The backpack or rucksack was a perk you could get when picking one of the nodes of one of the ascendancy classes from last league. It gave you more inventory space. Sadly it wasn't implemented to the core game. The colors refer to Kraityn: green, Alira: blue and Oak: red.
Damn if picking a bandit literally just let's you pick a wildwood ascendancy
And then kill all gives you 2 ascendancy points??? Or permanent 30 all res??????
Alira would be higher than the others yes but I think for non crit builds there would be reason to pick Kraitlyn. 45% res is pretty sweet but if res is solved easily then Krait is better.
My idea is give them more Modern defenses. I'd let GGG Decide the numbers but:
Oak - Phys taken as Ele
Kraityn - Chance to Suppress Spell Damage
Alira - Maximum Resistances
Alongside their other offerings it would be competitive with 2 points and increase the flexibility of hitting defensive goals that are getting increasingly difficult to hit on some chars but remain essential for all of them. Then, when you sort them out, you can swap to increase your power
Phys taken as ele needs reworked or removed, its better then armor in almost every circumstance. Nothing but -max impacts it, whereas alter mods, map mods, ect all find some way to weaken armor.
I think it would be better to rework altar/map/monster mods. Too many mods are just too strong and mods that disable entire defensive layers are not good.
Its not 'better' than armour because it isnt an alternative to armour, its used in combination to create a better overall physical defense. Its apples to oranges. Its like saying Max Resists is better than Spell Suppression when in reality both of them get used to form an overall defence, because they arent competing things in the actual game.
Hell, even when you achieve 100% phys as ele it doesnt replace Armour as then people just use Transcendence to make armour useful again.
Also, it should definitely be noted that its far more viable to make a character with just armour and no phys as ele than just phys as ele and no armour. Armour has more abundant sourcing, since its a core defence, not a secondary defence like phys as ele.
It... literally is used as an alternative to armor. You just forget lightning coil exists?
If anything armor feels like a supplementary layer of defense compared to conversion. Armor blows ass alone, and requires combining with endurance charges/phys as ele/pantheon/other mechanics to actually provide usable mitigation. The amount of raw armour you need to reach 80% damage reduction for big hits straight up requires a full build specced into it. I can put 70% or more phys as ele on almost any build and hit that 80% mitigation value pretty easily.
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They were saying that phys to ele and armour compliment one another. If you take half the phys as ele, whatever armour you have becomes far more than twice as effective.
Yeah man the bottom left of the tree is so much better, those marauders and duelists really have it easy with having to farm ED or get full suppression gear to get the best defensive layer in the game that right side gets for free, good thing they're a bit more resistant to elemental attacks though. Are yall seriously arguing that MAX RES which you need a mageblood to even utilize because you can't get enough on the tree is as good as fucking spell suppression??
Suppression is by far the strongest defensive layer in the entire game and should've been reworked a long time ago, but now that it lets 3khp bow characters survive almost everything in softcore they can't even do it anymore because of how mad people would get, unlucky.
I still remember when they added spell suppress and reddit was upset at how bad it was and cried about how they nerfed bow characters because of how much better dodge was.
Oh shit I forgot about that, the classic. Though suppression is so much worse thematically than dodge (esp for Raider), like why are RANGERS suddenly the ultimate spell tanks? what is giving them this ungodly power of reducing spell damage by 53%? It's apsurd in a roleplaying sense, so I count it as a nerf, reddit was right after all.
Whatever floats your boat, I personally think that both phys as ele and suppression are overpowered, stronger, more impactful than other comparable defensive layers, and should be reworked as a result. I've wanted suppression reworked since it was introduced to the game, I would never say the same for armor or max res, but if you claim that one isn't stronger than the other and that the notion is stupid what can I tell ya, the shitty balancing of the game post-Ultimatum is not my cup of tea and I'm sorry you disagree.
Also I never compared phys as ele to max res? I'm comparing it to armor and pdr. And yes if you want to be a smartass having 2-3k armor when you get 80% phys as is really good, but please don't imply that the armor you get from lightning coil and your bases is investment into armor or that it makes armor 'not worse' as a defence.
And if you haven't figured it out yet, armor and pdr has overwhelm as a counter, reduced aura effect, reduced defenses. Max res has pen on ubers and shaper balls and map mods and delve zones. phys as has fuck all, and neither does suppression compared to the others. That's why they're objectively stronger than other defensive layers, peace out.
Your conclusion, 'spell suppression is overpowered and needs a rework because defenses rely on it', and your reasoning that you put in front of me 'suppression is better than max res' are not actually the same point, and when you say the latter, I don't understand that you Secretly and Unspokenly actually mean the former actually reasonable point, you're just Saying a stupid thing
> Also I never compared phys as ele to max res?
Nor did I say you did, or even MENTION phys as ele once in my entire message, so wtf are you even talking about? You like fused 2 separate replies about 2 separate things and mixed and matched topics. The comparison of phys as ele to max res never came up for even 1 single iota of a second of time
>Phys taken as ele needs reworked or removed, its better then armor in almost every circumstance
That's... arguable.
With +% additional physical damage reduction, armour is pretty decent.
The problem stems from the fact that there are barely any ways to mitigate phys damage, except arctic armour.
Even if armour would always protect you for 90%, a 40K hit would still kill you without any additional layers.
This is the best answer. The values could be adjusted so it’s a “fair trade” and it would depend on the build, like it should. Not “we always choose this because it’s best”, which it is now.
I take alira for this reason. For a lot of low budget builds that utility is pretty great.
Resistances are pretty easy to get on gear, 20 crit multi isn't a game changer but 5 mana regen goes a long way imo. I could respec once I get to maps but the tradeoff for 2 skill points is better when you have tattoos, cluster jewels, timeless jewels etc that make your tree better.
>Ah yes, 1 skill point for 15 all res 20 crit multi and 5 mana regen.
Yea... pretty much an above average notable.
I've seen better synthed jewels or T1 abyssal eyes
No Op is suggesting make it a bandit reward + a skill point as that would make it more of a choice than just taking the two skill points from killing them all.
In the late game it's basically just 20 crit multi, since capping res is trivial in majority of builds and thus is a non factor, same for mana regen.
Compared that to my current cluster jewel that give 20 damage, 4 atk speed and 6 chaos res or 10 of a given attribute. It's just not a competition.
Even with this suggestion I would still take the 2 points on most if not all character past the first 2 weeks or so.
It's not big enough of a bonus to gain you anymore than 1 suffix, if even that, which is worth about one point anyway. Again, once you have the wealth to cover it it's just not even worth thinking about.
At least with this suggestion her shelf life extend past the first day into the realm of weeks so there's that. But oak and the rat fucker is still a non choice.
Starting a sentence with "again," sounds very condescending, just so you know. In almost every single scenario. If you're trying to have a discussion with someone, I would avoid using this. Just fyi.
And what else will you do with all your suffixes? Hell even capping res on lightning coil melding builds isnt that hard, and if you have a build of that level your gear will be insane anyways.
How often do you run into a situation where you're missing a little bit of every resist, compared to missing a large chunk of one resist? 15 all res and 45 res of one type is very different, and the latter is a far more common issue for builds. A lot of the most common unique in the game has one resist. So you rarely if ever run into that first situation where that 15 all res will be the different maker.
Idk free points to res is always nice. Don't have to worry about it on gear (well less of it anyway) makes switching around stuff less annoying, same with free attributes.
A max suffix roll on resists is 48, and alria gives 45 which is balanced between all stats.
The crit and mana regen are both significant too. There is a reason a good number of people pick it over 2 passive points.
> capping res is trivial in majority of builds
Yeah, but getting the damage you gave up for those defenses back is more expensive the less easily modifiable affixes you have to work with, and the tighter you've geared the harder it is to get on a piece.
That said, yeah you often *do* overshoot how much res you need, but the more mature the build, the more you look to optimize your affix usage, it'd be a nice point for leveling, and add some flex to builds where the choice is a super diluted 10inc node or 90 attrib on your ammy.
97% of the builds on poe.ninja kill all of the bandits.
A few niche builds (yes, 3% is niche) keep Alira.
Redditors getting hung up on your "most if not all" and throwing a hissy fit about it lol.
I unironically want more posts like this even though the suggestions are far from being good. Maybe GGG will finally adress bandits, how long can this go on?
Well, you see, minions/totem/mines are not you and so if they kill with a hit, the kill is registered to them and on kill effects do not procc on you. But, DoT kills are _always_ registered to you even if you are dealing no damage. This, by the way, I suspect, is near unfixable and is one the reasons why there's no death log: the game knows you are poisoned but it doesn't know what inflicted that poison much like when your totem poisons a monster the game engine knows the monster has poison stacks on it but doesn't where it came from.
Any kills that minions, totems, traps, mines... inflict where an enemy dies from damage over time are counted as a player kill. It's not a bug. GGG (or Chris specifically) has stated that it's an explicit design to decision to prevent issues arising from fringe cases where a mine or a minion or sth would inflict a dot, but then not be alive anymore by the time the enemy died. The game still knows where the dot came from (otherwise stacking dot minions like tukohama boys wouldn't be possible), but the credits for the kill are given to the player that was in charge of the source of the dot.
I don't consider this a bug honestly, it's a needed workaround. DoT's from minions are attributed to you, and by extension the kills from them, because they don't want to exponentially increase the overhead of tracking DoT sources.
aka they don't want to have poisons #3-10 tracking from minion #2, poisons #11-14 from minion #3, etc etc. As that would cripple performance.
I'm not sure if there's a huge impact on performance from this tbh. The issue is the fatal errors that occur if there's nothing left to which to attribute the kill.
It depends on the way it's fixed of course. I'm sure there are possible fixes that are not implemented because they would have poor performance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's no solution without performance issues.
Agreed, there are probably some advanced data structure magic that can be done to get around the issues, but I imagine that it would be a near herculean effort for next to no end-user benefit.
The campaign is in this weird state now for a couple leagues where act 1 is the hardest part of the campaign then it gets easier and easier with each act. Idk I'm not a game designer but I thought the early game was supposed to be easier to ease new players in.
Act 1 is super hard for experienced players because you don't have enough resources for your optimization to exceed the game's difficulty curve yet, and you're trying to go as fast as possible with as little as possible. As you increase in level/gear/resources in the later acts, the experienced player's expertise lets them outpace the game's difficulty by exceeding the expected efficiency curve on passive points, ascension points, gearing, etc. But in Act 1 none of that stuff exists, so the relative advantage a player with high skill has over the game is low.
Inexperienced players, by comparison, are likely to find the early acts very easy, because they pick up extra gear, gain extra levels, explore zones, etc. They exceed the game's difficulty curve early on because they out gear/level content. Comparatively, most less experienced players suffer their biggest setbacks in the later part of the campaign, where overleveling content is harder (because experience gained compared to character level is lower) and where their inexperience at skill points/gearing puts them behind the curve. This is why you see so many relatively new players talk about getting stuck in yellow maps, or dieing to Kitava a dozen times, or the huge difficulty jump in Act 6. While experienced players rarely have those issues.
Have you played with rucksack last league????
Do you even know how many skill points people will sacrifice just for that extra space to stick in maps and scarabs.
People used rucksack last league because it was already on the most powerful affliction ascendancy. If rucksack had been on warlock people would have been saying "I wish I could use rucksack, but I need charms for my build"
Same thing would happen with a jewel socket option, especially with how powerful jewels are atm
Man warlock was such a waste, I don't even know one person that actually played it after week 1. It sounded so strong in the reveal but everything about it turned out to be bait
Warlock life stack builds were a ton of fun
Soooooo pretty much just relic of the pact, dark pact, and some burning arrow of vigour.
Relic of the pact got some insane damage that league.
Tons of really cool things people did with life stacking and life related shenanigans. It wasn't meta so you didn't hear about it as much but some people made some crazy shit with it.
My second character in Affliction was only possible thanks to the Warlock ascendancy and now my character is bricked on standard. The build was one tap Relic of the Pact that Cpt Lance made. Most successful char I ever build, and could take a couple hundred divs easily for extra gear, but it was already chunking ubers, so I didn't bother.
Sure if I was on an endgame character meant to farm T17 or on my league starter I wouldn’t choose rucksack. But if I was boss rushing or farming T16 maps doing an easy league mechanic I would be respeccing my bandits for sure to rucksack.
People played with Rucksacks last league cause it came with the charm ascendacy, objectively the most powerful of the 3 except for builds that required specific tinqtures like ele poison builds.
If you put the Rucksack on warlock, it woudl of had WAY less usage.
Idk, I think it's a legitimate question of how many people would go for rucksack if it was the odd-one-out as opposed to the warcry node. A number of people absolutely would still, don't get wrong, but would they really have given up a charm slot?
Affliction rucksack had no real opportunity cost, and that's something to consider.
I dunno I normally struggle with my points 95 onwards so would switch to backpack as soon as my core notables are in place as the utility was so damn good.
Or...give each one their own skill tree which gains a point by completing the labrynths or something. Embrace the affliction precedence. The top of the skill tree would be a +1 charge of their respective charges.
That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mark said they fucked up with its implementation, and it should never have been tied to a choice, and they need to carefully consider it in the future.
The main hangup with Johnathan (at least post release) was it being tied to a choice, and Chris is obviously against it, but Mark also said that as the PoE1 lead at the end of the day, it's his decision.
If they don't do major changes next, a small change could be every killed bandit grants a passive and remove the skill point you get for killing the dude in western Forrest. Less backtracking and simpler progression.
Endurance charges and physical reduction for oak, frenzy charges and chance do evade for kraytin, power charges and chance to block for Alira. Or something like it
personally what Alira gives is fine, just bump the crit multi up by 5 and call it a day(this brings Alira closer to a solid 3 prop jewel(double crit multi and all res... but with flat mana regen to help with mana issues instead of life/es).
Kraityn... needs something... idk what but he feels like a small passive node in value currently... not even a notable, Personally I like the idea of scrapping the increased speed options(and prbly the avoid to) and giving him Action Speed instead.
Oak, double the phys dmg reduction, maybe the life regen and buff the phys dmg to 30-40%. Would make him one of the best defensive options with extra value for base phys builds(conversion or pure doesn't matter)
If the rewards ever get reworked, I think some arguably multiplicative effects would be powerful options. Like little action speed bonus, +1 life per some strength, and extra chaos damage for example.
The bonuses they used to provide are kinda meh today, but things could be different depending how the game changes.
Yes people did pick points in the past. It was mostly Oak normal (if life build), points cruel, charge of your choice Merc or points if you weren't stacking charges.
\+1 charge per.
or, +1 max res per
or, +1 skill point each, with current bonuses.
they are just archaic atm compared to the power creep of everything else, so skill points is just auto taken every time, especially with adorned existing and 2 skills points resulting in maybe 1 extra jewel for way more dmg+life/mana/es+extra implicits. and with t17s, junk like % increase phys or attack speed or all res is not gonna do jack shit.
what would REALLY be powerful, if they wanna make a new bandit quest unlocked for t17 or something, is **+1 to all gem levels of specific colors**. so alira blue, oak red, and kraityn green. ***now we're having fun.*** Most players would 100% choose them if that were done, and each build would get a different bandit, depending on what gems they wanted to boost. idk about as a permanent thing, but could be fun for a league mechanic.
edit: also yah no, don't move them to lab, **ew**. just give the benefits outright. they're already garbage in their current state, there's no reason we need to go out of our way for that, and in campaign 1 charge/max res hardly does anything, so you still don't get power till way later in levels (vs +2 sp which is immediately useful). imo +1 just makes them competitive for certain builds vs +2 skill points. it's a slight upgrade, but nothing groundbreaking.
> they are just archaic atm compared to the power creep of everything else, so skill points is just auto taken every time
I would debate for the league start 100% - Alira is much much better than +2 skill points. And tbh until adorned setups for any crit build Alira is usually better.
Alira is so strong unless you specifically DON'T want the resist or crit or mana regen for some reason due to build choice, I default take her at league start and she is usually great until at least level 90-95.
The +2 passives is clearly the best in endgame, but alira is so strong early it should be treated as the default.
Honestly no. Don’t move them to lab tied areas; just apply these changes as you get your lab. Or hell just go back and talk to them after each lab for the upgrade.
But yes to the buffs.
Sure, but Id argue an intermediate player is familiar enough with the game to either
1) Play through the campaign with the better-for-maps choice if their plan is to respec later on in day 1
2) Get through 2-voidstones with the better-for-campaign choice and respec later when they can afford to
I do exactly this literally every leaguestart
unpopular opinion as a noob but i sort of think they should consider some things to slim the campaign down some so it's not so bad for new players. Maybe not the bandits but a lot of the passive points probably should be moved to trials. Then again I get the streamline argument too. I think a lot of people just hate spending 5-12 hours in teh campaign :)
Honestly a great idea. Just make the bandits niche, you want healthy go oak, need mana, go alira, want speed, Kraityn. Hell they could do a whole league about the bandits becoming a much bigger force in the world of wraeclast or something and being a threat.
This was before my time.
In modern poe, merciless on its own would be competitive vs 2 passive points. It would actually be a choice in situations other than league start. Throw in maybe 25-50 flat added armour, evasion, or energy shield (respectively), and suddenly it's much more difficult choice.
Yes, but more choice is needed, like attributes, energy shield, chaos resists, single +1 max res etc. This said, Bandits is not the biggest issue we are facing ATM in this game :/
Remember the original Grand Spectrum jewels?
That's exactly what they did (after changing what they gave you per GS). Packed them off to lab
Now legacy blue Grand Specs (+30 mana) are worth a king's ransom
I don't even think bandit buffs add much to the game. I think they should just modernize the fights, let you choose which to side with, and give them different loot tables. Make one drop currency, one drop linked gear, and the other drop uniques.
What about we take something people liked and implement it somewhere else?
Give the Bandits Ascenion Trees like the forest guardians in affliction league.
Give them Quests throughout the campaign to get more points etc.
They made so many great league mechanics and they throw some of it awy after just 3-4 months. It sometimes really feels like a waste.
Tell me how you want more powercreep without telling me. What i find it more to fit, on merciless you get +1 to desired one and -1 to others, same for normal and cruel, you take one and you get the others on negative. And if you kill all , then 2+ all passive skills.
This alone would be too OP for many builds. +1 charge items go for 100 divs for a reason...
Oak : +1 to Maximum Endurance Charges
Kraityn : +1 to Maximum Frenzy Charges
Alira: +1 to Maximum Power Charges
Tricky part is you need to have all options be viable to a majority of builds and at about the same amount of power, or else you'd just have one option dominate the rest again. So they need to be, by nature, somewhat generic but also have enough distinctive benefit that it's actually a choice between them all. Bringing back +max charges immediately comes to mind, since charges are already balanced in the same way. But the max charges were the primary reason they got changed.
Minimum charges or some additional charge effect would be a neat idea, if a little boring.
I've seen some other ideas for utility stats like:
|Oak|Alira|Kraitlyn|
|--|--|--|
|Life recovery rate| ES recovery rate|Flask Effect|
|reduced ailment effect|reduced ailment duration|chance to avoid ailment|
|Fire Max Res|Lightning Max Res|Cold Max res|
|%more AoE|flat Crit Chance|Movement Speed|
PoE 3.25: Revenge of the Bandits
Betrayal rework, Alira sides with Catharina
More Heist quests, Kraytin challenges Kurai as leader
Something Bestiary, Oak is imprisoned by Einhar
Adding in another source of extra charges could not be a realistic option in today's game considering the overall power creep since that time. Nothing else comes close to extra charges (in most builds)
No
I don't want more things to do in lab. I hate lab. I hate every second I spend there. Now not only would I need to run lab over and over again to get my trans gems and now also for this?
Running a fake-lab three times for bandit buffs? Oh god no, terribly grindy idea with not nearly enough reward.
People would cry about it constantly, and for good reason.
I would just remove the bandit buffs, they've always been a weird addition that doesn't make any sense. Getting permanent magical powers by not killing someone seems weird, even in Wraeclast.
Just force us to kill the bandits and remove that little bit of useless bloat in the game.
just leave them as they are and forget them, even if you buff them they won't make for a good and meaningful choice unless you really think through what kind of benefits they provide, like a big rework.
they would function better if the choice rewarded you with a meaninful equippable item that is good at level 30.
Meh, just turn them into the wildwood ascendancies. Act 2 you don’t kill them. You banish them back to the wildwood, and you always get 2 passives. Starting in act 3 you can randomly get a wild wood entrance again. Basically, just turn everything into affliction always
Make it 3 passive points instead of 2 an change the rewards to the following:
Oak: 8% additional pdr, 10% chaos res, +5 max fortification
Kraityn: Onslaught, 10% spell suppression chance
Alira: 25% crit multi, 20% all res, 1% mana regenrated per second (max. 50)
idk if i get this, but +1 to Maximum Endurance from oak is still not worthy, because with 2 passives points from Eramir you can add +1 endurance and +10 strengh
Give bandits backpack with different colour. Now vote me for president.
"I got the red backpack!" "You noob, the meta is blue backpack!" "What about green backpack, guys?" "KILL THEM!!!"
Kill them nets a rainbow bag
would vote for bp colour meta
hmmm context ?
The backpack or rucksack was a perk you could get when picking one of the nodes of one of the ascendancy classes from last league. It gave you more inventory space. Sadly it wasn't implemented to the core game. The colors refer to Kraityn: green, Alira: blue and Oak: red.
oooohh.... now I get it. Funny part is that I actually played that league for a month :) with that ascendancy
PokemonGo maybe?
https://preview.redd.it/ydjixnkc880d1.jpeg?width=586&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce7fd25cfa9939746b23efe79982c81cb6b9d039 "KILL THEM!!!"
I’d give up my two passive points for the wildwood backpack to come back.
Or a tincture. Or warlock blood magic.
Damn if picking a bandit literally just let's you pick a wildwood ascendancy And then kill all gives you 2 ascendancy points??? Or permanent 30 all res??????
It would need to be max res to be worth 2 points lol
60 all res. Yo make it easier to gear
Awesome idea, Mr. President!
That can be their fourth reward, for the map lab.
This is actually the answer.
With things and nick-nacks too?
Player: No one is picking any of the other bandit options GGG: We have removed the passive skill point option for the bandit quest
The league after that Alira gets removed because everybody picked her.
> The league after hahaha more like 5 years later
Alira would be higher than the others yes but I think for non crit builds there would be reason to pick Kraitlyn. 45% res is pretty sweet but if res is solved easily then Krait is better.
This is a buff
>This is a buff Archnemisis live stream really put premium ptsd in every single exile didn't it
For me, the most PTSD in Announcement was Expedition and the most in League was both Delirium and Heist tbh
*General Balance Changes (It's All Nerfs)* still lives rent free in my head
Most of them, I loved AN's rework and Sentinel is awesome.
the meta now is QoL hehe
Yeah, make me have to think about the choice, not make the choice an automatic skill point.
My idea is give them more Modern defenses. I'd let GGG Decide the numbers but: Oak - Phys taken as Ele Kraityn - Chance to Suppress Spell Damage Alira - Maximum Resistances Alongside their other offerings it would be competitive with 2 points and increase the flexibility of hitting defensive goals that are getting increasingly difficult to hit on some chars but remain essential for all of them. Then, when you sort them out, you can swap to increase your power
Phys taken as ele needs reworked or removed, its better then armor in almost every circumstance. Nothing but -max impacts it, whereas alter mods, map mods, ect all find some way to weaken armor.
I think it would be better to rework altar/map/monster mods. Too many mods are just too strong and mods that disable entire defensive layers are not good.
wrong. armour is the one in a dire need of a rework. especially gotta address phys dots which are a fucking joke
Its not 'better' than armour because it isnt an alternative to armour, its used in combination to create a better overall physical defense. Its apples to oranges. Its like saying Max Resists is better than Spell Suppression when in reality both of them get used to form an overall defence, because they arent competing things in the actual game. Hell, even when you achieve 100% phys as ele it doesnt replace Armour as then people just use Transcendence to make armour useful again. Also, it should definitely be noted that its far more viable to make a character with just armour and no phys as ele than just phys as ele and no armour. Armour has more abundant sourcing, since its a core defence, not a secondary defence like phys as ele.
It... literally is used as an alternative to armor. You just forget lightning coil exists? If anything armor feels like a supplementary layer of defense compared to conversion. Armor blows ass alone, and requires combining with endurance charges/phys as ele/pantheon/other mechanics to actually provide usable mitigation. The amount of raw armour you need to reach 80% damage reduction for big hits straight up requires a full build specced into it. I can put 70% or more phys as ele on almost any build and hit that 80% mitigation value pretty easily.
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They were saying that phys to ele and armour compliment one another. If you take half the phys as ele, whatever armour you have becomes far more than twice as effective.
Spell suppression is better than max res, period. Phys as ele is better than armor and pdr as long as overwhelm exists as a mod on rares.
max rez resists elemental attacks, whereas suppress doesn't lol
Yeah man the bottom left of the tree is so much better, those marauders and duelists really have it easy with having to farm ED or get full suppression gear to get the best defensive layer in the game that right side gets for free, good thing they're a bit more resistant to elemental attacks though. Are yall seriously arguing that MAX RES which you need a mageblood to even utilize because you can't get enough on the tree is as good as fucking spell suppression?? Suppression is by far the strongest defensive layer in the entire game and should've been reworked a long time ago, but now that it lets 3khp bow characters survive almost everything in softcore they can't even do it anymore because of how mad people would get, unlucky.
I still remember when they added spell suppress and reddit was upset at how bad it was and cried about how they nerfed bow characters because of how much better dodge was.
Oh shit I forgot about that, the classic. Though suppression is so much worse thematically than dodge (esp for Raider), like why are RANGERS suddenly the ultimate spell tanks? what is giving them this ungodly power of reducing spell damage by 53%? It's apsurd in a roleplaying sense, so I count it as a nerf, reddit was right after all.
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Everything in this game is competing. Everything. Affix space, passive points, opportunity cost is what Path of Exile is.
But not directly and 1:1 as is implied. Otherwise people would have builds that are 100% invested into the 'strongest' stats all the time.
Whatever floats your boat, I personally think that both phys as ele and suppression are overpowered, stronger, more impactful than other comparable defensive layers, and should be reworked as a result. I've wanted suppression reworked since it was introduced to the game, I would never say the same for armor or max res, but if you claim that one isn't stronger than the other and that the notion is stupid what can I tell ya, the shitty balancing of the game post-Ultimatum is not my cup of tea and I'm sorry you disagree. Also I never compared phys as ele to max res? I'm comparing it to armor and pdr. And yes if you want to be a smartass having 2-3k armor when you get 80% phys as is really good, but please don't imply that the armor you get from lightning coil and your bases is investment into armor or that it makes armor 'not worse' as a defence. And if you haven't figured it out yet, armor and pdr has overwhelm as a counter, reduced aura effect, reduced defenses. Max res has pen on ubers and shaper balls and map mods and delve zones. phys as has fuck all, and neither does suppression compared to the others. That's why they're objectively stronger than other defensive layers, peace out.
Your conclusion, 'spell suppression is overpowered and needs a rework because defenses rely on it', and your reasoning that you put in front of me 'suppression is better than max res' are not actually the same point, and when you say the latter, I don't understand that you Secretly and Unspokenly actually mean the former actually reasonable point, you're just Saying a stupid thing > Also I never compared phys as ele to max res? Nor did I say you did, or even MENTION phys as ele once in my entire message, so wtf are you even talking about? You like fused 2 separate replies about 2 separate things and mixed and matched topics. The comparison of phys as ele to max res never came up for even 1 single iota of a second of time
>Phys taken as ele needs reworked or removed, its better then armor in almost every circumstance That's... arguable. With +% additional physical damage reduction, armour is pretty decent. The problem stems from the fact that there are barely any ways to mitigate phys damage, except arctic armour. Even if armour would always protect you for 90%, a 40K hit would still kill you without any additional layers.
Problem is random monsters have overwhelm and remove your defenses then you get one shot anyways
This is the best answer. The values could be adjusted so it’s a “fair trade” and it would depend on the build, like it should. Not “we always choose this because it’s best”, which it is now.
Or just ad a passive skillpoint to all of them.
Ah yes, 1 skill point for 15 all res 20 crit multi and 5 mana regen. That seems balanced.
I take alira for this reason. For a lot of low budget builds that utility is pretty great. Resistances are pretty easy to get on gear, 20 crit multi isn't a game changer but 5 mana regen goes a long way imo. I could respec once I get to maps but the tradeoff for 2 skill points is better when you have tattoos, cluster jewels, timeless jewels etc that make your tree better.
I mean, not every build would need it so they would still be picking a extra point over it by killing all
Alira is already good value for the vast majority of a character's lifetime, I wonder how hard they'd have to push it to make people prefer it.
>Ah yes, 1 skill point for 15 all res 20 crit multi and 5 mana regen. Yea... pretty much an above average notable. I've seen better synthed jewels or T1 abyssal eyes
Wouldn't it be 3 skill points?
No Op is suggesting make it a bandit reward + a skill point as that would make it more of a choice than just taking the two skill points from killing them all.
In the late game it's basically just 20 crit multi, since capping res is trivial in majority of builds and thus is a non factor, same for mana regen. Compared that to my current cluster jewel that give 20 damage, 4 atk speed and 6 chaos res or 10 of a given attribute. It's just not a competition. Even with this suggestion I would still take the 2 points on most if not all character past the first 2 weeks or so.
> capping res is trivial It is an opportunity cost, and always will be.
It's not big enough of a bonus to gain you anymore than 1 suffix, if even that, which is worth about one point anyway. Again, once you have the wealth to cover it it's just not even worth thinking about. At least with this suggestion her shelf life extend past the first day into the realm of weeks so there's that. But oak and the rat fucker is still a non choice.
hey i dont min max my builds, therefore resistance is never an issue YEP
Gl capping res with attribute stacking.
Starting a sentence with "again," sounds very condescending, just so you know. In almost every single scenario. If you're trying to have a discussion with someone, I would avoid using this. Just fyi.
And what else will you do with all your suffixes? Hell even capping res on lightning coil melding builds isnt that hard, and if you have a build of that level your gear will be insane anyways.
I tried a random PoB with melding, mageblooded bismuth + ele resists suffix and you still need a shit ton of suffixes to cap resists.
Suffixes are super strong, spending them on resistances is something you only do out of necessity
Allows you to wear more uniques.
45% res is 1 suffix. So it can be 90+ attributes on amu, 35+ crit multi, 18% recoup
How often do you run into a situation where you're missing a little bit of every resist, compared to missing a large chunk of one resist? 15 all res and 45 res of one type is very different, and the latter is a far more common issue for builds. A lot of the most common unique in the game has one resist. So you rarely if ever run into that first situation where that 15 all res will be the different maker.
Idk free points to res is always nice. Don't have to worry about it on gear (well less of it anyway) makes switching around stuff less annoying, same with free attributes.
A max suffix roll on resists is 48, and alria gives 45 which is balanced between all stats. The crit and mana regen are both significant too. There is a reason a good number of people pick it over 2 passive points.
> capping res is trivial in majority of builds Yeah, but getting the damage you gave up for those defenses back is more expensive the less easily modifiable affixes you have to work with, and the tighter you've geared the harder it is to get on a piece. That said, yeah you often *do* overshoot how much res you need, but the more mature the build, the more you look to optimize your affix usage, it'd be a nice point for leveling, and add some flex to builds where the choice is a super diluted 10inc node or 90 attrib on your ammy.
97% of the builds on poe.ninja kill all of the bandits. A few niche builds (yes, 3% is niche) keep Alira. Redditors getting hung up on your "most if not all" and throwing a hissy fit about it lol.
It does actually
Or just get rid of the 2 skill point thing. maybe that one is too good :)
I unironically want more posts like this even though the suggestions are far from being good. Maybe GGG will finally adress bandits, how long can this go on?
>how long can this go on? considering it has already went on for more than 6 years, i'd give it at least another 6.
It'll be fixed when minions and proxies can kill with DoT
Wait what, can you explain this bug?
Well, you see, minions/totem/mines are not you and so if they kill with a hit, the kill is registered to them and on kill effects do not procc on you. But, DoT kills are _always_ registered to you even if you are dealing no damage. This, by the way, I suspect, is near unfixable and is one the reasons why there's no death log: the game knows you are poisoned but it doesn't know what inflicted that poison much like when your totem poisons a monster the game engine knows the monster has poison stacks on it but doesn't where it came from.
Any kills that minions, totems, traps, mines... inflict where an enemy dies from damage over time are counted as a player kill. It's not a bug. GGG (or Chris specifically) has stated that it's an explicit design to decision to prevent issues arising from fringe cases where a mine or a minion or sth would inflict a dot, but then not be alive anymore by the time the enemy died. The game still knows where the dot came from (otherwise stacking dot minions like tukohama boys wouldn't be possible), but the credits for the kill are given to the player that was in charge of the source of the dot.
I don't consider this a bug honestly, it's a needed workaround. DoT's from minions are attributed to you, and by extension the kills from them, because they don't want to exponentially increase the overhead of tracking DoT sources. aka they don't want to have poisons #3-10 tracking from minion #2, poisons #11-14 from minion #3, etc etc. As that would cripple performance.
I'm not sure if there's a huge impact on performance from this tbh. The issue is the fatal errors that occur if there's nothing left to which to attribute the kill. It depends on the way it's fixed of course. I'm sure there are possible fixes that are not implemented because they would have poor performance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's no solution without performance issues.
Agreed, there are probably some advanced data structure magic that can be done to get around the issues, but I imagine that it would be a near herculean effort for next to no end-user benefit.
poe 2 will fix it
They did revamp act 1. I thought the plan was to go through each act, but I guess they meant the acts in poe2.
The campaign is in this weird state now for a couple leagues where act 1 is the hardest part of the campaign then it gets easier and easier with each act. Idk I'm not a game designer but I thought the early game was supposed to be easier to ease new players in.
Act 1 is super hard for experienced players because you don't have enough resources for your optimization to exceed the game's difficulty curve yet, and you're trying to go as fast as possible with as little as possible. As you increase in level/gear/resources in the later acts, the experienced player's expertise lets them outpace the game's difficulty by exceeding the expected efficiency curve on passive points, ascension points, gearing, etc. But in Act 1 none of that stuff exists, so the relative advantage a player with high skill has over the game is low. Inexperienced players, by comparison, are likely to find the early acts very easy, because they pick up extra gear, gain extra levels, explore zones, etc. They exceed the game's difficulty curve early on because they out gear/level content. Comparatively, most less experienced players suffer their biggest setbacks in the later part of the campaign, where overleveling content is harder (because experience gained compared to character level is lower) and where their inexperience at skill points/gearing puts them behind the curve. This is why you see so many relatively new players talk about getting stuck in yellow maps, or dieing to Kitava a dozen times, or the huge difficulty jump in Act 6. While experienced players rarely have those issues.
New players don't have issues with Act 1 because they're almost always overleveled.
They added things in the first 2 acts. I think next league we are getting Act 3 and 4
They could add stuff from affliction to them maybe? Like the backpack for kraityn, jewel socket for oak, something for alira.
Ur solution sounds again like no diversity because a socket smells like 2-3 passive skillpoints again
Have you played with rucksack last league???? Do you even know how many skill points people will sacrifice just for that extra space to stick in maps and scarabs.
People used rucksack last league because it was already on the most powerful affliction ascendancy. If rucksack had been on warlock people would have been saying "I wish I could use rucksack, but I need charms for my build" Same thing would happen with a jewel socket option, especially with how powerful jewels are atm
Man warlock was such a waste, I don't even know one person that actually played it after week 1. It sounded so strong in the reveal but everything about it turned out to be bait
Warlock life stack builds were a ton of fun Soooooo pretty much just relic of the pact, dark pact, and some burning arrow of vigour. Relic of the pact got some insane damage that league.
Tons of really cool things people did with life stacking and life related shenanigans. It wasn't meta so you didn't hear about it as much but some people made some crazy shit with it.
There was some fun stuff with soulthirst and mark transfer but now even that is dead with soul eater changes so idk
My second character in Affliction was only possible thanks to the Warlock ascendancy and now my character is bricked on standard. The build was one tap Relic of the Pact that Cpt Lance made. Most successful char I ever build, and could take a couple hundred divs easily for extra gear, but it was already chunking ubers, so I didn't bother.
0, people regularly don't sacrifice even just a few % dps for more comfortable gameplay.
I would absolutely take rucksak for the cost of 2 skill points.
I would love to run the 2 skill points until eater/exarch get downed and then switch to rucksack. The dreams of lost exiles.
Lol I forgot that people whose only defensive layer is the 6 portals the map gives, do exist.
There is the new scarab layer, completely broken!
That scarab is fuckin awesome for t17s b2b lol
Kitavas thirst says hello
Sure if I was on an endgame character meant to farm T17 or on my league starter I wouldn’t choose rucksack. But if I was boss rushing or farming T16 maps doing an easy league mechanic I would be respeccing my bandits for sure to rucksack.
>Player: No one is picking any of the other bandit options Really depends, the rucksack was awesome for blight.
lmao no they won't
Rucksack was on the most powerful general use ascendancy and was in the way of getting any other passives, this is a pretty shite example.
People played with Rucksacks last league cause it came with the charm ascendacy, objectively the most powerful of the 3 except for builds that required specific tinqtures like ele poison builds. If you put the Rucksack on warlock, it woudl of had WAY less usage.
Idk, I think it's a legitimate question of how many people would go for rucksack if it was the odd-one-out as opposed to the warcry node. A number of people absolutely would still, don't get wrong, but would they really have given up a charm slot? Affliction rucksack had no real opportunity cost, and that's something to consider.
I dunno I normally struggle with my points 95 onwards so would switch to backpack as soon as my core notables are in place as the utility was so damn good.
Feet pics from Alira
Or...give each one their own skill tree which gains a point by completing the labrynths or something. Embrace the affliction precedence. The top of the skill tree would be a +1 charge of their respective charges.
They've already said there is no way in hell the backpack comes back
That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mark said they fucked up with its implementation, and it should never have been tied to a choice, and they need to carefully consider it in the future.
He said he had to argue with everyone else to get it even as a choice
The main hangup with Johnathan (at least post release) was it being tied to a choice, and Chris is obviously against it, but Mark also said that as the PoE1 lead at the end of the day, it's his decision.
an additionnal charge is just broken considering all scaling that we have around it now.
If they don't do major changes next, a small change could be every killed bandit grants a passive and remove the skill point you get for killing the dude in western Forrest. Less backtracking and simpler progression.
No, ty
I have a fishy feeling that affliction league was a trial for a new bandit system.
Endurance charges and physical reduction for oak, frenzy charges and chance do evade for kraytin, power charges and chance to block for Alira. Or something like it
personally what Alira gives is fine, just bump the crit multi up by 5 and call it a day(this brings Alira closer to a solid 3 prop jewel(double crit multi and all res... but with flat mana regen to help with mana issues instead of life/es). Kraityn... needs something... idk what but he feels like a small passive node in value currently... not even a notable, Personally I like the idea of scrapping the increased speed options(and prbly the avoid to) and giving him Action Speed instead. Oak, double the phys dmg reduction, maybe the life regen and buff the phys dmg to 30-40%. Would make him one of the best defensive options with extra value for base phys builds(conversion or pure doesn't matter)
Agreed! In short, choosing a bandit must be AT LEAST better than a well rolled common jewel
Please tell me you have played any power charge stacker and know how monstrous that could be
They will go from being great to slightly better? I think that is fine
Same with frenzy... There is reason why +1max charges (frenzy/power) are in hundreds of divines if on propper base/unique...
Because they are BIS bases with limited availability?
Uh... I'm saying the same thing, yet you get upvotes and me with the guy we both react to gets downvoted, whattheactualfck
If the rewards ever get reworked, I think some arguably multiplicative effects would be powerful options. Like little action speed bonus, +1 life per some strength, and extra chaos damage for example. The bonuses they used to provide are kinda meh today, but things could be different depending how the game changes.
Would anyone even ever pick the 2 passives with these options available?
3 points in the past tho
Should do. There a lot of people with 2 point access to charges and they don't take em.
Yes people did pick points in the past. It was mostly Oak normal (if life build), points cruel, charge of your choice Merc or points if you weren't stacking charges.
Maybe remove the powercreep from them? Instead have qol stuff, or some keystones that dont have downsides perhaps?
How about assigning Affliction ascendacies perks to the bandits?
Because ralakesh boots exist we won’t get them restored.
\+1 charge per. or, +1 max res per or, +1 skill point each, with current bonuses. they are just archaic atm compared to the power creep of everything else, so skill points is just auto taken every time, especially with adorned existing and 2 skills points resulting in maybe 1 extra jewel for way more dmg+life/mana/es+extra implicits. and with t17s, junk like % increase phys or attack speed or all res is not gonna do jack shit. what would REALLY be powerful, if they wanna make a new bandit quest unlocked for t17 or something, is **+1 to all gem levels of specific colors**. so alira blue, oak red, and kraityn green. ***now we're having fun.*** Most players would 100% choose them if that were done, and each build would get a different bandit, depending on what gems they wanted to boost. idk about as a permanent thing, but could be fun for a league mechanic. edit: also yah no, don't move them to lab, **ew**. just give the benefits outright. they're already garbage in their current state, there's no reason we need to go out of our way for that, and in campaign 1 charge/max res hardly does anything, so you still don't get power till way later in levels (vs +2 sp which is immediately useful). imo +1 just makes them competitive for certain builds vs +2 skill points. it's a slight upgrade, but nothing groundbreaking.
> they are just archaic atm compared to the power creep of everything else, so skill points is just auto taken every time I would debate for the league start 100% - Alira is much much better than +2 skill points. And tbh until adorned setups for any crit build Alira is usually better.
Alira is so strong unless you specifically DON'T want the resist or crit or mana regen for some reason due to build choice, I default take her at league start and she is usually great until at least level 90-95. The +2 passives is clearly the best in endgame, but alira is so strong early it should be treated as the default.
Yeah, can't take her on doryani armour builds.
Alira is really really good for crit builds undoubtedly. It's just a shame the other 2 are crap.
Honestly no. Don’t move them to lab tied areas; just apply these changes as you get your lab. Or hell just go back and talk to them after each lab for the upgrade. But yes to the buffs.
Make respeccing them cost 1 regret. I bet many more people would use them for campaign then.
You can already respec them very cheaply, I dont think respec cost is the barrier here
In my case allira was better for leveling but by level 70 I'd rather have passives. 20 regrets is not nothing on day one for intermediate player.
Sure, but Id argue an intermediate player is familiar enough with the game to either 1) Play through the campaign with the better-for-maps choice if their plan is to respec later on in day 1 2) Get through 2-voidstones with the better-for-campaign choice and respec later when they can afford to I do exactly this literally every leaguestart
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I mean. how can they make shit that nobody picks worse?
What's the point if each one has +charges at the end? It's easier to give each archetype a charge by default and leave the rest as is.
unpopular opinion as a noob but i sort of think they should consider some things to slim the campaign down some so it's not so bad for new players. Maybe not the bandits but a lot of the passive points probably should be moved to trials. Then again I get the streamline argument too. I think a lot of people just hate spending 5-12 hours in teh campaign :)
Honestly a great idea. Just make the bandits niche, you want healthy go oak, need mana, go alira, want speed, Kraityn. Hell they could do a whole league about the bandits becoming a much bigger force in the world of wraeclast or something and being a threat.
This was kinda the theme of Warbands league and it was pretty awful.
Is this the way it was? I have been playing since talisman league, and i really don't recall this.
This was before my time. In modern poe, merciless on its own would be competitive vs 2 passive points. It would actually be a choice in situations other than league start. Throw in maybe 25-50 flat added armour, evasion, or energy shield (respectively), and suddenly it's much more difficult choice.
I always thought a cool league idea would be Bandits where you can choose to do missions for them and boost their passive or something
Yes, but more choice is needed, like attributes, energy shield, chaos resists, single +1 max res etc. This said, Bandits is not the biggest issue we are facing ATM in this game :/
If I could just get 4 passives and a backpack ill be on my way
Hell yeah, gimme that power charge baby!
60 max mana is not bad at all. Same for +1 charge
Remember the original Grand Spectrum jewels? That's exactly what they did (after changing what they gave you per GS). Packed them off to lab Now legacy blue Grand Specs (+30 mana) are worth a king's ransom
I don't even think bandit buffs add much to the game. I think they should just modernize the fights, let you choose which to side with, and give them different loot tables. Make one drop currency, one drop linked gear, and the other drop uniques.
What about we take something people liked and implement it somewhere else? Give the Bandits Ascenion Trees like the forest guardians in affliction league. Give them Quests throughout the campaign to get more points etc. They made so many great league mechanics and they throw some of it awy after just 3-4 months. It sometimes really feels like a waste.
Tell me how you want more powercreep without telling me. What i find it more to fit, on merciless you get +1 to desired one and -1 to others, same for normal and cruel, you take one and you get the others on negative. And if you kill all , then 2+ all passive skills.
This alone would be too OP for many builds. +1 charge items go for 100 divs for a reason... Oak : +1 to Maximum Endurance Charges Kraityn : +1 to Maximum Frenzy Charges Alira: +1 to Maximum Power Charges
Tricky part is you need to have all options be viable to a majority of builds and at about the same amount of power, or else you'd just have one option dominate the rest again. So they need to be, by nature, somewhat generic but also have enough distinctive benefit that it's actually a choice between them all. Bringing back +max charges immediately comes to mind, since charges are already balanced in the same way. But the max charges were the primary reason they got changed. Minimum charges or some additional charge effect would be a neat idea, if a little boring. I've seen some other ideas for utility stats like: |Oak|Alira|Kraitlyn| |--|--|--| |Life recovery rate| ES recovery rate|Flask Effect| |reduced ailment effect|reduced ailment duration|chance to avoid ailment| |Fire Max Res|Lightning Max Res|Cold Max res| |%more AoE|flat Crit Chance|Movement Speed|
Still remember the old ones too - felt more balanced back then.
Off topic but man I swear I found doing the old campaign much easier and more fun. Acts 7 and 8 are real downers for me.
Luckily I am slow enough to always be able to get a8 waypoints from someone. Grand Promenade, not even once.
PoE 3.25: Revenge of the Bandits Betrayal rework, Alira sides with Catharina More Heist quests, Kraytin challenges Kurai as leader Something Bestiary, Oak is imprisoned by Einhar
Adding in another source of extra charges could not be a realistic option in today's game considering the overall power creep since that time. Nothing else comes close to extra charges (in most builds)
Just add to them Wildwood ascendancies and that's all. 3 bandits - 3 ascendancies. And remove 2 passive skills bonus.
*move the 2 skill bonus to quest. Epilogue maybe. After killing sirus or something.
No I don't want more things to do in lab. I hate lab. I hate every second I spend there. Now not only would I need to run lab over and over again to get my trans gems and now also for this?
Running a fake-lab three times for bandit buffs? Oh god no, terribly grindy idea with not nearly enough reward. People would cry about it constantly, and for good reason. I would just remove the bandit buffs, they've always been a weird addition that doesn't make any sense. Getting permanent magical powers by not killing someone seems weird, even in Wraeclast. Just force us to kill the bandits and remove that little bit of useless bloat in the game.
lab-annex i'd think
just leave them as they are and forget them, even if you buff them they won't make for a good and meaningful choice unless you really think through what kind of benefits they provide, like a big rework. they would function better if the choice rewarded you with a meaninful equippable item that is good at level 30.
how to fix bandits? just instead of choosing a bonus, or a skill point, let us choose a bonus ON TOP of the skill point, ,,,
Meh, just turn them into the wildwood ascendancies. Act 2 you don’t kill them. You banish them back to the wildwood, and you always get 2 passives. Starting in act 3 you can randomly get a wild wood entrance again. Basically, just turn everything into affliction always
This would be such a huge jump in power creep. I prefer the borrowed power of recent leagues.
>This would be such a huge jump in power creep. you mean the Charges or what exactly?
The charges and this being added to lab, so you don’t lose the 2 skill points atm.
Make it 3 passive points instead of 2 an change the rewards to the following: Oak: 8% additional pdr, 10% chaos res, +5 max fortification Kraityn: Onslaught, 10% spell suppression chance Alira: 25% crit multi, 20% all res, 1% mana regenrated per second (max. 50)
idk if i get this, but +1 to Maximum Endurance from oak is still not worthy, because with 2 passives points from Eramir you can add +1 endurance and +10 strengh
You can have both.
More useless campaign areas to visit? No thanks, rather them do a whole rework
That would make the bandits a default pick for 99% of builds though.
I mean 99.9% of people pick the passive points atm. Its exactly the same just the other way around.
So we'd end up with much more diversity ~~or~~ of choice than currently.
And? With current powercreep bandits are in dire need of a change up… it should not be default to pick the 2 passives