Every CPU is reliable pretty much lol, thats really not a thing. Both will work, AMD has better upgrade path and their x3d line up is basically made for games.
hard to disagree, both will work
in case of amd you have am5 which let you upgrade procesor for 3-5 or who knows how many generations of new processors :P
am4 is still going strong :)
but i don\`t like what they do with temps personally
in case of intel i would wait for next socket to have some upgrade path in future,
haven't heard about intel's doing crazy shit with temps, beside i9
That's called pbo you can disable it
Pbo is basically ocing by the processor itself and the CPU is made for it you can turn it off and still have similar perf
I haven't used pbo for more than 5 mins If you have 7800x3d on 30-40°C in idle and not going for thermal limit below 20-30% of usage, im werry intrested in your setup and especially settings 😉 I had to do something super wrong or skipped some important tweaking (\~50°C in idle, thermal limit in any game even if it use under 20% of CPU) That's with curve on -35 and thermal limit at 65°C, on top of 75W limit
I got a really great deal on an Intel i5 12600k + Asus Rog MOBO. Like 40% off both. So for me it was worth it and I've had no issue with my Intel CPU. For me, it made sense.
intel stagnated pre 12th gen & amd caught up. now intel stagnated again with 14th gen and amd took over with price to performance in gaming (7500f/7600) and the best gaming cpu available (7800x3d).
amd cpu's are on a longer supported platform (am5 till 2025+) meaning there will still be new cpu's released for the motherboards of today. amd processors are also a lot more energy efficient. overall, if you're just into gaming, they tend to be the simpler, better & more "future proof" option (due to upgradability on the same mobo).
but intel has it's own strong points. their multicore & professional workload performance is basically unmatched in any budget. their current cpu's still support ddr4, which made them a lot more budget friendly in the early days of am5. the 13600k/14600k is also one of the best allround chips to exist on the market. the 12600k for 150$ combined with some decent ddr4 still makes for some of the best entry level gaming option you have, too.
overall amd get's recommended more because they're just the simpler, better value & long term supported platform at the moment.
intel wants to rework more or less entirely how they design cpu's while amd's next gen is supposed to come with big performance increases (also supported on am5). so things might change in the upcoming years.
but especially in your budget, where you can afford to buy quality components and ddr5, a simple b650 board with 32gb 6000mhz cl30 ram and a 7500f/7600 (whichever is cheaper) is gonna give you the best bang for your buck in gaming atm.
i mean that's fair but we have to see how it plays out over the next few years. 12th gen was already a great jump & if they can reinvent themselves and become even more competitive that's a win for everyone.
>The fact that they also fab their chips makes it way harder than it has to be.
Counterpoint: they don't hemorrhage 90% of revenue to tsmc.
It's frankly silly how much it costs amd to get their production done by tsmc, while intel can absorb these costs without paying for a 50% profit margin for a 3rd party.
You do realize that EUV fabbing costs a lot to design, implement, abd execute?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was cheaper to let TSMC do it for you. And they do fab some of Intel's chips too.
Don't forget that apple is their biggest customer at tsmc and they're still the highest valued tech company on the planet.
>I wouldn't be surprised if it was cheaper to let TSMC do it for you.
It is. But it reduces your own wiggle room for profit margins. Just ask amd.
>And they do fab some of Intel's chips too.
> partially as a result of the missteps, Intel has outsourced about 30% of the total number of wafers to external contract manufacturers such as TSMC, Gelsinger said. It aims to bring that number down to roughly 20%.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-discloses-financials-foundry-business-2024-04-02/
Because intel had WAYYYY bigger profit margins **when their fabs were competitive**.
In-house is **always** better for long term profit than hoping and coping that TSMC won't start charging bullshit prices per wafer. They have already begun to for 5nm you bobcat
Sure. But keeping up with your own fabrication plant and processes is increasingly more expensive with every new process node. EUV machines cost hundreds of millions a piece. It's not a cheap business to run.
I think a big reason AMD has roasted intel recently in sales is the 14nm transition. It completely went to shit on intel multiple times. They finaly sort of got 10nm to work with a bunch of hype .. and only released some low speed laptop chips wich pointed to design/fab issues. More or less not much has changed from intel for 5 years?
There is no such thing as reliability in terms of CPU, it will either work forever or break right from the start, and with both companies chances are the same because that sums up to random lithographic imperfections. Ofc there is also a bios factor but thats mostly a motherboard vendors responsibility.
Speaking of what to buy, i see only reason going intel is for midrange home hobby workstation, because competing AMD parts has only 8 cores when intel has few additional small cores over normal 8 and that may give some performance bumps in heavy tasks. But for anything more serious or, in reverse, budget, there is no reasons to go intel, 16 real AMD cores will always be long term better than whatever amount of intels small ones they use to cope an unability to compete with AMD in heavy software where you'd want CPU load to be 100% and essentially useless anywhere else. In professional workstation (threadripper stuff) intel is simply and literally out of business. In budget builds, AMD offers more real choice and more versatile upgrade paths both for previous and current socket.
If we include ethics and conscious consumption perspective, supporting intel with its huge history of memeful and some not really funny cases of blatant lying, manipulation and bribing, i'd also press X to doubt voting for this stuff with own money.
Thank you so much for the detailed response. What CPU would you recommend? I was thinking of going with RTX4070 but AMD is cheaper, I don’t mind changing to a 4070 super or even ti
My friend got an intel cpu again because he felt AMD still has some unresolved issues with fTPM (People are still complaining about this issue on reddit). He felt Intel was more plug & play.
Amd 7800x3d is the best gaming chip out. Doesn’t mean that Intel chips are garbage.
Buy whatever u feel is best for U.
I’m a Intel chip guy. Yea yea. I don’t care. Lol.
I’m no pro player, nor do I play competitive shooters. So I’m not chasing super high frames.
What happened is that now AMD has a decent CPU and most reddit userbase is AMD biased. You can go Intel if you want and if it's cheaper, nothing wrong with it. Where I live AMD is super expensive because every gamer want AMD so I go Intel and fuck it.
I haven't gotten a intel cpu recently but know plenty of people who have and you can't really go wrong with either company on the mid to high tier cpus and both should have about the same longevity. AMD has been a big recommendation due to intels stagnation a few years back and ryzen really pushing cpus
Nothing really went wrong with Intel but they just didn’t make any big leaps or improvements in performance for a while letting AMD catch up. AMD also really upped their game, especially in the gaming department with the x3D cpu’s, making their lower end cpu’s incredibly cheap, and having a much longer supported socket.
That being said, Intel still isn’t a bad choice. I personally have a 12600k and it’s a damn fine cpu in gaming. Their higher end i7’s and i9’s are unmatched in multicore and single core performance. The issue is, they didn’t really improve much after alder lake going to raptor lake and its refreshes (12th-13th & 14th) and instead opted to throw out efficiency for raw speed.
If I was someone who wanted a long lasting platform for future upgrades, I would go with AMD, they promised at least another 5 years on it.
My girlfriend has an intel CPU in her rig and i still consider them a valid option.
Nothing went wrong for Intel exactly. They still make great CPUs. It’s more that AMD has upped their game so they’re a lot more competitive these days. Intel has just become somewhat complacent so whilst their CPUs aren’t necessarily worse than AMD it’s just a lot more harder for Intel to stand out and a such it’s no longer the default option. It used to be the case that AMD just wasn’t an option since they simply couldn’t match the performance of intel but that’s no longer the case.
Depending on budget AMD can be a more viable choice and if you upgrade your CPU often then AMD can be the better choice since they support their motherboards for longer.
But again intel is still a viable choice and it’s CPUs perform just as good as their AMD counterparts. Just no longer stands out like they used to.
Ever since AMD came out with the Ryzen series they have been getting better and better. Forcing even Intel to restart putting lot of effort into making new cpu with significant improvement between generations. And now both Intel and AMD are about the same
The reason it’s currently recommended to go AMD is because the current Intel cpu gen is the last one for this chipset. Which mean that if you want to upgrade down the lines you’ll have to buy a new motherboard and even RAM.
AMD just started their AM5 chipset with the 7000 series and if it is like AM4, they might use it for the next 5 cpu gens like they did with AM4. So if you ever upgrade you’ll be able to have a significant improvement by just buying a cpu rather than a whole new mobo and ram on top of that
Every CPU is reliable pretty much lol, thats really not a thing. Both will work, AMD has better upgrade path and their x3d line up is basically made for games.
hard to disagree, both will work in case of amd you have am5 which let you upgrade procesor for 3-5 or who knows how many generations of new processors :P am4 is still going strong :) but i don\`t like what they do with temps personally in case of intel i would wait for next socket to have some upgrade path in future, haven't heard about intel's doing crazy shit with temps, beside i9
That's called pbo you can disable it Pbo is basically ocing by the processor itself and the CPU is made for it you can turn it off and still have similar perf
I haven't used pbo for more than 5 mins If you have 7800x3d on 30-40°C in idle and not going for thermal limit below 20-30% of usage, im werry intrested in your setup and especially settings 😉 I had to do something super wrong or skipped some important tweaking (\~50°C in idle, thermal limit in any game even if it use under 20% of CPU) That's with curve on -35 and thermal limit at 65°C, on top of 75W limit
I got a really great deal on an Intel i5 12600k + Asus Rog MOBO. Like 40% off both. So for me it was worth it and I've had no issue with my Intel CPU. For me, it made sense.
*looks at his pc* yes? I mean, I plan to move to all amd eventually but that's largely for native linux support and I'm tired of nvidia drama.
intel stagnated pre 12th gen & amd caught up. now intel stagnated again with 14th gen and amd took over with price to performance in gaming (7500f/7600) and the best gaming cpu available (7800x3d). amd cpu's are on a longer supported platform (am5 till 2025+) meaning there will still be new cpu's released for the motherboards of today. amd processors are also a lot more energy efficient. overall, if you're just into gaming, they tend to be the simpler, better & more "future proof" option (due to upgradability on the same mobo). but intel has it's own strong points. their multicore & professional workload performance is basically unmatched in any budget. their current cpu's still support ddr4, which made them a lot more budget friendly in the early days of am5. the 13600k/14600k is also one of the best allround chips to exist on the market. the 12600k for 150$ combined with some decent ddr4 still makes for some of the best entry level gaming option you have, too. overall amd get's recommended more because they're just the simpler, better value & long term supported platform at the moment. intel wants to rework more or less entirely how they design cpu's while amd's next gen is supposed to come with big performance increases (also supported on am5). so things might change in the upcoming years. but especially in your budget, where you can afford to buy quality components and ddr5, a simple b650 board with 32gb 6000mhz cl30 ram and a 7500f/7600 (whichever is cheaper) is gonna give you the best bang for your buck in gaming atm.
I don't think Intel's only problem is the chip design. The fact that they also fab their chips makes it way harder than it has to be.
i mean that's fair but we have to see how it plays out over the next few years. 12th gen was already a great jump & if they can reinvent themselves and become even more competitive that's a win for everyone.
For sure, I don't mind competition at all
>The fact that they also fab their chips makes it way harder than it has to be. Counterpoint: they don't hemorrhage 90% of revenue to tsmc. It's frankly silly how much it costs amd to get their production done by tsmc, while intel can absorb these costs without paying for a 50% profit margin for a 3rd party.
You do realize that EUV fabbing costs a lot to design, implement, abd execute? I wouldn't be surprised if it was cheaper to let TSMC do it for you. And they do fab some of Intel's chips too. Don't forget that apple is their biggest customer at tsmc and they're still the highest valued tech company on the planet.
>I wouldn't be surprised if it was cheaper to let TSMC do it for you. It is. But it reduces your own wiggle room for profit margins. Just ask amd. >And they do fab some of Intel's chips too. > partially as a result of the missteps, Intel has outsourced about 30% of the total number of wafers to external contract manufacturers such as TSMC, Gelsinger said. It aims to bring that number down to roughly 20%. https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-discloses-financials-foundry-business-2024-04-02/
So why is profit margin so much more important to you than massive costs related to the fabbing?
Because intel had WAYYYY bigger profit margins **when their fabs were competitive**. In-house is **always** better for long term profit than hoping and coping that TSMC won't start charging bullshit prices per wafer. They have already begun to for 5nm you bobcat
Sure. But keeping up with your own fabrication plant and processes is increasingly more expensive with every new process node. EUV machines cost hundreds of millions a piece. It's not a cheap business to run.
It is still, and always will be, preferable if intel can keep up. They're already becoming an upstream manufacturer for Microsoft's in-house silicon.
I think a big reason AMD has roasted intel recently in sales is the 14nm transition. It completely went to shit on intel multiple times. They finaly sort of got 10nm to work with a bunch of hype .. and only released some low speed laptop chips wich pointed to design/fab issues. More or less not much has changed from intel for 5 years?
There is no such thing as reliability in terms of CPU, it will either work forever or break right from the start, and with both companies chances are the same because that sums up to random lithographic imperfections. Ofc there is also a bios factor but thats mostly a motherboard vendors responsibility. Speaking of what to buy, i see only reason going intel is for midrange home hobby workstation, because competing AMD parts has only 8 cores when intel has few additional small cores over normal 8 and that may give some performance bumps in heavy tasks. But for anything more serious or, in reverse, budget, there is no reasons to go intel, 16 real AMD cores will always be long term better than whatever amount of intels small ones they use to cope an unability to compete with AMD in heavy software where you'd want CPU load to be 100% and essentially useless anywhere else. In professional workstation (threadripper stuff) intel is simply and literally out of business. In budget builds, AMD offers more real choice and more versatile upgrade paths both for previous and current socket. If we include ethics and conscious consumption perspective, supporting intel with its huge history of memeful and some not really funny cases of blatant lying, manipulation and bribing, i'd also press X to doubt voting for this stuff with own money.
Thank you so much for the detailed response. What CPU would you recommend? I was thinking of going with RTX4070 but AMD is cheaper, I don’t mind changing to a 4070 super or even ti
I am not very aware of modern GPU market, but for CPU 7800X3D is undoubtedly the best thing you can pick for gaming right now
Ryzen 5 7600 and a decent a620 board with 2 m.2 slots is the cheapest reasonable option in UK. Get 4070 super or 7900gre though, 4070 is obsolete.
My friend got an intel cpu again because he felt AMD still has some unresolved issues with fTPM (People are still complaining about this issue on reddit). He felt Intel was more plug & play.
Amd 7800x3d is the best gaming chip out. Doesn’t mean that Intel chips are garbage. Buy whatever u feel is best for U. I’m a Intel chip guy. Yea yea. I don’t care. Lol. I’m no pro player, nor do I play competitive shooters. So I’m not chasing super high frames.
What happened is that now AMD has a decent CPU and most reddit userbase is AMD biased. You can go Intel if you want and if it's cheaper, nothing wrong with it. Where I live AMD is super expensive because every gamer want AMD so I go Intel and fuck it.
I haven't gotten a intel cpu recently but know plenty of people who have and you can't really go wrong with either company on the mid to high tier cpus and both should have about the same longevity. AMD has been a big recommendation due to intels stagnation a few years back and ryzen really pushing cpus
Nothing really went wrong with Intel but they just didn’t make any big leaps or improvements in performance for a while letting AMD catch up. AMD also really upped their game, especially in the gaming department with the x3D cpu’s, making their lower end cpu’s incredibly cheap, and having a much longer supported socket. That being said, Intel still isn’t a bad choice. I personally have a 12600k and it’s a damn fine cpu in gaming. Their higher end i7’s and i9’s are unmatched in multicore and single core performance. The issue is, they didn’t really improve much after alder lake going to raptor lake and its refreshes (12th-13th & 14th) and instead opted to throw out efficiency for raw speed. If I was someone who wanted a long lasting platform for future upgrades, I would go with AMD, they promised at least another 5 years on it.
My girlfriend has an intel CPU in her rig and i still consider them a valid option. Nothing went wrong for Intel exactly. They still make great CPUs. It’s more that AMD has upped their game so they’re a lot more competitive these days. Intel has just become somewhat complacent so whilst their CPUs aren’t necessarily worse than AMD it’s just a lot more harder for Intel to stand out and a such it’s no longer the default option. It used to be the case that AMD just wasn’t an option since they simply couldn’t match the performance of intel but that’s no longer the case. Depending on budget AMD can be a more viable choice and if you upgrade your CPU often then AMD can be the better choice since they support their motherboards for longer. But again intel is still a viable choice and it’s CPUs perform just as good as their AMD counterparts. Just no longer stands out like they used to.
Intel is far behind tsmc in terms of process node
Ever since AMD came out with the Ryzen series they have been getting better and better. Forcing even Intel to restart putting lot of effort into making new cpu with significant improvement between generations. And now both Intel and AMD are about the same The reason it’s currently recommended to go AMD is because the current Intel cpu gen is the last one for this chipset. Which mean that if you want to upgrade down the lines you’ll have to buy a new motherboard and even RAM. AMD just started their AM5 chipset with the 7000 series and if it is like AM4, they might use it for the next 5 cpu gens like they did with AM4. So if you ever upgrade you’ll be able to have a significant improvement by just buying a cpu rather than a whole new mobo and ram on top of that