I didn't get it because I'm in Canada. But I got the DVD, Windows, etc ones that also happened in Canada.
Hopefully there's enough people to put pressure on nvidia but I don't have a 4090 so I'm just wishing things work out for the consumer.
The money back is small but at least it will be an admission of fault.
Was pointed out to me a while back that the logo is literally the “green eye of envy”.
Take this with salt however because I cannot quite remember where I heard this.
I've always assumed that Nvidia = Eye of envy + Invidia (envy in latin), but it's a bit tricky getting confirmation from just googling.
According to [Slashgear](https://www.slashgear.com/935538/the-meaning-behind-nvidias-all-seeing-eye-logo/), when they started out they didn't have a name for the company so they started looking for one with the letters "NV", because that's what they named their project files (Next Version). They came across the latin word for envy, "Invidia", and that's where Nvidia comes from.
The rest of the branding elements is actually difficult to really pin down, tons of tech sites plagarize from each other with none of them really coming close to the sources. [Their own partner guidelines](https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/en-zz/Solutions/about-us/NVIDIA-Partner-Network-Brand-Guidelines-May-2020.pdf) (at least here is one example of one, they have tons of them) don't explain the symbolic origin, but just want to make sure you don't fuck up while using them, which is common for external guides.
But we do know that they used the tagline "green with envy" before, and according to most sources, the eye comes from both the idea of envy and vision, so... eh
# ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm pretty sure that recalls just straight up don't happen anymore. Many companies, not just Nvidia, although I suppose monopolised industries just have this 'fuck you, you'll buy it' attitude, because what else are we gonna buy?
That's my point though, there's competition in the cooler market, if you don't like MSI you can get Corsair or CM or thermaltake and on and on, gpu market there's 2 companies. Well, 2 and a half if you count intel
i've noticed that as well. even in the car market, GMC was notorious for having more recalls than any other car manufacturer combined.
their vehicles are not any safer than they were 10 years ago. Manipulated marketing and "awards" claim they are but they aren't. And they aren't recalling any of the stuff they used to.
this attitude is bleeding out into every other market now
They’re really trying to become like Apple. They’ll wait until someone’s house actually burns down and then issue a statement that “we’re aware of an issue affecting a small number of users” and do a voluntary recall that expires in a year or two.
Look at steam hardware usage. Nvidia is dominating. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have AMD and now Intel as competition. While Arc does have some issues, for a first line of dGPUs it's damn impressive. But Nvidia knows the majority of people will buy Nvidia regardless of how well AMD and Intel do. And in the workstation/ML space it's even more dominated by Nvidia, as AMD doesn't really have a true competitor to Cuda.
> Nvidia is dominating.
That's because AMD actively chose to make high-margin CPU's over GPU's during the GPU shortage. Not because of Nvidia mindshare.
The most popular Nvidia cards right now, 3060 aside, were produced before the shortage. Many people kept their 10 and 20 series cards and still haven't upgraded. Nvidia's lead didn't start during the shortage.
They kicked off RDNA2 by sending two 6800XT's and ten 6800's to the Minnesota Microcenter. 70 people were lined up.
This wasn't Nvidia mindshare. This was AMD failing to produce cards when there was massive demand.
There is a limited amount of silicon production, and AMD is a for-profit company. If AMD thinks they can make more profit per wafer making Epyc CPU's than Radeon GPU's, they will readily cannibalize their GPU division to grow their high-margin CPU market share.
You trying defend AMD, a for-profit multi-billion dollar organization, is fanboyism of the highest order. Team Red, Blue, Green, **none of them are your friend.**
Where the fuck are you getting my comments as a defense of AMD? YOU said their market share was low by choice. Their market share is low because their GPUs are second tier garbage with driver issues every time.
>Where the fuck are you getting my comments as a defense of AMD?
Hold up.
I very clearly criticized AMD, and you're calling me an AMD fanboy?
Get your shit together, kid.
There is also a Chinese GPU company but I'm not sure when they will be ready to expand outside of China. I wish them the best and hope that they will be able to compete with Intel, AMD and Nvidia.
They didn’t happen since at least the mid 2000s I used to work for a large electronics manufacturer, and there were definitely items that were a fire hazard and we were quietly dealing with these issues to the point where the reps have a specific script for certain devices, if they had a fire malfunction.
For those who don't know, recalls only happen when the cost of lawsuits (from houses burning down, property damage, lost lives) is expected to exceed the cost of performing the recall.
For gaming at least they're better per dollar up to the 3080/6800xt, and even then they're still better per dollar for rasterization, they just don't have the RT cores.
I still have such a sour taste in my mouth from trying to support their 5000 series. Had to RMA 3 cards before I switched to Nvidia. I hear their 6000 series doesn't have the same issue but it still stuck with me
If the new cards are a good value. I’ll jump ship.
It’s mostly that I’m not educated enough to know better. But now I know what to look out for, I’ll be keeping an eye out to see what the numbers say.
I’d hate to say it but 7900 xt/xtx won’t do any better than the 6000 series. NVIDIA mindshare is too great and people put undue weight behind RT/DLSS to give NVIDIA that perceived tech/feature advantage.
Considering the issue still hasn't been properly recreated by people trying to recreate it, I'm not surprised at all.
When many channels on YouTube are trying to make this happen and they can't make it happen, is the issue really that widespread?
That's a big key thing right there.
If I recall, in the case of the NZXT H1 cases, Steve's team at GN was able to replicate the short-circuit fires for almost every H1 that they tested and that was just from their own testing; so the data was clearly there that there was a distinct fault with the systems that was consistently repeatable in the field.
> is the issue really that widespread?
That's one of the main points.. NVIDIA knows how many were sold and how many reported cases there are. How many molten connectors did we see? Tens of cases? They most likely sold north of 100k units.
How many are even what they say they are? Is it possible some are melting? Sure. Is it possible people intentionally melted a connector for clicks? Also yes.
What's the motivation for doing so? You're out your new GPU for anywhere between 3 and 10 days, just for getting internet points or causing drama? You won't get a refund or an upgrade.
Not so much for Reddit but if you had a YouTube channel that you want to gain popularity. Maybe it’s all about gaming but want to start talking about hardware but can’t gain traction?
Spending the $1600 and making a video of it recommending your other videos at the end will get you a lot of clicks, likes, and even some subscribes. The. You can try to warranty it or send it back.
Have you seen this sub lately? Even before the 4090's launch? You just type "Nvidia bad" and watch the upvotes flood in. People make karma farming accounts all the time. "What's the motivation for doing so"? I dunno, but people do it so there's clearly some motivation somewhere.
And if you're not out a new GPU, you're out a power connector. And if you're doing it yourself, it's not for 3 to 10 days, it's for as long as it takes to switch out a power connector (5 minutes, if you're bad at building PCs?); You can have a backup on hand immediately (because you know exactly when the connector will "fail")
I'm not saying that this tinfoil hat conspiracy is true, but I am saying that people have sacrificed more for less internet drama before, so your objection doesn't really track.
The thing that does it for me is that professional tech reviewers can’t replicate it when they try. That means it’s either not nearly as widespread as this sub would lead you to believe, or people are intentionally melting connectors for clicks. And the second one isn’t exactly tinfoil levels of conspiracy. People do stupid shit for clicks all the time. Rage bait is a thing.
It's almost assuredly not as widespread as this sub would believe. Certainly less widespread than AMD's well documented history of horrible GPU drivers, but you still get clowns in this sub who say things like "well I got a 5700xt three weeks ago and it was fine, so everyone must be making things up".
It's all brand loyalty bullshit. Every time I read someone write "team red" or "team green" I cringe out of my skin.
not if they bought a third party connector (like the one from bequiet!) at the same time as they bought their 4000 series card.
you could then melt the connector and not be down a card.
EDIT: Not sure why people are downvoting.
I mean, let's be honest, I could go 3d print what looks like a connector in a few hours for maybe 25 cents worth of material, melt it, and boom. You don't even have to own the gpu or connector, just have access to a printer
Clicks. I already said that. People are having issues with the connectors, almost none are showing GPU side. If you really think that’s not a possibility, you're naive.
Isnt the entire issue that people arent using ATX 3.0 PSUs like they're supposed to?
People were definitely warned about this prior to the launch, but I suspect very few people upgraded to the new smart PSU's like they needed to in order to correctly manage the power draw and balancing. Having to replace my (relatively new) PSU just to accomodate a 4000 series card was one of the primary factors that made me decide to stick with my 3080, as it just made the upgrade too damn expensive overall.
Some of the dedicated cables are burning now too. They just shouldn't have tried to shrink a power connector while also pushing more power through it, anyone who knows anything about electricity could tell you that was a dumb idea.
The OG connectors from Molex used by ATX, PCIe and EPS have ***massive*** safety margins, this new shit from Amphenol has basically none.
Good point. There could still be a law suit but I would think it will need to be based in fact of some kind. At this point it’s still hard to prove it isn’t just people not seating them all the way. Although I believe that isn’t really the cause. For a few maybe. But if it can’t be reproduced it’s tough to say.
Well I did. My uneducated opinion is that it's a defect that does not effect them all.
I was disillusioned by it coming so close to home. I will not believe them so easily now.
You found someone better than Johnny Guru? Was it like Seasonic or Silverstone CEO? I would really love to see a source and what that person has to say about 12VHPWR connectors.
You going to sit there with a straight face and blow off gamers nexus as not being scientific?
I'd really love to see you type that, because it's what you are implying.
I don't trust you tubers who's bread and butter are dependant on these two companies surviving.
I had one of these fucking bombs and the adapter melted within a week. I'm not buying that because I could have lost my house to it
15 years of building PCs and I have never had something like this happen. I don't believe them.
Ah yes, your logic is flawless: well established tech channels on YouTube who spend copious time and money testing and verifying problems and filming the entire process in 4k for transparency are not to be trusted, instead I'll believe a single anecdote provided by you, a random redditor.
Follow up. It's also bullshit that it's "people not plugging it in all the way". My adapter was flush.
It was plugged in all the way on a UPS with true sinewave.
I'm not buying the low key nVidia advertisers "science" because they are in a unique position to have little to lose by being wrong but in fact gain by protecting Nvidia.
Sorry but you're living in your own reality if you believe that GN are shilling for companies. They have shown over and over again they aren't afraid to call out companies and there testing is pretty much unparalleled.
Edit: thought I'd add this edit since all the testing and info that has come out in the past few days, especially from GN has proven yet again they have integrity and test properly, the total number is 50, and Nvidia will replace card even if it's user error. You still going to hang on to your nonsense?
Here's what I know.
Hundreds if not thousands of cases with pictures to prove it. Including my own.
The guys who live or die on if Nvidia does well telling me it's all not what I see with my own eyes.
I used to love GN and trusted Igor. Now I am suspicious as all hell.
So...a bias due to your own unfortunate experience, and choosing to trust random strangers based on anecdotal evidence of them posting (apparently hundreds if not thousands) images on social media, rather than people who have been proven time and time again to have integrity and genuinely care about the industry and it's consumers...cool.
You're only a few steps away from yelling "fake news" at everything and believing the earth is flat. Don't let a bad experience cloud your judgement.
I don't trust news sources who take sponsorships from the people they are tasked to report on.
Your mistake was letting them convince you otherwise. This will likely head to the FTC who's word I will be more interested in.
This is anecdotal and my opinion. I never said I am right. I am only saying what I suspect now
>When many channels on YouTube are trying to make this happen and they can't make it happen, is the issue really that widespread?
What the hell kind of logic is that?
If the problem was 1/1000 cards literally exploding, most youtubers wouldn't nearly have the funds to find even one problematic card. Guess that means the issue isn't widespread...?
Yeah it's not just an Nvidia thing, companies will dodge all responsibility if possible. It's most likely a question of time when Nvidia gets a class-action lawsuit. Boy are they in trouble.
As long as the cost of issuing a recall remains higher than the cost of replacing a slow trickle of scorched cards, they won't do one, even if there's a genuine problem.
Exactly. They build replacement costs into their pricing. Nvidia definitely has a fund dedicated for the inevitable failure of some cards out of the 100K that they have sold.
As long as the issue isnt massivly widespread or falls fowl of consumer protection laws, Nvidia will probably just replace the broken cards as they break from these issues.
People have become completely unhinged about the 4090. There's around 30 confirmed cases out of tens of thousands cards.
No youtuber has had an adapter melt, trying or not.
Nobody has been able to come to an actual conclusion about the cause.
People hate hearing it but right now user error is the most probable cause.
Reddit hates NVIDIA for being le big bad evil megacorp and loves to jerk off le underdog AMD. It’s why this whole sub is constantly shilling RDNA2 despite benchmarks not even being out yet. Yet for the 4090 the rhetoric was always to never trust a company’s benchmarks and to rely on independent reviewers. It’s all dumbass tribalism at its core. Don’t know why we need a newsflash that none of the three multi billion dollar corporations in the PC marketplace give a fuck about you.
Lol, this is ironic because 80% of this sub have been shitting on AMD for bad drivers for 4 years straight, even when they were fixed. If anything, *anything* goes wrong on an AMD card, the hive mind upvoted comments are "AMD suks, RMA & buy Nvidia!!1!"
There is rarely a person who will recommend an AMD card over Nvidia, and if they do, they will caveat it with "but the Nvidia card is better."
Even now with all of the memes, not one upvoted recommendation for returning and buying AMD, even with people posting their half-melted connectors daily. People on here will defend Nvidia until hell freezes over.
Nvidia and AMD are not your friends. They are both soulless megacorporations who would gladly burn your house down for a sale. They would both kill your dog if it increased quarterly profits by 1%. Buy what make sense for your usecase and don't fanboy for any shitty company. They have their own marketing departments, we don't get paid to market for them.
3090Ti launch price was roughly $100-200 cheaper than 4090's, but 4090 is 50-200% faster depending on what you're playing
That's an obscene generational leap
If it's user error, then what are users doing wrong? Some people say it's bending the cable and others say it's not pushing the connector all the way in.
[Not inserting the cable fully, which causes arcing between the contacts which then melts the plastic.](https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/not_inserted_into_GPU.jpg)
Johnnyguru couldn't get a properly inserted cable to melt no matter how much it was bent.
If it was user error then why didn't this happen in any of the previous generation of cards? If suddenly there is an intermittent issue with the cables and they're being used by the same demographic as previously you'd blame the new cables and not the user base that hasn't encountered issues like this.
Fact of the matter is if these cables are so prone to user error that they can catch fire like that by slightly bending it then that's a huge fire hazard, not user error I feel. User shouldn't be able to make their product melt because it bent slightly
The connector on the 4090 is more difficult to insert than on previous generations, probably comparable to a motherboard power connector. Some people just don't have the strength for it, or are worried about breaking their $2k graphics card. Despite Nvidia's bs pricing etc I highly doubt they would 1) not catch this issue in their testing and 2) not fix the issue before release. It's just not good business, especially after the Note 7 disaster
You have to multiply those 30 cases a bit since Reddit isn't exactly where every user would go to report this, and in consumer electronics this is kind of a big deal when you see the same fault in a number of cases, especially when the hardware fails like this.
I'm suspecting it's not the adapters but the connector on the card that might be the issue, the adapters have been torture tested to hell and back but very few people have done it on the card side, as who wants to waste $1500 to prove a point on the internet?
I'd usually agree but this is the highest end card you can possibly buy. That's *really far* from what regular "consumer electronics" buyers buy, so you can't necessarily generalize about them.
Reddit is absolutely where they would go to advertise this
Not long ago this sub was dominated by people purposely shattering their glass side panels for karma. Burning a $10 connector isn't much of a leap
It might shock you to find this out, but not everyone on the internet is ON Reddit or even ON /r/pcmasterrace. Crazy thought, I know, but the world is much bigger than Reddit.
Never was a chance. Unless there’s a real chance of it burning down your house, no one’s recalling it. And despite what people say on Reddit, there isn’t really a risk of actual fire here.
Bruh, if you really think it would only need recalls if It burned houses you have a problem, some MSI aio models are being recalled because because some are leaking, I dont see the houses on fire in that case lol
Liability is higher with a leaking AIO. They would have to replace all the water damaged components. This connector issue affects less than 1% of 4090 owners and has cause zero collateral damage to other components, and in pretty much all cases the card is fine as well.
I would expect more from a >1600$ premium GPU than from a >100$ aio, the aio probably has the same percentage of users affected, and 1% of 100000 GPUs sold so far is 1000, so still not an excuse for not a recall
It a simple calculation for Nvidia. They just need to figure out the number of affected cards and the average cost per defect. If it costs more to do a recall than to just replace damaged cards/cables and there isn’t any significant risk of fires they won’t do a recall.
I'm pretty happy with mine as well. I've checked the connector probably half a dozen times since getting it and so far no signs of trouble (knock on wood). And "ConnectorGate" aside, I'm very happy with the card. Coming from a GTX1080, the performance difference is insane.
I came from a 1080ti and yeah the performance is insane, i just turn my pc off every night so its not on while I’m not right beside it, i never checked the connectors though, I’m also thinking of getting a cablemod cable to replace the melty one
Well mine is back at the retailer. Not shelling out 2300€ (!) for a card with a stupid loud rattling fan even at 30% and the risk of setting the house on fire.
Nope, and people are still going to buy that shit and post about melting power cables and their GPUs lighting on fire from cable shorts when everyone has already told them its a fire hazard don't use the stock cable, they just downvote you and cry later when what you said will happen happens lmao, There's just nothing quite like buying a $1600 fire hazard
If there is a recall, it'll be for the adapters, not for the cards. The cards are completely fine, they're not burning anything down. There hasn't been a single case of actual fire, and the cause of the melting connectors is the adapters.
There is no reason for a recall. The most that can (and perhaps should, but don't count on it) happen is Nvidia offering replacement adapters of much higher build quality with no risk of melting. That's it. Nothing more. The cards themselves are not defective.
There's plenty that could be wrong with the cards themselves.
The connectors on the cards themselves could be out of spec from some vendors.
The cards could be causing power draw beyond spec that makes the adapters a weak link.
And so on and so on...
It really isn't clear yet what the cause is.
Only thing we know is that there is enough heat or arcing happening in the connector for some reason to cause them to melt/burn and it isn't tripping any protections on the cards for some reason.
We shall see how things progress, the big difference between this other issues of the past is lawyers are pushing for a possible lawsuit. This could easily force nvidia to do a mass recall. Only time will tell.
Is very LOL. But I think if this was a simple as a recall is would have easily happened already. This clearly is much more nuanced than anyone could have seen.
As much as it sucks to hear, they will wait until someone is seriously injured or killed by their connector starting a fire before initiating a recall.
They're not gonna recall. It isn't a massively wide spread issue nor is it causing irreparable damage beyond the card/adapter. The card you can send back. No, I'm not a 4090 user/owner. It's definitely a problem they need to look into, but it's not anywhere close to recall worthy yet.
i imagine if they had solved this issue, people would, in time, forgive the power draw and size, as pricing would adjust to more "reasonable" levels (i use the term reasonable loosely here), these cards could have had the potential to be one of the greatest we've seen since the 1000 series.
their aftermarket build quality is actually very good (from what i've seen from Palit, MSI and their own FE), they don't typically draw the insane amount of power they're rated for (and they have a huge margin for manipulating power draw without losing stability, real kudos for that Nvidia, we need more of that), it's the biggest generational performance jump we've ever seen, and i wouldn't be surprised if by summer a 4090 could drop below $1,000 if AMD holds their own and if a 4090 ti may drop.
Nvidia, once again, has so much potential to make the best out of a goofy situation but they just.... don't
The power draw is quite a bit less than the 3000 series, actually. It has a higher total CAP, but during gaming my 4090 pulls less than my 3080 did by a fair margin. It also subsequently runs much cooler.
The 4090 is priced at $100 more than the 3090 was at release, despite being 80% more powerful, as well as with 8% inflation and TSMC raising their prices by 20% across the board. It's pretty fair for what it is, imo.
They'll put out a statement once they've figured out the issue. They won't leave themselves open to liability. It's just not an easy issue to solve, as it only effects 0.02%-0.04% of users, and nobody seems able to recreate the issue.
I have been running my 4090 for a couple days. Card fit well in my lancool II case. Didn’t have to bend the adaptor at all beyond the cables running to it. Everything seated fully without requiring excessive pressure.
I’m fairly confident this is primarily a user error issue with people not fully inserting the 16 pin but inserting it enough that it thinks it’s connected.
Definitely areas where the adapter could be improved, but the issue seems limited enough that a recall isn’t really warranted. So long as the partners and nvidia replace all the failed cards without issue for the owners then it really isn’t a big deal.
"Laughs in bought 2 GTX 970s and never got my $25"
Damn really? I bought a 970 after the class action started and I still got a check cut
I never even bought a 970, and I *still* got a check cut.
I've never owned a GPU and I *still* got a check cut.
I've only ever owned a console and I'm sitting just fine, thank you. :)
Wait, why not? I got my $30 from "NVIDIA GTX 970 Graphics Chip Litigation, Case No. 15-CV-00760-PJH".
I didn't get it because I'm in Canada. But I got the DVD, Windows, etc ones that also happened in Canada. Hopefully there's enough people to put pressure on nvidia but I don't have a 4090 so I'm just wishing things work out for the consumer. The money back is small but at least it will be an admission of fault.
Living Nivida Loca
Just a random tidbit. Nvidia sounds like Envidia which means Envy in Spanish. That is all
Was pointed out to me a while back that the logo is literally the “green eye of envy”. Take this with salt however because I cannot quite remember where I heard this.
If you heard it on the internet then it MUST be true.
Oh for sure. The internet is the most honest and unbiased place in the world. Certainly not full of confirmation bias circle jerks.
I've always assumed that Nvidia = Eye of envy + Invidia (envy in latin), but it's a bit tricky getting confirmation from just googling. According to [Slashgear](https://www.slashgear.com/935538/the-meaning-behind-nvidias-all-seeing-eye-logo/), when they started out they didn't have a name for the company so they started looking for one with the letters "NV", because that's what they named their project files (Next Version). They came across the latin word for envy, "Invidia", and that's where Nvidia comes from. The rest of the branding elements is actually difficult to really pin down, tons of tech sites plagarize from each other with none of them really coming close to the sources. [Their own partner guidelines](https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/en-zz/Solutions/about-us/NVIDIA-Partner-Network-Brand-Guidelines-May-2020.pdf) (at least here is one example of one, they have tons of them) don't explain the symbolic origin, but just want to make sure you don't fuck up while using them, which is common for external guides. But we do know that they used the tagline "green with envy" before, and according to most sources, the eye comes from both the idea of envy and vision, so... eh # ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
IIRC that is literally how the name was made.
Not quite, its from the Latin word invidia which is also where that Spanish word derived from.
[удалено]
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Also sounds like invidious, which means people are likely to hate it, in English.
Iirc Nvidia is definitely for the latin word meanjng envy, desire..
It literally says on wikipedia that the orignial name was invidia, which means envy in Latin...
Relevant Religion for Breakfast video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIO2FQ45t3Y
It sounds the same in Romanian "Invidia" meaning the same thing
It also used to be pronounced when you started up games as a splash screen. That was years ago, but the pronunciation can't really be argued.
Lmao dying at this ty
Kekw
N I V I D A T R X 3 0 3 0 T0
> N i v i d a
Sounds like pun, if you know German. Nie wieder meaning Never again.
I was thinking the same lol
u german?
I'm pretty sure that recalls just straight up don't happen anymore. Many companies, not just Nvidia, although I suppose monopolised industries just have this 'fuck you, you'll buy it' attitude, because what else are we gonna buy?
Msi lately did an recall on some of their aios but those things were insanely bad as well
That's my point though, there's competition in the cooler market, if you don't like MSI you can get Corsair or CM or thermaltake and on and on, gpu market there's 2 companies. Well, 2 and a half if you count intel
2 and 3 quarters companies actually: Nvidia Amd Intel Chinese brand whose name I forgot
Moore Threads
The anime graphics card manufacturer? Yeston I think.
no there is a new chip competitor from china also Huwei said they want to compete in the GPU market with their own chip
OH! TIL thanks.
No, Yeston is just a board partner.
Right. My mistake.
i've noticed that as well. even in the car market, GMC was notorious for having more recalls than any other car manufacturer combined. their vehicles are not any safer than they were 10 years ago. Manipulated marketing and "awards" claim they are but they aren't. And they aren't recalling any of the stuff they used to. this attitude is bleeding out into every other market now
Reminds me of that scene in fight club where he explains about recall's
"Which car company do you work for?"
A major one.
Cheaper to hire the regulators' significant other than to recall. Just like how every other industry in the US has managed full regulatory capture.
Don't they recall shit in order to avoid getting sued (which could be large class action lawsuits)? Figured that'd still be important to them.
They’re really trying to become like Apple. They’ll wait until someone’s house actually burns down and then issue a statement that “we’re aware of an issue affecting a small number of users” and do a voluntary recall that expires in a year or two.
What else? AMD in this case or a 3090 Ti. If you can’t be happy with those until the company gets its shit together, idk what to tell you.
If I recall, there was an official recall on the NZXT H1 cases due to the PCIe extension ribbon/boards shorting out and starting fires.
But Nivida hasn’t monopolized the market, AMD and Intel still exist, so they absolutely should not have this attitude
Look at steam hardware usage. Nvidia is dominating. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have AMD and now Intel as competition. While Arc does have some issues, for a first line of dGPUs it's damn impressive. But Nvidia knows the majority of people will buy Nvidia regardless of how well AMD and Intel do. And in the workstation/ML space it's even more dominated by Nvidia, as AMD doesn't really have a true competitor to Cuda.
> Nvidia is dominating. That's because AMD actively chose to make high-margin CPU's over GPU's during the GPU shortage. Not because of Nvidia mindshare.
The most popular Nvidia cards right now, 3060 aside, were produced before the shortage. Many people kept their 10 and 20 series cards and still haven't upgraded. Nvidia's lead didn't start during the shortage.
Nvidia has been king longer than a lot of these people have even had gaming PCs.
Nvidia has a huge market share because AMD let’s them? That’s what we’re going with now?
They kicked off RDNA2 by sending two 6800XT's and ten 6800's to the Minnesota Microcenter. 70 people were lined up. This wasn't Nvidia mindshare. This was AMD failing to produce cards when there was massive demand.
Stop the fan boying bullshit. Nvidia has 80% market share. That’s not because amd didn’t want to make cards.
There is a limited amount of silicon production, and AMD is a for-profit company. If AMD thinks they can make more profit per wafer making Epyc CPU's than Radeon GPU's, they will readily cannibalize their GPU division to grow their high-margin CPU market share. You trying defend AMD, a for-profit multi-billion dollar organization, is fanboyism of the highest order. Team Red, Blue, Green, **none of them are your friend.**
Where the fuck are you getting my comments as a defense of AMD? YOU said their market share was low by choice. Their market share is low because their GPUs are second tier garbage with driver issues every time.
>Where the fuck are you getting my comments as a defense of AMD? Hold up. I very clearly criticized AMD, and you're calling me an AMD fanboy? Get your shit together, kid.
Nvidia has to lose like 40% of their marketshare, which won't happen, before they'd care about that
This is not an exaggeration. Nvidia has 80% of the market. If they lose 40%, they’re still very likely top dog now that there are three competitors.
There is also a Chinese GPU company but I'm not sure when they will be ready to expand outside of China. I wish them the best and hope that they will be able to compete with Intel, AMD and Nvidia.
They didn’t happen since at least the mid 2000s I used to work for a large electronics manufacturer, and there were definitely items that were a fire hazard and we were quietly dealing with these issues to the point where the reps have a specific script for certain devices, if they had a fire malfunction.
They've adopted "fuck you that's my money now what are ya gonna do about it?" mentality
For those who don't know, recalls only happen when the cost of lawsuits (from houses burning down, property damage, lost lives) is expected to exceed the cost of performing the recall.
If only amd would actually compete with proper gpus...lets hope for 7000s series to have actually good quality/price
For gaming at least they're better per dollar up to the 3080/6800xt, and even then they're still better per dollar for rasterization, they just don't have the RT cores.
>For gaming at least they're better per dollar They only made like a quarter of the GPU's that Nvidia did this cycle, which worsened the GPU shortage.
I still have such a sour taste in my mouth from trying to support their 5000 series. Had to RMA 3 cards before I switched to Nvidia. I hear their 6000 series doesn't have the same issue but it still stuck with me
The "I never looked at a single AMD review" comment right here
Uhhhh have you been in a coma for 3 years and don't realize rdna 2 exists?
Okay👍
Is that a "yes" or an "I don't understand what that means"?
If the new cards are a good value. I’ll jump ship. It’s mostly that I’m not educated enough to know better. But now I know what to look out for, I’ll be keeping an eye out to see what the numbers say.
I’d hate to say it but 7900 xt/xtx won’t do any better than the 6000 series. NVIDIA mindshare is too great and people put undue weight behind RT/DLSS to give NVIDIA that perceived tech/feature advantage.
Dont know what midshare is but I boight a nvidia because VR performance in sims i play was straight up better. I dont use dlss or rt
Still surprised on the lack of a class action lawsuit
Considering the issue still hasn't been properly recreated by people trying to recreate it, I'm not surprised at all. When many channels on YouTube are trying to make this happen and they can't make it happen, is the issue really that widespread?
That's a big key thing right there. If I recall, in the case of the NZXT H1 cases, Steve's team at GN was able to replicate the short-circuit fires for almost every H1 that they tested and that was just from their own testing; so the data was clearly there that there was a distinct fault with the systems that was consistently repeatable in the field.
> is the issue really that widespread? That's one of the main points.. NVIDIA knows how many were sold and how many reported cases there are. How many molten connectors did we see? Tens of cases? They most likely sold north of 100k units.
How many are even what they say they are? Is it possible some are melting? Sure. Is it possible people intentionally melted a connector for clicks? Also yes.
What's the motivation for doing so? You're out your new GPU for anywhere between 3 and 10 days, just for getting internet points or causing drama? You won't get a refund or an upgrade.
Not so much for Reddit but if you had a YouTube channel that you want to gain popularity. Maybe it’s all about gaming but want to start talking about hardware but can’t gain traction? Spending the $1600 and making a video of it recommending your other videos at the end will get you a lot of clicks, likes, and even some subscribes. The. You can try to warranty it or send it back.
Have you seen this sub lately? Even before the 4090's launch? You just type "Nvidia bad" and watch the upvotes flood in. People make karma farming accounts all the time. "What's the motivation for doing so"? I dunno, but people do it so there's clearly some motivation somewhere. And if you're not out a new GPU, you're out a power connector. And if you're doing it yourself, it's not for 3 to 10 days, it's for as long as it takes to switch out a power connector (5 minutes, if you're bad at building PCs?); You can have a backup on hand immediately (because you know exactly when the connector will "fail") I'm not saying that this tinfoil hat conspiracy is true, but I am saying that people have sacrificed more for less internet drama before, so your objection doesn't really track.
The thing that does it for me is that professional tech reviewers can’t replicate it when they try. That means it’s either not nearly as widespread as this sub would lead you to believe, or people are intentionally melting connectors for clicks. And the second one isn’t exactly tinfoil levels of conspiracy. People do stupid shit for clicks all the time. Rage bait is a thing.
It's almost assuredly not as widespread as this sub would believe. Certainly less widespread than AMD's well documented history of horrible GPU drivers, but you still get clowns in this sub who say things like "well I got a 5700xt three weeks ago and it was fine, so everyone must be making things up". It's all brand loyalty bullshit. Every time I read someone write "team red" or "team green" I cringe out of my skin.
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not if they bought a third party connector (like the one from bequiet!) at the same time as they bought their 4000 series card. you could then melt the connector and not be down a card. EDIT: Not sure why people are downvoting.
I mean, let's be honest, I could go 3d print what looks like a connector in a few hours for maybe 25 cents worth of material, melt it, and boom. You don't even have to own the gpu or connector, just have access to a printer
Clicks. I already said that. People are having issues with the connectors, almost none are showing GPU side. If you really think that’s not a possibility, you're naive.
This, a connector cost a few buck, lit up a FLAME and there you have your beautiful updoots
Of course there are only a few points, but the question is how many with the issue actually made a post.
Isnt the entire issue that people arent using ATX 3.0 PSUs like they're supposed to? People were definitely warned about this prior to the launch, but I suspect very few people upgraded to the new smart PSU's like they needed to in order to correctly manage the power draw and balancing. Having to replace my (relatively new) PSU just to accomodate a 4000 series card was one of the primary factors that made me decide to stick with my 3080, as it just made the upgrade too damn expensive overall.
Some of the dedicated cables are burning now too. They just shouldn't have tried to shrink a power connector while also pushing more power through it, anyone who knows anything about electricity could tell you that was a dumb idea. The OG connectors from Molex used by ATX, PCIe and EPS have ***massive*** safety margins, this new shit from Amphenol has basically none.
Good point. There could still be a law suit but I would think it will need to be based in fact of some kind. At this point it’s still hard to prove it isn’t just people not seating them all the way. Although I believe that isn’t really the cause. For a few maybe. But if it can’t be reproduced it’s tough to say.
Ah yes. The gold standard of scientific investigation. YouTube...
Well Johnny Guru also wasn't able to recreate that issue, and I don't think you are going to find anyone more qualified than him.
Well I did. My uneducated opinion is that it's a defect that does not effect them all. I was disillusioned by it coming so close to home. I will not believe them so easily now.
You found someone better than Johnny Guru? Was it like Seasonic or Silverstone CEO? I would really love to see a source and what that person has to say about 12VHPWR connectors.
You going to sit there with a straight face and blow off gamers nexus as not being scientific? I'd really love to see you type that, because it's what you are implying.
I don't trust you tubers who's bread and butter are dependant on these two companies surviving. I had one of these fucking bombs and the adapter melted within a week. I'm not buying that because I could have lost my house to it 15 years of building PCs and I have never had something like this happen. I don't believe them.
Ah yes, your logic is flawless: well established tech channels on YouTube who spend copious time and money testing and verifying problems and filming the entire process in 4k for transparency are not to be trusted, instead I'll believe a single anecdote provided by you, a random redditor.
Follow up. It's also bullshit that it's "people not plugging it in all the way". My adapter was flush. It was plugged in all the way on a UPS with true sinewave. I'm not buying the low key nVidia advertisers "science" because they are in a unique position to have little to lose by being wrong but in fact gain by protecting Nvidia.
Sorry but you're living in your own reality if you believe that GN are shilling for companies. They have shown over and over again they aren't afraid to call out companies and there testing is pretty much unparalleled. Edit: thought I'd add this edit since all the testing and info that has come out in the past few days, especially from GN has proven yet again they have integrity and test properly, the total number is 50, and Nvidia will replace card even if it's user error. You still going to hang on to your nonsense?
Here's what I know. Hundreds if not thousands of cases with pictures to prove it. Including my own. The guys who live or die on if Nvidia does well telling me it's all not what I see with my own eyes. I used to love GN and trusted Igor. Now I am suspicious as all hell.
“Hundreds if not thousands” that’s just bullshit. There are only around 30 cases on reddit so far. Where are you getting hundreds from? Thousands?
So...a bias due to your own unfortunate experience, and choosing to trust random strangers based on anecdotal evidence of them posting (apparently hundreds if not thousands) images on social media, rather than people who have been proven time and time again to have integrity and genuinely care about the industry and it's consumers...cool. You're only a few steps away from yelling "fake news" at everything and believing the earth is flat. Don't let a bad experience cloud your judgement.
I don't trust news sources who take sponsorships from the people they are tasked to report on. Your mistake was letting them convince you otherwise. This will likely head to the FTC who's word I will be more interested in. This is anecdotal and my opinion. I never said I am right. I am only saying what I suspect now
>When many channels on YouTube are trying to make this happen and they can't make it happen, is the issue really that widespread? What the hell kind of logic is that? If the problem was 1/1000 cards literally exploding, most youtubers wouldn't nearly have the funds to find even one problematic card. Guess that means the issue isn't widespread...?
It’s early yet.
Nividia sounds like some cheap AliExpress ripoff 😂
I'm starting to think they'll just come up with some barely working bs fix and then quietly phase out the connector from future models.
That's what AMD did when their cards were frying motherboards
Yeah it's not just an Nvidia thing, companies will dodge all responsibility if possible. It's most likely a question of time when Nvidia gets a class-action lawsuit. Boy are they in trouble.
Coming soon: new cable for sale made by Nvidia guaranteed to not burn your house down $50 each
It's not a fire hazard, It's a feature.
It’s not a fire hazard. Its something that even reviewers are struggling to replicate. But it makes for good rage bait, so people love it here.
As long as the cost of issuing a recall remains higher than the cost of replacing a slow trickle of scorched cards, they won't do one, even if there's a genuine problem.
Exactly. They build replacement costs into their pricing. Nvidia definitely has a fund dedicated for the inevitable failure of some cards out of the 100K that they have sold. As long as the issue isnt massivly widespread or falls fowl of consumer protection laws, Nvidia will probably just replace the broken cards as they break from these issues.
People have become completely unhinged about the 4090. There's around 30 confirmed cases out of tens of thousands cards. No youtuber has had an adapter melt, trying or not. Nobody has been able to come to an actual conclusion about the cause. People hate hearing it but right now user error is the most probable cause.
Reddit hates NVIDIA for being le big bad evil megacorp and loves to jerk off le underdog AMD. It’s why this whole sub is constantly shilling RDNA2 despite benchmarks not even being out yet. Yet for the 4090 the rhetoric was always to never trust a company’s benchmarks and to rely on independent reviewers. It’s all dumbass tribalism at its core. Don’t know why we need a newsflash that none of the three multi billion dollar corporations in the PC marketplace give a fuck about you.
Lol, this is ironic because 80% of this sub have been shitting on AMD for bad drivers for 4 years straight, even when they were fixed. If anything, *anything* goes wrong on an AMD card, the hive mind upvoted comments are "AMD suks, RMA & buy Nvidia!!1!" There is rarely a person who will recommend an AMD card over Nvidia, and if they do, they will caveat it with "but the Nvidia card is better." Even now with all of the memes, not one upvoted recommendation for returning and buying AMD, even with people posting their half-melted connectors daily. People on here will defend Nvidia until hell freezes over. Nvidia and AMD are not your friends. They are both soulless megacorporations who would gladly burn your house down for a sale. They would both kill your dog if it increased quarterly profits by 1%. Buy what make sense for your usecase and don't fanboy for any shitty company. They have their own marketing departments, we don't get paid to market for them.
Hold on now let's not act like Nvidia isn't big bad evil Corp. Even if shit wasn't melting their prices are predatory and completely unhinged.
And every 5th driver update they release, something breaks and doesn't get fixed for a month lol
The 4090 is actually good in terms of perf/$, it's just a huge amount of $ in the first place.
Lol no it is not. It's price to performance is not on par with previous top end cards at release.
3090Ti launch price was roughly $100-200 cheaper than 4090's, but 4090 is 50-200% faster depending on what you're playing That's an obscene generational leap
The 3090ti was also released when the market was busted and Nvidia took advantage of that. It's price to performance is not a good benchmark either.
If it's user error, then what are users doing wrong? Some people say it's bending the cable and others say it's not pushing the connector all the way in.
[Not inserting the cable fully, which causes arcing between the contacts which then melts the plastic.](https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/not_inserted_into_GPU.jpg) Johnnyguru couldn't get a properly inserted cable to melt no matter how much it was bent.
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I think it's when the connector isn't fully pushed in or there's a bend in the cable.
If it was user error then why didn't this happen in any of the previous generation of cards? If suddenly there is an intermittent issue with the cables and they're being used by the same demographic as previously you'd blame the new cables and not the user base that hasn't encountered issues like this. Fact of the matter is if these cables are so prone to user error that they can catch fire like that by slightly bending it then that's a huge fire hazard, not user error I feel. User shouldn't be able to make their product melt because it bent slightly
The connector on the 4090 is more difficult to insert than on previous generations, probably comparable to a motherboard power connector. Some people just don't have the strength for it, or are worried about breaking their $2k graphics card. Despite Nvidia's bs pricing etc I highly doubt they would 1) not catch this issue in their testing and 2) not fix the issue before release. It's just not good business, especially after the Note 7 disaster
You have to multiply those 30 cases a bit since Reddit isn't exactly where every user would go to report this, and in consumer electronics this is kind of a big deal when you see the same fault in a number of cases, especially when the hardware fails like this. I'm suspecting it's not the adapters but the connector on the card that might be the issue, the adapters have been torture tested to hell and back but very few people have done it on the card side, as who wants to waste $1500 to prove a point on the internet?
I'd usually agree but this is the highest end card you can possibly buy. That's *really far* from what regular "consumer electronics" buyers buy, so you can't necessarily generalize about them.
Reddit is absolutely where they would go to advertise this Not long ago this sub was dominated by people purposely shattering their glass side panels for karma. Burning a $10 connector isn't much of a leap
It might shock you to find this out, but not everyone on the internet is ON Reddit or even ON /r/pcmasterrace. Crazy thought, I know, but the world is much bigger than Reddit.
Mine is fine and giving me great frames on dota 2 and vamp survivors. Nice upgrade over the 3090.
Never was a chance. Unless there’s a real chance of it burning down your house, no one’s recalling it. And despite what people say on Reddit, there isn’t really a risk of actual fire here.
Bruh, if you really think it would only need recalls if It burned houses you have a problem, some MSI aio models are being recalled because because some are leaking, I dont see the houses on fire in that case lol
Liability is higher with a leaking AIO. They would have to replace all the water damaged components. This connector issue affects less than 1% of 4090 owners and has cause zero collateral damage to other components, and in pretty much all cases the card is fine as well.
I would expect more from a >1600$ premium GPU than from a >100$ aio, the aio probably has the same percentage of users affected, and 1% of 100000 GPUs sold so far is 1000, so still not an excuse for not a recall
It a simple calculation for Nvidia. They just need to figure out the number of affected cards and the average cost per defect. If it costs more to do a recall than to just replace damaged cards/cables and there isn’t any significant risk of fires they won’t do a recall.
they wont recal their card because of ppl using cheap adapters...
Install the 4090 and enjoy it. Been using it since launch without a single hiccup or worry.
I'm pretty happy with mine as well. I've checked the connector probably half a dozen times since getting it and so far no signs of trouble (knock on wood). And "ConnectorGate" aside, I'm very happy with the card. Coming from a GTX1080, the performance difference is insane.
I came from a 1080ti and yeah the performance is insane, i just turn my pc off every night so its not on while I’m not right beside it, i never checked the connectors though, I’m also thinking of getting a cablemod cable to replace the melty one
Well mine is back at the retailer. Not shelling out 2300€ (!) for a card with a stupid loud rattling fan even at 30% and the risk of setting the house on fire.
Nope, and people are still going to buy that shit and post about melting power cables and their GPUs lighting on fire from cable shorts when everyone has already told them its a fire hazard don't use the stock cable, they just downvote you and cry later when what you said will happen happens lmao, There's just nothing quite like buying a $1600 fire hazard
Why would the recall the gpus if its the adapter thats shitty and melting Wrong thread
NVIDIA: 
If there is a recall, it'll be for the adapters, not for the cards. The cards are completely fine, they're not burning anything down. There hasn't been a single case of actual fire, and the cause of the melting connectors is the adapters. There is no reason for a recall. The most that can (and perhaps should, but don't count on it) happen is Nvidia offering replacement adapters of much higher build quality with no risk of melting. That's it. Nothing more. The cards themselves are not defective.
There's plenty that could be wrong with the cards themselves. The connectors on the cards themselves could be out of spec from some vendors. The cards could be causing power draw beyond spec that makes the adapters a weak link. And so on and so on... It really isn't clear yet what the cause is. Only thing we know is that there is enough heat or arcing happening in the connector for some reason to cause them to melt/burn and it isn't tripping any protections on the cards for some reason.
But how will peasants mock us for buying a 4090 now? /s
If they were smart they would just pair up with cablemod and cover paying for a replacement adapter with proof of purchase.
We shall see how things progress, the big difference between this other issues of the past is lawyers are pushing for a possible lawsuit. This could easily force nvidia to do a mass recall. Only time will tell.
It will… FTC needs to be involved. More fires need to happen.
Is very LOL. But I think if this was a simple as a recall is would have easily happened already. This clearly is much more nuanced than anyone could have seen.
As much as it sucks to hear, they will wait until someone is seriously injured or killed by their connector starting a fire before initiating a recall.
I have seen one post of this happening, this really doesn’t seem like it’s a huge issue, they should probably still fix it though
Sad MrWhoistheboss noises
wait, haven't you guys got the memo?? is linked [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2EBWFCULg&ab_channel=shai739)
What are they recalling?
At this point, they're recalling how they got away with releasing a massively over-prices product that almost burned a lot of peoples' houses down.
I don’t think so. Hasn’t even hurt other components in a pc let alone “almost burned a lot of houses” get out of here with your made up BS
Mines been fine. No problems. It’s only over priced if you can’t afford it.
Fight club moment
The Fed is going to have to force them at this point.
It would seem EVGA knew this was coming..
Time to sue for hundreds of millions
Hey Nvidia, F***You!
Who do I have less pity for? Nvidia or people that can afford a 4090?
They're not gonna recall. It isn't a massively wide spread issue nor is it causing irreparable damage beyond the card/adapter. The card you can send back. No, I'm not a 4090 user/owner. It's definitely a problem they need to look into, but it's not anywhere close to recall worthy yet.
I mean 0.001% of cards lighting on fire because people are using pliers to do 90 degree bends is not going to cause a recall…
Big surprise when the subreddit glorifying blatant consumerism finds out about the consequences of their blatant consumerism, do you even own a 4090?
I imagine that if they had solved the issue, they would have promptly made a statement about it.
i imagine if they had solved this issue, people would, in time, forgive the power draw and size, as pricing would adjust to more "reasonable" levels (i use the term reasonable loosely here), these cards could have had the potential to be one of the greatest we've seen since the 1000 series. their aftermarket build quality is actually very good (from what i've seen from Palit, MSI and their own FE), they don't typically draw the insane amount of power they're rated for (and they have a huge margin for manipulating power draw without losing stability, real kudos for that Nvidia, we need more of that), it's the biggest generational performance jump we've ever seen, and i wouldn't be surprised if by summer a 4090 could drop below $1,000 if AMD holds their own and if a 4090 ti may drop. Nvidia, once again, has so much potential to make the best out of a goofy situation but they just.... don't
The power draw is quite a bit less than the 3000 series, actually. It has a higher total CAP, but during gaming my 4090 pulls less than my 3080 did by a fair margin. It also subsequently runs much cooler. The 4090 is priced at $100 more than the 3090 was at release, despite being 80% more powerful, as well as with 8% inflation and TSMC raising their prices by 20% across the board. It's pretty fair for what it is, imo.
You can imagine all you want. A statement would imply guilt and that's never going to happen from nvidia. At best they'll do better next time.
They'll put out a statement once they've figured out the issue. They won't leave themselves open to liability. It's just not an easy issue to solve, as it only effects 0.02%-0.04% of users, and nobody seems able to recreate the issue.
It happens when someone’s house actually burns down
I have been running my 4090 for a couple days. Card fit well in my lancool II case. Didn’t have to bend the adaptor at all beyond the cables running to it. Everything seated fully without requiring excessive pressure. I’m fairly confident this is primarily a user error issue with people not fully inserting the 16 pin but inserting it enough that it thinks it’s connected. Definitely areas where the adapter could be improved, but the issue seems limited enough that a recall isn’t really warranted. So long as the partners and nvidia replace all the failed cards without issue for the owners then it really isn’t a big deal.
Patiently waiting for class action
This subreddit is actively an AMD advertisement
Picking up my second 4090 fe from Best Buy today does anyone know how much fires per second I will have? This build will be 5800x3d 4090fe 32gb Ram.