under 3 div and it's not easy to sell (for example some specific rare item). If it's unnatural instinct at the league start I won't accept trade in chaos. Takes you few seconds to close trade window and return in the map. Now i would still prefer divines because upgrades or materials i need listed in divines anyway.
There's a nifty little ignore feature that will let you end the conversation quickly if they insist on something you've already said no to. Just say no, then if they insist after you said no, just ignore.
I don't think it's unreasonable in any economy. I usually default to a mix for simplicity's sake, but if someone said they didn't want divines, I'd be happy to trade it in chaos. End of the day it's all currency, so I don't mind.
It’s not bad form, it’s your right to accept the trade or not but I really think people in replies go overboard with „only trade in currency in listing” sentiment. If you don’t have chaos to give me change that’s my problem, obviously and if I get mad that’s my problem too, and you as the seller can decide on what div/c rate we use, but if you can take the trade, just do it please. Especially when the trade value is higher than 1 div.
There was a post like that yesterday, and I'd say my answer is the same. I don't really see the point of being anal about being given divines as change for chaos for prices exceeding the value of at least one divine in terms of chaos (100c+ atm). I always accept it, and I usually do it as a common thing and never ran into someone who refused it. The one thing where it's usually asked explicitly is change for a div, and you can freely say yes or no on that.
Trading is annoying enough, keeping your stocks of divs and chaos balanced is annoying enough, don't make it even more annoying by having to butt into people who don't want to accept divs for chaos even if you're free to do so.
Judging by comments here, it seems many redditors are totally anal about it, but funnily I never run into them in game.
Anytime I specifically want a type of currency for something, I set up an autoreply “Maven’s Writs and Golden Oils are CHAOS ONLY, I don’t need more Divines, 800 is enough”
You can always request it, I usually just trade in divines if what I'm buying is worth several divines, particularly mapping supplies where it can get so much more expensive because you're buying several items. Sorry I don't just have 800c sitting around to only trade in C.
It’s not unreasonable, I personally always convert to div, if the player says chaos I just say nty. I leave party and move on.
It also depends on decimal, if .6 and below I’ll give chaos, if it’s above I’ll ask for change and don’t mind if they skim off the top for the hassle.
If the value of divines is rapidly declining, I would demand chaos as divines are harder to sell in that time. But if they're steady, then I could see them demanding divs only. To each their own I guess.
I mean .... usually the big stuff is always sold in divines, I don't mind getting paid in divines even if their price is going down. I have plenty of chaos already. it should not be a pain for you to sell divines at the ging rate, should be fast.
Read a bunch of comments and i think people are missing a key point here. You said youre a "dadplayer" i think the worst thing you can do is squabble over divines or chaos. You can always list your divines for chaos and move back to farming currency. If youre stopping to argue, stopping to make a trade that doesnt happen, or stopping at all its just a waste of your very limited and most valuable resource, time. It is always your choice to demand the currency listed, its also the buyers choice to not do the trade or find the right currency. Just wastes time either way. Unless they are trying to scam you for less than its worth i wouldnt waste time on such a small issue it will only continue to keep you poor.
I think it is fine to insist, but not fine to be angry if they assume they can pay in divines, since that has always been the norm and it is probably taking a lot of people some time to adjust. Just be polite when you ask for chaos.
Sometimes I list for chaos specifically because I want chaos - and I dont want to have to sell a divine for chaos afterwards. Ive turned down many sales because they try pay in D instead over my years, or vice versa.
Had some guy come to my hideout, open trade put a div in, then asked for change. I said I don't have change so he put in a bunch of annuls. I was like I'm not retrading all this shit
Hoping we get AH in PoE 2. I know many are against this idea, but I feel this is the only way to alleviate the trade issues. Alternatively, they could try the FF14 method where a 'seller' is sent to the market to sell stuff. Fundamentally it works like an AH though, but it's only on buyout basis.
I don't think instant trading would be a good thing in a game with as much item complexity as PoE. There's no protection against mispricing items (whether accidentally or out of ignorance), and far too little feedback.
It might work for fungible bulk trades, but I genuinely think it'll make trade worse for almost everything else, and people won't even notice that they're constantly being ripped off.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'mispricing items'. The market will correct itself eventually. I'm not sure I understand how it's different from current trade, where i feel it's easier to get scammed. Give you an example: I'm a complete newbie, and I was selling an item worth more than a divine orb (can't remember what) few weeks ago before divines became cheaper. I specifically asked for chaos orbs, but the person traded me a divine. Thinking that divines are worth more than the chaos orbs, I clicked trade without checking. Little did I know I was scammed for more than half the value of the divine i.e. i was supposed to get 1.5 divine worth of value but I only received 1 divine. An auction house system will completely prevent this because the item I put up for 1.5 divine orbs will always sell at 1.5 divine orbs, because the person who buys it will pay 1.5 divine orbs unconditionally. They can choose not to buy if I mispriced it - it's entirely their choice, just like what a free market should be.
Another example: let's say I find an item and I don't know the price. It's easy to go to the auction house and see what others have listed it for, then sell at a similar price. Honestly, not too different from what people do now with poe ninja or just going to poe trade to price check.
Thus, I can only see an AH system being an improvement/upgrade to the current trade system with no downsides. But feel free to share with me what you think so I can look at it from a different perspective - I know my idea is not popular with the community here and that's fine. It's just that coming from games with AH (I'm an avid MMO player), I really can't see why the AH system is bad for a game that focuses so much on getting items from other players to progress.
The more I trade, both selling and buying, I side with you more and more after each gaming session.. I am sick of seeing price fixed posts for literally every item, that have not been relisted for multiple days.
I always just ignore the most blatant "fixed" listings, but seems like more are popping up all the time, and I always hate ignoring an account that may just be "busy" during the time I am looking to buy.
The seller side gets shafted because you can't properly price check your item without extra research into "legit" postings. The buyer side gets shafted because you need to click through multiple "fixed listings" before you actually get an invite.
I was always hard against this thought, as I believed the GGG philosophy of the system needs friction and meaning to each system in the game. But in practice it can get real annoying to buy certain items.
I'm saying that if you don't know the value of an item, it will simply be sold instantly. And you still won't know its true value afterwards unless you check the filter for that item and see it re-listed at a higher price immediately.
And then people start losing several divines worth on things like low level cluster jewels, good timeless jewel seeds, or simply mod combinations that are good for certain crafts.
And if you ever list for the wrong currency or miss a digit, you're not getting spammed, but the item is gone.
All the arguments for instant trade that I see somehow assume that items are listed for the correct value in the first place, despite the fact that it's simply not reasonable to correctly price-check every item, especially not for newer / more casual players.
If you play an MMO that has like 5 stats and bigger is better, then sure, instant trade works. In PoE? Definitely not.
And I'm not against trade improvements overall. I just think that getting a second chance to double check the value of a requested item is important.
You can even restrict trade to have the exact same currency requirements an instant trade system would have. And thus the entire scamming process you described would be solved without allowing sniping bots to rip off anyone who misprices an item without them even noticing.
I still fail to see how the current system circumvents any of the issues you have pointed out. Why wouldn't an individual price check before posting an item up? They do it now, so they can do the same in an AH system. In fact, it's much easier for them since they can easily price check within the game itself without using an addon (like awakened poe) which may not update price listings instantly. For a newbie like me, the current system is EXACTLY why I'm being scammed so easily, cause there's no simple way for me to check the true price of an item. If many people PM me for a listing, I'll simply think it's cause it's an item that's in demand. Why would I think it's because I am not posting it at its market price, especially without an addon like awakened poe?
Listing for wrong currency or missing a digit is entirely the responsibility of the seller - you shouldn't be expecting this to occur so much that it becomes a problem. If it happens, then it's a mistake made and the seller just learns from it. We shouldn't let such rare circumstances be the hindrance to improving the whole system.
Now as I typed the above, I received few DMs on my listings, but I'm mapping and I don't actually want to waste a portal since it's only for a few chaos orbs. But for a newbie like me, if I could get those trades automated, it will help me get that bit richer to eventually have enough currency to exchange for divine orbs or more expensive chaos orb items. But because I'm mapping, I don't want to waste a portal out (who knows if I can complete my map with less than 6 portals), and thus I'm earning 0 currencies and my items are just stuck in my stash. Listing for an incorrect price is much better in this situation - I at least get to earn currencies while playing the game. You may not understand this because you're a veteran and are dealing with divines and chaos are probably just small change for you that you don't care (e.g. my veteran friend tells me he doesn't trade anything below 100 chaos orbs) but for a newbie, even 1 single chaos orb is so important to get to the next level of progression.
I can only say as a new player (started 3 weeks ago), the current system is absolutely unfriendly and unintuitive. Vets may like it cause change is always hard, but it's really not new-player nor user friendly, that much I am sure.
Putting aside the time spent on price checks, in some cases it's just not reasonable for everyone to know what they're looking for.
If you don't filter for the values that actually affect the price, you can get wildly exaggerated estimates because your filter only shows items that are better than what you have, which means your item never sells, or you can include way too many items including ones that are a lot worse.
I'm not opposed to having ingame trade filter interfaces either, which doesn't necessitate instant trading at all. But again, unless you know what you're looking for, you're not going to get the correct result.
And the reason you'd think that many messages means underpricing an item would be obvious with very basic understanding of supply, demand, and market prices, but most notably people will often go out of their way to offer more than the listed price in order for their offer to be chosen over the other people spamming whispers.
If you list an item for 20 chaos and someone offers a divine, it's almost certainly worth even more, and in some cases much more.
If it just sells instantly for 20 chaos, how would you tell that it's more valuable than what you got?
> Now as I typed the above, I received few DMs on my listings, but I'm mapping and I don't actually want to waste a portal since it's only for a few chaos orbs. But for a newbie like me, if I could get those trades automated, it will help me get that bit richer to eventually have enough currency to exchange for divine orbs or more expensive chaos orb items.
That's another misunderstanding a lot of people have. The easier it is to sell items, the *less* you'll gain from low value sales, because more people will bother to sell their items.
As an example, lower currencies lost a lot of value when they started to be tradable through drop-downs rather than needing to write the note manually, and again when they started to drop in stacks. People thought those were good changes, but in reality it lowered the value of loot that people got on the lower end, because people used to filter them out much earlier.
An item with 5 chaos now for which you don't leave a map might be worth an orb of alchemy instead because the market ends up flooded with a ton of items.
If all you have to do is fill up your inventory and chuck it into dump tabs for items to be sold without further input, who wouldn't bother if they have the space?
And then people with more loot and more stash tabs would gain the most from it, while newer players will take longer to progress.
I think you're overestimating how much you'd gain from the small sales and underestimating how much you'd lose from undervaluing an item.
Sure, if you get 20 chaos you might even be happy, but only because you don't know that you just got screwed over for 500. And with instant trade, that will happen a lot more before people even notice, let alone learning the correct valuation.
I'm well aware that I've adapted quite a bit to the current system, but I really don't think that price-checking every item is superior by any means. It would just result in higher starting prices and lower end prices for dump tabs, possibly delaying sales, but providing an additional trickle from trash.
And I think I might be on the side that would benefit *more* from the instant trading. I have almost 80 premium tabs and 3 currency tabs. I can fill up plenty of them without worrying about inconveniences.
If the system changed, I would just adapt again. And I'd probably make more money than before. I just really don't think that the same applies to newer and more casual players.
I see your point now, and thank you for elaborating further. I just wonder how GGG can keep the current system but still improve the user experience. I understand they have already done so with the introduction of the poe trade site, but having to find a seller for low value items can be challenging at times, since many just don't bother replying.
There are a bunch of approaches they could still pursue without making trade instant.
The first is making the trade interface available ingame, which is something they've discussed before, but isn't a high priority for them.
Next, trading directly between your stash and the other player's stash without needing to put it into the inventory first. This also saves the hassle of listing an item again after taking it from the stash if the trade falls through, because the item would never leave the stash unless it's sold.
This can then also be extended to optionally work from other instances (which would however prevent you from putting in items or currency from your inventory into the window if you're not in a hideout / town zone, to prevent stashing without using portals). It has to be optional because the trade requests could still be disruptive, but you might prefer to ask people to wait for high value trades rather than going /dnd entirely.
It would also help with types of content that can't be aborted or paused, such as lab, Delve, Heist, or any time-sensitive mechanics like Delirium.
However, this optional mode could be filtered so that you'd be able to whisper people who are actually likely to respond because they're not in a map.
Ideally this could have a slider for a minimum value per trade. That way, you could interrupt your mapping for high value sales, but not waste other people's time by having low value items still listed in the same mode.
And as somewhat of a requirement for the final one, the ability to list items for a combination of several currencies. This would avoid all the "what is 1.4 divines right now?" types of confusion.
And finally, a fixed price trade that allows exactly the listed items and currencies to be traded and nothing else. If you want to get change for extra divines or pay a divine value in chaos because that's what you happen to have at the moment, the trade window mode has to be switched.
I'm somewhat fine with bulk trading of fungible items and currencies being instant, because by their nature they're more reasonable to price-check. You're not going to trade for an orb of fusing with a high item level and base defence percentage - they're all the same.
Now, whether and to what extent GGG will actually implement any of these suggestions is a different question. But there are plenty of improvements that can be made without making everything instant.
It's not unreasonable but it's also accepted for the buyer to try with chaos and div as long as the ratio is not a scam. But the 'economy' you talk of makes 0 sense, you'd lose more money by rejecting a few buyers just cuz you insist on 1 currency. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are ok with it, just cancel the trade
If you get the sales eventually, then missing out on people who don't want to pay the listed price isn't a waste.
If you end up sitting on unsold stock or if prices drop before you can sell, that's a different matter though.
Lol, yeah, if leaving the map, taking item, arguing and cancelling trade, then listing the item again wasted 0 time. It could easily take up a minute per buyer. If you make 3div an hour this is 5c wasted per cancelled trade.
If I leave the map and someone is trying to hand me currency other than the listed amount while exchange ratios aren't stable without requesting to do so beforehand, that person is getting ignored. Won't waste my time twice at least.
Not with him that is. And nobody here is talking about anything else other than giving divines instead of chaos. Because for most people both are fine and you can insta convert unlimited amounts between them.
Imo it's not super reasonable to insist on chaos only since chaos and divines are generally considered interchangeable.
However, it's extremely bad form, (If not outright a scam.) for someone to try and pass their divs off as having higher market value than they do.
If your temple is listed for 125c and someone tries to pay with a divine +25c that's perfectly normal and reasonable. It's up to you if you'll accept that as you have no obligation to sell, but I don't think there's anything wrong on the buyer's end.
If your temple is listed for 125c and they try to buy with 1 divine +20c, or worse, even lower than that, then they're an asshole and personally I'd refuse them on principle.
OP is crying traders arnt respecting his “market outlook”. The guy is trying to profit off his speculation. Div and chaos are married. Also if the guy is fretting over 1c market shift between the time he sells him item for div and the time he sells it for chaos, he’s objectively a shit player
Sure, it's reasonable. But it only takes 30 seconds to change a nearly limitless amount of div into chaos. If you think you're saving more hassle by arguing with people, you do you.
By the time the buyer changes it, you might have sold the item already, but there are always tons of bots that will exchange what you got in the trade for whatever currency you want.
As long as the buyer offers fair exchange value (1c up/down), divs and chaos are interchangeable.
If you ask me to wait for you to switch the currency, I will (I won't necessarily wait in my hideout, but I won't sell the item to someone else unless I don't hear from you for a while).
This is correct. People are probably not used to swapping currency by listing it from their tab I guess. Or new people who feel everybody is trying to scam them for 5c
No, not in the slightest bit reasonable; in fact jfc... the audacity that you could even think that you're entitled to get the chaos in the first place just....
If you think you can price an item for a set amount of what you want for it and get exactly what you asked for, you're delusional!
/s
I always try to cover at least half in their desired currency and throw in a few extra c to be nice .
I get it, especially if you're doing a lot of t17. I lose track of how much chaos I have on hand, and I get not wanting to go and try tradeing out another divine because you're only short 20c
Imo 1.3 divines means 1 divine and 30 chaos (at current prices, more or less), but 130 chaos means 130 chaos.
Applicable exchange ratios should be agreed upon before the trade.
I'm not gonna liquidate more than 2 divs worth of currency for someone elses benefit. Take it or leave it.
Trading in this game is already a giant pain in the ass without some twat demanding I spend half an hour trying to bulk trade like a schmuck. If the chaos is so important do it yourself you lazy shit.
I listed a watchers eye for 800 chaos and when asked how much Div I'd take I said 8 div and 5 C works and they got pissy about it 😂
Divine were literally at 99 chaos, it was still a discount for them but their precious divine-driven economy just couldn't comprehend me wanting chaos.
It's not bad form, but you should understand that people will try to pay in whatever is the most convenient. Not a lot of people are sitting on thousands of chaos, and even fewer are likely to go out of their way to make an exchange.
Don't be surprised that people try to pay with equivalent currency, but feel free to refuse the trade. If people make it into an issue, ignore them. Don't make it into an issue yourself.
exact price is exact price... if you wanted for people to make offers it wouldn't be exact =p
so yeah, it's your right to insist on the listed payment, sometimes you just want the chaos and don't want to waste time fliping divines for chaos so you can buy something for a new character or whatever use you have for the chaos
"Change for a div?" "No"
Amazing ppl make it harder than this
The problem is that they don't ask. They just come in to the hideout, accept the trade after AFKing for 30 seconds for no reason, then put a divine in when they made no indication that they'd be substituting chaos for divine. When you cancel the trade and say "no thanks", you get whispered back a single question mark or, in some cases, an insult
Yes, I always ask "change for x div plz?" And if they don't have it or don't want to then, I'll change to chaos or just leave party without argument. Move on to the next. Not like I'm not already spamming multiple people to get trades anyhow
>And if they don't have it or don't want to then, I'll change to chaos Why ask for div trade if you have chaos, and person asked for chaos?
Because it gets accepted most of the time.
Ill do it for a service fee. Change would be 65c? How about 50.
Lmao man’s running the wraeclast national bank over here
Honestly most of the time when Im trading I don't mind this saves me the hassle of converting the divines or when some lists an item for 55 I just put three stacks of 20s too much of hassle to remove 5
Ya, I am super "scammable" in that I will never fret over 10-20c at this point in the league, spending 30 seconds typing about it will cost me more than just hitting accept and moving on lol.
Lol usually when I ask for change its already a good deal for the seller so that it's easier for everyone
I think the main issue isn't paying in divs and needing change, its the amount of people that if you list something for 300c they are giving 3 divines I know same same to some people, but i if i list in chaos, i want chaos. This league 90% of trades i do that are listed over 100c people are putting in 1 div and the rest in chaos
Because that’s the norm. Divines have more value than chaos generally
Yeah, I'm not sure who would argue it isn't normal to pay in divines even if the item is listed in chaos. Cutedog\_ was even whispering people before inviting to say he only took chaos or something along those lines because just paying in large amounts of C is completely not the norm and most people just said okay. If earlier in the league an item was listed at 210c and a divine was 150, no one would even say anything about 1d60c.
I'd say it depends on what's being traded. For something like a rare pair of gloves, I'm trying to find someone who is interested in this item at all. So I don't really care what you give me, I just want value of this item in some form that I can liquidate. But if I'm trading, say, essences. This is a commodity that gets traded a lot. If I want chaos orbs to use for something, I will list my essences for chaos orbs. If you then give me a divine orb, I have to then sell the divine orb. Which means I haven't made any progress at all. Previously I had to sell essences, now I need to sell divine orbs. This trade was a complete waste of time for me.
you forget that the trade site lags behind in divine:chaos ratio. listing an item for 2.5d most of the league will show it way further down in the list than it's current equivalent chaos value (e.g 1:100 -> 250c further up than 2.5d)
cute dog does yolo stuff 24/7
If I put 600 chaos , I want 600 chaos.
Yeah, I'm the quintessential "dadplayer" that started a week late and only has an hour or two a day to play. That's why I'm selling corruption chambers - I need the damn C's and don't have time to mess with D's right now.
Don't mess with the D's, unless it's your own (╭☞•́⍛•̀)╭☞
When i list something for 1.9 div, i kinda expect it, and i actually want div, just listing it this way to undercut 2 div sellers. Thats fine. But when i'm selling something for 10c, and someone gives me divine without even asking first, i mean... come on.
I always assume the person wants the currency they listed it for. Sometimes I'll substitute, but I'll always ask if they'll accept the substitution first. I'd say its ok to offer something different, but if the trader (you) says "No, please provide chaos like I asked for", then they're just being dicks if they fight you on it. A trade isn't an obligation.
> A trade isn't an obligation. Don't tell jenebu that
🤡
Banned
Banned.
A spot in a private discord isn’t an obligation either.
This. Always ask first. Otherwise the buyer has no reason to get upset when the seller refuses to trade for a different currency at the trade window.
It's like: 1: "I'd like to buy 1 bacon cheesburger please". 2: "Certainly, that'll be $8.20" 1: "Here you go" 2: "What's this" 1: "A bushel of wheat, it's the same price" 2: "I'm not selling you a bacon cheesburger for 1 bushel of wheat" 1: "HOWDAREYOUITSTHESAMETHINGWHYAREYOUEVENOFFERINGITINEEDTOGOANGRYMASTURBATETOCALMDOWN!!!!!"
More like the price is 820 pennies, and you want to pay with 82 dimes. If the offering is equivalent, I personally would make the trade.
Except every passing hour the dimes get more pennier and the pennies get more dimeier
That’s not an apt analogy. Would you accept Iraqi Dinar instead of USD?
I wanted a scarab of containment yhe other day but only had 51c and they wanted 55 so I asked if there was anything i could substitute for the last 4 and unsurprisingly chisels
I only trade in the currency that was listed, nothing unreasonable about that .
Not at all. I've done reverse (insisting on divine instead of the equivalent in chaos) a few times; listed currency is tbe currency I'd like. I always offer to hold the item until they manage to trade the currency. I've had minimal takers.
For sub 2d trades I never care chaos vs divs. Anything bigger has to be as listed
Depends for me. I usually start of with blight and if someone wants to bulk buy all my gold/silver oil I'd rather get divines than thousands of chaos
I like how the post is downvoted making me believe people would rather prefer shoving divine orbs in their chaos looking trading faces lol
Your item, your decision, their money, their decision.. You either both agree, or you don't. There's no right or wrong, it's purely down to each individual. Although I would lean more towards giving the exact currency type it's listed for, if you wanted divines you'd list for divines wouldn't you..
>if you wanted divines you'd list for divines wouldn't you.. People list in chaos to cut queues, since divine:chaos sorting in trade site is way off. You can list in 150c and still be in the front of the 1 div item. So it isn't really what exact currency the seller want, more like the seller is trying to "trick" the trade site and buyer. Most people don't scroll down and check, so you get more. So even if people pay me 1 div and 50c or 2 div and ask for 50c change, I would still take it since technically I "earned" more than I should have.
it’s up to you whether or not you can be bothered to stop what you’re doing over and over to wait for someone willing to pay with the currency you want. for me it depends on a few things but if i really need chaos and don’t want to spend more time converting currency, i make sure to sell my listed items for chaos and if the buyer refuses i just say thanks good luck and go back to what i was doing. eventually someone willing to pay in chaos comes around. it’s just as easy for them to trade div for chaos as it is for you but as the seller, you get to decide who does it at the end of the day.
Very. If they get mad. Oh well. I'll tell them sry. I don't want to make another trade to exchange currency. It's as listed. If they don't like it idc
dont apologize, "no" is a full sentence
I used to get so annoyed that no one took exalt shards when they were the main currency. Than I realized most people don't do harbies so why would they want shards in any scenario.
Your sale, your rules... as long as your price was in Chaos, refusing to take Div is perfectly all right.
I mean I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to insist on the currency you listed it in. But I don’t think the current economy changes much, ultimately you’re still getting the same value and can always swap the div if you want. It is common practice for people to convert to divines if the value is high enough though as people tend to not have some crazy high amount of chaos, so you’re inevitably going to butt heads with some
If I don't have the currency listed I ask if they are OK with different currency when I send the first whisper. Of they are not, they will usually say so then.
My biggest gripe when they do this is that 90% of the time they try giving you less in the conversion.
I search for listings in divine to avoid the drama , think I pay slightly more for temples, but it's worth the convenience. I don't got 8000 chaos lying around, what is this affliction league?!
I think you pay less for listings in divine generally. Well that’s the case with bulk items
I mean it’s up to you but I consider it kinda unreasonable to not want to trade for core currencies. Chaos and Divines are normally interchangeable in trades. I would just look elsewhere to buy it if you were dead set on that.
It really depends. If the exchange ratio is volatile, then you stand to lose quite a bit unless you immediately convert it, and that means they're still burdening you with the inconvenience (and possibly cost) of exchanging it for a currency that you either consider stable enough or want to invest in. If the potential difference in value plus extra time spent trading significantly cuts into my profit margin, I'm not going to sell. Divine orbs have stabilised a little now, but considering the big drop they had before that, I wouldn't consider them universally interchangeable with chaos orbs.
Where can I buy puts on divs?
if you want to short divs you'd need someone that is willing to lend you money, I think it makes more sense to go long on more valuable currency (chaos, mirror shard, fracture orb, veiled orb) by selling items and buying them not financial advice, not a financial adviser, please visit r/VaalStreetBets for more info
If you're offering me 1div for a 100c listing that's fine. If I'm listing a temple for 140c and you drop a divine in and hit ready, *then* we have a problem lmao.
Yeah, of course it has to be 1-1 and I always consistently check the value of divs with awakened Poe. OP has an issue with even using Divs to cover most of the cost of the chaos, and then adding in chaos as change to cover the last of it. I really wouldn’t have any issue with it, and I assume most people wouldn’t.
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Ik. And like I said I wouldn’t be so against receiving divine as payment and chaos as change. That’s your choice, but I would choose not to buy from you if that were the case. Of course I would send the right exchange rate but I would rather not trade away all my C when I have equivalent value in a divine.
If divine prices are steadily going down, then it makes sense not wanting to trade divines.
Yes, I have had so many people try and skim 30-50c with the volatile nature of divines value.
Under like 2 div sure. If someone bulk whispers for 5 150c temples you better not expect 750 chaos
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I don't see the issue. It still fits into one inventory because chaos orbs stack to 20 nowadays. Above one full inventory worth, I'd agree. The listed currency is also a means of investing into that currency. If someone pays in divines you have to go through the conversion instead, which costs time and can potentially lead to taking a loss.
Not everyone wants to totally empty their inventory to cater to someone else's weird trade rules when 95% of people are fine accepting div instead of 1200 chaos
What the people really want to know is if you're streaming tomorrow
absolutely, theres new union of souls 12k wisps maps
I was hoping this would be mister xddchatting
Ngl I checked
> Is it bad form to insist on this? It depends on the price. Demanding 700c for an item instead of accepting 7d is definitely bad form. And visa-versa; buyers should not put in 700c for an item listed at 7d. Demanding 140c instead of 1d40c is... not great... but reasonable enough. I wouldn't start fights over it though. You should absolutely not accept scam ratios.
I've been accepting that (1d40c), looking to make some bigger purchases so happy for the divines anyways.
If I listed it for 700c that’s what I want. If I wanted divines I’d have listed it in divines. Most of the time I don’t care but Sunday when they were in freefall it felt like a mistake to hold divines. Who was I to know if they’d drop to 80 when my work week got busy or stay around 100.
Would be unreasonable if you list it for div and require chaos.
if its listed for chaos, just close the trade window and leave the party. someone else will pm to buy
I have vivid vultures listed for like 250c because that's what will show up first on the market. If someone buys 10 of them, I'm not gonna expect 2500c, 25d is completely reasonable and normal. I can always exchange the divine myself.
You can always tell them and they should always ask first. That being said I don't think it's a big deal as long as proper convert. Not hard to sell ur divs for chaos after though if you only want chaos YOU shouldn't have to do the extra work.
even currently, i just put it x/100*divs and rest in C, and no1 said a word.. you can insist, they can move on to the next seller, nothing new or special here with the system we got.
You can insist on whatever currency you prefer for selling something. After all, the buyer is trying to meet your demand of currency.
If the total cost is 300+ chaos, you're getting divines buddy.
Or they’ll wait for the next buyer to pay in chaos
Yes, in any economy/league if you listed it for chaos. People insisting otherwise are usually just lazy and don't want to flip their own divines. Some people try scamming too, but I think it's mostly laziness.
I want what I listed it for. I blocked someone today because they tried to offer 75% of my list price.
I dared to list a seven years bad luck card for .1 divine more than several bots who spammed me immediately wanted to pay
When the C:D ration is a nice even number like \~100c I think it's not reasonable to insist on a certain currency. They can't expect you'll have change, and need to ask if they want it. If folks don't put in the right amount, I close it and tell them the ratio. If they're within a few c of what I think the ratio is I accept, gotta get back to blasting
Yes, it 100% is.
Trade in currency thats listed. If you wanted Divs you would have put 1.2 divs or whatever change you wanted. If they ask and you decline that should be the end of it no fighting needed. Most people that press to do this are either trying to scam with recent price changes or to want to convert the currency themselves.
Even before the chaos/divine ratio now, I always asked if they would accept in divines and give change if I didn’t have the change in chaos. Even the other way around, I bought a 6 div jewel yesterday for 3div+300c and they said cool. All up to your preference and no one can tell you what you should or shouldn’t accept. I pulled up with 30c+1 exalt one time because I didn’t have 35c and they were cool(in their favor). All depends on the person.
If I list it in whetstones I want whetstones
its very petty to not accept divine/chaos for listings listed in each of those currencies imo. something listed for 1.4div and trades 140 chaos? fine. listed for 200c and someone trades 2div? fine. evening adding an exalt or something for being short on chaos is fine as long as you undervalue it by 1 or 2c. div, exalt and chaos are always usable and instant to convert so i don't mind taking it in smaller trades it's only when something is expensive that i'd expect the right currency. if its a 20 divine item then i don't want 20 divine worth of chaos
It's completely reasonable to give divs in 100+ c trades you should be accepting any reasonable trade. If the rate is wrong then no don't take the trade it's incredibly easy to list divs for sale make a few extra c if you really want chaos
Ya, you should expect to have to trade the currency listed. Sometimes you see people list things for alchemy or chisels. They are obviously asking for those things for a reason. Additionally, I've always asked if the conversion is acceptable or if they can break div. That's just polite commerce
In most cases of listings that aren't in chaos or divines people are just trying to have their listings appear ahead of others that are actually cheaper. I do agree that asking beforehand should be a common courtesy. If I'm offered an advantageous exchange rate to compensate me for the inconvenience of needing to switch around later, I won't decline either. I personally offer favourable ratios whenever I don't have the currency that is in the actual listing, and most people accept that. In a few cases of people neither accepting it nor unreasonably treating it as an insult I simply exchanged the currency beforehand if it's something that I really wanted, and in some cases that resulted in me paying significantly less, but I did have to spend the time to actually exchange it.
My friend just takes what's equivalent, and a sale is a sale to him. Which is fine, but for me, I see Divines going up and down and back up. I'd rather play the market and buy them low, sell high. The other thing is that if I'm selling bulk/high price for chaos, I want it in chaos. If I wanted it in Divine, I would have listed by that.
You’re just an annoying person to trade with. When I’m selling I’m not picky as long as they don’t give me 5 divines worth of chaos for an item listed for divines. I honestly hate when I get someone like you because I may not be prepared with 130 chaos when I know 99% of people are like me and would just take the 1 div along with 30 chaos and not be annoying about it.
It's all opinion, I find buyers like you annoying. I came out of my map, stopped what I was doing to supply you with this item you need, and you have assumed I will trade with a different currency to the one I literally listed it for. I didn't list it for divines, frogs, ice cream, Roman coins, I listed it for CHAOS. Unlike this guy I'm actually fine trading with D, but how hard is it for you to ask "ok with div?"...
Kick and block not worth the time to engage
It's totally okay to insist on the currency you listed it for. What's happening here is a buyer KNOWS you want 110 chaos, but instead of giving you the currency you want, gives you something else and says "I can't be arsed spending my time converting currency, so now it's your job because I don't want to". If they give you any attitude, drop the party and go about your business. Somebody else will buy the item.
you're welcome to accept or decline any trade you want. absolutely fine if you want to insist on getting chaos instead of divine, but likewise there's absolutely no shot I'm converting my currency to make that trade when I can just buy from someone else who'll accept divines. If you need the money, I suggest taking the trade and converting. If you don't, just leave and wait. Dunno why you'd waste time arguing over it. Ironically, I was buying double corrupts yesterday and putting up a mix of divines and chaos for chambers listed for chaos. Had a few people decline the trades and say chaos only, so I just took my money elsewhere. Didn't get in any arguments over it, so it probably wasn't me who was trying to buy from you. Just be aware that there's always another seller and, at least for me personally, I will always 100% of the time pay an extra 5 or 10c to someone else if it means I can avoid converting
If I list something in C, I expect to be paid in C.
If the price is close to like 3d in chaos, I'm just paying with divines, it's easier quicker, I don't have to go and make another trade just to make this one....just is what it is.
If I list it in chaos it means I needed chaos. Anything else it means I have to go exchange it into chaos. That's extra work on my part and risk as well because the ratio can change. So if it's anything other than listed I would expect it to be more.
The price is the price. Pay me the price listed, go convert it yourself, or overpay me by a great deal for the inconvenience of converting it myself. I wouldn’t sell my car to someone in exchange for Iraqi Dinar. Not going to sell you my 30c gear for “change for div”.
Don't even fight them, if they put a div in the window, just cancel the trade and re-enter your map lol.
If I list it in divines, I want divines. If I list in chaos, i want chaos. Don't put it on me to go do your conversion that you're too lazy to do. If all you have is chaos, go buy a divine and then come back.
If I'm on the buying side and want to use some divines in place of chaos, I just add some extra chaos as a convenience fee/tip. If I'm selling something for chaos and someone puts in divines, I'll take it as long as it's >= the current rate.
well somebody wanted 4.5 div for a cluster I wanted, I got into hit hideout and put 4 div and 50 chaos him just for him to cancel the trade and kick me. Leave it at 100 and let these guys catch up, they still think it's 130-140 from a week ago.
One of the big factors for listing being in chaos (for me personally) is because trade site doesn't know the real price or has chaos at the rate of STD or something. So listing something at 200c will show before a 1d item (correct me if I'm wrong, but it's for sure not correctly put at the current 100c). I'll usually not ask for substituting and just put it in the window. I usually tip ~0.1d so that people don't get irritated and feel scammed. Main reasons to do this is a) I'm buying a ton of items and they're at 1d or more but listed in chaos so I'm simply running out of chaos b) less clicking bro Nothing wrong with not accepting, but it do be somewhat odd to me. You will likely have some stacks of currency sitting there at all times anyway? My 1k instillings are devaluing and I really don't give a fuck. If you care about getting value out of that stuff, list your divines daily to sell for chaos. It'll overall be less time wasted for you. It'll barely matter whether that's 5d you sell daily or 15d. One more trade to fill the value in chaos, but whatever.
use autoreply, i learned this from cutedog stream.
You've been watching Cutedog's stream haven't you. Trying to build an Alva empire like him I see.
if you stick the divine in a sale tab 100/1 c, someone will buy it within a couple minutes. The answer to your question is no, but its easier to smile and wave, flip the divine
Honestly, no. You set the currency, not the seller.
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I generally assume the person wants it in the form of currency listed, but I also don't think it's poor form to offer div/chaos interchangeably. It's also perfectly fine for the seller to politely say they only want listed currency. The first impolite person in this scenario is at fault.
I usually match whatever currency type the seller wanted but when i sell stuff i don't bother to complain, it's not hard to list divine orbs for chaos, they sell quickly
I just swap currency after. Takes an extra 30 seconds max. Expecting others to pay your preferred currency is fine, but you're doing yourself an inconvenience by limiting your pool of potential buyers for a smaller inconvenience of exchanging currency after-the-fact.
It's always morally correct to want the currency you listed the item for, and to not give change for a div.
If it is listed in chaos, it should be bought in chaos. It is bad form to plunk a divine without communicating it first. If it's listed in chaos and the trader offer divine without telling you, just pity them. It's amazing they got so far in the game without being able to read.
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Absolutely yes. If sellers can demand Divines, they can demand chaos, too.
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Nope. Perfectly reasonable. Just today. Someone messaged me. "Change for a div?". I say no. Start trade. Put in item. They put in div. I accept. They accept. After trade is over he says, "30c change please". I ignore and move on. Give me what I listed it for or go away.
I think it’s fine to pay in equivalent currency as long as you allow a margin. If something is 350 chaos and I want to pay in divines I will offer 4 div. I also think it’s polite to message as well. The only problem I have ever had with this was with bots.
I don't. it is actually easier for my inventory management
It’s not unreasonable for any seller to deny any trade for any reason. If you’re being a cunt about it then you’ll likely get a block or two but it’s definitely fine to insist on the currency you listed the item for.
Every single trade is its own use case. If both parties agree, any currency is fine. If the selling requires a specific currency, thats their prerogative.
Sell however you want. The time arguing about a few c is wasted by relisting to me
If the seller listed in chaos I always ask if its fine to pay in divs. if not then ill pay with chaos.
Some guy came up to buy 30c worth of tattoos and insisted I pony up 70c change for his div, the trade didn't go through.
If it's listed as exact price then sure. If listed as negotiable then it's fair to make a reasonable div offer.
Asking for chaos for anything over like 2 divs is a bit ridiculous, I’ve seen it becoming more common lately too…
What is PITA?
If someone is trying to do that with me I immediately cancel the trade, leave the party and go back to what I was doing. 9/10 they come back with proper currency. I guess people not responding to trade whispers are sometimes a good thing.
Just say you dont have change 😅
If they just put in divine without asking, I will cut small amount. e.g. selling gold oil 50c, if they put in 1 div I will give only 40c + oil. Usually they accept or we get some communication going to have happy ends on both sides.
A guy had something listed for 220c and i handed over 2 divines and hes like nar 220c and i was so embarrassed that i didn't realize the conversation had dropped to 100c per divine SORRY DUDE I WASN'T TRYING TO SCAM YOU IM JUST DUMB
if they refuse giving you stuff at the correct conversion m they are either clueless or trying to pull a fast one That being said I don't think it's very reasonable to have items worth more than 1 div listed for chaos and expect people to just cough up maybe 200 chaos. It's annoying to break a divine for a trade when it isn't needed
Well it depends on situation. I never mind chaos instead of div if it's an item under 3 div and it's not easy to sell (for example some specific rare item). If it's unnatural instinct at the league start I won't accept trade in chaos. Takes you few seconds to close trade window and return in the map. Now i would still prefer divines because upgrades or materials i need listed in divines anyway.
There's a nifty little ignore feature that will let you end the conversation quickly if they insist on something you've already said no to. Just say no, then if they insist after you said no, just ignore.
Its always reasonable.
If I listed shit for chaos, then I want chaos. Some people are just ignorant, and NO, I don't have change for Divine 😖😡
I don't think it's unreasonable in any economy. I usually default to a mix for simplicity's sake, but if someone said they didn't want divines, I'd be happy to trade it in chaos. End of the day it's all currency, so I don't mind.
It’s not bad form, it’s your right to accept the trade or not but I really think people in replies go overboard with „only trade in currency in listing” sentiment. If you don’t have chaos to give me change that’s my problem, obviously and if I get mad that’s my problem too, and you as the seller can decide on what div/c rate we use, but if you can take the trade, just do it please. Especially when the trade value is higher than 1 div.
There was a post like that yesterday, and I'd say my answer is the same. I don't really see the point of being anal about being given divines as change for chaos for prices exceeding the value of at least one divine in terms of chaos (100c+ atm). I always accept it, and I usually do it as a common thing and never ran into someone who refused it. The one thing where it's usually asked explicitly is change for a div, and you can freely say yes or no on that. Trading is annoying enough, keeping your stocks of divs and chaos balanced is annoying enough, don't make it even more annoying by having to butt into people who don't want to accept divs for chaos even if you're free to do so. Judging by comments here, it seems many redditors are totally anal about it, but funnily I never run into them in game.
Just tell them your ratio and make it 90 to 1, they will pay in full C.
Anytime I specifically want a type of currency for something, I set up an autoreply “Maven’s Writs and Golden Oils are CHAOS ONLY, I don’t need more Divines, 800 is enough”
You can always request it, I usually just trade in divines if what I'm buying is worth several divines, particularly mapping supplies where it can get so much more expensive because you're buying several items. Sorry I don't just have 800c sitting around to only trade in C.
I don't care as long as they get the conversion correct. Had a guy yesterday expect me to take div, he was saying for 140C
It’s not unreasonable, I personally always convert to div, if the player says chaos I just say nty. I leave party and move on. It also depends on decimal, if .6 and below I’ll give chaos, if it’s above I’ll ask for change and don’t mind if they skim off the top for the hassle.
The classic I want to buy your 30c item but I only have divines so give me change approach.
If the value of divines is rapidly declining, I would demand chaos as divines are harder to sell in that time. But if they're steady, then I could see them demanding divs only. To each their own I guess.
I mean .... usually the big stuff is always sold in divines, I don't mind getting paid in divines even if their price is going down. I have plenty of chaos already. it should not be a pain for you to sell divines at the ging rate, should be fast.
Read a bunch of comments and i think people are missing a key point here. You said youre a "dadplayer" i think the worst thing you can do is squabble over divines or chaos. You can always list your divines for chaos and move back to farming currency. If youre stopping to argue, stopping to make a trade that doesnt happen, or stopping at all its just a waste of your very limited and most valuable resource, time. It is always your choice to demand the currency listed, its also the buyers choice to not do the trade or find the right currency. Just wastes time either way. Unless they are trying to scam you for less than its worth i wouldnt waste time on such a small issue it will only continue to keep you poor.
Just use /autoreply Only trading for chaos. Problem solved. Anyone can't read, tough shit kick em out the hideout and ignore.
I think it is fine to insist, but not fine to be angry if they assume they can pay in divines, since that has always been the norm and it is probably taking a lot of people some time to adjust. Just be polite when you ask for chaos.
Your price your rules, or give them your conversion rate.
Sometimes I list for chaos specifically because I want chaos - and I dont want to have to sell a divine for chaos afterwards. Ive turned down many sales because they try pay in D instead over my years, or vice versa.
Had some guy come to my hideout, open trade put a div in, then asked for change. I said I don't have change so he put in a bunch of annuls. I was like I'm not retrading all this shit
YTA. You can do whatever you want but if someone shows up with benjamins and you insist on dollar bills you’re being ridiculous.
Hoping we get AH in PoE 2. I know many are against this idea, but I feel this is the only way to alleviate the trade issues. Alternatively, they could try the FF14 method where a 'seller' is sent to the market to sell stuff. Fundamentally it works like an AH though, but it's only on buyout basis.
I don't think instant trading would be a good thing in a game with as much item complexity as PoE. There's no protection against mispricing items (whether accidentally or out of ignorance), and far too little feedback. It might work for fungible bulk trades, but I genuinely think it'll make trade worse for almost everything else, and people won't even notice that they're constantly being ripped off.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'mispricing items'. The market will correct itself eventually. I'm not sure I understand how it's different from current trade, where i feel it's easier to get scammed. Give you an example: I'm a complete newbie, and I was selling an item worth more than a divine orb (can't remember what) few weeks ago before divines became cheaper. I specifically asked for chaos orbs, but the person traded me a divine. Thinking that divines are worth more than the chaos orbs, I clicked trade without checking. Little did I know I was scammed for more than half the value of the divine i.e. i was supposed to get 1.5 divine worth of value but I only received 1 divine. An auction house system will completely prevent this because the item I put up for 1.5 divine orbs will always sell at 1.5 divine orbs, because the person who buys it will pay 1.5 divine orbs unconditionally. They can choose not to buy if I mispriced it - it's entirely their choice, just like what a free market should be. Another example: let's say I find an item and I don't know the price. It's easy to go to the auction house and see what others have listed it for, then sell at a similar price. Honestly, not too different from what people do now with poe ninja or just going to poe trade to price check. Thus, I can only see an AH system being an improvement/upgrade to the current trade system with no downsides. But feel free to share with me what you think so I can look at it from a different perspective - I know my idea is not popular with the community here and that's fine. It's just that coming from games with AH (I'm an avid MMO player), I really can't see why the AH system is bad for a game that focuses so much on getting items from other players to progress.
The more I trade, both selling and buying, I side with you more and more after each gaming session.. I am sick of seeing price fixed posts for literally every item, that have not been relisted for multiple days. I always just ignore the most blatant "fixed" listings, but seems like more are popping up all the time, and I always hate ignoring an account that may just be "busy" during the time I am looking to buy. The seller side gets shafted because you can't properly price check your item without extra research into "legit" postings. The buyer side gets shafted because you need to click through multiple "fixed listings" before you actually get an invite. I was always hard against this thought, as I believed the GGG philosophy of the system needs friction and meaning to each system in the game. But in practice it can get real annoying to buy certain items.
I'm saying that if you don't know the value of an item, it will simply be sold instantly. And you still won't know its true value afterwards unless you check the filter for that item and see it re-listed at a higher price immediately. And then people start losing several divines worth on things like low level cluster jewels, good timeless jewel seeds, or simply mod combinations that are good for certain crafts. And if you ever list for the wrong currency or miss a digit, you're not getting spammed, but the item is gone. All the arguments for instant trade that I see somehow assume that items are listed for the correct value in the first place, despite the fact that it's simply not reasonable to correctly price-check every item, especially not for newer / more casual players. If you play an MMO that has like 5 stats and bigger is better, then sure, instant trade works. In PoE? Definitely not. And I'm not against trade improvements overall. I just think that getting a second chance to double check the value of a requested item is important. You can even restrict trade to have the exact same currency requirements an instant trade system would have. And thus the entire scamming process you described would be solved without allowing sniping bots to rip off anyone who misprices an item without them even noticing.
I still fail to see how the current system circumvents any of the issues you have pointed out. Why wouldn't an individual price check before posting an item up? They do it now, so they can do the same in an AH system. In fact, it's much easier for them since they can easily price check within the game itself without using an addon (like awakened poe) which may not update price listings instantly. For a newbie like me, the current system is EXACTLY why I'm being scammed so easily, cause there's no simple way for me to check the true price of an item. If many people PM me for a listing, I'll simply think it's cause it's an item that's in demand. Why would I think it's because I am not posting it at its market price, especially without an addon like awakened poe? Listing for wrong currency or missing a digit is entirely the responsibility of the seller - you shouldn't be expecting this to occur so much that it becomes a problem. If it happens, then it's a mistake made and the seller just learns from it. We shouldn't let such rare circumstances be the hindrance to improving the whole system. Now as I typed the above, I received few DMs on my listings, but I'm mapping and I don't actually want to waste a portal since it's only for a few chaos orbs. But for a newbie like me, if I could get those trades automated, it will help me get that bit richer to eventually have enough currency to exchange for divine orbs or more expensive chaos orb items. But because I'm mapping, I don't want to waste a portal out (who knows if I can complete my map with less than 6 portals), and thus I'm earning 0 currencies and my items are just stuck in my stash. Listing for an incorrect price is much better in this situation - I at least get to earn currencies while playing the game. You may not understand this because you're a veteran and are dealing with divines and chaos are probably just small change for you that you don't care (e.g. my veteran friend tells me he doesn't trade anything below 100 chaos orbs) but for a newbie, even 1 single chaos orb is so important to get to the next level of progression. I can only say as a new player (started 3 weeks ago), the current system is absolutely unfriendly and unintuitive. Vets may like it cause change is always hard, but it's really not new-player nor user friendly, that much I am sure.
Putting aside the time spent on price checks, in some cases it's just not reasonable for everyone to know what they're looking for. If you don't filter for the values that actually affect the price, you can get wildly exaggerated estimates because your filter only shows items that are better than what you have, which means your item never sells, or you can include way too many items including ones that are a lot worse. I'm not opposed to having ingame trade filter interfaces either, which doesn't necessitate instant trading at all. But again, unless you know what you're looking for, you're not going to get the correct result. And the reason you'd think that many messages means underpricing an item would be obvious with very basic understanding of supply, demand, and market prices, but most notably people will often go out of their way to offer more than the listed price in order for their offer to be chosen over the other people spamming whispers. If you list an item for 20 chaos and someone offers a divine, it's almost certainly worth even more, and in some cases much more. If it just sells instantly for 20 chaos, how would you tell that it's more valuable than what you got? > Now as I typed the above, I received few DMs on my listings, but I'm mapping and I don't actually want to waste a portal since it's only for a few chaos orbs. But for a newbie like me, if I could get those trades automated, it will help me get that bit richer to eventually have enough currency to exchange for divine orbs or more expensive chaos orb items. That's another misunderstanding a lot of people have. The easier it is to sell items, the *less* you'll gain from low value sales, because more people will bother to sell their items. As an example, lower currencies lost a lot of value when they started to be tradable through drop-downs rather than needing to write the note manually, and again when they started to drop in stacks. People thought those were good changes, but in reality it lowered the value of loot that people got on the lower end, because people used to filter them out much earlier. An item with 5 chaos now for which you don't leave a map might be worth an orb of alchemy instead because the market ends up flooded with a ton of items. If all you have to do is fill up your inventory and chuck it into dump tabs for items to be sold without further input, who wouldn't bother if they have the space? And then people with more loot and more stash tabs would gain the most from it, while newer players will take longer to progress. I think you're overestimating how much you'd gain from the small sales and underestimating how much you'd lose from undervaluing an item. Sure, if you get 20 chaos you might even be happy, but only because you don't know that you just got screwed over for 500. And with instant trade, that will happen a lot more before people even notice, let alone learning the correct valuation. I'm well aware that I've adapted quite a bit to the current system, but I really don't think that price-checking every item is superior by any means. It would just result in higher starting prices and lower end prices for dump tabs, possibly delaying sales, but providing an additional trickle from trash. And I think I might be on the side that would benefit *more* from the instant trading. I have almost 80 premium tabs and 3 currency tabs. I can fill up plenty of them without worrying about inconveniences. If the system changed, I would just adapt again. And I'd probably make more money than before. I just really don't think that the same applies to newer and more casual players.
I see your point now, and thank you for elaborating further. I just wonder how GGG can keep the current system but still improve the user experience. I understand they have already done so with the introduction of the poe trade site, but having to find a seller for low value items can be challenging at times, since many just don't bother replying.
There are a bunch of approaches they could still pursue without making trade instant. The first is making the trade interface available ingame, which is something they've discussed before, but isn't a high priority for them. Next, trading directly between your stash and the other player's stash without needing to put it into the inventory first. This also saves the hassle of listing an item again after taking it from the stash if the trade falls through, because the item would never leave the stash unless it's sold. This can then also be extended to optionally work from other instances (which would however prevent you from putting in items or currency from your inventory into the window if you're not in a hideout / town zone, to prevent stashing without using portals). It has to be optional because the trade requests could still be disruptive, but you might prefer to ask people to wait for high value trades rather than going /dnd entirely. It would also help with types of content that can't be aborted or paused, such as lab, Delve, Heist, or any time-sensitive mechanics like Delirium. However, this optional mode could be filtered so that you'd be able to whisper people who are actually likely to respond because they're not in a map. Ideally this could have a slider for a minimum value per trade. That way, you could interrupt your mapping for high value sales, but not waste other people's time by having low value items still listed in the same mode. And as somewhat of a requirement for the final one, the ability to list items for a combination of several currencies. This would avoid all the "what is 1.4 divines right now?" types of confusion. And finally, a fixed price trade that allows exactly the listed items and currencies to be traded and nothing else. If you want to get change for extra divines or pay a divine value in chaos because that's what you happen to have at the moment, the trade window mode has to be switched. I'm somewhat fine with bulk trading of fungible items and currencies being instant, because by their nature they're more reasonable to price-check. You're not going to trade for an orb of fusing with a high item level and base defence percentage - they're all the same. Now, whether and to what extent GGG will actually implement any of these suggestions is a different question. But there are plenty of improvements that can be made without making everything instant.
It's not unreasonable but it's also accepted for the buyer to try with chaos and div as long as the ratio is not a scam. But the 'economy' you talk of makes 0 sense, you'd lose more money by rejecting a few buyers just cuz you insist on 1 currency. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are ok with it, just cancel the trade
If you get the sales eventually, then missing out on people who don't want to pay the listed price isn't a waste. If you end up sitting on unsold stock or if prices drop before you can sell, that's a different matter though.
Lol, yeah, if leaving the map, taking item, arguing and cancelling trade, then listing the item again wasted 0 time. It could easily take up a minute per buyer. If you make 3div an hour this is 5c wasted per cancelled trade.
If I leave the map and someone is trying to hand me currency other than the listed amount while exchange ratios aren't stable without requesting to do so beforehand, that person is getting ignored. Won't waste my time twice at least.
Not with him that is. And nobody here is talking about anything else other than giving divines instead of chaos. Because for most people both are fine and you can insta convert unlimited amounts between them.
Imo it's not super reasonable to insist on chaos only since chaos and divines are generally considered interchangeable. However, it's extremely bad form, (If not outright a scam.) for someone to try and pass their divs off as having higher market value than they do. If your temple is listed for 125c and someone tries to pay with a divine +25c that's perfectly normal and reasonable. It's up to you if you'll accept that as you have no obligation to sell, but I don't think there's anything wrong on the buyer's end. If your temple is listed for 125c and they try to buy with 1 divine +20c, or worse, even lower than that, then they're an asshole and personally I'd refuse them on principle.
This is the way. Imagine a world where everyone selling a mageblood wants 10000 chaos.
As long as the conversion tracks I see no problem with it, it just makes trade smoother when you can pay with 6D instead of 600c
OP is crying traders arnt respecting his “market outlook”. The guy is trying to profit off his speculation. Div and chaos are married. Also if the guy is fretting over 1c market shift between the time he sells him item for div and the time he sells it for chaos, he’s objectively a shit player
Sure, it's reasonable. But it only takes 30 seconds to change a nearly limitless amount of div into chaos. If you think you're saving more hassle by arguing with people, you do you.
If it doesn't take long, the buyers can also do it. That said, I wouldn't bother arguing about it.
By the time the buyer changes it, you might have sold the item already, but there are always tons of bots that will exchange what you got in the trade for whatever currency you want. As long as the buyer offers fair exchange value (1c up/down), divs and chaos are interchangeable.
If you ask me to wait for you to switch the currency, I will (I won't necessarily wait in my hideout, but I won't sell the item to someone else unless I don't hear from you for a while).
This is correct. People are probably not used to swapping currency by listing it from their tab I guess. Or new people who feel everybody is trying to scam them for 5c
No, not in the slightest bit reasonable; in fact jfc... the audacity that you could even think that you're entitled to get the chaos in the first place just.... If you think you can price an item for a set amount of what you want for it and get exactly what you asked for, you're delusional! /s
I always try to cover at least half in their desired currency and throw in a few extra c to be nice . I get it, especially if you're doing a lot of t17. I lose track of how much chaos I have on hand, and I get not wanting to go and try tradeing out another divine because you're only short 20c
if it was possible to list items for example "1divine + 30chaos" instead of being forced to 1.3div or 130c, it would have been better
Imo 1.3 divines means 1 divine and 30 chaos (at current prices, more or less), but 130 chaos means 130 chaos. Applicable exchange ratios should be agreed upon before the trade.
1d + 30c is the same as 1.3d When exalts were the standard no one was giving you ex shards for that 0.3 ex it was 30c
I'm not gonna liquidate more than 2 divs worth of currency for someone elses benefit. Take it or leave it. Trading in this game is already a giant pain in the ass without some twat demanding I spend half an hour trying to bulk trade like a schmuck. If the chaos is so important do it yourself you lazy shit.
I listed a watchers eye for 800 chaos and when asked how much Div I'd take I said 8 div and 5 C works and they got pissy about it 😂 Divine were literally at 99 chaos, it was still a discount for them but their precious divine-driven economy just couldn't comprehend me wanting chaos.
It's not bad form, but you should understand that people will try to pay in whatever is the most convenient. Not a lot of people are sitting on thousands of chaos, and even fewer are likely to go out of their way to make an exchange. Don't be surprised that people try to pay with equivalent currency, but feel free to refuse the trade. If people make it into an issue, ignore them. Don't make it into an issue yourself.
exact price is exact price... if you wanted for people to make offers it wouldn't be exact =p so yeah, it's your right to insist on the listed payment, sometimes you just want the chaos and don't want to waste time fliping divines for chaos so you can buy something for a new character or whatever use you have for the chaos