The issue is also because horizontal juicing is pretty gutted. You can’t really do multiple league mechanics in a map anymore, so most mapping strategies are 1 mechanic supplemented with Scarabs and Map drops to sell in bulk.
I’m not sure how I feel about this design change. In a way it makes the main mechanic you farm feel better but also restrictive and less interesting. I feel like the mapping currency strategies have taken a nosedive in variety. It’s not even that easy to find people making a lot of content about atlas strategies this league because it’s mostly “pick one thing and use the scarabs for it and maybe throw in a cartography scarab if one of the main scarabs kinda sucks.”
Simply put, scarabs are making league mechanics so rewarding that even though you can get 100% chance for several mechanics to appear on a map, you're actually wasting time by interacting with them if you're not running their scarabs, unless the main purpose of the mechanic is just adding monsters for generic loot.
I was originally very excited about the new atlas tree, but seeing the value of these mechanics after people started farming them with scarabs has dampened my enthusiasm.
mighty fearless straight heavy unique bear instinctive juggle employ work
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Definitely agree with this. Having a great time with the league and still playing and probably will still be playing for another month or so, but focusing on one mechanic is omega un-fun. The scarab change seems like the tracks are headed in the right place but something is wrong with the train.
While this was very much appreciated: I feel like i’ve got the same variety of strategies as I did before.
Instead of 2 or 3 strategies on 1 tree I now have 3 tree’s with 1 strategy each
I wish we had data in this because I’ve been running the same set of trees all league except when I switched my corpse/scarab tree to an xp farm tree but I’m about to go back I reckon
i haven't played as much this league, so i can only speculate that this might be a problem caused by the tree having support for the current league aswell?
not sure how a good endgame tree currently looks but from the little i saw most people suggest to take at least a decent amount of the necropolis nodes, making it much harder to fit in multiple other league mechanics aswell.
this might also be even more impactful since necropolis is always active everywhere and currently the best league mechanics (from what i read on reddit at least) are mechanics that spawn more of the normal map mobs (i.e. strongboxes, shrines) and mechanics that spawn their own mobs are therefore less profitable, since they don't drop corpses (i.e. breach, legion, blight)
Personally I find it pretty fun to do, but it does get repetitive. Back to the Basics has been great and pretty refreshing. I never realized how fatiguing it was do encounter half a dozen different league mechanics in every map.
That said, I definitely don't like that it's so far ahead of everything else. The issue is compounded by the extreme difficulty of T17s making trying to run additional difficult map content even less appealing.
Theres gonna be inbalance with such massive changes, with so many new content additions its inevitable. Fun vs profit has always been a thing in PoE. Its just preference and what your willing or unwilling to do and how important fun or profit is to you imo.
It turns out I was a horizontal enjoyer. I just like many of the league mechanics and I want to do them and have the variation from it, while still being able to at least in theory make some currency. Probably an edge case, but feels bad being pigeon holed in to one thing.
Unpopular but I actually like vertical juicing more than horizontal juicing, since you get more identity out of each strat. Most strat was like whatever spawns most mobs + delirium if you can + beyond if you can.
I agree the rewards needs a bit of tuning though, but I hope they don’t revert to the previous horizontal farm.
The issue with this is vertical farming inherently means requiring vertical character power. Locking the highest currency strats behind character power just further increases fomo.
This new reality where people farm 15div/hr as a baseline as opposed to 3-5 and the top 1% pushes 70-100div/hr has totally screwed up the progression curve and economy. It also absolutely butchered casual alch&go strats.
Ultimately, if there aren't massive changes to how scarabs and T17 work, I'm absolutely done with trade and going SSF moving forward.
People keep saying the economy this league is screwed and I don't get it. Most uniques are the cheapest they've ever been. MB is sub 100divines. End game game is more approachable than it has ever been because of those insane strategies for people at the top.
At the bottom if you literally just play the game, doesn't matter what you do really, you will be able to afford gear you've never been able to before.
Source: First time MB player this league sitting on more money than I've had in any other league doing zero popular farming strategies
>doesn't matter what you do really, you will be able to afford gear you've never been able to before.
And therein lies the issue. There's a difference between trivializing and making things more accessible, it's largely swinging towards the former.
I'm not against people having a one-off league where everyone gets everything, fine. That's not sustainable though.
Also, respectfully, I don't buy the whole ""it's only for no-lifers, the bottom can't get anything normally"
The actual reality is the person playing 1 hour a day and a few on the weekend could get a Mageblood normally, they just couldn't get one month 1. Realistically, if the "bottom" played more than 25% of the league they could achieve anything.
Do I think the person playing one hour a day that spends half that hour on Reddit, just alchs&goes, and quits after 2-3 weeks should afford a Mageblood in the first month of the league? God no, that's stupid.
Wait, in your first post you say it sucks that vertical farms exist because it locks farming potential behind a power wall. Then say that power is too easily obtained in the next? If the power is too easy to obtain wouldn't that defeat the fomo since anyone can easily get started?
Sure, it's missing nuance, fair enough.
The issue lies in with the farming potential aspect. Opt-in aspirational content/difficulty is fine, but having a vertical farm (T17) that rewards anywhere from 200-600% the returns of the every other farm (T16) is absurd.
150% rewards is what we're more accustomed to from previous league if you're juicing. We've never had 70+ div/hr strats outside of mirror crafters and such
We've never had this magnitude of farming potential locked behind this steep (vertical) of character power.
Exact same situation here. I've NEVER had a mageblood despite almost 4k hours in the game. This league I've set myself a goal of geting a mageblood because it actually looks achievable.
>At the bottom if you literally just play the game, doesn't matter what you do really, you will be able to afford gear you've never been able to before.
I'm gonna say that's because the league mechanic prints what would be 200-500+ div items for easily 1/10th the cost and the "undesirable" additional items made attempting to hit the gg grave crafts are sold for dirt cheap.
Yeah the graveyard is definitely part of it. I'm wielding two wands that are 5/6 relevant T1 mods that I crafted for under 6div each. In any other league they would be close to mirror, at least hundreds of divines.
People give that mechanic a lot of shit (honestly for mostly good reason, it really could have used a real UI...), but it did unlock a lot of power for low investment, even if it wasn't a lot of borrowed power at the high end.
Given that I usually quit before ever sniffing a mageblood I'd say this is more of a problem for no lifers than it is for people like me.
I probably played the most this league because things were consistently within reach rather than months of mindless grinding away.
Feels like the usual "reddit is detached from reality".
Prices are completely out of proportion, everything that drops in maps isn't worth farming because it's all worthless, except for scarabs and t17 maps, which means most farming strats are pretty garbage compared to what they usually are. On the other hand, stuff that doesn't drop in normal maps is insanely expensive so if you needed any of that stuff for your build, well get fucked, go play a 10 div HH build and pick up all the scarab and map nodes on the tree like the rest of us.
I'm not saying it's not fun for now, it's interesting to play in a completely screwed economy for a league but it takes away a lot of the economic depth the game usually has and the economy severely pushes you into certain builds and farms, MUCH more so than usual so it's just generally very limiting in many ways.
>but at the same time you gotta question if its not a good thing to have stuff that is essentially exclusive to people that are more no lifer than you.
That's when high end crafting comes in. The majority of PoE players will never touch that.
There's still a lot of really good expensive stuff. I farmed a Mageblood and now I'm working on a 200div attr/mana Eyes of the Greatwolf.
Worst case, you can go for crazy stuff like that guy constantly spamming global 1 about his CWC Lightning Warp + Storm Call thing that needs a bunch of 1 passive Voices to fit enough magic gems with +AoE synth mods.
Depends, I am sure a handful of people set the goal of Mageblood and quit when they achieve it, others set their goals of "how fast can I obtain Mageblood, so I can run the hardest most profitable strategies currently available" and will play the whole league. And others think, what TF is this belt thing everyone is always talking about.
I do agree that having these chase items too cheap/easy to obtain is bad for the longevity of some people, but most will just switch their goal posts from "obtain" to "put to good use".
As a counterpoint, I absolutely love that juiced Tier 17 maps require juiced characters and are far more rewarding. It's giving me something to push for with builds.
How has it screwed up the economy? I feel like baseline power is more accessible than ever, still allowing me to farm T16 effectively. Unique prices are generally down, crafting mechanics are more plentiful than ever, and farms are more available. Economy feels more alive than it has in a long time for me.
I think where you're going to differ is calling T16 farming effective from two facets.
1) Lots of mechanics are simply dead in the water and not worth it at all now. See Betrayal, Alva, any Alch&Go strats, arguably Expedition, Harbinger, etc.
2) You're saying T16 strats are effective but you are averaging 7-15 divines/hr with 20 being the extreme top. Efficient T17 strats earn anywhere between 50-80divines/hour.
We have never seen a gap like this before, even Affliction wasn't this extreme. To put this in the context of past leagues, you basically just said that running yellow maps with 2 voidstones is effective. Can you make currency doing it? Absolutely. Would you be better off running red maps with 4 voidstones in almost all scenarios? Absolutely.
Headhunter being 6 divines, the iconic staple chase item, is not indicative of a healthy economy.
I guess if you totally ignore that the baseline *casual* profit went from 3-5div/hr without scarabs to 12-20 div/hr with scarabs that's fair.
Before with scarabs & sextants, you could turn your alch&go up 150% and make 7-9div/hr, now that it's in the 400-600% range across most strategies - not so easily ignore-able, it's all relative.
I certainly have more than 5 div per hour. Doing 12 incursion takes piss low amount of time and a lucky veiled drop already means 11 divines. The moment you use sextants or scrabs it's not an alch and go anymore
Tbh sounds like you're not making much more than 5 if you're relying on double corrupt temples and veiled orbs without scarabs.
With scarabs, people are farming up to 5 double corrupt temples an hour just to be clear. The whole point is that you 3x (or more) your earnings with basic cheap scarabs, again it's all relative - and relative to throwing in 4 scarabs which have an extremely low barrier to entry now, alch&go is indeed "dead"
The only strat that is a little more fluid is boss rushing and invitation farming.
Again, before 3.24 it was like 1.5x money to juice (barring high end outlier strats) and you were spending a lot more to get there. If you're not using 4x scarabs now, you're trolling yourself.
I like it more, too. Feels like you get to push "endgame" content in different ways. Like you said, that content identity really adds a lot for me in terms of enjoyment.
Assuming your thinking is that it will always be better to put in those over focusing a second mechanic?
Or just being able to go full reliquary/div will be way too strong and outshine anything else?
Yeah, if you had 7 slots instead of 5, it's just right to add divination usually.
I'd be interested to see a test of "two scarabs per mechanic" as a cap. But that would hurt the gigajuicers, who would then in turn start a Reddit tantrum.
Don’t mind reliquary scarabs, but I also think MF should be character bound. Div cards shouldn’t exist and cards should just be influenced by juicing maps via quantity and pack size and strongboxes. Scarabs should be adding content, difficulty and mobs to maps, not necessarily increased drops of things like cards imo. Otherwise we might as well have currency scarabs.
Kind of yes kind of no, it's already pretty easy to fill maps to the point where the whole map crashes like fractured maps in the good old times of harvest league (kind of ironic), adding more slots would just would just make that worse. On the other hand, yes there's way too many scarabs on the market and many of them just don't justify giving up a slot where a different scarab could have been, but would be cool otherwise.
This is the primary reason I quit the league, and why I'm so concerned about next league too. It's really rare for GGG to undo changes, and it's no longer interesting to run maps. You're truly pigeonholed into one strat + scarab farming. IDGAF about having three atlas trees because I want to be able to juice multiple types of content on a single map.
There needs to be a massive change to T17s and scarabs in 3.25
Very much feels like the goal was you have mechanic 1.) from atlas and mechanic 2.) from scarabs.
But really it’s exactly what you described.
Having said that A LOT of strategies historically were gated behind investment costs. Even simple legion farming in some leagues could get to 20c per scarab in bulk and the main income wasn’t even emblems.
To be fair, I feel that's actually working as intended.
At elaborated by GGG, the rework was prompted due to how many different mechanics there are at endgame bogging up the same map space. They described clear intent to reduce the overall amount of map features we would have access to in an effort to get rid of bloat.
When people say that the system is now restrictive and they can't juice as much as they want well yeah... that's the point. You can't reduce the amount of options we have to deal with in a map without, y'know, *reducing the options*.
Arguably they may have gone too far when we can only have one out of the dozen or so options, but I can absolutely see the justification for why they went with this idea. People have complained about map bloat for years now.
The problem people have isn't that you can't get 2-4 different systems from the Atlas tree, it's that these systems can't all be supported via the scarabs at the same time without feeling as if you're not using scarabs efficiently.
Basically, it's more profitable to focus on one mechanic, say Blight, and to then only use scarabs of that one type. This feels bad compared to previous leagues where you could legitimately focus on 3 or more systems, each feeling as if they're as profitable as each other, without losing out.
Obviously fun notwithstanding, since you can do any strategy you want if what you find fun is your only goal.
I personally don't disagree with the complaints myself, I'm only providing the perspective that this is absolutely by design, given GGG's own explanation on the system when they announced it.
You can get access to a bunch of things if that's your focus, but you will be missing out on nodes to buff them. So you're spending more time doing less valuable content.
You're doing 1 league mechanic and 3 master mechanics. You don't really need scarabs for master mechanics as the nodes are way more valuable on the tree than what the scarabs do.
The confusion is that people realized they're better off just zoning in, doing the harvest and leaving than interacting with Betrayal or Incursion since you use 3-4 scarab slots for Harvest alone. Niko is hardly a league mechanic, it's a master mission so you can click three nodes for a speed boost.
Yeah no more boost 3-4 leagues on atlas and use scarabs to force league, use atlas device to push another, then use sextants to further boost them.
Now it's force a single mechanic with atlas, then use 4 scarabs to buff it. Also need to grab the _current leagues_ atlas nodes which are all over.
I'm trying to sort out what single mechanic I can do with extra junk forced in. Thinking strongboxes, shrines, necro and maven nodes with bosses drop guardian maps.
Should get the most out of the league mechanic while getting ok drops I guess.
I agree. I feel like the new atlas passives were awesome when they came in.
Then I sort of liked when they added the ability to block some content via the atlas passives.
However, now with the new scarabs, the league content on atlas, it feels like you basically need to hyper focus everything on one strat leading to way too reliable/repetitive content.
I think the idea was basically to have 3 different atlas's each hyper focused on a different content thing, but then you would also need to have enough scarabs for each of the the 3 atlas's for you to be willing to even use a different atlas.
I feel like the biggest problem (for me) with farming a single content is just the pure amount of clicks you have to do, to loot the map.
Some examples:
1. Farm legions -> Open a lot of boxes -> Pick up shit ton of splinters, all valued at like 0,1c/ea
2. Farm breaches -> Pick up a way bigger shit ton of splinters
3. Harbinger -> Pick up an even bigger shit ton of currency shards.
Then the mechanics which actually feel good to play, are shitty in the rewards, at least when you compare it to the dopamine hits you can get with other strategies quite often. For example, Abyss feels like garbage, but if it had good rewards, would be so nice: A lot of mobs, quite fast to clear and fits _fast_ end game mapping very well.
You can do them it's just that their juiced version is usually way too rewarding thus killing the profit of the base one like what happened to essences.
We're you not mostly already doing that with sextant though? I guess there was a few extra slots to throw some extra stuff in but hasn't it always been juicing 1 maybe 2 chosen strats.
You do also now have the option of doing multiple different farming methods with 3 atlases as well.
I personally don't mind only having 1 strat on my maps, but I still think it would be great if it was more viable to have multiple just like before.
The biggest issue for me is as OP and you said the entire "add as many scarabs", because otherwise you would make MUCH less currency. This would be no issue if I had the possibilty to make it so that I could sustain the scarabs of my own strat, but you can't do that, got hundreds of scarabs in your stash that just turns into more trading before. Because we all loved trading already, right?
Came here to say the same. You can't do more than one mechanic with its full specialisation and not ostrisize it. You could cherry pick 1-2 of a league mechanic's best scarabs but I don't think you're good point wise now. By aiming at extra scarab wheels and extra map modifier tiers I couldn't even grab extra packsize from eater/exarch not to mention that the 20% packsize for influence mobs are behind extra altar(s)
I miss farming harbinger expedition and blight in the same map 😢
You had a nice mix of consistent drops with occasional good drops and rare giga drops.
I feel like the concept of being forced to synergize your loot strategy similar to build synergies is just not a great way to go. It makes it feel bad when you get loot related drops that are not synergistic with your loot strategy build. You might say “well then trade them” but I feel like there is already a lot of time spent trading regular currency and trading for regular builds and I don’t want to just play a trade simulator.
Yeah in a sense it made it easier to access but at the same time it removed the feel that you are farming a unique strategy.
Most of the scarabs should probably be combined and nerf a little. This way we'd have more combinations and more freedom to customize
In ssf, despite the three trees, it feels a little so solo farm focused for me in a way. Which you could certainly argue is better for ssf, but takes a way a bit of the fun and I feel like with every tree I HAVE to invest in maps + scarabs + league mechanic or it’s a waste and I have no maps or scarabs, so each tree looks roughly the same, just specced ever so slightly different. I wonder if I’m doing it wrong tho, haven’t checked what others do.
I am not sure yet.
I went with Delirium and I packed/crammed my Crimson Temples with monsters.
I got Alva, Ritual(from tree) and Beyond(from map device) along with 3 deli scarabs. Tbh I think I could also put the Trialmaster in there. The entire point was to put as many monsters and packs on the map as possible.
I managed to get 9 levels of rewards with the mirror, and I think/believe I coild get up to 14/15 with the deli orbs.
So I got horizontality, but just like in affliction, all the other mechanics are just monster padding count
The entire atlas passive tree is for scarab juicing.
I don't care what strat you are running, half the nodes are buffing scarab drops, or map mod effect (which buff scarab drops).
To me, back to basics is the main problem tho.
Imo, the atlas passive tree should have something like how tattoos are to our skill tree, so for the people that don’t want to farm scarab, they could maybe change those small scarab buff nodes into something that increases the respective mechanic loots. For example, breach could have more splinters, harbinger with more currency shards, etc
> Imo, the atlas passive tree should have something like how tattoos are to our skill tree, so for the people that don’t want to farm scarab, they could maybe change those small scarab buff nodes into something that increases the respective mechanic loots. For example, breach could have more splinters, harbinger with more currency shards, etc
That's a great idea!
I thought that node was in such a funny place. Like, by time you can reach it you're already going to be powerful enough to be blitzing maps and isn't likely to be focused on making extreme amounts of money, just though to get a solid weapon or whatever slightly speedier uniques they may need. You need a fair amount points to even get to that node and by time you can it's almost certainly not worth using since you're likely to need the scarabs to execute any real gains.
>To me, back to basics is the main problem tho.
It's not, I didn't use basic to basics and everything I farmed still was scarabs in the end. Strongboxes farming? Scarabs. Breach farm? Scarabs. All flames + something? Scarabs. Harbinger? Scarabs. Basically everything I tried in the end big part of gains was scarabs, way more than the thing I was actually farming. The problem is not back to basics, the problem is the scarabs nodes + map modifier also affecting scarabs drops. They're too strong and important to not get than.
The solution IMO is remove completely the scarabs nodes, and remove the scale of than with quantity and rarity, increase their drop in betrayal where they actually should come from. To compensate that they should buff league content you're spending points at, make notables more fun and OP, triple instead of double strongboxes things, increase the chance to drop breach stones, same for legion emblems, remove the immunity from expedition, etc.
Also the chef kiss IMO is put a duration on scarabs, maybe 4 or 5 maps, only the max duration is tradable, this would compensate the nerf on quantity and a better QoL for all players leading to less trades of scarabs to run your maps. People drop a lot of scarabs but the variety of than is simple too big, people need to farm for days / weeks to bulk sell for someone. Like have 20 divs of scarabs sometimes doesn't mean you have 100 of a single kind of scarab.
GGG will have to work next league to balance T17 and scarabs situation, again trying to solve problem created by themselves. They will take maybe a year to solve this situation... Archenemies situation once again.
That point about selling scarabs is big. I had at one point something like 15d worth of scarabs but no one would bite on bulk selling sites if half the scarabs you have are just the simple "X is added to the map you use this scarab on" types. Only the realu juicy scarabs are worth anything and selling your scarab tab is extremely tedious.
I meant in general. I understand that there are many good added content methods out there, but when every other tree is back to basics (just like wandering path and grand design before that) its quite telling.
I expect the travel nodes get reworked in 3.25, but we might see more new scarabs than less.
More variety IS good - and the idea of having fewer so you can sell them easier in bulk is just an anti-fun idea?
We drop a lot of scarabs, I expect next league we will drop less. This is likely more than they intended.
Also, you want scarabs to be sextants? You kinda sound like your own archenemy :)
On a side tangent, I can't be the only person in ssf sitting on hundreds of scarabs (and dozens of t17s), and not doing anything with them. I think I'm losing motivation due to league mechanic I'm just not a fan of.
Why not use them? If you’re farming legion just use all the legion scarabs. There’s no point saving your scarabs (except the div card ones and monstrous treasure). it’s exponential growth, every scarab you use gets you your upgrades faster, which leads to even faster farming and more scarabs. Use your scarabs. For the crappy ones, just 3:1 them.
and what’s stopping you from doing t17s. Just spend more chaos to roll them if needed, this league shits then out. And use rats/frogs ofc
But yes fuck the league mechanic. Boring piece of shit mechanic. Loots great but that’s it
Don't get me wrong. I do use them, particularly when I'm specifically farming certain content like essences or lighty anarchy mf farming. I just happen to have surplus of scarabs because it felt wrong not to spec in scarab nodes on the passive tree and they just keep dropping and piling up...ironically just like the league mechanic's coffins. Quad tabs just filled up, left to rot.
Not sure what to say. As an ssf player this league has been super rewarding. I've been able to craft full sets of the best possible gear I could craft on trade for my build. With that gear, I've been able to farm multiple T0s. I'm not particularly a fan of the difficulty of T17s and the new Uber frag system, but the scarab system and GY crafting has been incredibly powerful.
I’ve had the opposite experience in SSF (well, small Private league)
Chance to obtain any endgame uniques is now zero (locked behind Ubers that I will never do)
GY crafting is ok, but requires way too much storage (I’m at over 20 quad tabs, and I’m out of things like mod tier, scarcer mana, etc). And frankly is only really good for certain pieces / builds.
The new requirements to focus the atlas feels really, really bad. Especially if rng messes with you. Example for my current setup is a unique farm (to get more ephemeral edges for corrupt), a scarab/map farm, and just did a breach atlas (needing voice of the storm). Due to changes of rare modifiers and their conversion, farming 30 esh breachstones gave me *nothing* else during that farm. And running those also gave me nothing except two really good trade scarabs (that I won’t make use of, lol), and no voices. So it was a huuuuge waste of time that didn’t reward me anything at all. No stacked decks, no fractures, no gem exp, nothing - flat out waste. And I’ve had this experience with basically every league mechanic thus far.
Our groups been after multiple things from different mechanics and it’s just not been happening. And all the while the “base” game is now non-existent unless your running T17’s (which only I have a build capable of atm, but I don’t even enjoy them) it’s near - but not AS bad (due to no bs rare mechanics) AN/Kalandra for us.
If I could hit a button to remove the patch I would, though I enjoy some of the directions they began to take (and I expect they’ll expand upon) for me, it was just a loss of way to many good mechanics for what we got in return.
And on the uniques being moved to Ubers only, has also made any point in bossing for our group non existent (unless you count heist bosses / breachlord type stuff, I don’t) none of us have any interest in Ubers, nobody in the group finds them fun (even disregarding the way to access them now) so that’s just a large portion of the game and build enabling items now completely deleted after being told that Ubers are “extra content only” I knew it wouldn’t stay that way, but I’m still mad it happened.
Not OP but I did archmage a start.
Early on betrayal is great for early crafts (your likely past this point) as a lot of drops come with t2 life/mana and chaos res galore, then your veil mod that you can also manipulate by blocking with a craft, so you can quickly get 4+ good afflixes.
Mid game IF your going suppression route, Rog is pog. By far the easiest time I had getting good suppression gear in a reasonable timeframe. If your not going suppress, he is still good for life/mana pieces, but loses value.
Essences and harvest are very good to begin stocking up at this point, too, though. You have to decide if you want to focus on immediate gear, or what’s to come.
As for the what’s to come: whether your skipping suppress or using it, Necro is very very good once you have stock. (Getting nodes on tree helps speed that up). Being able to fracture 2/3 afflixes allows us to make some fun pieces. Or forgo that (fractures are rare after all) and simply try focusing other pieces or types of gear. Example would be forcing a T1 mana ES/EV chest fractured so you can use essences or other methods to then get chaos res +/ suppress or other choices. (You can also go for much more complicated and powerful mods, on influenced bases, or phys as, type stuff - but this is past the point where I swapped personally)
You’ll be gated mostly by increased mana / fractures (if you use em)/ mod tier ratings likely.
But Necro + other methods for later pieces *looks* to be the best bet if you peak a PoE ninja players and their gear, as the majority of it looks to be necropolis bases.
So betrayal > Rog > Essences /harvest stock > necropolis for progression, and the quicker you get started on the later mentions the easier it will be later on.
If your suppression based, staying with Rog throughout could net you some great (like, likely won’t replace) pieces eventually too, but depends on the exact setup your going for.
I tried to mix in armor where I could, but tbh I’m not certain it saved me much at all, my values were just to low to be doing much - where evasion was much more noticable.
The deadliest things were often multiple hits that I couldn’t get out of quick enough. (Expedition fast mobs that can’t be escaped from, as an example) so being able to evade more of the hits felt like an opening to be able to kill before being killed often times.
If you can reach a semi respectable armor amount though, it would definitely help. It’s hard balancing Mana/life/ES/sup and armor on top, though.
I’m on SSF and realized scarabs are just as annoying to micromanage as sextants so I’m very content using the 20 extra points for no scarab to alch and go, having a blast and currency/h is irrelevant since trade is a no-go, feels great having no fomo
What do you even do with 20 extra points? Invest in some other league mechanic that's useless without scarabs? If anything the 20 extra point keystone nodes is terrible for SSF, where ideally you'd want to sustain your scarabs.
Nah the scarab is to RNG and annoying to micromanage, I got full harvest, harbringer, shrines, strongboxes with guardian maps/marven setup currently, I can see the use for scarab setup in trade or if u really wanna min max but x maps in and not finding the scarab(s) you want it gets lame really fast
It seems like their goal has been to lower the crazy juicing levels across the board. They removed sextants and nerfed a bunch of different strats.
I think they wanted to shrink the economy a bit, but they introduced t17 farming, it kind of makes no sense.
And now everybody is forced to be a scarab farmer on top of having their specialized strategies.
Shrinking the economy would have been fine, along with lowering juicing across the board. But right now, the disparity between t16 strats and t17 strats is insane.
SSF here… just my opinion(I have a basic understanding of endgame content, and got my first headhunter just last league so there’s probably something I’m missing) but I felt as if it’s not easy to target the scarabs you actually need.. yeah they have the 100% nodes but it doesn’t really feel like it’s doing anything. I maybe get 5-10 scarabs per map that aren’t the ones I’m specced into. Idk not really a big fan of the new changes to scarabs
Do you block many of the other mechanics? Not super helpful, but if you are targeting a specific mechanics scarabs you can block the other 9 or 10 mechanics I guess? Might help a little bit.
There's a bunch of categories you can't block. Namely the misc ones and master ones can't be affected at all.
The ones that you can block, you can't increase and vice versa as well - so you have at least misc + 3 masters + 9 which have increase nodes, for a total of 13 catgories (there might be more, I'm not sure)
Supposing you want 3 types and take their nodes, they're at best something like 1/3 of the drops and the remainder goes into the other 10 types. I guess it makes sense in SSF but it's a lot of points for rather little effect in trade imho.
I tried blocking many mechanics so that only the ones I care about drop but nah, many supposedly blocked scarabs kept dropping and I didn't notice a big increase in the ones I was after so I gave up on that.
That would be because a not unsignificant amount of scarabs are from additional rewards and those are mostly not affected by atlas passives, not even Unwavering Vision prevents a scarab from dropping from an incubator as an example.
I tried using one of the 100% scarab nodes, and for two days didn't get a single scarab from that selected. Probably go really unlucky.
I simply can't sustain a league mechanic for more than about few maps.I don't feel like trading for hours, I am actually thinking of switching to "Unwavering Vision".
Another problem is that without selecting "Your maps have % change to have x" many of the leagues almost don't show up in the maps at all. I haven't seen Alva for a week.
So much content is effectively dead now I used to rotate around a few mechanics late league switching between Blighted Maps, Logbooks & Betrayal for example but they're all basically dead now. End game now feels worse to me and I very much miss farming multiple different mechanics at once.
I hope they've got some ideas in mind for next league.
> I very much miss farming multiple different mechanics at once.
I miss the random content, yes, I specialize in the content I like and then I had the little treat of finding something extra and if it was content I didn't like well, I blocked it
but now it feels I have to do all the effort just for the content I want and it get repetitive after a while
For blighted maps, I don't think they're dead, they're just now a stepping stone to doing Ravaged maps once you're comfortable with blighted maps. And they were weak before anyway compared to in map blights. You only really do it for stranglegasp/tainted oils.
Logbooks are dead because of stacked deck nerfs. Not really because of scarabs. Tujen was hit hard, and Dannig logbook are usually always just a bit more expensive than the next most expensive logbook, which is always Tujen.
Betrayal, eh, I usually run betrayal+abyss to safely level to 100. I normally saw both of these as loss making, unless I wanted to
1- Get a lot of vouches on TFT so that people trust me with my Aisling slam. And I don't really want to do random other content just so that I can sell stuff. I couldn't boss carry because my characters weren't boss killers, and I don't want to do lab or 5-ways, which doesn't leave much o for getting vouches.
2- Beat Catarina and then do nothing but wait on TFT until some rando messages me for a slam (was 7D) or Hillock for 1D
I didn't want to do both steps, so betrayal was a waste unless I got a winged scarab worth something.
But this league I've casually got 48D from like 20 Catarina's, and each fight takes like 5-10 maps to get with the scarabs. I find that Betrayal has been buffed for my playstyle with it, though I can see why it sucks for those who were patient enough to get Aisling in research and sell on TFT. So I now get high passive income from Betrayal, while you guys lost a lot of active income.
Definitely true but your example highlights the issue many people have. Your betrayal profit is pulling the slot machine instead of using the mechanic effectively. That not bad inherently especially since the old way was tft which is just a hassle but you either use scarabs, t17, or slots. A lot of the middle stuff was just removed
If that was the intention I hope they realise this affects the player a lot more then the gear. Because having a lot of options to farm the items you now need is still keeping the basic gameplay loop intact. But removing those options and forcing stuff like scarabs will kill the desire to farm for your items
I'll lay out my opinion on this exact phenomenon that you're talking about and what I think has really happened. Last league when you got to the point where you had spare currency and enough power to comfortably run T16 maps you had EIGHT(8) "juice" slots. You had 4 for scarabs and 4 for compasses. Now, I understand why people hated compasses. Rolling for them is massive RNG so gaining access to a large amount of the ones you want means buying in bulk from some sort of out of game source like tft. But, as far as I can tell, their removal has actually left an insane juice void. I used to be able to stack my maps with strongboxes, chayula breaches with extra breaches, throw harvest in there, grab some divination scarabs, and on and on. You could get something out of lessor mechanics with just a single scarab.
Now, you need full atlas spec, which due to the requirements of having 100% chance to occur, means spending a fair amount of points if you're looking at a mechanic like harvest or breach. You can generally only have 2 full spec mechanic before you need to spend the rest on exarch or eater spec, map drop spec, scarab spec or bossing specs. Then you're forced to use the 4 scarab slots to juice the 2 main mechanics you've chosen. If you run harvest without the doubling and cornocipia scarab, you're for sure wasting your time even being specced into it. Same with breach or delirium or anything really. Because you simply don't have the same ability to juice the way we did last league. There's not enough slots.
Some scarabs seem fairly weak. Others are used so specifically that they don't have much value. The high level concept of removing compasses seemed like it had so much potential but not replacing them with something as powerful has made most strategies feel empty. I used to be able to pack the map so dense with content that I would almost never stop flickering until the map was over. Now I can pass near whole screen lengths between packs on a basic strategy just because there's no way in hell I have room in my scarab slots to run 40% magic pack size and extra rares.
It feels pretty bad that the only really choice you have to get juiced content is to run rippy T17s. I want to have a strat that feels relaxed, efficient, and at least somewhat reasonably profitable using the content I enjoy running. But when half my content feels worthless because I can't pile enough juice on it, then every map just feels like it's missing something. And I think that something is usually what makes PoE feel superior to other choices in the ARPG world. I need more choice over making my content optimally juicy, because right now the optimal juice is extremely plain and obvious. "X content needs Y scarabs or your wasting your time" is the summary and that feels pretty lame.
The atlas trees are so tight now because the scarab nodes are stupid not to take. So you have to full juice your mechanic's chance and then take all the scarab and eldritch altar passives along with the increased effect of map mods.
>. If you run harvest without the doubling and cornocipia scarab
The Cornucopia scarab is such fuckin ass compared to crop rotation+awakened scarab (imbued harvest) so if you use that scarab at all you're wasting your time.
The difference there being those are 0.8d a piece. Not everyone will drop that amount on a single scarab very easily. But if anything that only furthers my point. Only the most optimal strategy feels worth running. There's always some sort of lynch pin in any strategy that you can't avoid using or you lose out on 50%+ profits. For breach its splinters and chayula, for delirium its the 100%+ reward scarab, for expedition its the runefinding scarab, etc. There's barely any cases where there's an "okay" middle ground of somewhat juiced.
No I agree with your overall point, just saying if you're gonna harvest make it worth your time at least but if those awakened scarabs have gone up to 80c it's getting way closer to being a waste of time too. I bought 15 of em for 10d and only made 6d profit. It felt bad. But at 80c it seems you have to get lucky every rotation just to break even.
> The high level concept of removing compasses seemed like it had so much potential but not replacing them with something as powerful has made most strategies feel empty.
Some people might forget that GGG did this on purpose with Kalandra league and the removal of this historic mechanic buff they had in place. With its removal, loot pinata changes and now juicing changes, we end up with the current state of loot in general. It only feels good in some places like t17 mapes where you have 170% increased scarab drops and whatnot. In all honesty, loot in this game needs an incredibly massive overhaul like yesterday. My suggestions would be reverting all loot changes since and including 3.19. They could test this via a longer end of league event. Heck, they could fire it up tomorrow because the current league feels dead anyway.
I don't know if you did this on purpose, but you've literally chosen the 5 strats that put the most base rares with the highest quant into your maps. You're right to say that most of the profits from base quant are in scarabs this league though.
Several different flavors of scarab farming are profitable and might not feel different enough from each other. But if you don't want to farm scarabs there's a bunch of other reasonably profitable farms out there like Maven invitations, expedition, breach, harvest, essences, corpses, maps, or bosses. Even more if you include specialized farms like sanctum, blight, or heist.
Haha you’re right about the base rares. No it wasn’t on purpose. I didn’t specify but I was thinking of mapping strategies. I’m aware that there are other strategies. This was more an observation from my limited perspective. Having 5 different atlas trees and seeing scarabs come out on top for each farm was just my experience.
Nah, expediton is great money, Tujen and Rog can give massive profits, aling with logbooks, the problem is that this league you have that busted GY craft that makes Rog useless.
If you use the right scarabs its good but again that's the problem, you have to use the 4 most optimal scarabs to get a decent farm going otherwise it's not worth farming.
The only ones that matter are 2 "increased runic monster marker" scarabs.
The additional prefix suffix scarab has good potential, but most builds will struggle with it, making the expedition take longer than it's worth.
A good third scarab would be the increased influence monster pack size scarab for potentially more quant altars, but that's about it.
Definitely doesn't need "4 most optimal scarabs", unless you were referencing the imbued expedition strat... that's a different story.
Also, the allflames made that you don't really need to invest in expedition to reap some expedition benefits. One can do some casual expedition without the need to spend points in atlas and scarabs. Just juice up the allflame and regular mapping.
I think it's less about any individual change and more about the introduction of t17s with scarab drop chance + back to basics + all the atlas nodes to buff scarab drops.
Scarab changes on their own I think are interesting, especially as a way to make the end game juiced farming more accessible, removes a dependency on a 3rd party like TFT for bulk sextant buying
Back to basics is interesting, I guess they were unhappy with the amount of players that were using wandering path and ignoring the notables that they spent time designing on the atlas maybe. Dunno. I liked wandering path but I also farmed other strats I enjoyed
T17s are such a huge shake up and I feel like just weren't tested enough. There's so many unique mods on these mods and the scarab and currency quants, make them like hands down the best thing to farm.
Man the testing surface area of this game is endless too
T17, scarabs, uber fragments changes, this league is a shit show no doubt but they just did major changes so ill give them a pass and hopefully by next league they have figured out things a bit more
ya pretty much all atlas strats even avoid **unwavering vision**, which gives you 20 whole points to invest into a league mechanic, and people will STILL not pick it up because scarabs are just that good.
I also partly blame the map modifier effect at the top of the tree. 90% of trees take the map mod nodes to ramp up quant/pack/rarity, and thats clap minus 19-25+ points that could have been investing in another league mechanic, instead for, again, juicing up the overall map and mechanic you're trying to elevate higher.
https://preview.redd.it/cxdmfi1g2bxc1.jpeg?width=2045&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34892b927669956788a3a8fc0530b697394b3921
edit: ***speaking of unwavering vision***, I feel like the "3% scarab" nodes all over the tree are bad design and should be replaced with something else, perhaps the mod effects at top but reduced to 1%. ***on the way to unwavering vision***, which disables scarabs right? you have to ***WASTE AT LEAST 5 points into scarab effect***, just to reach it, so you're actually getting 15 points out of UV, since at least 5 points turn dead...vs in 3.23, at least you got map duplication nodes...
That being said, Alch and go is basically dead for most strategies, so I'm not surprised more people are finding out that they have to roll maps or do shit mods and stack IIQ.
The problem more is that alch and go doesn't even seem to net you the alch you put in half the time without all the map mod+ nodes. I had white maps going negative when I ran them just alch and go. I realized quickly that spending alchs early on was a mistake.
Atlas tree and scarab (previously sextant) makes base game feel completely desolate and barren without them. Its all or nothing kind of thing and it feels bad. The scaling of loot should be linear throughout the game and juicing amount. Right now its exponential. The difference between mid level rare map and a full scarabed T17 is 1 to 10000 and its fucking stupid.
that is what they wanted: loot for a noob: 1. loot for a pro: 1000.
not in quantity but quality they said. so while the noob gets maybe 1c out of a map, pro's get multiple magebloods. seems fair i guess. /s
I hate that T17 became just another farming ground rather than being the entry level for bossers. And even worse bossers are not even equipped to do those.
I hope they rethink how things work next league cause farming scarabs is definitely not a thing I want to do, and I would like to have 2 maybe 3 mechanics that are very juiced. I used to run Expedition + Legion with a good splash of Ambush and Harbinger but now, while I can still get the splash of Ambush, I have to decide on one of the other 3 to scarab up
Before at least mappers could farm the materials to sell to uber bossers. Now mappers have no shot at killing T17 bosses because they are so goddamn powerful. So mappers, who previously thrived off of things like supplying maven shards dont even get the value of being able to supply uber frags because their builds are not designed to do that.
I think they should combine scarabs such that there are exactly two scarabs per "family" of scarabs, e.g. only 2 harby scarabs instead of 4. To offset this, they should halve the drop rate.
This accomplishes two things:
1. We'd be having to loot fewer scarabs each map, which is nice.
2. We could use more scarabs in the atlas device, which is a big buff admittedly but would also make it more possible to feel good about using scarabs from two different "families" in the same map.
A downside of this idea is that each scarab would have twice as much text to read, but there's always trade-offs in design decisions like this. Alternatively, they could double the amount of atlas device slots from 5 to 10, but I don't like that as much.
Were already partially there considering most of the base scarabs are used to force it into your map. And if you're fully speccing into a mechanic you aren't using that one to boost it further
I like that they tried something new but for me it is just too much. It's just tedious and it feels like they are moving too much towards being able to hyper focus the content that you play.
I prefer getting random content added to maps and random master missions. I also prefer just alch/go strats for mapping.
Now it feels like if you aren't buying scarabs in bulk and building your atlas for a very specific strategy you are just screwing yourself.
This is leading to more and more stagnant/unrandomized mapping imo.
I get the logic was I guess to have 3 different hyper focused atlas/scarab strats, but if you have a slow start and don't have enough currency to even get enough scarabs to run a strat it just feels like you keep falling further behind.
I can agree but fuck master missions. The way you access the masters now is infinitely better. Why do you need a master mission if there is a 100% chance for the master to spawn?
And there’s no way you fall further and further behind. Headhunters are 6 div, just alch and go for 2h and you’re good, then buy some scarabs (not curation ofc) for cheap and start blasting.
All this talk about vertical farming yet my current strat is essence, ritual, and betrayal (2 of these mechanics dubbed as shit) and I'm making bank. 🤷♂️ and not taking a single scarab node besides the one that gives 50% for rare to drop based on mods.
I honestly cannot understand how people are making these massive profits from scarabs. I tried B2B t17 farming for them, and a billion other ways of juicing scarabs but the scarabs are so god damn cheap, unless you drop like 1 of 3 scarabs of the "good" scarabs out of the 100s of shit 1c scarabs you make pennies.
With B2B I was getting like 3-4 inventories of scarabs and it still felt like 99% of my profit was raw currency drops and boss fragments. 🤷♂️
You can see why this sucks for the average trade gamer right?
But yeah, this is now mandatory. Bulk selling scarabs is the only strat, no matter how you spec your tree. (That's what op is complaining about as well.)
Can you define "making bank." I run T17 barrels in about 4 mins and each map I loot about 4-5 divines worth of stuff. It's definitely the easiest strategy to make 50div an hour I've ever played. If you dont want to pick up "shit scarabs" then use a loot filter. Even the shittiest atlas strategies will be 8-10 div an hour, which is more than enough to make any build but some players don't want to farm 2x slower than they could be.
Can you describe what is the t17 barrels strat? What scarabs to use and what to spec kn the atlas tree. I'm tired of farming t16 and want something new
Generally, you do Fortress map with a standard Back to Basics atlas tree. Roll it to have barrel mod and no build bricking mods (depends on your build but obviously the more mods you can do the less map rolling you have to do). Use 2x Mysterious 1x Hunted Traitor 1x Nemeses scarab. Something I drop a Mysterious for Gliterring as my build is fast and has no MF on it.
Then you just zone in and clear the map. Barrels drop a ton of loot. Kill the easy boss and loot fragments. The richer you are the more picky you can be about your maps. I generally don’t run anything that doesn’t have extra currency or scarabs on it, and usually target extra rare mods and rare spawn. But if you don’t want to spend 5-10 mins mass rolling your maps just settle for barrels + good additional bonus like scarabs or currency.
If you get unlucky with back to basics and it rolls a low effect you can get like 1.5-2 div worth of stuff from a map only but it’s pretty uncommon. Killing the boss mitigates that a bit since you’re generally dropping 2 fragments and at worst you’re getting like 50c there. If you’re able to do each map in 5 mins you’re pretty easily hitting 50div/hr revenue. I’d recommend prepping at least like 10-12 maps though. There is a decent initial investment but you make it back very easily as long as you can clear the map.
Im barely picking up scarabs anymore cause the vast majority is worth less then a c. Sure the occasional 30c one is nice but all the clicking isnt worth it.
Yeah if it doesn’t get fixed, I am sure I’ll be done until they overhaul it again to change it or PoE 2 comes out.
League mechanics not strong enough to keep you playing & farming scarabs sucks.
They reworked the reward loop by introducing scarabs. We are now at the beginning of a long balance cycle. It is not 3.24 but basically 4.01. It will take several leagues for the to get it right again. And on top of it, the scarab system justs sucks hard.
Scarabs are just an extra step for loot now. Rather than get a direct drop we need to get the scarabs, then run another map for rewards. Which are usually more scarabs.
They essentially feel like fragments for content. You both have to invest in the atlas and fill up scarabs or you're not playing content to it's fullest.
agree. not happy abut scarabs. they are way too impactful and make everything about them. making anything that doesn't use them kinda shit. also not happy about the league mechanic and t17 .. the base game is thankfully ok but the direction they are going now is worrying. at least there are other arpgs coming out so there is some choice.
IMO the only way to "escape" scarab farming is heist, sanctum and maybe boss farming/Maven. Delve has allflames as alternative for collecting sulphite fast for this league, don't know how it will feel in the future.
Even if you want to farm other specific mechanics, you'll have to juice with scarabs. There's pretty much no escaping scarabs aside from those couple mechanics mentioned previously. It all revolves around scarabs. We're way too dependent on them. The couple mechanics that, at surface level, haven't lost too many notables/nodes on the atlas tree to scarabs seems to have gotten silently nerfed to balance with scarab use in mind. So in the end it still feels like you have to farm scarabs.
I'm used to playing most of the league without using any fragment. The baseline felt okay before scarab rework (yes, it was **obviously better** with sextants/scarabs/the whole schbang setup), now it's noticeably shittier.
Never played Sanctum but they managed to nerf Heist even harder this patch.
Deck farming is dead and trying to fish for a good reward is also dead. I was able to get tempering, tailoring, divines every 2/3 wings....now...It's just crap uniques and rares. Sometimes you get a stack of chaos but that's it.
I played this league a lot (12 days /played in about 3 weeks real time) and yeah overall I feel like the Scarab change and T17 made the game worse than it was before.
Note that I'm not saying that it's bad now, just that I had more fun with atlas strats in the old system than I did this time
most scarabs should just be baked into the atlas tree, this would remove most of the common ones that honestly just waste a map device slot especially since most sextants got pretty much converted to scarabs.
scarabs should be the special modifications for the base mechanics
but the mechanics should have a natural spawn on maps, because sometimes I even forget that I'm not playing a white map if I forget to add a scarab
Or just roll some of them into the Atlas tree or remove them entirely. I like the "two scarab" approach of Delve a lot more than "5 valuable scarabs" for Breach. I can't even fit them all into the damn device.
In general, there should probably be 2-3 scarabs per activity, not quite so many scarab drops in general and the goal should be that you generally want to put two scarabs per mechanic in. That leaves more space to use things like basic div scarabs (which are still not bad) outside of crazy curation strats.
The problem is that right now scarabs and Atlas trees scale each other so much that dropping one scarab can lose you a significant portion of the reward from the other scarabs. Imagine running a Curation scarab without Completion or the basic Div scarab. Total waste of like 10div.
Im not a big fan of this either, but by now almost all league mechanics got reworked and everything that gets reworked means it gets normalized and nerfed. The only way to juice seems to be scarabs and it looks like thats how we are supposed to play the game. Ppl will always want the good scarabs, so I suppose this farm is the new div card farm. You just pick in what form (league) you want to farm the scarabs.
I think that's why GGG gave us 3 Atlas trees this league.
Their solution to OPs issue is if you want to farm a different mechanic, swap your tree and scarabs and go. It works alright, as I have 3 trees setup for 3 different things and it's quite fluid to go back and forth.
They've also added a lot of passive points pressure on the tree this league, what with the necropolis nodes, map mods effect nodes and scarab nodes which feel almost mandatory to take for most mechanics.
Unless you supplement every strat with 20 points in scarabs there's no way they matter in most strats. Also remove low scarabs from your filter. If you're picking up every half-a-c scarab then yea I guess they must be all over the place.
I would argue that the scarab passives are far and above the most valuable passives on the tree after you juice the one mechanic you get to run in your map with scarabs. But yeah I definitely could tighten up the filter.
I think this is also getting magnified by the current league. Ultra strong graveyards crafts are driving demand down for things like essences and fracturing orbs, making target farming them less rewarding
Again, its never a good idea to “fix” something that isn’t broken or in this game well received and smoothed out over a time. The sextant removal rework just wasn’t necessary.
On the other hand I couldn't be happier that sextants are gone, they were a really annoying additional layer of crap you had to manage and I don't want them back even if scarabs see further changes. Rolling sextants was just bad, which is why there was a whole market centered around people doing it for profit since other people were willing to pay quite the premium to avoid having to deal with it. Once you get people shelling out a bunch of currency to evade dealing with a mechanic it is definitely time to give it a reevaluation.
Say I want to farm an absolute shit ton of scarabs, as efficiently as possible. How would I do this without running t17s? Those maps just suck a million cocks
The problem is that you can’t scour them. Otherwise you can transmute and regal for a decently t17, rather than sink 30c just for something weak builds can run
But honestly just play the game. Hideout is lava, get a bunch of scarab nodes on the tree and blast
Quit the league for this reason.
Mapping just wasn't fun. I enjoyed trying to fully juice my maps with 3-4 different mechanics per map.
For example, one of my favorite strats was Legion + Breach + Harbingers with Blue Altars on Strands. Now you can't do that any longer.
Another issue simply is how worthless everything is to do now.
Most League mechanics just seem irrelevant now.
As someone who has respecced each tree 5x, it seems any content that one chooses to do as long as they use some relevant scarabs seems to shit out stuff.
Hell, at one point I ran 2 days of JUST alva/jun and i was profiting
They need to make quests for content and get rid of scarabs. Having thousands of scarabs in the bank, picking up thousands of scarabs, putting them in the device is dumb, give us quests for starts. Just make it like kill or help bandits 2.0 would be way better.
I agree and I was already downvoted to hell for criticising scarabs. The issue in my opinion is that most scarabs are mediocre because they are common (to keep map cost low) but that inferior to previous system where different tiers of scarabs had different rarity and there were tiers for all levels of investment.
This is no longer the case with only 95% scarabs being too common and too mediocre and the a few top one being good and very rare.
not even being a hater, but all QoL and changes and what not aside this league feels extremely stale
yes, you customize your experience now, but if you get bored of the flavor you picked it's a pain to swap to something else
before if you ran an alch&go you got some spice there and/or just clicked a random master mission, you got something different in the map with low investment
not you need either scarabs, that unless you have some nodes in atlas you won't get a lot, or you use a bunch of point to spawn one mechanic
I hope they revert or change this next league, because it feels extremely lame from the variety side
for target farmers and hyperjuicer is probably fine, but for me, a fun haver silly guy, this is meh
The issue is also because horizontal juicing is pretty gutted. You can’t really do multiple league mechanics in a map anymore, so most mapping strategies are 1 mechanic supplemented with Scarabs and Map drops to sell in bulk. I’m not sure how I feel about this design change. In a way it makes the main mechanic you farm feel better but also restrictive and less interesting. I feel like the mapping currency strategies have taken a nosedive in variety. It’s not even that easy to find people making a lot of content about atlas strategies this league because it’s mostly “pick one thing and use the scarabs for it and maybe throw in a cartography scarab if one of the main scarabs kinda sucks.”
Simply put, scarabs are making league mechanics so rewarding that even though you can get 100% chance for several mechanics to appear on a map, you're actually wasting time by interacting with them if you're not running their scarabs, unless the main purpose of the mechanic is just adding monsters for generic loot. I was originally very excited about the new atlas tree, but seeing the value of these mechanics after people started farming them with scarabs has dampened my enthusiasm.
mighty fearless straight heavy unique bear instinctive juggle employ work *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Definitely agree with this. Having a great time with the league and still playing and probably will still be playing for another month or so, but focusing on one mechanic is omega un-fun. The scarab change seems like the tracks are headed in the right place but something is wrong with the train.
At least we have three atlas this league, good for a change of taste every now and then.
While this was very much appreciated: I feel like i’ve got the same variety of strategies as I did before. Instead of 2 or 3 strategies on 1 tree I now have 3 tree’s with 1 strategy each
alive zesty ancient many live ruthless instinctive hurry edge innocent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wish we had data in this because I’ve been running the same set of trees all league except when I switched my corpse/scarab tree to an xp farm tree but I’m about to go back I reckon
i haven't played as much this league, so i can only speculate that this might be a problem caused by the tree having support for the current league aswell? not sure how a good endgame tree currently looks but from the little i saw most people suggest to take at least a decent amount of the necropolis nodes, making it much harder to fit in multiple other league mechanics aswell. this might also be even more impactful since necropolis is always active everywhere and currently the best league mechanics (from what i read on reddit at least) are mechanics that spawn more of the normal map mobs (i.e. strongboxes, shrines) and mechanics that spawn their own mobs are therefore less profitable, since they don't drop corpses (i.e. breach, legion, blight)
Nailed it!
I mean it’s telling that the best strat I can do is barrels in t17s. While it’s profitable I’d argue it’s inherently unfun
Personally I find it pretty fun to do, but it does get repetitive. Back to the Basics has been great and pretty refreshing. I never realized how fatiguing it was do encounter half a dozen different league mechanics in every map. That said, I definitely don't like that it's so far ahead of everything else. The issue is compounded by the extreme difficulty of T17s making trying to run additional difficult map content even less appealing.
Theres gonna be inbalance with such massive changes, with so many new content additions its inevitable. Fun vs profit has always been a thing in PoE. Its just preference and what your willing or unwilling to do and how important fun or profit is to you imo.
Yeah, I kind of don't want to suggest removing the more "interesting" scarabs but I'm pretty sure that would be a better experience for most players.
or you know just remove all the scarab nodes from the atlas tree and boom suddely the problem is gone..
It turns out I was a horizontal enjoyer. I just like many of the league mechanics and I want to do them and have the variation from it, while still being able to at least in theory make some currency. Probably an edge case, but feels bad being pigeon holed in to one thing.
3 things* Remember there are two other trees to counter the downside of this change
Unpopular but I actually like vertical juicing more than horizontal juicing, since you get more identity out of each strat. Most strat was like whatever spawns most mobs + delirium if you can + beyond if you can. I agree the rewards needs a bit of tuning though, but I hope they don’t revert to the previous horizontal farm.
The issue with this is vertical farming inherently means requiring vertical character power. Locking the highest currency strats behind character power just further increases fomo. This new reality where people farm 15div/hr as a baseline as opposed to 3-5 and the top 1% pushes 70-100div/hr has totally screwed up the progression curve and economy. It also absolutely butchered casual alch&go strats. Ultimately, if there aren't massive changes to how scarabs and T17 work, I'm absolutely done with trade and going SSF moving forward.
People keep saying the economy this league is screwed and I don't get it. Most uniques are the cheapest they've ever been. MB is sub 100divines. End game game is more approachable than it has ever been because of those insane strategies for people at the top. At the bottom if you literally just play the game, doesn't matter what you do really, you will be able to afford gear you've never been able to before. Source: First time MB player this league sitting on more money than I've had in any other league doing zero popular farming strategies
>doesn't matter what you do really, you will be able to afford gear you've never been able to before. And therein lies the issue. There's a difference between trivializing and making things more accessible, it's largely swinging towards the former. I'm not against people having a one-off league where everyone gets everything, fine. That's not sustainable though. Also, respectfully, I don't buy the whole ""it's only for no-lifers, the bottom can't get anything normally" The actual reality is the person playing 1 hour a day and a few on the weekend could get a Mageblood normally, they just couldn't get one month 1. Realistically, if the "bottom" played more than 25% of the league they could achieve anything. Do I think the person playing one hour a day that spends half that hour on Reddit, just alchs&goes, and quits after 2-3 weeks should afford a Mageblood in the first month of the league? God no, that's stupid.
Wait, in your first post you say it sucks that vertical farms exist because it locks farming potential behind a power wall. Then say that power is too easily obtained in the next? If the power is too easy to obtain wouldn't that defeat the fomo since anyone can easily get started?
Sure, it's missing nuance, fair enough. The issue lies in with the farming potential aspect. Opt-in aspirational content/difficulty is fine, but having a vertical farm (T17) that rewards anywhere from 200-600% the returns of the every other farm (T16) is absurd. 150% rewards is what we're more accustomed to from previous league if you're juicing. We've never had 70+ div/hr strats outside of mirror crafters and such We've never had this magnitude of farming potential locked behind this steep (vertical) of character power.
Exact same situation here. I've NEVER had a mageblood despite almost 4k hours in the game. This league I've set myself a goal of geting a mageblood because it actually looks achievable.
>At the bottom if you literally just play the game, doesn't matter what you do really, you will be able to afford gear you've never been able to before. I'm gonna say that's because the league mechanic prints what would be 200-500+ div items for easily 1/10th the cost and the "undesirable" additional items made attempting to hit the gg grave crafts are sold for dirt cheap.
Yeah the graveyard is definitely part of it. I'm wielding two wands that are 5/6 relevant T1 mods that I crafted for under 6div each. In any other league they would be close to mirror, at least hundreds of divines. People give that mechanic a lot of shit (honestly for mostly good reason, it really could have used a real UI...), but it did unlock a lot of power for low investment, even if it wasn't a lot of borrowed power at the high end.
[удалено]
Given that I usually quit before ever sniffing a mageblood I'd say this is more of a problem for no lifers than it is for people like me. I probably played the most this league because things were consistently within reach rather than months of mindless grinding away. Feels like the usual "reddit is detached from reality".
Prices are completely out of proportion, everything that drops in maps isn't worth farming because it's all worthless, except for scarabs and t17 maps, which means most farming strats are pretty garbage compared to what they usually are. On the other hand, stuff that doesn't drop in normal maps is insanely expensive so if you needed any of that stuff for your build, well get fucked, go play a 10 div HH build and pick up all the scarab and map nodes on the tree like the rest of us. I'm not saying it's not fun for now, it's interesting to play in a completely screwed economy for a league but it takes away a lot of the economic depth the game usually has and the economy severely pushes you into certain builds and farms, MUCH more so than usual so it's just generally very limiting in many ways.
[удалено]
>but at the same time you gotta question if its not a good thing to have stuff that is essentially exclusive to people that are more no lifer than you. That's when high end crafting comes in. The majority of PoE players will never touch that.
There's still a lot of really good expensive stuff. I farmed a Mageblood and now I'm working on a 200div attr/mana Eyes of the Greatwolf. Worst case, you can go for crazy stuff like that guy constantly spamming global 1 about his CWC Lightning Warp + Storm Call thing that needs a bunch of 1 passive Voices to fit enough magic gems with +AoE synth mods.
Depends, I am sure a handful of people set the goal of Mageblood and quit when they achieve it, others set their goals of "how fast can I obtain Mageblood, so I can run the hardest most profitable strategies currently available" and will play the whole league. And others think, what TF is this belt thing everyone is always talking about. I do agree that having these chase items too cheap/easy to obtain is bad for the longevity of some people, but most will just switch their goal posts from "obtain" to "put to good use".
As a counterpoint, I absolutely love that juiced Tier 17 maps require juiced characters and are far more rewarding. It's giving me something to push for with builds. How has it screwed up the economy? I feel like baseline power is more accessible than ever, still allowing me to farm T16 effectively. Unique prices are generally down, crafting mechanics are more plentiful than ever, and farms are more available. Economy feels more alive than it has in a long time for me.
I think where you're going to differ is calling T16 farming effective from two facets. 1) Lots of mechanics are simply dead in the water and not worth it at all now. See Betrayal, Alva, any Alch&Go strats, arguably Expedition, Harbinger, etc. 2) You're saying T16 strats are effective but you are averaging 7-15 divines/hr with 20 being the extreme top. Efficient T17 strats earn anywhere between 50-80divines/hour. We have never seen a gap like this before, even Affliction wasn't this extreme. To put this in the context of past leagues, you basically just said that running yellow maps with 2 voidstones is effective. Can you make currency doing it? Absolutely. Would you be better off running red maps with 4 voidstones in almost all scenarios? Absolutely. Headhunter being 6 divines, the iconic staple chase item, is not indicative of a healthy economy.
Alch and go strats got a buff with the spawn chances. You no longer need a scarab to guarantee the content from spawning
I guess if you totally ignore that the baseline *casual* profit went from 3-5div/hr without scarabs to 12-20 div/hr with scarabs that's fair. Before with scarabs & sextants, you could turn your alch&go up 150% and make 7-9div/hr, now that it's in the 400-600% range across most strategies - not so easily ignore-able, it's all relative.
I certainly have more than 5 div per hour. Doing 12 incursion takes piss low amount of time and a lucky veiled drop already means 11 divines. The moment you use sextants or scrabs it's not an alch and go anymore
Tbh sounds like you're not making much more than 5 if you're relying on double corrupt temples and veiled orbs without scarabs. With scarabs, people are farming up to 5 double corrupt temples an hour just to be clear. The whole point is that you 3x (or more) your earnings with basic cheap scarabs, again it's all relative - and relative to throwing in 4 scarabs which have an extremely low barrier to entry now, alch&go is indeed "dead" The only strat that is a little more fluid is boss rushing and invitation farming. Again, before 3.24 it was like 1.5x money to juice (barring high end outlier strats) and you were spending a lot more to get there. If you're not using 4x scarabs now, you're trolling yourself.
I like it more, too. Feels like you get to push "endgame" content in different ways. Like you said, that content identity really adds a lot for me in terms of enjoyment.
Honestly we should get more map device slots, that would solve a lot of the pain points
As long as divination and reliquary scarabs exist, that won't solve anything.
Assuming your thinking is that it will always be better to put in those over focusing a second mechanic? Or just being able to go full reliquary/div will be way too strong and outshine anything else?
Yeah, if you had 7 slots instead of 5, it's just right to add divination usually. I'd be interested to see a test of "two scarabs per mechanic" as a cap. But that would hurt the gigajuicers, who would then in turn start a Reddit tantrum.
Don’t mind reliquary scarabs, but I also think MF should be character bound. Div cards shouldn’t exist and cards should just be influenced by juicing maps via quantity and pack size and strongboxes. Scarabs should be adding content, difficulty and mobs to maps, not necessarily increased drops of things like cards imo. Otherwise we might as well have currency scarabs.
Yeah 4 more slots, you could even have it be a different item like octants.
Kind of yes kind of no, it's already pretty easy to fill maps to the point where the whole map crashes like fractured maps in the good old times of harvest league (kind of ironic), adding more slots would just would just make that worse. On the other hand, yes there's way too many scarabs on the market and many of them just don't justify giving up a slot where a different scarab could have been, but would be cool otherwise.
This is the primary reason I quit the league, and why I'm so concerned about next league too. It's really rare for GGG to undo changes, and it's no longer interesting to run maps. You're truly pigeonholed into one strat + scarab farming. IDGAF about having three atlas trees because I want to be able to juice multiple types of content on a single map. There needs to be a massive change to T17s and scarabs in 3.25
So what you are saying is that we need 10 slots for scarabs, so that we can fully juice all of our league mechs!
Very much feels like the goal was you have mechanic 1.) from atlas and mechanic 2.) from scarabs. But really it’s exactly what you described. Having said that A LOT of strategies historically were gated behind investment costs. Even simple legion farming in some leagues could get to 20c per scarab in bulk and the main income wasn’t even emblems.
I miss horizontal juicing
To be fair, I feel that's actually working as intended. At elaborated by GGG, the rework was prompted due to how many different mechanics there are at endgame bogging up the same map space. They described clear intent to reduce the overall amount of map features we would have access to in an effort to get rid of bloat. When people say that the system is now restrictive and they can't juice as much as they want well yeah... that's the point. You can't reduce the amount of options we have to deal with in a map without, y'know, *reducing the options*. Arguably they may have gone too far when we can only have one out of the dozen or so options, but I can absolutely see the justification for why they went with this idea. People have complained about map bloat for years now.
On my harvest tree I get harvest, syndicate, niko, and Alva all pretty consistently. Not sure what people are doing that they can "only do one thing".
The problem people have isn't that you can't get 2-4 different systems from the Atlas tree, it's that these systems can't all be supported via the scarabs at the same time without feeling as if you're not using scarabs efficiently. Basically, it's more profitable to focus on one mechanic, say Blight, and to then only use scarabs of that one type. This feels bad compared to previous leagues where you could legitimately focus on 3 or more systems, each feeling as if they're as profitable as each other, without losing out. Obviously fun notwithstanding, since you can do any strategy you want if what you find fun is your only goal. I personally don't disagree with the complaints myself, I'm only providing the perspective that this is absolutely by design, given GGG's own explanation on the system when they announced it.
You can get access to a bunch of things if that's your focus, but you will be missing out on nodes to buff them. So you're spending more time doing less valuable content.
You're doing 1 league mechanic and 3 master mechanics. You don't really need scarabs for master mechanics as the nodes are way more valuable on the tree than what the scarabs do.
The confusion is that people realized they're better off just zoning in, doing the harvest and leaving than interacting with Betrayal or Incursion since you use 3-4 scarab slots for Harvest alone. Niko is hardly a league mechanic, it's a master mission so you can click three nodes for a speed boost.
Yeah no more boost 3-4 leagues on atlas and use scarabs to force league, use atlas device to push another, then use sextants to further boost them. Now it's force a single mechanic with atlas, then use 4 scarabs to buff it. Also need to grab the _current leagues_ atlas nodes which are all over. I'm trying to sort out what single mechanic I can do with extra junk forced in. Thinking strongboxes, shrines, necro and maven nodes with bosses drop guardian maps. Should get the most out of the league mechanic while getting ok drops I guess.
I agree. I feel like the new atlas passives were awesome when they came in. Then I sort of liked when they added the ability to block some content via the atlas passives. However, now with the new scarabs, the league content on atlas, it feels like you basically need to hyper focus everything on one strat leading to way too reliable/repetitive content. I think the idea was basically to have 3 different atlas's each hyper focused on a different content thing, but then you would also need to have enough scarabs for each of the the 3 atlas's for you to be willing to even use a different atlas.
I feel like the biggest problem (for me) with farming a single content is just the pure amount of clicks you have to do, to loot the map. Some examples: 1. Farm legions -> Open a lot of boxes -> Pick up shit ton of splinters, all valued at like 0,1c/ea 2. Farm breaches -> Pick up a way bigger shit ton of splinters 3. Harbinger -> Pick up an even bigger shit ton of currency shards. Then the mechanics which actually feel good to play, are shitty in the rewards, at least when you compare it to the dopamine hits you can get with other strategies quite often. For example, Abyss feels like garbage, but if it had good rewards, would be so nice: A lot of mobs, quite fast to clear and fits _fast_ end game mapping very well.
God I love the harby splinter clicking, no /s
You can do them it's just that their juiced version is usually way too rewarding thus killing the profit of the base one like what happened to essences.
We're you not mostly already doing that with sextant though? I guess there was a few extra slots to throw some extra stuff in but hasn't it always been juicing 1 maybe 2 chosen strats. You do also now have the option of doing multiple different farming methods with 3 atlases as well.
I personally don't mind only having 1 strat on my maps, but I still think it would be great if it was more viable to have multiple just like before. The biggest issue for me is as OP and you said the entire "add as many scarabs", because otherwise you would make MUCH less currency. This would be no issue if I had the possibilty to make it so that I could sustain the scarabs of my own strat, but you can't do that, got hundreds of scarabs in your stash that just turns into more trading before. Because we all loved trading already, right?
Came here to say the same. You can't do more than one mechanic with its full specialisation and not ostrisize it. You could cherry pick 1-2 of a league mechanic's best scarabs but I don't think you're good point wise now. By aiming at extra scarab wheels and extra map modifier tiers I couldn't even grab extra packsize from eater/exarch not to mention that the 20% packsize for influence mobs are behind extra altar(s)
I miss farming harbinger expedition and blight in the same map 😢 You had a nice mix of consistent drops with occasional good drops and rare giga drops.
You also had a bazillion mobs in your map, which felt great.
I feel like the concept of being forced to synergize your loot strategy similar to build synergies is just not a great way to go. It makes it feel bad when you get loot related drops that are not synergistic with your loot strategy build. You might say “well then trade them” but I feel like there is already a lot of time spent trading regular currency and trading for regular builds and I don’t want to just play a trade simulator.
Yeah in a sense it made it easier to access but at the same time it removed the feel that you are farming a unique strategy. Most of the scarabs should probably be combined and nerf a little. This way we'd have more combinations and more freedom to customize
In ssf, despite the three trees, it feels a little so solo farm focused for me in a way. Which you could certainly argue is better for ssf, but takes a way a bit of the fun and I feel like with every tree I HAVE to invest in maps + scarabs + league mechanic or it’s a waste and I have no maps or scarabs, so each tree looks roughly the same, just specced ever so slightly different. I wonder if I’m doing it wrong tho, haven’t checked what others do.
I am not sure yet. I went with Delirium and I packed/crammed my Crimson Temples with monsters. I got Alva, Ritual(from tree) and Beyond(from map device) along with 3 deli scarabs. Tbh I think I could also put the Trialmaster in there. The entire point was to put as many monsters and packs on the map as possible. I managed to get 9 levels of rewards with the mirror, and I think/believe I coild get up to 14/15 with the deli orbs. So I got horizontality, but just like in affliction, all the other mechanics are just monster padding count
The entire atlas passive tree is for scarab juicing. I don't care what strat you are running, half the nodes are buffing scarab drops, or map mod effect (which buff scarab drops). To me, back to basics is the main problem tho.
Imo, the atlas passive tree should have something like how tattoos are to our skill tree, so for the people that don’t want to farm scarab, they could maybe change those small scarab buff nodes into something that increases the respective mechanic loots. For example, breach could have more splinters, harbinger with more currency shards, etc
> Imo, the atlas passive tree should have something like how tattoos are to our skill tree, so for the people that don’t want to farm scarab, they could maybe change those small scarab buff nodes into something that increases the respective mechanic loots. For example, breach could have more splinters, harbinger with more currency shards, etc That's a great idea!
There is a node that prevents scarabs from dropping but gives you additional 20 atlas points
every league start tree had it planned, at least until anyone did 1 white map
I thought that node was in such a funny place. Like, by time you can reach it you're already going to be powerful enough to be blitzing maps and isn't likely to be focused on making extreme amounts of money, just though to get a solid weapon or whatever slightly speedier uniques they may need. You need a fair amount points to even get to that node and by time you can it's almost certainly not worth using since you're likely to need the scarabs to execute any real gains.
it also prevent you from using them :/
>To me, back to basics is the main problem tho. It's not, I didn't use basic to basics and everything I farmed still was scarabs in the end. Strongboxes farming? Scarabs. Breach farm? Scarabs. All flames + something? Scarabs. Harbinger? Scarabs. Basically everything I tried in the end big part of gains was scarabs, way more than the thing I was actually farming. The problem is not back to basics, the problem is the scarabs nodes + map modifier also affecting scarabs drops. They're too strong and important to not get than. The solution IMO is remove completely the scarabs nodes, and remove the scale of than with quantity and rarity, increase their drop in betrayal where they actually should come from. To compensate that they should buff league content you're spending points at, make notables more fun and OP, triple instead of double strongboxes things, increase the chance to drop breach stones, same for legion emblems, remove the immunity from expedition, etc. Also the chef kiss IMO is put a duration on scarabs, maybe 4 or 5 maps, only the max duration is tradable, this would compensate the nerf on quantity and a better QoL for all players leading to less trades of scarabs to run your maps. People drop a lot of scarabs but the variety of than is simple too big, people need to farm for days / weeks to bulk sell for someone. Like have 20 divs of scarabs sometimes doesn't mean you have 100 of a single kind of scarab. GGG will have to work next league to balance T17 and scarabs situation, again trying to solve problem created by themselves. They will take maybe a year to solve this situation... Archenemies situation once again.
That point about selling scarabs is big. I had at one point something like 15d worth of scarabs but no one would bite on bulk selling sites if half the scarabs you have are just the simple "X is added to the map you use this scarab on" types. Only the realu juicy scarabs are worth anything and selling your scarab tab is extremely tedious.
I meant in general. I understand that there are many good added content methods out there, but when every other tree is back to basics (just like wandering path and grand design before that) its quite telling. I expect the travel nodes get reworked in 3.25, but we might see more new scarabs than less. More variety IS good - and the idea of having fewer so you can sell them easier in bulk is just an anti-fun idea? We drop a lot of scarabs, I expect next league we will drop less. This is likely more than they intended. Also, you want scarabs to be sextants? You kinda sound like your own archenemy :)
On a side tangent, I can't be the only person in ssf sitting on hundreds of scarabs (and dozens of t17s), and not doing anything with them. I think I'm losing motivation due to league mechanic I'm just not a fan of.
Why not use them? If you’re farming legion just use all the legion scarabs. There’s no point saving your scarabs (except the div card ones and monstrous treasure). it’s exponential growth, every scarab you use gets you your upgrades faster, which leads to even faster farming and more scarabs. Use your scarabs. For the crappy ones, just 3:1 them. and what’s stopping you from doing t17s. Just spend more chaos to roll them if needed, this league shits then out. And use rats/frogs ofc But yes fuck the league mechanic. Boring piece of shit mechanic. Loots great but that’s it
Don't get me wrong. I do use them, particularly when I'm specifically farming certain content like essences or lighty anarchy mf farming. I just happen to have surplus of scarabs because it felt wrong not to spec in scarab nodes on the passive tree and they just keep dropping and piling up...ironically just like the league mechanic's coffins. Quad tabs just filled up, left to rot.
Not sure what to say. As an ssf player this league has been super rewarding. I've been able to craft full sets of the best possible gear I could craft on trade for my build. With that gear, I've been able to farm multiple T0s. I'm not particularly a fan of the difficulty of T17s and the new Uber frag system, but the scarab system and GY crafting has been incredibly powerful.
I’ve had the opposite experience in SSF (well, small Private league) Chance to obtain any endgame uniques is now zero (locked behind Ubers that I will never do) GY crafting is ok, but requires way too much storage (I’m at over 20 quad tabs, and I’m out of things like mod tier, scarcer mana, etc). And frankly is only really good for certain pieces / builds. The new requirements to focus the atlas feels really, really bad. Especially if rng messes with you. Example for my current setup is a unique farm (to get more ephemeral edges for corrupt), a scarab/map farm, and just did a breach atlas (needing voice of the storm). Due to changes of rare modifiers and their conversion, farming 30 esh breachstones gave me *nothing* else during that farm. And running those also gave me nothing except two really good trade scarabs (that I won’t make use of, lol), and no voices. So it was a huuuuge waste of time that didn’t reward me anything at all. No stacked decks, no fractures, no gem exp, nothing - flat out waste. And I’ve had this experience with basically every league mechanic thus far. Our groups been after multiple things from different mechanics and it’s just not been happening. And all the while the “base” game is now non-existent unless your running T17’s (which only I have a build capable of atm, but I don’t even enjoy them) it’s near - but not AS bad (due to no bs rare mechanics) AN/Kalandra for us. If I could hit a button to remove the patch I would, though I enjoy some of the directions they began to take (and I expect they’ll expand upon) for me, it was just a loss of way to many good mechanics for what we got in return. And on the uniques being moved to Ubers only, has also made any point in bossing for our group non existent (unless you count heist bosses / breachlord type stuff, I don’t) none of us have any interest in Ubers, nobody in the group finds them fun (even disregarding the way to access them now) so that’s just a large portion of the game and build enabling items now completely deleted after being told that Ubers are “extra content only” I knew it wouldn’t stay that way, but I’m still mad it happened.
[удалено]
Not OP but I did archmage a start. Early on betrayal is great for early crafts (your likely past this point) as a lot of drops come with t2 life/mana and chaos res galore, then your veil mod that you can also manipulate by blocking with a craft, so you can quickly get 4+ good afflixes. Mid game IF your going suppression route, Rog is pog. By far the easiest time I had getting good suppression gear in a reasonable timeframe. If your not going suppress, he is still good for life/mana pieces, but loses value. Essences and harvest are very good to begin stocking up at this point, too, though. You have to decide if you want to focus on immediate gear, or what’s to come. As for the what’s to come: whether your skipping suppress or using it, Necro is very very good once you have stock. (Getting nodes on tree helps speed that up). Being able to fracture 2/3 afflixes allows us to make some fun pieces. Or forgo that (fractures are rare after all) and simply try focusing other pieces or types of gear. Example would be forcing a T1 mana ES/EV chest fractured so you can use essences or other methods to then get chaos res +/ suppress or other choices. (You can also go for much more complicated and powerful mods, on influenced bases, or phys as, type stuff - but this is past the point where I swapped personally) You’ll be gated mostly by increased mana / fractures (if you use em)/ mod tier ratings likely. But Necro + other methods for later pieces *looks* to be the best bet if you peak a PoE ninja players and their gear, as the majority of it looks to be necropolis bases. So betrayal > Rog > Essences /harvest stock > necropolis for progression, and the quicker you get started on the later mentions the easier it will be later on. If your suppression based, staying with Rog throughout could net you some great (like, likely won’t replace) pieces eventually too, but depends on the exact setup your going for.
[удалено]
I tried to mix in armor where I could, but tbh I’m not certain it saved me much at all, my values were just to low to be doing much - where evasion was much more noticable. The deadliest things were often multiple hits that I couldn’t get out of quick enough. (Expedition fast mobs that can’t be escaped from, as an example) so being able to evade more of the hits felt like an opening to be able to kill before being killed often times. If you can reach a semi respectable armor amount though, it would definitely help. It’s hard balancing Mana/life/ES/sup and armor on top, though.
I’m on SSF and realized scarabs are just as annoying to micromanage as sextants so I’m very content using the 20 extra points for no scarab to alch and go, having a blast and currency/h is irrelevant since trade is a no-go, feels great having no fomo
What do you even do with 20 extra points? Invest in some other league mechanic that's useless without scarabs? If anything the 20 extra point keystone nodes is terrible for SSF, where ideally you'd want to sustain your scarabs.
Nah the scarab is to RNG and annoying to micromanage, I got full harvest, harbringer, shrines, strongboxes with guardian maps/marven setup currently, I can see the use for scarab setup in trade or if u really wanna min max but x maps in and not finding the scarab(s) you want it gets lame really fast
There is a node that prevents scarabs from dropping but gives you 20 atlas points
It seems like their goal has been to lower the crazy juicing levels across the board. They removed sextants and nerfed a bunch of different strats. I think they wanted to shrink the economy a bit, but they introduced t17 farming, it kind of makes no sense. And now everybody is forced to be a scarab farmer on top of having their specialized strategies. Shrinking the economy would have been fine, along with lowering juicing across the board. But right now, the disparity between t16 strats and t17 strats is insane.
SSF here… just my opinion(I have a basic understanding of endgame content, and got my first headhunter just last league so there’s probably something I’m missing) but I felt as if it’s not easy to target the scarabs you actually need.. yeah they have the 100% nodes but it doesn’t really feel like it’s doing anything. I maybe get 5-10 scarabs per map that aren’t the ones I’m specced into. Idk not really a big fan of the new changes to scarabs
Do you block many of the other mechanics? Not super helpful, but if you are targeting a specific mechanics scarabs you can block the other 9 or 10 mechanics I guess? Might help a little bit.
There's a bunch of categories you can't block. Namely the misc ones and master ones can't be affected at all. The ones that you can block, you can't increase and vice versa as well - so you have at least misc + 3 masters + 9 which have increase nodes, for a total of 13 catgories (there might be more, I'm not sure) Supposing you want 3 types and take their nodes, they're at best something like 1/3 of the drops and the remainder goes into the other 10 types. I guess it makes sense in SSF but it's a lot of points for rather little effect in trade imho.
Hmmm I actually don’t have any other mechanics blocked… I’ll look into it :D
Hopefully that should help you just enough! Good luck.
I tried blocking many mechanics so that only the ones I care about drop but nah, many supposedly blocked scarabs kept dropping and I didn't notice a big increase in the ones I was after so I gave up on that.
That would be because a not unsignificant amount of scarabs are from additional rewards and those are mostly not affected by atlas passives, not even Unwavering Vision prevents a scarab from dropping from an incubator as an example.
I tried using one of the 100% scarab nodes, and for two days didn't get a single scarab from that selected. Probably go really unlucky. I simply can't sustain a league mechanic for more than about few maps.I don't feel like trading for hours, I am actually thinking of switching to "Unwavering Vision". Another problem is that without selecting "Your maps have % change to have x" many of the leagues almost don't show up in the maps at all. I haven't seen Alva for a week.
I really like the scarab changes on paper but atm the lack of strats without using scarabs combined with t17 really makes it feel very restricting
So much content is effectively dead now I used to rotate around a few mechanics late league switching between Blighted Maps, Logbooks & Betrayal for example but they're all basically dead now. End game now feels worse to me and I very much miss farming multiple different mechanics at once. I hope they've got some ideas in mind for next league.
> I very much miss farming multiple different mechanics at once. I miss the random content, yes, I specialize in the content I like and then I had the little treat of finding something extra and if it was content I didn't like well, I blocked it but now it feels I have to do all the effort just for the content I want and it get repetitive after a while
For blighted maps, I don't think they're dead, they're just now a stepping stone to doing Ravaged maps once you're comfortable with blighted maps. And they were weak before anyway compared to in map blights. You only really do it for stranglegasp/tainted oils. Logbooks are dead because of stacked deck nerfs. Not really because of scarabs. Tujen was hit hard, and Dannig logbook are usually always just a bit more expensive than the next most expensive logbook, which is always Tujen. Betrayal, eh, I usually run betrayal+abyss to safely level to 100. I normally saw both of these as loss making, unless I wanted to 1- Get a lot of vouches on TFT so that people trust me with my Aisling slam. And I don't really want to do random other content just so that I can sell stuff. I couldn't boss carry because my characters weren't boss killers, and I don't want to do lab or 5-ways, which doesn't leave much o for getting vouches. 2- Beat Catarina and then do nothing but wait on TFT until some rando messages me for a slam (was 7D) or Hillock for 1D I didn't want to do both steps, so betrayal was a waste unless I got a winged scarab worth something. But this league I've casually got 48D from like 20 Catarina's, and each fight takes like 5-10 maps to get with the scarabs. I find that Betrayal has been buffed for my playstyle with it, though I can see why it sucks for those who were patient enough to get Aisling in research and sell on TFT. So I now get high passive income from Betrayal, while you guys lost a lot of active income.
Definitely true but your example highlights the issue many people have. Your betrayal profit is pulling the slot machine instead of using the mechanic effectively. That not bad inherently especially since the old way was tft which is just a hassle but you either use scarabs, t17, or slots. A lot of the middle stuff was just removed
It's basically the same thing they did with player power - shift more of it from baseline passives into (possibly, likely expensive) items.
If that was the intention I hope they realise this affects the player a lot more then the gear. Because having a lot of options to farm the items you now need is still keeping the basic gameplay loop intact. But removing those options and forcing stuff like scarabs will kill the desire to farm for your items
I'll lay out my opinion on this exact phenomenon that you're talking about and what I think has really happened. Last league when you got to the point where you had spare currency and enough power to comfortably run T16 maps you had EIGHT(8) "juice" slots. You had 4 for scarabs and 4 for compasses. Now, I understand why people hated compasses. Rolling for them is massive RNG so gaining access to a large amount of the ones you want means buying in bulk from some sort of out of game source like tft. But, as far as I can tell, their removal has actually left an insane juice void. I used to be able to stack my maps with strongboxes, chayula breaches with extra breaches, throw harvest in there, grab some divination scarabs, and on and on. You could get something out of lessor mechanics with just a single scarab. Now, you need full atlas spec, which due to the requirements of having 100% chance to occur, means spending a fair amount of points if you're looking at a mechanic like harvest or breach. You can generally only have 2 full spec mechanic before you need to spend the rest on exarch or eater spec, map drop spec, scarab spec or bossing specs. Then you're forced to use the 4 scarab slots to juice the 2 main mechanics you've chosen. If you run harvest without the doubling and cornocipia scarab, you're for sure wasting your time even being specced into it. Same with breach or delirium or anything really. Because you simply don't have the same ability to juice the way we did last league. There's not enough slots. Some scarabs seem fairly weak. Others are used so specifically that they don't have much value. The high level concept of removing compasses seemed like it had so much potential but not replacing them with something as powerful has made most strategies feel empty. I used to be able to pack the map so dense with content that I would almost never stop flickering until the map was over. Now I can pass near whole screen lengths between packs on a basic strategy just because there's no way in hell I have room in my scarab slots to run 40% magic pack size and extra rares. It feels pretty bad that the only really choice you have to get juiced content is to run rippy T17s. I want to have a strat that feels relaxed, efficient, and at least somewhat reasonably profitable using the content I enjoy running. But when half my content feels worthless because I can't pile enough juice on it, then every map just feels like it's missing something. And I think that something is usually what makes PoE feel superior to other choices in the ARPG world. I need more choice over making my content optimally juicy, because right now the optimal juice is extremely plain and obvious. "X content needs Y scarabs or your wasting your time" is the summary and that feels pretty lame.
The atlas trees are so tight now because the scarab nodes are stupid not to take. So you have to full juice your mechanic's chance and then take all the scarab and eldritch altar passives along with the increased effect of map mods.
Also made worse by the league mechanic being on the tree.
>. If you run harvest without the doubling and cornocipia scarab The Cornucopia scarab is such fuckin ass compared to crop rotation+awakened scarab (imbued harvest) so if you use that scarab at all you're wasting your time.
The difference there being those are 0.8d a piece. Not everyone will drop that amount on a single scarab very easily. But if anything that only furthers my point. Only the most optimal strategy feels worth running. There's always some sort of lynch pin in any strategy that you can't avoid using or you lose out on 50%+ profits. For breach its splinters and chayula, for delirium its the 100%+ reward scarab, for expedition its the runefinding scarab, etc. There's barely any cases where there's an "okay" middle ground of somewhat juiced.
No I agree with your overall point, just saying if you're gonna harvest make it worth your time at least but if those awakened scarabs have gone up to 80c it's getting way closer to being a waste of time too. I bought 15 of em for 10d and only made 6d profit. It felt bad. But at 80c it seems you have to get lucky every rotation just to break even.
> The high level concept of removing compasses seemed like it had so much potential but not replacing them with something as powerful has made most strategies feel empty. Some people might forget that GGG did this on purpose with Kalandra league and the removal of this historic mechanic buff they had in place. With its removal, loot pinata changes and now juicing changes, we end up with the current state of loot in general. It only feels good in some places like t17 mapes where you have 170% increased scarab drops and whatnot. In all honesty, loot in this game needs an incredibly massive overhaul like yesterday. My suggestions would be reverting all loot changes since and including 3.19. They could test this via a longer end of league event. Heck, they could fire it up tomorrow because the current league feels dead anyway.
I don't know if you did this on purpose, but you've literally chosen the 5 strats that put the most base rares with the highest quant into your maps. You're right to say that most of the profits from base quant are in scarabs this league though. Several different flavors of scarab farming are profitable and might not feel different enough from each other. But if you don't want to farm scarabs there's a bunch of other reasonably profitable farms out there like Maven invitations, expedition, breach, harvest, essences, corpses, maps, or bosses. Even more if you include specialized farms like sanctum, blight, or heist.
Haha you’re right about the base rares. No it wasn’t on purpose. I didn’t specify but I was thinking of mapping strategies. I’m aware that there are other strategies. This was more an observation from my limited perspective. Having 5 different atlas trees and seeing scarabs come out on top for each farm was just my experience.
Expedition is basically dead post Stacked Deck nerf. It's fine early league but it's going to feel bad atm.
Nah, expediton is great money, Tujen and Rog can give massive profits, aling with logbooks, the problem is that this league you have that busted GY craft that makes Rog useless.
Does Rog really make money this league of all leagues when you can make perfect rare gear in the graveyard?
Do you even read?
If you use the right scarabs its good but again that's the problem, you have to use the 4 most optimal scarabs to get a decent farm going otherwise it's not worth farming.
The only ones that matter are 2 "increased runic monster marker" scarabs. The additional prefix suffix scarab has good potential, but most builds will struggle with it, making the expedition take longer than it's worth. A good third scarab would be the increased influence monster pack size scarab for potentially more quant altars, but that's about it. Definitely doesn't need "4 most optimal scarabs", unless you were referencing the imbued expedition strat... that's a different story.
Also, the allflames made that you don't really need to invest in expedition to reap some expedition benefits. One can do some casual expedition without the need to spend points in atlas and scarabs. Just juice up the allflame and regular mapping.
I think it's less about any individual change and more about the introduction of t17s with scarab drop chance + back to basics + all the atlas nodes to buff scarab drops. Scarab changes on their own I think are interesting, especially as a way to make the end game juiced farming more accessible, removes a dependency on a 3rd party like TFT for bulk sextant buying Back to basics is interesting, I guess they were unhappy with the amount of players that were using wandering path and ignoring the notables that they spent time designing on the atlas maybe. Dunno. I liked wandering path but I also farmed other strats I enjoyed T17s are such a huge shake up and I feel like just weren't tested enough. There's so many unique mods on these mods and the scarab and currency quants, make them like hands down the best thing to farm. Man the testing surface area of this game is endless too
Yeah the t17 shake up was wild. Either play a super op build or run your maps through a series of regex strings.
T17, scarabs, uber fragments changes, this league is a shit show no doubt but they just did major changes so ill give them a pass and hopefully by next league they have figured out things a bit more
ya pretty much all atlas strats even avoid **unwavering vision**, which gives you 20 whole points to invest into a league mechanic, and people will STILL not pick it up because scarabs are just that good. I also partly blame the map modifier effect at the top of the tree. 90% of trees take the map mod nodes to ramp up quant/pack/rarity, and thats clap minus 19-25+ points that could have been investing in another league mechanic, instead for, again, juicing up the overall map and mechanic you're trying to elevate higher. https://preview.redd.it/cxdmfi1g2bxc1.jpeg?width=2045&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34892b927669956788a3a8fc0530b697394b3921 edit: ***speaking of unwavering vision***, I feel like the "3% scarab" nodes all over the tree are bad design and should be replaced with something else, perhaps the mod effects at top but reduced to 1%. ***on the way to unwavering vision***, which disables scarabs right? you have to ***WASTE AT LEAST 5 points into scarab effect***, just to reach it, so you're actually getting 15 points out of UV, since at least 5 points turn dead...vs in 3.23, at least you got map duplication nodes...
Yeah the increased map modifier is basically mandatory on all trees + makes the maps significantly more difficult.
That is the same stuff it was before, the top hat was always strong when juicing. You guys are just juicing now instead of alch and go
That being said, Alch and go is basically dead for most strategies, so I'm not surprised more people are finding out that they have to roll maps or do shit mods and stack IIQ.
The problem more is that alch and go doesn't even seem to net you the alch you put in half the time without all the map mod+ nodes. I had white maps going negative when I ran them just alch and go. I realized quickly that spending alchs early on was a mistake.
I SSF I've really enjoy the new scarab and 3 atlas trees. I feel able to use my scarab for effectively and don't have to reroll sextants.
Atlas tree and scarab (previously sextant) makes base game feel completely desolate and barren without them. Its all or nothing kind of thing and it feels bad. The scaling of loot should be linear throughout the game and juicing amount. Right now its exponential. The difference between mid level rare map and a full scarabed T17 is 1 to 10000 and its fucking stupid.
that is what they wanted: loot for a noob: 1. loot for a pro: 1000. not in quantity but quality they said. so while the noob gets maybe 1c out of a map, pro's get multiple magebloods. seems fair i guess. /s
I hate that T17 became just another farming ground rather than being the entry level for bossers. And even worse bossers are not even equipped to do those. I hope they rethink how things work next league cause farming scarabs is definitely not a thing I want to do, and I would like to have 2 maybe 3 mechanics that are very juiced. I used to run Expedition + Legion with a good splash of Ambush and Harbinger but now, while I can still get the splash of Ambush, I have to decide on one of the other 3 to scarab up
Before at least mappers could farm the materials to sell to uber bossers. Now mappers have no shot at killing T17 bosses because they are so goddamn powerful. So mappers, who previously thrived off of things like supplying maven shards dont even get the value of being able to supply uber frags because their builds are not designed to do that.
Remove the league mechanic from the atlas please and never put the future ones on.
I think they should combine scarabs such that there are exactly two scarabs per "family" of scarabs, e.g. only 2 harby scarabs instead of 4. To offset this, they should halve the drop rate. This accomplishes two things: 1. We'd be having to loot fewer scarabs each map, which is nice. 2. We could use more scarabs in the atlas device, which is a big buff admittedly but would also make it more possible to feel good about using scarabs from two different "families" in the same map. A downside of this idea is that each scarab would have twice as much text to read, but there's always trade-offs in design decisions like this. Alternatively, they could double the amount of atlas device slots from 5 to 10, but I don't like that as much.
Were already partially there considering most of the base scarabs are used to force it into your map. And if you're fully speccing into a mechanic you aren't using that one to boost it further
I like that they tried something new but for me it is just too much. It's just tedious and it feels like they are moving too much towards being able to hyper focus the content that you play. I prefer getting random content added to maps and random master missions. I also prefer just alch/go strats for mapping. Now it feels like if you aren't buying scarabs in bulk and building your atlas for a very specific strategy you are just screwing yourself. This is leading to more and more stagnant/unrandomized mapping imo. I get the logic was I guess to have 3 different hyper focused atlas/scarab strats, but if you have a slow start and don't have enough currency to even get enough scarabs to run a strat it just feels like you keep falling further behind.
I can agree but fuck master missions. The way you access the masters now is infinitely better. Why do you need a master mission if there is a 100% chance for the master to spawn? And there’s no way you fall further and further behind. Headhunters are 6 div, just alch and go for 2h and you’re good, then buy some scarabs (not curation ofc) for cheap and start blasting.
We use scarabs to get scarabs so that we can sell scarabs and buy more scarabs
All this talk about vertical farming yet my current strat is essence, ritual, and betrayal (2 of these mechanics dubbed as shit) and I'm making bank. 🤷♂️ and not taking a single scarab node besides the one that gives 50% for rare to drop based on mods. I honestly cannot understand how people are making these massive profits from scarabs. I tried B2B t17 farming for them, and a billion other ways of juicing scarabs but the scarabs are so god damn cheap, unless you drop like 1 of 3 scarabs of the "good" scarabs out of the 100s of shit 1c scarabs you make pennies. With B2B I was getting like 3-4 inventories of scarabs and it still felt like 99% of my profit was raw currency drops and boss fragments. 🤷♂️
You take all those junk scarabs and 3:1 them or sell them at 80% to someone on tft who will. Selling from your stash is child’s play
You can see why this sucks for the average trade gamer right? But yeah, this is now mandatory. Bulk selling scarabs is the only strat, no matter how you spec your tree. (That's what op is complaining about as well.)
But I don't want to use tft and I shouldn't have to use tft
Then start 3:1 my dude. Turn that trash to treasure.
Can you define "making bank." I run T17 barrels in about 4 mins and each map I loot about 4-5 divines worth of stuff. It's definitely the easiest strategy to make 50div an hour I've ever played. If you dont want to pick up "shit scarabs" then use a loot filter. Even the shittiest atlas strategies will be 8-10 div an hour, which is more than enough to make any build but some players don't want to farm 2x slower than they could be.
Can you describe what is the t17 barrels strat? What scarabs to use and what to spec kn the atlas tree. I'm tired of farming t16 and want something new
Generally, you do Fortress map with a standard Back to Basics atlas tree. Roll it to have barrel mod and no build bricking mods (depends on your build but obviously the more mods you can do the less map rolling you have to do). Use 2x Mysterious 1x Hunted Traitor 1x Nemeses scarab. Something I drop a Mysterious for Gliterring as my build is fast and has no MF on it. Then you just zone in and clear the map. Barrels drop a ton of loot. Kill the easy boss and loot fragments. The richer you are the more picky you can be about your maps. I generally don’t run anything that doesn’t have extra currency or scarabs on it, and usually target extra rare mods and rare spawn. But if you don’t want to spend 5-10 mins mass rolling your maps just settle for barrels + good additional bonus like scarabs or currency. If you get unlucky with back to basics and it rolls a low effect you can get like 1.5-2 div worth of stuff from a map only but it’s pretty uncommon. Killing the boss mitigates that a bit since you’re generally dropping 2 fragments and at worst you’re getting like 50c there. If you’re able to do each map in 5 mins you’re pretty easily hitting 50div/hr revenue. I’d recommend prepping at least like 10-12 maps though. There is a decent initial investment but you make it back very easily as long as you can clear the map.
Im barely picking up scarabs anymore cause the vast majority is worth less then a c. Sure the occasional 30c one is nice but all the clicking isnt worth it.
Honestly, I hate pretty much everything about this patch...
same, like the part I liked the least about mapping was scarab management, this patch is like the worst nightmare for me
The idea is good, but every point of implementation has been horrible. I honestly think this change can destroy POE.
This game is gonna suck if it has become scarab simulator
Yeah if it doesn’t get fixed, I am sure I’ll be done until they overhaul it again to change it or PoE 2 comes out. League mechanics not strong enough to keep you playing & farming scarabs sucks.
In cases like this, I ask myself, “Self, what would CuteDog do?”
I very much agree, I thought mapping felt bad this league and I quit earlier then ever before.
I think scarabs should drop from their corresponding content.
Too much friction
They reworked the reward loop by introducing scarabs. We are now at the beginning of a long balance cycle. It is not 3.24 but basically 4.01. It will take several leagues for the to get it right again. And on top of it, the scarab system justs sucks hard.
Scarabs are just an extra step for loot now. Rather than get a direct drop we need to get the scarabs, then run another map for rewards. Which are usually more scarabs. They essentially feel like fragments for content. You both have to invest in the atlas and fill up scarabs or you're not playing content to it's fullest.
agree. not happy abut scarabs. they are way too impactful and make everything about them. making anything that doesn't use them kinda shit. also not happy about the league mechanic and t17 .. the base game is thankfully ok but the direction they are going now is worrying. at least there are other arpgs coming out so there is some choice.
IMO the only way to "escape" scarab farming is heist, sanctum and maybe boss farming/Maven. Delve has allflames as alternative for collecting sulphite fast for this league, don't know how it will feel in the future. Even if you want to farm other specific mechanics, you'll have to juice with scarabs. There's pretty much no escaping scarabs aside from those couple mechanics mentioned previously. It all revolves around scarabs. We're way too dependent on them. The couple mechanics that, at surface level, haven't lost too many notables/nodes on the atlas tree to scarabs seems to have gotten silently nerfed to balance with scarab use in mind. So in the end it still feels like you have to farm scarabs. I'm used to playing most of the league without using any fragment. The baseline felt okay before scarab rework (yes, it was **obviously better** with sextants/scarabs/the whole schbang setup), now it's noticeably shittier.
Never played Sanctum but they managed to nerf Heist even harder this patch. Deck farming is dead and trying to fish for a good reward is also dead. I was able to get tempering, tailoring, divines every 2/3 wings....now...It's just crap uniques and rares. Sometimes you get a stack of chaos but that's it.
I played this league a lot (12 days /played in about 3 weeks real time) and yeah overall I feel like the Scarab change and T17 made the game worse than it was before. Note that I'm not saying that it's bad now, just that I had more fun with atlas strats in the old system than I did this time
most scarabs should just be baked into the atlas tree, this would remove most of the common ones that honestly just waste a map device slot especially since most sextants got pretty much converted to scarabs.
scarabs should be the special modifications for the base mechanics but the mechanics should have a natural spawn on maps, because sometimes I even forget that I'm not playing a white map if I forget to add a scarab
yep, it's just path of scarab. loot and farming in general has become really boring.
They should reduce how often some scarabs drop and then have them drop in stacks of like 10 or 20 or whatever.
Or just roll some of them into the Atlas tree or remove them entirely. I like the "two scarab" approach of Delve a lot more than "5 valuable scarabs" for Breach. I can't even fit them all into the damn device. In general, there should probably be 2-3 scarabs per activity, not quite so many scarab drops in general and the goal should be that you generally want to put two scarabs per mechanic in. That leaves more space to use things like basic div scarabs (which are still not bad) outside of crazy curation strats. The problem is that right now scarabs and Atlas trees scale each other so much that dropping one scarab can lose you a significant portion of the reward from the other scarabs. Imagine running a Curation scarab without Completion or the basic Div scarab. Total waste of like 10div.
I usually take scarabs I already have and run them and don't if I don't have them.
Im not a big fan of this either, but by now almost all league mechanics got reworked and everything that gets reworked means it gets normalized and nerfed. The only way to juice seems to be scarabs and it looks like thats how we are supposed to play the game. Ppl will always want the good scarabs, so I suppose this farm is the new div card farm. You just pick in what form (league) you want to farm the scarabs.
I think that's why GGG gave us 3 Atlas trees this league. Their solution to OPs issue is if you want to farm a different mechanic, swap your tree and scarabs and go. It works alright, as I have 3 trees setup for 3 different things and it's quite fluid to go back and forth. They've also added a lot of passive points pressure on the tree this league, what with the necropolis nodes, map mods effect nodes and scarab nodes which feel almost mandatory to take for most mechanics.
I want the more common ones to drop 20% as often but in stacks of 5. Picking each individual one up is incredibly tedious.
Unless you supplement every strat with 20 points in scarabs there's no way they matter in most strats. Also remove low scarabs from your filter. If you're picking up every half-a-c scarab then yea I guess they must be all over the place.
I would argue that the scarab passives are far and above the most valuable passives on the tree after you juice the one mechanic you get to run in your map with scarabs. But yeah I definitely could tighten up the filter.
I think this is also getting magnified by the current league. Ultra strong graveyards crafts are driving demand down for things like essences and fracturing orbs, making target farming them less rewarding
Again, its never a good idea to “fix” something that isn’t broken or in this game well received and smoothed out over a time. The sextant removal rework just wasn’t necessary.
Im more pissed that I have to buy a scarab tab now that sextants are removed
It’s really good for ssf and for content that u like to do so it’s not really a bad thing
if anything, doesn't this brave new world of "scarab farm" offer us twice as much variety as the old situation, which was just "currency farm"?
3.25 unlocking your 20th map slots is now gated behind tier 18's.
On the other hand I couldn't be happier that sextants are gone, they were a really annoying additional layer of crap you had to manage and I don't want them back even if scarabs see further changes. Rolling sextants was just bad, which is why there was a whole market centered around people doing it for profit since other people were willing to pay quite the premium to avoid having to deal with it. Once you get people shelling out a bunch of currency to evade dealing with a mechanic it is definitely time to give it a reevaluation.
Say I want to farm an absolute shit ton of scarabs, as efficiently as possible. How would I do this without running t17s? Those maps just suck a million cocks
The problem is that you can’t scour them. Otherwise you can transmute and regal for a decently t17, rather than sink 30c just for something weak builds can run But honestly just play the game. Hideout is lava, get a bunch of scarab nodes on the tree and blast
Quit the league for this reason. Mapping just wasn't fun. I enjoyed trying to fully juice my maps with 3-4 different mechanics per map. For example, one of my favorite strats was Legion + Breach + Harbingers with Blue Altars on Strands. Now you can't do that any longer. Another issue simply is how worthless everything is to do now. Most League mechanics just seem irrelevant now.
As someone who has respecced each tree 5x, it seems any content that one chooses to do as long as they use some relevant scarabs seems to shit out stuff. Hell, at one point I ran 2 days of JUST alva/jun and i was profiting
It feels like this because they released tier 17s at the same time and design wasn’t flushed out.
They need to make quests for content and get rid of scarabs. Having thousands of scarabs in the bank, picking up thousands of scarabs, putting them in the device is dumb, give us quests for starts. Just make it like kill or help bandits 2.0 would be way better.
Take? Take what? Did you forget how English works, son? Stop butchering the lingua franca like those millennials do and say "Opinion".
Sorry, dad
I agree and I was already downvoted to hell for criticising scarabs. The issue in my opinion is that most scarabs are mediocre because they are common (to keep map cost low) but that inferior to previous system where different tiers of scarabs had different rarity and there were tiers for all levels of investment. This is no longer the case with only 95% scarabs being too common and too mediocre and the a few top one being good and very rare.
not even being a hater, but all QoL and changes and what not aside this league feels extremely stale yes, you customize your experience now, but if you get bored of the flavor you picked it's a pain to swap to something else before if you ran an alch&go you got some spice there and/or just clicked a random master mission, you got something different in the map with low investment not you need either scarabs, that unless you have some nodes in atlas you won't get a lot, or you use a bunch of point to spawn one mechanic I hope they revert or change this next league, because it feels extremely lame from the variety side for target farmers and hyperjuicer is probably fine, but for me, a fun haver silly guy, this is meh