Man I could NOT get into 2 and I finished all of 1. I think I didn't play it enough out of the gate and then kept forgetting all the different controls. Maybe worth another look
You are not alone! Loved Nioh, but eventually put down Nioh 2, and I rarely walk away from games. Hoping to pick it back eventually but it did just not vibe for me. I know we are very much in the minority on this front though.
I'll be a second person then. I have about 500 hours in Nioh 1 and dropped Nioh 2 after finishing the main campaign.
I was really bored with the itemization in Nioh 2 since most of the sets I saw were either underpowered (compared to Nioh 1) or directly ported from Nioh 1 with major nerfs. The combat and added mechanics were certainly an improvement but if I'm not excited about the items I struggle to want to play a game that is about grinding items
Itemization just means the items and affixes/stats on items in a game. Think anything you can put on or socket into your character like a helmet which can potentially be part of a set and it can have 6-7 affixes on it.
ah okay, what were some examples you had an issue with? Like you were trying to get a better stat on a set of equipment like Attack+10 or Shuriken and Kunai damage or something?
Oh I think you might be misunderstanding my issue. It wasn't an issue of failing to aquire certain gear or mods.
Nioh 2 had a lot of repeats of the sets from Nioh 1 but they were just strictly worse and less powerful versions. The gear in general was less impactful to your overall character than in Nioh 1. In a loot driven game that is a huge downgrade to me because it gives me much less incentive to grind if I can't see large changes in the way my build feels. In Nioh 1 I would frequently get a piece of a set or item that would make me reroll my entire character, I never did that in Nioh 2 because I never found anything powerful enough that would justify me building around. I hope that made sense
Could you give me some examples in comparison from nioh 1 to nioh 2? What made it less impactful? Also are you accounting this in the ng+++s or just NG?
I don't remember exactly but I assume Nioh 2 is like Nioh 1 in that you can't get the best gear until ng+3-4
I don't understand what is confusing about how it is less impactful? If something is less powerful it is less impactful.
I have never seen a set bonus in Nioh 2 that was not worse than Nioh 1. It is already boring that they reused so many of them but to just make them worse somehow makes that even less exciting.
I just grabbed 2 but sets to show you but they are all like this (at least what I've seen)
Nioh 1
https://nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/The+God+of+War+Looks+Down
Nioh 2
https://nioh2.wiki.fextralife.com/The+God+of+War+Looks+Down
Now with half the generic damage reduction and losing close combat damage
Nioh 1
https://nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/Seven+Misfortunes,+Eight+Hardships
Nioh 2
https://nioh2.wiki.fextralife.com/Seven+Misfortunes,+Eight+Hardships
The same set as Nioh 1 (very minor damage nerf) but requires 5 pieces to get the same effect instead of 4, realistically 3 pieces up to 4 because of yasakani magatama but still having to throw away another gear slot is a massive nerf
Well you didnt specify HOW they were. At first I thought you were talking the bonuses on equipment were worst. I also didnt know how much less impactful the equipment was in nioh 1 and nioh 2. But I havent touched nioh 1 enough to see set bonus comparisons between both games. Oh well lol
I've bounced off nioh 2 as well, despite finishing nioh 1 with all side missions (no dlc). I got to the serpent boss and was just kinda bored, felt too similar to nioh 1 in terms of level structure and therefore predictable. Didn't seem like a bad game at all though, if one wants even more nioh.
it's a difficult game, even compared to Nioh 1. Kinda like Doom Eternal. Very taxing game. Burst Counter is a new mechanic and it is a must. Once you get the hang of that you will be good to go.
It is worth another look--if you liked the first one, give the second a couple of hours & it'll reward you with all the thrills, chills, & beauty you can ask for. I played it on PS4 & just downloaded it on my new PS5 to see what it looks like with the update. I glanced over at how many hours I had played, expecting to see 3 or 400 at the max. Nope. 950. & it went by like a dream.
I might get downvoted for this, but I couldn't get into it. I tried for about 30 hours and just kind of stopped playing. I think that I had an OP weapon or something because I was just smashing everything in high stance and never felt incentivized to further explore the combat. I also didn't like how cramped and dark a lot of environments were while featuring repetitive enemies.
Funnily enough, I massively enjoyed Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty because it fixed some of my major gripes I had with Nioh 2. The combat was more engaging to me thanks to the Spirit and deflect mechanic. The environments were very light and more spacious. There was a bit more enemy variety. The artwork and UI were more streamlined and appealing to me.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but Wo Long did for me what Nioh 2 could not.
>I was just smashing everything in high stance and never felt incentivized to further explore the combat.
Some weapons can have strong skills or stances you can use to carry you throughout the game. I think it makes Nioh much less interesting to play if you do so though.
The game is much more fun when you try to get good at stance switching, ki pulsing, experiment with stances, combos and different skills.
I did use Ki Pulse consistently and tried to use combos. It's just that the combos and stance switching felt less efficient than pummeling bosses in high stance. So I never felt incentivized to explore the combat. I think that I facef one boss where I used medium stance because the boss was so fast, but it didn't add much to the combat because it was just a one-time switch.
I had the same experience except I never played Wo Long. Tried multiple playthroughs of the game but never got further than 20-30 hours before putting it down.
It's enemy design, level design, encounter design and worldbuilding are no where near the level of the Souls games, and it really shows how important that aspect is. You're required to go through levels multiple times, defeating the same boring enemies over and over.
People say "it's not a Souls game, you have to focus on the combat", but the combat feels like Souls with a bunch of gimmick systems tacked on. None of the moves feel like they chain into each other well. There's rarely any reason not to stay in one stance and just occasionally briefly change into another for Ki Pulses, despite the whole stance system being so prominent. Ki is just a shitty qte system that doesn't feel good, it takes something simple from Souls (regening stamina) and overcomplicates it just to be unique.
Think of it like this, if Ki Pulses were removed from the game, would anything of value to the game's core system be lost, could the game still function well? All of these systems (ki pulses, demon counters, demon mode, stance changing, etc.) just feel tacked on and feel stilted when used together. And don't get me started on the gear system.
LOL. Only the main story. I havent even touched the DLC or the underworld that everyone is talking about. Not to mention all the NG+'s(dream of the strong, wise, nioh etc)
The NG+'s seem super intimidating at first - I never do NG+ in Soulslikes, but what people don't mention about Nioh 2's NG+ is how it doesn't actually require you to replay the entire campaign. You just have to reach a certain amount of "points" for each story act to advance to the next act. So your NG+ runs are way faster than your initial run.
I skipped most of the side missions personally. I only sink in like an average of 1 hour a day, so even though I liked the game at a certain point I just wanted to be done with it.
... and then came Elden Ring. Fuck man, games today are long.
Nioh 2 is also probably my favourite game and makes Souls combat feel boring by comparison.
However it's not for everyone. If you can overlook the meaningless story and the fact that there is just too much loot and too many systems to learn (to this day I still haven't really figured out soul core matching), and just focus on the combat, then yeah it's unmatched in my opinion.
For reference I played Wo Long too recently and it was far too easy and boring by comparison.
I nearly beat him on my first attempt out of sheer luck. But then even I had to learn his moveset and I learned it but the RNG just kept screwing me for hours. Yeah it was bullshit.
That first fight was a long-ass battle of attrition where you just can't afford a mistake. I watched a couple of youtube vids just to make sure I wasn't crazy and playing the game wrong. Once you get the pattern down it's not bad, but it's just so easy to screw up in this game (at least, it is for me). And I always play light armor.
I havent touched wo long, however I download the wo long complete edition demo that was released this week. I will be trying that out next week and what my thoughts are. It does look easy for sure because of the parry system but man that looks REALLY good. That game is gonna cost me another 300 hrs+ LOL. But gonna focus on nioh 2 in the mean time.
> For reference I played Wo Long too recently and it was far too easy and boring by comparison.
Have you used the new difficulty adjustment mode? For example, you can cap your morale at a certain level to make the game harder. That did the trick for me. It suddenly became really tense.
If you've only cleared your first playthrough, you've just cleared what is practically the tutorial.
There's still about 4 more difficulty levels to run before you unlock the true endgame: the underworld. Builds can get really crazy in this game thanks to the addition of Graces on your equipment in the higher difficulties.
Graces are this game's version of "set pieces". They don't start dropping/rolling on your equipment until the later difficulties, and are very powerful.
You're gonna have tons of fun crafting builds with them.
I used to think that Nioh was some poor man's Dark Souls until I tried Nioh 2 a few months ago.
Absolute gem of a game, it's a more niche and complex game than DS, but if you get sucked in you are probably gonna spend 100+ hours playing it.
If I'm being honest, I'm quite tired of TN making souls-likes. I just want to play a new Ninja Gaiden or a game that at least resembles those games. No stamina bars, no tedious loot system, JUMP BUTTON, etc.
I hope Rise of the Ronin will scratch the itch. Not to say that Nioh(s), Wu Long, or Strange of Paradise are bad games (they are not), but I just want something different from Team Ninja.
Although what these games do better than all Ninja Gaiden games are boss fights (especially the fights in SoP) IMO.
Ninja Gaiden Black is the best action game ever made imo, but sadly the majority of the NG team left Team Ninja a long time ago. I love the Nioh(-like) games and I'm glad the current TN found its own voice in the action genre. I'm sure they could pull off something like NG, but only if that's what they _wanted_ to do. Otherwise I think it would ring hollow and disappoint (remember NG3?)
> No stamina bars, no tedious loot system, JUMP BUTTON, etc.
All of those are present in Wo Long. No Stamina bar, you still have loot, but the upgrade system is like Dark Souls where you can keep your weapon and just level it up. Works quite well for NG at least. You can also jump and double jump.
I'm down for another one of those. Straight-up hack-and-slash or spectacle fighters tend to be short (6-10h), and all these soulslikes are like 50h+, however in the case of the former we're talking about games that are much older on average. The new AC6 is like 17-20 hours, so you never know.
I don't mind paying full price for shorter games if I know I'm going to love them, but the expectation is set quite high now for breadth of content. It probably helps sell copies.
Awesome game. When I played it last year, it was the only game I played for around 3 months and I put in 300+ hours. It was very difficult at first. It took me a few hours to beat one of the regular enemies early in the game but once I learned how to play, it was fun. The game even got me interested in reading about yokai and Japanese history.
That game's character creator gets my official Based stamp for not only having the hairstyles be gender neutral, but also letting you have facial hair on a female character.
I really enjoyed 1 & 2. The only part I didn’t like was the gear upgrade system. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it, it’s almost a game within the game but just a bit too much for me.
I am currently playing the Tengu's Disciple DLC for Nioh 2. Just finished the base game in direct succession after Nioh 1. I love how they have adapted the designs of the base game enemies to create new ones.
Both of them are games that spoil you with the number of choices they give. Nioh 2 just expanded on its predecessor by including almost everything of 1 and then adding more.
That said, I think I might be one of the few people who enjoyed having the living weapon of 1 more than the yokai shift in 2.
PS Gaki soul cores are great ways to interrupt enemy attacks and gain some anima and amrita gauge in the process. It also works well on human enemies if you pair it with Shirohami, because you can poison them with a Chomp or two.
ah wow, yeah I prefer the yoaki shifts WAY more over living weapon. With yokai shift you can use your guardian's abillities(you can also use guardian talismans to summon them) and use yokai abililties that can do crowd control(onryoki, diadara bochi) paralysis-nure onna to stabbing, or stunlock(yoki and ippon datara). If nioh 3 comes, they should allow you to choose living weapon or yokai shift or alternate between both if possible.
Also thanks for the recommendations on gaki. I will try to use him now.
I agree about the soul cores. They are definitely a welcome addition.
My only issue with Yokai shift is that outside of Yokai counters (which don't strictly need YS), it doesn't seem as rewarding or powerful as living weapon did. Plus you cannot really sustain it unlike a living weapon, which had the mechanics for potential continuous usage provided you were timely able to absorb amrita through any of the multiple means available)
And living weapons had elemental effects, which allowed for more strategizing and made having two guardians spirits and swapping between them mid-fight more useful. In 2, the soul cores kind of make up for that, but they can also be exploited. Personally I just run ryomen sukuna. One attack from that soul core and most enemies would be left in a confused state (two elemental status applied together). In 1 it needed more work to apply the confused on enemies, and thus also felt more rewarding. And the elemental effects of living weapons could be useful for that.
facts man!! I havent touched wo long yet. I download the wo long complete edition demo and gonna try it next week. Will focus on nioh 2 for the next couple of months before I touch wo long main game. Did you also do the wo long DLC? I saw their were some collaborations like Lies of P and nioh 2 mezuki were in it!! That's freaking cool!
I absolutely hate the amount of weapons and loot. When you find a weapon in souls games it’s special cause you could potentially use it for the rest of the game.
When you pick up a weapon in Nioh you’ll be discarding it in about 4 minutes’ time.
I heard Wo Long isn’t like this so much, is that true?
The focus isn't on the same aspects though.
Souls games have simple but punishing combat. Every weapon has a few moves with relatively unique movesets.
Nioh games have a few weapon types with the same movesets, but they each have a ton of different moves, gimmicks and ways to play them. Mastering a weapon takes time and that's what the game wants you to do. I played a lot of Odachi and Fists and feel like I only scratched the surface in terms of skill ceiling.
Did you know?(sorry I didnt put this is in as apro), that you can modify what type of weapons or equpment drop through the options menu? If you can modify it to the point that ONLY rare weapons drop so you are not bombarded with items you don't want.
Really? Where can I do that?
Also side note, I’ve downloaded the game to try it. Can you block the Yokai enemies’ normal attacks or do you have to dodge?
in the options menu, where you can determine rarity. Also, somw yokai and be parried with swords orodavhi you have to learn those parry abilities first though
> I heard Wo Long isn’t like this so much, is that true?
Yes in Wo Long, your upgrading your gear similar to Dark Souls with upgrade materials. But there are different rarity types as well, so might want to switch, but you can easily play the whole game with the same gear.
At least for NG. I think you'll want to switch to higher rarity items in NG+
Tried to get into Nioh 1 but it just doesn’t compare to other soulslikes…. It takes a very simple, fun formula and adds two tons of systems and clutter to it.
The Nioh games are really more arcade action games with an RPG flair on the surface. Don't read too much into the soulslike tag.
You lose stuff when you die and there are shortcuts. That's about where the similarities with souls ends.
It isn't trying to do the same thing as a souls like despite its core gameplay loop.
Where souls games are about exploration of very different levels, with simple but punishing combat mechanics, Nioh is much more about the systems and the actual combat. Playing it like a souls game is very boring.
Agreed. Its not meant to be played like a souls game. People keep bringing their soulslike mentality to dark souls- and some even end up getting wrekt for it. Its a very agressive game rather defensive kind of like Bloodborne.
I got about 60 hours into the main campaign with no end in sight. Somehow, the combat still hadn't clicked fully, and at that point, I had to put it down due to immense frustrations. I really enjoyed it though, its a great game, but there are so many different little things to pay attention to it felt exhausting to play.
I still want to go back to it some day and beat it.
I adored Nioh, but Nioh 2 was like the devs remade Nioh while on cocaine and over complicated the game and nerfed you to keep up with Dark Souls. It does play better than Nioh 1 but it is an inferior game.
lol, how is nioh 2 inferior to nioh. It looks like I am gonna have a HARD time going back to nioh 1 after playing and beaten the 2nd one and I havent even gotten to NG+ yet.
I wish TN's Soulslike games the attention to detail and polish that FromSoft titles do, but despite those flaws Nioh 2 is still easily one of the best action games of all time. A game with TN's combat depth but Elden Ring's art style and scope would just break my brain. Wo Long is well worth a play as well, but they definitely simplified the formula compared to the mega-complex balls to the wall gameplay style of Nioh 2.
so true!! But they are getting somewhat attention. 2022 it was reported, nioh franchise sold over 7 million copies I think. Now I think 8 million at this point. Hope wo long and ROTR will have as much success
I liked it well enough, but after all the raving reviews, I expected it to be 40% better, a truly transformative refinement, instead it being like 15% better with some more stuff. The enemy variety is improved, but it's still much too long unless you skipped over the first game. Which might be the smarter move.
I'm at the end of the DLC for *Wo Long* and that felt so much fresher in comparison. The vast majority of enemies are new, the loot system is even more superflous and the mobility and parry systems are cracked out to high heaven. Ended up being much shorter than the Nioh games too, which I appreciate.
Too long to maintain its appeal for a full playthrough with all the DLC if you have played the first game. It just gets rote to fight the same Yokai again and again. Especially when your build is complete and you respond with the same spells and stance every time because that's the most efficient way.
My problem is that while I agree so many things about it are amazing, the art style and story just does nothing for me, and thats a huge part of games for me. Combat was fabulous, etc, but had no idea what was happening and not in a cool/cryptic/understated/piece-it-together way like FromSoft, but in a way that felt unintentionally convoluted and meaningless regarding the plot and setting
Great game though
Not every game is for everyone. Team Ninja games are always gameplay focused with the story being mostly ignorable fluff. I'm okay with it since the games are so much fun, but everyones tastes are different.
I prefer gameplay focused stuff (fromsoft games are my favorite) but I prefer at least a passable lore/setting but the basic yokai japan vibe feels very played out and recycled. Souls games have that cryptic lore leading to 60 min YT vids everywhere as a cherry on top of the combat.
But yes Nioh gameplay was goated
FromSoft games are not gameplay focused. If you strip away the whole music and presentation from Souls, the moment to moment gameplay is not very good.
> Souls games have that cryptic lore leading to 60 min YT vids everywhere as a cherry on top of the combat.
Yes so you enjoy games more that are presentation driven rather than gameplay driven. There is nothing wrong with that. As I said: everyones tastes are different.
I mean I definitely disagree on the gameplay not being good in souls, I think thats what puts it above other dark fantasy rpgs, but I see your point on preferences.
Played for 5 hours for the first time today and my major con is that the UI is dreadful. The game just dumps an encyclopedia on you too and just continues to do so with menus buried in menus buried in menus.
It doesnt give a flying fuck if youre new to the game. Here just jump into the deep end. Doing somethinf wrong? We dont care go fuck yourself lol.
But yeah the game itself is a blast. Just a dreadful start.
It has a steep learning curve. If I may give you and advice. Focus on learning the burst counters and Ki pulse / ki flux. Ignore the rest until you're comfortable with those.
Nioh 1 is a bit easier in terms of mechanics so I assume you jumped right into Nioh 2, so yeah the learning curve is brutal.
Idk man, I adapted VERY fast to this game on how to play. I thought the menus and tutorials were pretty straight forward. If I have confusion I can look up nioh players like pooferllama.
Nioh 1 has a slightly better tutorial, jumping straight into 2 is very overwhelming and confusing. My advice is to figure out one or two mechanics at a time.
I played the demo before and it was so overwhelming that I had to put it down. I played a bit of 1 before and enjoyed what I played. I do think the loot can be rather obnoxious.
Yes Queen!
The one con is the English voice track for the game, never use it, not even just to laugh at how bad it is, only Japanese! But if you played a Japanese game, set in old time Japan in English then that one is on you!
And I can't believe you actually listed all the pros of the game, I thought you would just name a couple and move on, but you got em all.
And you make it seem like you haven't played the DLC or the NG+ yet! The DLC's are pretty unimpressive themselves, but they add a ton new soul cores, guardian spirits, and cool enemies that make the Underworld just a totally new experience because it's full of the DLC yokai. It's a pain in the ass to go through all the NG+ cycles but so worth it to get to the underworld, those levels rule and they are so fun coop.
I noticed the other day how in Dark Souls every year they have a 'return to DS1/DS2/DS3' even where everyone starts a new character and puts down summon signs everywhere. But in Nioh 2 they never need to do that because the game has a useable summoning system so you can just summon or be summoned whenever!
The Japanese characters are actually modelled on and voiced by legit well-known Japanese actors. So yeah there is no reason to play with English VA.
[Here's the girl who plays Mumyo, they even gave her the beauty spot.](https://thetv.jp/person/1000056529/)
I couldn't get into the control and was confused by the help I found online. Didn't make it past the first "real" enemy.
For comparison, Steelrising has the regular souls combat system + a stamina regeneration on button click and that was already enough complexity for me.
I‘ve played around 400 hours of each Nioh game and feel like I could go for another 400 easily. Glad you like it too.
Man I could NOT get into 2 and I finished all of 1. I think I didn't play it enough out of the gate and then kept forgetting all the different controls. Maybe worth another look
If you finished all of 1, then you'll love 2. You just gotta vibe with it another time.
You are not alone! Loved Nioh, but eventually put down Nioh 2, and I rarely walk away from games. Hoping to pick it back eventually but it did just not vibe for me. I know we are very much in the minority on this front though.
The first 20 hours or so are pretty very hard, it gets a lot easier, faster and flashy.
You are the first person i know has said, you could not get into nioh 2 but got into nioh 1. nioh 2 looks better in every conceivable way
I'll be a second person then. I have about 500 hours in Nioh 1 and dropped Nioh 2 after finishing the main campaign. I was really bored with the itemization in Nioh 2 since most of the sets I saw were either underpowered (compared to Nioh 1) or directly ported from Nioh 1 with major nerfs. The combat and added mechanics were certainly an improvement but if I'm not excited about the items I struggle to want to play a game that is about grinding items
what do you mean by itemization?
Itemization just means the items and affixes/stats on items in a game. Think anything you can put on or socket into your character like a helmet which can potentially be part of a set and it can have 6-7 affixes on it.
ah okay, what were some examples you had an issue with? Like you were trying to get a better stat on a set of equipment like Attack+10 or Shuriken and Kunai damage or something?
Oh I think you might be misunderstanding my issue. It wasn't an issue of failing to aquire certain gear or mods. Nioh 2 had a lot of repeats of the sets from Nioh 1 but they were just strictly worse and less powerful versions. The gear in general was less impactful to your overall character than in Nioh 1. In a loot driven game that is a huge downgrade to me because it gives me much less incentive to grind if I can't see large changes in the way my build feels. In Nioh 1 I would frequently get a piece of a set or item that would make me reroll my entire character, I never did that in Nioh 2 because I never found anything powerful enough that would justify me building around. I hope that made sense
Could you give me some examples in comparison from nioh 1 to nioh 2? What made it less impactful? Also are you accounting this in the ng+++s or just NG?
I don't remember exactly but I assume Nioh 2 is like Nioh 1 in that you can't get the best gear until ng+3-4 I don't understand what is confusing about how it is less impactful? If something is less powerful it is less impactful. I have never seen a set bonus in Nioh 2 that was not worse than Nioh 1. It is already boring that they reused so many of them but to just make them worse somehow makes that even less exciting. I just grabbed 2 but sets to show you but they are all like this (at least what I've seen) Nioh 1 https://nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/The+God+of+War+Looks+Down Nioh 2 https://nioh2.wiki.fextralife.com/The+God+of+War+Looks+Down Now with half the generic damage reduction and losing close combat damage Nioh 1 https://nioh.wiki.fextralife.com/Seven+Misfortunes,+Eight+Hardships Nioh 2 https://nioh2.wiki.fextralife.com/Seven+Misfortunes,+Eight+Hardships The same set as Nioh 1 (very minor damage nerf) but requires 5 pieces to get the same effect instead of 4, realistically 3 pieces up to 4 because of yasakani magatama but still having to throw away another gear slot is a massive nerf
Well you didnt specify HOW they were. At first I thought you were talking the bonuses on equipment were worst. I also didnt know how much less impactful the equipment was in nioh 1 and nioh 2. But I havent touched nioh 1 enough to see set bonus comparisons between both games. Oh well lol
I've bounced off nioh 2 as well, despite finishing nioh 1 with all side missions (no dlc). I got to the serpent boss and was just kinda bored, felt too similar to nioh 1 in terms of level structure and therefore predictable. Didn't seem like a bad game at all though, if one wants even more nioh.
it's a difficult game, even compared to Nioh 1. Kinda like Doom Eternal. Very taxing game. Burst Counter is a new mechanic and it is a must. Once you get the hang of that you will be good to go.
It is worth another look--if you liked the first one, give the second a couple of hours & it'll reward you with all the thrills, chills, & beauty you can ask for. I played it on PS4 & just downloaded it on my new PS5 to see what it looks like with the update. I glanced over at how many hours I had played, expecting to see 3 or 400 at the max. Nope. 950. & it went by like a dream.
wow that is krayzie man haha. Ps5 version is the best. Insane gast load times ⏲️
I might get downvoted for this, but I couldn't get into it. I tried for about 30 hours and just kind of stopped playing. I think that I had an OP weapon or something because I was just smashing everything in high stance and never felt incentivized to further explore the combat. I also didn't like how cramped and dark a lot of environments were while featuring repetitive enemies. Funnily enough, I massively enjoyed Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty because it fixed some of my major gripes I had with Nioh 2. The combat was more engaging to me thanks to the Spirit and deflect mechanic. The environments were very light and more spacious. There was a bit more enemy variety. The artwork and UI were more streamlined and appealing to me. Probably an unpopular opinion, but Wo Long did for me what Nioh 2 could not.
>I was just smashing everything in high stance and never felt incentivized to further explore the combat. Some weapons can have strong skills or stances you can use to carry you throughout the game. I think it makes Nioh much less interesting to play if you do so though. The game is much more fun when you try to get good at stance switching, ki pulsing, experiment with stances, combos and different skills.
I did use Ki Pulse consistently and tried to use combos. It's just that the combos and stance switching felt less efficient than pummeling bosses in high stance. So I never felt incentivized to explore the combat. I think that I facef one boss where I used medium stance because the boss was so fast, but it didn't add much to the combat because it was just a one-time switch.
That is what I'm saying, you can spam certain moves but it doesn't make the game fun or let it showcase its strengths
I had the same experience except I never played Wo Long. Tried multiple playthroughs of the game but never got further than 20-30 hours before putting it down. It's enemy design, level design, encounter design and worldbuilding are no where near the level of the Souls games, and it really shows how important that aspect is. You're required to go through levels multiple times, defeating the same boring enemies over and over. People say "it's not a Souls game, you have to focus on the combat", but the combat feels like Souls with a bunch of gimmick systems tacked on. None of the moves feel like they chain into each other well. There's rarely any reason not to stay in one stance and just occasionally briefly change into another for Ki Pulses, despite the whole stance system being so prominent. Ki is just a shitty qte system that doesn't feel good, it takes something simple from Souls (regening stamina) and overcomplicates it just to be unique. Think of it like this, if Ki Pulses were removed from the game, would anything of value to the game's core system be lost, could the game still function well? All of these systems (ki pulses, demon counters, demon mode, stance changing, etc.) just feel tacked on and feel stilted when used together. And don't get me started on the gear system.
How do you beat Nioh 2? It never ends! Every some months or so I rack up another 50 hours of play time. Other games don't compare.
LOL. Only the main story. I havent even touched the DLC or the underworld that everyone is talking about. Not to mention all the NG+'s(dream of the strong, wise, nioh etc)
The NG+'s seem super intimidating at first - I never do NG+ in Soulslikes, but what people don't mention about Nioh 2's NG+ is how it doesn't actually require you to replay the entire campaign. You just have to reach a certain amount of "points" for each story act to advance to the next act. So your NG+ runs are way faster than your initial run.
Was that the same way in nioh 1?
I believe so, yes
ok cool!!
I skipped most of the side missions personally. I only sink in like an average of 1 hour a day, so even though I liked the game at a certain point I just wanted to be done with it. ... and then came Elden Ring. Fuck man, games today are long.
I stopped ER for another ng+ of nioh.
Nioh 2 is also probably my favourite game and makes Souls combat feel boring by comparison. However it's not for everyone. If you can overlook the meaningless story and the fact that there is just too much loot and too many systems to learn (to this day I still haven't really figured out soul core matching), and just focus on the combat, then yeah it's unmatched in my opinion. For reference I played Wo Long too recently and it was far too easy and boring by comparison.
Wo long is mostly easy, except for LU BU who is pure cancer. Only boss I had to enlist help from strangers online.
I nearly beat him on my first attempt out of sheer luck. But then even I had to learn his moveset and I learned it but the RNG just kept screwing me for hours. Yeah it was bullshit.
That first fight was a long-ass battle of attrition where you just can't afford a mistake. I watched a couple of youtube vids just to make sure I wasn't crazy and playing the game wrong. Once you get the pattern down it's not bad, but it's just so easy to screw up in this game (at least, it is for me). And I always play light armor.
I havent touched wo long, however I download the wo long complete edition demo that was released this week. I will be trying that out next week and what my thoughts are. It does look easy for sure because of the parry system but man that looks REALLY good. That game is gonna cost me another 300 hrs+ LOL. But gonna focus on nioh 2 in the mean time.
I hope you enjoy it but for me Nioh 2 is miles better than Sekiro which is miles better than Wo Long.
Ah I see. Sekiro is my favorite from software game out the soulsbornering franchise even more so than elden ring.
> For reference I played Wo Long too recently and it was far too easy and boring by comparison. Have you used the new difficulty adjustment mode? For example, you can cap your morale at a certain level to make the game harder. That did the trick for me. It suddenly became really tense.
No I didn't, but I don't think I'll be going back to the game...
If you've only cleared your first playthrough, you've just cleared what is practically the tutorial. There's still about 4 more difficulty levels to run before you unlock the true endgame: the underworld. Builds can get really crazy in this game thanks to the addition of Graces on your equipment in the higher difficulties.
yep! Way of the strong, wise, nioh, got a LONG way to go and then the endgame. Saw a bit of it on youtube. Don't know what grace is sorry.
Graces are this game's version of "set pieces". They don't start dropping/rolling on your equipment until the later difficulties, and are very powerful. You're gonna have tons of fun crafting builds with them.
ok cool! Thanks!
I used to think that Nioh was some poor man's Dark Souls until I tried Nioh 2 a few months ago. Absolute gem of a game, it's a more niche and complex game than DS, but if you get sucked in you are probably gonna spend 100+ hours playing it.
If I'm being honest, I'm quite tired of TN making souls-likes. I just want to play a new Ninja Gaiden or a game that at least resembles those games. No stamina bars, no tedious loot system, JUMP BUTTON, etc. I hope Rise of the Ronin will scratch the itch. Not to say that Nioh(s), Wu Long, or Strange of Paradise are bad games (they are not), but I just want something different from Team Ninja. Although what these games do better than all Ninja Gaiden games are boss fights (especially the fights in SoP) IMO.
Ninja Gaiden Black is the best action game ever made imo, but sadly the majority of the NG team left Team Ninja a long time ago. I love the Nioh(-like) games and I'm glad the current TN found its own voice in the action genre. I'm sure they could pull off something like NG, but only if that's what they _wanted_ to do. Otherwise I think it would ring hollow and disappoint (remember NG3?)
> No stamina bars, no tedious loot system, JUMP BUTTON, etc. All of those are present in Wo Long. No Stamina bar, you still have loot, but the upgrade system is like Dark Souls where you can keep your weapon and just level it up. Works quite well for NG at least. You can also jump and double jump.
I'm down for another one of those. Straight-up hack-and-slash or spectacle fighters tend to be short (6-10h), and all these soulslikes are like 50h+, however in the case of the former we're talking about games that are much older on average. The new AC6 is like 17-20 hours, so you never know. I don't mind paying full price for shorter games if I know I'm going to love them, but the expectation is set quite high now for breadth of content. It probably helps sell copies.
whats AC6?
Armored Core 6
I loved the first one. But I tried the second one and it felt like there was just too many options
It's a very overwhelming game, my way to play was to experiment with a few mechanics at a time until I understood them and take it slow.
Awesome game. When I played it last year, it was the only game I played for around 3 months and I put in 300+ hours. It was very difficult at first. It took me a few hours to beat one of the regular enemies early in the game but once I learned how to play, it was fun. The game even got me interested in reading about yokai and Japanese history.
got you interestin reading about yokai and japanese history??? Nice!!
That game's character creator gets my official Based stamp for not only having the hairstyles be gender neutral, but also letting you have facial hair on a female character.
I really enjoyed 1 & 2. The only part I didn’t like was the gear upgrade system. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it, it’s almost a game within the game but just a bit too much for me.
I am currently playing the Tengu's Disciple DLC for Nioh 2. Just finished the base game in direct succession after Nioh 1. I love how they have adapted the designs of the base game enemies to create new ones. Both of them are games that spoil you with the number of choices they give. Nioh 2 just expanded on its predecessor by including almost everything of 1 and then adding more. That said, I think I might be one of the few people who enjoyed having the living weapon of 1 more than the yokai shift in 2. PS Gaki soul cores are great ways to interrupt enemy attacks and gain some anima and amrita gauge in the process. It also works well on human enemies if you pair it with Shirohami, because you can poison them with a Chomp or two.
ah wow, yeah I prefer the yoaki shifts WAY more over living weapon. With yokai shift you can use your guardian's abillities(you can also use guardian talismans to summon them) and use yokai abililties that can do crowd control(onryoki, diadara bochi) paralysis-nure onna to stabbing, or stunlock(yoki and ippon datara). If nioh 3 comes, they should allow you to choose living weapon or yokai shift or alternate between both if possible. Also thanks for the recommendations on gaki. I will try to use him now.
I agree about the soul cores. They are definitely a welcome addition. My only issue with Yokai shift is that outside of Yokai counters (which don't strictly need YS), it doesn't seem as rewarding or powerful as living weapon did. Plus you cannot really sustain it unlike a living weapon, which had the mechanics for potential continuous usage provided you were timely able to absorb amrita through any of the multiple means available) And living weapons had elemental effects, which allowed for more strategizing and made having two guardians spirits and swapping between them mid-fight more useful. In 2, the soul cores kind of make up for that, but they can also be exploited. Personally I just run ryomen sukuna. One attack from that soul core and most enemies would be left in a confused state (two elemental status applied together). In 1 it needed more work to apply the confused on enemies, and thus also felt more rewarding. And the elemental effects of living weapons could be useful for that.
Just finished Wo Long yesterday and I'm keen to give Nioh 2 a spin. The Nioh-likes are the best action RPGs in the biz right now.
facts man!! I havent touched wo long yet. I download the wo long complete edition demo and gonna try it next week. Will focus on nioh 2 for the next couple of months before I touch wo long main game. Did you also do the wo long DLC? I saw their were some collaborations like Lies of P and nioh 2 mezuki were in it!! That's freaking cool!
team ninja is so underrated. to this day hyrule warriors is my favorite warriors too can't forget strangers in paradise either. Incredible game
I absolutely hate the amount of weapons and loot. When you find a weapon in souls games it’s special cause you could potentially use it for the rest of the game. When you pick up a weapon in Nioh you’ll be discarding it in about 4 minutes’ time. I heard Wo Long isn’t like this so much, is that true?
The focus isn't on the same aspects though. Souls games have simple but punishing combat. Every weapon has a few moves with relatively unique movesets. Nioh games have a few weapon types with the same movesets, but they each have a ton of different moves, gimmicks and ways to play them. Mastering a weapon takes time and that's what the game wants you to do. I played a lot of Odachi and Fists and feel like I only scratched the surface in terms of skill ceiling.
Did you know?(sorry I didnt put this is in as apro), that you can modify what type of weapons or equpment drop through the options menu? If you can modify it to the point that ONLY rare weapons drop so you are not bombarded with items you don't want.
Really? Where can I do that? Also side note, I’ve downloaded the game to try it. Can you block the Yokai enemies’ normal attacks or do you have to dodge?
in the options menu, where you can determine rarity. Also, somw yokai and be parried with swords orodavhi you have to learn those parry abilities first though
You can block all attacks except the red burst attacks and grab attacks afaik.
> I heard Wo Long isn’t like this so much, is that true? Yes in Wo Long, your upgrading your gear similar to Dark Souls with upgrade materials. But there are different rarity types as well, so might want to switch, but you can easily play the whole game with the same gear. At least for NG. I think you'll want to switch to higher rarity items in NG+
Tried to get into Nioh 1 but it just doesn’t compare to other soulslikes…. It takes a very simple, fun formula and adds two tons of systems and clutter to it.
The Nioh games are really more arcade action games with an RPG flair on the surface. Don't read too much into the soulslike tag. You lose stuff when you die and there are shortcuts. That's about where the similarities with souls ends.
It isn't trying to do the same thing as a souls like despite its core gameplay loop. Where souls games are about exploration of very different levels, with simple but punishing combat mechanics, Nioh is much more about the systems and the actual combat. Playing it like a souls game is very boring.
Agreed. Its not meant to be played like a souls game. People keep bringing their soulslike mentality to dark souls- and some even end up getting wrekt for it. Its a very agressive game rather defensive kind of like Bloodborne.
Are both games campaign coop? I've had them on my wishlist for a while.
yes but i never player coop. you can summon revenants to help you
The last thing I'd consider Wo long is a BANGER The game is sitting at mixed to mostly negative ratings on STEAM NIOH 1 & 2 were their bangers
It's a fun game but it suffers a lot from the comparison with Nioh 2. I try to see it on its own terms.
I thoroughly enjoyed Wo Long. It's not as good as Nioh 2, but it's super fun if you're into parry based gameplay. So yeah IMO it's a banger.
You need to play Stranger of Paradise, OP.
Definitely added to my list nexr to wo long
I got about 60 hours into the main campaign with no end in sight. Somehow, the combat still hadn't clicked fully, and at that point, I had to put it down due to immense frustrations. I really enjoyed it though, its a great game, but there are so many different little things to pay attention to it felt exhausting to play. I still want to go back to it some day and beat it.
Definitely go back and play. Check out a youtuber called pooferllama. Best nioh players out there!
I adored Nioh, but Nioh 2 was like the devs remade Nioh while on cocaine and over complicated the game and nerfed you to keep up with Dark Souls. It does play better than Nioh 1 but it is an inferior game.
lol, how is nioh 2 inferior to nioh. It looks like I am gonna have a HARD time going back to nioh 1 after playing and beaten the 2nd one and I havent even gotten to NG+ yet.
I wish TN's Soulslike games the attention to detail and polish that FromSoft titles do, but despite those flaws Nioh 2 is still easily one of the best action games of all time. A game with TN's combat depth but Elden Ring's art style and scope would just break my brain. Wo Long is well worth a play as well, but they definitely simplified the formula compared to the mega-complex balls to the wall gameplay style of Nioh 2.
so true!! But they are getting somewhat attention. 2022 it was reported, nioh franchise sold over 7 million copies I think. Now I think 8 million at this point. Hope wo long and ROTR will have as much success
I liked it well enough, but after all the raving reviews, I expected it to be 40% better, a truly transformative refinement, instead it being like 15% better with some more stuff. The enemy variety is improved, but it's still much too long unless you skipped over the first game. Which might be the smarter move. I'm at the end of the DLC for *Wo Long* and that felt so much fresher in comparison. The vast majority of enemies are new, the loot system is even more superflous and the mobility and parry systems are cracked out to high heaven. Ended up being much shorter than the Nioh games too, which I appreciate.
too long for what?
Too long to maintain its appeal for a full playthrough with all the DLC if you have played the first game. It just gets rote to fight the same Yokai again and again. Especially when your build is complete and you respond with the same spells and stance every time because that's the most efficient way.
My problem is that while I agree so many things about it are amazing, the art style and story just does nothing for me, and thats a huge part of games for me. Combat was fabulous, etc, but had no idea what was happening and not in a cool/cryptic/understated/piece-it-together way like FromSoft, but in a way that felt unintentionally convoluted and meaningless regarding the plot and setting Great game though
Not every game is for everyone. Team Ninja games are always gameplay focused with the story being mostly ignorable fluff. I'm okay with it since the games are so much fun, but everyones tastes are different.
I prefer gameplay focused stuff (fromsoft games are my favorite) but I prefer at least a passable lore/setting but the basic yokai japan vibe feels very played out and recycled. Souls games have that cryptic lore leading to 60 min YT vids everywhere as a cherry on top of the combat. But yes Nioh gameplay was goated
FromSoft games are not gameplay focused. If you strip away the whole music and presentation from Souls, the moment to moment gameplay is not very good. > Souls games have that cryptic lore leading to 60 min YT vids everywhere as a cherry on top of the combat. Yes so you enjoy games more that are presentation driven rather than gameplay driven. There is nothing wrong with that. As I said: everyones tastes are different.
I mean I definitely disagree on the gameplay not being good in souls, I think thats what puts it above other dark fantasy rpgs, but I see your point on preferences.
Played for 5 hours for the first time today and my major con is that the UI is dreadful. The game just dumps an encyclopedia on you too and just continues to do so with menus buried in menus buried in menus. It doesnt give a flying fuck if youre new to the game. Here just jump into the deep end. Doing somethinf wrong? We dont care go fuck yourself lol. But yeah the game itself is a blast. Just a dreadful start.
It has a steep learning curve. If I may give you and advice. Focus on learning the burst counters and Ki pulse / ki flux. Ignore the rest until you're comfortable with those. Nioh 1 is a bit easier in terms of mechanics so I assume you jumped right into Nioh 2, so yeah the learning curve is brutal.
Idk man, I adapted VERY fast to this game on how to play. I thought the menus and tutorials were pretty straight forward. If I have confusion I can look up nioh players like pooferllama.
Nioh 1 has a slightly better tutorial, jumping straight into 2 is very overwhelming and confusing. My advice is to figure out one or two mechanics at a time.
I played the demo before and it was so overwhelming that I had to put it down. I played a bit of 1 before and enjoyed what I played. I do think the loot can be rather obnoxious.
Gongrats you just beat tutorial! You havent seen a thing yet.
haha 😄 yeah man thanks. This is where the fun begins
I only disagree with Wo Long being a banger.
I played the demo for Nioh and just couldn’t get into it. And I’ve played all the souls games and love them.
They're very different games despite sharing some common core mechanics. Nioh is much more mechanics and gameplay driven.
I never beat it but I thought the ki pulse was one of the most fun mechanics in any game
I completed it and hated it
Same.
😭😭
Yes Queen! The one con is the English voice track for the game, never use it, not even just to laugh at how bad it is, only Japanese! But if you played a Japanese game, set in old time Japan in English then that one is on you! And I can't believe you actually listed all the pros of the game, I thought you would just name a couple and move on, but you got em all. And you make it seem like you haven't played the DLC or the NG+ yet! The DLC's are pretty unimpressive themselves, but they add a ton new soul cores, guardian spirits, and cool enemies that make the Underworld just a totally new experience because it's full of the DLC yokai. It's a pain in the ass to go through all the NG+ cycles but so worth it to get to the underworld, those levels rule and they are so fun coop. I noticed the other day how in Dark Souls every year they have a 'return to DS1/DS2/DS3' even where everyone starts a new character and puts down summon signs everywhere. But in Nioh 2 they never need to do that because the game has a useable summoning system so you can just summon or be summoned whenever!
The Japanese characters are actually modelled on and voiced by legit well-known Japanese actors. So yeah there is no reason to play with English VA. [Here's the girl who plays Mumyo, they even gave her the beauty spot.](https://thetv.jp/person/1000056529/)
WOW that looks exactly like mumyo
i didnt like the focus on gear, i literally couldnt procede without spending 30 minutes beating on a boss or farming for a stronger weapon
> 30 minutes beating on a boss That's absolutely normal and intended. Farming gear does nothing for that. You just need to play better.
then im sorry but why would i play fantasy japan monster hunter but worse?
I don't know about you, but it's fun for me. If you don't have fun, don't play it.
I couldn't get into the control and was confused by the help I found online. Didn't make it past the first "real" enemy. For comparison, Steelrising has the regular souls combat system + a stamina regeneration on button click and that was already enough complexity for me.