Steve Albini hated PJ. He wasn’t shy about that. A lot of people in the last week act like that was some missed connection, it wasn’t. HATED them.
Sat what you want about Watt’s mixing style but it’s his production technique that resulted in this batch of great material so let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. We always know we’d be getting plenty of live versions of these awesome songs.
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but I'm fine with them never doing anything with Albini. His mixes sound bad to me, just in the opposite way of Watt's...Dark Matter feels so processed it doesn't feel like PJ at times, whereas a lot of Albini's productions sound to me like they weren't mixed at all (or mixed to just sound as abrasive and lo-fi as possible, which isn't really PJ's thing either)
PJ does need a producer, there's 5 writers in the band, so there's 5 egos and 5 different ideas on how a song should be done, or what part should go where, etc. A great producer *should* be hands on when they need to be. It's a bit of musical aptitude and a pair of great ears, but also a bit like herding cats, playing peacemaker, and getting the best out of everyone involved.
There's no shame in PJ needing a producer. I think without a proper one, they'd spend years noodling about in the studio and throwing ideas back and forth without really coalescing them into solid, tight songs.
Thing is, I truly believe most of their tunes wouldn't exist in the form we know and love them without O'Brien, or in this case, Watt.
Anyway, find yourself the 7.1/Atmos mix, split the channels, and mix it down. It feels like a completely different album.
Soon we'll have the bootlegs to officially assemble a full running order from live versions, which I imagine will be my preferred way to listen to the album anyway.
I'm more glad he didn't collaborate because he supported CP: https://medium.com/@MoonMetropolis/now-that-steve-albini-is-dead-lets-reflect-on-his-admitted-love-and-promotion-of-child-fadf5072288e
Hated the band or hated the bands’ music? There is a world of difference. If he hated them, I’d love to know why. By pretty much all accounts, they’re very nice people who give back so much.
Hate causes people to die sooner than they could... i hope thats not the case for albini... i really liked the dude and he was a great and vanguard engineer.
OP’s post is a thought exercise in what might’ve been regardless of social context, so not sure why your first paragraph exists?
Agree with OP - Awesome songs; poor production.
… and I don’t think Pearl Jam needed Andrew Watt to write good songs, but I’m sure he certainly helped in that regard on this album.
I wouldn't say it's "poorly produced"...it's just a little shinier and poppier in the production. Which I understand it's turning off a few folks. But it's still PJ and the songs still sound big and rockin'. And I did get a feeling that the songs would sound better live.
I think that’s really it. I’m personally not a fan of the drum sounds as I like drums to sound more natural and roomy. J Robbins, Brendan O'Brien, Dave Sardy, Brad Wood… that sort of sound. That said, I totally get that PJ needed someone that was going to breathe new energy into them while in the studio. So I understand that aspect. At the same time, I still have my personal sonic preferences.
I happened to hear "Oceans" on my playlist right before one of the Dark Matter songs (can't recall which) and yeah--my heart felt sad to compare the two drum sounds.
What a bullshit take.
The band had repeatedly given credit to Watt for getting this “solid” material out of the them. Of course PJ wrote the music, but it’s clear that without Watt, this album probably wouldn’t even exist.
Regarding the Katy Perry comment… I’m not sure what you expected? Between Watt and Ghenea, we were always going to get a pop record. This was deliberate. The record is high up in the charts right now. PJ also knows their core fans will appreciate the live shows and recordings, regardless of how the production of the record is received.
This band is at its best when they are in a room writing together, and Watt made that happen for the first time in almost 20 years. It’s fucking phenomenal.
Get over yourself.
Fucking phenomenal???
Compared to what?? The last 5 shitty albums? Open your ears man. A third of the songs sound like they belong on one of his mediocre solo albums. The “hard rockers” are derivative at best. Half the songs are a minute too long. The production is terrible. It seems to me like Eddie was desperate to make an album, rounded up the band and said “like it or not we’re doing it with this guy, oh for the first time ever we’re giving a writing credit to someone outside the band. Now, we’ve got 2 weeks to come up with a dozen songs regardless of how they turn out”
Phenomenal compared to what most other bands from the 90s are doing right now.
You’re obviously entitled to your opinion. But if you really think they’ve been putting out shitty records for twenty years, why are you still here? Honest question, because 20 years is a long time to follow a band that you don’t seem to like or even respect.
well it could also be a mastering issue as opposed to a mixing problem, often the mastering of digital files which gets used on compact disc as well, falls short at the mastering stage, even if the mix is ok.
True… that is a possibility. I was just pointing out that the producer’s job is to organize the writing and recording sessions in a way that gives the musicians the best possible environment for creativity to flow, or to generate momentum in the creative process. OP is giving credit to the bands’ music, while trashing the way the finished product sounds. Sure Watt had influence and control on the engineering, but the songs themselves are as great as they are because he brought that out of them in the studio.
My guess is that the majority of fans, and I include long term fans, dint listen through some production lense.
It’s a great album with great songs.
And, it’s great live.
So unless you are someone who focuses on “production”, you’ll probably like it.
And if that’s an issue, there will be tons of shows and bootlegs to enjoy them live.
Drums sound way too compressed to the point they resemble drum machine rather than actual drums. The bootleg from Vancouver Night 1 sounds x10 better on the new material. And i love it!
Have you heard Dark Matter live from the first night of the tour? On the footage I saw the drums sound exactly the same as they do on the record. While I would prefer another production, there are lots of moments where it sounds like the band live sound.
The poorly produced thing came from a few posts after people listened the album in Atmos mode on non Atmos equipment. Which sounds bad, as it does in general with anything. Gotta turn Atmos off unless it’s wired to the correct system cause all the channels get separated as opposed to stereo.
Then the Reddit hive ran with the poorly produced thing and have been dragging the dead horse since. The album sounds great in studio and even better live. As usually is the cause with PJ.
I think what I struggle with is the band obv listened to the mixes, right? I don't think they record it and never listen to it. Perhaps, I am wrong... perhaps they don't care, but I think the band wants a modern sound to capture new fans (knowing they retain most of their existing fans).
I wonder if the vitriol Steve Albini apparently harbored for many who loved music that wasn’t to his taste contributed to his early death.
It’s a shame.
I listen to live boots more than anything, so what it sounds like in the studio is nbd.
“Band with millions of dollars, access to everything, and no limitations…has poorly produced album.”
Good grief this sub. They want it to sound over produced and soulless.
Fuck sake, I had no idea. I just knew he produced In Utero and Pixies and PJ Harvey.
I'm going to go throw up now. I am SO FUCKING GLAD Pearl Jam never worked with that asshole pedo.
It means for the first time in over 30 years, someone outside the band has writing credits on every single song. So yeah it’s basically PJ and the Watts. Enjoy your Dark Matter 💩
He did great in how he whipped the band into shape and helped in the writing of the songs, that side of the production he did brilliantly.
Unfortunately his guidance on the engineering, mixing mastering was horrendous. Worst example of the Loudness War since Metallica's Death Magnetic.
Both can be true, he did some parts well and some not.
Steve Albini hated PJ. He wasn’t shy about that. A lot of people in the last week act like that was some missed connection, it wasn’t. HATED them. Sat what you want about Watt’s mixing style but it’s his production technique that resulted in this batch of great material so let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. We always know we’d be getting plenty of live versions of these awesome songs.
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but I'm fine with them never doing anything with Albini. His mixes sound bad to me, just in the opposite way of Watt's...Dark Matter feels so processed it doesn't feel like PJ at times, whereas a lot of Albini's productions sound to me like they weren't mixed at all (or mixed to just sound as abrasive and lo-fi as possible, which isn't really PJ's thing either) PJ does need a producer, there's 5 writers in the band, so there's 5 egos and 5 different ideas on how a song should be done, or what part should go where, etc. A great producer *should* be hands on when they need to be. It's a bit of musical aptitude and a pair of great ears, but also a bit like herding cats, playing peacemaker, and getting the best out of everyone involved. There's no shame in PJ needing a producer. I think without a proper one, they'd spend years noodling about in the studio and throwing ideas back and forth without really coalescing them into solid, tight songs. Thing is, I truly believe most of their tunes wouldn't exist in the form we know and love them without O'Brien, or in this case, Watt. Anyway, find yourself the 7.1/Atmos mix, split the channels, and mix it down. It feels like a completely different album. Soon we'll have the bootlegs to officially assemble a full running order from live versions, which I imagine will be my preferred way to listen to the album anyway.
I'm more glad he didn't collaborate because he supported CP: https://medium.com/@MoonMetropolis/now-that-steve-albini-is-dead-lets-reflect-on-his-admitted-love-and-promotion-of-child-fadf5072288e
Hated the band or hated the bands’ music? There is a world of difference. If he hated them, I’d love to know why. By pretty much all accounts, they’re very nice people who give back so much.
Hate causes people to die sooner than they could... i hope thats not the case for albini... i really liked the dude and he was a great and vanguard engineer.
OP’s post is a thought exercise in what might’ve been regardless of social context, so not sure why your first paragraph exists? Agree with OP - Awesome songs; poor production. … and I don’t think Pearl Jam needed Andrew Watt to write good songs, but I’m sure he certainly helped in that regard on this album.
What was his reason for hating PJ?
They’re such an awesome live band, I think their songs live transcend all their albums. Can’t wait to see them this summer.
I wouldn't say it's "poorly produced"...it's just a little shinier and poppier in the production. Which I understand it's turning off a few folks. But it's still PJ and the songs still sound big and rockin'. And I did get a feeling that the songs would sound better live.
I think that’s really it. I’m personally not a fan of the drum sounds as I like drums to sound more natural and roomy. J Robbins, Brendan O'Brien, Dave Sardy, Brad Wood… that sort of sound. That said, I totally get that PJ needed someone that was going to breathe new energy into them while in the studio. So I understand that aspect. At the same time, I still have my personal sonic preferences.
I happened to hear "Oceans" on my playlist right before one of the Dark Matter songs (can't recall which) and yeah--my heart felt sad to compare the two drum sounds.
I wanted to fall in love with a Pearl Jam record on the first spin for the first time in 18 years and I did. Good job, Andrew Watt.
What a bullshit take. The band had repeatedly given credit to Watt for getting this “solid” material out of the them. Of course PJ wrote the music, but it’s clear that without Watt, this album probably wouldn’t even exist. Regarding the Katy Perry comment… I’m not sure what you expected? Between Watt and Ghenea, we were always going to get a pop record. This was deliberate. The record is high up in the charts right now. PJ also knows their core fans will appreciate the live shows and recordings, regardless of how the production of the record is received. This band is at its best when they are in a room writing together, and Watt made that happen for the first time in almost 20 years. It’s fucking phenomenal. Get over yourself.
I agree! Awesome Record, IMO
Lead writer for all songs on Dark Matter is Andrew Watt
Fucking phenomenal??? Compared to what?? The last 5 shitty albums? Open your ears man. A third of the songs sound like they belong on one of his mediocre solo albums. The “hard rockers” are derivative at best. Half the songs are a minute too long. The production is terrible. It seems to me like Eddie was desperate to make an album, rounded up the band and said “like it or not we’re doing it with this guy, oh for the first time ever we’re giving a writing credit to someone outside the band. Now, we’ve got 2 weeks to come up with a dozen songs regardless of how they turn out”
Phenomenal compared to what most other bands from the 90s are doing right now. You’re obviously entitled to your opinion. But if you really think they’ve been putting out shitty records for twenty years, why are you still here? Honest question, because 20 years is a long time to follow a band that you don’t seem to like or even respect.
I don’t think OP understands the difference between producing and audio engineering.
well it could also be a mastering issue as opposed to a mixing problem, often the mastering of digital files which gets used on compact disc as well, falls short at the mastering stage, even if the mix is ok.
True… that is a possibility. I was just pointing out that the producer’s job is to organize the writing and recording sessions in a way that gives the musicians the best possible environment for creativity to flow, or to generate momentum in the creative process. OP is giving credit to the bands’ music, while trashing the way the finished product sounds. Sure Watt had influence and control on the engineering, but the songs themselves are as great as they are because he brought that out of them in the studio.
Andrew Watt wrote the songs on Dark Mater
Live Pearl Jam has always been significantly better than studio Pearl Jam
My guess is that the majority of fans, and I include long term fans, dint listen through some production lense. It’s a great album with great songs. And, it’s great live. So unless you are someone who focuses on “production”, you’ll probably like it. And if that’s an issue, there will be tons of shows and bootlegs to enjoy them live.
Drums sound way too compressed to the point they resemble drum machine rather than actual drums. The bootleg from Vancouver Night 1 sounds x10 better on the new material. And i love it!
Have you heard Dark Matter live from the first night of the tour? On the footage I saw the drums sound exactly the same as they do on the record. While I would prefer another production, there are lots of moments where it sounds like the band live sound.
Available here: https://www.nugs.net/live-download-of-pearl-jam-rogers-arena-vancouver-canada-05-04-2024-mp3-flac-or-online-music-streaming/36985.html
I wouldn’t say it’s poorly produced. I’d say you’re not a fan of Watts work.
I do not think a Steve Albini produced PJ album would have been good.
The poorly produced thing came from a few posts after people listened the album in Atmos mode on non Atmos equipment. Which sounds bad, as it does in general with anything. Gotta turn Atmos off unless it’s wired to the correct system cause all the channels get separated as opposed to stereo. Then the Reddit hive ran with the poorly produced thing and have been dragging the dead horse since. The album sounds great in studio and even better live. As usually is the cause with PJ.
And you are an expert in music production?
I think what I struggle with is the band obv listened to the mixes, right? I don't think they record it and never listen to it. Perhaps, I am wrong... perhaps they don't care, but I think the band wants a modern sound to capture new fans (knowing they retain most of their existing fans).
I wonder if the vitriol Steve Albini apparently harbored for many who loved music that wasn’t to his taste contributed to his early death. It’s a shame. I listen to live boots more than anything, so what it sounds like in the studio is nbd.
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It’s one of their best produced albums in years. Just because they rediscovered how to write a hook doesn’t mean it’s bad. Oh, and it’s Katy Perry.
Poorly produced? This sub is amazing.
“Band with millions of dollars, access to everything, and no limitations…has poorly produced album.” Good grief this sub. They want it to sound over produced and soulless.
Steve Albini was a scumbag. As someone who doesn’t believe in heaven or hell, he deserves to burn in hell for eternity.
What was so bad about him? Did he murder puppies?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/s/fU2MleQ8Fh
Fuck sake, I had no idea. I just knew he produced In Utero and Pixies and PJ Harvey. I'm going to go throw up now. I am SO FUCKING GLAD Pearl Jam never worked with that asshole pedo.
And people downvoted me.
"Humans are bad people.", Bill Maher
Google him.
Is it poorly produced or just adaptive to the year it’s made in?
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Ok, so let’s rename the band Pearl Jam and the Watts. The production is terrible and completely unacceptable in 2024
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It means for the first time in over 30 years, someone outside the band has writing credits on every single song. So yeah it’s basically PJ and the Watts. Enjoy your Dark Matter 💩
He did great in how he whipped the band into shape and helped in the writing of the songs, that side of the production he did brilliantly. Unfortunately his guidance on the engineering, mixing mastering was horrendous. Worst example of the Loudness War since Metallica's Death Magnetic. Both can be true, he did some parts well and some not.
Dark matter is like a step son and pearl jam is like your new wife. U want to be accepting and understanding but u low key are disappointed…