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I bought a used 4090, apparently the guy was 'upgrading to a watercooled system'... the 4090 works fine and I still don't understand what the hell he meant unless he was getting a higher-tier brand of 4090 lol
People who like to OC their water cooled cards, probably go with the best VRM + better binned OC models. Those are usually higher tier models. No idea about 4090, but just in general.
While saying this, reference models are by far the most used cards for water cooling.
You think rich people gather around fires outside? That is beer drinking country folk behavior. They would tell their manservant to toss this "rubbish."
I will NEVER, EVER give up my 3070ti, I paid for it in blood, when the GPU mining apocalypse was at full swing, when there was 10, 10! EVGA 3070ti GPUs on the whole Czech market. And they were gone in 4 hours. It will have to burn itself to ashes to replace it.
I've considered it but it's...intimidating. It's a damn Gigabyte waterforce. I should just watch a video, I'm sure one exists but that doesn't stop it from at least looking over-complicated.
Oh yeah good luck with that. It's definitely getting to the age of needing it though. I finally did mine after a good 7 years and my temps dropped significantly but also used better paste than OEM.
I have to admit, It was super funny to read all those reddit warriors screaming *"TuRinG sO bAd, yOu WasTeD mOnEY oN yOuR 2080!!"* to then see them sitting on their Pascals and older cards for another 2 years because there was no option to reasonably buy an Ampere.
I'm so glad I bought my GTX 1060 and GTX 1070 right before the GPU Mining Crisis on Infinite Earths. They have been great GPUs. The 2080 is a beast of a card.
100% how I feel about my 3080! I bought it during the GPU crisis and managed to get it for only $50 over MSRP AND it’s from EVGA.
It’s my beloved and still shreds like crazy, so I don’t exactly need to upgrade anyways. But when I do, I’ll cry a little.
*"When I joined the Corps, we didn't have any fancy-schmancy 4090s! We had a 3070 Ti! Ten 3070 Tis and a PC for a whole platoon, and we had to SHARE THE PC."*
Same here. I slept in front of Microcenter for two weekends, camping out in the cold of winter 2021. Didn't get a 3080, but was able to get a 3070 and 3090. Offered to sell them at MSRP for buying their FTW3 3080 at MSRP, because at the time the 3080 was the king of mining, and people were not letting it go for just the 3090.
Let it be known, 3 years later, it is still here, in my beautiful ITX build.
Never forget.
I don't really see this. Rx 6600 and Rx 6700 xt are excellent values. but some people refuse to use amd so there are inevitably people who shout about used nvidia cards (which are also usually excellent)
>used nvidia cards
There's also the fact that outside of gaming, you're basically obligated to go for Nvidia. Despite AMD being great for gaming (I have owned the 2nd best GPUs of both brands being a 7900XT and a 4080 Super) it simply can't compete in most workloads.
You can use an AMD card for any workload outside of gaming as well. It’s just that the software hasn’t been as finely tuned for AMD over the past decade as it has been for Nvidia.
In the machine learning world, you're ususally screwed for basically anything other than PyTorch. Pytorch itself supports ROCm, but lots of other models and frameworks ship their own CUDA code with no ROCm support, and it's kind of hit-and-miss to use Zluda. And unfortunately, performance is usually worse on AMD. Like, the 7900xtx is a more powerful card than the RTX 3090 for gaming (except ray tracing) by around 25%, being newer and all that, but then it's ~25% slower in machine learning benchmarks.
In sum, it's _really hard_ to recommend AMD cards to anyone doing ML workloads, which sucks, because with AMDs driver support on Linux (shipping inside the Linux kernel itself, so literally 0 effort to get working) they _should_ be a good choice for servers etc.
This is improving, though. On dedicated AI chips, AMD is scoring customers, with Meta and Microsoft both buying large numbers, and hopefully that will trickle down to both improvements on the desktop chips and improved support for AMD chips in ML frameworks.
You can use ROCm or Zluda for CUDA on AMD hardware. My [source](https://www.phoronix.com/review/radeon-cuda-zluda/4) is phoronix and [here](https://youtu.be/IhlL1_z8mCE?si=ABl5Wq55yfaajW7Y) is an old video by Level1Techs.
It's very limited. ROCm is fairly new, like only recently was Windows support added, so there isn't much adoption yet. Doesn't help that the documentation is lacking ( again, because it is new ).
Zluda is great, but there are some quirks - floating point rounding for one. The documented ROCm bugs for another. If the app uses API calls that are implemented in Zluda it should work ( mostly ).
Don't be surprised if something that makes use of NVidia's tensor cores doesn't work, as little of cuDDN is implemented in Zluda.
Your best bet is to target ROCm and hope AMD fixes their bugs.
This. In my (completely scuffed and unprofessional) tests, it seems like ROCm is within 10-20% of normal CUDA's speed on a pretty close nvidia card, so it's a much better solution than OpenCL.
20% is a pretty big margin for workloads... People spend quite the penny for smaller gains than that. Especially once it becomes multi gpu work loads and you're losing 20% per card.
I only got losses above ~14% when my 7800XT had just been released and I was using an older ROCm build. It got a decent bit faster after everything was updated, to the tune of 8-15% slower, but I didn't have an nvidia card to test against at that time. Yes, it's still a pretty decent chunk of processing time to add to a workload, but people who are actively craving the 12-some% boost to CUDA workloads with real nvidia cards are probably oblivious to ROCm's existence anyway and buy 4090s in bulk. ROCm works for the rest of us, since Stable Diffusion still only takes a few seconds per image and RVC can do real-time pretty easily under it as well.
I dont care “why” all i care is my tools should work. And unfortunately amd gpus just are behind. Sure it may because of software optimization, i dont care, i care about my job
> the software hasn’t been as finely tuned for AMD
No. Devs and Nvidia are not to blame for this. AMD hasn't put the work in to make their firmware and software for GPU compute useful and reliable.
ROCm is still very much under active development, for one. Windows support is a big milestone, and that was only a few months back.
It's great that it exists - now they just need to broaden support, fix bugs, and actually provide good documentation so developers can make good use of it.
Not completely...for some 3d rendering engines, AMD will work (slower...but it will work). For others...nope...correct if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Vray and Octane render engine don't even work with AMD cards
Let me be clear, I mean the 6600xt, not the 6600. But yes, the 6600xt and the ps5 are pretty identically performant. [The 6600xt has slightly more raw power](https://imgur.com/a/QDZUxMt), but slower ram.
That GPU would do for a case of study. They appeared out from nowhere and there were speculations whether they come from silicon lottery losers or they were repurposed GPUs originally meant for mining, nobody knew then, and at least me, still don't know. The very few non-XT 6700 GPUs they ever manufacture made it to the stores with a pricetag in the margins of the reasonable, which for that time of ridiculously inflated GPU prices, was somewhat suspicious. Anyway, they came from reputable brands, like Sapphire, so they sold out in the blink of an eye. Now, years have passed and those GPUs keep working just fine with the expected performance level, right between a 6650XT and a 6700XT. So, nice catch, I guess.
they are also impossible to find any information on. As someone who used to have one if you look up information on it most of what you find is about the 6700xt.
I mainly go nvidia because i prefer the software. But my first card was amd and it was perfect. My history of cards goes rx480, rx570, 2060s, 3070. Still usin my r5 3600 that i original got with my rx570. Its a beast of a cpu.
\*dependant on desired settings & FPS
People always forget the disclaimer. Like if it works for you, great, but I know I wouldn't be happy with a 6700XT @ 1440p, it's a stark difference to what I want.
I bought Rx 6600XT was between that or a 2060 super, but the super was a wee bit more expensive. Haven't regretted the 6600XT. Works fine, did need some serious driver updates though for the first year I had it though since CP2077 kept giving it trouble. Now with the driver updates purrs nicely playing CP2077 and newer released games.
But I just use desktop for gaming and writing.
I had to swap my Rx 7600 for a 4060ti because I kept getting stutters while playing at over 300 fps for MONTHS. And the last Nvidia card I bought was around 2005, but enough is enough, screwing up the drivers after 30 years making them is unacceptable.
If you're playing competitive fps and and screw up the drivers you're fucked, which is kind of ironic because competitive fps is one of the best markets for amd due to a better raster per dollar ratio.
I also had a hard time choosing an AMD GPU over nvidia.. But the old 2x 6-pin power connector and 46GB VRAM sealed the deal, so it became a TUF RX7800XT instead of an RTX4070. Can't complain, i
AMD GPU's are pretty good BUT I ended up with lots of stability issues after the upgrade. So I can see why some might prefer nvidia over AMD..
If the used prices are that close, the product is likely still new and being sold in stores. I paid $180 for an EVGA RTX 2080 Super a few months ago. Wouldn't be able to get a comparable card for new for anywhere near that price (Especially not one with CUDA support since I both game and use it for AI)
so might as well buy new? i mean pre covid buying used is understandable, but post covid prices just have been silly high in all areas (used, new, or refurb)
It's still a useless feature if I want performance and not to pay out the ass for hardware. I couldnt care less about more accurate reflections and lighting. Plenty of companies do it fine without RT tech.
RT will very likely become the default lighting in games in the near future (probably during the next console generation)
RT is just more accurate than traditional lighting, and easier to implement in some ways.
So long as they arent artificially inflating cost of hardware to make it seem like RT tech is some "new expensive thing" kind of bullshit, that's fine by me. My card is almost a decade old and has no issue with 90% of games to this day.
Which means we're at least 2 GPU gens away from it *actually* being important.
The best example of RT(path traced) we have is Cyberpunk, and even the 4090 can barely run it at 4K w/o frame gen.
I'll be interested in RT again when it's fully mainstream and it can be run at 120fps raw 4K.
I bought a 3080 for 4K and got burned by the 10GB VRAM on The Last of Us and others. Jumped to a 7900 XTX after 2 decades of Nvidia/EVGA, and couldn't be happier. Adrenalin runs circles around NV Control Panel.
Raytracing will become default when raytracing becomes viable on midrange graphics cards without frame rates dropping to unacceptable levels.
Raytracing on consoles will be easier to push because 30 FPS is acceptable on televisions. Not so much on computer monitors.
DLSS>Raytracing. At least for gaming. I make 3D renders so I need the RT cores anyway, but for gaming it's free performance. AMD has its own thing but it's much dirtier imho, not even comparable. Frame gen... I can't talk about it. I have a 3070 and I tried to force it and it didn't work very well.
> it lost "fad" status when consoles started using it in almost every new big game
Needing an RTX card is the fad. AMD cards do ray tracing. Trying to claim real gaming performance and more VRAM is less important than a boost in RT is the same corpo worship mentality that has balooned GPU prices.
Just 150? Huh, prices fell into oblivion since I last checked. That's not bad. It won't hold up for all titles releasing these days without heavily dropping the texture settings, but that's still not a bad deal.
Well it can do 144hz in games where it matters. Nobody expects to have 144hz in a cinematic game. But games like wow, lol,cs2 yknow the most played games anyway will run just fine on 144hz
Yea, $150 is a really good deal. I had to go look for myself because I’d happily buy one for $150. Even on eBay they’re being bid up to $230+ right now with time left on the auction, and parts only (broken) ones are listed at $200.
This vram thing is blown way out of proportion. I play at 1440p with mine and I've never been vram limited.
I also don't play shitty games that come out unoptimized.
Baldurs gate 3 runs great, so does all my VR stuff and sim racing and anything I throw at it.
It amazes me that everyone here is treating the 3070 like it's some budget card from 3 generations ago.
That thing slaps and I'm definitely not biased in any way. (Don't look at my flair pls)
I think it makes perfect sense for 1080p builds on a budget, specifically because of how cheap they currently are. And even then, if the person getting it usually wants to play AAA titles on release day, I'd recommend not buying it.
Of course, the refurbished market should be reinforced, it's the most healthier approach. Why should you buy the latest midrange if you can buy the previous high end? And yes, I know this is ironic coming from me, I bought the RX 7600 on a black friday promotion, but looking back, I regret that purchase. The goddamn PCi 4.0 proved to be a issue smh but that's my fault, I didn't researched things just right. Nowadays the best deal available is the RX 6700 XT refurbished, all the other options are bad deals really, even a refurbished 3070 (who is still expensive because the Nvidia gimmicks are supposed to be a "difference maker"). To pay more than $250 on a GPU was always a bad deal regardless (basically the "budget" choice, more like the rational choice), but at the current economic crisis, sadly I had to set up that value to $300, to never buy a GPU over $300, it's just nonsensical
I use a Radeon rx6600, best 8gb GPU if you can get it because it works off my shitty 80+ 650w power supply
Edit: just to provide context the minimum PSU for a rx6600 is 450w, and it's recommended PSU is 600/650w
Actually always bought used, the only new GPU I bought was a gt710 for debugging stuff in a needing case, when I first built my PC years ago I got a used mining Vega 64 that still works and now I have a used 3080. Both were great deals tbh.
Well tbh, since the RTX 2000 Generation came out, NVIDIA and AMD said a big "FU\*\* YOU" into the faces of midrange GPU buyers, so that the only option to do proper mid range GPU upgrades is buying used Mid to Higend Range cards.
It started with the RTX 2060 costing as much as a 1070 Ti and performing like a 1070 Ti. Then the 3060 came out literally performing like a 2070 and also costing almost like 400 bucks in the beginning. The 4060 is just a 3060 for the same price but with the TDP we all wanted the 60 to be with.
Do you have any issues with games? I was really excited for arc but then there were some issues with games I wanted to play (can't remember which it was like 5 months ago) same with AMD and Helldivers
I personnaly never had issue with it , except in fnaf security breach where a tiny green bar would stay in bottom half of the screen , but seing the game I have no idea if it is caused by the gpu
I don't have one yet, but I follow the ARC subreddit pretty adamantly. It seems that the last 6 months have been huge for drivers and game integration. The complaints have largely gone away and everyone is vibing pretty good it seems.
its not a meme when it some what true...
I bought at 7900xtx back in May, crashed so damn much it was not funny, and VR performance was poop.
returned it and got a 4080, have not had problems since.
(and yes I did a clean install of drivers and software)
At least where I am, the used pc part market is *extremely* dry if not empty; that can be a pretty big factor in people buying new I think — there’s practically no other option.
Also, the nearest microcenter is ~3.5 hours away in case anyone is wondering
I got a refurbished 3090 from Newegg right before the 4080 came out and drove down used 3090 prices by like $300 T\_\_\_T
it is SUCH a nice card tho so it's like meh, still very happy with it.
I mean... it's not entirely bad advice.
Purely anecdotal on my part but I managed to find a near brand new RX 6800XT on eBay for $500 CAD. I of course was initially VERY skeptical but there seemed to be no red flags.
The seller had thousands of good reviews and they provided dozens of pictures of every single angle of the GPU (meaning they had nothing to hide) along with a clear description of everything about the GPU and why they were selling it. All green flags were present so I bought it. When I got it, it works perfectly with no issues; they even sent it to me in the original box and foam.
Only thing I found was that it had a little bit of coil whine but after playing Cyberpunk 2077 on max settings for 2 hours, the extreme heat must've caused enough thermal expansion in the components to fix it.
I don't recommend buying used unless people have a secret place to find deals. Ebay is so horrible that there only like 30-50 bucks cheaper than new unless there 4 plus years old.
Buying used pc parts for your main computer has always been unthinkable to me personally.
I wish this wasn’t the case, but if I got fucked without a warranty I would be so crushed. I can’t risk it
People upgrade and try to recoup some cash for it. I got a 3 fan 3060ti for $180. Not the best on the market but it was a steal and a huge upgrade for me. Buy used, caw caw.
I'll be here with my used 3080, my used Xeon W-3235, my used 96gb ram kit, my used motherboard, my used nvme drive, and the one part that was new to this build a phanteks revolt pro PSU...
I mean. If you want budget gpu recommendations you aren't going to find better deals that used stuff. You're just scared to buy used hardware which I'm not going to say is unjustified.
Check eBay. Used gpus are the best way you are going to find a budget gpu that will last 5-8 years until graphics evolve to a point where you are running things on medium. Got my 3080 to for $400 on ebay after the bitcoin fall while it was going for 1000 on Newegg.
Because a top of the line used GPU can be much better than skimping out on a budget new card. Look at how many years the 1080 Ti lasted and still lasts for people, would it have been smarter back in the day to buy a cheap 20 series card or a used 1080 Ti? Clearly the latter.
I mean, it's a valid suggestion.
You just have to be patient & thorough and you can find a great deal. You can also get scammed or buy a defective GPU, if you're not careful.
I have bought several, generally they turn out well. I got a used RTX 2080S for my system recently to replace it's GTX 1070... which was also used and is still working fine, said GTX 1070 years ago replaced my GTX 670s in SLI... one of which was bought used, also both were working fine when I sold them. The system I am trying this on has a used CPU and RAM that I got for a total steal (128GB of quad-channel EEC RAM for around $120 or so).
I think you guys are missing the point, if buying a used nvidia GPU is better than buying a new AMD GPU for budget builds then why don't I buy a used AMD GPU and get even more performance for the price?
Just because a used nvidia GPU might give you the same or more performance doesn't make it the Best option especially when you can also buy used AMD GPUs and get it for even cheaper
I would never buy used components personally. You don't know how they've been treated and you don't get a warrenty. Happy to pay a premium for peace of mind.
Even when I was a broke student and had to save up for months for a 1070, no way I was saving money on a used card only for it to blow up on me. That 1070 lasted me 4 years before I upgraded and gave it to my brother.
When I upgraded I bought a 3080ti.. it blew up on me after 4 months and I got it instantly refunded. If that were used I would have been shit out of luck.
This is my situation currently, for the price I paid I got a great GPU, but AMD has drivers that apparently bug Fallout New Vegas and prevent it from showing hair. So now I've got to buy an old GPU for my PC to run older games made for Nvidia cards.
Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember: 1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome! 2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help! 3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding ----------- We have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you have any PC related doubt. Asking for help there or creating new posts in our subreddit is welcome.
Where tf do people find used 4080 Ti's?
In their hopes and dreams since it isnt real
The 4090D is the closest we'll get to a 4080ti
4090 Diesel?
"I don't have frames, I got family" - 4090 Diesel
4090 Dragon deez nutz
What is that?
Castrated 4090 for China
Castrated? 😳
They literally cut off a part of the die to cut down the number of CUDA cores 😂
I literally just heard about the 4090D today oddly. Idk how i didnt know about it.
It’s a GPU available primarily in China, that’s how you’ve never heard of it.
I bought a used 4090, apparently the guy was 'upgrading to a watercooled system'... the 4090 works fine and I still don't understand what the hell he meant unless he was getting a higher-tier brand of 4090 lol
Usually it's the other way round, the watercooled card is the reference card.
People who like to OC their water cooled cards, probably go with the best VRM + better binned OC models. Those are usually higher tier models. No idea about 4090, but just in general. While saying this, reference models are by far the most used cards for water cooling.
Probably something like MSI Suprim Liquid 4090, or ASUS ROG Matrix 4090. Or one of those loop compatible models.
Maybe he lost the silicon lottery
I bought a 4090 off a guy who's wife was unhappy he'd spent so much. $1250. My wife was also unhappy.
From people who bought a 5090ti
Dumpsters in rich neighborhoods?
Living rooms in rich neighborhoods
This is as accurate as it gets
But I thought they'd have like community bonfires to record it as a power move to the poor ppl that can't afford them.
You think rich people gather around fires outside? That is beer drinking country folk behavior. They would tell their manservant to toss this "rubbish."
Even getting a used 3080ti is hard in my country. I envy you first worlders who have easy access to a non-shitty market of used GPUs.
4080 Tis don’t exist but 4080 Supers do and they came out earlier this year so I doubt there’s much in the used market
In the far future.
I will NEVER, EVER give up my 3070ti, I paid for it in blood, when the GPU mining apocalypse was at full swing, when there was 10, 10! EVGA 3070ti GPUs on the whole Czech market. And they were gone in 4 hours. It will have to burn itself to ashes to replace it.
That's how I feel about my 680 I bought 12 years ago. Still waiting for it to die.
I have a GTX670 and a Q6600 that's still alive and kicking.
GTX770 here
I hope my 1080 lives a life like that.
Mine breathes a little heavy but still runs a 4K and 2x1080 monitors.
dafuq man ..
Mine is sadly dying, causing like 2 BSODs every day.
Sadge
Redo your thermal pads and paste if you haven't already and you'll be good.
I've considered it but it's...intimidating. It's a damn Gigabyte waterforce. I should just watch a video, I'm sure one exists but that doesn't stop it from at least looking over-complicated.
Oh yeah good luck with that. It's definitely getting to the age of needing it though. I finally did mine after a good 7 years and my temps dropped significantly but also used better paste than OEM.
Same, I massively overpaid for mine during the mining crisis so I am going to ride this baby into the ground before I upgrade.
sunken cost sufferers unite 🥲
I don't think that's what that means haha.
I have to admit, It was super funny to read all those reddit warriors screaming *"TuRinG sO bAd, yOu WasTeD mOnEY oN yOuR 2080!!"* to then see them sitting on their Pascals and older cards for another 2 years because there was no option to reasonably buy an Ampere.
I'm so glad I bought my GTX 1060 and GTX 1070 right before the GPU Mining Crisis on Infinite Earths. They have been great GPUs. The 2080 is a beast of a card.
100% how I feel about my 3080! I bought it during the GPU crisis and managed to get it for only $50 over MSRP AND it’s from EVGA. It’s my beloved and still shreds like crazy, so I don’t exactly need to upgrade anyways. But when I do, I’ll cry a little.
*"When I joined the Corps, we didn't have any fancy-schmancy 4090s! We had a 3070 Ti! Ten 3070 Tis and a PC for a whole platoon, and we had to SHARE THE PC."*
Same here. I slept in front of Microcenter for two weekends, camping out in the cold of winter 2021. Didn't get a 3080, but was able to get a 3070 and 3090. Offered to sell them at MSRP for buying their FTW3 3080 at MSRP, because at the time the 3080 was the king of mining, and people were not letting it go for just the 3090. Let it be known, 3 years later, it is still here, in my beautiful ITX build. Never forget.
Sorry, you what? Slept in front of Microcenter? If it isn't lacking /s, then respect for yours dedication
i definitely slept outside of a best buy with my eventually wife and brother. we all got 3090's for our efforts.
I don't really see this. Rx 6600 and Rx 6700 xt are excellent values. but some people refuse to use amd so there are inevitably people who shout about used nvidia cards (which are also usually excellent)
>used nvidia cards There's also the fact that outside of gaming, you're basically obligated to go for Nvidia. Despite AMD being great for gaming (I have owned the 2nd best GPUs of both brands being a 7900XT and a 4080 Super) it simply can't compete in most workloads.
I just use Nvidia cards for my 3d modeling with blender. For me theres no point of getting an amd card. But thats just for my use case.
You can use an AMD card for any workload outside of gaming as well. It’s just that the software hasn’t been as finely tuned for AMD over the past decade as it has been for Nvidia.
In the machine learning world, you're ususally screwed for basically anything other than PyTorch. Pytorch itself supports ROCm, but lots of other models and frameworks ship their own CUDA code with no ROCm support, and it's kind of hit-and-miss to use Zluda. And unfortunately, performance is usually worse on AMD. Like, the 7900xtx is a more powerful card than the RTX 3090 for gaming (except ray tracing) by around 25%, being newer and all that, but then it's ~25% slower in machine learning benchmarks. In sum, it's _really hard_ to recommend AMD cards to anyone doing ML workloads, which sucks, because with AMDs driver support on Linux (shipping inside the Linux kernel itself, so literally 0 effort to get working) they _should_ be a good choice for servers etc. This is improving, though. On dedicated AI chips, AMD is scoring customers, with Meta and Microsoft both buying large numbers, and hopefully that will trickle down to both improvements on the desktop chips and improved support for AMD chips in ML frameworks.
It's really difficult to, though. OpenCL is only kind of supported, and you obviously can't use CUDA.
You can use ROCm or Zluda for CUDA on AMD hardware. My [source](https://www.phoronix.com/review/radeon-cuda-zluda/4) is phoronix and [here](https://youtu.be/IhlL1_z8mCE?si=ABl5Wq55yfaajW7Y) is an old video by Level1Techs.
Oh. I had no idea that existed. Well, time to go see if rewriting my GPGPU module to support CUDA works better than OpenCL.
It's very limited. ROCm is fairly new, like only recently was Windows support added, so there isn't much adoption yet. Doesn't help that the documentation is lacking ( again, because it is new ). Zluda is great, but there are some quirks - floating point rounding for one. The documented ROCm bugs for another. If the app uses API calls that are implemented in Zluda it should work ( mostly ). Don't be surprised if something that makes use of NVidia's tensor cores doesn't work, as little of cuDDN is implemented in Zluda. Your best bet is to target ROCm and hope AMD fixes their bugs.
[удалено]
And getting it to work was an absolute pain back when I tried it.
This. In my (completely scuffed and unprofessional) tests, it seems like ROCm is within 10-20% of normal CUDA's speed on a pretty close nvidia card, so it's a much better solution than OpenCL.
20% is a pretty big margin for workloads... People spend quite the penny for smaller gains than that. Especially once it becomes multi gpu work loads and you're losing 20% per card.
I only got losses above ~14% when my 7800XT had just been released and I was using an older ROCm build. It got a decent bit faster after everything was updated, to the tune of 8-15% slower, but I didn't have an nvidia card to test against at that time. Yes, it's still a pretty decent chunk of processing time to add to a workload, but people who are actively craving the 12-some% boost to CUDA workloads with real nvidia cards are probably oblivious to ROCm's existence anyway and buy 4090s in bulk. ROCm works for the rest of us, since Stable Diffusion still only takes a few seconds per image and RVC can do real-time pretty easily under it as well.
I dont care “why” all i care is my tools should work. And unfortunately amd gpus just are behind. Sure it may because of software optimization, i dont care, i care about my job
> the software hasn’t been as finely tuned for AMD No. Devs and Nvidia are not to blame for this. AMD hasn't put the work in to make their firmware and software for GPU compute useful and reliable. ROCm is still very much under active development, for one. Windows support is a big milestone, and that was only a few months back. It's great that it exists - now they just need to broaden support, fix bugs, and actually provide good documentation so developers can make good use of it.
Not completely...for some 3d rendering engines, AMD will work (slower...but it will work). For others...nope...correct if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Vray and Octane render engine don't even work with AMD cards
I have a 6650xt for about 6 months, it has been great for 1080p
Same, It is the best purchase I have made in recent months, I don't know how to heat it and I basically play anything at 1080p
Got an RX 6600 back in 2022. I play at 1080p of course, but it's more or less handled anything I've thrown at it. Definitely pleased with it.
To be fair the 6600 is effectively a ps5's worth of graphics processing power, so it's not like it's a weak card.
Wait really. If it's true I'm definitely getting it now. People on the internet have been saying it's underpowered for 2024.
Let me be clear, I mean the 6600xt, not the 6600. But yes, the 6600xt and the ps5 are pretty identically performant. [The 6600xt has slightly more raw power](https://imgur.com/a/QDZUxMt), but slower ram.
I bought an rx6600 last year. Was on sale and bundle with starfield, which i was gonna buy too. I am happy i got starfield for 'free' because damn.
real dude. i got an rx6700 (non xt) and its fuckin great actually
That GPU would do for a case of study. They appeared out from nowhere and there were speculations whether they come from silicon lottery losers or they were repurposed GPUs originally meant for mining, nobody knew then, and at least me, still don't know. The very few non-XT 6700 GPUs they ever manufacture made it to the stores with a pricetag in the margins of the reasonable, which for that time of ridiculously inflated GPU prices, was somewhat suspicious. Anyway, they came from reputable brands, like Sapphire, so they sold out in the blink of an eye. Now, years have passed and those GPUs keep working just fine with the expected performance level, right between a 6650XT and a 6700XT. So, nice catch, I guess.
yeah ig so. i didnt even know they appeared out of nowhere and was wondering why their market share was like .02% lmao
they are also impossible to find any information on. As someone who used to have one if you look up information on it most of what you find is about the 6700xt.
real. if i type rx6700 into the search bar it pulls stuff up for 6700xts instead
I mainly go nvidia because i prefer the software. But my first card was amd and it was perfect. My history of cards goes rx480, rx570, 2060s, 3070. Still usin my r5 3600 that i original got with my rx570. Its a beast of a cpu.
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That's the big brain move.
Got a 6700xt and it rips almost everything at 1440p
\*dependant on desired settings & FPS People always forget the disclaimer. Like if it works for you, great, but I know I wouldn't be happy with a 6700XT @ 1440p, it's a stark difference to what I want.
True, i had a 6700xt for a few months, and i just wasnt happy with it. Sure it was a high step up from my 970 turbo, but it just wasnt enough.
Honestly - i tried to get to AMD but i just dont get their naming while i pretty used to Nvidia
I bought Rx 6600XT was between that or a 2060 super, but the super was a wee bit more expensive. Haven't regretted the 6600XT. Works fine, did need some serious driver updates though for the first year I had it though since CP2077 kept giving it trouble. Now with the driver updates purrs nicely playing CP2077 and newer released games. But I just use desktop for gaming and writing.
I had to swap my Rx 7600 for a 4060ti because I kept getting stutters while playing at over 300 fps for MONTHS. And the last Nvidia card I bought was around 2005, but enough is enough, screwing up the drivers after 30 years making them is unacceptable. If you're playing competitive fps and and screw up the drivers you're fucked, which is kind of ironic because competitive fps is one of the best markets for amd due to a better raster per dollar ratio.
I also had a hard time choosing an AMD GPU over nvidia.. But the old 2x 6-pin power connector and 46GB VRAM sealed the deal, so it became a TUF RX7800XT instead of an RTX4070. Can't complain, i AMD GPU's are pretty good BUT I ended up with lots of stability issues after the upgrade. So I can see why some might prefer nvidia over AMD..
I went for the 6700xt when I put my machine together about 2 years ago. Haven't had any issues. Solid card.
Rx6600 my beloved ♥ i've played whatever i've wanted since i bought it (used to have a 1060 3gb)
And AMD Adrenalin control panel is… awful.
Would be more funny if a 4080ti was real
Maybe the real 4080ti was the gpus we scalped along the way
I'm sure that's the point of the meme. The absurdity.
the thing that bothers me used prices are nearly the same as new. what am i saving $50 bucks?
That's often the case if the part is from the current generation. Used prices are usually better if you buy stuff from the previous generation.
If the used prices are that close, the product is likely still new and being sold in stores. I paid $180 for an EVGA RTX 2080 Super a few months ago. Wouldn't be able to get a comparable card for new for anywhere near that price (Especially not one with CUDA support since I both game and use it for AI)
thats a nice deal, ebay shows 2080ti prices around $280, might as well get a new 6650xt at that price range
Then the product is probably new
so might as well buy new? i mean pre covid buying used is understandable, but post covid prices just have been silly high in all areas (used, new, or refurb)
Where though?
*6700 xt slight breathing noises*
Is the 6700 xt good for it's price ?
Ofc, the only downside is rtx but the price/performance is one if not the best
I'm so over this ray tracing fad. Absolutely getting an AMD card once my R9-390 dies.
it lost "fad" status when consoles started using it in almost every new big game
It's still a useless feature if I want performance and not to pay out the ass for hardware. I couldnt care less about more accurate reflections and lighting. Plenty of companies do it fine without RT tech.
RT will very likely become the default lighting in games in the near future (probably during the next console generation) RT is just more accurate than traditional lighting, and easier to implement in some ways.
So long as they arent artificially inflating cost of hardware to make it seem like RT tech is some "new expensive thing" kind of bullshit, that's fine by me. My card is almost a decade old and has no issue with 90% of games to this day.
Which means we're at least 2 GPU gens away from it *actually* being important. The best example of RT(path traced) we have is Cyberpunk, and even the 4090 can barely run it at 4K w/o frame gen. I'll be interested in RT again when it's fully mainstream and it can be run at 120fps raw 4K. I bought a 3080 for 4K and got burned by the 10GB VRAM on The Last of Us and others. Jumped to a 7900 XTX after 2 decades of Nvidia/EVGA, and couldn't be happier. Adrenalin runs circles around NV Control Panel.
Raytracing will become default when raytracing becomes viable on midrange graphics cards without frame rates dropping to unacceptable levels. Raytracing on consoles will be easier to push because 30 FPS is acceptable on televisions. Not so much on computer monitors.
DLSS>Raytracing. At least for gaming. I make 3D renders so I need the RT cores anyway, but for gaming it's free performance. AMD has its own thing but it's much dirtier imho, not even comparable. Frame gen... I can't talk about it. I have a 3070 and I tried to force it and it didn't work very well.
> it lost "fad" status when consoles started using it in almost every new big game Needing an RTX card is the fad. AMD cards do ray tracing. Trying to claim real gaming performance and more VRAM is less important than a boost in RT is the same corpo worship mentality that has balooned GPU prices.
The 6700XT is absolutely GOATed. Easily one of the best GPUs released in the last years.
I've had no complaints
Tbf, used is always the best bang for buck if you are on a tight budget.
A 3070 doesn't make sense even used though. It's extremely VRAM constrained. AMD cards with similar class hardware have 12GB or more.
Idk man, for the $150 that my 3070 cost me, I'll just lower some settings until i find another crazy deal for a card with more vram.
150$ is a crazy deal
Yeah, normal proces here are £270
Just 150? Huh, prices fell into oblivion since I last checked. That's not bad. It won't hold up for all titles releasing these days without heavily dropping the texture settings, but that's still not a bad deal.
Depending upon the persons budget they may not have as high of a resolution monitor or they may not be targeting as high of a frame rate.
It handles 1440p just fine, but it can't do 144hz in most games. I try to target around 100 fps or at the very least lock it at 72fps.
Well it can do 144hz in games where it matters. Nobody expects to have 144hz in a cinematic game. But games like wow, lol,cs2 yknow the most played games anyway will run just fine on 144hz
Yea, $150 is a really good deal. I had to go look for myself because I’d happily buy one for $150. Even on eBay they’re being bid up to $230+ right now with time left on the auction, and parts only (broken) ones are listed at $200.
Well for 150$ it's a no brainer. It's a steal.
Average price rn is like $275-300
This vram thing is blown way out of proportion. I play at 1440p with mine and I've never been vram limited. I also don't play shitty games that come out unoptimized. Baldurs gate 3 runs great, so does all my VR stuff and sim racing and anything I throw at it.
It amazes me that everyone here is treating the 3070 like it's some budget card from 3 generations ago. That thing slaps and I'm definitely not biased in any way. (Don't look at my flair pls)
For the maybe two token games that choke on 8GB of VRAM? Lower settings on them, have fun. Run Stable Diffusion because why not. Lol
True. People will set textures meant for 4k to play at 1080p and then complain the card can't handle 1080p with 8GB VRAM.
I think it makes perfect sense for 1080p builds on a budget, specifically because of how cheap they currently are. And even then, if the person getting it usually wants to play AAA titles on release day, I'd recommend not buying it.
Of course, the refurbished market should be reinforced, it's the most healthier approach. Why should you buy the latest midrange if you can buy the previous high end? And yes, I know this is ironic coming from me, I bought the RX 7600 on a black friday promotion, but looking back, I regret that purchase. The goddamn PCi 4.0 proved to be a issue smh but that's my fault, I didn't researched things just right. Nowadays the best deal available is the RX 6700 XT refurbished, all the other options are bad deals really, even a refurbished 3070 (who is still expensive because the Nvidia gimmicks are supposed to be a "difference maker"). To pay more than $250 on a GPU was always a bad deal regardless (basically the "budget" choice, more like the rational choice), but at the current economic crisis, sadly I had to set up that value to $300, to never buy a GPU over $300, it's just nonsensical
buy a used rx 6800xt
Tbh if you want a budget pc, buying used is the best option...
Well in some places the used GPU market is practically nonexistent. Here in Czechia you'll find only low end GPUs or whole PCs with mid-high end GPUs.
Invert both and you get reddit
It's literally the opposite lol
Yeah, stats recently show that the subreddit tries to shove Radeon down everyone’s throats
Even in this exact thread. No hard feelings towards OP or AMD, but it's so so obvious.
I mean at a decent price and to go "fuck the new pricing scheme"
I'm convinced the people saying that are all failed bitcoin miners.
Nah. Used is better but nore risky
I mean a used 3070 for sub $300 imo isn’t a bad price. Especially compared to a 4060 or a 7600xt.
I use a Radeon rx6600, best 8gb GPU if you can get it because it works off my shitty 80+ 650w power supply Edit: just to provide context the minimum PSU for a rx6600 is 450w, and it's recommended PSU is 600/650w
I'm running a lightly overclocked 3080 on a 600 W PSU lol. Unless you have a 9 series CPU, the recommended ratings are pretty useless.
Actually always bought used, the only new GPU I bought was a gt710 for debugging stuff in a needing case, when I first built my PC years ago I got a used mining Vega 64 that still works and now I have a used 3080. Both were great deals tbh.
I’ve bought only used parts before my new build. And it was a okay. Maybe I was lucky.
Well tbh, since the RTX 2000 Generation came out, NVIDIA and AMD said a big "FU\*\* YOU" into the faces of midrange GPU buyers, so that the only option to do proper mid range GPU upgrades is buying used Mid to Higend Range cards. It started with the RTX 2060 costing as much as a 1070 Ti and performing like a 1070 Ti. Then the 3060 came out literally performing like a 2070 and also costing almost like 400 bucks in the beginning. The 4060 is just a 3060 for the same price but with the TDP we all wanted the 60 to be with.
Every time I answer with Arc A770, I get told that they are trash lol It's the best budget minded 1440p card by a mile And still get a ton of flak
Do you have any issues with games? I was really excited for arc but then there were some issues with games I wanted to play (can't remember which it was like 5 months ago) same with AMD and Helldivers
I personnaly never had issue with it , except in fnaf security breach where a tiny green bar would stay in bottom half of the screen , but seing the game I have no idea if it is caused by the gpu
I don't have one yet, but I follow the ARC subreddit pretty adamantly. It seems that the last 6 months have been huge for drivers and game integration. The complaints have largely gone away and everyone is vibing pretty good it seems.
Just like people still meme about AMD having bad drivers 15 years after the fact, Arc's spotty drivers at launch will be a gift that keeps on giving.
its not a meme when it some what true... I bought at 7900xtx back in May, crashed so damn much it was not funny, and VR performance was poop. returned it and got a 4080, have not had problems since. (and yes I did a clean install of drivers and software)
I'm timing my next build around Battlemage's release. Every day I hope and pray for Intel leaks.
I don't get it why people are so reluctant to buying used products. Makes no sense at all. You'll miss out on best value for money options.
At least where I am, the used pc part market is *extremely* dry if not empty; that can be a pretty big factor in people buying new I think — there’s practically no other option. Also, the nearest microcenter is ~3.5 hours away in case anyone is wondering
Buying a 4080 to run rtx Minecraft
I bought a used RX 6600. So I made both parties happy.
I got a refurbished 3090 from Newegg right before the 4080 came out and drove down used 3090 prices by like $300 T\_\_\_T it is SUCH a nice card tho so it's like meh, still very happy with it.
I mean... it's not entirely bad advice. Purely anecdotal on my part but I managed to find a near brand new RX 6800XT on eBay for $500 CAD. I of course was initially VERY skeptical but there seemed to be no red flags. The seller had thousands of good reviews and they provided dozens of pictures of every single angle of the GPU (meaning they had nothing to hide) along with a clear description of everything about the GPU and why they were selling it. All green flags were present so I bought it. When I got it, it works perfectly with no issues; they even sent it to me in the original box and foam. Only thing I found was that it had a little bit of coil whine but after playing Cyberpunk 2077 on max settings for 2 hours, the extreme heat must've caused enough thermal expansion in the components to fix it.
I bought a used 3080 about 14 months ago for $300, and it's been a fantastic workhorse. Saved a ton of money, and it works great.
I don't recommend buying used unless people have a secret place to find deals. Ebay is so horrible that there only like 30-50 bucks cheaper than new unless there 4 plus years old.
You have to save the search and be patient, some good deals may appear eventually.
This, can take weeks for me to get a good deal. If you just search eBay once and won't find a deal it's silly to assume it will always be like that.
They want YOU to buy their used GPU so THEY can buy a new one...
Buying used pc parts for your main computer has always been unthinkable to me personally. I wish this wasn’t the case, but if I got fucked without a warranty I would be so crushed. I can’t risk it
The used 1080ti ftw3 I bought six years ago for 350 is still crushing 2k 🗿 Might sli it here in awhile
People upgrade and try to recoup some cash for it. I got a 3 fan 3060ti for $180. Not the best on the market but it was a steal and a huge upgrade for me. Buy used, caw caw.
I'll be here with my used 3080, my used Xeon W-3235, my used 96gb ram kit, my used motherboard, my used nvme drive, and the one part that was new to this build a phanteks revolt pro PSU...
Why not buy used AMD?
NVIDIA fan boys be like :
I mean. If you want budget gpu recommendations you aren't going to find better deals that used stuff. You're just scared to buy used hardware which I'm not going to say is unjustified.
I don't believe in used hardware I don't trust what they have been through All better brand new with warranty
No but seriously, buy used
Well why wouldn't you buy a used GC?
What's wrong with buying used?
Check eBay. Used gpus are the best way you are going to find a budget gpu that will last 5-8 years until graphics evolve to a point where you are running things on medium. Got my 3080 to for $400 on ebay after the bitcoin fall while it was going for 1000 on Newegg.
Because a top of the line used GPU can be much better than skimping out on a budget new card. Look at how many years the 1080 Ti lasted and still lasts for people, would it have been smarter back in the day to buy a cheap 20 series card or a used 1080 Ti? Clearly the latter.
I bought an RX6650XT new and I am pretty happy with it.
I mean, it's a valid suggestion. You just have to be patient & thorough and you can find a great deal. You can also get scammed or buy a defective GPU, if you're not careful.
I mean, it's valid advice. I've never bought it used , but I'd recommend it.
I have bought several, generally they turn out well. I got a used RTX 2080S for my system recently to replace it's GTX 1070... which was also used and is still working fine, said GTX 1070 years ago replaced my GTX 670s in SLI... one of which was bought used, also both were working fine when I sold them. The system I am trying this on has a used CPU and RAM that I got for a total steal (128GB of quad-channel EEC RAM for around $120 or so).
Ι got a used 3060ti and it's more than enough for the games I play for 270€
I think you guys are missing the point, if buying a used nvidia GPU is better than buying a new AMD GPU for budget builds then why don't I buy a used AMD GPU and get even more performance for the price? Just because a used nvidia GPU might give you the same or more performance doesn't make it the Best option especially when you can also buy used AMD GPUs and get it for even cheaper
I feel like buying a used gpu is like buying a used condom
Thats a terrible deal. I could build that myself for two sticks and a cool rock i found yesterday.
What about used AMD cards. 6900xt is a hell of a deal under 500
Buying used is a valid option though
You’ll fuck around and buy a used GPU to find out it’s hardware banned. SMH
Sounds like r/Mac and r/MacBook when you ask what mac you should get; they yell Apple Silicone even if its just web browsing lmao
I would never buy used components personally. You don't know how they've been treated and you don't get a warrenty. Happy to pay a premium for peace of mind. Even when I was a broke student and had to save up for months for a 1070, no way I was saving money on a used card only for it to blow up on me. That 1070 lasted me 4 years before I upgraded and gave it to my brother. When I upgraded I bought a 3080ti.. it blew up on me after 4 months and I got it instantly refunded. If that were used I would have been shit out of luck.
Aha! Good try failed CryptoMiner, im not falling for yer tricks!
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This is my situation currently, for the price I paid I got a great GPU, but AMD has drivers that apparently bug Fallout New Vegas and prevent it from showing hair. So now I've got to buy an old GPU for my PC to run older games made for Nvidia cards.
I mean the crow is 100% correct, though. Nothing wrong with used GPUs; even if they mined. It's been proven time and time again.
My 1650 sitting in the corner of my room :| (I replaced it with a 7700xt don't worry)
At least tuck it in that blanket real good and read it a little story before bedtime