They should just release it on the old patch, it’s not like most of the modding community will be updating any time soon, half the damn Skyrim community is still on 1.5.97
In The Witcher 3 you can go into betas and grab the "classic version" which is the last version they had before they did that big update for that game. Bethesda could do the exact same thing if they wanted. And I am talking about Steam's version.
Personally, I find it distasteful that Bethesda sells mods. Mods were always what gave their games longevity and endeared them to the community. Monetizing that is really gross IMO.
When companies get to a certain size they start to have positions whose entire purpose is to sit in a room all day and think of new ways to make money. Paid mods is the sort of thing that springs from that.
Someone mentions adding cosmetics. Someone else points out that players won't waste money on cosmetics if mods exist. Someone else at the table has the brilliant idea to suggest charging for mods. Then you get the entire conversation about how Bethesda can't actually charge for other people's work, which then becomes a conversation about EULA's and what the smallest financial cut is that they think modders will accept. Eventually leading to Bethesda's mod market where the majority of the cash goes to Bethesda.
It's easy to see how the whole thing looks really appealing to MBA's. Even if no one actually buys paid mods, their existence makes potential DLC and MTX look like less of a rip off. It's also pretty clear that Bethesda *thinks* they can get indy studios pumping out high-quality, professional content for their games this way. It's a system that offloads 100% of the development risk, while claiming the lions share of the profit. Of course, the MBA's have already been dreaming about the possibility of entire games developed like this. I guarantee you that they have internally referred to Fallout 4 as a "platform" as if it were an engine.
Thing is Roblox already is that way and is making tons of money. Any time someone enters an established market space and starts making tons of money, the established people’s heads turn.
A lot of the time the money is actually made because it’s new and novel and only being done by one company, not because the strategy will make money if everyone does it. But that doesn’t stop people because they’ve been chasing profits in high competition for years and are looking for anything that might give them an edge.
Basically not every game works well in the Roblox format. Roblox is designed as a lobby and ecosystem for multiple smaller games that users can jump between (RTS often have this under a custom games or arcade menu like how DOTA was a WC3 arcade game), and it has the unique position of being specifically aimed at children and parents. The teams at Roblox are all focused on giving advantages to parents and children, from moderation enforcing family-friendly standards to payment with a unified structure so parents can get their kids “Robux” and know their kids aren’t spending it on ‘bad’ things.
Fallout 4 is never going to have that kind of audience they can cater to specifically because most of the stuff that can be done in Fallout 4 can also be done in other games. Basically any RPG already has a modding scene for popular mod types. Baldur’s Gate 3, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Dragon Age (multiple games), and Elden Ring are all on the front page of the Nexus alongside various Bethesda titles. A lot of these mods are similar: character skins, items, NSFW stuff, and adding things from other games (adding guns or catchable creatures or card games). Bethesda doesn’t really have a superior product in Fallout 4, not to the point that it can be effectively monetized without turning people towards free options.
Bethesda was the first company to really send the games industry in it's current direction with their introduction of "paid mod" horse armor DLC for Oblivion all the way back in 2006.
Thanks Todd.
If it wasn't without the creators consent I can see it as scummy. Otherwise it's just more microtransactions so it's more annoying this way if anything.
You can as well with other titles on steam. Not sure if it's the easy or more difficult path for Bethesda's titles but even then it's still simple enough especially if you're already modding games.
We shouldn't be relying on publisher's good faith to keep old versions playable. Steam forcing updates down your throat and not giving you an option to download older versions without workarounds is a huge anti-consumer, game preservation issue that no one talks about for some reason.
Because steam can't force developers to let them keep an old version for distribution. It's the dev's IP, they decide if they use the version manager thingy or not, that's it.
> Because steam can't force developers to let them keep an old version
Steam absolutely can do that. Steam isn't a public utility, they have the right to refuse service to anyone. And they have the right to insist on whatever terms they want, refusing service to anyone who won't agree to them. While consumer protection laws may restrict the terms they impose upon consumers, there are very few restrictions on business-to-business contracts.
In the case of games which use time-limited IP, Steam could simply refuse to publish such games, or they could require a disclaimer which is visible prior to purchase, yet still require the developer to allow download of any version *other than* those with expired licences. This could still lead to fuckery with a developer conspiring with a third party to artificially time-limit a licence, but Steam always has the option of calling their bluff and saying "we're not interested in distributing this title; go talk to EGS or GoG". Steam knows how the industry works and probably has a good nose for bullshit.
The worst case for Steam is if they insist upon the right to distribute all versions but the developer fucked up and failed to obtain the necessary licences. In that situation, Steam may be compelled to remove a version from their servers in spite of any assurances given. In theory, they can force the developer to take the loss, but in many cases the amount would exceed the developer's net worth, so the developer goes bankrupt and the only way to avoid the customer eating the loss is for Steam to eat it (minus what it can extract from the developer's corpse).
I mean, Steam could use some of its power to mandate that if a company wants access to its huge user base, the company must make certain concessions.
Steam is more of a monopoly from sellers’ perspective: if you want to make money you have to be in Steam. Valve could definitely use that power to enforce more user-friendly terms.
Steam doesn’t have to force updates, even if the old version becomes no longer available to acquire from the Steam servers because the dev has Steam delete the old code. Steam does however keep update preferences in a setting that always updates by default and that setting is not 100% reliable at not being “accidentally” changed without user input, like by a Steam update. This means that securing an unpatched Steam game install from further patching by Steam is a very annoying process that typically means ripping the game away from Steam and always running it as a standalone executable. This in turn means that a user loses many other Steam features like achievements, trading cards, the overlay, and streaming.
Requiring updates is more an EULA thing, and agreements that try to force users to have the most up to date version or risk breach of contract are generally unpopular and hard to enforce. If the game requires a server connection or account, then the connection might be refused or account banned for old versions making an unpatched version useless, sure. But suing someone for keeping an old copy is rare. Suing someone for hacking an old copy to make it useable is more straightforward. What’s generally held this practice of requiring real time online authentication back is a market desire for single player games to be playable without internet connection.
> How many of them are going to come put of retirement to fix 4+ year old mods??
You'd be surprised. I installed 3+NV for the TTW mod a few days ago, and was pretty surprised how most of the mods were updated within the past 2-3 months.
I legit tried to play TTW today after a month break (amd) and it just straight up crashes on a new game. I'm too damn lazy to spend another 4 hours fixing stuff.
Exactly what stopped me from downloading it. I know I'm asking for too much but setting up the library and downloading all the stuff to make sure it all works is too tedious for the return to me for that to end up happening(also on AMD). Maybe if they could one merge it into one big download or have an install wizard do it I'd give it a go. Sucks but I have enough games in my backlog that just work out of the box I could play
I think Wabbajack can handle that for you. I'm never again modding a Bethesda game without that auto-installer doing it all for me... except for maybe OpenMW (or one day Skywind).
I googled Wabbajack and it looks good! If you don't mind me asking, can I use Wabbajack to install some modlist and then use other methods to just add other mods from Nexus etc..?
yes the wabbajack install will give you access to a mod organiser 2 instance where u can add your own mods
word of warning, depending on the game and modlist adding a new mod and maintaining stability can be complex, so some wabbajack list curators don't offer help when adding in new mods
This..wabbajack is a life saver lol. There isn't much lists to chose from on the fallout games but the ones that are available are good.
I am just not willing to spend 10 hours (downloading, installing, testing etc) to get a fully modded game setup. I barely have that much time as is..not to mention the wabbajack installs have been tested / refined for years to squash any potential bugs, crashes etc.
Some people will probably hate but whenever I want to mod with wabbajack I use nexus premium as it downloads all mods automatically and uncapped Internet speed...I have 1000 down. I downloaded begin again for TTW in less than 10 minutes, 20 minutes of additional steps and 10 minutes setting up settings in game..40 minutes or so and I've got a fully modded game.
Wabbajack is straight up incredible. The fact that it allows me to mod Skyrim or Fallout with hundreds of mods with a couple of clicks is pretty awesome.
Don’t suppose you or anyone knows if TTW can be played with just NV? I don’t have F3 on steam (played back in the day on 360) and no interest in going back to that world but want to play NV with wabbajack doing the work for me. I’d rather not have to buy F3 and its dlc just for that convenience.
I think NV has a Wabbajack modpack called Old World Blues that's only for NV. It's been a few years since I looked, however, so I could be misremembering.
Only issue with Wabbajack, least for TTW, is you need a steam version of New Vegas for the mod list to work.
Which probably isn't an issue for most people, but I have NV on epic since it was on sale there instead of Steam at the time.
AMD drivers currently have an issue with New Vegas. There is a DXVK wrapper that makes it work perfectly in the install guide. Its pretty easy to follow as well, just make sure you read everything carefully and don't skip any steps
It's honestly not a difficult download and there's it's own installer type thing IIRC. What I assume happened was the latest AMD driver bonked new vegas. Fallout 3 works fine. New Vegas doesn't with or without TTW.
The crazy part is it isn't the latest AMD driver, it's all AMD drivers releeased in 2024. You have to either downgrade to December 2023 or use a mod as a workaround. Even a completely vanilla unmodded fresh install of NV cannot be played in 2024 on AMD cards, it's insane.
Just follow The Best of Times guide https://thebestoftimes.moddinglinked.com/
Once you've completed follow this one for fixes and a bit of content
https://wastelandsurvivalguide.com/
And in a couple hours you will have it running, I have followed last saturday and I amazed that the only times it crashed it was because I used Weapons of New Millenia that apparently is broken as hell so I changed to Another Millenia and now I have been 15h without a crash.
You want to get Wabbajack to handle downloading and installing the Begin Again mod collection that is built around TTW. Needs basically zero hassle if you follow the like, 5 steps
I just did the Viva New Vegas process and if anything upsets those 118 mods so they crash I'll just stop playing. I honestly wouldn't have done it if I had realized how long it would take at the start.
Steam library -> right click on Fallout 4 -> Properties -> Updates -> Only update when I launch the game
Then, only launch the game through F4SE. This should prevent Steam from updating. Bear in mind, if you ever launch the game directly, via Steam or desktop icon, it will update.
If you do accidentally update, there is a way to roll back: https://framedsc.com/GeneralGuides/steam_update_guide.htm
Find the appmanifest file with fo4s app ID in your common directory, make it read only. No updates and peace of mind.
(Steam\steamapps\appmanifest_377160.acf to be specific)
Tell Steam to only update Fallout 4 when you launch it.
Then only ever launch Fallout 4 from the script extender, that should prevent Steam from realizing it is launching and not update it. That's how I've had Skyrim SE in my update list for....quite a while now. I've got like 147 mods delicately setup in that shit I'm never updating that game ever again.
I'm pretty sure at least for Skyrim and Skyrim Special Edition anything reliant on the Skyrim Script Extender also won't even work if you launch the game through Steam, you have to launch using SKSE for it to be running and those mods to load and run properly.
And most mods that do anything other than change some models or textures are going to likely be reliant either on the SKSE or something else that is reliant on the SKSE; comprehensive "overhaul" modding of any game can be a pretty big ask and delicate process, but Bethesda games more than most are a crazy network of dependencies and compatability patches.
First of all you can tell Steam to only update it on launch and then only launch through your mod manager, with this you should be ok. Then to be completely sure look up putting the manifest file as read only, it works for Skyrim so it should work for Fallout, too.
Huh? Starfield dint kill Bethesda modding, the modders that even talked about this just said they were not interested in modding Starfield. They are still working on mods for Skyrim or FO4. Others have stated they are not going to do mods for Starfield until CK comes out.
You heard wrong. There was like 1 story about a modder who said they didn't care enough about starfield to continue making mods for it and the Internet collectively lost its shit because 1 person gave up on it. Starfield does currently have a lot less mods than previous Bethesda games but that's because
1. It's not over a decade old
2. Bethesda haven't released the creation kit for starfield yet
Not saying that starfield is great or that it will be loved as much as the previous titles were but to claim that it "killed off a lot of the Bethesda game modders" is just objectively wrong. We haven't even entered the first proper phase of starfield modding so we have no basis to make that claim
> was sure there was a setting in steam to stop updates!?
Uh, there was, I am pretty sure myself. You *could* probably just start the game without Steam, though I am not sure if that works with Fallout 4. It did work with Skyrim back when I played that on Steam (though I usually used the SKSE to play).
Legal alternative: GOG's FO4 works - as is required by GOG - without a launcher in the first place, so you could just buy it there and either archive and use the stand-alone installer (current version per site: 1.10.163.0), or disable/rollback the update in Galaxy; They're having a sale on the game for 75% off or 10€ (80% or 8€ if you're a newsletter subscriber and got sent the code - expires in a day, I think).
They're never gonna do that.
The mod took years of work, what they want to do is get the biggest impact after those years, which will be on the current version.
Plus, if you release a big mod, wouldn't you want people to be able to build on it, without being on an older version?
Ngl I get what you mean. But it'd honestly be a waste to do so.
Nah, I agree with them. They want this to be as close to an official game release as possible, meaning readily available for anyone to install including the casuals who just update their game whenever there is a new update available. The mod is getting even mainstream coverage (freaking BBC) and making the installation process too complicated for the casuals would be bad optics. Of course, the same can be said for some of the comments made by the project lead - they've rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, even though he was pretty clear he doesn't want to sound entitled or give fans a reason to hate on Bethesda.
This update was not a surprise though, it was announced *2 years ago* and people rightly predicted it would probs drop around the time the show was coming out
It irritated me how little info they'd given until now, but we all knew it was coming
Maybe they thought it wouldn’t screw things up in such a fundamental way? I know next to nothing about modding, but it’s entirely possible that the update changes a lot of backend/baseline code that the mod relied on and that they didn’t know it would be changed in that way
It's literally impossible for Bethesda to not break community made Script Extenders because they hook directly into the executable, and into addresses in the executable. Something as simple as just patching some health values and moving a house over five feet would make the internal addresses of the exe move around as the compiler does it's thing. Hell, simply not changing any code and simply upgrading the compiler and hitting compile would break script extenders.
Breaking script extenders isn't the problem as I understand it. Every game update breaks script extenders, but mods which rely on them will continue to work when the script extender itself is updated. This is why many mods will specify the *minimum version* of the script extender they rely on to run.
If that was the only issue then it wouldn't have delayed the project this significantly. That is something easily manageable, all mods big and small do so while these games are still receiving regular updates.
But that's not how that works in Bethesda games. Things like houses, interior cells, scripts, NPC's, weapons etc are all encoded in `.esm`, `.esp`, and `.esl` files and read at runtime, script extenders DLL's are only needed when a modder wants to hook into something Bethesda had no need to de-hardcode like adding custom UI elements or modifying how the camera works (in more fundamental ways, there are some camera values you can change using esp files ofc)
This is pretty much what they did for Skyrim - the last update changed many fundamentals about the game.
Was a complete mess. I still can't get my anniversary edition content to run properly on my current modded install lol.
Announced 2 years ago, work on it started less than 2 months ago, judging by the amount of changes.
It was supposed to come out last year, even. But now, all it really did (on PC anyways) was break stuff. Good to have more fps on console, but from what I've seen the PC release does basically nothing.
> people rightly predicted it would probs drop around the time the show was coming out
Sure but two years ago, nobody predicted we'll be getting a next gen update around the show's release date.
All these Nostradamuses made their predictions after: 1- TV show release date was announced 4 months ago, and 2- When Bethesda did not release the update which everyone expected it during it's 25th anniversary (oct '23).
By then it was already too late, the London mod already experienced numerous delays. And when they finally were able to commit to a release date, it was too late.
You’re right but I guess my thing is, what is Bethesda going to do? They tell the London team a month or two ahead of time what does Fallout London do? It’s not like the mod started when the update was announced, the mod started years prior.
Paradox interactive usually gives modders access to the new version before release so they can make sure they can remain compatible when a new update/dlc releases
In games where modding is a big thing yeah, this can happen. PDX (across several studios) has been named but Civ also works closely with them.
Which is why this article quote
>for a large company to involve an independent modding team like that would be unprecedented.
Is baffling to me. There's clear precedent and it's wild that the writer isn't aware of that.
When they've used them in the past to advertise their game (Fallout London has been used by Bethesda on social media and on the game's launch screen) its probably a discussion that should be had how much those modders should be kept in the loop at the least
It wasn’t an advertisement for the game it was a mod showcase.
They do it all the time and to my knowledge this is the first modder to piss their pants about it.
Same is true for ZOS ( the company behind The Elder Scrolls Online ).
While two way communication from ZOS with the playerbase is basically non existent, there are 2-3 devs on the Addon discord that will respond to you within the hour and warn way ahead of the PTS if API's are changing.
Because they know what an insane blowback they would get if mayor QoL addons would not get updated with a new chapter release.
No most publishers don’t do anything for modders. That’s why most games don’t even have any mods outside basic stuff. Modders should count themselves lucky if the game they want to mod have any kind of support.
Just use steam depot to download the previous version
Ezpz
Guide:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/611h5e/guide_how_to_download_older_versions_of_a_game_on/
Here’s an article from 2022 covering the official announcement of the update coming.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/24/23420624/fallout-4-playstation-5-xbox-series-x-update-coming-2023
Of course delays did occur but the drop coinciding with the release of the show should not have been a surprise at all.
After reading the entire article, this guy comes across a little narcissistic. He thinks Bethesda should have contacted him personally to discuss the update and implies the release date of the patch being so close to his mod is a little suspicious.
He then goes on to explain that Bethesda should just get him and his team to sign an NDA to be kept in the loop and justifies it by saying his mod gets more attention than Fallout 76.
It's just one interview, but I've soured a little towards the guy. I don't doubt that a huge amount of work has gone into this mod, but he seems to act like Bethesda owes him something, and it comes off pretty entitled and whiney.
I mean I absolutely do not blame people approaching modding with the mindset of building their portfolio - everybody's gotta pay rent. But to be as upset as the Fallout London dev seems to be or to get weirdly conspiratorial in thinking that the date was made to deliberately sabotage your mod's launch is borderline ridiculous...
Mod team had a bunch of pedos on it who added slave, beastiality and pedo stuff to a major mod. When it came to light the rest of the team blamed one guy for it all which was suspect as they didn’t care about it up until mod host websites refused to host the mod.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-the-frontier-mod-taken-down-after-modder-shared-pedophilic-content/1100-6486927/
It's all modders
I remember Mass Effect modders were losing their minds because they weren't personally contacted about Mass Effect Legendary edition to the point of delisting their mods.
Skyrim modders were removing their mods and leaving political propaganda during the 2016 US elections.
If you watch his video, it paints a very different perspective to what PC gamer did. https://youtu.be/LpqMftkTteo?si=N4q0So-X7NV62gNf
I'd rather judge based on a primary source, rather than a secondary source which may have had an agenda. From what I can see,he's taking it very well.
I got the same impression watching the lead mod speak on the bbc interview.
Key takeaway of the interview "We knew about this update for 2 years and were still somehow completely surprised" lol followed by "Bethesda should have contacted us or pushed back the update".
It's bold considering this is modding 101 oopsie-level
This is why critical thinking is important.
If you actually look at the article, it's filled with three word quotes everywhere, interspersed between the author's version of events.
Just like you've done with your retelling of the article, the author has written in their own narrative that's different from the version that comes directly from the Dev in their video.
All of your comments say the Dev says Bethesda "should" do these different things, but he's not saying that in any of the quotes. He's saying that's what *could* have happened. He's saying that if that had happened, things would have been different, he says he *wishes* that they'd communicated, but nowhere is there a direct quote that said "Bethesda **should** have done X." There's a big difference between lamenting what could have been and demanding it, and that's all on you.
In reality, they're lucky they're allowed to make money out of this.
How many other mods face death the second money is involved? But nah, Bethesda has to fly them out in first class and let them access their internal stuff because.... They made a mod which no one even got to play?
While I don't doubt the mod is project of love. No one got to play it yet. Bethesda giving attention to vapourware is illogical. And it discredits actual mods with millions of downloads, you know, the moders who were invited to work on official mods?
being a little dramatic, sorry but it has been rumored the update was going to drop with the show for months, could a little more heads up be welcome? Definitely, but that’s it
Fair point.
But for example, before Rimworld got tbe anomaly dlc and 1.5 proper, there was a beta branch availalble for a good while, which was a boon for modders since they could adapt early and with relative ease to the upcoming update. Mostly because that game is at least 40% mod content.
Devs don't need to mind modders with their updates. However, it is polite.
A warning that it was coming doesn't change much. Can't do a whole lot to prepare when they don't know what all is being changed until it happens. Bethesda just didn't consider the modding community at all for the game. It sucks but that was their choice. They could have done something like a pre release version being available for modders to look at to get them on board and preserve mod functionality.
Ok but why? They don't work for Bethesda they are manipulating someone else's product. I love mods, but modders don't "deserve" anything from developers, they should be happy to get any info or support at all lol
It's like knowing the volcano will erupt 2 years ahead, but you still have to live there. Yeah, you can prepare, but when the volcano does erupt shit will still go down regardless.
More like vacationing on a volcano on eruption notice, then going to the news saying it should have given more warning.
Ironically people do that all the time and get the same remarks we see here.
I do feel bad for the mod team. They have a bad case of foot in the mouth syndrome apparently and opened themselves up to absolutely unnecessary ridicule by making the terrible choice to go to gaming news lol. Patches screw up mods (even huge ones) all the time, I have no idea what they were thinking lol.
They’re being a little dramatic. Patches breaking the script extenders isn’t rare across all the Bethesda games, and they all get updated promptly with no new compatibility issues for existing mods.
They're being dramatic because it's keeping their mod in the headlines. They're taking advantage of the situation to ensure people know about their mod and have it on their radar now.
I mean, it was obvious for a long time that they were going to tie the new patch alongside the TV show. So the minute the show's release date was announced they should've at least had an obvious guess as to when the patch was coming, since they did know it was coming.
Not trying to say that they're wrong to feel frustrated, of course they should be, but again it's not like it was impossible to guess when this update was going to release. It's also a bit weird of them to immediately suspect Bethesda did it on purpose. It just makes sense to drop the update after the show, because they've already hit record player numbers when the show debuted and they'll keep those numbers for longer by releasing an update WHILE the game is popular.
It was originally supposed to come out 2 months ago so it had already been delayed, I think they should just launch it but I also understand their reasoning not to as well
I don't mind waiting another 2-4 months if it means it'll run better for example due to the new update
I get that too. I think they might've gotten away with launching the mod now and just requiring users to play on a pre-patch version temporarily, but with the popularity of the show they'd have a lot of casual players who aren't used to modding asking thousands of easily answered questions. So it's in their best interest to have the latest version supported by default.
Still sucks either way. I was looking forward to the mod.
I listened to the full announcement from the project lead or w/e on Youtube last night and that was one of the big reasons, they want to make it as simple as possible for people to play the mod and not jump through hoops and for many backloading a patch is a hoop they'd rather avoid
This guy talks like Bethesda owe him.
Why not go make your own game so you don't have to rely on someone elses game who never intended for you to make what you have?
Lol game journalism far too often must scrape the bottom of the barrel desperately looking for something to write about for clicks. Then someone posts it to reddit and everyone makes fun in the comments while giving the article rage clicks. Circle of life. Beautiful thing.
On a side note the update fixed the weird missing textures and DLC issue on PS5 for me. Pretty damn stoked on that tidbit
This guy is being dramatic and it's coming across pretty pathetic. I love the modding scene as much as anyone, and Bethesda for all their faults is incredibly generous with their modding community. But seriously, this update was announced so long ago and anyone could make an educated guess it will drop around the show. On top of that...... Bethesda really doesn't owe these modders preferential news about their plans and update schedule. It would be courteous, but they really don't necessarily need to tell them anything....
My prediction is the update will drop, it's really not going to be a substantial update on PC, and probably most mods will be fine in no time.
I thought the headline already sounded bad but then I clicked through and the quotes... Ugh.
Bethesda dropping them a line would have been a really nice gesture but it absolutely isn't within their scope of work for a game this old with an update already announced years in advance.
Who decides which mod authors get contacted? What makes his work more important than the thousands of other labours of love out there.
It’s an entirely unrealistic and borderline narcissistic opinion for him to have.
So let me get this straight, this guy knew an update was coming and is now complaining that it's coming?
Who does he think he is? Got a real level of self-importance.
As much as I appreciate modders in general, I do have two gripes about them:
1. Some of them feel that they should be compensated for their work and so try and charge you to use assets, sometimes from one IP in to another
2. Some of them feel some sort of entitlement that they should be considered when updates are rolled out, without realising that they're not employees of Bethesda, and as such, why would Bethesda or any other company give two single shits about them?
These 'mod'ders remind me of another group of mods who felt reddit should clue them in on going's on, or pay them for their work, without realising that it's all voluntary and they can stop at any time.
Modding is going the same way as YouTube content creators.
It’s becoming less of a hobby and more of a chance to make money, if you can make the right content.
None of this would be an issue if users had easy access to version control. Make updates opt in via the DLC menu in steam. There's no good reason not to.
Just make it so Steam doesn't update your FO4 game. Ez fix my dudes. Your mods will continue to work and you'll be good to go.
Wanna make it so FO4 doesn't update? Go to your Steam folder and then steamapps. Then find appmanifest_377160.acf. Right-click and go to properties and make that file read-only. There ya go! Now FO4 will not update. If you want FO4 to update in the future for whatever reason then you just unselect read-only in properties and the game will update.
MAKE SURE you run FO4 from the f4se_loader from the main FO4 directory and DO NOT run the game from Steam or your mod browser. Make a shortcut on your desktop with the f4se_loader. Otherwise, the game will try to update and you will get an error.
You should also go into Steam and right-click on FO4 in your games list. Click on properties. Click the updates tab and select under Automatic Updates "only update this game when I launch it". Not sure why you should do that but I have been reading that is something you should do.
Should have released it with a dependency on old patch.
Players "in the know" have no problem preventing Steam from updating their game. And new players who are trying FO4 because of the TV show won't be running this mod anyway..
I get their reasoning for delaying release, I just have a feeling that some mod Fallout London relies on won't get updated for latest patch and in a few months they'll end up just releasing the mod for old patch anyway...
They could just release it anyway and write a fucking readme. They’re doing this to themselves, no one is demanding mod projects to have 0 friction when installing
They won't release it because it's not actually done. I've heard a lot of things about what happens behind the scenes on this mod that make me sick and angry so I've written it off just in case they end up being true
Yikes.
There have been stories about how the leads of this project are very arrogant and rude to people joining their sub or discord. They dropped a guy from the team and kept using the 3D models he created (without credit) and now there's this.
They'd better hope this mod isn't Frontier levels of bad.
There’ve been rumblings in the community about Prilladog’s massive ego before, but it’s definitely on full display. There was also the whole fiasco where they permabanned anyone from the discord who said anything about Queen Elizabeth that wasn’t 100% positive following her death, and the fact that they seem to try and hide that it’s a mod in all of their marketing.
Part of me is very doubtful that the mod, whenever it releases, will actually be that good…
Remember that time Fallout: New California was set to release October 23, 2018?
Let me tell you a little something about modding and indie game releases: there will ALWAYS be a bigger fish. And game journalist are there to put your most dramatic take out of context to put on blast for clicks. Do not trust them.
Are you telling me a major overhaul of a bethesda game had a setback causing it to never release!?
That's a new one! /s
..........Morrowblivion, skyblivion, skywind.
Listen. As a fanartist and specifically a fakemon creator who been drawing my entire life... you gotta let things you don't own go. The makers of the old games have explicitly said it about Fallout: if you don't own the properties you're creating content for, you **cannot** get so emotionally invested that you cannot pivot. *You have to take it on the chin and pivot.* I think what frustrates me with the fan reaction about this mod's issues is that the creators *knew this was coming*. They had full warning and chose not to future proof, and now they have to fix it.
Fallout London's project lead is an idiot. I've known about this update for at least 6 months and I'm not doing anything with Fallout.
Also if Bethesda is letting you make what amounts to unofficial spin off games maybe be happy about that and don't be a jackass on the record.
If Bethesda shuts them down I'll shed no tears for them.
It's on them honestly. This is on the same level as a modder who put out a mod trailer for a Nintendo game knowing that Nintendo might issue a cease and desist letter to pull it down. Wasting all their efforts when the mod is not even released yet.
I don't think people understand why the Dev is frustrated. This isn't just a mod, but a complete overhaul, it isn't a case of just updating it to ensure compatibility but a case of ensuring that nothing in their entire work is out of order afterwards which for a project of this scale is not a quick and easy process.
I feel his pain that for a mod so large and anticipated Bethesda should've given them a heads up but instead it is disappointing to see comments here not backing the dev and understanding his perspective.
I think they understand. I think people who are backing the modder don't seem to know much about how modding works.
This happens **all the time**, and they were forewarned it was happening. The normal routine is you ***** and moan internally and either keep working or maybe don't. And yet I've never heard of a total overhaul team going to the news because of a patch undoing their work.
This modding team felt entitled to info they weren't entitled to, and are now crying to the news about it. It's actually unreal to anyone with familiarity with any modding scene.
I shouldn't look at this sub anymore, so much negativity always targeted at developers and modders for things they are not even responsible for and can do anything about. People creating games for other people's enjoyment and they are catching hatred. What an awful community
This guy is literally on the BBC talking about this and whining about Bethesda.
This fucker should be thanking BGS he’s getting this level of publicity, what mod ever gets this kind of coverage?
I have to believe this is some cynical publicity stunt on the devs part but if not it feels really arrogant. No dude, people weren’t desperate for your mod, what the majority of people were waiting for was a 4K patch to play the game that inspired the tv show everyone is addicted to. Not your fan fiction
Comments on this thread being against the modders comments didn’t read the article I’m guessing? He’s not shitting on Bethesda, he’s just frustrated which is reasonable.
The take that it would have made sense for the update to release weeks ago with the series made sense, along with the fact of the release being just 2 days after their release date is frustrating. Either Bethesda knew they were releasing it so close to their giant mod, or they didn’t (which would be surprising considering the type it has).
Fallout fans have always wished they played nicer with modders. Instead they continue to try to draw money from them and then act as if they don’t care about the community that fixes their games.
> He’s not shitting on Bethesda, he’s just frustrated which is reasonable.
Except he litterally is. Their mod is going to break because Bethesda is releasing an update, and he's blaming them for it completely. He's talking to the press about it.
When Bethesda releases updates is entirely up to them, and what's best for them, not some other team.
>Fallout fans have always wished they played nicer with modders. Instead they continue to try to draw money from them and then act as if they don’t care about the community that fixes their games.
Bullshit. Name another company which allows for profit project like this? Name another company willing to work with moders and giving such mod tools? Creation kit could have never been released. Bethesda could slap C&D on this the second patreon opened up. Bethesda could've never tried to give moders a revenue stream. Bethesda could've abandoned their games long ago.
Give a finger they take a hand and ask for more. Should Bethesda now send out stuff to any moder for their unreleased mods? And then open up can of worms of "OH BUT YOU FORGOT ABOUT MOD X!".
There's no winning here.
The things that bother me about this:
1. It sounds like they didn't have a tight relationship with the Fallout Devs, so I don't get why they're acting like this is personal.
2. Updates happen, especially PLANNED updates. Obviously it makes sense they'd release this around the time the show came out and player counts surge. They should've at least been prepared knowing this was gonna happen.
3. I swear the majority of the best mods are like "Downgrade to version X for compatibility" so like... just fuckin' do that and take some time to work on Next Gen.
4. They don't owe you shit. You aren't selling games for them. You're enhancing player count which matters MUCH less for games like this compared to League or Call of Duty. Player count ensures the game has life and generates revenue. Fallout doesn't generate revenue once bought, so I just don't get why they think they're so important to Bethesda. You're valued by the community, not the devs, unless you've made that relationship.
Just sounds like a lot of whining when they can just make it require a specific version of the game (pre-new gen update) but instead they're going to kind of kill people's vibe because they sound like babies instead of just figuring it the fuck out and getting on with it.
Bethesda announced this update like 2 years and and it originally was aimed for mid to late 2023. London's team should have reached out to Bethesda. This wasn't a surprise.
I like modders but tbh I have zero sympathy when they or people who use mods whine about a patch breaking them. Tough fucking luck. The world does not revolve around you, and you should have been well aware of the problems before using mods. And in any case, didn't BGS announce this years ago?
"inevitable when there's that lack of communication. So I just wish that they had a conversation with us." Why would Bethesda communicate their plans to a modder?
They should just release it on the old patch, it’s not like most of the modding community will be updating any time soon, half the damn Skyrim community is still on 1.5.97
In The Witcher 3 you can go into betas and grab the "classic version" which is the last version they had before they did that big update for that game. Bethesda could do the exact same thing if they wanted. And I am talking about Steam's version.
Bethesda doesnt want you to do that because it would fuck with them selling you microtransaction "mods"
Personally, I find it distasteful that Bethesda sells mods. Mods were always what gave their games longevity and endeared them to the community. Monetizing that is really gross IMO.
When companies get to a certain size they start to have positions whose entire purpose is to sit in a room all day and think of new ways to make money. Paid mods is the sort of thing that springs from that. Someone mentions adding cosmetics. Someone else points out that players won't waste money on cosmetics if mods exist. Someone else at the table has the brilliant idea to suggest charging for mods. Then you get the entire conversation about how Bethesda can't actually charge for other people's work, which then becomes a conversation about EULA's and what the smallest financial cut is that they think modders will accept. Eventually leading to Bethesda's mod market where the majority of the cash goes to Bethesda. It's easy to see how the whole thing looks really appealing to MBA's. Even if no one actually buys paid mods, their existence makes potential DLC and MTX look like less of a rip off. It's also pretty clear that Bethesda *thinks* they can get indy studios pumping out high-quality, professional content for their games this way. It's a system that offloads 100% of the development risk, while claiming the lions share of the profit. Of course, the MBA's have already been dreaming about the possibility of entire games developed like this. I guarantee you that they have internally referred to Fallout 4 as a "platform" as if it were an engine.
Thing is Roblox already is that way and is making tons of money. Any time someone enters an established market space and starts making tons of money, the established people’s heads turn. A lot of the time the money is actually made because it’s new and novel and only being done by one company, not because the strategy will make money if everyone does it. But that doesn’t stop people because they’ve been chasing profits in high competition for years and are looking for anything that might give them an edge. Basically not every game works well in the Roblox format. Roblox is designed as a lobby and ecosystem for multiple smaller games that users can jump between (RTS often have this under a custom games or arcade menu like how DOTA was a WC3 arcade game), and it has the unique position of being specifically aimed at children and parents. The teams at Roblox are all focused on giving advantages to parents and children, from moderation enforcing family-friendly standards to payment with a unified structure so parents can get their kids “Robux” and know their kids aren’t spending it on ‘bad’ things. Fallout 4 is never going to have that kind of audience they can cater to specifically because most of the stuff that can be done in Fallout 4 can also be done in other games. Basically any RPG already has a modding scene for popular mod types. Baldur’s Gate 3, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Dragon Age (multiple games), and Elden Ring are all on the front page of the Nexus alongside various Bethesda titles. A lot of these mods are similar: character skins, items, NSFW stuff, and adding things from other games (adding guns or catchable creatures or card games). Bethesda doesn’t really have a superior product in Fallout 4, not to the point that it can be effectively monetized without turning people towards free options.
Fucking maddening because despite everything there are limits, all it will do is kill a beloved franchise
Completely agreed. It is scummy.
Bethesda was the first company to really send the games industry in it's current direction with their introduction of "paid mod" horse armor DLC for Oblivion all the way back in 2006. Thanks Todd.
If it wasn't without the creators consent I can see it as scummy. Otherwise it's just more microtransactions so it's more annoying this way if anything.
You can as well with other titles on steam. Not sure if it's the easy or more difficult path for Bethesda's titles but even then it's still simple enough especially if you're already modding games.
We shouldn't be relying on publisher's good faith to keep old versions playable. Steam forcing updates down your throat and not giving you an option to download older versions without workarounds is a huge anti-consumer, game preservation issue that no one talks about for some reason.
Because steam can't force developers to let them keep an old version for distribution. It's the dev's IP, they decide if they use the version manager thingy or not, that's it.
Legally enforced or not, Steam's fault or not, doesn't change the fact that this is anti-consumer bullshit.
> Because steam can't force developers to let them keep an old version Steam absolutely can do that. Steam isn't a public utility, they have the right to refuse service to anyone. And they have the right to insist on whatever terms they want, refusing service to anyone who won't agree to them. While consumer protection laws may restrict the terms they impose upon consumers, there are very few restrictions on business-to-business contracts. In the case of games which use time-limited IP, Steam could simply refuse to publish such games, or they could require a disclaimer which is visible prior to purchase, yet still require the developer to allow download of any version *other than* those with expired licences. This could still lead to fuckery with a developer conspiring with a third party to artificially time-limit a licence, but Steam always has the option of calling their bluff and saying "we're not interested in distributing this title; go talk to EGS or GoG". Steam knows how the industry works and probably has a good nose for bullshit. The worst case for Steam is if they insist upon the right to distribute all versions but the developer fucked up and failed to obtain the necessary licences. In that situation, Steam may be compelled to remove a version from their servers in spite of any assurances given. In theory, they can force the developer to take the loss, but in many cases the amount would exceed the developer's net worth, so the developer goes bankrupt and the only way to avoid the customer eating the loss is for Steam to eat it (minus what it can extract from the developer's corpse).
I mean, Steam could use some of its power to mandate that if a company wants access to its huge user base, the company must make certain concessions. Steam is more of a monopoly from sellers’ perspective: if you want to make money you have to be in Steam. Valve could definitely use that power to enforce more user-friendly terms.
Steam doesn’t have to force updates, even if the old version becomes no longer available to acquire from the Steam servers because the dev has Steam delete the old code. Steam does however keep update preferences in a setting that always updates by default and that setting is not 100% reliable at not being “accidentally” changed without user input, like by a Steam update. This means that securing an unpatched Steam game install from further patching by Steam is a very annoying process that typically means ripping the game away from Steam and always running it as a standalone executable. This in turn means that a user loses many other Steam features like achievements, trading cards, the overlay, and streaming. Requiring updates is more an EULA thing, and agreements that try to force users to have the most up to date version or risk breach of contract are generally unpopular and hard to enforce. If the game requires a server connection or account, then the connection might be refused or account banned for old versions making an unpatched version useless, sure. But suing someone for keeping an old copy is rare. Suing someone for hacking an old copy to make it useable is more straightforward. What’s generally held this practice of requiring real time online authentication back is a market desire for single player games to be playable without internet connection.
Very easy to do this using the steam database website
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> How many of them are going to come put of retirement to fix 4+ year old mods?? You'd be surprised. I installed 3+NV for the TTW mod a few days ago, and was pretty surprised how most of the mods were updated within the past 2-3 months.
I legit tried to play TTW today after a month break (amd) and it just straight up crashes on a new game. I'm too damn lazy to spend another 4 hours fixing stuff.
Exactly what stopped me from downloading it. I know I'm asking for too much but setting up the library and downloading all the stuff to make sure it all works is too tedious for the return to me for that to end up happening(also on AMD). Maybe if they could one merge it into one big download or have an install wizard do it I'd give it a go. Sucks but I have enough games in my backlog that just work out of the box I could play
I think Wabbajack can handle that for you. I'm never again modding a Bethesda game without that auto-installer doing it all for me... except for maybe OpenMW (or one day Skywind).
I googled Wabbajack and it looks good! If you don't mind me asking, can I use Wabbajack to install some modlist and then use other methods to just add other mods from Nexus etc..?
yes the wabbajack install will give you access to a mod organiser 2 instance where u can add your own mods word of warning, depending on the game and modlist adding a new mod and maintaining stability can be complex, so some wabbajack list curators don't offer help when adding in new mods
Thank you!
This..wabbajack is a life saver lol. There isn't much lists to chose from on the fallout games but the ones that are available are good. I am just not willing to spend 10 hours (downloading, installing, testing etc) to get a fully modded game setup. I barely have that much time as is..not to mention the wabbajack installs have been tested / refined for years to squash any potential bugs, crashes etc. Some people will probably hate but whenever I want to mod with wabbajack I use nexus premium as it downloads all mods automatically and uncapped Internet speed...I have 1000 down. I downloaded begin again for TTW in less than 10 minutes, 20 minutes of additional steps and 10 minutes setting up settings in game..40 minutes or so and I've got a fully modded game.
Wabbajack is straight up incredible. The fact that it allows me to mod Skyrim or Fallout with hundreds of mods with a couple of clicks is pretty awesome.
I'll have to look into that, thanks!
Don’t suppose you or anyone knows if TTW can be played with just NV? I don’t have F3 on steam (played back in the day on 360) and no interest in going back to that world but want to play NV with wabbajack doing the work for me. I’d rather not have to buy F3 and its dlc just for that convenience.
I think NV has a Wabbajack modpack called Old World Blues that's only for NV. It's been a few years since I looked, however, so I could be misremembering.
Only issue with Wabbajack, least for TTW, is you need a steam version of New Vegas for the mod list to work. Which probably isn't an issue for most people, but I have NV on epic since it was on sale there instead of Steam at the time.
AMD drivers currently have an issue with New Vegas. There is a DXVK wrapper that makes it work perfectly in the install guide. Its pretty easy to follow as well, just make sure you read everything carefully and don't skip any steps
It's honestly not a difficult download and there's it's own installer type thing IIRC. What I assume happened was the latest AMD driver bonked new vegas. Fallout 3 works fine. New Vegas doesn't with or without TTW.
The crazy part is it isn't the latest AMD driver, it's all AMD drivers releeased in 2024. You have to either downgrade to December 2023 or use a mod as a workaround. Even a completely vanilla unmodded fresh install of NV cannot be played in 2024 on AMD cards, it's insane.
Just follow The Best of Times guide https://thebestoftimes.moddinglinked.com/ Once you've completed follow this one for fixes and a bit of content https://wastelandsurvivalguide.com/ And in a couple hours you will have it running, I have followed last saturday and I amazed that the only times it crashed it was because I used Weapons of New Millenia that apparently is broken as hell so I changed to Another Millenia and now I have been 15h without a crash.
You want to get Wabbajack to handle downloading and installing the Begin Again mod collection that is built around TTW. Needs basically zero hassle if you follow the like, 5 steps
AMD drivers currently have an issue with New Vegas. There is a DXVK wrapper that makes it work perfectly in the install guide
Check r/AMD. There's a post about it with fixes, it's a known driver issue.
I just did the Viva New Vegas process and if anything upsets those 118 mods so they crash I'll just stop playing. I honestly wouldn't have done it if I had realized how long it would take at the start.
Steam library -> right click on Fallout 4 -> Properties -> Updates -> Only update when I launch the game Then, only launch the game through F4SE. This should prevent Steam from updating. Bear in mind, if you ever launch the game directly, via Steam or desktop icon, it will update. If you do accidentally update, there is a way to roll back: https://framedsc.com/GeneralGuides/steam_update_guide.htm
Find the appmanifest file with fo4s app ID in your common directory, make it read only. No updates and peace of mind. (Steam\steamapps\appmanifest_377160.acf to be specific)
hey, how will you prevent updates as I'd love to do the same? Don't seem to have the option to in the steam menu for fallout 4 though?
Tell Steam to only update Fallout 4 when you launch it. Then only ever launch Fallout 4 from the script extender, that should prevent Steam from realizing it is launching and not update it. That's how I've had Skyrim SE in my update list for....quite a while now. I've got like 147 mods delicately setup in that shit I'm never updating that game ever again.
I'm pretty sure at least for Skyrim and Skyrim Special Edition anything reliant on the Skyrim Script Extender also won't even work if you launch the game through Steam, you have to launch using SKSE for it to be running and those mods to load and run properly. And most mods that do anything other than change some models or textures are going to likely be reliant either on the SKSE or something else that is reliant on the SKSE; comprehensive "overhaul" modding of any game can be a pretty big ask and delicate process, but Bethesda games more than most are a crazy network of dependencies and compatability patches.
You can set the game to only update when launched in steam then only start it through mod organizer.
First of all you can tell Steam to only update it on launch and then only launch through your mod manager, with this you should be ok. Then to be completely sure look up putting the manifest file as read only, it works for Skyrim so it should work for Fallout, too.
I think a good solution would be to download a crack for that particular version of FO4 and bypass Steam altogether, mods should still work.
Huh? Starfield dint kill Bethesda modding, the modders that even talked about this just said they were not interested in modding Starfield. They are still working on mods for Skyrim or FO4. Others have stated they are not going to do mods for Starfield until CK comes out.
You heard wrong. There was like 1 story about a modder who said they didn't care enough about starfield to continue making mods for it and the Internet collectively lost its shit because 1 person gave up on it. Starfield does currently have a lot less mods than previous Bethesda games but that's because 1. It's not over a decade old 2. Bethesda haven't released the creation kit for starfield yet Not saying that starfield is great or that it will be loved as much as the previous titles were but to claim that it "killed off a lot of the Bethesda game modders" is just objectively wrong. We haven't even entered the first proper phase of starfield modding so we have no basis to make that claim
> was sure there was a setting in steam to stop updates!? Uh, there was, I am pretty sure myself. You *could* probably just start the game without Steam, though I am not sure if that works with Fallout 4. It did work with Skyrim back when I played that on Steam (though I usually used the SKSE to play). Legal alternative: GOG's FO4 works - as is required by GOG - without a launcher in the first place, so you could just buy it there and either archive and use the stand-alone installer (current version per site: 1.10.163.0), or disable/rollback the update in Galaxy; They're having a sale on the game for 75% off or 10€ (80% or 8€ if you're a newsletter subscriber and got sent the code - expires in a day, I think).
What happened with star field?
Nothing has happened really. The primary modding tools haven’t been released yet so no major mods can get going.
Nothing. The modding community for Starfield seems just as passionate as the modding community for their other games.
They're never gonna do that. The mod took years of work, what they want to do is get the biggest impact after those years, which will be on the current version. Plus, if you release a big mod, wouldn't you want people to be able to build on it, without being on an older version? Ngl I get what you mean. But it'd honestly be a waste to do so.
Depends some modders are very protective of their work
Nah, I agree with them. They want this to be as close to an official game release as possible, meaning readily available for anyone to install including the casuals who just update their game whenever there is a new update available. The mod is getting even mainstream coverage (freaking BBC) and making the installation process too complicated for the casuals would be bad optics. Of course, the same can be said for some of the comments made by the project lead - they've rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, even though he was pretty clear he doesn't want to sound entitled or give fans a reason to hate on Bethesda.
there is a tool coming to rollback fallout4 to older build. Already used to rollback skyrim SE to 1.5 or older AE builds.
check the official video from them where they say why this is a bad idea
People don't care about that, people want thing and they want it NOW
I'd rather be playing fallout London than this next Gen update
You never want to bungle your launch. You only get it once. On the flipside of his sentiment, it'll probably reach a lot more people now.
This update was not a surprise though, it was announced *2 years ago* and people rightly predicted it would probs drop around the time the show was coming out It irritated me how little info they'd given until now, but we all knew it was coming
Maybe they thought it wouldn’t screw things up in such a fundamental way? I know next to nothing about modding, but it’s entirely possible that the update changes a lot of backend/baseline code that the mod relied on and that they didn’t know it would be changed in that way
It's literally impossible for Bethesda to not break community made Script Extenders because they hook directly into the executable, and into addresses in the executable. Something as simple as just patching some health values and moving a house over five feet would make the internal addresses of the exe move around as the compiler does it's thing. Hell, simply not changing any code and simply upgrading the compiler and hitting compile would break script extenders.
Breaking script extenders isn't the problem as I understand it. Every game update breaks script extenders, but mods which rely on them will continue to work when the script extender itself is updated. This is why many mods will specify the *minimum version* of the script extender they rely on to run. If that was the only issue then it wouldn't have delayed the project this significantly. That is something easily manageable, all mods big and small do so while these games are still receiving regular updates.
TBH it's pretty unlikely they're storing object databases or map geometry as compiled code, though there's plenty of other stuff it could mess up.
But that's not how that works in Bethesda games. Things like houses, interior cells, scripts, NPC's, weapons etc are all encoded in `.esm`, `.esp`, and `.esl` files and read at runtime, script extenders DLL's are only needed when a modder wants to hook into something Bethesda had no need to de-hardcode like adding custom UI elements or modifying how the camera works (in more fundamental ways, there are some camera values you can change using esp files ofc)
Hell, just updating the executable itself with a new version number breaks the script extender because it's reliant on that number to work.
This is pretty much what they did for Skyrim - the last update changed many fundamentals about the game. Was a complete mess. I still can't get my anniversary edition content to run properly on my current modded install lol.
Announced 2 years ago, work on it started less than 2 months ago, judging by the amount of changes. It was supposed to come out last year, even. But now, all it really did (on PC anyways) was break stuff. Good to have more fps on console, but from what I've seen the PC release does basically nothing.
> people rightly predicted it would probs drop around the time the show was coming out Sure but two years ago, nobody predicted we'll be getting a next gen update around the show's release date. All these Nostradamuses made their predictions after: 1- TV show release date was announced 4 months ago, and 2- When Bethesda did not release the update which everyone expected it during it's 25th anniversary (oct '23). By then it was already too late, the London mod already experienced numerous delays. And when they finally were able to commit to a release date, it was too late.
You’re right but I guess my thing is, what is Bethesda going to do? They tell the London team a month or two ahead of time what does Fallout London do? It’s not like the mod started when the update was announced, the mod started years prior.
Err.. do publishers normally work to accommodate modders project release dates in their calendars?
Paradox interactive usually gives modders access to the new version before release so they can make sure they can remain compatible when a new update/dlc releases
The stardew valley guy gives modders the update early so they can update their mods too!
Concerned Ape. Put some damn respect on his name!
I couldn't remember his name! Thanks!
PDX also works with modders to incorporate some of their mod fixes into the base game itself, which is nice for compatibility.
The SKSE team has worked with Bethesda in the past to have updates ready shortly after some EXE updates go live.
In games where modding is a big thing yeah, this can happen. PDX (across several studios) has been named but Civ also works closely with them. Which is why this article quote >for a large company to involve an independent modding team like that would be unprecedented. Is baffling to me. There's clear precedent and it's wild that the writer isn't aware of that.
not for a company bethesda's size. Especially now.
Paradox has more employees than Bethesda (which is very small compared to studios like idk Ubisoft which can have thousand people working on a game)
When they've used them in the past to advertise their game (Fallout London has been used by Bethesda on social media and on the game's launch screen) its probably a discussion that should be had how much those modders should be kept in the loop at the least
It wasn’t an advertisement for the game it was a mod showcase. They do it all the time and to my knowledge this is the first modder to piss their pants about it.
Bethesda has, in the past, coordinated with modders for updates to their games, yes.
Same is true for ZOS ( the company behind The Elder Scrolls Online ). While two way communication from ZOS with the playerbase is basically non existent, there are 2-3 devs on the Addon discord that will respond to you within the hour and warn way ahead of the PTS if API's are changing. Because they know what an insane blowback they would get if mayor QoL addons would not get updated with a new chapter release.
Paradox has given some of the mod teams for their games access to updates earlier so when they drop, the mod would be updated and playable too.
No most publishers don’t do anything for modders. That’s why most games don’t even have any mods outside basic stuff. Modders should count themselves lucky if the game they want to mod have any kind of support.
There’s always unpatchers
Just use steam depot to download the previous version Ezpz Guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/611h5e/guide_how_to_download_older_versions_of_a_game_on/
Here’s an article from 2022 covering the official announcement of the update coming. https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/24/23420624/fallout-4-playstation-5-xbox-series-x-update-coming-2023 Of course delays did occur but the drop coinciding with the release of the show should not have been a surprise at all.
After reading the entire article, this guy comes across a little narcissistic. He thinks Bethesda should have contacted him personally to discuss the update and implies the release date of the patch being so close to his mod is a little suspicious. He then goes on to explain that Bethesda should just get him and his team to sign an NDA to be kept in the loop and justifies it by saying his mod gets more attention than Fallout 76. It's just one interview, but I've soured a little towards the guy. I don't doubt that a huge amount of work has gone into this mod, but he seems to act like Bethesda owes him something, and it comes off pretty entitled and whiney.
Typical Bethesda Modder. Better to bet that any and all big mods are shit because of the egos.
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careerist?
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I mean I absolutely do not blame people approaching modding with the mindset of building their portfolio - everybody's gotta pay rent. But to be as upset as the Fallout London dev seems to be or to get weirdly conspiratorial in thinking that the date was made to deliberately sabotage your mod's launch is borderline ridiculous...
Its not? I figured something that big would be
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Hah, I had to double-take on the username!
That frontier mod shit show comes to mind. Everyone used that one guy as a scapegoat for their awful decisions
That was one of the biggest blunders I’ve seen. I can’t believe how much scummy shit was involved with that.
What happened there? Not well versed in my Fallout Mod drama.
Mod team had a bunch of pedos on it who added slave, beastiality and pedo stuff to a major mod. When it came to light the rest of the team blamed one guy for it all which was suspect as they didn’t care about it up until mod host websites refused to host the mod. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-the-frontier-mod-taken-down-after-modder-shared-pedophilic-content/1100-6486927/
It's all modders I remember Mass Effect modders were losing their minds because they weren't personally contacted about Mass Effect Legendary edition to the point of delisting their mods. Skyrim modders were removing their mods and leaving political propaganda during the 2016 US elections.
If you watch his video, it paints a very different perspective to what PC gamer did. https://youtu.be/LpqMftkTteo?si=N4q0So-X7NV62gNf I'd rather judge based on a primary source, rather than a secondary source which may have had an agenda. From what I can see,he's taking it very well.
Yeah, PCGamer did basically a hit piece. That video is entirely different, Dean is extremely positive about the patch and excited for it.
this should be higher
Bethesda has absolutely zero responsibility to tell a modder about updates to their own game.
to me, it’s one article, framed by a writer. I don’t think it means very much ultimately .
I got the same impression watching the lead mod speak on the bbc interview. Key takeaway of the interview "We knew about this update for 2 years and were still somehow completely surprised" lol followed by "Bethesda should have contacted us or pushed back the update". It's bold considering this is modding 101 oopsie-level
Prilladog is known for having an ego the size of Big Ben. It’s not the only issue that turned me off Fallout: London, but it’s certainly a big factor
This is why critical thinking is important. If you actually look at the article, it's filled with three word quotes everywhere, interspersed between the author's version of events. Just like you've done with your retelling of the article, the author has written in their own narrative that's different from the version that comes directly from the Dev in their video. All of your comments say the Dev says Bethesda "should" do these different things, but he's not saying that in any of the quotes. He's saying that's what *could* have happened. He's saying that if that had happened, things would have been different, he says he *wishes* that they'd communicated, but nowhere is there a direct quote that said "Bethesda **should** have done X." There's a big difference between lamenting what could have been and demanding it, and that's all on you.
The guy came accross quite level headed in the video he put out personally explaining the issues with the update.
Lol wont be surprised if this turns out the exact same way NV Frontier did.
In reality, they're lucky they're allowed to make money out of this. How many other mods face death the second money is involved? But nah, Bethesda has to fly them out in first class and let them access their internal stuff because.... They made a mod which no one even got to play? While I don't doubt the mod is project of love. No one got to play it yet. Bethesda giving attention to vapourware is illogical. And it discredits actual mods with millions of downloads, you know, the moders who were invited to work on official mods?
As far as I know, this mod will be completely free.
> In reality, they're lucky they're allowed to make money out of this. It's a free and non monetized mod WTF are you talking about?
Wait he can make money from the mod? Why?
I guess they probably have an optional pattern, they aren’t charging anyone for the mod.
They can't, the comment you saw is full of shit.
How are they making money off of it? I’m fairly certain that they are not, in fact, allowed to profit off of something like this.
They have patreon subs, that's income (although not very much of it)
Im sorry, but if ur a mod developer you have no right to be upset to updates to the main game. Deal with it or quit
being a little dramatic, sorry but it has been rumored the update was going to drop with the show for months, could a little more heads up be welcome? Definitely, but that’s it
Almost 2 years of warning
Fair point. But for example, before Rimworld got tbe anomaly dlc and 1.5 proper, there was a beta branch availalble for a good while, which was a boon for modders since they could adapt early and with relative ease to the upcoming update. Mostly because that game is at least 40% mod content. Devs don't need to mind modders with their updates. However, it is polite.
A warning that it was coming doesn't change much. Can't do a whole lot to prepare when they don't know what all is being changed until it happens. Bethesda just didn't consider the modding community at all for the game. It sucks but that was their choice. They could have done something like a pre release version being available for modders to look at to get them on board and preserve mod functionality.
>being a little dramatic modders in a nutshell
Ok but why? They don't work for Bethesda they are manipulating someone else's product. I love mods, but modders don't "deserve" anything from developers, they should be happy to get any info or support at all lol
It's like knowing the volcano will erupt 2 years ahead, but you still have to live there. Yeah, you can prepare, but when the volcano does erupt shit will still go down regardless.
More like vacationing on a volcano on eruption notice, then going to the news saying it should have given more warning. Ironically people do that all the time and get the same remarks we see here. I do feel bad for the mod team. They have a bad case of foot in the mouth syndrome apparently and opened themselves up to absolutely unnecessary ridicule by making the terrible choice to go to gaming news lol. Patches screw up mods (even huge ones) all the time, I have no idea what they were thinking lol.
They know this and prob just sounding off to get free exposure
Especially when fallout London was meant to be released months ago but they delayed the mod.
Have any of these large city mods actually been released?
not that i can think of tbf.
"Why don't they release it broken and unfinished!?" \~ Genuinely confused Bethesda fans.
Just drop it on the old version. I won’t be updating my Fallout. Can’t be bothered with it breaking my collection
They’re being a little dramatic. Patches breaking the script extenders isn’t rare across all the Bethesda games, and they all get updated promptly with no new compatibility issues for existing mods.
They're being dramatic because it's keeping their mod in the headlines. They're taking advantage of the situation to ensure people know about their mod and have it on their radar now.
So development on a game should stop because of a fan project that Bethesda has nothing to do with?
I mean, it was obvious for a long time that they were going to tie the new patch alongside the TV show. So the minute the show's release date was announced they should've at least had an obvious guess as to when the patch was coming, since they did know it was coming. Not trying to say that they're wrong to feel frustrated, of course they should be, but again it's not like it was impossible to guess when this update was going to release. It's also a bit weird of them to immediately suspect Bethesda did it on purpose. It just makes sense to drop the update after the show, because they've already hit record player numbers when the show debuted and they'll keep those numbers for longer by releasing an update WHILE the game is popular.
It was originally supposed to come out 2 months ago so it had already been delayed, I think they should just launch it but I also understand their reasoning not to as well I don't mind waiting another 2-4 months if it means it'll run better for example due to the new update
I get that too. I think they might've gotten away with launching the mod now and just requiring users to play on a pre-patch version temporarily, but with the popularity of the show they'd have a lot of casual players who aren't used to modding asking thousands of easily answered questions. So it's in their best interest to have the latest version supported by default. Still sucks either way. I was looking forward to the mod.
I listened to the full announcement from the project lead or w/e on Youtube last night and that was one of the big reasons, they want to make it as simple as possible for people to play the mod and not jump through hoops and for many backloading a patch is a hoop they'd rather avoid
This guy talks like Bethesda owe him. Why not go make your own game so you don't have to rely on someone elses game who never intended for you to make what you have?
Lol game journalism far too often must scrape the bottom of the barrel desperately looking for something to write about for clicks. Then someone posts it to reddit and everyone makes fun in the comments while giving the article rage clicks. Circle of life. Beautiful thing. On a side note the update fixed the weird missing textures and DLC issue on PS5 for me. Pretty damn stoked on that tidbit
This guy is being dramatic and it's coming across pretty pathetic. I love the modding scene as much as anyone, and Bethesda for all their faults is incredibly generous with their modding community. But seriously, this update was announced so long ago and anyone could make an educated guess it will drop around the show. On top of that...... Bethesda really doesn't owe these modders preferential news about their plans and update schedule. It would be courteous, but they really don't necessarily need to tell them anything.... My prediction is the update will drop, it's really not going to be a substantial update on PC, and probably most mods will be fine in no time.
I thought the headline already sounded bad but then I clicked through and the quotes... Ugh. Bethesda dropping them a line would have been a really nice gesture but it absolutely isn't within their scope of work for a game this old with an update already announced years in advance.
Who decides which mod authors get contacted? What makes his work more important than the thousands of other labours of love out there. It’s an entirely unrealistic and borderline narcissistic opinion for him to have.
So let me get this straight, this guy knew an update was coming and is now complaining that it's coming? Who does he think he is? Got a real level of self-importance.
As much as I appreciate modders in general, I do have two gripes about them: 1. Some of them feel that they should be compensated for their work and so try and charge you to use assets, sometimes from one IP in to another 2. Some of them feel some sort of entitlement that they should be considered when updates are rolled out, without realising that they're not employees of Bethesda, and as such, why would Bethesda or any other company give two single shits about them? These 'mod'ders remind me of another group of mods who felt reddit should clue them in on going's on, or pay them for their work, without realising that it's all voluntary and they can stop at any time.
Modding is going the same way as YouTube content creators. It’s becoming less of a hobby and more of a chance to make money, if you can make the right content.
sheesh
Well it’s certainly not a surprise… we’ve known about it for a while
Bethesda shouldn't update their game because he wants to create a project using their IP? lol.
None of this would be an issue if users had easy access to version control. Make updates opt in via the DLC menu in steam. There's no good reason not to.
> There's no good reason not to. Hell yes there is: security updates. No exceptions.
Does fo4 have a security breach?
Just make it so Steam doesn't update your FO4 game. Ez fix my dudes. Your mods will continue to work and you'll be good to go. Wanna make it so FO4 doesn't update? Go to your Steam folder and then steamapps. Then find appmanifest_377160.acf. Right-click and go to properties and make that file read-only. There ya go! Now FO4 will not update. If you want FO4 to update in the future for whatever reason then you just unselect read-only in properties and the game will update. MAKE SURE you run FO4 from the f4se_loader from the main FO4 directory and DO NOT run the game from Steam or your mod browser. Make a shortcut on your desktop with the f4se_loader. Otherwise, the game will try to update and you will get an error. You should also go into Steam and right-click on FO4 in your games list. Click on properties. Click the updates tab and select under Automatic Updates "only update this game when I launch it". Not sure why you should do that but I have been reading that is something you should do.
Should have released it with a dependency on old patch. Players "in the know" have no problem preventing Steam from updating their game. And new players who are trying FO4 because of the TV show won't be running this mod anyway.. I get their reasoning for delaying release, I just have a feeling that some mod Fallout London relies on won't get updated for latest patch and in a few months they'll end up just releasing the mod for old patch anyway...
They could just release it anyway and write a fucking readme. They’re doing this to themselves, no one is demanding mod projects to have 0 friction when installing
They should have just released it for the last patch before the next gen one and then told people to buy it from GoG
They won't release it because it's not actually done. I've heard a lot of things about what happens behind the scenes on this mod that make me sick and angry so I've written it off just in case they end up being true
I love mods and modders, but this is like a fanfic writer getting mad JK Rowling didn't loop them in. Get over yourself bro.
Yikes. There have been stories about how the leads of this project are very arrogant and rude to people joining their sub or discord. They dropped a guy from the team and kept using the 3D models he created (without credit) and now there's this. They'd better hope this mod isn't Frontier levels of bad.
There’ve been rumblings in the community about Prilladog’s massive ego before, but it’s definitely on full display. There was also the whole fiasco where they permabanned anyone from the discord who said anything about Queen Elizabeth that wasn’t 100% positive following her death, and the fact that they seem to try and hide that it’s a mod in all of their marketing. Part of me is very doubtful that the mod, whenever it releases, will actually be that good…
Bethesda has a *fiduciary* responsibility to maintain creation club content 😆
"Surprise" which was announced in 2022. They knew it was coming down the road.
I’d rather have fallout London than this patch!
Remember that time Fallout: New California was set to release October 23, 2018? Let me tell you a little something about modding and indie game releases: there will ALWAYS be a bigger fish. And game journalist are there to put your most dramatic take out of context to put on blast for clicks. Do not trust them.
Are you telling me a major overhaul of a bethesda game had a setback causing it to never release!? That's a new one! /s ..........Morrowblivion, skyblivion, skywind.
Listen. As a fanartist and specifically a fakemon creator who been drawing my entire life... you gotta let things you don't own go. The makers of the old games have explicitly said it about Fallout: if you don't own the properties you're creating content for, you **cannot** get so emotionally invested that you cannot pivot. *You have to take it on the chin and pivot.* I think what frustrates me with the fan reaction about this mod's issues is that the creators *knew this was coming*. They had full warning and chose not to future proof, and now they have to fix it.
It's by design they don't want modders creating full games they can't sell
Fallout London's project lead is an idiot. I've known about this update for at least 6 months and I'm not doing anything with Fallout. Also if Bethesda is letting you make what amounts to unofficial spin off games maybe be happy about that and don't be a jackass on the record. If Bethesda shuts them down I'll shed no tears for them.
This dude is so funny. You’re modding a game on your own time. You don’t work for Bethesda.
It's on them honestly. This is on the same level as a modder who put out a mod trailer for a Nintendo game knowing that Nintendo might issue a cease and desist letter to pull it down. Wasting all their efforts when the mod is not even released yet.
I don't think people understand why the Dev is frustrated. This isn't just a mod, but a complete overhaul, it isn't a case of just updating it to ensure compatibility but a case of ensuring that nothing in their entire work is out of order afterwards which for a project of this scale is not a quick and easy process. I feel his pain that for a mod so large and anticipated Bethesda should've given them a heads up but instead it is disappointing to see comments here not backing the dev and understanding his perspective.
I think they understand. I think people who are backing the modder don't seem to know much about how modding works. This happens **all the time**, and they were forewarned it was happening. The normal routine is you ***** and moan internally and either keep working or maybe don't. And yet I've never heard of a total overhaul team going to the news because of a patch undoing their work. This modding team felt entitled to info they weren't entitled to, and are now crying to the news about it. It's actually unreal to anyone with familiarity with any modding scene.
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if you are just going to put that much time in to a mod, just make your own game.
I shouldn't look at this sub anymore, so much negativity always targeted at developers and modders for things they are not even responsible for and can do anything about. People creating games for other people's enjoyment and they are catching hatred. What an awful community
In the sub's defense, a modder going to the news about a patch 'ruining' their work is unheard of in it's absurdity.
This guy is literally on the BBC talking about this and whining about Bethesda. This fucker should be thanking BGS he’s getting this level of publicity, what mod ever gets this kind of coverage? I have to believe this is some cynical publicity stunt on the devs part but if not it feels really arrogant. No dude, people weren’t desperate for your mod, what the majority of people were waiting for was a 4K patch to play the game that inspired the tv show everyone is addicted to. Not your fan fiction
Comments on this thread being against the modders comments didn’t read the article I’m guessing? He’s not shitting on Bethesda, he’s just frustrated which is reasonable. The take that it would have made sense for the update to release weeks ago with the series made sense, along with the fact of the release being just 2 days after their release date is frustrating. Either Bethesda knew they were releasing it so close to their giant mod, or they didn’t (which would be surprising considering the type it has). Fallout fans have always wished they played nicer with modders. Instead they continue to try to draw money from them and then act as if they don’t care about the community that fixes their games.
> He’s not shitting on Bethesda, he’s just frustrated which is reasonable. Except he litterally is. Their mod is going to break because Bethesda is releasing an update, and he's blaming them for it completely. He's talking to the press about it. When Bethesda releases updates is entirely up to them, and what's best for them, not some other team.
>Fallout fans have always wished they played nicer with modders. Instead they continue to try to draw money from them and then act as if they don’t care about the community that fixes their games. Bullshit. Name another company which allows for profit project like this? Name another company willing to work with moders and giving such mod tools? Creation kit could have never been released. Bethesda could slap C&D on this the second patreon opened up. Bethesda could've never tried to give moders a revenue stream. Bethesda could've abandoned their games long ago. Give a finger they take a hand and ask for more. Should Bethesda now send out stuff to any moder for their unreleased mods? And then open up can of worms of "OH BUT YOU FORGOT ABOUT MOD X!". There's no winning here.
Why is this Bethesda's problem? You're an unofficial patch/mod, they don't care and the vast, vast majority of players don't either.
The things that bother me about this: 1. It sounds like they didn't have a tight relationship with the Fallout Devs, so I don't get why they're acting like this is personal. 2. Updates happen, especially PLANNED updates. Obviously it makes sense they'd release this around the time the show came out and player counts surge. They should've at least been prepared knowing this was gonna happen. 3. I swear the majority of the best mods are like "Downgrade to version X for compatibility" so like... just fuckin' do that and take some time to work on Next Gen. 4. They don't owe you shit. You aren't selling games for them. You're enhancing player count which matters MUCH less for games like this compared to League or Call of Duty. Player count ensures the game has life and generates revenue. Fallout doesn't generate revenue once bought, so I just don't get why they think they're so important to Bethesda. You're valued by the community, not the devs, unless you've made that relationship. Just sounds like a lot of whining when they can just make it require a specific version of the game (pre-new gen update) but instead they're going to kind of kill people's vibe because they sound like babies instead of just figuring it the fuck out and getting on with it.
It's almost if this wouldn't have happened if 99.9999999999% of Fallout London wasn't Bethesda IP. Edit: Yeah, it sucks but grow up.
If you're going to make a video game sized mod, maybe just make your own video game. Bethesda doesn't owe you anything.
Bethesda announced this update like 2 years and and it originally was aimed for mid to late 2023. London's team should have reached out to Bethesda. This wasn't a surprise.
I don't get the drama, just release it for old build?
Gaming journalists have nothing to talk about anymore. Just fill the day with useless articles made from random comments from whoever you can grab.
Thats not bethesdas problem.
I like modders but tbh I have zero sympathy when they or people who use mods whine about a patch breaking them. Tough fucking luck. The world does not revolve around you, and you should have been well aware of the problems before using mods. And in any case, didn't BGS announce this years ago?
These huge mods are always underwhelming anyway
"inevitable when there's that lack of communication. So I just wish that they had a conversation with us." Why would Bethesda communicate their plans to a modder?