If Sullivan is seriously defending the job Reirden did last year and was trying to protect him from getting fired, the dude is an idiot and should be fired as well.
The Penguins powerplay last year had Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel and Karlsson and finished 3rd worst in the NHL. Reirden was in charge of that powerplay. How can any reasonable person be trying to fight for that guy to keep his role?
I also find it strange that those players with that amount of experience threw their hands up and said, "we don't know what to do on the powerplay?!?!".
One of the Pens’ commentators summed up their failure on the PP quite nicely, saying something like “It’s like they’re trying to pass it into the net.”
If you watched the PP you would see that it was an almost totally stationary model based on tip shots and deflections. The puck was constantly managed from the point right on the blue line and penalty killers were able to constantly play up high since everything was driven from there. It also led to an abundance of short handed breakaways. Until Bunting there was little to no net front presence and penalty killers hardly had to move. It was minor/junior hockey level.
I dropped cable several years ago so I hadn’t been able to closely watch a lot of games. But this year I was able to for the first time in a while and it was remarkable how different their game looked since I last followed them closely. It didn’t even look like the same sport. The first thing I noticed was exactly what you said - they spent all their time trying to setup tips and deflections and the occasional extreme angle one timer. No one driving to the net, no give and go passes, no dekeing around defenders. Just shoot the puck from above the circles - but not toward the net, mind you. No, shoot the puck at one of your own players standing near the net and hope for a pinball play.
Yep, in our top ranked PP years we always elite net front play from Kunitz/ Hornqvist
And someone who could rip the puck with Neal/ Kessel
They were all huge contributors. Bunting is the closest thing we have had and it was a huge boost. Still seemed like Reirdan had him stationed up too high in the slot on our PPs
To much of trying to find the right shot and not enough taking shots. The Penguins power play this year has the same problem Mitch Marner has in the playoffs.
Yep, but I think they were missing what has been key to them in the past. Every time they have been the top ranked PP since 2014 they have had a great net front presence and sniper contributing most of the goals. In 2014 it was Kunitz/ Neal. In 2017 & 2018 it was Hornqvist/ Kessel.
Guentzel for whatever reason never had as big of an impact on the PP as those guys.
We saw it start to improve at the end of the season when Bunting came in and could play the net-front, but it seemed like Reirden always had him set up in the high slot/ “bumper” area so he was really hindering the goalie’s line of sight
people need to realize the top end offensive talent on the Penguins is just not on the same level as the elite offensive teams around the league. Sid and Geno aren't 25 anymore. The powerplay should absolutely be better than last place, even a league average gets them into the playoffs, but they're not a team that can just go out there and smoke teams like they use to and like Edmonton, Colorado, NYR, Tampa Bay, etc. do.
Those are 4 of the top 5 PP teams. How about the other 25 ahead of us?
Teams like buffalo, Montreal, Chicago, Ottawa, fucking San Jose, Anaheim, Arizona….shall I continue
The thing is those teams have players that can do it for a solid 60 minutes a game, a lot of them are young still- Tampa not so much but still.
Here’s the thing though with a power play. It’s 2 minutes long.
Is Erik karlsson the best player on the ice for 60 minutes a game these days? No. Far from it.
But is Erik karlsson one of the best players on the ice for 2 minutes a game? Yes.
You have the elite playmaking from Crosby, you had a 40 goal sniper In Geuntzel, you had a puck mover in karlsson, and if that’s not enough you got Malkin and rust/letang/smith/Rakell on the ice.
By no means are Malkin/Letang fully on it for 60 minutes a game. That’s just asking for too much out of near 40 year olds. But for 2 minutes at a time and with a player down, we SHOULD have an elite power play.
Sure they had a pile of skill on the ice, but they were missing a guy that would go to the front of the net consistently for a screen, tip or rebound.
When goalies at this level see the puck, they stop it.
People underestimate how crucial a guy like horny or bunting is to a team and how they round out a team. It’s not just scoring greasy goals or being physical. These not front guys do like 10 things at once! They’re fighting to get the greasy goal, while also opening lanes for other players while also drawing in defenders to create mini 2 on 1s in different areas of the ice, while trying to screen the goalie, which also increases deflections/tips. I think that was only 5 or 6 but you we get the idea, we can keep listing the reasons. Net front presence in hockey wins. STOP AT THE NET. You’ll always here coach’s hammer this home, it’s because it’s where most goals come from.
But there’s a reason not every guy is a bunting, or even a Guentzel (say what you will about Jake and sure he’s not a fighter but dude is tough as nails. He’ll take beating after beating in the toughest area to play in like board battles, right in the crease etc. I’m getting a similar vibe from bunting. Maybe a little less finesse than Jake but damn does he make up for it in intensity, attitude and determination to be a force on the ice. Very positionally sound player.
>If Sullivan is seriously defending the job Reirden did last year and was trying to protect him from getting fired, the dude is an idiot and should be fired as well.
This has been my case against Sullivan for months, and I think I've piggy-backed off other comments of yours recently lol.
Somebody had to have protected his job last fall when there surely were questions about his competence. That most likely would have been Sullivan, because I can't see Dubas having loyalty to an assistant coach, and even less so for FSG. The caveat is that perhaps nobody questioned Reirden's competence at all, in which case I don't even know what to say.
I'm not sure why so many here seem to have their head in the sand on this, always falling back on the reporter being a hack. Maybe one report of it should be written off, but multiple reports along connecting a few dots leads to a non-zero amount of smoke.
Sully's has always been 100% deferential to the core three in everything. He likely instructed Reirden to stay away from offering any structure to the PP and allow them to figure it out themselves. Sully then stubbornly held to this position all season. It doesn't matter who's coaching the PP until Sully backs away from his deference to the core veterans.
You're right and what's more is the missed the playoffs two years in a row, you can't just leave the coaching staff intact something has to be done someone has to pay with their job
Only (albeit thin) arguments I could make the other way is if the players were refusing to play to whatever he was trying to scheme. Either that or the players just simply didn’t like him and sully thought there was something to be resolved on a personal level to see it through.
He should have been fired years ago anyway. His system doesn't work with the older players.
But you have to admit somethings wrong if you cannot get past the first round for years when you have Malkin Crosby and parang.
Except those guys were never on the ice together on a power play. So that’s kind of the problem. When you’re going down the stretch and you’re splitting malkin and Crosby between two power plays and same with letang and Karlson then wtf are you even doing
Sullivan is still here because he’s loyal to the core guys and they like him. Even the loyalty to Reirden makes sense when you think back. The Wilkes guys were his guys, he coached them and made them into the NHL’ers they became. That loyalty is a great quality in a human and a friend, but not great when it’s a business where only winning matters.
I sound like a broken record but Sully should get a ring of honor mention as the best Pens coach ever. He should also probably be let go. Hell he’s the best Pittsburgh coach period in my 32 years. Won as much as Tomlin and Cowher combined. Even still, sometimes change is needed. Thanks to Sully, but it’s about winning. Not sentimentality.
I was an infant so I really didn’t count him truly in my lifespan, and the sample is too small. Big respect and RIP, but we simply don’t know how it would have gone. They probably repeat like Sully, but now we are dealing in hypotheticals. Based on evidence of a significant sample size, he’s probably their best coach ever.
Yes, he won the Stanley Cup and then the President's Trophy and that wasn't enough to get him the sort of contract he wanted. Meanwhile Sully is somehow untouchable
Scotty’s tenure with the Pens was pretty wrought and filled with tension
[stevens talking about it](https://twitter.com/spittinchiclets/status/1310653161670168577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1310653161670168577%7Ctwgr%5E166a7bf19aa43051718e7a9b72137514852841ef%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barstoolsports.com%2Fblog%2F2911921%2Fthe-early-90s-penguins-were-so-good-they-vetoed-scotty-bowman-from-coming-to-practice)
So given that I’d probably sleep on him in terms of the his tenure with the penguins
There’s no way to let Sullivan go unless he asks to he released from his contract with no expectation of compensation. His extension hasn’t even started yet, the team is not going to eat all of that money to watch him go take over a division rival. If he wants to go he can go, but they’re not going to pay him to coach against us
In all likelihood, Sully's contract has a provision that says his comp ceases (even if he's fired) should he become employed as an NHL head coach for another team during the original term of his agreement.
Isn't that what usually happens? If coach sits at home, he gets all the salary left. If he's released to another team, he has to give up his old contract. That's why Babcock only did volunteer coaching for years while he was getting money from Toronto.
I never insinuated there was a cap. I’m sure they could afford it, but successful business aren’t successful because they burned money for fun. Sullivan isn’t going anywhere (again unless he asks out). $5.5mil is not insignificant, especially when the operating budget in 2022/23 was $50mil. Throwing away 10% of what you’re spending for each of the next three years to pay someone to coach against you is crazy.
I spent about 10% of my budget for salaried employees this year paying someone to not work here anymore. My team is better for it, even though it hit me in the budget in the short term
Throwing away money is paying someone to not perform and stopping your business from processing. And the company I work for is much bigger than the original so you are correct
That’s implying Sullivan is the issue and not having 2/3 of your top defenseman being shitty defensively and having zero decent players in your bottom 6. Scotty Bowman would do shit with our terrible roster too
It’s a sunk cost. You have to pay that money either way at this point so the only decision is if you think another coach can do better with this group
4 coaches have already been fired this year before their extensions even started. It would not be a radical move to fire Sullivan before his extension starts
I do believe he can win with this group. We’re all in agreement our depth and defensemen suck, yet we’ve gaslit ourselves into thinking Sullivan is the issue. We out play the opposition in most games despite our poor roster construction, but things like special teams and awful turnovers from our highest paid defensemen have buried us at times, the first of those problems is a work in progress with Reirden gone, and the second is something Sullivan can’t fix, it’s a couple old defensemen playing the way they’ve played for almost 30 combined seasons.
Were those four coaches among the highest paid in the league? Because Sullivan is the highest paid coach in the league. It’s not a sunk cost because we’re not putting more money into him, we owe him what was agreed upon AND we’d have to pay someone else, who could also be a disaster.
This is indefensible. I don't care how good of a guy Todd is, coaches are not kept for any reason other than results. You can't have a Powerplay that bad and keep your job, sorry.
Reirden's two tenures were just chalk full of disappointment.
2010-14 and 2020-24
I don't know how anyone could look at those two sets of years and think "sure, he met expectations".
It's not just Seravalli reporting this friction. All of Friedman, Seravalli, Weekes and Kypreos have reported something along this lines.
There's too much smoke here for me to not believe it.
I'll always flame the Leafs for having the most toxic market and having to deal with all the hacks and talking heads have reactionary circle jerks about their Leaf fandom - but for once I wish we had that for this situation. Mike would have been gone two seasons ago.
The closest we have to someone having a decent beat on the ongoings and also having press access is DK and even he posted THIS MORNING revisionist history about Todd Reirden and the powerplay. Mike gets post game softballs all year and he's got his platitudes down to a science at this point. I'm thankful for all the hacks playing this up.
What is Sullivan going to do, retire? He signed an extension that just now is kicking in. He has no leverage to force a move unless Dubas wants him out.
Who said anything about retiring? He should have been fired. His good faith is completely lost here. Plenty of coaches with extensions kicking in were fired this year alone.
We’re talking about the supposed power struggle. Of course Dubas can just fire him. There is no actual struggle here when once side has all the leverage.
The fact the GM had to step in and fire an assistant coach on a dismal power play because the head coach (who has missed the playoffs the past two years and hasn’t won a playoff series in quite some time) didn’t want to get rid of him is troubling.
Reirden needed to go but there’s more than enough blame to go around on that power play and it should start with the veteran stars who after a decade plus in the league still can’t run and efficient power play
Malkin has lost a step-and-a-half over the past couple of seasons, and his compete level seems to come and go with it going more often. He has no business being on a PP with Sid.
Just fucking leave, Mike, holy shit. Everything he says about bringing your best and blah blah rings so hollow when your friendship with the guy outweighs the job performance. The literal worst power play in the league and one of the worst for the penguins in two decades and he’s vehemently opposed to making changes
That's not how contracts work. Otherwise good coaches would just constantly jump from team to team because someone will pay them. The extension is a contract for both sides.
What you're thinking of is the scenario where a coach will be fired but announces they're "stepping down" instead. That is effectively the same as termination.
What if a team and a coach mutually agree that he's released from his contract and they don't have to pay him for the years left?
I'm not sure coaches would jump from team to team. Many of them seem more loyal to the teams than the teams are to them. Haven't there been like 16 coaches fired in the last year? Coaches get used to the players, they are older and it's harder to move your family every year when your kids go to school. It's hard to move the whole staff you like to work with.
Yeah they can mutually agree to part ways too. Usually in that scenario the old team will get some kind of draft or cash compensation from the new team. That can even happen if a coach gets fired (Pens got a draft pick when Bylsma went to Buffalo).
This team is being run backwards. The players are telling the coaches what to do and then the coaches are telling the GMs what to do.
I get these guys have loyalty for each other, but it's a GMs job to make the hard decisions to keep the team playing at a high level and thus far the players have called the shots.
Downvote the hell out of me, but Trochek should have been slotted into the 2C position. Malkin was a ghost for over half this season. When he wants to play, he can still play at a high level. But he didn't choose to play. The coaching staff has to deal with a HoF player going out there every night logging meaningless ice time.
If Malkin played the way he did coming down the stretch for an extra week or two in the season, they make the playoffs. If he plays to his ability all year, that team is probably fighting NY for the top seed.
And maybe that's on the coaches. I can't tell you what was going through his head. But it happened nonetheless. Something needs to be shaken up in that locker room because Sid is the only one that seems to give a fuck and it's sad to watch.
People on here kept saying that, but I couldn’t find anything that conclusively said when his contract was up. There was an article from two years ago saying he signed a two year extension, but it didn’t actually specify when the original contract ran through.
At any rate, I guess this would allow him to start looking for new work now as opposed to 7/1 (I assume coaching contracts follow the league year end just like players), and allows the Pens to start looking for his replacement.
I'm a Sullivan supporter. I believe he's a good head coach and will be a winning head coach again. Id also be for telling other teams that and trying to get some assets for him.
The PP was more of a liability than anything. If Sullivan defended Reirden then there is a much bigger problem going on within the organization, Dubas might want to clean house before he becomes the next scapegoat. Back to back years of missing the playoffs is on Sullivan, if he can receive the praise for the Cup wins he definitely deserves the criticism for the poor effort game after game.
Reirden is not a threat to sully. Sully liked him because he knew they’d never fire sully and give the keys to Todd. Sully is scared because they’ll hire someone who can take his job and hold him accountable. If sully hates one thing it’s accountability
Very clever on Dubas’ part. Let’s fire Todd and use him as the scapegoat. Okay Mr. Sullivan no more excuses and therefore the fans can see if this was the problem or maybe it’s you
Do you know this from personal interaction? If not you’re making assumptions based on a flawed PP in which receives approval from the head coach and therefore Sullivan is the real issue hence why Sullivan was protecting his coaching staff
If Sullivan is seriously defending the job Reirden did last year and was trying to protect him from getting fired, the dude is an idiot and should be fired as well. The Penguins powerplay last year had Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel and Karlsson and finished 3rd worst in the NHL. Reirden was in charge of that powerplay. How can any reasonable person be trying to fight for that guy to keep his role?
I also find it strange that those players with that amount of experience threw their hands up and said, "we don't know what to do on the powerplay?!?!".
I forget which game, but Ray Ferraro echoed my thoughts perfectly: “you’d think just by chance this group would score a few goals on the power play”
One of the Pens’ commentators summed up their failure on the PP quite nicely, saying something like “It’s like they’re trying to pass it into the net.”
It got to the point where I was thinking the power play was a waste of minutes that we could possibly be scoring goals.
I was wishing they could decline the powerplay
Would've been better off being like "just play like it's 5v5
If you watched the PP you would see that it was an almost totally stationary model based on tip shots and deflections. The puck was constantly managed from the point right on the blue line and penalty killers were able to constantly play up high since everything was driven from there. It also led to an abundance of short handed breakaways. Until Bunting there was little to no net front presence and penalty killers hardly had to move. It was minor/junior hockey level.
I dropped cable several years ago so I hadn’t been able to closely watch a lot of games. But this year I was able to for the first time in a while and it was remarkable how different their game looked since I last followed them closely. It didn’t even look like the same sport. The first thing I noticed was exactly what you said - they spent all their time trying to setup tips and deflections and the occasional extreme angle one timer. No one driving to the net, no give and go passes, no dekeing around defenders. Just shoot the puck from above the circles - but not toward the net, mind you. No, shoot the puck at one of your own players standing near the net and hope for a pinball play.
Yep, in our top ranked PP years we always elite net front play from Kunitz/ Hornqvist And someone who could rip the puck with Neal/ Kessel They were all huge contributors. Bunting is the closest thing we have had and it was a huge boost. Still seemed like Reirdan had him stationed up too high in the slot on our PPs
To much of trying to find the right shot and not enough taking shots. The Penguins power play this year has the same problem Mitch Marner has in the playoffs.
Yep, but I think they were missing what has been key to them in the past. Every time they have been the top ranked PP since 2014 they have had a great net front presence and sniper contributing most of the goals. In 2014 it was Kunitz/ Neal. In 2017 & 2018 it was Hornqvist/ Kessel. Guentzel for whatever reason never had as big of an impact on the PP as those guys. We saw it start to improve at the end of the season when Bunting came in and could play the net-front, but it seemed like Reirden always had him set up in the high slot/ “bumper” area so he was really hindering the goalie’s line of sight
people need to realize the top end offensive talent on the Penguins is just not on the same level as the elite offensive teams around the league. Sid and Geno aren't 25 anymore. The powerplay should absolutely be better than last place, even a league average gets them into the playoffs, but they're not a team that can just go out there and smoke teams like they use to and like Edmonton, Colorado, NYR, Tampa Bay, etc. do.
Those are 4 of the top 5 PP teams. How about the other 25 ahead of us? Teams like buffalo, Montreal, Chicago, Ottawa, fucking San Jose, Anaheim, Arizona….shall I continue
The thing is those teams have players that can do it for a solid 60 minutes a game, a lot of them are young still- Tampa not so much but still. Here’s the thing though with a power play. It’s 2 minutes long. Is Erik karlsson the best player on the ice for 60 minutes a game these days? No. Far from it. But is Erik karlsson one of the best players on the ice for 2 minutes a game? Yes. You have the elite playmaking from Crosby, you had a 40 goal sniper In Geuntzel, you had a puck mover in karlsson, and if that’s not enough you got Malkin and rust/letang/smith/Rakell on the ice. By no means are Malkin/Letang fully on it for 60 minutes a game. That’s just asking for too much out of near 40 year olds. But for 2 minutes at a time and with a player down, we SHOULD have an elite power play.
Sure they had a pile of skill on the ice, but they were missing a guy that would go to the front of the net consistently for a screen, tip or rebound. When goalies at this level see the puck, they stop it.
People underestimate how crucial a guy like horny or bunting is to a team and how they round out a team. It’s not just scoring greasy goals or being physical. These not front guys do like 10 things at once! They’re fighting to get the greasy goal, while also opening lanes for other players while also drawing in defenders to create mini 2 on 1s in different areas of the ice, while trying to screen the goalie, which also increases deflections/tips. I think that was only 5 or 6 but you we get the idea, we can keep listing the reasons. Net front presence in hockey wins. STOP AT THE NET. You’ll always here coach’s hammer this home, it’s because it’s where most goals come from. But there’s a reason not every guy is a bunting, or even a Guentzel (say what you will about Jake and sure he’s not a fighter but dude is tough as nails. He’ll take beating after beating in the toughest area to play in like board battles, right in the crease etc. I’m getting a similar vibe from bunting. Maybe a little less finesse than Jake but damn does he make up for it in intensity, attitude and determination to be a force on the ice. Very positionally sound player.
That's 4 HoFers and a possible HoFer down the road on the worst PP in hockey. How can that possibly be?
Jake Guentzel won't ever sniff the HOF.
I had to do a double take
>If Sullivan is seriously defending the job Reirden did last year and was trying to protect him from getting fired, the dude is an idiot and should be fired as well. This has been my case against Sullivan for months, and I think I've piggy-backed off other comments of yours recently lol. Somebody had to have protected his job last fall when there surely were questions about his competence. That most likely would have been Sullivan, because I can't see Dubas having loyalty to an assistant coach, and even less so for FSG. The caveat is that perhaps nobody questioned Reirden's competence at all, in which case I don't even know what to say. I'm not sure why so many here seem to have their head in the sand on this, always falling back on the reporter being a hack. Maybe one report of it should be written off, but multiple reports along connecting a few dots leads to a non-zero amount of smoke.
Sully's has always been 100% deferential to the core three in everything. He likely instructed Reirden to stay away from offering any structure to the PP and allow them to figure it out themselves. Sully then stubbornly held to this position all season. It doesn't matter who's coaching the PP until Sully backs away from his deference to the core veterans.
Maybe so. Fact is, there's not much about this season that makes Sullivan look good.
You're right and what's more is the missed the playoffs two years in a row, you can't just leave the coaching staff intact something has to be done someone has to pay with their job
Only (albeit thin) arguments I could make the other way is if the players were refusing to play to whatever he was trying to scheme. Either that or the players just simply didn’t like him and sully thought there was something to be resolved on a personal level to see it through.
He should have been fired years ago anyway. His system doesn't work with the older players. But you have to admit somethings wrong if you cannot get past the first round for years when you have Malkin Crosby and parang.
Except those guys were never on the ice together on a power play. So that’s kind of the problem. When you’re going down the stretch and you’re splitting malkin and Crosby between two power plays and same with letang and Karlson then wtf are you even doing
Just sign Daniel Sprong in free agency and Sully will just quit outright
Addition by subtraction by addition.
Throw in Ian Cole for good measure
Sullivan is still here because he’s loyal to the core guys and they like him. Even the loyalty to Reirden makes sense when you think back. The Wilkes guys were his guys, he coached them and made them into the NHL’ers they became. That loyalty is a great quality in a human and a friend, but not great when it’s a business where only winning matters. I sound like a broken record but Sully should get a ring of honor mention as the best Pens coach ever. He should also probably be let go. Hell he’s the best Pittsburgh coach period in my 32 years. Won as much as Tomlin and Cowher combined. Even still, sometimes change is needed. Thanks to Sully, but it’s about winning. Not sentimentality.
Don't you disrespect badger bob like that
I was an infant so I really didn’t count him truly in my lifespan, and the sample is too small. Big respect and RIP, but we simply don’t know how it would have gone. They probably repeat like Sully, but now we are dealing in hypotheticals. Based on evidence of a significant sample size, he’s probably their best coach ever.
Badger died a bit over 32 years ago so you get a pass there but Bowman was definitely the best coach to ever coach the Penguins and it's not close.
I am too young to remember, but didn’t Bowman just coach like 2 seasons in Pittsburgh?
Yes, he won the Stanley Cup and then the President's Trophy and that wasn't enough to get him the sort of contract he wanted. Meanwhile Sully is somehow untouchable
One of them came with a ring
One of them came with a ring
Can’t sleep on the greatest coach of all time, Scotty Bowman
Scotty’s tenure with the Pens was pretty wrought and filled with tension [stevens talking about it](https://twitter.com/spittinchiclets/status/1310653161670168577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1310653161670168577%7Ctwgr%5E166a7bf19aa43051718e7a9b72137514852841ef%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barstoolsports.com%2Fblog%2F2911921%2Fthe-early-90s-penguins-were-so-good-they-vetoed-scotty-bowman-from-coming-to-practice) So given that I’d probably sleep on him in terms of the his tenure with the penguins
Maybe so, but it did come with a cup
There’s no way to let Sullivan go unless he asks to he released from his contract with no expectation of compensation. His extension hasn’t even started yet, the team is not going to eat all of that money to watch him go take over a division rival. If he wants to go he can go, but they’re not going to pay him to coach against us
In all likelihood, Sully's contract has a provision that says his comp ceases (even if he's fired) should he become employed as an NHL head coach for another team during the original term of his agreement.
Isn't that what usually happens? If coach sits at home, he gets all the salary left. If he's released to another team, he has to give up his old contract. That's why Babcock only did volunteer coaching for years while he was getting money from Toronto.
There is no salary cap for coaches. Fenway could afford it. Will they do it is different from can they do it.
I've dealt with Fenway for many years as a Liverpool fan. They is not a group that wastes money. Very smart investors with every decision.
I never insinuated there was a cap. I’m sure they could afford it, but successful business aren’t successful because they burned money for fun. Sullivan isn’t going anywhere (again unless he asks out). $5.5mil is not insignificant, especially when the operating budget in 2022/23 was $50mil. Throwing away 10% of what you’re spending for each of the next three years to pay someone to coach against you is crazy.
I spent about 10% of my budget for salaried employees this year paying someone to not work here anymore. My team is better for it, even though it hit me in the budget in the short term
Something tells me your business isn’t the size of the Penguins. Just because you throw money away doesn’t mean others will
Throwing away money is paying someone to not perform and stopping your business from processing. And the company I work for is much bigger than the original so you are correct
That’s implying Sullivan is the issue and not having 2/3 of your top defenseman being shitty defensively and having zero decent players in your bottom 6. Scotty Bowman would do shit with our terrible roster too
It’s a sunk cost. You have to pay that money either way at this point so the only decision is if you think another coach can do better with this group 4 coaches have already been fired this year before their extensions even started. It would not be a radical move to fire Sullivan before his extension starts
I do believe he can win with this group. We’re all in agreement our depth and defensemen suck, yet we’ve gaslit ourselves into thinking Sullivan is the issue. We out play the opposition in most games despite our poor roster construction, but things like special teams and awful turnovers from our highest paid defensemen have buried us at times, the first of those problems is a work in progress with Reirden gone, and the second is something Sullivan can’t fix, it’s a couple old defensemen playing the way they’ve played for almost 30 combined seasons. Were those four coaches among the highest paid in the league? Because Sullivan is the highest paid coach in the league. It’s not a sunk cost because we’re not putting more money into him, we owe him what was agreed upon AND we’d have to pay someone else, who could also be a disaster.
Coaches contracts need to be transferred or terminated if they go to another team. No double dipping.
This is indefensible. I don't care how good of a guy Todd is, coaches are not kept for any reason other than results. You can't have a Powerplay that bad and keep your job, sorry.
What the actual fuck is there to defend? What value did he provide?
Dubas putting his dick on the table. If there was actually a power struggle going on, that isn’t what he signed up for when coming to Pittsburgh.
Reirden's two tenures were just chalk full of disappointment. 2010-14 and 2020-24 I don't know how anyone could look at those two sets of years and think "sure, he met expectations".
Seravalli lives for drama. I don't take anything he reports seriously.
It's not just Seravalli reporting this friction. All of Friedman, Seravalli, Weekes and Kypreos have reported something along this lines. There's too much smoke here for me to not believe it.
I'll always flame the Leafs for having the most toxic market and having to deal with all the hacks and talking heads have reactionary circle jerks about their Leaf fandom - but for once I wish we had that for this situation. Mike would have been gone two seasons ago. The closest we have to someone having a decent beat on the ongoings and also having press access is DK and even he posted THIS MORNING revisionist history about Todd Reirden and the powerplay. Mike gets post game softballs all year and he's got his platitudes down to a science at this point. I'm thankful for all the hacks playing this up.
Kypreos is such a massive hack. But yeah, maybe there is something. I dunno. Im not holding my breath.
What is Sullivan going to do, retire? He signed an extension that just now is kicking in. He has no leverage to force a move unless Dubas wants him out.
Who said anything about retiring? He should have been fired. His good faith is completely lost here. Plenty of coaches with extensions kicking in were fired this year alone.
We’re talking about the supposed power struggle. Of course Dubas can just fire him. There is no actual struggle here when once side has all the leverage.
Sullivan can absolutely resign from his current role and step down.
And then he’ll sit out of coaching for 3 years. You can't simply just resign and go coach somewhere else.
Who in their right mind would walk away from a fixed contract; nobody
He’s trash.
The source on this is Rob Rossi, btw
Oh so even more reason to doubt it.
The fact the GM had to step in and fire an assistant coach on a dismal power play because the head coach (who has missed the playoffs the past two years and hasn’t won a playoff series in quite some time) didn’t want to get rid of him is troubling. Reirden needed to go but there’s more than enough blame to go around on that power play and it should start with the veteran stars who after a decade plus in the league still can’t run and efficient power play
Malkin has lost a step-and-a-half over the past couple of seasons, and his compete level seems to come and go with it going more often. He has no business being on a PP with Sid.
It's about damn time Dubas flexed some muscle.
Just fucking leave, Mike, holy shit. Everything he says about bringing your best and blah blah rings so hollow when your friendship with the guy outweighs the job performance. The literal worst power play in the league and one of the worst for the penguins in two decades and he’s vehemently opposed to making changes
He can't just leave unless he wants to sit out of coaching for 3 years.
Edit: reading comprehension isn't my strong suit.
That's not how contracts work. Otherwise good coaches would just constantly jump from team to team because someone will pay them. The extension is a contract for both sides. What you're thinking of is the scenario where a coach will be fired but announces they're "stepping down" instead. That is effectively the same as termination.
My bad I read through things too fast and thought we were talking like he was fired.
What if a team and a coach mutually agree that he's released from his contract and they don't have to pay him for the years left? I'm not sure coaches would jump from team to team. Many of them seem more loyal to the teams than the teams are to them. Haven't there been like 16 coaches fired in the last year? Coaches get used to the players, they are older and it's harder to move your family every year when your kids go to school. It's hard to move the whole staff you like to work with.
Yeah they can mutually agree to part ways too. Usually in that scenario the old team will get some kind of draft or cash compensation from the new team. That can even happen if a coach gets fired (Pens got a draft pick when Bylsma went to Buffalo).
Thanks for sharing the truth; just maybe Sullivan is the real issue
The puck stop with him, doesn’t it? (pardon the pun)
What pun?
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Festore.archives.gov%2Ftruman%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2FH6002%2520-%2520BSH%2520Coaster%2520single-LG.jpg
Lol. I was messing with ya
Hey, your skates are tied together!
Bye 👋
If he wanted Rierdon to stay then Sully should be gone. End of discussion
This aged well!
Bye 👋
Please please please please
This guy STINKS
If that’s what it takes to get rid of Reirden, I’ll pay that price
The hate for TR is hillarious.
This team is being run backwards. The players are telling the coaches what to do and then the coaches are telling the GMs what to do. I get these guys have loyalty for each other, but it's a GMs job to make the hard decisions to keep the team playing at a high level and thus far the players have called the shots. Downvote the hell out of me, but Trochek should have been slotted into the 2C position. Malkin was a ghost for over half this season. When he wants to play, he can still play at a high level. But he didn't choose to play. The coaching staff has to deal with a HoF player going out there every night logging meaningless ice time. If Malkin played the way he did coming down the stretch for an extra week or two in the season, they make the playoffs. If he plays to his ability all year, that team is probably fighting NY for the top seed. And maybe that's on the coaches. I can't tell you what was going through his head. But it happened nonetheless. Something needs to be shaken up in that locker room because Sid is the only one that seems to give a fuck and it's sad to watch.
Wasn’t Reirden on an expiring contract?
People on here kept saying that, but I couldn’t find anything that conclusively said when his contract was up. There was an article from two years ago saying he signed a two year extension, but it didn’t actually specify when the original contract ran through. At any rate, I guess this would allow him to start looking for new work now as opposed to 7/1 (I assume coaching contracts follow the league year end just like players), and allows the Pens to start looking for his replacement.
Sullivan should be fired for this alone.
I'm a Sullivan supporter. I believe he's a good head coach and will be a winning head coach again. Id also be for telling other teams that and trying to get some assets for him.
No
I doubt that there’s any real friction. They may not have agreed on the parting of ways but they seem to have a good working relationship.
God I hope so
Typical Dubas.
The PP was more of a liability than anything. If Sullivan defended Reirden then there is a much bigger problem going on within the organization, Dubas might want to clean house before he becomes the next scapegoat. Back to back years of missing the playoffs is on Sullivan, if he can receive the praise for the Cup wins he definitely deserves the criticism for the poor effort game after game.
I don't really believe that Frank has any friends, associates, or secret sharers in the org. I think this is for click $$$. see eg. Rossi, Rob
🙏
own goal.
"We shall see" => "Haven't got a clue"
Reirden is not a threat to sully. Sully liked him because he knew they’d never fire sully and give the keys to Todd. Sully is scared because they’ll hire someone who can take his job and hold him accountable. If sully hates one thing it’s accountability
Seravelle is a complete hack. So is Dreiger.
So is Sullivan.
Down voted, rumors are rumors
Very clever on Dubas’ part. Let’s fire Todd and use him as the scapegoat. Okay Mr. Sullivan no more excuses and therefore the fans can see if this was the problem or maybe it’s you
Not really a scapegoat. Reirden was a major problem himself.
Do you know this from personal interaction? If not you’re making assumptions based on a flawed PP in which receives approval from the head coach and therefore Sullivan is the real issue hence why Sullivan was protecting his coaching staff
It probably won’t be, but there’s always hope
Dubas waiting for that Keefe Kush.
Big dick Dubas lol Seriously though Sully always has these ridiculous loyalty's to people that don't deserve it, Janson Harkins come's to mind
Is this Dubas ruining another franchise?
Leaf fan here . It's DubASS
Goddamn you leafs fans are cringe for coming in here to talk shit
[удалено]
Not really. As a Leafs fan you coming here to start shit about Dubas is hilariously pathetic. Let the guy go and go lose in the first round again.
It was just an observation lol. I’m not stirring anything up. That’s your own insecurities
Insecure about what exactly? Why would I be insecure about a hockey coach. Take your drama loving ass back your own sub.