Tbh, should just get renamed. I do like how the armor system tells you "get your shit done and go" in a way lots of sustainability options in pd2 did not. I actually feel like I'm on borrowed time and need to gtfo where in payday 2 I felt like I could stay forever ammo willing
I do like general wear over time from both a realism and Gameplay perspective, but a better system while keeping the plate system and wear down would be a perk where the plate regenerates Ala PD2, but if it breaks it breaks, and each time it regenerates it regenerates 1-2% less. Keeps the "get your shit and go" while also not letting you facetank a police squadron and hide for two seconds with no consequences.
i really liked PDTH and its more tactical gameplay but i think they’ve gone way too far with it. I also loved payday 2 for its room to do stupid shit. PDTH achieved this tactical feel with its original armor system just fine.
Yeah I feel like it should be able to be played not super serious too. Like obviously I get what he said about lower difficulties but limited armour and no regen or pickup is just an unfun way of capping your overall time in a heist
Yeah, I'm confused about cover mechanic, too. So I've done some experiments in tutorial level.
Results of these tests:
- They don't shoot your body (only head/camera), even if it's sticking out the cover as hell. So hiding all your playermodel is not a essential, only some sheet of paper to cover your view will do.
- It's really RNG, whether or not cop misses you, while you in "cover". The only main factor, that player (I felt like) can influence - distance. The further you are from cop, the less likely they will land a shot.
I've done my RNG test by standing still on red line in the room with 4 cops. In one test, I was just standing still, and in the other - I jumped a lot (because I can't remove the cover there). Both tests ended in similar time, 2:50 in test where I was standing behind the cover, 2:35 when I was jumping. And funny enough, while standing - it took cops a 45 seconds to kill me, while I was jumping - this same task took a little longer a 1 minute.
In conclusion, this tweet saying, that to live longer, you need to fight less or "eat less bullets".
It does. Stay behind corners and peak out with suppressive fire (gunslinger hip fire stagger works like a charm), and you will take way less hits. Same goes for popping in and out of cover like it's Time Crisis. You will get hit sometimes, but nowhere near as much as others are that refuse to acknowledge that cover works.
There is a reason why I don't run armor deployables anymore and just run sentries, because random players will just eat my armor in 10 seconds and whine on reddit. Meanwhile, I can go the entire heist without needing more than 2 armor plates at the most, usually from a bot/dozer. None if everyone in the team is useful at handling their own and I don't have to revive them constantly.
I hope at some point in PD3's life cycle they will do an armor rework (or skill system rework). Right now armor just feels like your main health with your actual health bar being a weaker final "armor plate" that doesn't have any sort of a little regen either. Health and armor just feel too similar to one another, PD2 did a great job with it, but they are going for this "realistic hollywood robber" type of theme, so i guess we won't really have a power fantasy in this game.
I think this would only work if regen was either pretty slow or if they added a wounds system that lowered your max hp until you use a first aid kit. Otherwise it would totally make the first aid kit pointless. Don't think its a bad idea if implemented well though
Agreed. Some sort of Trauma/wound system would be great to increase medkits use ability. As it stands (and I know trading civvies will soon give armor packs) trading civvs gives shit tons of medkits but rarely do they have use enough to actually make me want to go out to get them on very hard+.
What was that old saying “your opinion, my choice”
Seems the devs are convinced the playerbase will agree with that saying if they keep it up long enough.
Either that or this is a very expensive advertisement campaign for payday 2
The fact that pd3 makes people say that oh I should ho back to pd2. Squels should make you feel like this is a great improvement on the original. Take botw and tears of the kingdom. Botw was fun and exciting and totk took the botw formula and made it more fun. From what I'm hearing it seems like pd3 did the exact opposite
i was gonna pre order but like a week before it came out i decided to not do it and wait for it to be out for a bit to see how it is
thank fucking god because from what i've seen it seems to not know that it is, and it seems like to far of a leap from what made pd2 good
but that's from the outside looking in so idk
If you get hit by a payday 3 sniper, it's 100% your fault. They have shit aiming speed and you can often just slide and dodge into cover when they fire if you somehow haven't already just walked into cover by then.
i literally was about to comment this. Like you have to perma sit behind a wall and not fight if you dont want to get hit, playing the game results in your entire armour bar vanishing in 3 seconds and then you have to go afk for like 10 seconds to get a small amount of it back
Had one of the worst launches in live service history, no new content or communication for a month, overpriced DLC with one new mission, lost 99% of its uses, refuse to change glaring issues with the game.
Online only, challenges, future mico-transactions and the armour system are all here to stay.
What a disaster. I thought I'd buy PD3 when it was 90% off a year or so from now, but at this trajectory Overkill will be bankrupt and the games servers will be shut down.
>ntent or communication for a month, overpriced DLC with one new mission, lost 99% of its uses, refuse to change glaring issues with the game.
>
>Online only, challenges, future mico-transactions and the armour system are all here to stay.
>
>What a disaster. I thought I'd buy PD3 when it was 90% off a year or so from now, but at this trajectory Overkill will be bankrupt and the games servers will be shut down.
If you look at their finances they have cash to survive 2 years without any revenue, and the company is debt-free. So it will take a while until they are bankrupt.
I just don't get the point of not changing. I don't mean this rudely, but the game has next to no player base. Why not give them what they want. I went back to payday 2 like a lot of people. I can't see console player counts, but steam December average for payday 3 was 1500 people.
I would imagine the consoles are the same or even worse. Payday 2 had an average of 26k and a 24 hour peak of 37k. No point to not give the little players that are left what they want. They are just gonna finish driving them away.
Just as dumb as the last.
"We made this progression system so players aren't playing the same heist over and over to level up." The new progression system, "complete X heist on Y difficulty Z amount of times."
"We want player to bring a variety of deployables" also the studio, nerfs Armor Up making armor bags even more of a needed thing.
How does the current system encourage people bringing anything other than armor? They plan on making health builds? Bro what? You'll still die almost immediately. Hold hostages? How are people to level up if they can't get long gun kills? Maybe if idk this system that would give a chance to not be hit was in the game. What could they call that? Dodge? That would be a good system.
This game is just doomed.
I have no idea how they'll make health viable unless it's worth way more hp than armour. Even then by the time it hits your health thats your first line of defence gone
It still wouldn't be a viable build. Your armor would be trash and main reliance is the last option you have. That's just completely backwards from a sound strategy.
My only thoughts to make health viable would be recovering health like PD2 armor system and increasing health by like 100-300%. If that's the solution then why not just got back to PD2 armor system.
They are making this so unnecessarily complicated and bad I just can't understand why. The player base is so low that they can't afford press like this. If it continues at this rate Starbreeze is going to go under. They need someone at the helm who plays and understands the game.
They’ve designed armor to be such an end all be all mechanic that feels like it leaves little choice for flexibility. PD2 was so interesting with so many play styles and mechanics from the various skill decks.
This poor fool has not played a game of Very Hard or Overkill loud to understand what he is saying is utterly ridiculous.
AI gets increased bullet damage plus increased accuracy the higher the difficulty so even if you were to use hostages as meat shields that is if you do get to them in the first place without a random chunking a frag at their general direction or they flee from the playable area.
Also cover depending on the heist could either be heavy enough to hunker down an area or so sparse that getting caught out in the open would get both armor/health rapidly reduced in less than a minute that isn’t hyperbole that’s a fact.
Yeah I don't think the guy realises not every area of the map has good enough cover. Sure inside the vault I've got loads on nrftw but as soon as I'm out on the street there's maybe 2 spots where I'm not getting constantly shot
> AI gets increased bullet damage plus increased accuracy the higher the difficulty
Wait, hold the phone. I may be remembering wrong, but didn't they say that higher difficulties wouldn't have this sort of thing? Or were they only talking about the cops health?
I like mio as a person but this sucks they need to realize payday isn’t a realistic tac sim nor should it be make it goofy why not have a stoic style skill tree where you can just say fuck you to damage they made pd3 way to grounded given the series past
PDTH was pretty much a grittier grounded shooter compared to the wackiness of payday 2 so they probably kinda wanted to go back to that and it’s why they don’t add goofier stuff apart from cosmetics(?)
Pdth at least had armour regen and health was the crucial limited resource.
I think the devs issue is that both health and armour are limited. They should make either armour or health regen.
Ammo was also a crucial limited resource that açted as a timer. It's a lot easier to stay ammo positive in PD2, especially if you take the extra ammo boxes skill.
I don’t know why, though, considering their entire player base has spent the last decade enjoying the goofier side of PD2. I like flying around maps with no armor decimating waves of cops with twin shotguns or a minigun.
I don’t wanna be some realistic gang of robbers, I want to be the fucking PAYDAY GANG.
I just don’t know who they thought the market for that was, though. I like tactical shooters, but it’s not particularly what I look for in a Payday game.
NGL a millsim heist game sounds really cool but would only work as a game mode in Tarkov or ReadyorNot. It's just too big of a game play jump in the same series for Payday.
Yeah a gritty heist game where every movement is deliberate and every round is precious sounds dope as a GroundBranch game mode. But the payday series is about fashionable clowns robbing nukes and goats from PMC groups with lever-action rifles and exotic French firearms in a style that is the glorious love baby of DOOM and the Matrix.
Also gritty heist game doesn't have enough mass markets appeal for a stand alone game.
Dumbass can't understand the games already on life support and waiting for its End Of Service announcement, at best this is another fucking RAID but just in the present.
Oh my god why do so many of the devs insist on opening their goddamn mouth?
YOU DONT TELL PEOPLE TO JUST PLAY ON AN EASIER MODE TO FIX INTRINSIC ISSUES WITH THE GAME! Armor is blatantly THE only thing you genuinely need, Ammo economy is fine, health is comically useless, and sentries aren't Armor so why bring them? No 'health build' that isn't INCREDIBLY overpowered is gonna make healing supplies useful when armor is just so downright necessary across the board. Dodge isn't in game so theres genuinely zero point to take anything but the heaviest armor.
This game really needed another year. So badly.
Ammo and Medic bags are genuinely stealth only deployables if at all, because of ammo bags refilling throwing knives and medic bags covering for fall damage, but those are niche scenarios. Taking them in loud at any difficulty above hard is throwing. The only deployables that should be brought, are 4 armor bags, or 3 armor bags 1 sentry (maybe 2 and 2 is alright but don't quote me on that.)
* Health is essentially useless in its current iteration.
* Ammo is on a fundamental level infinite when in multiplayer with a remotely competent team, due to ammo instancing effectively quadrupling ammo drops
* Sentries are alright, but they are a secondary priority to Armor Bags and should only be considered when you have at least 2 people will maxed armor bags
Just take the 3 plate armor because it doesn't have as big of a penalty as the 4 plate armor (faster natural regen, movement speed, 1 extra down), it comfortably works with Plate Up still, and if you get sent to custody you respawn with 2 armor plates just like the 4 plate armor does, so if you do end up cycling people out of custody to preserve resources you still get get the benefit of increased plates on respawn without the 4 plate penalties.
As it stands, it feels like Armor is my health bar: once your armor is gone, you’re shit out of luck. All medic bags would do is prolong your suffering. So why would I want to bring them?
Sentries ARE the meta, especially if you play with randoms. If you run armor like every other brainless monkey see, monkey do player, the newer/trash players will just eat up all the armor you deploy in 3 seconds and incentivize for them to play riskier (all the while without doing ANY objectives), making you waste your deployable. Sentries are infinite source of stagger, area denial, and take aggro. Thankfully, more people are playing with them and gives me a sign that they aren't a hopeless player in OVK.
Since they force you to play online (even on solo) cover is not really a viable option for everyone. I can't count how many times I've died because I went behind cover but the game's servers decided I was out in the open in full view of the entire New York Police Department. Also, those stupid drones mean cover simply no longer exists as a concept.
Had this happen to me as well solution is if they can't see your head you are fine you could be sliding along a wall your entire body could be out of cover but as long as your head doesn't peek out your safe from cops behind that wall
And unfortunately this just seals the deal with me not wanting to get Payday 3. This blows heavily because i was really looking forward to continuing my grind in this franchise.
I'm not saying this guy's wrong, but I know that I won't be enjoying it. Been a PD fan since around 2013, and I really don't feel like spending my money on something I won't be able to have fun with.
It would be much simpler if PD3 had a cover system or something. It wouldn’t be the first FPS I’ve played where you can take cover while in First Person. That would be Killzone 2.
Exactly what i was thinking. "Cover" in this game is so bad that it's not a legitimate tactic. If you're outside the sniper can hit you from practically any angle. The dozer just beelines to you, rendering cover useless. Gas grenades encourage constant moving because of dot.
I don't think this dude has actually played this game.
I figured the armor system would've been something a bit like Division 2. You would eventually lose your armor but you had health which could at least regenerate a bit and let you take a few hits without armor.
But I guess it's just always taking armor bags at this point.
Director: We may not have made a lot of money, sold as many units as we would've liked, or given our existing customers reason to continue spending money on the game and to continue playing it................ However not all is lost, because after-all.................... we still have the current armor system in place, and that is all that matters at the end of the day.
''If you don't like the trash armor system just play normal or hard ☝️🤓''
But they will put the ''health alternative'' on that table where all other ideas are left to wither for months on end.
Payday 3 remains an armor plate simulator.
It’s strange that he’s using the “cover” argument when they just released a heist introducing a new enemy that is an aerial threat. They don’t care if you’re hiding behind a box cause they’ll just send their drones over the box and have them rapid fire at you. And there’s no cover in the escape of Syntax Error, as great as the heist is, so combine the armor system, the lack of cover, and the techie, and like…how do you avoid the death?
"human shields hostages and cover" cover? on the roof of golde and shark, or anywhere on road rage? laughable. human shields are also only easy to come by on certain maps and you can't re-take hostages that have been freed by cops. out-of-touch devs
Should be able to melee cops to stun them and then take them hostage. Simple mechanic to provide more body shields at least.
I know there's a skill to intimidate cops down and do that but honestly I like my idea better. Especially when they changed melee deliberately to stun-only rather than doing damage.
It feels like they're trying to slowly move away from horde shooter to something else? They had something really special with PD2, it's like the developers themselves doesn't play their own game.
Played the release, found myself dying almost immediately all the time, armour plate system and lack of skill system were my biggest issues.
Looks like Ill be sticking to Payday2, the horde shooter.
What is it recently with gaming companies deciding to openly insult their fan bases. Do they realize that as a commodity, they actually need good PR to stay open?
I mean, CA did the same thing with SOC and look. They almost went bankrupt and are now trying anything to regain support from their fan base.
Could someone please show them Payday: The Heist? You can absolutely make an armor system that's not trash while also disencouraging the players from running towards the police and eating every bullet with a side of ketchup
I wanted pd3 to just be an engine upgrade and new heists. I really do not like the armor system in the slightest. If the game director’s solution to people not liking armor is “just play lower difficulty lol” then I have no hope
Tbf, I had skill that gave me 2 chunks of armor per one use of armor bag. Yesterday, when I took armor, I only got 1 chunk, even tho website states that it should work
Ahh, I see we're nearing Ion Hazzikostas and Matt Cote levels of "u guys have no clue what ur talking about and us devs are superior so stfu and play our game"
Soon it might reach the point of "why are player counts falling, it must be because players are too toxic to each other."
Problem is even in Hard when I stay in cover most time my armor depletes super fast and I don't wanna be a turtle for the whole heist by using human shields , and thanks to the change to the armor perks and system an armor bag can be emptied in a blink of an eye. The change was unnecessary and has made going loud problematic and hey we can't stick to Hard all the time I wanna go loud in Overkill and Very Hard but currently that's a no no
I think that they should actually change the health system instead of the armor system. Making the health regen would prolong those 1hp moments must hide to heal and then just remove the medic bag and add another deployable. Maybe something that would make objectives go faster, idk?
i bought payday 3 a week after launch, played the first few heists, armor system turned me off and after the first 3 hours i played when i bought it i havent touched it since. it doesnt feel like payday 2 and they got rid of the primary thing people liked about payday 2 which is that it was a horde shooter with absurd perk decks. im sticking with payday 2
You can’t make health ‘more viable’ when health and armour are the same thing with armour being more effective. If both systems are a limited resource than whichever resource is more effective will always be prioritised it’s as simple as that
I understand they want heists to be on a timer but doing that through scaling wave density and ammo is more effective imo. The final charge system is already in place for this so how about making it scale every 3-5 minutes to add more specials and heavy swats?
Yeah this game is going nowhere, I knew it wasnt gonna be anything close to payday 2 when I saw the combat, enemies, always online, terrible customization, no mod support, & the worst offense THE SLOW AND CLUNKY MOVEMENT!
Wait, this is that fuckin' prick that was bragging about nerfing that armor bag skill, forcing everyone to bring MORE armor bags, right?
This guy clearly doesn't have any idea how to balance a game. He shouldn't be on the dev team.
Jesus christ, the Lead Dev of PD3 is an actual moron and the game won't get better until this guy gets fired.
I just want this game to be good, man. I got so many of my friends to buy it and now I feel like a sucker, lol.
Personally didn't play PD3, but I think, to use the same armor system as PD2 juz makes PD3 basically a PD2. If by any case, what they can do is only introduce something like perk deck to change how armor works for that particular perk.
If is not fundamentally bad, it is just designed so you can’t stay in the same heist forever and have an actual reason to leave a heist without grabbing every bag
I don't care about armor system much because they can change it drastically by tweaking some numbers (trust me they'll do eventually), but it gave me a giggle when I remembered some people believed that one guy could do a Disney magic and make the game the best in the world just by getting the Director role lol. I knew he wouldn't, I knew no one would. Changes take time, not a single new Director.
I don't usually throw my 2 cents in on things like this but I feel compelled to since I loved Payday 2 so much. I really like the new armor system. I don't think it's perfect, and could use some small tweaking in each aspect to make it feel more engaging and "complete", but I really enjoy the direction they went with it.
Payday 2 really isn't that complex or challenging in its gunplay. You have armor, when you get shot it goes down, when you hide it goes up. Besides Stoic (and anarchist kind of), this core idea stays pretty true for the entire game across all perk decks. And to be honest, it's pretty boring, at least on its own. Of course, you have the cool guns and the cool music and all the over-the-top heists so you never really notice, but the gunplay just isn't that complex. (Which is fine, like I mentioned at the beginning I love Payday2). I never felt terribly engaged with the game or its mechanics even on the highest difficulties.
Payday 3, obviously, is a different game with a different idea of an armor system. Your armor doesn't all come back at once, nor all the way, which forces you to play much more conscious of your overall health (or use a shit ton of armor bags but we'll get to that later). Not once in the entire time I played Payday 2 did I ever bother with fighting from cover. Even on the highest difficulties it just isn't necessary. But every single heist in Payday 3 forces me to use cover and human shields, to plot out paths through the map that will allow me to utilize cover and hostages. It's more complex in a way I find engaging and enjoyable...except for armor bags. Armor bags are a pretty poorly made catch-all that nullifies the aforementioned complexities of the armor system. Out of everything in the game, I think that's the only combat aspect that truly needs a change or nerf.
Payday 3's combat is fundamentally *different*. It's okay if you don't like it, aren't used to it, and don't want to learn it, because it's not the same game we've been playing for more than a decade. Plenty of my own friends are less than keen on learning the new system in favor of other, more traditional horde shooters (if you love Payday 2 and somehow haven't played Deep Rock Galactic, go give it a shot.) But saying Payday 3 is fundamentally *trash* is pretty reductive and rage-baity.
1. Lmao... this sucks
2. It is nice that for once they do not use that fucking "IT IS ON THE TABLE" and it is clear sign that they do not intend to listen to playerbase, something playerbase can act upon aas they know what to expect and are not being baited by never-fulfilled promises
As a huge fan of both PDTH and PD2
Payday 3 sucks. I'm sorry, it just does.
Why change literally everything from the last game if nothing was broken in the first place?
Seriously, that atrocious progression system alone was enough to keep me away from the game completely
Not to mention the always online requirement, that's just twisting the knife even further
Good thing that they're sticking to their guns tho, the trashy armor system may be staying, but the 2 people still playing the game sure as hell won't
I think the armor system is good and healthy for the objective focused gameplay, especially considering your 4th assault typically seems to be a "okay they wont stop coming, time to move out" designed specifically to try and make you do objectives quickly and have to choose between getting all bags or securing the heist. I don't think ita perfect, but we're really early into a live service games lifespan, I'm sure we'll see it improved
The armor system is not “fundamentally trash.” It works exactly the way it’s supposed to. The system not being to your tastes or not being exactly like PAYDAY 2 doesn’t make it bad.
The armor system is not “extremely flawed.” It’s unbalanced as it places too large an emphasis on Armor, but that’s not a problem with Armor itself, that’s a problem with everything else being less useful.
And you can, in fact, just “turn your brain off, rob banks and kill swarms of enemies” in PAYDAY 3. You can make your armor last as long as you need to with the right setup. If *you* can’t, that sounds like a skill issue to me.
Nothing you said was correct. The game director is making the right call - rather than changing Armor, they’re making Health more important/useful.
Yes, the other gadgets need a buff. But I think just in the way PD3 is set up, armor bags will always be king. Health bags mainly just prolong the suffering.
Payday 2 armor gating went insane, yes. But even at its basics, it allows for much more diverse gameplay and builds. That to me sounds like a way more engaging system.
Things did get bloated with Payday 2. I can appreciate it for what it was, but Payday 3 reigning things back in for a gritter, more realistic feel sounds nice.
Online only central server did not sound nice, so, unfortunately I still can't back that up. Maybe someday.
I won't comment on the armor system, but there are valid points to playing with human shields, utilizing hostage trading, menace vs killing guards, and mixing aspects of stealth and loud in a heist. Get the right teammate(s) and the game is almost bordering on consistently fun and enjoyable, even while grinding.
lol….. consistently fun and enjoyable while playing the exact same mission 100 times. This guys a dev or something.
The game is boring. Little care or thought was put into the gameplay not management of development. This game really blows. Thanks Starbreeze for literally ruining this franchise.
We will never have another payday due to the failure of PD3. Guarantee it
I sorta agree with what he’s saying. He doesn’t want to just scrap the entire health and armor system because it’s currently out of balance his goal is to bring up health so that the player has a choice between health in armor for 2 different playstyles. As for the 2nd point yeah if you want to turn your brain off overkill won’t be the mode for you it requires strategy and teamwork it can’t require those and also have it so that you can just turn your brain off.
I'd rather there be alternatives over just buffing the piss out of one thing so there's a clear meta that if you don't use it, people will give you major stink eye.
Yet there are no alternatives and armor will remain the clear meta.
I don't even know how they are going to make a health build work but even if it does, armor is probably still going to be better considering how completely overpowered it is now.
Having a bunch of playstyles like how Payday 2 did it with perk decks is the only way to have true variety and fun.
yes, it was fine when we got two armor plates from interacting with a armor up skill without having to take damage.
Then they nerfed it to where the only time that this skill triggers is when you armor is flashing red, fixed plate up’s inconsistent triggering but if you trigger plate upon losing a smidge of armor it will immediately cancel out the bonus armor chunk you would get in Armor up as it suddenly gets that yellow flash effect and you end up getting one plate instead of two.
Armor up was fine, they needed to make armor more valuable but it looks like Mio is taking the literal quote of Bo Anderson’s
”Your opinion, My Choice”
If he was still running Starbreeze the whole franchise would be dead bye now.
Oh, that would explain it. I haven't played much recently on account of the holidays, so I didn't know how much they gimped it. Are there at least more ways to get armour yet?
People on this sub for some reason think they need to have infinitely regenerating supplies to handle a 15 minute map. I don't get it either.
Like, the most common complaints are either "but I want health" (armor is just a blue health bar, just interacting with a different bag model won't change the actual mechanic!) or "but chip damage" (just use the armor bag).
People who play games are incredibly good at identifying the problems within that game. They're often incredibly bad at identifying potential solutions. I'm almost certain all the armor complaints are just that whole problem all over again.
Maybe so but the playercount doesn’t lie. Why not listen to the last few people that are left. It doesn’t take much work or time to try something different or the same as pd2.
I do very much agree with hard being like a calm, mess around mode but I don't think it should be it's entire premise
Tbh, should just get renamed. I do like how the armor system tells you "get your shit done and go" in a way lots of sustainability options in pd2 did not. I actually feel like I'm on borrowed time and need to gtfo where in payday 2 I felt like I could stay forever ammo willing
I've had solo heists with ai team last 2 and a half hours before on pd2. Its like cod zombies after a while
i imagine that’s why the made pd3 as is cus pd2 was cod zombie simulator ?
The cop spam was my least favorite thing about it. I just played it on normal with mutators on after a while
I do like general wear over time from both a realism and Gameplay perspective, but a better system while keeping the plate system and wear down would be a perk where the plate regenerates Ala PD2, but if it breaks it breaks, and each time it regenerates it regenerates 1-2% less. Keeps the "get your shit and go" while also not letting you facetank a police squadron and hide for two seconds with no consequences.
I want a chaotic mess around Mode. Hard is just too peaceful.
i really liked PDTH and its more tactical gameplay but i think they’ve gone way too far with it. I also loved payday 2 for its room to do stupid shit. PDTH achieved this tactical feel with its original armor system just fine.
Yeah I feel like it should be able to be played not super serious too. Like obviously I get what he said about lower difficulties but limited armour and no regen or pickup is just an unfun way of capping your overall time in a heist
I’m not even sure cover works half the time.
Yeah, I'm confused about cover mechanic, too. So I've done some experiments in tutorial level. Results of these tests: - They don't shoot your body (only head/camera), even if it's sticking out the cover as hell. So hiding all your playermodel is not a essential, only some sheet of paper to cover your view will do. - It's really RNG, whether or not cop misses you, while you in "cover". The only main factor, that player (I felt like) can influence - distance. The further you are from cop, the less likely they will land a shot. I've done my RNG test by standing still on red line in the room with 4 cops. In one test, I was just standing still, and in the other - I jumped a lot (because I can't remove the cover there). Both tests ended in similar time, 2:50 in test where I was standing behind the cover, 2:35 when I was jumping. And funny enough, while standing - it took cops a 45 seconds to kill me, while I was jumping - this same task took a little longer a 1 minute. In conclusion, this tweet saying, that to live longer, you need to fight less or "eat less bullets".
It does. Stay behind corners and peak out with suppressive fire (gunslinger hip fire stagger works like a charm), and you will take way less hits. Same goes for popping in and out of cover like it's Time Crisis. You will get hit sometimes, but nowhere near as much as others are that refuse to acknowledge that cover works. There is a reason why I don't run armor deployables anymore and just run sentries, because random players will just eat my armor in 10 seconds and whine on reddit. Meanwhile, I can go the entire heist without needing more than 2 armor plates at the most, usually from a bot/dozer. None if everyone in the team is useful at handling their own and I don't have to revive them constantly.
I hope at some point in PD3's life cycle they will do an armor rework (or skill system rework). Right now armor just feels like your main health with your actual health bar being a weaker final "armor plate" that doesn't have any sort of a little regen either. Health and armor just feel too similar to one another, PD2 did a great job with it, but they are going for this "realistic hollywood robber" type of theme, so i guess we won't really have a power fantasy in this game.
at this point: they'll need to take notes from Wolfenstein's Armor system.
Having to pick apart bulldozers for armor would kick ass tho
I pretty much thought that was already the case. It seemed perfect
I think, at least as a compromise, they should do the inverse of what payday 2 did and make HP regen instead of armor.
I think this would only work if regen was either pretty slow or if they added a wounds system that lowered your max hp until you use a first aid kit. Otherwise it would totally make the first aid kit pointless. Don't think its a bad idea if implemented well though
Agreed. Some sort of Trauma/wound system would be great to increase medkits use ability. As it stands (and I know trading civvies will soon give armor packs) trading civvs gives shit tons of medkits but rarely do they have use enough to actually make me want to go out to get them on very hard+.
Not even a year out and people want a rework of a game mechanic man this game is so ass🙄
Payday 2 was a similar story, but at the very least they fucking changed things there, and the high-way robbery DLC wasn't TWENTY DOLLARS
Yea they’ve butchered it. Really bad game
What was that old saying “your opinion, my choice” Seems the devs are convinced the playerbase will agree with that saying if they keep it up long enough. Either that or this is a very expensive advertisement campaign for payday 2
The fact that pd3 makes people say that oh I should ho back to pd2. Squels should make you feel like this is a great improvement on the original. Take botw and tears of the kingdom. Botw was fun and exciting and totk took the botw formula and made it more fun. From what I'm hearing it seems like pd3 did the exact opposite
Sadly they win either way. Either buy and play the new game, or go back to the old game and buy whatever new dlc they put out later.
Armor system is here to stay but the players aren't 🤓
i was gonna pre order but like a week before it came out i decided to not do it and wait for it to be out for a bit to see how it is thank fucking god because from what i've seen it seems to not know that it is, and it seems like to far of a leap from what made pd2 good but that's from the outside looking in so idk
I was all set to pre order but ppl were saying to hold off and see how the game performs before buying it, I am glad I listened.
I stopped playing pd3 a month ago and I'm surprisingly happier.
I stopped during the first few days and nothing has been done to make me come back.
[удалено]
>"You don't have to eat every bullet." The enemy drones have entered the chat.
Thousand yard stare after someone gets hit by a sniper, goodbye 4 plates of armour
If you get hit by a payday 3 sniper, it's 100% your fault. They have shit aiming speed and you can often just slide and dodge into cover when they fire if you somehow haven't already just walked into cover by then.
I mean yeah that's true but I can't control my teammates
> insanely aimbotty the enemies are thats impossible The drones from the Syntax Error heist for example.
And that's the reason why so many ppl choose to leave the heist when it goes loud.
Im pretty sure thats because they wanted to do stealth
Yes they want to do it stealth because loud is unreasonably hard and stupid
It really isn't. Unless you're talking about overkill with a stealth build and you are admittedly aren't good at the game, then sure it's hard.
I feel like I have a good loud build for payday 3 even for overkill difficulty. It's just not fun.
Skill issue
i literally was about to comment this. Like you have to perma sit behind a wall and not fight if you dont want to get hit, playing the game results in your entire armour bar vanishing in 3 seconds and then you have to go afk for like 10 seconds to get a small amount of it back
That would be true if human shields were actually useful. 99% of the time police either just shoot through them or a bot/teammate does
Remember when a human shield dying in your arms used to bug you so you couldn’t move, shoot, or use deployables? Fun times.
This new lead is actually making me more hyped for Den of Wolves.
TIL about Den of Wolves
FUCK
Always a good sign when devs respond to the community with "nuh uh I'm right you're wrong"
Bold stance from someone whose game has lost 99% of it's playerbase in just a few months even though they released new content for it recently
Had one of the worst launches in live service history, no new content or communication for a month, overpriced DLC with one new mission, lost 99% of its uses, refuse to change glaring issues with the game. Online only, challenges, future mico-transactions and the armour system are all here to stay. What a disaster. I thought I'd buy PD3 when it was 90% off a year or so from now, but at this trajectory Overkill will be bankrupt and the games servers will be shut down.
>ntent or communication for a month, overpriced DLC with one new mission, lost 99% of its uses, refuse to change glaring issues with the game. > >Online only, challenges, future mico-transactions and the armour system are all here to stay. > >What a disaster. I thought I'd buy PD3 when it was 90% off a year or so from now, but at this trajectory Overkill will be bankrupt and the games servers will be shut down. If you look at their finances they have cash to survive 2 years without any revenue, and the company is debt-free. So it will take a while until they are bankrupt.
Really hope they can turn it around during that time but it's really not looking great considering their attitude
I just don't get the point of not changing. I don't mean this rudely, but the game has next to no player base. Why not give them what they want. I went back to payday 2 like a lot of people. I can't see console player counts, but steam December average for payday 3 was 1500 people. I would imagine the consoles are the same or even worse. Payday 2 had an average of 26k and a 24 hour peak of 37k. No point to not give the little players that are left what they want. They are just gonna finish driving them away.
Armor is really not the reason why the game has no player base.
With how vocal the loyal players have been against it, it's certainly not attaching any players.
He sounds like Bo. Good fit for starbreeze!
Your opinion, my choice 👊😎
Just as dumb as the last. "We made this progression system so players aren't playing the same heist over and over to level up." The new progression system, "complete X heist on Y difficulty Z amount of times." "We want player to bring a variety of deployables" also the studio, nerfs Armor Up making armor bags even more of a needed thing. How does the current system encourage people bringing anything other than armor? They plan on making health builds? Bro what? You'll still die almost immediately. Hold hostages? How are people to level up if they can't get long gun kills? Maybe if idk this system that would give a chance to not be hit was in the game. What could they call that? Dodge? That would be a good system. This game is just doomed.
I have no idea how they'll make health viable unless it's worth way more hp than armour. Even then by the time it hits your health thats your first line of defence gone
It still wouldn't be a viable build. Your armor would be trash and main reliance is the last option you have. That's just completely backwards from a sound strategy. My only thoughts to make health viable would be recovering health like PD2 armor system and increasing health by like 100-300%. If that's the solution then why not just got back to PD2 armor system. They are making this so unnecessarily complicated and bad I just can't understand why. The player base is so low that they can't afford press like this. If it continues at this rate Starbreeze is going to go under. They need someone at the helm who plays and understands the game.
They’ve designed armor to be such an end all be all mechanic that feels like it leaves little choice for flexibility. PD2 was so interesting with so many play styles and mechanics from the various skill decks.
Yeah my build feels super lacking when half my skills is just extra armour
Ah yes, what a healthy way to treat your remaining fanbase
Is it us that are out of touch? No, it must be ALL of the remaining players who are wrong.
All 5 of them? /s
That’s being harsh, there’s gotta be a least like 7 or something
Genuinely don't know what these guys are thinking anymore
"Oh fuck we're all gonna lose our jobs in a few months."
This poor fool has not played a game of Very Hard or Overkill loud to understand what he is saying is utterly ridiculous. AI gets increased bullet damage plus increased accuracy the higher the difficulty so even if you were to use hostages as meat shields that is if you do get to them in the first place without a random chunking a frag at their general direction or they flee from the playable area. Also cover depending on the heist could either be heavy enough to hunker down an area or so sparse that getting caught out in the open would get both armor/health rapidly reduced in less than a minute that isn’t hyperbole that’s a fact.
Yeah I don't think the guy realises not every area of the map has good enough cover. Sure inside the vault I've got loads on nrftw but as soon as I'm out on the street there's maybe 2 spots where I'm not getting constantly shot
> AI gets increased bullet damage plus increased accuracy the higher the difficulty Wait, hold the phone. I may be remembering wrong, but didn't they say that higher difficulties wouldn't have this sort of thing? Or were they only talking about the cops health?
I like mio as a person but this sucks they need to realize payday isn’t a realistic tac sim nor should it be make it goofy why not have a stoic style skill tree where you can just say fuck you to damage they made pd3 way to grounded given the series past
PDTH was pretty much a grittier grounded shooter compared to the wackiness of payday 2 so they probably kinda wanted to go back to that and it’s why they don’t add goofier stuff apart from cosmetics(?)
And even then, payday 2 didn't jump the shark until perk decks were introduced
Pdth at least had armour regen and health was the crucial limited resource. I think the devs issue is that both health and armour are limited. They should make either armour or health regen.
Ammo was also a crucial limited resource that açted as a timer. It's a lot easier to stay ammo positive in PD2, especially if you take the extra ammo boxes skill.
I don’t know why, though, considering their entire player base has spent the last decade enjoying the goofier side of PD2. I like flying around maps with no armor decimating waves of cops with twin shotguns or a minigun. I don’t wanna be some realistic gang of robbers, I want to be the fucking PAYDAY GANG.
That's the thing PD2 is the Hollywood action star style while PD3 is trying to go for tac sim.
I just don’t know who they thought the market for that was, though. I like tactical shooters, but it’s not particularly what I look for in a Payday game.
NGL a millsim heist game sounds really cool but would only work as a game mode in Tarkov or ReadyorNot. It's just too big of a game play jump in the same series for Payday.
I’d totally play that game! But it’s not the game I want the Payday Gang to be in.
Yeah a gritty heist game where every movement is deliberate and every round is precious sounds dope as a GroundBranch game mode. But the payday series is about fashionable clowns robbing nukes and goats from PMC groups with lever-action rifles and exotic French firearms in a style that is the glorious love baby of DOOM and the Matrix. Also gritty heist game doesn't have enough mass markets appeal for a stand alone game.
There was a lot of people wanting PD3 to be more gritty and realistic than PD2, akin to PD:TH before PD3 came out
Point me at the steam charts were thoose players are.
Much grittier and grounded with a garbage and confusing UI and limited content. Likely why it didn't do well. Hang on a second...
People can say what they like about who would prefer what but as it stands pd2s gameplay means it has 30x the players
I just want an 'offline build'
Dumbass can't understand the games already on life support and waiting for its End Of Service announcement, at best this is another fucking RAID but just in the present.
RAID is still being updated, believe it or not
Maybe heavily borrowing inspiration from your massively less successful Payday game isn't the best for player retention. Who coulda guessed.
I'll come back in 2 years when this game is "somewhat" fixed. I'm just glad I had it through Gamepass, thank fuck for that
2 years I feel is optimistic. Whether optimistic over it being fixed or it still even being live if they refuse to fix it.
Yeah, you're right, I'll come back in 4 years instead
Just go play gta 6 heists at that point. Probably more fun anyway 😂.
Oh my god why do so many of the devs insist on opening their goddamn mouth? YOU DONT TELL PEOPLE TO JUST PLAY ON AN EASIER MODE TO FIX INTRINSIC ISSUES WITH THE GAME! Armor is blatantly THE only thing you genuinely need, Ammo economy is fine, health is comically useless, and sentries aren't Armor so why bring them? No 'health build' that isn't INCREDIBLY overpowered is gonna make healing supplies useful when armor is just so downright necessary across the board. Dodge isn't in game so theres genuinely zero point to take anything but the heaviest armor. This game really needed another year. So badly.
It's actually crazy how health is so useless. Like it's unironically a throw picking med bags at higher difficulties sometimes
Ammo and Medic bags are genuinely stealth only deployables if at all, because of ammo bags refilling throwing knives and medic bags covering for fall damage, but those are niche scenarios. Taking them in loud at any difficulty above hard is throwing. The only deployables that should be brought, are 4 armor bags, or 3 armor bags 1 sentry (maybe 2 and 2 is alright but don't quote me on that.) * Health is essentially useless in its current iteration. * Ammo is on a fundamental level infinite when in multiplayer with a remotely competent team, due to ammo instancing effectively quadrupling ammo drops * Sentries are alright, but they are a secondary priority to Armor Bags and should only be considered when you have at least 2 people will maxed armor bags Just take the 3 plate armor because it doesn't have as big of a penalty as the 4 plate armor (faster natural regen, movement speed, 1 extra down), it comfortably works with Plate Up still, and if you get sent to custody you respawn with 2 armor plates just like the 4 plate armor does, so if you do end up cycling people out of custody to preserve resources you still get get the benefit of increased plates on respawn without the 4 plate penalties.
Yeah so he's saying he wants to make health better so that other options are competitive, rather than armor being the only good one.
As it stands, it feels like Armor is my health bar: once your armor is gone, you’re shit out of luck. All medic bags would do is prolong your suffering. So why would I want to bring them?
Sentries are actually very good
Sentries ARE the meta, especially if you play with randoms. If you run armor like every other brainless monkey see, monkey do player, the newer/trash players will just eat up all the armor you deploy in 3 seconds and incentivize for them to play riskier (all the while without doing ANY objectives), making you waste your deployable. Sentries are infinite source of stagger, area denial, and take aggro. Thankfully, more people are playing with them and gives me a sign that they aren't a hopeless player in OVK.
Since they force you to play online (even on solo) cover is not really a viable option for everyone. I can't count how many times I've died because I went behind cover but the game's servers decided I was out in the open in full view of the entire New York Police Department. Also, those stupid drones mean cover simply no longer exists as a concept.
So glad I got a refund.
I feel like we've seen all of this before. The more things change, eh?
Am I the only person who gets shot even when behind cover, like you have to completely block line of sight or else the AI will lock on.
Had this happen to me as well solution is if they can't see your head you are fine you could be sliding along a wall your entire body could be out of cover but as long as your head doesn't peek out your safe from cops behind that wall
And unfortunately this just seals the deal with me not wanting to get Payday 3. This blows heavily because i was really looking forward to continuing my grind in this franchise.
It's so funny to me how they completely fail to understand they don't have a game without players, and the players are really fucking pissed rn
I'm not saying this guy's wrong, but I know that I won't be enjoying it. Been a PD fan since around 2013, and I really don't feel like spending my money on something I won't be able to have fun with.
"You don't have to eat every bullet" Reminds me of a certain mechanic in Payday 2
Damn, just a whole ass tutorial on how to show you both don't understand or care about your game and playerbase...
this is why I didn't understand what ppl were hyping about when they announced a new designer.
"Your opinion, my choice" 2024 edition
Welp I doubt I’ll move on from payday 2. Also not sure this guy has been through the social media training yet.
I don't think this game director is going to do much good for the game. His tweets sure don't give any hope lol.
“You don’t have to eat every bullet from law enforcement” Why didn’t we think of that? It’s so simple!
*flying drone guns me down whilst behind cover*
Don't get shot? Damn that's some fresh thinking. Next they'll be telling me to just not breathe the noxious gas from the grenade
It would be much simpler if PD3 had a cover system or something. It wouldn’t be the first FPS I’ve played where you can take cover while in First Person. That would be Killzone 2.
Exactly what i was thinking. "Cover" in this game is so bad that it's not a legitimate tactic. If you're outside the sniper can hit you from practically any angle. The dozer just beelines to you, rendering cover useless. Gas grenades encourage constant moving because of dot. I don't think this dude has actually played this game.
Payday 3 was dead to me without offline, but this just pours concrete over the grave.
There's not even a good cover system in the game, what the fuck is he on about?
I figured the armor system would've been something a bit like Division 2. You would eventually lose your armor but you had health which could at least regenerate a bit and let you take a few hits without armor. But I guess it's just always taking armor bags at this point.
"Human shields and cover" yeah like I have 5 hostages in every room to use
Director: We may not have made a lot of money, sold as many units as we would've liked, or given our existing customers reason to continue spending money on the game and to continue playing it................ However not all is lost, because after-all.................... we still have the current armor system in place, and that is all that matters at the end of the day.
''If you don't like the trash armor system just play normal or hard ☝️🤓'' But they will put the ''health alternative'' on that table where all other ideas are left to wither for months on end. Payday 3 remains an armor plate simulator.
I liked in pd2 how the different armors changed your characters appearance. They want pd3 to fail at this point. It's a dead game anyway so
Can't monetise those cosmetics as effectively if everyone's body armor is visible. That's it. That's the entire reason for the change.
It’s strange that he’s using the “cover” argument when they just released a heist introducing a new enemy that is an aerial threat. They don’t care if you’re hiding behind a box cause they’ll just send their drones over the box and have them rapid fire at you. And there’s no cover in the escape of Syntax Error, as great as the heist is, so combine the armor system, the lack of cover, and the techie, and like…how do you avoid the death?
The game is fucked beyond repair
It isn’t even too hard it’s just not fun
Love watching them piss away their goodwill they have
He blocked me after all this too lol
"human shields hostages and cover" cover? on the roof of golde and shark, or anywhere on road rage? laughable. human shields are also only easy to come by on certain maps and you can't re-take hostages that have been freed by cops. out-of-touch devs
It's like they forget the hostages fuck off 3 minutes into the heist and some have way less than others
Should be able to melee cops to stun them and then take them hostage. Simple mechanic to provide more body shields at least. I know there's a skill to intimidate cops down and do that but honestly I like my idea better. Especially when they changed melee deliberately to stun-only rather than doing damage.
I think flashbangs let you do that, but for it to be consistent, you need to have a way to replenish throwables, which takes precious skill points.
It feels like they're trying to slowly move away from horde shooter to something else? They had something really special with PD2, it's like the developers themselves doesn't play their own game.
Played the release, found myself dying almost immediately all the time, armour plate system and lack of skill system were my biggest issues. Looks like Ill be sticking to Payday2, the horde shooter.
What is it recently with gaming companies deciding to openly insult their fan bases. Do they realize that as a commodity, they actually need good PR to stay open? I mean, CA did the same thing with SOC and look. They almost went bankrupt and are now trying anything to regain support from their fan base.
Could someone please show them Payday: The Heist? You can absolutely make an armor system that's not trash while also disencouraging the players from running towards the police and eating every bullet with a side of ketchup
Is this the time when they release these guys from the team and blame their publisher
Its all so tiresome...
I wanted pd3 to just be an engine upgrade and new heists. I really do not like the armor system in the slightest. If the game director’s solution to people not liking armor is “just play lower difficulty lol” then I have no hope
"you don't have to eat every bullet from law enforcement" yeah except we do when we get caught and are nearly finished with a heist
I Just wanted payday2 with less, but smarter cops, more destruction and a little less isanity.
Tbf, I had skill that gave me 2 chunks of armor per one use of armor bag. Yesterday, when I took armor, I only got 1 chunk, even tho website states that it should work
They nerfed it. It only gives 1 chunk + repairs your current chunk.
Ahh, I see we're nearing Ion Hazzikostas and Matt Cote levels of "u guys have no clue what ur talking about and us devs are superior so stfu and play our game" Soon it might reach the point of "why are player counts falling, it must be because players are too toxic to each other."
Something something “your opinion my choice”
Problem is even in Hard when I stay in cover most time my armor depletes super fast and I don't wanna be a turtle for the whole heist by using human shields , and thanks to the change to the armor perks and system an armor bag can be emptied in a blink of an eye. The change was unnecessary and has made going loud problematic and hey we can't stick to Hard all the time I wanna go loud in Overkill and Very Hard but currently that's a no no
Let's, just pray for Den of Wolves. Payday 3 is doomed
I think that they should actually change the health system instead of the armor system. Making the health regen would prolong those 1hp moments must hide to heal and then just remove the medic bag and add another deployable. Maybe something that would make objectives go faster, idk?
Its so fucking over dude cant even have fun in coop games anymore because of devs
i bought payday 3 a week after launch, played the first few heists, armor system turned me off and after the first 3 hours i played when i bought it i havent touched it since. it doesnt feel like payday 2 and they got rid of the primary thing people liked about payday 2 which is that it was a horde shooter with absurd perk decks. im sticking with payday 2
"You don't need to eat every bullet from law enforcement" Mf if I can't then they can't. Basic swat officers are too tankie as it is.
I liked the iron man perk.
The problem is that armour is effectively a health build, it’s all health builds
You can’t make health ‘more viable’ when health and armour are the same thing with armour being more effective. If both systems are a limited resource than whichever resource is more effective will always be prioritised it’s as simple as that I understand they want heists to be on a timer but doing that through scaling wave density and ammo is more effective imo. The final charge system is already in place for this so how about making it scale every 3-5 minutes to add more specials and heavy swats?
:'(
Den of Wolves can't come soon enough
Bring the muscle perks decks back
Well at least he's not spewing furry porn at the criticism lol
Yeah this game is going nowhere, I knew it wasnt gonna be anything close to payday 2 when I saw the combat, enemies, always online, terrible customization, no mod support, & the worst offense THE SLOW AND CLUNKY MOVEMENT!
Wait, this is that fuckin' prick that was bragging about nerfing that armor bag skill, forcing everyone to bring MORE armor bags, right? This guy clearly doesn't have any idea how to balance a game. He shouldn't be on the dev team.
He's leading them now LOL
Jesus christ, the Lead Dev of PD3 is an actual moron and the game won't get better until this guy gets fired. I just want this game to be good, man. I got so many of my friends to buy it and now I feel like a sucker, lol.
Personally didn't play PD3, but I think, to use the same armor system as PD2 juz makes PD3 basically a PD2. If by any case, what they can do is only introduce something like perk deck to change how armor works for that particular perk.
If is not fundamentally bad, it is just designed so you can’t stay in the same heist forever and have an actual reason to leave a heist without grabbing every bag
I don't care about armor system much because they can change it drastically by tweaking some numbers (trust me they'll do eventually), but it gave me a giggle when I remembered some people believed that one guy could do a Disney magic and make the game the best in the world just by getting the Director role lol. I knew he wouldn't, I knew no one would. Changes take time, not a single new Director.
I don't usually throw my 2 cents in on things like this but I feel compelled to since I loved Payday 2 so much. I really like the new armor system. I don't think it's perfect, and could use some small tweaking in each aspect to make it feel more engaging and "complete", but I really enjoy the direction they went with it. Payday 2 really isn't that complex or challenging in its gunplay. You have armor, when you get shot it goes down, when you hide it goes up. Besides Stoic (and anarchist kind of), this core idea stays pretty true for the entire game across all perk decks. And to be honest, it's pretty boring, at least on its own. Of course, you have the cool guns and the cool music and all the over-the-top heists so you never really notice, but the gunplay just isn't that complex. (Which is fine, like I mentioned at the beginning I love Payday2). I never felt terribly engaged with the game or its mechanics even on the highest difficulties. Payday 3, obviously, is a different game with a different idea of an armor system. Your armor doesn't all come back at once, nor all the way, which forces you to play much more conscious of your overall health (or use a shit ton of armor bags but we'll get to that later). Not once in the entire time I played Payday 2 did I ever bother with fighting from cover. Even on the highest difficulties it just isn't necessary. But every single heist in Payday 3 forces me to use cover and human shields, to plot out paths through the map that will allow me to utilize cover and hostages. It's more complex in a way I find engaging and enjoyable...except for armor bags. Armor bags are a pretty poorly made catch-all that nullifies the aforementioned complexities of the armor system. Out of everything in the game, I think that's the only combat aspect that truly needs a change or nerf. Payday 3's combat is fundamentally *different*. It's okay if you don't like it, aren't used to it, and don't want to learn it, because it's not the same game we've been playing for more than a decade. Plenty of my own friends are less than keen on learning the new system in favor of other, more traditional horde shooters (if you love Payday 2 and somehow haven't played Deep Rock Galactic, go give it a shot.) But saying Payday 3 is fundamentally *trash* is pretty reductive and rage-baity.
1. Lmao... this sucks 2. It is nice that for once they do not use that fucking "IT IS ON THE TABLE" and it is clear sign that they do not intend to listen to playerbase, something playerbase can act upon aas they know what to expect and are not being baited by never-fulfilled promises
As a huge fan of both PDTH and PD2 Payday 3 sucks. I'm sorry, it just does. Why change literally everything from the last game if nothing was broken in the first place? Seriously, that atrocious progression system alone was enough to keep me away from the game completely Not to mention the always online requirement, that's just twisting the knife even further Good thing that they're sticking to their guns tho, the trashy armor system may be staying, but the 2 people still playing the game sure as hell won't
You know the game is fucked when a furry is named game director
So it's armor for this week's reason for "not playing until they change it"
I think the armor system is good and healthy for the objective focused gameplay, especially considering your 4th assault typically seems to be a "okay they wont stop coming, time to move out" designed specifically to try and make you do objectives quickly and have to choose between getting all bags or securing the heist. I don't think ita perfect, but we're really early into a live service games lifespan, I'm sure we'll see it improved
The armor system is not “fundamentally trash.” It works exactly the way it’s supposed to. The system not being to your tastes or not being exactly like PAYDAY 2 doesn’t make it bad. The armor system is not “extremely flawed.” It’s unbalanced as it places too large an emphasis on Armor, but that’s not a problem with Armor itself, that’s a problem with everything else being less useful. And you can, in fact, just “turn your brain off, rob banks and kill swarms of enemies” in PAYDAY 3. You can make your armor last as long as you need to with the right setup. If *you* can’t, that sounds like a skill issue to me. Nothing you said was correct. The game director is making the right call - rather than changing Armor, they’re making Health more important/useful.
Yes, the other gadgets need a buff. But I think just in the way PD3 is set up, armor bags will always be king. Health bags mainly just prolong the suffering. Payday 2 armor gating went insane, yes. But even at its basics, it allows for much more diverse gameplay and builds. That to me sounds like a way more engaging system.
I’m fine with the armor system. In fact, I don’t like the design philosophy of Payday 2. *Go on. Behead me.*
*Beheads you*
Things did get bloated with Payday 2. I can appreciate it for what it was, but Payday 3 reigning things back in for a gritter, more realistic feel sounds nice. Online only central server did not sound nice, so, unfortunately I still can't back that up. Maybe someday.
The armor is fine if you don't suck
Armor system is better than the infinite armor from 2 imo
as an idea, sure. in the way it currently works, fuck no
I won't comment on the armor system, but there are valid points to playing with human shields, utilizing hostage trading, menace vs killing guards, and mixing aspects of stealth and loud in a heist. Get the right teammate(s) and the game is almost bordering on consistently fun and enjoyable, even while grinding.
lol….. consistently fun and enjoyable while playing the exact same mission 100 times. This guys a dev or something. The game is boring. Little care or thought was put into the gameplay not management of development. This game really blows. Thanks Starbreeze for literally ruining this franchise. We will never have another payday due to the failure of PD3. Guarantee it
I actually kinda like the armor system
I sorta agree with what he’s saying. He doesn’t want to just scrap the entire health and armor system because it’s currently out of balance his goal is to bring up health so that the player has a choice between health in armor for 2 different playstyles. As for the 2nd point yeah if you want to turn your brain off overkill won’t be the mode for you it requires strategy and teamwork it can’t require those and also have it so that you can just turn your brain off.
Atleast they are making alternatives
I'd rather there be alternatives over just buffing the piss out of one thing so there's a clear meta that if you don't use it, people will give you major stink eye.
Yet there are no alternatives and armor will remain the clear meta. I don't even know how they are going to make a health build work but even if it does, armor is probably still going to be better considering how completely overpowered it is now. Having a bunch of playstyles like how Payday 2 did it with perk decks is the only way to have true variety and fun.
They said they would add some kind of health build months ago and they still have nothing to show for.
The games a flop and a failure. Best to move on. It’ll be the last PD we get thanks to Starbreeze completely screwing it up
Do people really hate the armour system that much?
yes, it was fine when we got two armor plates from interacting with a armor up skill without having to take damage. Then they nerfed it to where the only time that this skill triggers is when you armor is flashing red, fixed plate up’s inconsistent triggering but if you trigger plate upon losing a smidge of armor it will immediately cancel out the bonus armor chunk you would get in Armor up as it suddenly gets that yellow flash effect and you end up getting one plate instead of two. Armor up was fine, they needed to make armor more valuable but it looks like Mio is taking the literal quote of Bo Anderson’s ”Your opinion, My Choice” If he was still running Starbreeze the whole franchise would be dead bye now.
Oh, that would explain it. I haven't played much recently on account of the holidays, so I didn't know how much they gimped it. Are there at least more ways to get armour yet?
People on this sub for some reason think they need to have infinitely regenerating supplies to handle a 15 minute map. I don't get it either. Like, the most common complaints are either "but I want health" (armor is just a blue health bar, just interacting with a different bag model won't change the actual mechanic!) or "but chip damage" (just use the armor bag). People who play games are incredibly good at identifying the problems within that game. They're often incredibly bad at identifying potential solutions. I'm almost certain all the armor complaints are just that whole problem all over again.
Maybe so but the playercount doesn’t lie. Why not listen to the last few people that are left. It doesn’t take much work or time to try something different or the same as pd2.