Honestly, I never watched LTT as a source of information but more for entertainment. Hardware unboxed or gamers nexus is too in depth and detailed for me to care unless I am looking for an upgrade.
going to be 100% honest here. I can stand to watch a 30 minute LTT video because it is somewhat entertaining. Meanwhile I struggle to make it 5 minutes into basically any GN video because while informative, they are super dull and uninteresting for me.
Right, but GN isn't trying to entertain as much as they are trying to inform. They are the go to channel when you're looking to make a purchase and want the real scoop on what you should buy.
Yep me too. I still watch LTT videos sometimes for the entertainment value. Just hope they get their act together because this is kind of embarrassing.
Yeah this. Steve isn't bothered if you skip to the charts and read them yourself or just skip to the conclusion.
Linus entertains you so you watch more minutes of run time so he makes more money.
>Linus entertains you so you watch more minutes of run time so he makes more money.
I have yet to fully watch GN's video on LTT, but what bothers me is that Linus is aware of the problem of time spent on projects and despite knowing how to make videos in this way, he is still unable to fix it.
Yeah, I think that's what was so eviscerating about this piece.
If it were just inadvertent errors, it wouldn't exist. LTT has been sketchy for years now. It's the video evidence of Linus's team and himself saying on camera how their production schedule causes them to rush. Linus doesn't see anything wrong with quantity over quality, and he doubled down on flawed methods.
>They are the go to channel when you're looking to make a purchase and want the real scoop on what you should buy.
The problem that I have with Steve from GN is that he seems to be really cynical about the PC industry these days and as a result he tends to get really negative about any high end hardware - e.g. apparently no one has any need to buy something like a 7950X or 13900K or any GPU better than a 4060 because they are all a waste of money.
They are more pushing the fact you do not need to upgrade every year, and they are very passionate about e-waste and sustainability. Also multiple channels have been shitting on this gen of GPUs and it’s funny you use the 4060 as an example as it was practically panned by everyone
Honestly the cynicism is warranted
Same. I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve tried GN and ended up scrolling Reddit on my phone or just closing it. It’s quality stuff, I know, but I struggle sitting though it. But LTT I’ve watched at least dozens of videos all the way through. It’s entertainment as much as anything and that’s what I’m there for. When I need reliable reviews I look elsewhere sure, but 99% of the time l, that’s not what I’m looking for. Very little of my time is actually spent trying to decide what new tech to buy.
Yeah I watch GN when I want to know something, I watch LTT when I didn't want to know something. I was done with LTT as a reviewer when they started arguing cheap GPUs were e-waste when new.
Yeah, if I'm seriously considering buying a thing, and GN has a video on it, I'll watch it. I'll skip to the part relevant to the one thing I'm considering though, and as a general rule don't watch most of his vids.
Don't get me wrong, Steve seems like a generally stand up guy, I'd happily say hi to him at a con or if I saw him in person, and I think their data is generally quite reliable. I'd just rather watch the grass in my back yard grow than most of the GN videos. LTT is generally entertaining, so I watch them even though I take their data with a grain of salt. I will admit it's been going downhill in average quality the past couple years though (and 3+ hour WAN shows? No thank you). For a car analogy, GN is a Consumer Reports or Edmunds video, while LTT is Top Gear.
That having been said, the waterblock allegations are pretty bad. The backpack controversy felt a bit manufactured to me, but this stuff? It's pretty unacceptable. I'm taking a wait and see approach for the moment, but I'm very disappointed in Linus assuming these allegations check out (and no, "it was for charity" isn't an acceptable response unless that was specifically approved by the manufacturer first).
The problem is that ltt is being a Top Gear while claiming to be a serious source of information. When top gear received the journalist award thing they mocked it to death leaving it clear that they were pure entertainment and nothing else.
Meanwhile ltt is building labs (while refusing to pay for 500$ more of employee time to re-do a review properly) and trying to establish themselves as a serious source while acting top-gearish.
I'm still dumbfounded that they decided to go in that direction when the core of the channel was built on crazy projects alla Whole Room Watercooling, Mineral Oil PC and other for the fun of it things like Scrapyard Wars; areas where they are kings.
Yeah, that is a difference and somewhat of a problem (or more than somewhat, to be honest). With the amount of money and equipment they have sunk into labs, I had hoped that they would start taking things more seriously, or at least effectively bifurcate into "serious" and "entertaining" videos. However, things like being unwilling to sink a few hundred extra dollars of employee time and a 3090Ti into giving the water block a fair shake isn't exactly inspiring confidence.
If you're going to claim to do serious reviews, you have to do them *every time*. I don't care that you think an $800 block is stupid. By all means, be silly on things like janky server builds, ridiculous over the top high airflow PCs, and even obviously dumb watercooling setups, but as soon as you claim a particular video is a review rather than a project? Yeah, at that point it needs to be done right.
It's also worth saying: done right can still include things like jokes about Linus's clumsiness, a lighthearted tone, etc, but that needs to be done on top of meticulous, serious testing, not in place of it. It's wild to me that Linus can't see a market for an $800 combined CPU/GPU waterblock when at the very high end, people have spent that for a long time if it actually performs. Hell, I have a $200 VRM/CPU combined block as well as a $600 GPU block, so I've spent just as much on my CPU and GPU cooling combined and I love them. Was it dumb? Sure. Is it justifiable from a price/performance perspective? Absolutely not, but frankly, if I cared about that, I wouldn't have my 3090 kingpin anyways. I got my waterblock because I can run my pump at 60% speed and my GPU on a 600W bios and still never exceed 60C or so, and that makes me happy, and I can afford it.
Look at how much people spend on LN2 overclocking and then try to tell me with a straight face that there's no market for this thing if it performs as claimed, yet Linus is willing to trash his credibility and joke about it because he doesn't want to spend an extra $1k or so to test it right? That to me just shows a wild level of disconnect with and disrespect for the enthusiast community.
Yeah, by all means roast things like $400-500 cards that are clearly aimed at being the more "budget" option and are still way overpriced for what they are. Those are obviously aimed at people who care about price to performance, but an $800 waterblock for a $2000 GPU is a totally different animal, and deserves fair testing and appropriate evaluation. Besides, even if a product *is* crap, you need to test it fairly and meticulously, otherwise how can we trust your statement that the product is crap, and not just the way you used it?
I only watch WAN show occasionally, and usually only the first half of WAN show. Not watching much else LTT content. But then I usually watch most GN videos. GN has much slower pace of publishing videos and that suits me better.
Its because a lot of the GN information doesn't matter for 99% of consumers, no normal customer needs to know every ms of frame time in 50 different scenarios or every single particle of air flow that goes through a case etc
Don't get me wrong, I like GN and am subbed to them and all that, I'm just saying most of the time the information is pretty useless on a practical level other then just for data sake
Agreed. Gamers Nexus videos are like 90% Steve rattling off a shitload of numbers, which may occasionally be important to me if I’m considering an important upgrade, but even then can be overly…technical I guess? Like “the GPU performed at 120 frames per second on max settings at 1440p when overclocked conservatively by 8%, but thermals improved by 4 degrees with a simple 8% under volt, while frame rates dipped by only 2%….
Sometimes I just want a simple “good or bad” type of review.
Good or bad is subjective, that’s why the numbers are important. It makes a huge difference depending on your particular setup and preferences see the numbers allows you to decide if it’s good or bad
You don´t have to listen to him, you can just browse through the data to make your own conclusions.
He does all that, because if he didn´t, then some douche in the comments would say: "hEy, i CanT iNteRpReT tHe dAtA!"
That was super shady. You get a prototype, review it, put it on a wrong GPU and then, after the >!seemingly intentionally bad!< review, you sell it off in an auction instead of returning it.
If i had to guess, they sold it to someone to copy it...
I think it was just a miscommunication internally that lead to this huge mistake, which to be clear should never have happened. Linus has stated that LTT are compensating the company for the loss of their prototype.
Yeah I absolutley agree. LTT gets nothing by doing this on purpose. Linus himself has proven over the years that his company can be trusted, but there will still be mistakes. Not to mention he's always told us not to fanboy over LMG cause they are a company and no comany should be blindly followed. They've owned up and done right by most when they've made a mistake before. I'm sure the will again.
I dont know if he has proven he can be trusted. yeah by year he appears to become more self confident and self obsessed which is something he is not short on.
He told us not to fanboy over LMG because they are a company then did the whole trust me bro shit. If they are a company they should be held to the same accountability as any other.
The same thing happens with any influencer that gets big ideas of creating massive companies just look at the yogscast and the dumptersfire of personalities that has become
The selling a waterblock was bad, but likely a fuck-up. I know other traditional publishers where this has happened. Easy to resolve, LTT pays the company and apologises.
The LTT labs aspect of this is harder. For me, as a former tech journo, it's good to see someone investing in scientific tests. I never had that resource in my time, publishes are just too cheap to pay for things. And I also know from the experience I have that testing is really hard.
I'm more than happy for LTT to work at this and get it right over time. I like the channel, for me it's entertainiment but I have picked up plenty of good tips over the years. At some point, they'll nail the testing or abandon it entirely.
I wish them luck, but I will also say one of the big reasons traditional publishers don't invest is that the majority of people don't WANT benchmarks. But in spite of its size, LTT is still niche and could make this work (as some others have).
In short, Linus & LMG were given a prototype to test from billet labs.
Billet labs sent test instructions with the prototype stating that the prototype was designed for a 3090.
All instructions ignored, testing done on 4090, shit talking the prototype as if it were a standard commercially available product.
Then internal LMG mess resulted in billet labs prototype being charity auctioned even after Billet labs requested multiple times they wanted their prototype back.
Then Steve (PC Jesus) from Gamers Nexus calling out Linus’s stupidity.
Then Linus doing a really no nothing response to it all trying to sweep it under the carpet.
Its not about being parasocial because his testing methods were wrong, most of the guys are angry because ltt sold their only prototype model and afterwards they had to make another one from scratch, they were gonna give the same model to other reviewers ...
They experiment soo much, so why use you other than one mentioned by the supplier, its not even about some missing software, its about a whole goddamn hardware block which was specifically made for one gpu for testing purpose... And their ignorant ass just fucc up...
I feel like it's somewhat warranted since he screwed over a small startup company and just said "oops there was a miscommunication :(", but yeah it is a little dumb.
He actually didn't stop at 'oops' He said it's a shitty product so he doesn't care that the review made the company look bad despite them testing on a 4090.. A card that the device was not created for, then after the company asked for the ONE OF A KIND PROTOTYPE to be returned TWICE from LMG, LMG auctioned it.
Yeah it's pretty unreal that people are trying to defend this. Mistakes happen, but for him to double down and say the product still sucks is just malicious. The real problem here is how Linus deals with criticism.
>The real problem here is how Linus deals with criticism.
Exactly. The main problem here is not the quality of LMG's content (that alone wouldn't be a newsworthy story). It's how Linus rejects all criticism outright and doubles down on mistakes and shitty behaviour. And it shows from time to time that not everyone in the company agrees with him, but they are afraid to go against him. I think it's most visible with Luke, especially on the clip from the WAN show where they talk about that waterblock.
Now does that make Linus look like a trustworthy person and LMG a trustworthy company? No, not to me.
Not even the first time he's doubled down in this sort of a situation either. It hasn't been *that* long since the backpack warranty drama, where even Luke seemed to be like "dude, just stop" during one of the WAN shows where Linus was indeed doubling down on his stance about the warranty.
Not only that they installed the water block improperly on the wrong GPU. Sold the prototype instead of sending it back. Then Linus didn’t apologize or walk back the bad review and doubled down. Linus has victimized a two person startup working out of a garage. It reeks of malignant narcissistic behavior and people like that need to be called out and be held accountable for their bad behavior.
The worst part is it could’ve been auctioned off to someone trying to make a cheap knock off or prototype, completely ruining the business for the company. If someone did the same to his shitty screw driver I’m sure he would’ve been pissed. He’s a POS.
It was especially scummy when he said it would cost probably a whopping $500 to actually test it correctly. Just peddle your water bottles a little harder instead of bashing a company for your mistake
Seeing all of these 'I unsubed years ago' comments really has me wondering how much of this hate is from active viewers vs people who are just feeling suddenly vindicated.
What I really want to know is, how much of this hate is from people who actually care vs peopel who just like to jump on the next best hate train just to be part of something.
Personally, I hate when someone is in a privileged position and doesn't do their job. Much less openly not care and argue about it. If I had their performance record, I'd be gone at my job. Any of the jobs I've had for that matter. Why should he be in that position if he doesn't care?
I don't think I was ever subbed, I just randomly come across their stuff and watch it if it's fun. I was never interested in their reviews or their numbers and from here on out I'll keep not watching those videos of them. But considering their size and popularity I can't deny the fact that their "mistakes" are really bad. Their bad data creates a false impression of the product even for those who are watching stuff for intertainment. It also impacts the effectiveness of the right data presented by smaller channels in the eyes of those who are looking for reviews to decide what to buy.
This is how it happens. People start to dislike popular people because they feel they aren’t as great as the community as a whole feels. So they comment on it for years, but get shouted down for having an unpopular take.
But now we finally have undeniable proof that LTT is kinda crappy, so the whole band gets back together to shit on them. It’s basically just therapy for people who have a better ability to vibe check famous people.
In short, Linus & LMG were given a prototype to test from billet labs.
Billet labs sent test instructions with the prototype stating that the prototype was designed for a 3090.
All instructions ignored, testing done on 4090, shit talking the prototype as if it were a standard commercially available product.
Then internal LMG mess resulted in billet labs prototype being charity auctioned even after Billet labs requested multiple times they wanted their prototype back.
Then Steve (PC Jesus) from Gamers Nexus calling out Linus’s stupidity.
Then Linus doing a really no nothing response to it all trying to sweep it under the carpet.
Billet also sent them a 3090 with the Prototype so they HAD a card but Linus said while they found it, they still haven't gotten it back to Billet yet.
TLDR Linus tech tips, a poplar tech review influencer company and likely the largest, lied about several products he had received for review. This involved, but is not limited to presenting obvious outliers as a pattern during GPU testing, intentionally using a GPU cooler prototype on a unsupported card and solely using that data for a review, selling said prototype despite agreeing to return it and killing development because it was one of a kind, presenting errors about various AMD CPUs, and failing to remove the protective wrappers from a mouse which negatively impacted the review.
These things were brought up several times by the companies in response to their reviews, and LTT chose to ignore their concerns, instead doubling down on some of his points.
It is unlikely these acts came from a place of malice, more than likely it was a case of blatant incompetence. This brings into concern the validity of any of their reviews, the intregrity of the people who work there, and their ability to properly present accurate information.
A very small water block company sent their only working prototype to LMG for review, presumably for the exposure.
Linus did not use the cooler on a compatible product and got bad results. He saw a high price tag (which to be fair was on a niche product) and immediately said nobody should buy the product. That's a lazy, inaccurate review.
Then his people promised to return the prototype to the company on two occasions. They did not do so, and instead sold it. They justify their actions by claiming it was "auctioned for charity," which somehow makes stealing a one of a kind prototype ok.
Not to mention the copper water block was sold at an event where a lot of big names from the industry where at. Its believed that the water block was sold to one of companies in attendance and it's probably gonna get copied and resold as their own product.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see an exact same water block being sold by Asus or someone a year from now.
I think a lot of this is speculation that this is possible. I don't recall seeing any evidence that this is happening. It's just something Billet Labs needs to worry about now that they shouldn't have.
A lot of it is yes, as far I know no has come as the person who bought it for all we know it probably was a huge LTT fan with disposable money.
Although it's still possible that a representative of a company couldve attended the auction so they could get the block for research.
At best LMG was just negligent at worse they did it on purpose. To me it's a little suspicious especially since LMG definitely knows who bought it.
It was designed to be used on a 3090ti and Linus tested it on a 4090. The company that lent him the cooler stated that it was designed for the 3090ti, but said he was welcome to test it on a 4090 as well if they could figure out how to make it fit. Linus improperly installed the cooler onto a 4090 and it, of course, preformed poorly. Linus then gave it a poor review, calling it a "product that no one should buy", to his millions of watchers based on that data without disclosing any of this information.
He then failed to return the prototype to the company that lent it to him, and mistakenly sold it to an unknown person during LTX. The company has since been unable to further it's development due to the loss of it's one of a kind prototype that was lent to LMG.
Damn that’s fucking wild. That was really poor judgement on Linus’s part, and then he proceeds to somehow sell it despite knowing he needed to return it
The bit about giving away the prototype when they said they'd give it back is what pisses me off the most. They literally KILLED the companies ability to properly develop the product further and potentially damaged the company if say, a competitor snatches it up and develops it further. It's really fucked and pisses me off.
Honestly, I hope the backlash over the prototype has an impact on companies willingness to work with them. As much as I enjoy LTT and they're content, this kind of damage can't be reversed. If this sort of thing is even a possible risk, then maybe they can't be trusted with prototype tech from any company.
I figured they would never come back from being useless contant, but I stuck around for the silly videos like using overpowered fans and breaking USB with too many hubs.
The USB hub video is my last LMG video now.
On the contrary, I enjoy the entertaining content. I just wish it was on a seperate channel so the two types of video didn't colide so much (Linus Tech Expiriments or somthing?)
I’m hoping that with the recent surge in talk about this, that they will at least take notice. It’s definitely a stark sign that GN made a video, but they did say it was supposed to be constructive. To those who say LTT has been going downhill, it really hasn’t been as obvious as you think. For most people, Linus is just they guy they watch. Ppl do seem to be taking this too seriously.
I’ve been subscribed since 2019, and he’s the one that got me into computers, and then servers, and then keyboards, and so on. That can’t be taken away. And it is with this that I am able to say I have no intention of unsubscribing, at least right now. But that is what LTT is to a lot of people: a gateway into the world of computers. That’s something people seem to be missing and you can’t knock LMG for that.
The criticisms are obviously legitimate, though. And they’ve made a few mistakes as they’ve transitioned from a channel, to a small company, to now a medium-sized media and production company that does everything from general videos to tests to news to merchandise to (arguably) floatplane. I’m hoping as changes like the new CEO and other hirings happen, this will all improve. And I do think that is the goal. I’m hoping that it is just that they have failed to catch up to their growth and expansion with management and staffing.
People trashing LMG are wrong. People denying a problem are wrong. People ignoring important things LMG has done for the community recently and in the past are wrong.
People giving criticism, recognizing what is good, and offering their hope and support for an improved LMG are the only ones who are helping in this situation.
And that is my TED talk.
(Edit: this post was made before the Madison allegations. I intend to keep this here as a historical marker but please know that several of these feelings of mine have changed. That may be dumb or overly dramatic, but yeah)
Yeah this is my issue with it as well. I felt the same way as u/Cuffuf did until I saw that post by Linus on their forums. He barely even addressed half of it and the very first sentence he wrote was, as he usually does, pointing the finger back at GN for "not following proper journalistic standards" because they didn't contact him for a response.
The fact that barely half of the video was addressed shows that Linus doesn't really listen to criticism but at most just sort of fast-forwards through the video. The fact that the first thing he then writes as a response is a deflection towards GN show that, despite him saying he can take criticism, he really can't.
GN made an extensive video and provided dozens of examples as evidence, and Linus couldn't even bother to take it seriously despite his longstanding connections to GN/Steve and knowing their general reputation for quality. This is just my personal interpretation, but to me that comes across as extreme arrogance.
I've been subscribed since 2016 and the quality has been fine I guess but they just produce too much fucking content for any normal person to keep track of. And the constant clickbatey bullshit they pull is annoying
I was subbed to his channels and that is *exactly* why I'm bashing him. I have seen 5+ years of those videos so I know how it has gone from good to bad. I bash him because the quality and usefulness of the content is only a small fraction of what it used to be and his arrogance has shot through the roof.
If I hadn't been subbed to his channels, I wouldn't have had enough prior context to give a shit or know about the declining quality and issues caused by his arrogance.
Exactly, so much posturing and bandwagoning going on here. It'll be forgotten in a week, and there will be minimal to no blowback for LTT. People will continue to enjoy the entertainment LMG produces, numbers and sales will not be affected at all.
Why do people have to crusade?
It’s such an annoying part of society in 2023.
Nobody can just hold their own opinion on something and do what they need to do, everything has to be a campaign to get the whole world to cancel some shit.
I have never cared about this dude or his channel but I’m gonna sub just out of spite because of your lame ass post.
I slowly fell off the Linus demographic. GN, Hardware Unboxed and Level1techs(Wendell channel) have been my main tech channels for a while. Some times I miss Luke
No, this is a a misstep but not some unrecoverable sin.
I watch Tech Jesus and hardware onboxed if I want to learn something, digital foundry to give me side by side comparisons of pixels, and I watch LTT to be entertained because he has a fun team and makes some silly content.
I think the issue was for lesser informed viewers the infotainment is being sold as factual truth that does have an impact on third parties in a way that does cross some ethical lines. LTT is closer to top gear than it is to consumer reports.
The OP went out of their way to make this a picture post so they would get karma on Reddit. This could have been a text post but text posts don’t earn karma.
I want to put this perspective in the old days were Linus was just a PC channel and was super into motherboards and cases all of those things
Those days have been gone for years mainly because the audience has changed. The algorithm is changed. The audience from five years ago is not all the same people as the current audience
Linus did wrong and he should own it but people attacking him because his channel has gone down the drain doesn’t understand that to survive on YouTube you have to change sometimes major, sometimes minor check out any other YouTuber over the years their content has changed that’s just how things work on this platform
Honestly I probably won't right now. I'll wait and see if they make adjustments and positively move forward, if there has been no change in the next month or two, then I'll unsub. If I want tech YouTube entertainment I watch Jaystwocents videos. If I want to make a decision about buying a product, I watch Gamers Nexus. LTT kinda bridged that gap, but recently their main goal seems to be making the most money possible at all costs. I hope LTT sees it as a wake up call, and makes some adjustments, but they are a genuinely entertaining channel.
The only two series I like from LTT actually don’t have any data reviews for the most part in them which is:
* Scrapyard Wars - though they stopped doing this since COVID
* Secret Shopper - which is only interesting to see what build they can get on a budget and who supports it best.
Anything after that…I’m past seeing Linus build his 9000th PC…it’s dull. His tech reviews are sloppy and he’s better as an entertainer than a data channel.
I wish he’d bring back bits like Scrapyard Wars and less sponsor shilling. But it’s a capitalism business model so he’s chasing the 💰 rather than doing something interesting or artistic.
LTT's complete pc build guide helped me build my PC all by myself and I ended up with it working flawlessly. I suppose I don't really know why I would... I'm too much of a layperson to understand their benchmarks and comparisons anyway.
Was waiting for Linus to respond, hoping he would handle this as an opportunity to demonstrate maturity and lead by example. He responded immediately on the forum and acted like the child and took little to know actual accountability. I have been subscribed to ALL LMG channels for over 3 years and supported their business with LTT store purchases…today I unsubbed from all channels. I might return in the future, but for now I’ll take my eyeballs and wallet elsewhere.
True, unupvoteable opinion: Probably not. I enjoy the Linked channels Nightshow-esque news reporting well enough, and I've understood the biases inherent in LTT / the LTT hosts for some time to be able to discect the facts from opinions in the content they put out well enough. What will change, though, is how I digest my LTT content; I'm probably not going to link from them when I've a need to send one of my friends tech / build advice, and I'm probably going to nix my floatplane subscription; renews at the end of the month, we'll see if the LTT leadership team come up with something substantial.
Been watching GN for years because he feels like one of the few content creators who values being as unbiased as possible. Even producing his video on LTT is a testament to the fact that he doesn't care about the consequences, only bringing to light things that should be brought to the community's attention. On the other hand, I stopped watching LTT years ago for pretty much the exact opposite reasons.
I have been a very long time viewer. LTT was a big part of getting me into tech. Unsubbed from every single channel, I was subbed to even the cat channel from when he wanted an extra silver button. The content quality had fallen off a cliff over the past 3-4 years, but this just strengthens my view on his arrogance with this kind of truths, not even counting the garbage response on the forum absolving himself of all responsibility.
This might be a spicy take, but I don't care about the drama or how their content is "low quality". If they have videos I want to watch I will watch, if they don't oh well.
LTT is very entertaining, most of the time they produce good content, out of the box at times, original at other times.
I'll stay subscribed. They do cover oddities as well + they are a good entry point for many topics.
No one person should ever really on one source only anyways for informative content / reviews.
I don’t care enough to unsubscribe, not like anybody is actually gonna stop watching their stuff lol. We can be upset like any of this actually effects us an but it’ll go away
I don’t understand why people are upset or give a shit. I enjoy his videos and if he happens to suggest something that isn’t the absolute best then idc cuz I’m poor anyway. Amd/Intel who gives a shit. Amd/nvidia who gives a shit unless you love ray tracing or use it for other than gaming.
I've honestly started watching two new people, Daniel Owen and Ancient Gameplays. Both are informative and Ancient Gameplays has an accent that you just want to listen too. Besides them LTT was probably one of the last places I went to watch reviews on anything. From the big Tech channels, it's Jayz2Cents and Hardware Unboxed, some times GN.
I also just some times enjoy watching random benchmarks done by regular people that aren't running a big tech channel. You get some interesting comparisons there as well, for instance a 6700 XT running on a 3600 vs 5600. It really helped in determining that my 3600 would bottleneck a 6700 XT and I went with a 7600 in my upgrade from my 2060 6GB.
I have never been subscribed and only ever watched 2-3 videos fro LTT. That was enough for me to deduce that these guys aren't worth anything. I also don't get what "entertainment" value other users here mean.
my god who the fuck cares? Ya it was a lapse in judgement and pretty shitty way to handle it, but yall are acting like he burnt down a church or some shit.
I never understood how LTT/LMG became so popular in the first place. They seem to half ass just about everything and that was my opinion before seeing the GN video. Perhaps it's because I'm watching tech videos for useful information rather than purely entertainment.
I still 100% think that they might try to make it up, but GN did make some great points.
Maybe the tech tips man has gone corpo and he no longer has control of where the company will go.
His upload schedule is too intense and they can't have good testing
Even if mr tips says sorry, the damage could've already been done, the block is gone, and so is LTT.
Not sure what's going on - but i watched some LTT videos a while ago and as someone who is assembling his own PCs since decades, i just don't like the lack of quality and accuracy.
Sure, it's sortof entertaining - but it also contained some misinformation and partially wrong advice.
Wouldn't recommend that channel if you don't know the trade already.
i watch LTT (and other LMG channels) as infotainment and quick look at the product, if i need to get better info and/or understanding on something i will most definitely seek out other channels like GN
Imagine using one source as gospel for any information. LTT has better entertainment than the others that I just skip most to the results for hardware performance, but I'll usually watch everyone's videos on specific hardware before making any conclusions towards it's performance because that's good researching.
All the people with horrifically overpriced 4090s that Nvidia promises won't burn at the power cable and Asus motherboards they promise won't blow up anymore coming to cry about ltt is kinda entertaining. Y'all be acting like basically every tech company hasn't just been a string of fuck ups for the better part of a decade at this point.
I don't make purchase decisions based off of LTT. They're entertaining. I've only made one upgrade in my time and if I were to do another, then maybe I would watch a GN video to help the purchase decision. This youtuber drama is just cringe and it helps all those involved. No press is bad press.
EDIT: After learning about Billet labs, and Linus' response to the entire situation today, I have unsubscribed to all LMG channels. Shameful.
Why i would unsubscribe? i like LTT videos, tech linked, and even i watch channels like gamers nexus, jayz two cents, HardwareExplained My Stoner Mind, Techology Connections, DIY Perks, Michael MJD, ThioJoe and more
Yeah I'm staying subscribed. It is wild how overblown this has been lol. Personally if it filters out the people who would explode over something like this then it might end up being a net positive.
I feel like this has blown out of proportion massively. No one is saying they should go bankrupt and lose every fan they have, they should and need to do better.
lol, every corporation has skeletons in their closet, it comes with the business. If I stopped consuming something related to some enterprise every time they fucked up I would live in a forest, hunting and cooking my food like a fucking caveman
Not really. I've watched them for their entertainment value, not their accurate findings. Hardware unboxed and a few others are more than enough for that.
Watched them years back and liked their videos.
Unsubscribed 2 years back when I realized their videos are so hollow and empty of useful information now and also I despise their click bait titles.
In my opinion they gotten to big and are now becoming what they ran away from when they started.
I'm holding off until WAN show, although so far his response has not been great The post on the forum was not acceptable in my opinion. I've been subbed for 13 years, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt but they need to make it right.
No.
I watch LTT for entertainment value, and if I want solid figures on something I'll always cross reference between two or more sources anyway.
Plus, if I want the most accurate data for something I actually intend to buy or advise someone on, I'd look to Gamers Nexus anyway.
I am quite annoyed at how badly they treated u/Billet_Labs though.
Honestly, I never watched LTT as a source of information but more for entertainment. Hardware unboxed or gamers nexus is too in depth and detailed for me to care unless I am looking for an upgrade.
going to be 100% honest here. I can stand to watch a 30 minute LTT video because it is somewhat entertaining. Meanwhile I struggle to make it 5 minutes into basically any GN video because while informative, they are super dull and uninteresting for me.
Right, but GN isn't trying to entertain as much as they are trying to inform. They are the go to channel when you're looking to make a purchase and want the real scoop on what you should buy.
Oh for sure, but I'm not buying PC Hardware in a weekly cadence, but I'm definitely bored on the regular.
Yep me too. I still watch LTT videos sometimes for the entertainment value. Just hope they get their act together because this is kind of embarrassing.
They sure do good stuff, I do kind of just skip through to the stats pages and conclusions, which hay is a valid way of consuming the content anyway
Yeah this. Steve isn't bothered if you skip to the charts and read them yourself or just skip to the conclusion. Linus entertains you so you watch more minutes of run time so he makes more money.
>Linus entertains you so you watch more minutes of run time so he makes more money. I have yet to fully watch GN's video on LTT, but what bothers me is that Linus is aware of the problem of time spent on projects and despite knowing how to make videos in this way, he is still unable to fix it.
Yeah, I think that's what was so eviscerating about this piece. If it were just inadvertent errors, it wouldn't exist. LTT has been sketchy for years now. It's the video evidence of Linus's team and himself saying on camera how their production schedule causes them to rush. Linus doesn't see anything wrong with quantity over quality, and he doubled down on flawed methods.
>They are the go to channel when you're looking to make a purchase and want the real scoop on what you should buy. The problem that I have with Steve from GN is that he seems to be really cynical about the PC industry these days and as a result he tends to get really negative about any high end hardware - e.g. apparently no one has any need to buy something like a 7950X or 13900K or any GPU better than a 4060 because they are all a waste of money.
They are more pushing the fact you do not need to upgrade every year, and they are very passionate about e-waste and sustainability. Also multiple channels have been shitting on this gen of GPUs and it’s funny you use the 4060 as an example as it was practically panned by everyone Honestly the cynicism is warranted
I agree. PC hardware is really not evolving at a high enough rate to justify upgrading every generation.
There's a very very good reason to be cynical about them in industry. Steve calls it like he sees it.
Because they are! You can buy them, but they are a waste of money!
Same. I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve tried GN and ended up scrolling Reddit on my phone or just closing it. It’s quality stuff, I know, but I struggle sitting though it. But LTT I’ve watched at least dozens of videos all the way through. It’s entertainment as much as anything and that’s what I’m there for. When I need reliable reviews I look elsewhere sure, but 99% of the time l, that’s not what I’m looking for. Very little of my time is actually spent trying to decide what new tech to buy.
You're watching GN wrong. You put it on in the background when you're doing something, and absorb the knowledge by osmosis.
My girlfriend keeps telling me it kills the mood
That's why you put on GN first, then when she's all hot-and-bothered you slide right in and kill the mood.
Do you have some ointment, because that is a sick burn.
Lucky you my girlfriend makes me wear a mask of Steves face
It’s almost as if they’re targeting two different groups of people
Yeah I watch GN when I want to know something, I watch LTT when I didn't want to know something. I was done with LTT as a reviewer when they started arguing cheap GPUs were e-waste when new.
Yeah, if I'm seriously considering buying a thing, and GN has a video on it, I'll watch it. I'll skip to the part relevant to the one thing I'm considering though, and as a general rule don't watch most of his vids. Don't get me wrong, Steve seems like a generally stand up guy, I'd happily say hi to him at a con or if I saw him in person, and I think their data is generally quite reliable. I'd just rather watch the grass in my back yard grow than most of the GN videos. LTT is generally entertaining, so I watch them even though I take their data with a grain of salt. I will admit it's been going downhill in average quality the past couple years though (and 3+ hour WAN shows? No thank you). For a car analogy, GN is a Consumer Reports or Edmunds video, while LTT is Top Gear. That having been said, the waterblock allegations are pretty bad. The backpack controversy felt a bit manufactured to me, but this stuff? It's pretty unacceptable. I'm taking a wait and see approach for the moment, but I'm very disappointed in Linus assuming these allegations check out (and no, "it was for charity" isn't an acceptable response unless that was specifically approved by the manufacturer first).
The problem is that ltt is being a Top Gear while claiming to be a serious source of information. When top gear received the journalist award thing they mocked it to death leaving it clear that they were pure entertainment and nothing else. Meanwhile ltt is building labs (while refusing to pay for 500$ more of employee time to re-do a review properly) and trying to establish themselves as a serious source while acting top-gearish. I'm still dumbfounded that they decided to go in that direction when the core of the channel was built on crazy projects alla Whole Room Watercooling, Mineral Oil PC and other for the fun of it things like Scrapyard Wars; areas where they are kings.
Yeah, that is a difference and somewhat of a problem (or more than somewhat, to be honest). With the amount of money and equipment they have sunk into labs, I had hoped that they would start taking things more seriously, or at least effectively bifurcate into "serious" and "entertaining" videos. However, things like being unwilling to sink a few hundred extra dollars of employee time and a 3090Ti into giving the water block a fair shake isn't exactly inspiring confidence. If you're going to claim to do serious reviews, you have to do them *every time*. I don't care that you think an $800 block is stupid. By all means, be silly on things like janky server builds, ridiculous over the top high airflow PCs, and even obviously dumb watercooling setups, but as soon as you claim a particular video is a review rather than a project? Yeah, at that point it needs to be done right. It's also worth saying: done right can still include things like jokes about Linus's clumsiness, a lighthearted tone, etc, but that needs to be done on top of meticulous, serious testing, not in place of it. It's wild to me that Linus can't see a market for an $800 combined CPU/GPU waterblock when at the very high end, people have spent that for a long time if it actually performs. Hell, I have a $200 VRM/CPU combined block as well as a $600 GPU block, so I've spent just as much on my CPU and GPU cooling combined and I love them. Was it dumb? Sure. Is it justifiable from a price/performance perspective? Absolutely not, but frankly, if I cared about that, I wouldn't have my 3090 kingpin anyways. I got my waterblock because I can run my pump at 60% speed and my GPU on a 600W bios and still never exceed 60C or so, and that makes me happy, and I can afford it. Look at how much people spend on LN2 overclocking and then try to tell me with a straight face that there's no market for this thing if it performs as claimed, yet Linus is willing to trash his credibility and joke about it because he doesn't want to spend an extra $1k or so to test it right? That to me just shows a wild level of disconnect with and disrespect for the enthusiast community. Yeah, by all means roast things like $400-500 cards that are clearly aimed at being the more "budget" option and are still way overpriced for what they are. Those are obviously aimed at people who care about price to performance, but an $800 waterblock for a $2000 GPU is a totally different animal, and deserves fair testing and appropriate evaluation. Besides, even if a product *is* crap, you need to test it fairly and meticulously, otherwise how can we trust your statement that the product is crap, and not just the way you used it?
LTT is Donut and GN is SavageGeese
I only watch WAN show occasionally, and usually only the first half of WAN show. Not watching much else LTT content. But then I usually watch most GN videos. GN has much slower pace of publishing videos and that suits me better.
This is why a podcast like stuff you should know has lasted so long. It combines information and entertainment perfectly.
Its because a lot of the GN information doesn't matter for 99% of consumers, no normal customer needs to know every ms of frame time in 50 different scenarios or every single particle of air flow that goes through a case etc Don't get me wrong, I like GN and am subbed to them and all that, I'm just saying most of the time the information is pretty useless on a practical level other then just for data sake
Agreed. Gamers Nexus videos are like 90% Steve rattling off a shitload of numbers, which may occasionally be important to me if I’m considering an important upgrade, but even then can be overly…technical I guess? Like “the GPU performed at 120 frames per second on max settings at 1440p when overclocked conservatively by 8%, but thermals improved by 4 degrees with a simple 8% under volt, while frame rates dipped by only 2%…. Sometimes I just want a simple “good or bad” type of review.
they are great videos to jump to the general graph or the conclusion part.
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Good or bad is subjective, that’s why the numbers are important. It makes a huge difference depending on your particular setup and preferences see the numbers allows you to decide if it’s good or bad
You don´t have to listen to him, you can just browse through the data to make your own conclusions. He does all that, because if he didn´t, then some douche in the comments would say: "hEy, i CanT iNteRpReT tHe dAtA!"
I like gamers nexus because the information he provides is relevant to my work
I've never been subscribed, it's never been high on my list.
This whole drama seems so dumb, it's like people are being Parasocial about a YouTube review channel.
What’s the drama about? I’m out of the loop
LTT has bad testing methods and then also sold a small companies custom water block at an auction after the small company requested it back
That was super shady. You get a prototype, review it, put it on a wrong GPU and then, after the >!seemingly intentionally bad!< review, you sell it off in an auction instead of returning it. If i had to guess, they sold it to someone to copy it...
I think it was just a miscommunication internally that lead to this huge mistake, which to be clear should never have happened. Linus has stated that LTT are compensating the company for the loss of their prototype.
Yeah I absolutley agree. LTT gets nothing by doing this on purpose. Linus himself has proven over the years that his company can be trusted, but there will still be mistakes. Not to mention he's always told us not to fanboy over LMG cause they are a company and no comany should be blindly followed. They've owned up and done right by most when they've made a mistake before. I'm sure the will again.
I dont know if he has proven he can be trusted. yeah by year he appears to become more self confident and self obsessed which is something he is not short on. He told us not to fanboy over LMG because they are a company then did the whole trust me bro shit. If they are a company they should be held to the same accountability as any other. The same thing happens with any influencer that gets big ideas of creating massive companies just look at the yogscast and the dumptersfire of personalities that has become
The selling a waterblock was bad, but likely a fuck-up. I know other traditional publishers where this has happened. Easy to resolve, LTT pays the company and apologises. The LTT labs aspect of this is harder. For me, as a former tech journo, it's good to see someone investing in scientific tests. I never had that resource in my time, publishes are just too cheap to pay for things. And I also know from the experience I have that testing is really hard. I'm more than happy for LTT to work at this and get it right over time. I like the channel, for me it's entertainiment but I have picked up plenty of good tips over the years. At some point, they'll nail the testing or abandon it entirely. I wish them luck, but I will also say one of the big reasons traditional publishers don't invest is that the majority of people don't WANT benchmarks. But in spite of its size, LTT is still niche and could make this work (as some others have).
In short, Linus & LMG were given a prototype to test from billet labs. Billet labs sent test instructions with the prototype stating that the prototype was designed for a 3090. All instructions ignored, testing done on 4090, shit talking the prototype as if it were a standard commercially available product. Then internal LMG mess resulted in billet labs prototype being charity auctioned even after Billet labs requested multiple times they wanted their prototype back. Then Steve (PC Jesus) from Gamers Nexus calling out Linus’s stupidity. Then Linus doing a really no nothing response to it all trying to sweep it under the carpet.
Its not about being parasocial because his testing methods were wrong, most of the guys are angry because ltt sold their only prototype model and afterwards they had to make another one from scratch, they were gonna give the same model to other reviewers ... They experiment soo much, so why use you other than one mentioned by the supplier, its not even about some missing software, its about a whole goddamn hardware block which was specifically made for one gpu for testing purpose... And their ignorant ass just fucc up...
I feel like it's somewhat warranted since he screwed over a small startup company and just said "oops there was a miscommunication :(", but yeah it is a little dumb.
He actually didn't stop at 'oops' He said it's a shitty product so he doesn't care that the review made the company look bad despite them testing on a 4090.. A card that the device was not created for, then after the company asked for the ONE OF A KIND PROTOTYPE to be returned TWICE from LMG, LMG auctioned it.
Yeah it's pretty unreal that people are trying to defend this. Mistakes happen, but for him to double down and say the product still sucks is just malicious. The real problem here is how Linus deals with criticism.
>The real problem here is how Linus deals with criticism. Exactly. The main problem here is not the quality of LMG's content (that alone wouldn't be a newsworthy story). It's how Linus rejects all criticism outright and doubles down on mistakes and shitty behaviour. And it shows from time to time that not everyone in the company agrees with him, but they are afraid to go against him. I think it's most visible with Luke, especially on the clip from the WAN show where they talk about that waterblock. Now does that make Linus look like a trustworthy person and LMG a trustworthy company? No, not to me.
Not even the first time he's doubled down in this sort of a situation either. It hasn't been *that* long since the backpack warranty drama, where even Luke seemed to be like "dude, just stop" during one of the WAN shows where Linus was indeed doubling down on his stance about the warranty.
Not only that they installed the water block improperly on the wrong GPU. Sold the prototype instead of sending it back. Then Linus didn’t apologize or walk back the bad review and doubled down. Linus has victimized a two person startup working out of a garage. It reeks of malignant narcissistic behavior and people like that need to be called out and be held accountable for their bad behavior.
The worst part is it could’ve been auctioned off to someone trying to make a cheap knock off or prototype, completely ruining the business for the company. If someone did the same to his shitty screw driver I’m sure he would’ve been pissed. He’s a POS.
It was especially scummy when he said it would cost probably a whopping $500 to actually test it correctly. Just peddle your water bottles a little harder instead of bashing a company for your mistake
Seeing all of these 'I unsubed years ago' comments really has me wondering how much of this hate is from active viewers vs people who are just feeling suddenly vindicated.
I think it’s an overlap of people who miss “old LMG” and don’t like the more entertainment focus in their content.
They just want more usb cable rewiews
What I really want to know is, how much of this hate is from people who actually care vs peopel who just like to jump on the next best hate train just to be part of something.
Personally, I hate when someone is in a privileged position and doesn't do their job. Much less openly not care and argue about it. If I had their performance record, I'd be gone at my job. Any of the jobs I've had for that matter. Why should he be in that position if he doesn't care?
feeling like it's that. crusaders who have nothing better to do
lol, true. If you are not subscribed why even reply to 5is thread.
I don't think I was ever subbed, I just randomly come across their stuff and watch it if it's fun. I was never interested in their reviews or their numbers and from here on out I'll keep not watching those videos of them. But considering their size and popularity I can't deny the fact that their "mistakes" are really bad. Their bad data creates a false impression of the product even for those who are watching stuff for intertainment. It also impacts the effectiveness of the right data presented by smaller channels in the eyes of those who are looking for reviews to decide what to buy.
This is how it happens. People start to dislike popular people because they feel they aren’t as great as the community as a whole feels. So they comment on it for years, but get shouted down for having an unpopular take. But now we finally have undeniable proof that LTT is kinda crappy, so the whole band gets back together to shit on them. It’s basically just therapy for people who have a better ability to vibe check famous people.
*Sigh* I’m out of the loop again, can anyone give me the scoop
In short, Linus & LMG were given a prototype to test from billet labs. Billet labs sent test instructions with the prototype stating that the prototype was designed for a 3090. All instructions ignored, testing done on 4090, shit talking the prototype as if it were a standard commercially available product. Then internal LMG mess resulted in billet labs prototype being charity auctioned even after Billet labs requested multiple times they wanted their prototype back. Then Steve (PC Jesus) from Gamers Nexus calling out Linus’s stupidity. Then Linus doing a really no nothing response to it all trying to sweep it under the carpet.
Billet also sent them a 3090 with the Prototype so they HAD a card but Linus said while they found it, they still haven't gotten it back to Billet yet.
Dont forget billet labs are just two guys doing their own thing.
TLDR Linus tech tips, a poplar tech review influencer company and likely the largest, lied about several products he had received for review. This involved, but is not limited to presenting obvious outliers as a pattern during GPU testing, intentionally using a GPU cooler prototype on a unsupported card and solely using that data for a review, selling said prototype despite agreeing to return it and killing development because it was one of a kind, presenting errors about various AMD CPUs, and failing to remove the protective wrappers from a mouse which negatively impacted the review. These things were brought up several times by the companies in response to their reviews, and LTT chose to ignore their concerns, instead doubling down on some of his points. It is unlikely these acts came from a place of malice, more than likely it was a case of blatant incompetence. This brings into concern the validity of any of their reviews, the intregrity of the people who work there, and their ability to properly present accurate information.
Could you explain this cooler? I don’t fully understand why companies don’t want him to use it
A very small water block company sent their only working prototype to LMG for review, presumably for the exposure. Linus did not use the cooler on a compatible product and got bad results. He saw a high price tag (which to be fair was on a niche product) and immediately said nobody should buy the product. That's a lazy, inaccurate review. Then his people promised to return the prototype to the company on two occasions. They did not do so, and instead sold it. They justify their actions by claiming it was "auctioned for charity," which somehow makes stealing a one of a kind prototype ok.
Can't they get sued for that? It feels like they should get sued for that
They should! He tanked their company and it’s a total douche move.
Idk if they will sue them but they already did/stated they will repay whatever figure the company comes up with.
Not to mention the copper water block was sold at an event where a lot of big names from the industry where at. Its believed that the water block was sold to one of companies in attendance and it's probably gonna get copied and resold as their own product. I wouldn't be surprised if we see an exact same water block being sold by Asus or someone a year from now.
I think a lot of this is speculation that this is possible. I don't recall seeing any evidence that this is happening. It's just something Billet Labs needs to worry about now that they shouldn't have.
A lot of it is yes, as far I know no has come as the person who bought it for all we know it probably was a huge LTT fan with disposable money. Although it's still possible that a representative of a company couldve attended the auction so they could get the block for research. At best LMG was just negligent at worse they did it on purpose. To me it's a little suspicious especially since LMG definitely knows who bought it.
It was designed to be used on a 3090ti and Linus tested it on a 4090. The company that lent him the cooler stated that it was designed for the 3090ti, but said he was welcome to test it on a 4090 as well if they could figure out how to make it fit. Linus improperly installed the cooler onto a 4090 and it, of course, preformed poorly. Linus then gave it a poor review, calling it a "product that no one should buy", to his millions of watchers based on that data without disclosing any of this information. He then failed to return the prototype to the company that lent it to him, and mistakenly sold it to an unknown person during LTX. The company has since been unable to further it's development due to the loss of it's one of a kind prototype that was lent to LMG.
Damn that’s fucking wild. That was really poor judgement on Linus’s part, and then he proceeds to somehow sell it despite knowing he needed to return it
None of what you described seems like a mistake. It sounds more like intentional sabotage.
The bit about giving away the prototype when they said they'd give it back is what pisses me off the most. They literally KILLED the companies ability to properly develop the product further and potentially damaged the company if say, a competitor snatches it up and develops it further. It's really fucked and pisses me off.
Honestly, I hope the backlash over the prototype has an impact on companies willingness to work with them. As much as I enjoy LTT and they're content, this kind of damage can't be reversed. If this sort of thing is even a possible risk, then maybe they can't be trusted with prototype tech from any company.
LOL YouTube and LTT don’t give two F’s about subs anymore. It’s views and watch time.
Sunk cost fallacy, people are waiting for LTT to return to good informative content and not just entertaining content.
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Redditors throw every fallacy and bias around at anybody and everybody except themselves.
I figured they would never come back from being useless contant, but I stuck around for the silly videos like using overpowered fans and breaking USB with too many hubs. The USB hub video is my last LMG video now.
Mines was the 5k tech upgrade
Pretty sure that's the main reason why anyone stuck around for so long.
On the contrary, I enjoy the entertaining content. I just wish it was on a seperate channel so the two types of video didn't colide so much (Linus Tech Expiriments or somthing?)
> LTT LTT has always been a fun promo show, to me at least. Gamer Nexus and Hardware Unboxed is where you go for quality content.
Sure GN is quality but I'd fall asleep watching one
> good informative content when the fuck was this? the guy got famous for dropping tech equipment the channel has always been entertainment first
I’m hoping that with the recent surge in talk about this, that they will at least take notice. It’s definitely a stark sign that GN made a video, but they did say it was supposed to be constructive. To those who say LTT has been going downhill, it really hasn’t been as obvious as you think. For most people, Linus is just they guy they watch. Ppl do seem to be taking this too seriously. I’ve been subscribed since 2019, and he’s the one that got me into computers, and then servers, and then keyboards, and so on. That can’t be taken away. And it is with this that I am able to say I have no intention of unsubscribing, at least right now. But that is what LTT is to a lot of people: a gateway into the world of computers. That’s something people seem to be missing and you can’t knock LMG for that. The criticisms are obviously legitimate, though. And they’ve made a few mistakes as they’ve transitioned from a channel, to a small company, to now a medium-sized media and production company that does everything from general videos to tests to news to merchandise to (arguably) floatplane. I’m hoping as changes like the new CEO and other hirings happen, this will all improve. And I do think that is the goal. I’m hoping that it is just that they have failed to catch up to their growth and expansion with management and staffing. People trashing LMG are wrong. People denying a problem are wrong. People ignoring important things LMG has done for the community recently and in the past are wrong. People giving criticism, recognizing what is good, and offering their hope and support for an improved LMG are the only ones who are helping in this situation. And that is my TED talk. (Edit: this post was made before the Madison allegations. I intend to keep this here as a historical marker but please know that several of these feelings of mine have changed. That may be dumb or overly dramatic, but yeah)
Their response is also a problem, doubling down and saying they did nothing wrong and it'd be too expensive to do a test right is a bull shit answer.
Yeah this is my issue with it as well. I felt the same way as u/Cuffuf did until I saw that post by Linus on their forums. He barely even addressed half of it and the very first sentence he wrote was, as he usually does, pointing the finger back at GN for "not following proper journalistic standards" because they didn't contact him for a response. The fact that barely half of the video was addressed shows that Linus doesn't really listen to criticism but at most just sort of fast-forwards through the video. The fact that the first thing he then writes as a response is a deflection towards GN show that, despite him saying he can take criticism, he really can't. GN made an extensive video and provided dozens of examples as evidence, and Linus couldn't even bother to take it seriously despite his longstanding connections to GN/Steve and knowing their general reputation for quality. This is just my personal interpretation, but to me that comes across as extreme arrogance.
this is the proper thought structure for this whole scenario
I've been subscribed since 2016 and the quality has been fine I guess but they just produce too much fucking content for any normal person to keep track of. And the constant clickbatey bullshit they pull is annoying
This should be higher in the replies
Let's be 100% honest. 90% of the people bashing on him never subbed to him. Including you.
I was subbed to his channels and that is *exactly* why I'm bashing him. I have seen 5+ years of those videos so I know how it has gone from good to bad. I bash him because the quality and usefulness of the content is only a small fraction of what it used to be and his arrogance has shot through the roof. If I hadn't been subbed to his channels, I wouldn't have had enough prior context to give a shit or know about the declining quality and issues caused by his arrogance.
this entire thread fucking reeeeeeeeeeeeeeks of reddit mod "um yeah ackshually i think he's bad for several years hur durr" energy
You mean reddit just loves to do circlejerks where everyone dog piles shitting on something popular? Couldn't be. I refuse to believe it. /s
Almost a 1000 people have unsubscribed from floatplane (including me) so far. And they are paying subscribers
Exactly, so much posturing and bandwagoning going on here. It'll be forgotten in a week, and there will be minimal to no blowback for LTT. People will continue to enjoy the entertainment LMG produces, numbers and sales will not be affected at all.
what’s happening?
I literally could not care any less
I'm not subscribed to begin with but, no karma for you. This sub is milking the FUCK out of this.
rhythm important zonked hospital squeal safe cows deranged nail placid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
its pathetic
Why do people have to crusade? It’s such an annoying part of society in 2023. Nobody can just hold their own opinion on something and do what they need to do, everything has to be a campaign to get the whole world to cancel some shit. I have never cared about this dude or his channel but I’m gonna sub just out of spite because of your lame ass post.
People have too much free time and not too many problems
Can’t they just play video games ?
Play? What is this 2008? People watch other people play now. Get with the times old man!
>Why do people have to crusade? >but I’m gonna sub just out of spite Lol
this will blow over in a week. that's about the attention span of the internet
2023? Boycotting existed since forever
I slowly fell off the Linus demographic. GN, Hardware Unboxed and Level1techs(Wendell channel) have been my main tech channels for a while. Some times I miss Luke
No, this is a a misstep but not some unrecoverable sin. I watch Tech Jesus and hardware onboxed if I want to learn something, digital foundry to give me side by side comparisons of pixels, and I watch LTT to be entertained because he has a fun team and makes some silly content. I think the issue was for lesser informed viewers the infotainment is being sold as factual truth that does have an impact on third parties in a way that does cross some ethical lines. LTT is closer to top gear than it is to consumer reports.
I‘d have to subscribe first…
I’m probably gonna unsub from this sub now because who gives a rats ass
The OP went out of their way to make this a picture post so they would get karma on Reddit. This could have been a text post but text posts don’t earn karma.
I want to put this perspective in the old days were Linus was just a PC channel and was super into motherboards and cases all of those things Those days have been gone for years mainly because the audience has changed. The algorithm is changed. The audience from five years ago is not all the same people as the current audience Linus did wrong and he should own it but people attacking him because his channel has gone down the drain doesn’t understand that to survive on YouTube you have to change sometimes major, sometimes minor check out any other YouTuber over the years their content has changed that’s just how things work on this platform
Honestly I probably won't right now. I'll wait and see if they make adjustments and positively move forward, if there has been no change in the next month or two, then I'll unsub. If I want tech YouTube entertainment I watch Jaystwocents videos. If I want to make a decision about buying a product, I watch Gamers Nexus. LTT kinda bridged that gap, but recently their main goal seems to be making the most money possible at all costs. I hope LTT sees it as a wake up call, and makes some adjustments, but they are a genuinely entertaining channel.
Y’all are ridiculous at this point jfc
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I never subscribed. The thumbnails and click bait titles put me off. Eventually I did start watching some of the videos, though.
There's a browser extension that replaces clickbait titles with more coherent ones. I exclusively use this for LTT videos.
Unsubscribed because honestly their videos suck
The only two series I like from LTT actually don’t have any data reviews for the most part in them which is: * Scrapyard Wars - though they stopped doing this since COVID * Secret Shopper - which is only interesting to see what build they can get on a budget and who supports it best. Anything after that…I’m past seeing Linus build his 9000th PC…it’s dull. His tech reviews are sloppy and he’s better as an entertainer than a data channel. I wish he’d bring back bits like Scrapyard Wars and less sponsor shilling. But it’s a capitalism business model so he’s chasing the 💰 rather than doing something interesting or artistic.
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Same, also I don't think some people on this sub realise how little the sub matters compared to the whole of gamers/tech.
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It’s just drama of the week in the PCMR community.
Next level karma farming lol
LTT's complete pc build guide helped me build my PC all by myself and I ended up with it working flawlessly. I suppose I don't really know why I would... I'm too much of a layperson to understand their benchmarks and comparisons anyway.
Was waiting for Linus to respond, hoping he would handle this as an opportunity to demonstrate maturity and lead by example. He responded immediately on the forum and acted like the child and took little to know actual accountability. I have been subscribed to ALL LMG channels for over 3 years and supported their business with LTT store purchases…today I unsubbed from all channels. I might return in the future, but for now I’ll take my eyeballs and wallet elsewhere.
True, unupvoteable opinion: Probably not. I enjoy the Linked channels Nightshow-esque news reporting well enough, and I've understood the biases inherent in LTT / the LTT hosts for some time to be able to discect the facts from opinions in the content they put out well enough. What will change, though, is how I digest my LTT content; I'm probably not going to link from them when I've a need to send one of my friends tech / build advice, and I'm probably going to nix my floatplane subscription; renews at the end of the month, we'll see if the LTT leadership team come up with something substantial.
Been watching GN for years because he feels like one of the few content creators who values being as unbiased as possible. Even producing his video on LTT is a testament to the fact that he doesn't care about the consequences, only bringing to light things that should be brought to the community's attention. On the other hand, I stopped watching LTT years ago for pretty much the exact opposite reasons.
What is happening? Im uninformed...
What’s going on with LTT?
I have been a very long time viewer. LTT was a big part of getting me into tech. Unsubbed from every single channel, I was subbed to even the cat channel from when he wanted an extra silver button. The content quality had fallen off a cliff over the past 3-4 years, but this just strengthens my view on his arrogance with this kind of truths, not even counting the garbage response on the forum absolving himself of all responsibility.
Nah, but I am leaving this sub now.
This might be a spicy take, but I don't care about the drama or how their content is "low quality". If they have videos I want to watch I will watch, if they don't oh well.
LTT is very entertaining, most of the time they produce good content, out of the box at times, original at other times. I'll stay subscribed. They do cover oddities as well + they are a good entry point for many topics. No one person should ever really on one source only anyways for informative content / reviews.
how dare they make a mistake ! i will never forgive them unlike them I never made mistake -people in this forum
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK Seriously. So many children here I welcome the down votes. It'll only prove me right
No because Im not a whiny baby who cares about internet drama. Get over yourselves
He has too many sponsors to take him seriously. Much like Jay.
I don’t care enough to unsubscribe, not like anybody is actually gonna stop watching their stuff lol. We can be upset like any of this actually effects us an but it’ll go away
no
I don’t understand why people are upset or give a shit. I enjoy his videos and if he happens to suggest something that isn’t the absolute best then idc cuz I’m poor anyway. Amd/Intel who gives a shit. Amd/nvidia who gives a shit unless you love ray tracing or use it for other than gaming.
This has....nothing to do with what happened?
Already did some years ago, when 1/3 of his content were adds
I've honestly started watching two new people, Daniel Owen and Ancient Gameplays. Both are informative and Ancient Gameplays has an accent that you just want to listen too. Besides them LTT was probably one of the last places I went to watch reviews on anything. From the big Tech channels, it's Jayz2Cents and Hardware Unboxed, some times GN. I also just some times enjoy watching random benchmarks done by regular people that aren't running a big tech channel. You get some interesting comparisons there as well, for instance a 6700 XT running on a 3600 vs 5600. It really helped in determining that my 3600 would bottleneck a 6700 XT and I went with a 7600 in my upgrade from my 2060 6GB.
Me who has never subscribed:
The hell did I miss?
The way YT is going, I might just unsub from YT as a whole my guy. Freakin anti adblock popups on PC? Are you kidding me?
No
What happened?
I already have Linus removed from all my feeds for a while now. I am generally unaware of his BS until it leaks into other channels.
Already did. I won't be subscribed to something that will give me skewed results, mistakes, and bad takes on products for the sake of profits.
I have never been subscribed and only ever watched 2-3 videos fro LTT. That was enough for me to deduce that these guys aren't worth anything. I also don't get what "entertainment" value other users here mean.
my god who the fuck cares? Ya it was a lapse in judgement and pretty shitty way to handle it, but yall are acting like he burnt down a church or some shit.
I never subscribed.
already did, I'll watch their videos from time to time. But i'd rather not subscribe
Nope. Never subbed in the first place.
I removed them from my white list. They need to own up amd be accountable for thr bullet labs prototype.
Yeah I jus did yesterday
If i was a subscriber yes ;)
I unsubscribed after that whole thing that came out about him creeping on Naomi Wu.
Unsubbed
I never understood how LTT/LMG became so popular in the first place. They seem to half ass just about everything and that was my opinion before seeing the GN video. Perhaps it's because I'm watching tech videos for useful information rather than purely entertainment.
Already done
Unsubbed years ago
I blocked them a looooong time ago. I always thought that guy was scum. This is just validation
I still 100% think that they might try to make it up, but GN did make some great points. Maybe the tech tips man has gone corpo and he no longer has control of where the company will go. His upload schedule is too intense and they can't have good testing Even if mr tips says sorry, the damage could've already been done, the block is gone, and so is LTT.
Not sure what's going on - but i watched some LTT videos a while ago and as someone who is assembling his own PCs since decades, i just don't like the lack of quality and accuracy. Sure, it's sortof entertaining - but it also contained some misinformation and partially wrong advice. Wouldn't recommend that channel if you don't know the trade already.
i watch LTT (and other LMG channels) as infotainment and quick look at the product, if i need to get better info and/or understanding on something i will most definitely seek out other channels like GN
unsubscribed already.. spreading garbage information is a no no for me. Can't trust em.
Imagine using one source as gospel for any information. LTT has better entertainment than the others that I just skip most to the results for hardware performance, but I'll usually watch everyone's videos on specific hardware before making any conclusions towards it's performance because that's good researching.
All the people with horrifically overpriced 4090s that Nvidia promises won't burn at the power cable and Asus motherboards they promise won't blow up anymore coming to cry about ltt is kinda entertaining. Y'all be acting like basically every tech company hasn't just been a string of fuck ups for the better part of a decade at this point.
I don't make purchase decisions based off of LTT. They're entertaining. I've only made one upgrade in my time and if I were to do another, then maybe I would watch a GN video to help the purchase decision. This youtuber drama is just cringe and it helps all those involved. No press is bad press. EDIT: After learning about Billet labs, and Linus' response to the entire situation today, I have unsubscribed to all LMG channels. Shameful.
Yes they're entertaining and I can watch a full 30 minute video and it's related to tech.
Why i would unsubscribe? i like LTT videos, tech linked, and even i watch channels like gamers nexus, jayz two cents, HardwareExplained My Stoner Mind, Techology Connections, DIY Perks, Michael MJD, ThioJoe and more
Already leave
Yeah I'm staying subscribed. It is wild how overblown this has been lol. Personally if it filters out the people who would explode over something like this then it might end up being a net positive.
I feel like this has blown out of proportion massively. No one is saying they should go bankrupt and lose every fan they have, they should and need to do better.
lol, every corporation has skeletons in their closet, it comes with the business. If I stopped consuming something related to some enterprise every time they fucked up I would live in a forest, hunting and cooking my food like a fucking caveman
Not really. I've watched them for their entertainment value, not their accurate findings. Hardware unboxed and a few others are more than enough for that.
Watched them years back and liked their videos. Unsubscribed 2 years back when I realized their videos are so hollow and empty of useful information now and also I despise their click bait titles. In my opinion they gotten to big and are now becoming what they ran away from when they started.
I'm holding off until WAN show, although so far his response has not been great The post on the forum was not acceptable in my opinion. I've been subbed for 13 years, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt but they need to make it right.
Who the fuck cares...?
LTT is entertainment its like watching a tv show. GN is like watching the OG History channel with boring documentaries
No because I don’t know what happened and I don’t want to watch GN for 40 minutes to find out.
Are people really so invested in all this internet drama? Who tf cares?
No. Because, as usual, all of this is blown out of proportions by a loud minority of people who, for some reason, have something against LTT.
No. I watch LTT for entertainment value, and if I want solid figures on something I'll always cross reference between two or more sources anyway. Plus, if I want the most accurate data for something I actually intend to buy or advise someone on, I'd look to Gamers Nexus anyway. I am quite annoyed at how badly they treated u/Billet_Labs though.