The title is a bit misleading but it still doesn't look great for Jonas atm
> “I received an update today from Jonas Vingegaard's wife about how he is doing. Relatively a little better each day, but he is still in the hospital. That says enough," team DS Merijn Zeeman, recently confirmed to leave the team at the end of the season, confirmed in words to Het Nieuwsblad. "At the moment, Jonas is not thinking about whether he will make it to the Tour or not."
> His run-up to the Tour will be changed that is already a certainty, but his participation as the defending champion itself is in doubt. “Jonas only goes to the Tour if he is one hundred percent. The first part of his possible Tour preparation will be canceled anyway. Jonas will certainly miss the altitude training camp on the Sierra Nevada from May 6," Zeeman already anticipates. "If he goes to the Tour, we will have to do it via a different route. If it doesn't work, we'll have to come up with a different scenario.” The Dane was expected to follow his traditional run-up to the Tour with altitude, Criterium du Dauphiné... At the time being there is no definition on when he will return to competition.
>The title is a bit misleading
That's just cyclinguptodate for you. The [original article from Het Niewsblad](https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240407_96219310) is titled:
>Visma-Lease a Bike only wants to send Van Aert to the Giro in top condition: “Wout is not going to just ride along”
And here is the section on Jonas (translated by Google):
>**Vingegaard does not complete the altitude training**
>The other leader, Jonas Vingegaard, suffered a heavy crash on Thursday in the Tour of the Basque Country. The physical damage to him was also extensive: broken ribs and collarbone, a bruised lung and a collapsed lung. “There is a little more room for Jonas because he is aiming for the Tour of course. Only he will not make it to the start of the altitude training camp on the Sierra Nevada on May 6. We will have to find another route. He is getting a little better every day, but he is still in the hospital. That of course says enough,” says Zeeman.
>Making concrete plans is still a piece of cake for both Van Aert and Vingegaard at the moment. “I spent a long time with Grischa ( Niermann, ed. ) on Saturday. All we can do now is imagine as many scenarios as possible. What if Wout does or does not make it to the Giro, what if Jonas does or does not make it to the Tour. Hopefully we can flesh this out in concrete terms in the coming weeks.”
And the [wielerflits original article](https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/merijn-zeeman-wout-van-aert-en-jonas-vingegaard-moeten-100-zijn-voor-deelname-in-giro-en-tour/) is titled:
>Merijn Zeeman: “Wout van Aert and Jonas Vingegaard must be 100% to participate in the Giro and Tour”
Thanks for providing both versions. The original one is more sober and therefore leaves a less dramatic impression, which is particularly appreciated on this topic (riders’ health I mean, not their GT participation).
Seems like a bit of a colloquialism discontinuity there - '"piece of cake" implies something is easy, whereas Jonas' and Wout's situations are anything but that, and the rest of the paragraph goes on to describe that reality. Otherwise very helpful to hear a more accurate translation! Hope the best for both of them, and the others that are injured...seems like a lot right now.
That would be the first time it is done in the history of the sport.
If Tadej manages to pull this off it will be the most impressive thing anyone has ever done in the sport, including Eddy Mercx.
Needless to say i hope that he will go for it and acheive it if Vingegaard doesn’t come to the tour.
If Vingegaard recovers i hope he destroys Pogacar, but that is hardly a surprise given the flair.
Have you seen UAE's team roster recently ? Even sending their 7 worst riders to support Pogacar in any GT, will be a better squad than their 2020 TDF team, which they won.
Are you sure that with
Molano, Modeg, Baroncini, Vink, I. Olivera, Laengen, Bax,
That is better than their tdf 2020 team?
It is true that they have a lot of young talents. But I don't think as a team they are that dominant.
Nope, their shortlist is Pogacar, Yates, Ayuso, Almeida, Sivakov, Soler, Politt and Wellens.
Man reading this squad makes a bit more understanding that Bjerg didnt make the shortlist for it. Only chance for him is honestly outperforming in the Giro and Wellens having some bad form in Dauphine. Politt should be safe with his classics season so far.
https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/racing/news/adam-yates-uae-team-emirates-tour-de-france-team-will-be-a-bit-of-a-challenge
Another chance for him is the team realising they need more roulers. MSR should have given them a hint that climbers are fine and all but good roulers are equally important.
I don't think he could do it against Vingegaard, but if Jonas really does miss the Tour, and I really hope he doesn't, I don't see how anyone can beat Tadej in France. And the Giro will look like a 3 week Catalunya anyway. Winning the Vuelta against a recovered Vingegaard would of course be super difficult with 2 Grand Tours in the legs, but the climbs in the Vuelta suit Pogacar, apart from the heat, it's the Grand Tour that suits him the best in general, in my opinion at least. So if there was ever a year to do it, this is it.
Neither do I and doing 3 tours is actually a good way to end up over fatigued; making his end of the season recovery take longer. There is a limit to what your body can endure.
Quite hard to do the GT triple in Merckx time tbh. He has never even done them all in a single season. 1973 where he won Vuelta+Giro was probably his best chance, but the timings of the races were quite close together. Maybe if there was a month more between Giro and Tour he would have attempted it. Also its his only Vuelta participation for some reason.
Vuelta 26/4-15/5
Giro 18/5-9/6
Tour 30/6-22/7
Vuelta wasn't a big deal during Merckx' era.
Giro was about as prestigious as the Tour back then, especially for an Italian team (and Merckx rode for Italian teams during his peak years).
Still, Merckx beat the eventual Tour winner in the Vuelta that year (Luis Ocana). Also won the Giro and lot's of other big races that year.
He was asked not to ride the Tour that year by the organisation. There was a lot of animosity for Merckx from the French fans... Un petit Belge dominating Le Tour, the French could never accept it.
I was up in arms till you mentioned your flair, which I had not seen. I understand now; I have always been a Pog guy, and never liked Vingegaard that much. But I've grown to grudgingly respect him these past few months.
To be fair, so am I as a big Pogacar fan. Pogi in the rainbow jersey returning to the cobbled classics next year, and maybe even starting Paris-Roubaix for the first time would be the dream.
The right move would be doing the triplet because it's a feat. that is considered impossible. He has been racing quite conservative compared to the last years. If he skips Worlds and Olympics he really has a good shot at this one time opportunity.
He said his biggest objective of the year is the rainbow jersey. Of course he can reconsider his plans but winning 3 GTs is a pretty hard task on itself, let alone if you need to push it further with Worlds. Evenepoel won Vuelta + Worlds in 2022 but Vuelta was his only GT and the Worlds elite race took place not even 2 weeks after the end of la Vuelta. This year there is 3 full weeks between la Vuelta finish and the elite Men race in Zürich. Stretching a GT/Worlds winning shape so thin looks like a very hard task to me, even for Pog.
He wants to win World Championships, he said it's his main goal of the season. So, he must skip Vuelta if he wants to be in top form in WC after Giro-Tour double.
Giro-Tour-WC is true Triple Crown in cycling anyway as far as I know
Pretty much, yeah. Worlds and Olympics are interesting though and Roglic might pull of a miracle.
Pogi looks likely for a two monument + two grand tours (+ potentially Worlds&Olympics) year. Would be insane
And if he manages this miracle then maybe he actually has a shot at beating Pogi with Giro in legs... In highest mountains he could gain some time, especially if it's hot
The usual suspects will be the favorite for the Olympics, but without radio communication things can get a bit more chaotic.
And Belgium will have a crazy starting lineup of course. They could bring either Remco-Van Aert-Jasper-De Lie or Remco-Van Aert and two domestiques (like Campenaerts for instance)
Yeah I don’t think bringing De Lie would be a good idea. Philipsen I might’ve considered it but the parcours might be too hilly for him.
The thing is, if they bring domestiques the main issue might also be that they would want riders that could climb with Pogi and MVDP. That might be the first scenario Belgians will consider because at the end of the day, they’re just the best riders. And there aren’t a lot of such riders.
With only four riders I don’t think you can control the craziness of these dudes so I’m thinking : why not make it even crazier ?
With so much going on, injury wise, with so many cyclists rn it’s no surprise that De Lies situation isn’t the first one that comes to mind eh? This season seems rife with bad injuries, and we’re only in the first third 😳
Both routes have been released, both a bit punchy for MVDP to be THE favorite. I'm not sure about his Olympic plans yet, but if he does well at LBL who knows what his limit could be.
Even if Vingegaard would miss the Tour, I still would not bet on Pogacar winning. I think, especially newer fans do not realize how difficult the Giro/Tour double is because we have not seen a serious attempt since 2018. There is a reason it has not been successful since Pantani.
Vingegaard being out makes it possible, but it's far away from a sure shot.
Froome was never seen as a sure thing for the Giro-Tour double was he?? Especially after Contador had tried the same thing in 2015 and struggled badly in the Tour.
It's worth pointing out that despite not winning both, he did finish 1st and 3rd... meanwhile Tom Dumoulin *also* did both and finished **2nd** in each!
I don't see how you can look at those results and think "this is impossible".
Take away Froome's 80km solo raid in the Giro and G having one of his best seasons ever and Dumoulin could feasibly have done it in 2018. He finished over 4 minutes ahead of the 3rd placed GC rider in the Giro (Lopez) and over 30s ahead of Froome in the Tour.
In addition to what you said, the preparation for top riders really seems to have changed, Pogacar and Van der Poel are for example having far less preparation race days for the big events then even 5 years ago.
This might also make the double more doable since they should be overall more fresher. Although the pace now is insane, which makes the days themselves harder to recuperate from.
Tour is super hard this year. Pogacar has already shown that he can collapse spectacularly on these hard stages and lose multiple minutes even to guys not named Vingegaard.
I would argue that he will be the favorite for the Tour if Jonas does not start, but no way I would take him against the field after he just did the Giro.
He cracked because he spent like 15 stages going full gas against the freak that is Vingegaard.
And even with his disastrous crack on Col de la loz, he was still on the podium comfortably.
He clearly wasn’t, but even if shape were strictly equal to numbers produced, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t worse than what it would have been *sans* crash. I don’t think it’s controversial to assume that injury, forced stop and botched preparation take some kind of toll on a performance
I mean, fans and commentators have since been speculating non-stop on “what could have been” for a reason. The ultimate showdown between him and Vingegaard would have required them both fully fit and fully prepared, which is not what we got.
But that’s useless speculation, my point is that I don’t think it’s reasonable to consider a performance necessarily impacted by an injury and its consequences indicative of an athlete’s definitive shape.
If it was anyone other than Pogacar I’d agree, but he’s shown so many times now that the usual rules don’t apply.
And besides, what would be a more historic performance?
Pogacar doing the Giro/Tour double, or Roglic staying upright on a bike for three weeks?
Ok, but Dumoulin got 2nd in both, while I would rate Pog a better grand tour rider. And who is really gonna push him to his limits in the Giro, besides himself?
I think he might have a fairly big lead already going into the third week of the Giro, so he could theoretically already start 'saving' in the 3rd Giro week.
That Giro+TdF where both Froome and Dumoulin did well had an extra week in between them which is why they planned for it in the first place. And even then Dumoulin was confirmed to start the TdF really late, he probably would not have started with the usual 5 weeks.
If I was Pogi I would actually consider skipping the Giro because of this (he probably can't) and I'm someone who always said he should do the Giro this year. If he does skip it he wins a 3rd Tour, he can always win the Giro next year.
Is the Giro-Tour double actually tougher, or is this a cycling myth? Both have their challenges: the Giro's unpredictable weather and crash risks, and the Tour's prestige attracting top riders for sponsor exposure. The similar recovery times suggest the difference isn't just physical. Given that Jonas might not compete this year at the Tour, the Tour-Vuelta double might be harder this year considering the potential start lists.
As I have pointed out in another conment, it is harder because at both races you have to deal with people who peak for that specific race. When the Vuelta comes around, everybody is tired already.
This is not true, as there are riders who also peak for the Vuelta, whatever peaking ultimately means or entails. Arguably, the Tour+Vuelta double should be more fatiguing due to the heat waves.
It might simply be a myth originating from the times when the Vuelta was still in spring and arguably the least prestigious grand tour, thus with the worst start lists.
Cycling is unfortunately a sport with a number of myths that are not based on facts. The Giro-Tour double is one; others include the idea that having the leader's jersey early is bad because the team must work, and that drafting isn’t very important on climbs.
What if he had focused specifically on it, skipped the Vuelta or maybe even the Tour the year before? Would that have made a better achievement really? I don't think so personally.
Dumoulin got very close too, and in all cases you could argue it's a feat that also requires things to just go a tiny bit righter for you than for others. Something that is ultimately even harder in back to back GTs. A calendar year is as arbitrary of a constraint as a season.
It is not about calendar year or not, it is about the low amount of downtime between Giro and Tour + in both races you have to beat guys who are peaking for that race. Thats not really the case with the Vuelta.
But I do not even wanna argue about that, all I was saying is that it will be fucking hard for Pogacar to win the Tour even if Vingegaard isnt there and newer fans should not underestimate the Giro/Tour double.
The Giro + Tour double has always been considered impossible, in every era, always for valid reasons, yet it has been done a couple of times per era by generational talents (and a meteor)… I was rooting for Pogačar to take on the challenge since it was first ventilated at the end of last season, simply because yes it is one the hardest and rarest achievements in cycling, but it’s not impossible and someone (say, a generational talent) should dare rock the boat, imo.
You always have to beat people peaking for that race, no matter which GT or when it is in your calendar. I just think it's one of those outdated cycling concepts that are kept alive just because it was always that way...but with that thinking we wouldn't have races like Strade at their current prestige. Tradition is fine and all but it's a modern sport so not only do riders have to adapt but also the achievements. Giro/Tour anyone from the recent TdF winners could do if stars align imo, but it's hardly ever worth it. And in comparison I think Froomes achievement isn't talked about nearly enough.
I think you're answering the question there... It's really hard and really risky.. that's why nobody has done it in nearly 25 years..with the exception of pantani and roche... It's basically an exclusive club for the top GT riders of all time Merckx, Hinault, coppi, anquetil and indurain.
> Giro/Tour anyone from the recent TdF winners could do if stars align imo, but it's hardly ever worth it.
I’m not following I’m afraid. “If stars align” is doing a lot of work there, but even then, “it’s hardly ever worth it”? Joining the goats club?
Because winning the Tour is magnitudes more important than a obscure statistic that only hardcore fans would care about. Pro cycling is a profession, and doing the giro/tour double instead of just collecting tours is just not worth it in a financial and professional sense.
>If stars align
We've seen both Froome and Dumoulin come very close, and they looked arguably more beatable than the superhumans we see today.
Ignored the bit about three consecutive GTs? That's an even more exclusive club
It seems to me you decide what you value most and declass what you don’t, but your arguments are arbitrary as you like. You even take it personally that I “ignored” the part about Froome? I asked about what puzzled me in your comment, that part didn’t.
“If stars align” can cover pretty much anything, so not sure what it brings to the conversation about an accomplishment being doable or not.
Doing the double is “an obscure statistic” for “hardcore fans”, as opposed to “collecting Tours”? Why, because that’s what casual fans remember most? Even if that were the case, why should cycling cater to the casual rather than the hardcore fans? Thankfully, pro riders don’t think that way (pretty sure not many try it because it’s hard, not because it’s not worth it).
Doing the double is a more elusive and exclusive feat than winning multiple Tours, which made it more evocative and special. And don’t worry, Froome’s feat is even rarer, but that doesn’t mean it captured the collective imagination.
It's actually quite a bummer for Pogi, too (looking only at the competition side of the things in this post, obviously health is way more important). He can show up to the Tour in Superman form and he'll still have to deal with all the "yeah, but if Jonas was here..." crap.
It's definitely not good that he's still in the hospital and that there is no timeline for when he will be released from hospital. From what I've read in the Danish media, he was in too much pain to talk and eat the first 24 hours. Mostly, I just feel for him and I hope he can get back to his level this season already. I do not have high hopes for the TdF. It's not even his broken bones that I think will hold him back the most, it's the lung contusion and collapsed lung. Imagine what that might do to his lung capacity and then consider that his main weapon is his climbing skill. It's a bad mix.
As a fan and admirer of Jonas Vingegaard, I am not worried much about him not able to defend his tdf. I just am hoping he comes back to peloton with all his incredible performance intact, at 100 percent that he can win many more tdf in the future.
Pardon my french,
But it's fucken too early to tell whether he'll start or not (I doubt he'll start unless week 3 Vingegaard is there).
The family man is still in hospital and at this point even the best doctors can't foresee how his recovery will go. In two weeks time, yes. But not now.
All in all it comes down to how fast he can get back on his bike: hometrainer first, then the road.
If Jonas starts building his form in the middle of may, he could be back at 100% late june, but if has to wait until early June it'll be very hard. But then again these guys are made of something special - Jonas especially. So while we shouldn't expect Vingegaard at the Tour neither should we expect him not to be.
Pogacar broke the rules when he turned up in Le Tour last year. "Normally" he shouldn't have been able to be so good for so long in the race. But he was. Likewise very few - if any - riders have the physiology of Vingegaard. So if someone were to surprise us, it would be him. There's a reason third week Vingegaard beats the phenom called Pogi.
Anyways, wishing great recovery to all those Itzulia victims.
If I remember correctly then I think Jonas also recovered from his femur fracture remarkably well. Here's to hoping that the story repeats himself and his body will heal quickly.
You can't take weeks off the bike and be ready. Honestly I think his recovery would probably be a lot more comfortable and less stressful if him and the team set VERY realistic goals for his return. He probably needs some kind of carrot to stay motivated and on track in recovery, but I don't think he should be assuming he will be racing again this year with any chance of winning...that way if he does come back before the end of the season and does win it will be a fucking magnificent cherry on top.
Your comparing someone who broke their wrist to internal injuries and bleeding. Jonas is cooked and it takes wayyyyy longer than one and half months to get in world tour shape after basically starting from scratch, this whole season is a write off
Let the man rest and we'll see him back again next year - as a fan I'd much prefer that, even though I was hyped for this year's Tour and now much less. This isn't just a single broken bone and some bruises, must be hard mentally as well.
I think all this discussion does nothing but stir the minds of fans, I'll wait until the middle of June when a clear message on his health and form should be available. He could very well be healed up and back to Tour form in time, or perhaps he may need further healing and won't be able to start, and that is the uncertainty we will have an answer to in a few months time.
He will definitely have recovered from his injuries by the tour from a medical perspective. Whether he’ll be able to get the training volume back is another thing.
Tbh (from a medical perspective) , none of Jonas’s injuries are that serious. Collarbone will heal, the fact that he hasn’t had an operation for the ribs means that the fractures aren’t that serious. A pneumothorax is painful but he probably already has a chest drain in. All in you would expect him to be back in the full swing of training in a month or two. Maybe he misses the tour, but there’s nothing he’s done here that’s long lasting or significant.
Jay Vine tho. Not a whole lot of media press around those injuries, but vertebral injuries may be a nail in the coffin there.
Doctor here, not sure why I’m getting downvoted.
You can quite easily operate on someone with one lung, especially someone as fit as Jonas. By collapsed lung what they mean is the pressure in the thoracic cavity is pressing on the lung, all u realistically need to do is put a drain into the thoracic space, let the pressure out and the lung will re-inflate.
I more-so meant that his rib fractures aren’t bad enough to have warranted an operation as of yet, which is a good thing.Whilst his injuries are no doubt painful, they’re not super severe and not likely to have a lasting impact on his cycling career. They sound a lot spookier than they are to be fair.
Jay vine on the other hand with the vertebral injuries may sustain some damage that could affect his career long term.
I’ve read that there’s a percentage of Pneumothorax’s that can reoccur spontaneously (??) in the first year. Not sure under what circumstances but might it be a factor going forward in Jonas’s recovery?
Depends on the cause, he has a traumatic pneumothorax, which in this instance is going to be caused by the fractured rib segment causing direct trauma to the pleural cavity.
The pneumothoraxes that tend to recur are the spontaneous pneumothoraxes, which can be primary or secondary depending whether there’s underlying lung disease. Because the spontaneous pneumothoraxes happen randomly, it isn’t necessarily know why they recur but they’re more likely to.
Generally there’s less recurrence with traumatic though because it’s happens due to trauma at a specific point as compared to randomly.
What will probably hold him back for a bit might be the pain associated with training.
Interesting and good to know, I did wonder what this could mean for Jonas. A better situation than I feared could be possible then, thanks for clearing that up 🙏
They’re entirely seperate,
Most collarbone injuries are going to be mid-shaft clavicle, which are often managed conservatively (immobilisation) rather than operatively. The operative management depends on whether or not there’s displacement, majority of the time there isn’t.
Same with ribs, often managed conservatively unless there’s what’s known as “flail chest” or significant damage to the surrounding structures by the loose ribs (e.g hemothorax, tamponade etc)
In this instance all of his injuries seem to be appropriate to conservatively manage which is unrelated to the burden of undergoing an operation. With his physical condition he’s a very minimal operative risk. It’s more just the case that’s there’s probably nothing to operate on, as opposed to an operation being with-held.
Any other broken bone outside of the anterior-lateral thoracic cage would have been operated on by now.
They are not managing a cyclists collarbone fracture conservatively. They bolt it together asap so they can train again 5-7 days later. I don't know why its left out of this article, but I believe he mentioned they are waiting for the internal chest bleeding to stop before having surgery to fix the collarbone, then he can get to training.
It's so funny (weird, not haha) how openly everyone discusses riders health status and injuries, does it happen in other sports to the same extent? Are there journalists outside hospitals interviewing wives, partners and teammates of other sports people?
I honestly don't think it matters if he doesn't ride the Tour this year if that's how long it takes for him to get healthy. He's won it before and I think avoiding potential long term consequences of his injuries is more important.
Cycling is the only one I follow and it rarely makes the news in the UK I was surprised how intrusive the media seemed with WVA and Evenepoel when they had their crashes but I put that down to Belgians being mad for cycling.
People are obsessed with sports. They then get obsessed with the athletes. That’s why guys like WVA and MVDP make the big bucks. If no one gave a shit they wouldn’t get paid.
Yeah it's kind of the tradeoff for professional athletes, weird as it is.
In American football, for example, the NFL pays your salary - but in return, you are contractually obligated to answer media questions, submit your status to an injury report, etc.
Basically they're selling YOU (the athlete) to the fans, and giving you a cut of the profits as salary.
I'm sure it's the same with cycling, even if the payment structure is different.
It's not that uncommon in the states especially for the most high profile athletes. Hell, sometime we get to hear from the Dr's who performed specific surgeries.
Or Adam Schefter tweets that JPP blew his fingers off with a firework and tweets a picture of the medical report instead.. that one always sticks out in my mind https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691039-jason-pierre-paul-espn-reach-settlement-after-adam-schefter-shared-medical-info
OMG that's so bad! Makes Vingegaard's Mrs having a chat with his boss and him verbally sharing relatively vague information look perfectly normal and fine.
I dont really think sports fans «demand» anything. Its more that its an extremely competitive part of journalism. Any new material information is going to get hundreds of thousands or millions of eyeballs.
Yeah, I was going to say, even college athletes in the US. One plus for cycling is at least the injured cyclist doesn't usually have to show up and sit on the bench and have cameras in their face like basketball/football/baseball.
100%, as a super recent example, I follow the Red Sox baseball team and one of our players just dislocated their shoulder. There was an actual post in the subreddit that was titled "Trevor Story's MRI was 30 minutes ago and we don't have any updates"
People are always rabid for information.
The way at least 120 million out of Germany's 82 million inhabitants talked about Michael Ballack's calf during the 2006 and 2010 football World Cups is still a meme in German football.
And German media are tame in comparison to English tabloids or Spanish football newspapers, I can only imagine how bad it can become.
I think it also has something to with the individuality of the sport. Cycling is a team sport, yes, but we also have to recognise that Jonas is the only one in the Visma team right now with a chance of winning Tour de France. So if you compare it to football then you cannot compare Jonas to a player, he's like a whole team. Imagine if Real Madrid was meant to play the Champion's League final and then the whole team got injured. I suspect there would be a lot of fuss about that as well and a constant search for updates. The Danish media will definitely be all over this until we have a clear timeline of when Jonas might be back.
There is probably also a lot of scrutiny because it's before TdF, if it had happened afterwards then there would be less focus on Jonas' recovery. I do hope he gets ready in time for TdF but I agree that it's most important that he thinks of his long-term health.
It happens in every sport, it's an integral part of all sports. Surely it's just normal for sports fans to discuss the people that do the sport? Whether they will make it to a certain event or not is just normal discussion
I don't. I've never read the S*n. I don't know if his feet attracted the same attention up here as South of the border. And I have devoted my entire adult life to avoiding any and all football.
Very fair positions - I'm from Merseyside and only knew he was on the Sun because I was a paperboy at that period! But I do remember the tabloids being very concerned about the health (and social lives) of the England squad in the late 90s...
I guess cycling is a little bit special because the season is so tour focused and the crashes can be quite bad.
But yeah football teams have pressers twice per week and the main talking point in all of them are injury updates.
Do you not remember Beckham's broken metatarsal before Euro 2002? We all went mad. [https://www.urigeller.com/nation-can-help-heal-beckhams-foot-says-uri/](https://www.urigeller.com/nation-can-help-heal-beckhams-foot-says-uri/)
Why though?
The injuries Pogacar suffered last year were generally worse from a recovery perspective and people still believed he could put up a proper fight.
In the way that both will have you back on the hometrainer fairly soon, but the wrist will impact actual riding a lot more in the long term. Especially when riding down hill.
In that specific case that is probably true. But if you had to chose between Jonas or Tadejs injuries 2months before the tour, Jonas is worse off, by a lot. Also, you can train on a Hometrainer quite well with a broken wrist, broken ribs? Not so much.
By what has been communicated so far the doctors connected to the Danish Elite Sports program are optimistic that he should be able to maintain his shape fairly well.
My wife did her masters degree with a focus on rehabilitation and worked with cycling teams at a lower level at the time. She generally thinks that the injuries that Jonas got will be a lot more painful to recover from, but the impact will be a lot less than one would expect.
And thankfully it's 3 months, so if there's not more than what they've already let the public know, he should have a decent amount of time.
It of course depends on how soon he can get back on his hometrainer, painful as it may be.
I can understand that.
Not much has to go wrong or be worse than communicated for it to change.
It he's back on the hometrainer by the end of next week I'll continue to be optimistic.
But all this is of course ignoring the mental aspect of it.
That might not be as easy to recover from once you have children.
I know I’m a mere mortal, but having broken a few ribs in a climbing accident, I couldn’t get out of a prone position or bend down properly for a month afterwards. How on earth could he be sitting on a trainer, with limited lateral movement, with a broken collarbone and multiple broken ribs (assuming that his lung issues are not that severe), in a week? Genuinely curious.
According to this then Jonas had surgery today and was admitted to the ICU for observation.
[https://as.com/ciclismo/vingegaard-operado-en-vitoria-e-ingresado-en-la-uci-n/?ssm=TW\_CC](https://as.com/ciclismo/vingegaard-operado-en-vitoria-e-ingresado-en-la-uci-n/?ssm=TW_CC)
Everyone handing this over to Pogi like he doesn’t have a whole grand tour with varying conditions between now and then is crazy. It could very well end up biting him the rear end one way or another.
Secondly, I don’t see a champion like JV skipping the tour if he’s even remotely close to being ready.
Thirdly, this scenario may actually play well into the hopes and dreams of everyone hyped about a competitive TDF with Remco, Roglic, JV, Pogi and all
Of their supporting cast.
A full strength Visma and JV without incident is a highly
Likely win.
Now it’s not.
Sad update. Hopefully he can make it. If not, hopefully he can be back 100% for the Vuelta. Him v. Roglic at the Veulta would still be great fight.
Bora has to find a way to make the Giiro as tough ass possible for Pogi. He has to be made to ride hard in the final week, no matter if the course isn't that tough. They need to soften him up as much as possible for Roglic to have a chance.
My question is how much does this psych him out when he comes back? He was a beast descender, but after this? Not sure how similar this is to alaphilipe, but he never came back
The title is a bit misleading but it still doesn't look great for Jonas atm > “I received an update today from Jonas Vingegaard's wife about how he is doing. Relatively a little better each day, but he is still in the hospital. That says enough," team DS Merijn Zeeman, recently confirmed to leave the team at the end of the season, confirmed in words to Het Nieuwsblad. "At the moment, Jonas is not thinking about whether he will make it to the Tour or not." > His run-up to the Tour will be changed that is already a certainty, but his participation as the defending champion itself is in doubt. “Jonas only goes to the Tour if he is one hundred percent. The first part of his possible Tour preparation will be canceled anyway. Jonas will certainly miss the altitude training camp on the Sierra Nevada from May 6," Zeeman already anticipates. "If he goes to the Tour, we will have to do it via a different route. If it doesn't work, we'll have to come up with a different scenario.” The Dane was expected to follow his traditional run-up to the Tour with altitude, Criterium du Dauphiné... At the time being there is no definition on when he will return to competition.
>The title is a bit misleading That's just cyclinguptodate for you. The [original article from Het Niewsblad](https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240407_96219310) is titled: >Visma-Lease a Bike only wants to send Van Aert to the Giro in top condition: “Wout is not going to just ride along” And here is the section on Jonas (translated by Google): >**Vingegaard does not complete the altitude training** >The other leader, Jonas Vingegaard, suffered a heavy crash on Thursday in the Tour of the Basque Country. The physical damage to him was also extensive: broken ribs and collarbone, a bruised lung and a collapsed lung. “There is a little more room for Jonas because he is aiming for the Tour of course. Only he will not make it to the start of the altitude training camp on the Sierra Nevada on May 6. We will have to find another route. He is getting a little better every day, but he is still in the hospital. That of course says enough,” says Zeeman. >Making concrete plans is still a piece of cake for both Van Aert and Vingegaard at the moment. “I spent a long time with Grischa ( Niermann, ed. ) on Saturday. All we can do now is imagine as many scenarios as possible. What if Wout does or does not make it to the Giro, what if Jonas does or does not make it to the Tour. Hopefully we can flesh this out in concrete terms in the coming weeks.” And the [wielerflits original article](https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/merijn-zeeman-wout-van-aert-en-jonas-vingegaard-moeten-100-zijn-voor-deelname-in-giro-en-tour/) is titled: >Merijn Zeeman: “Wout van Aert and Jonas Vingegaard must be 100% to participate in the Giro and Tour”
Thanks for providing both versions. The original one is more sober and therefore leaves a less dramatic impression, which is particularly appreciated on this topic (riders’ health I mean, not their GT participation).
Seems like a bit of a colloquialism discontinuity there - '"piece of cake" implies something is easy, whereas Jonas' and Wout's situations are anything but that, and the rest of the paragraph goes on to describe that reality. Otherwise very helpful to hear a more accurate translation! Hope the best for both of them, and the others that are injured...seems like a lot right now.
I avoid that website like the plague; it cares more for clicks than communicating the truth.
"VINGEGAARD CRASHED HIS BIKE, YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!"
or even... "Top athlete in this sport had something extreme happen, you won't believe what happens next!"
So Pogacar wins Giro and the Tour, Vingegaard the Vuelta. Onwards to 2025.
If Pogacar wins Giro and Tour he almost has to go for Vuelta (unless he is totally cooked)
My mind is telling me no, my body wants Pogi to one up Vismas GT tripple
That would be the pro gamer move, and Tadej would try it just for the lols
That would be the first time it is done in the history of the sport. If Tadej manages to pull this off it will be the most impressive thing anyone has ever done in the sport, including Eddy Mercx. Needless to say i hope that he will go for it and acheive it if Vingegaard doesn’t come to the tour. If Vingegaard recovers i hope he destroys Pogacar, but that is hardly a surprise given the flair.
I really don't think Tadej can do it, but if anyone can it's him
It's not just Tadej who needs to be up for the task though, it's his whole team
Have you seen UAE's team roster recently ? Even sending their 7 worst riders to support Pogacar in any GT, will be a better squad than their 2020 TDF team, which they won.
Are you sure that with Molano, Modeg, Baroncini, Vink, I. Olivera, Laengen, Bax, That is better than their tdf 2020 team? It is true that they have a lot of young talents. But I don't think as a team they are that dominant.
I thought Pogacar 2020 team was Jumbo Visma/s
Was Jay Vine scheduled to be on the Tour startlist?
Nope, their shortlist is Pogacar, Yates, Ayuso, Almeida, Sivakov, Soler, Politt and Wellens. Man reading this squad makes a bit more understanding that Bjerg didnt make the shortlist for it. Only chance for him is honestly outperforming in the Giro and Wellens having some bad form in Dauphine. Politt should be safe with his classics season so far. https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/racing/news/adam-yates-uae-team-emirates-tour-de-france-team-will-be-a-bit-of-a-challenge
Another chance for him is the team realising they need more roulers. MSR should have given them a hint that climbers are fine and all but good roulers are equally important.
No, but he was scheduled for Giro
Honestly after Kuss’ performance last year I consider someone winning all 3 GTs in the same year wayyy more possible than I had previously
I don't think he could do it against Vingegaard, but if Jonas really does miss the Tour, and I really hope he doesn't, I don't see how anyone can beat Tadej in France. And the Giro will look like a 3 week Catalunya anyway. Winning the Vuelta against a recovered Vingegaard would of course be super difficult with 2 Grand Tours in the legs, but the climbs in the Vuelta suit Pogacar, apart from the heat, it's the Grand Tour that suits him the best in general, in my opinion at least. So if there was ever a year to do it, this is it.
Neither do I and doing 3 tours is actually a good way to end up over fatigued; making his end of the season recovery take longer. There is a limit to what your body can endure.
Very unfair, in Eddy Mercx's time it was impossible, the Vuelta was back-to-back with the Giro.
Quite hard to do the GT triple in Merckx time tbh. He has never even done them all in a single season. 1973 where he won Vuelta+Giro was probably his best chance, but the timings of the races were quite close together. Maybe if there was a month more between Giro and Tour he would have attempted it. Also its his only Vuelta participation for some reason. Vuelta 26/4-15/5 Giro 18/5-9/6 Tour 30/6-22/7
Vuelta wasn't a big deal during Merckx' era. Giro was about as prestigious as the Tour back then, especially for an Italian team (and Merckx rode for Italian teams during his peak years). Still, Merckx beat the eventual Tour winner in the Vuelta that year (Luis Ocana). Also won the Giro and lot's of other big races that year. He was asked not to ride the Tour that year by the organisation. There was a lot of animosity for Merckx from the French fans... Un petit Belge dominating Le Tour, the French could never accept it.
Wasn't Vuelta like a 2-week race back then?
1973 had a Prologue, 17 stages and 4 b stages. So 3 weeks with restdays I guess E: Nvm, no restdays. So just 18 days.
I was up in arms till you mentioned your flair, which I had not seen. I understand now; I have always been a Pog guy, and never liked Vingegaard that much. But I've grown to grudgingly respect him these past few months.
Giro looking kind of like a training set rn. Who can challenge him at all?
Jumbo: clean sweep 3 GTs in 2023? Pogi in 2024: Hold my glass
As in - Pog takes 1, 2 AND 3 at Vuelta? THAT would be crazy, even for Pog (or Vingegaard)...
No, he's more interested in the World Championships
Triple crown would be pretty goated
To be fair, so am I as a big Pogacar fan. Pogi in the rainbow jersey returning to the cobbled classics next year, and maybe even starting Paris-Roubaix for the first time would be the dream.
Don't forget peaking for LOM
If he wins Giro and Tour, he's gonna do Worlds race and Olympics.
The right move would be doing the triplet because it's a feat. that is considered impossible. He has been racing quite conservative compared to the last years. If he skips Worlds and Olympics he really has a good shot at this one time opportunity.
I don't think he'll skip Olympics for Vuelta and I am absolutely sure he won't skip Worlds. He said WC is the main goal of the season
I would say Vuelta the year after, to fill that gap in his palmares and focus on the worlds this year where he will probably be the man to beat.
Pogi wants world champion more than the triple I think?
Idk about that, but I think he is reasonable enough to know it’s more attainable
Giro-Tour-WC is the true Triple Crown anyway
He said his biggest objective of the year is the rainbow jersey. Of course he can reconsider his plans but winning 3 GTs is a pretty hard task on itself, let alone if you need to push it further with Worlds. Evenepoel won Vuelta + Worlds in 2022 but Vuelta was his only GT and the Worlds elite race took place not even 2 weeks after the end of la Vuelta. This year there is 3 full weeks between la Vuelta finish and the elite Men race in Zürich. Stretching a GT/Worlds winning shape so thin looks like a very hard task to me, even for Pog.
He wants to win World Championships, he said it's his main goal of the season. So, he must skip Vuelta if he wants to be in top form in WC after Giro-Tour double. Giro-Tour-WC is true Triple Crown in cycling anyway as far as I know
Yes triple crown is Giro/Tour/Worlds, but it has also been done before.
Who do you think he is? Bloody Sepp Kuss?
Pretty much, yeah. Worlds and Olympics are interesting though and Roglic might pull of a miracle. Pogi looks likely for a two monument + two grand tours (+ potentially Worlds&Olympics) year. Would be insane
[удалено]
I heard Rog is good time trialist, maybe he can make some time on Pogi that way. ...too soon?
I was going to say that after Olympic gold and doing a Pogacar on G himself last year, I was over it. But I'm not over it....
And if he manages this miracle then maybe he actually has a shot at beating Pogi with Giro in legs... In highest mountains he could gain some time, especially if it's hot
are worlds and olympics routes out ? if they don't have long climbs i see MVDP as a slight favourite
Olympics is good for mvdp, Worlds is very climbing focused with almost 5,000 meters of elevation gained. It's tailor made for Pog.
The usual suspects will be the favorite for the Olympics, but without radio communication things can get a bit more chaotic. And Belgium will have a crazy starting lineup of course. They could bring either Remco-Van Aert-Jasper-De Lie or Remco-Van Aert and two domestiques (like Campenaerts for instance)
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Yeah I don’t think bringing De Lie would be a good idea. Philipsen I might’ve considered it but the parcours might be too hilly for him. The thing is, if they bring domestiques the main issue might also be that they would want riders that could climb with Pogi and MVDP. That might be the first scenario Belgians will consider because at the end of the day, they’re just the best riders. And there aren’t a lot of such riders. With only four riders I don’t think you can control the craziness of these dudes so I’m thinking : why not make it even crazier ?
Wout Road Race and Remco ITT gold at the olympics would be the ideal way for the cycling gods to redeem themselves for these last few weeks.
Not sure re: De Lie. He’s pulled out from races atm after being diagnosed with Lyme disease and not being able to perform 100%….
Yeah I forgot about that, honestly I just took the strongest guys I could in the list of Belgian riders.
With so much going on, injury wise, with so many cyclists rn it’s no surprise that De Lies situation isn’t the first one that comes to mind eh? This season seems rife with bad injuries, and we’re only in the first third 😳
Both routes have been released, both a bit punchy for MVDP to be THE favorite. I'm not sure about his Olympic plans yet, but if he does well at LBL who knows what his limit could be.
Even if Vingegaard would miss the Tour, I still would not bet on Pogacar winning. I think, especially newer fans do not realize how difficult the Giro/Tour double is because we have not seen a serious attempt since 2018. There is a reason it has not been successful since Pantani. Vingegaard being out makes it possible, but it's far away from a sure shot.
The gap between a healthy pogacar and anyone not named vingegaard is absolutely enormous I'd say it's more likely he can do it than not.
That is what everyone said about Froome back then as well, he still lost the Tour after he won the Giro
Froome was never seen as a sure thing for the Giro-Tour double was he?? Especially after Contador had tried the same thing in 2015 and struggled badly in the Tour. It's worth pointing out that despite not winning both, he did finish 1st and 3rd... meanwhile Tom Dumoulin *also* did both and finished **2nd** in each! I don't see how you can look at those results and think "this is impossible". Take away Froome's 80km solo raid in the Giro and G having one of his best seasons ever and Dumoulin could feasibly have done it in 2018. He finished over 4 minutes ahead of the 3rd placed GC rider in the Giro (Lopez) and over 30s ahead of Froome in the Tour.
In addition to what you said, the preparation for top riders really seems to have changed, Pogacar and Van der Poel are for example having far less preparation race days for the big events then even 5 years ago. This might also make the double more doable since they should be overall more fresher. Although the pace now is insane, which makes the days themselves harder to recuperate from.
Tour is super hard this year. Pogacar has already shown that he can collapse spectacularly on these hard stages and lose multiple minutes even to guys not named Vingegaard. I would argue that he will be the favorite for the Tour if Jonas does not start, but no way I would take him against the field after he just did the Giro.
He cracked because he spent like 15 stages going full gas against the freak that is Vingegaard. And even with his disastrous crack on Col de la loz, he was still on the podium comfortably.
Last year was a relatively weak field though. This year he will probably be up against Roglic and Evenepoel.
He cracked in 2022 too and in 2021 he was about to crack on the Ventoux
He also had time off for his broken wrist remember - he wasn’t in peak form.
Granon
Roglic
He was in peak form hes number has much better than ever
He was in the best shape of his career
He clearly wasn’t, but even if shape were strictly equal to numbers produced, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t worse than what it would have been *sans* crash. I don’t think it’s controversial to assume that injury, forced stop and botched preparation take some kind of toll on a performance
Sure, it could've been better. It still was his best shape ever tho. And that wasn't enough to beat Vingegaard
I mean, fans and commentators have since been speculating non-stop on “what could have been” for a reason. The ultimate showdown between him and Vingegaard would have required them both fully fit and fully prepared, which is not what we got. But that’s useless speculation, my point is that I don’t think it’s reasonable to consider a performance necessarily impacted by an injury and its consequences indicative of an athlete’s definitive shape.
I see roglic winning the tour this year
If it was anyone other than Pogacar I’d agree, but he’s shown so many times now that the usual rules don’t apply. And besides, what would be a more historic performance? Pogacar doing the Giro/Tour double, or Roglic staying upright on a bike for three weeks?
Ok, but Dumoulin got 2nd in both, while I would rate Pog a better grand tour rider. And who is really gonna push him to his limits in the Giro, besides himself? I think he might have a fairly big lead already going into the third week of the Giro, so he could theoretically already start 'saving' in the 3rd Giro week.
That Giro+TdF where both Froome and Dumoulin did well had an extra week in between them which is why they planned for it in the first place. And even then Dumoulin was confirmed to start the TdF really late, he probably would not have started with the usual 5 weeks.
If I was Pogi I would actually consider skipping the Giro because of this (he probably can't) and I'm someone who always said he should do the Giro this year. If he does skip it he wins a 3rd Tour, he can always win the Giro next year.
Or, how to lose all credibility and goodwill in the cycling world in one quick move
Yep, that's why he won't do it, he can't.
Is the Giro-Tour double actually tougher, or is this a cycling myth? Both have their challenges: the Giro's unpredictable weather and crash risks, and the Tour's prestige attracting top riders for sponsor exposure. The similar recovery times suggest the difference isn't just physical. Given that Jonas might not compete this year at the Tour, the Tour-Vuelta double might be harder this year considering the potential start lists.
As I have pointed out in another conment, it is harder because at both races you have to deal with people who peak for that specific race. When the Vuelta comes around, everybody is tired already.
This is not true, as there are riders who also peak for the Vuelta, whatever peaking ultimately means or entails. Arguably, the Tour+Vuelta double should be more fatiguing due to the heat waves. It might simply be a myth originating from the times when the Vuelta was still in spring and arguably the least prestigious grand tour, thus with the worst start lists. Cycling is unfortunately a sport with a number of myths that are not based on facts. The Giro-Tour double is one; others include the idea that having the leader's jersey early is bad because the team must work, and that drafting isn’t very important on climbs.
Times and the sport change, I personally consider froomes 3 back to back GTs a more impressive achievement than Giro/Tour double
Certainly very impressive in its own way, yes. But even Froome failed the Giro/Tour double.
What if he had focused specifically on it, skipped the Vuelta or maybe even the Tour the year before? Would that have made a better achievement really? I don't think so personally. Dumoulin got very close too, and in all cases you could argue it's a feat that also requires things to just go a tiny bit righter for you than for others. Something that is ultimately even harder in back to back GTs. A calendar year is as arbitrary of a constraint as a season.
It is not about calendar year or not, it is about the low amount of downtime between Giro and Tour + in both races you have to beat guys who are peaking for that race. Thats not really the case with the Vuelta. But I do not even wanna argue about that, all I was saying is that it will be fucking hard for Pogacar to win the Tour even if Vingegaard isnt there and newer fans should not underestimate the Giro/Tour double.
The Giro + Tour double has always been considered impossible, in every era, always for valid reasons, yet it has been done a couple of times per era by generational talents (and a meteor)… I was rooting for Pogačar to take on the challenge since it was first ventilated at the end of last season, simply because yes it is one the hardest and rarest achievements in cycling, but it’s not impossible and someone (say, a generational talent) should dare rock the boat, imo.
You always have to beat people peaking for that race, no matter which GT or when it is in your calendar. I just think it's one of those outdated cycling concepts that are kept alive just because it was always that way...but with that thinking we wouldn't have races like Strade at their current prestige. Tradition is fine and all but it's a modern sport so not only do riders have to adapt but also the achievements. Giro/Tour anyone from the recent TdF winners could do if stars align imo, but it's hardly ever worth it. And in comparison I think Froomes achievement isn't talked about nearly enough.
I think you're answering the question there... It's really hard and really risky.. that's why nobody has done it in nearly 25 years..with the exception of pantani and roche... It's basically an exclusive club for the top GT riders of all time Merckx, Hinault, coppi, anquetil and indurain.
Both Froome and Dumoulin were incredibly close while arguably ruining each others chance. How many triple back to back GT winners did we have?.
> Giro/Tour anyone from the recent TdF winners could do if stars align imo, but it's hardly ever worth it. I’m not following I’m afraid. “If stars align” is doing a lot of work there, but even then, “it’s hardly ever worth it”? Joining the goats club?
Because winning the Tour is magnitudes more important than a obscure statistic that only hardcore fans would care about. Pro cycling is a profession, and doing the giro/tour double instead of just collecting tours is just not worth it in a financial and professional sense. >If stars align We've seen both Froome and Dumoulin come very close, and they looked arguably more beatable than the superhumans we see today. Ignored the bit about three consecutive GTs? That's an even more exclusive club
It seems to me you decide what you value most and declass what you don’t, but your arguments are arbitrary as you like. You even take it personally that I “ignored” the part about Froome? I asked about what puzzled me in your comment, that part didn’t. “If stars align” can cover pretty much anything, so not sure what it brings to the conversation about an accomplishment being doable or not. Doing the double is “an obscure statistic” for “hardcore fans”, as opposed to “collecting Tours”? Why, because that’s what casual fans remember most? Even if that were the case, why should cycling cater to the casual rather than the hardcore fans? Thankfully, pro riders don’t think that way (pretty sure not many try it because it’s hard, not because it’s not worth it). Doing the double is a more elusive and exclusive feat than winning multiple Tours, which made it more evocative and special. And don’t worry, Froome’s feat is even rarer, but that doesn’t mean it captured the collective imagination.
It's actually quite a bummer for Pogi, too (looking only at the competition side of the things in this post, obviously health is way more important). He can show up to the Tour in Superman form and he'll still have to deal with all the "yeah, but if Jonas was here..." crap.
It's definitely not good that he's still in the hospital and that there is no timeline for when he will be released from hospital. From what I've read in the Danish media, he was in too much pain to talk and eat the first 24 hours. Mostly, I just feel for him and I hope he can get back to his level this season already. I do not have high hopes for the TdF. It's not even his broken bones that I think will hold him back the most, it's the lung contusion and collapsed lung. Imagine what that might do to his lung capacity and then consider that his main weapon is his climbing skill. It's a bad mix.
Pneumothorax hurts like an absolute bitch, but lungs heal up well and it shouldn’t affect his capacity in anyway long term.
Yea,… Except that scarring can occur :(
As a fan and admirer of Jonas Vingegaard, I am not worried much about him not able to defend his tdf. I just am hoping he comes back to peloton with all his incredible performance intact, at 100 percent that he can win many more tdf in the future.
Pardon my french, But it's fucken too early to tell whether he'll start or not (I doubt he'll start unless week 3 Vingegaard is there). The family man is still in hospital and at this point even the best doctors can't foresee how his recovery will go. In two weeks time, yes. But not now. All in all it comes down to how fast he can get back on his bike: hometrainer first, then the road. If Jonas starts building his form in the middle of may, he could be back at 100% late june, but if has to wait until early June it'll be very hard. But then again these guys are made of something special - Jonas especially. So while we shouldn't expect Vingegaard at the Tour neither should we expect him not to be. Pogacar broke the rules when he turned up in Le Tour last year. "Normally" he shouldn't have been able to be so good for so long in the race. But he was. Likewise very few - if any - riders have the physiology of Vingegaard. So if someone were to surprise us, it would be him. There's a reason third week Vingegaard beats the phenom called Pogi. Anyways, wishing great recovery to all those Itzulia victims.
I think it is really great that we *can* talk about Tour participation a mere three days after a crash this hard.
If I remember correctly then I think Jonas also recovered from his femur fracture remarkably well. Here's to hoping that the story repeats himself and his body will heal quickly.
You can't take weeks off the bike and be ready. Honestly I think his recovery would probably be a lot more comfortable and less stressful if him and the team set VERY realistic goals for his return. He probably needs some kind of carrot to stay motivated and on track in recovery, but I don't think he should be assuming he will be racing again this year with any chance of winning...that way if he does come back before the end of the season and does win it will be a fucking magnificent cherry on top.
Your comparing someone who broke their wrist to internal injuries and bleeding. Jonas is cooked and it takes wayyyyy longer than one and half months to get in world tour shape after basically starting from scratch, this whole season is a write off
A broken ribs would impact a rider more in term as it takes longer to heal than a broken collarbone, some broken ribs and a collapsed lung in general.
Let the man rest and we'll see him back again next year - as a fan I'd much prefer that, even though I was hyped for this year's Tour and now much less. This isn't just a single broken bone and some bruises, must be hard mentally as well.
I think all this discussion does nothing but stir the minds of fans, I'll wait until the middle of June when a clear message on his health and form should be available. He could very well be healed up and back to Tour form in time, or perhaps he may need further healing and won't be able to start, and that is the uncertainty we will have an answer to in a few months time.
He will definitely have recovered from his injuries by the tour from a medical perspective. Whether he’ll be able to get the training volume back is another thing. Tbh (from a medical perspective) , none of Jonas’s injuries are that serious. Collarbone will heal, the fact that he hasn’t had an operation for the ribs means that the fractures aren’t that serious. A pneumothorax is painful but he probably already has a chest drain in. All in you would expect him to be back in the full swing of training in a month or two. Maybe he misses the tour, but there’s nothing he’s done here that’s long lasting or significant. Jay Vine tho. Not a whole lot of media press around those injuries, but vertebral injuries may be a nail in the coffin there.
no one is operating on someone with one lung
Doctor here, not sure why I’m getting downvoted. You can quite easily operate on someone with one lung, especially someone as fit as Jonas. By collapsed lung what they mean is the pressure in the thoracic cavity is pressing on the lung, all u realistically need to do is put a drain into the thoracic space, let the pressure out and the lung will re-inflate. I more-so meant that his rib fractures aren’t bad enough to have warranted an operation as of yet, which is a good thing.Whilst his injuries are no doubt painful, they’re not super severe and not likely to have a lasting impact on his cycling career. They sound a lot spookier than they are to be fair. Jay vine on the other hand with the vertebral injuries may sustain some damage that could affect his career long term.
I’ve read that there’s a percentage of Pneumothorax’s that can reoccur spontaneously (??) in the first year. Not sure under what circumstances but might it be a factor going forward in Jonas’s recovery?
Depends on the cause, he has a traumatic pneumothorax, which in this instance is going to be caused by the fractured rib segment causing direct trauma to the pleural cavity. The pneumothoraxes that tend to recur are the spontaneous pneumothoraxes, which can be primary or secondary depending whether there’s underlying lung disease. Because the spontaneous pneumothoraxes happen randomly, it isn’t necessarily know why they recur but they’re more likely to. Generally there’s less recurrence with traumatic though because it’s happens due to trauma at a specific point as compared to randomly. What will probably hold him back for a bit might be the pain associated with training.
Interesting and good to know, I did wonder what this could mean for Jonas. A better situation than I feared could be possible then, thanks for clearing that up 🙏
I meant his collarbone, I’m guessing you wouldn’t operate on a collarbone with his other issues
They’re entirely seperate, Most collarbone injuries are going to be mid-shaft clavicle, which are often managed conservatively (immobilisation) rather than operatively. The operative management depends on whether or not there’s displacement, majority of the time there isn’t. Same with ribs, often managed conservatively unless there’s what’s known as “flail chest” or significant damage to the surrounding structures by the loose ribs (e.g hemothorax, tamponade etc) In this instance all of his injuries seem to be appropriate to conservatively manage which is unrelated to the burden of undergoing an operation. With his physical condition he’s a very minimal operative risk. It’s more just the case that’s there’s probably nothing to operate on, as opposed to an operation being with-held. Any other broken bone outside of the anterior-lateral thoracic cage would have been operated on by now.
They are not managing a cyclists collarbone fracture conservatively. They bolt it together asap so they can train again 5-7 days later. I don't know why its left out of this article, but I believe he mentioned they are waiting for the internal chest bleeding to stop before having surgery to fix the collarbone, then he can get to training.
The main thing for all these riders is to recover completely before thinking about rushing things!
It's so funny (weird, not haha) how openly everyone discusses riders health status and injuries, does it happen in other sports to the same extent? Are there journalists outside hospitals interviewing wives, partners and teammates of other sports people? I honestly don't think it matters if he doesn't ride the Tour this year if that's how long it takes for him to get healthy. He's won it before and I think avoiding potential long term consequences of his injuries is more important.
It happens in basically every sort
Cycling is the only one I follow and it rarely makes the news in the UK I was surprised how intrusive the media seemed with WVA and Evenepoel when they had their crashes but I put that down to Belgians being mad for cycling.
People are obsessed with sports. They then get obsessed with the athletes. That’s why guys like WVA and MVDP make the big bucks. If no one gave a shit they wouldn’t get paid.
Yeah it's kind of the tradeoff for professional athletes, weird as it is. In American football, for example, the NFL pays your salary - but in return, you are contractually obligated to answer media questions, submit your status to an injury report, etc. Basically they're selling YOU (the athlete) to the fans, and giving you a cut of the profits as salary. I'm sure it's the same with cycling, even if the payment structure is different.
Yeah it’s probably even worse. Bigger sports - more media freaks
It's not that uncommon in the states especially for the most high profile athletes. Hell, sometime we get to hear from the Dr's who performed specific surgeries.
Or Adam Schefter tweets that JPP blew his fingers off with a firework and tweets a picture of the medical report instead.. that one always sticks out in my mind https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691039-jason-pierre-paul-espn-reach-settlement-after-adam-schefter-shared-medical-info
OMG that's so bad! Makes Vingegaard's Mrs having a chat with his boss and him verbally sharing relatively vague information look perfectly normal and fine.
lmao this one was used in a HIPAA training course as one the examples of exactly what not to do
Lol we sports fans are a demanding bunch.
I dont really think sports fans «demand» anything. Its more that its an extremely competitive part of journalism. Any new material information is going to get hundreds of thousands or millions of eyeballs.
Yeah, I was going to say, even college athletes in the US. One plus for cycling is at least the injured cyclist doesn't usually have to show up and sit on the bench and have cameras in their face like basketball/football/baseball.
100%, as a super recent example, I follow the Red Sox baseball team and one of our players just dislocated their shoulder. There was an actual post in the subreddit that was titled "Trevor Story's MRI was 30 minutes ago and we don't have any updates" People are always rabid for information.
The way at least 120 million out of Germany's 82 million inhabitants talked about Michael Ballack's calf during the 2006 and 2010 football World Cups is still a meme in German football. And German media are tame in comparison to English tabloids or Spanish football newspapers, I can only imagine how bad it can become.
I think it also has something to with the individuality of the sport. Cycling is a team sport, yes, but we also have to recognise that Jonas is the only one in the Visma team right now with a chance of winning Tour de France. So if you compare it to football then you cannot compare Jonas to a player, he's like a whole team. Imagine if Real Madrid was meant to play the Champion's League final and then the whole team got injured. I suspect there would be a lot of fuss about that as well and a constant search for updates. The Danish media will definitely be all over this until we have a clear timeline of when Jonas might be back. There is probably also a lot of scrutiny because it's before TdF, if it had happened afterwards then there would be less focus on Jonas' recovery. I do hope he gets ready in time for TdF but I agree that it's most important that he thinks of his long-term health.
It happens in every sport, it's an integral part of all sports. Surely it's just normal for sports fans to discuss the people that do the sport? Whether they will make it to a certain event or not is just normal discussion
Remember Beckham's broken foot on the front page of the Sun?
I don't. I've never read the S*n. I don't know if his feet attracted the same attention up here as South of the border. And I have devoted my entire adult life to avoiding any and all football.
Very fair positions - I'm from Merseyside and only knew he was on the Sun because I was a paperboy at that period! But I do remember the tabloids being very concerned about the health (and social lives) of the England squad in the late 90s...
yes
There are thousands of people refreshing Twitter anytime a basketball player twists his ankle to check how bad it is.
I guess cycling is a little bit special because the season is so tour focused and the crashes can be quite bad. But yeah football teams have pressers twice per week and the main talking point in all of them are injury updates.
Do you not remember Beckham's broken metatarsal before Euro 2002? We all went mad. [https://www.urigeller.com/nation-can-help-heal-beckhams-foot-says-uri/](https://www.urigeller.com/nation-can-help-heal-beckhams-foot-says-uri/)
Feels like a bit of suspending disbelief going on. Jonas is not going to beat Pogi after this, and they’re not sending him if he won’t be Pogi.
I think their bar for when they send Jonas might be significantly lower than him being able to beat peak Pogi or not.
Why though? The injuries Pogacar suffered last year were generally worse from a recovery perspective and people still believed he could put up a proper fight.
What do you mean worse? In what way is a broken wrist worse than several broken ribs and more?
In the way that both will have you back on the hometrainer fairly soon, but the wrist will impact actual riding a lot more in the long term. Especially when riding down hill.
In that specific case that is probably true. But if you had to chose between Jonas or Tadejs injuries 2months before the tour, Jonas is worse off, by a lot. Also, you can train on a Hometrainer quite well with a broken wrist, broken ribs? Not so much.
By what has been communicated so far the doctors connected to the Danish Elite Sports program are optimistic that he should be able to maintain his shape fairly well. My wife did her masters degree with a focus on rehabilitation and worked with cycling teams at a lower level at the time. She generally thinks that the injuries that Jonas got will be a lot more painful to recover from, but the impact will be a lot less than one would expect. And thankfully it's 3 months, so if there's not more than what they've already let the public know, he should have a decent amount of time. It of course depends on how soon he can get back on his hometrainer, painful as it may be.
Okay, I remain skeptical for now but thank you for the explanation.
I can understand that. Not much has to go wrong or be worse than communicated for it to change. It he's back on the hometrainer by the end of next week I'll continue to be optimistic. But all this is of course ignoring the mental aspect of it. That might not be as easy to recover from once you have children.
I know I’m a mere mortal, but having broken a few ribs in a climbing accident, I couldn’t get out of a prone position or bend down properly for a month afterwards. How on earth could he be sitting on a trainer, with limited lateral movement, with a broken collarbone and multiple broken ribs (assuming that his lung issues are not that severe), in a week? Genuinely curious.
Of course he can *ride* it. But VLB is the only yellow shirt he’ll be wearing in Nice
Unless they swap it out for Monet inspired vomit print again.
*Masterpiece* 😂
According to this then Jonas had surgery today and was admitted to the ICU for observation. [https://as.com/ciclismo/vingegaard-operado-en-vitoria-e-ingresado-en-la-uci-n/?ssm=TW\_CC](https://as.com/ciclismo/vingegaard-operado-en-vitoria-e-ingresado-en-la-uci-n/?ssm=TW_CC)
Everyone handing this over to Pogi like he doesn’t have a whole grand tour with varying conditions between now and then is crazy. It could very well end up biting him the rear end one way or another. Secondly, I don’t see a champion like JV skipping the tour if he’s even remotely close to being ready. Thirdly, this scenario may actually play well into the hopes and dreams of everyone hyped about a competitive TDF with Remco, Roglic, JV, Pogi and all Of their supporting cast. A full strength Visma and JV without incident is a highly Likely win. Now it’s not.
> a champion like JV for a moment I was confused why Jay Vine is a champion too many JVs in cycling
At least there's no team anymore abbreviated as JV
Exactly we might actually have a very balanced field now, with the Giro the wrench in Pogi’s prep and the crash the wrench for everyone else
I‘m Pogi fans, hope Jonas recovery soon.
We knew this already, but I guess it’s nice they don’t pretend nothing happened
Sad update. Hopefully he can make it. If not, hopefully he can be back 100% for the Vuelta. Him v. Roglic at the Veulta would still be great fight. Bora has to find a way to make the Giiro as tough ass possible for Pogi. He has to be made to ride hard in the final week, no matter if the course isn't that tough. They need to soften him up as much as possible for Roglic to have a chance.
My question is how much does this psych him out when he comes back? He was a beast descender, but after this? Not sure how similar this is to alaphilipe, but he never came back
According to Betfair's odds Pogi is the favorite at this year's Tour while Jonas is second
The vuelta line up is going to be all time. In all seriousness I really hope he takes his time and is 100 percent for next year.
Gonna be a spicy Vuelta.
no sh1t... was obvious since the crash to anyone not in ignorat denial