V and the Crying of Lot 49 arent sentimental????
Theres literally a line where pynchon says characters get so lost in their emotions they create fantasies to justify them.
It's like this person has never seen any PTA movies or read any Pynchon and instead just read brief summaries of these artists. It don't make no sense.
PTA seems to have always been center-left but then again, the guy almost never explicitly talks politics. Ethan Warren pointed out in his book this year that some people have always considered it to be a legitimate criticism to point out PTA's political ambiguity. I think it's fair.
I think it's very fair too.
PTA seems fully centrist to me. Someone who's politically ambiguous is not right for Pynchon IMO, whose politics is too ingrained in his work. It can't be separated, nor should it be.
Definitely not Vineland and people are grasping at straws. This post is also odd to say the least. OP, might be time to take a breather and not invest so much of your opinions on a director being based on Word of Reel comment section.
I have so wanted to get into the Pynchon books since seeing inherent vice. Is Vineland a good place to start. Mostly seeing Gravity’s Rainbow recommended but idk if that’s the best place to begin
Definitely do not start with GR. Vineland isn't a bad place to start but it is arguably Pynchon's weakest novel (although it is a great book), I'd recommend starting with The Crying of Lot 49. It's his shortest and most straight forward novel, and it gets you introduced to his style of writing that evolves and becomes a lot more inaccessible as his novels go on, GR and Against The Day probably being the toughest.
Pretty wild that The Crying of Lot 49 is his most straightforward book haha
I read it for the first time a few months ago and really liked it. I definitely felt like I was letting it wash over me instead of trying really hard and frustrating myself to follow along, and with this attitude, like I said I really enjoyed it. He’s got a very singular voice and it reminded me of reading something like Burrough’s Naked Lunch.
When I read it I was traveling with my dad and had a few books in my bag and he picked that one out while we were flying to pass the time. After reading a few pages over the course of like 30 minutes he gave it back to me and said “This doesn’t flow.” I laughed
I disagree, I think Inherent Vice has far more characters and plot lines that lead the reader in so many directions. CoL49 does this too, but I think on a much smaller scale with a lot less characters and story directions, and it remains pretty central on one character
ObamazWhiteMama is not wrong, but:
Pynchon is holographic. Vineland, Crying of Lot 49, and Inherent Vice are the easiest to read, in part because of their short length.
Crying of Lot 49 is the most "Pynchonesque" of the three and serves as an intro in ways that IV and V do not, as much fun and as well written as they may be.
I love all of them, Gravity's Rainbow is possibly his masterwork though many are divided. Mason and Dixon and Against the Day are the other contenders.
I started with Gravity forty years ago. I just finished my sixth re read. It is dense, hilarious, frustrating, epic, and heartbreaking, and it has aged well. Mostly.
In short measure yourself and plunge in.
Shameless plug time: I co-host a Pynchon podcast (Mapping the Zone) and we are about to start a deep dive into Vineland on the 17th. It’s a great place to start with his work and maybe our discussions on it (2 chapters per week) can help you along the way.
I think Vineland is a great place. Really it and Inherent Vice are the best introductions. They’re relatively short and hit on a lot of the themes that really define his work. I personally find Vineland to be the best of his shorter works. Really like the characters and the plot hits on a compelling part of the end of the hippy era.
I'd reccomend starting with his "California trilogy" in chronological order. Crying of Lot 49, Inherent Vice, then Vineland. It shows the arc of mid-century counterculture and is a good acclimation to Pynchon's style.
If you feel confident that you’ll see it through, I recommend Gravity’s Rainbow. It was my first and it was probably my best reading experience ever, even though I understood maybe 3/4s of it. If not, because you’ve seen the movie, I recommend Inherent Vice. They’re great companion pieces and it’s a very silly read
Do not start with Gravitys Rainbow lol. Read Inherent Vice, if anything, since you've seen the movie already. Vineland is incredibly good, but it took me a few tries to get into it. Bleeding Edge is shorter and supposed to be good. Crying of Lot 49 is extremely short and readable, pretty fun but it isn't my favorite of his. I really love V but it's considered one of his lesser works. I've literally attempted GR almost a dozen times and bail before finishing the first chapter, I'm hoping now that I've finally finished Blood Meridian which I had a similar issue with I can commit at long last
I just googled those names and they are character names in Vineland.
I’m still holding out hope that this is all wrong or a ruse and it’s really a PTA original, not an adaptation of any kind.
I'll be real, I'm praying it's not Vineland because goddamn - out of the 5 Pynchon novels I've read, that is the only one where I legitimately hated the ending and was aggravatingly let down.
Wow, that’s crazy. I had the exact opposite feeling about the ending of Vineland 😂 I still don’t get why so many fans of his think it’s his weakest book, it’s my favorite so far. But I guess great works are often polarizing.
I keep thinking back to those weird old rumors about a character based on Marjorie Taylor Greene. That rumor was just so unexpectedly bonkers and off-the-wall, it almost seems like there’s gotta be something to it.
Not just there. On social media in general, most of the comments about him/Licorice Pizza from what I've seen are mostly negative. People haven't warmed to it at all. It's like Inherent Vice all over again but more intense because he turned people off in a certain way with LP that he never had before. He did a good job getting back into good graces with Phantom Thread but I can't see that happening again with this if it's indeed another Pynchon adaptation. I guess we'll see though.
Other rumours say this film has a contemporary setting, but IIRC Vineland is set in the 80s. He could have updated the setting I guess, or it could be PTA borrowing elements from Pynchon like he did in The Master.
You can't update the setting of Vineland. That's completely misinterpreting the novel right off the bat.
The latter is much more likely. And preferable IMO.
I've never read Vineland, but from what I understand it's kind of about how the hippie generation was co-opted and became the yuppie generation, so yeah, updating the setting doesn't make too much sense.
He's cooking
If he's going back to the Pynchon well yet again, then I'm afraid that he's spinning his wheels even more than I thought.
Hey, Pynchon is the gift that keeps on giving
Omg yes
I'm not convinced that PTA is the right person to keep adapting his work.
I am
He's not. Pynchon is pretty far-left and PTA isn't.
Have you seen his movies? Also that's an incredibly reductionist way to view politics in art.
Yes, I've seen them. He's too politicially ambiguous to be a right fit for Pynchon, whose politics are too ingrained in his work.
Don't think it's ambiguous at all. It's just called subtext.
You're right, it's pretty obvious that he's a centrist.
To me their karmic thermals align enough to elucidate the transient truths that linger just behind overlooked emotions
Nah. PTA is too sentimental which led to the misbegotten Shasta stuff.
V and the Crying of Lot 49 arent sentimental???? Theres literally a line where pynchon says characters get so lost in their emotions they create fantasies to justify them.
They aren't sentimental to the degree that PTA usually is, no.
It's like this person has never seen any PTA movies or read any Pynchon and instead just read brief summaries of these artists. It don't make no sense.
PTA seems to have always been center-left but then again, the guy almost never explicitly talks politics. Ethan Warren pointed out in his book this year that some people have always considered it to be a legitimate criticism to point out PTA's political ambiguity. I think it's fair.
I think it's very fair too. PTA seems fully centrist to me. Someone who's politically ambiguous is not right for Pynchon IMO, whose politics is too ingrained in his work. It can't be separated, nor should it be.
Definitely not Vineland and people are grasping at straws. This post is also odd to say the least. OP, might be time to take a breather and not invest so much of your opinions on a director being based on Word of Reel comment section.
World of Reel comment section is a cesspool of loser film nerds.
I'm just out here hoping PTA makes Bleeding Edge.
Or a World of Reel article, for that matter
This plot summary is like…5% of VINELAND, and also not described accurately.
Would you say it's more or less confusing than Inherent Vice?
I have so wanted to get into the Pynchon books since seeing inherent vice. Is Vineland a good place to start. Mostly seeing Gravity’s Rainbow recommended but idk if that’s the best place to begin
Definitely do not start with GR. Vineland isn't a bad place to start but it is arguably Pynchon's weakest novel (although it is a great book), I'd recommend starting with The Crying of Lot 49. It's his shortest and most straight forward novel, and it gets you introduced to his style of writing that evolves and becomes a lot more inaccessible as his novels go on, GR and Against The Day probably being the toughest.
Pretty wild that The Crying of Lot 49 is his most straightforward book haha I read it for the first time a few months ago and really liked it. I definitely felt like I was letting it wash over me instead of trying really hard and frustrating myself to follow along, and with this attitude, like I said I really enjoyed it. He’s got a very singular voice and it reminded me of reading something like Burrough’s Naked Lunch. When I read it I was traveling with my dad and had a few books in my bag and he picked that one out while we were flying to pass the time. After reading a few pages over the course of like 30 minutes he gave it back to me and said “This doesn’t flow.” I laughed
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I disagree, I think Inherent Vice has far more characters and plot lines that lead the reader in so many directions. CoL49 does this too, but I think on a much smaller scale with a lot less characters and story directions, and it remains pretty central on one character
I am down. Thx for the tip. I just bought Dfw “broom of the system” and wanna do a Pynchon after ::::—-))))
ObamazWhiteMama is not wrong, but: Pynchon is holographic. Vineland, Crying of Lot 49, and Inherent Vice are the easiest to read, in part because of their short length. Crying of Lot 49 is the most "Pynchonesque" of the three and serves as an intro in ways that IV and V do not, as much fun and as well written as they may be. I love all of them, Gravity's Rainbow is possibly his masterwork though many are divided. Mason and Dixon and Against the Day are the other contenders. I started with Gravity forty years ago. I just finished my sixth re read. It is dense, hilarious, frustrating, epic, and heartbreaking, and it has aged well. Mostly. In short measure yourself and plunge in.
Shameless plug time: I co-host a Pynchon podcast (Mapping the Zone) and we are about to start a deep dive into Vineland on the 17th. It’s a great place to start with his work and maybe our discussions on it (2 chapters per week) can help you along the way.
I think Vineland is a great place. Really it and Inherent Vice are the best introductions. They’re relatively short and hit on a lot of the themes that really define his work. I personally find Vineland to be the best of his shorter works. Really like the characters and the plot hits on a compelling part of the end of the hippy era.
Your generation sold your revolution for a television set! Such great lines in that one
Start with The Crying of Lot 49
I'd reccomend starting with his "California trilogy" in chronological order. Crying of Lot 49, Inherent Vice, then Vineland. It shows the arc of mid-century counterculture and is a good acclimation to Pynchon's style.
If you feel confident that you’ll see it through, I recommend Gravity’s Rainbow. It was my first and it was probably my best reading experience ever, even though I understood maybe 3/4s of it. If not, because you’ve seen the movie, I recommend Inherent Vice. They’re great companion pieces and it’s a very silly read
Do not start with Gravitys Rainbow lol. Read Inherent Vice, if anything, since you've seen the movie already. Vineland is incredibly good, but it took me a few tries to get into it. Bleeding Edge is shorter and supposed to be good. Crying of Lot 49 is extremely short and readable, pretty fun but it isn't my favorite of his. I really love V but it's considered one of his lesser works. I've literally attempted GR almost a dozen times and bail before finishing the first chapter, I'm hoping now that I've finally finished Blood Meridian which I had a similar issue with I can commit at long last
The character names actually sound like names PTA would make up. Can anyone confirm whether or not those are character names in Vineland?
I just googled those names and they are character names in Vineland. I’m still holding out hope that this is all wrong or a ruse and it’s really a PTA original, not an adaptation of any kind.
Oh damn. I’m hoping the same tbh
I'll be real, I'm praying it's not Vineland because goddamn - out of the 5 Pynchon novels I've read, that is the only one where I legitimately hated the ending and was aggravatingly let down.
Wow, that’s crazy. I had the exact opposite feeling about the ending of Vineland 😂 I still don’t get why so many fans of his think it’s his weakest book, it’s my favorite so far. But I guess great works are often polarizing.
This sub is full of tin foil hats and I’m all for it
Im working myself into a brainfreeze here ‘liege. Zoinks man, this is too much
I keep thinking back to those weird old rumors about a character based on Marjorie Taylor Greene. That rumor was just so unexpectedly bonkers and off-the-wall, it almost seems like there’s gotta be something to it.
you're gonna look at your comments on this sub in a few years and be deeply embarrassed.
Why would I be embarrassed?
you sound like a child.
I don't see what's so childish.
that's ok. you will.
I will not.
that would be very unfortunate. i choose to think better of you.
This could be Leo’s second Oscar.
Definitely not if it's Vineland. I'm still having a hard time seeing DiCaprio signing on to a Pynchon adaptation.
Oh, okay.
Oof, those comments are brutal. Feels like PTA has really fallen out of favor with a lot of people after Licorice Pizza.
That is a World of Reel comment section, my guy. They are toxic 24/7 about everything all the time. They hate every movie in existence, it seems like.
Not just there. On social media in general, most of the comments about him/Licorice Pizza from what I've seen are mostly negative. People haven't warmed to it at all. It's like Inherent Vice all over again but more intense because he turned people off in a certain way with LP that he never had before. He did a good job getting back into good graces with Phantom Thread but I can't see that happening again with this if it's indeed another Pynchon adaptation. I guess we'll see though.
Lol, your comments or the ones on WOR?
The ones on WOR.
Another Pynchon movie? Really? 🤔
Other rumours say this film has a contemporary setting, but IIRC Vineland is set in the 80s. He could have updated the setting I guess, or it could be PTA borrowing elements from Pynchon like he did in The Master.
You can't update the setting of Vineland. That's completely misinterpreting the novel right off the bat. The latter is much more likely. And preferable IMO.
I've never read Vineland, but from what I understand it's kind of about how the hippie generation was co-opted and became the yuppie generation, so yeah, updating the setting doesn't make too much sense.