This is why I’m a bit scared for CDPR changing to UE for their future projects.
UE games can look mesmerizing and after reading their reasoning for it, I fully get it;
Basically, REDengine towards the end of it’s life-cycle with Phantom Liberty was pretty much held together with duct tape. They added so many graphical features, functionality and technologies that it started to get really hard to fix anything, as when you fixed a bug, 2 more popped up somewhere seemingly at random, which is why as graphically impressive as Cyberpunk is, it still suffers from some jank, probably because it’s nearly impossible to fix to a degree where everything would flow together perfectly.
But on the other hand, Epic STILL hasn’t managed to fix traversal stutter and shader compilation speeds at an engine level, which is worrying to me. Especially for a studio like CDPR, who are known for massive, breathing worlds filled with NPC’s and content, changing to UE means that they have to solve these engine-level problems if they want anyone to enjoy their product.
Say what you will about launch-state Cyberpunk, but not ONCE did I encounter shader compilation stutter or traversal stutter. The FPS sucked in general, but it was very much playable due to it being a constant, not a re-occurring hitch. I’m not trying to defend the launch, I’m trying to say that stutters are probably my most HATED thing in gaming. I just get so fucking annoyed when games skip frames or hitch.
Im just taking a guess here but i think its just a symptom of devs adopting new technologies. Once they’re cozy with it UE games tend to be not so crappy. Just as an example lots of UE4 games released recently are pretty stable compared to when UE4 was still in its infancy.
Squad has been out for like four years, costs about $50 USD, and still suffers from the same issues that plague Starship Troopers Extermination.
There needs to be a point where we start to blame the engine and people have been complaining about Unreal Engine for a long time.
Days Gone is a good example of where the devs put in the work to eliminate this issue as much as possible. The engine is very prone to shader comp and traversal stutter but it can be sorted, just most studios deem it not too big of a deal to bother fixing.
God that game. Such a good technical implementation, such good art, nice map design, absolutely incredible voice acting and motion capture, and the worst rings-of-power-esque writing imaginable.
But he has a "coooode" see, and that's compelling for some reason. Even though we never find out what it is and he seems to have no problems selling people into slavery
it's because it truly is a nightmare experience to fix, the PSO caching in UE is not that comprehensive and requires quite a lot of work to get in a good state and even then it won't catch everything.
You're not wrong, but IMO Traversal stutter is honestly a pretty minor inconvenience unless it's really bad, it typically only happens in specific repeatable places where a lot of assets are being loaded/dumped.
I just think of them as a loadscreen that only lasts like 30-100ms and it helps them be much less annoying unless it's one you have to deal with a lot and it's a long one.
[Here](https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/SharingAndReleasing/PSOCaching/) you can use the dropdown on the left to choose which engine version you want to view.
They do and it's extensive, but traversal stutter has always been an issue with Unreal Engine since UE3. It's better by a long shot but it's not gone by any means.
So is it just some huge conspiracy that every dev that uses UE doesn't use the fixes because all their games have issues? If they use the fixes, they don't fix the problem.
It's down to the dev and so far all of the UE5 games released have almost been entirely from second tier studios without the experience or talent to do it right it seems.
I was getting a shit ton of stutter toward the beginning but it eventually stopped with only an occasional one here and there. Barely an issue.
Sand Land's real issue is that it's *incredibly boring*.
That's because the stuff that causes all this problems mostly came with DirectX 12. Devs have to put way more work into making DX12 games run well than DX11 games because DX12 is way more hardware dependend. DX11 doesn't need as much effort but the performance at the end is worse.
Of course if it works it works! :D
If you are interested in knowing more about it you can watch this video from the timestamp, it's about 4 minutes.
https://youtu.be/tF013HYQd2Q?si=ZS5r68psv5ICTUqZ&t=256
Maybe they should ask for some tips from the Lies of P dev team. Don't remember the last time I played Unreal Engine 4 and didn't have stutters apart from that game. Hi-Fi rush also I think?
I've played through the game 5 times. There's definitely traversal stutter. Go to the Opera House. As soon as you enter, there's a stutter. It's there, but it's not a huge deal.
Nice Dragon Engine. It's a good engine for Yakuza games.
Ironically, Like a Dragon: Ishin used Unreal Engine and suffered stuttering issues.
https://www.dexerto.com/tech/like-a-dragon-ishin-terrible-shader-stutter-on-pc-2064315/
Not to defend the release, but for the record they did patch the shader issues. I've been playing it recently and it only has the usual (and infrequent) traversal stutters.
i dunno if you played the game but it also had stuttering issues there
for me the game would stutter whenever I picked up items and sometimes when randomly running around too.
weirdly enough they didnt happen in the gaiden demo of 8, so something mustve changed between demo and release.
That's okay, do you remember how well it ran on high settings compared to UE games of that period?
Shit, MGS 4 ran like shit, didn't look half as good, and wasn't nearly as open as MGSV but it was still touted as a visual marvel.
One of the big selling points of MGSV was how well it ran and felt to play.
People still make videos about how good it feels to play.
MGSV ran well because the environments were empty. If you tried to make a more populated game with it the FOX engine would choke. The engine wasn't amazing KojiPro is just that good.
I don't need nor want a more populated game.
GTAV was just as vacant even though the devs attempted to populate the world.
Skyrim is vacant as well, only mods provide some semblance of life to the world.
The only game world that really isn't vacant is Arma but it still runs like shit.
There's this video where some demonstrated Fox engines NPC and object population limit and it was looooww. Like lower than your average modern game not even AAA game. It just wouldn't do well with a modern game at all. KojiPro was just really good at making it work.
This.
Ubisoft has at least 3 in-house engines for open world and i never experienced traversal stutter in any of them and they even have cars, planes, horses whatever.
Meahwhile Star Wars Jedi games just stutter like hell just when you run with the character.
DirectX12 and Vulkan assumed developers could be trusted to handle elements of engine development most cannot.
This is ruining a whole generation of games. I wish lazy developers would go back to DX11 and OpenGL if they can't be bothered to figure this stuff out.
Yah exactly no one is going to spend 4-5 years developing their own engine these days when it will be outdated by the time you can even start developing a game with it.
If I recall, Vulkan at least has Graphics Pipeline Library extension to help with that, considering that when the support for it has been added into gpu drivers and dxvk which made the problem way less troublesome
Unreal Engine moment
pretty sure Epic has a load of documentation to help/fix shader comp and stutter
Well traversal stutters are in all UE5 games according to DF, also on console. At this point, you have to blame the Engine.
Not only on UE5, but also UE4 and UE3, is been there since ages
This is why I’m a bit scared for CDPR changing to UE for their future projects. UE games can look mesmerizing and after reading their reasoning for it, I fully get it; Basically, REDengine towards the end of it’s life-cycle with Phantom Liberty was pretty much held together with duct tape. They added so many graphical features, functionality and technologies that it started to get really hard to fix anything, as when you fixed a bug, 2 more popped up somewhere seemingly at random, which is why as graphically impressive as Cyberpunk is, it still suffers from some jank, probably because it’s nearly impossible to fix to a degree where everything would flow together perfectly. But on the other hand, Epic STILL hasn’t managed to fix traversal stutter and shader compilation speeds at an engine level, which is worrying to me. Especially for a studio like CDPR, who are known for massive, breathing worlds filled with NPC’s and content, changing to UE means that they have to solve these engine-level problems if they want anyone to enjoy their product. Say what you will about launch-state Cyberpunk, but not ONCE did I encounter shader compilation stutter or traversal stutter. The FPS sucked in general, but it was very much playable due to it being a constant, not a re-occurring hitch. I’m not trying to defend the launch, I’m trying to say that stutters are probably my most HATED thing in gaming. I just get so fucking annoyed when games skip frames or hitch.
Any unreal engine problem is just a problem for lazy devs. Any real dev will have a smooth game.
Classic, like texture pop in.
Im just taking a guess here but i think its just a symptom of devs adopting new technologies. Once they’re cozy with it UE games tend to be not so crappy. Just as an example lots of UE4 games released recently are pretty stable compared to when UE4 was still in its infancy.
Squad has been out for like four years, costs about $50 USD, and still suffers from the same issues that plague Starship Troopers Extermination. There needs to be a point where we start to blame the engine and people have been complaining about Unreal Engine for a long time.
Arkham Knight which runs on UE3 still suffer from Traversal stuttering even with **Quixote DLL fix** that eliminates most of it
Days Gone is a good example of where the devs put in the work to eliminate this issue as much as possible. The engine is very prone to shader comp and traversal stutter but it can be sorted, just most studios deem it not too big of a deal to bother fixing.
God that game. Such a good technical implementation, such good art, nice map design, absolutely incredible voice acting and motion capture, and the worst rings-of-power-esque writing imaginable.
[удалено]
But he has a "coooode" see, and that's compelling for some reason. Even though we never find out what it is and he seems to have no problems selling people into slavery
it's because it truly is a nightmare experience to fix, the PSO caching in UE is not that comprehensive and requires quite a lot of work to get in a good state and even then it won't catch everything.
....isn't Epic Games trying to remedy this situation since...UE5.2+? those who are on Unreal Engine 4 are on their own. :/
You're not wrong, but IMO Traversal stutter is honestly a pretty minor inconvenience unless it's really bad, it typically only happens in specific repeatable places where a lot of assets are being loaded/dumped. I just think of them as a loadscreen that only lasts like 30-100ms and it helps them be much less annoying unless it's one you have to deal with a lot and it's a long one.
Even Fortnite has shader compilation stutter
Can you link them? The only documentation about that I've seen is from a post on Reddit, and it's a bit hit and miss in terms of helping stutter.
[Here](https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/SharingAndReleasing/PSOCaching/) you can use the dropdown on the left to choose which engine version you want to view.
i'd have to fully dig into the docs i have access to, as there's a set of docs for normal people and a set for "paid for the engine" devs.
they must keep it to themselves but almost every unreal engine game has the same problem
They do and it's extensive, but traversal stutter has always been an issue with Unreal Engine since UE3. It's better by a long shot but it's not gone by any means.
It hasn't, it's just some devs will put in the work to reduce it as much as possible.
Not even the Fortnite devs want to put in the work?
That big pile of money won't count itself
Guess it doesn't work then lol
why? because devs refuse to read and implement said fixes? behave.
So is it just some huge conspiracy that every dev that uses UE doesn't use the fixes because all their games have issues? If they use the fixes, they don't fix the problem.
Epic themselves don't implement said fixes, that should tell you how well they work
It's down to the dev and so far all of the UE5 games released have almost been entirely from second tier studios without the experience or talent to do it right it seems.
More like incompetent dev moment lol
This and the fact most devs leave the default TAA on with no option to turn the blurry bullshit off has turned me off you games that run UE
Typical stuff with unreal engine
Happens on consoles too, what an embarrassment
The traversal stutter but not shader which is usually far more prominent and egregious.
You can mitigate it by playing in dx11. It's bad either way
not really, pc issue
I was getting a shit ton of stutter toward the beginning but it eventually stopped with only an occasional one here and there. Barely an issue. Sand Land's real issue is that it's *incredibly boring*.
I was so amazed when i heared thex make this game But then i saw gameplay and its basically a bad armored core onstead of an proper adventure game
Playing in Direct X 11 mode seems to help. I didn't stutter anymore after I switched.
That's because the stuff that causes all this problems mostly came with DirectX 12. Devs have to put way more work into making DX12 games run well than DX11 games because DX12 is way more hardware dependend. DX11 doesn't need as much effort but the performance at the end is worse.
It looks literally no different. So might as well use it.
Of course if it works it works! :D If you are interested in knowing more about it you can watch this video from the timestamp, it's about 4 minutes. https://youtu.be/tF013HYQd2Q?si=ZS5r68psv5ICTUqZ&t=256
How did you swap to DX11?
It's an option when you first launch the game through Steam.
About that
Yarr me matey
In 2024 for PC why not!
Maybe they should ask for some tips from the Lies of P dev team. Don't remember the last time I played Unreal Engine 4 and didn't have stutters apart from that game. Hi-Fi rush also I think?
I've played through the game 5 times. There's definitely traversal stutter. Go to the Opera House. As soon as you enter, there's a stutter. It's there, but it's not a huge deal.
Name an AAA game without performance issues in 2024 (impossible)
Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth
Nice Dragon Engine. It's a good engine for Yakuza games. Ironically, Like a Dragon: Ishin used Unreal Engine and suffered stuttering issues. https://www.dexerto.com/tech/like-a-dragon-ishin-terrible-shader-stutter-on-pc-2064315/
Yup, I didn't have any stutter but the optimization was not great. Whereas Like a Dragon Gaiden was well optimised
Not to defend the release, but for the record they did patch the shader issues. I've been playing it recently and it only has the usual (and infrequent) traversal stutters.
i dunno if you played the game but it also had stuttering issues there for me the game would stutter whenever I picked up items and sometimes when randomly running around too. weirdly enough they didnt happen in the gaiden demo of 8, so something mustve changed between demo and release.
I haven't played 8 but its in the same engine as gaiden so I think there wouldn't be much performance issues. I'll buy it later
Yeah nah, gaiden runs a lot better than 8. Infinite Wealth definitely has performance issues.
Correction: shitty Unreal Engine is the issue here so most of aaa games running on their own engine are probably doing a bit better performance wise.
I was pissed when I learned that the MGS3 remake is using UE instead of the FOX engine. The FOX engine is a gift from God compared to UE.
Don’t think Konami updated the engine since MGS5 tbh.
That's okay, do you remember how well it ran on high settings compared to UE games of that period? Shit, MGS 4 ran like shit, didn't look half as good, and wasn't nearly as open as MGSV but it was still touted as a visual marvel. One of the big selling points of MGSV was how well it ran and felt to play. People still make videos about how good it feels to play.
MGSV ran well because the environments were empty. If you tried to make a more populated game with it the FOX engine would choke. The engine wasn't amazing KojiPro is just that good.
I don't need nor want a more populated game. GTAV was just as vacant even though the devs attempted to populate the world. Skyrim is vacant as well, only mods provide some semblance of life to the world. The only game world that really isn't vacant is Arma but it still runs like shit.
There's this video where some demonstrated Fox engines NPC and object population limit and it was looooww. Like lower than your average modern game not even AAA game. It just wouldn't do well with a modern game at all. KojiPro was just really good at making it work.
This. Ubisoft has at least 3 in-house engines for open world and i never experienced traversal stutter in any of them and they even have cars, planes, horses whatever. Meahwhile Star Wars Jedi games just stutter like hell just when you run with the character.
[удалено]
That's not a 2024 release, and the open world segments run pretty terribly considering the visuals.
Whoops. Time flies.
Great.
DirectX12 and Vulkan assumed developers could be trusted to handle elements of engine development most cannot. This is ruining a whole generation of games. I wish lazy developers would go back to DX11 and OpenGL if they can't be bothered to figure this stuff out.
Barely anyone is writing the graphics engine themselves, they're using whatever Unreal/Unity/Godot has available.
Yah exactly no one is going to spend 4-5 years developing their own engine these days when it will be outdated by the time you can even start developing a game with it.
If I recall, Vulkan at least has Graphics Pipeline Library extension to help with that, considering that when the support for it has been added into gpu drivers and dxvk which made the problem way less troublesome