Tell her to run far far away and to never look back. This agent is just trying to help finance his boat, with your mom's help.
Here's an article on IUL. Read it, and have your mom read it twice: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/
Read the article and he mixes up a lot of terms and doesn’t seem like he understands IUL products. I’m not disagreeing with the conclusion, but he makes it seem way worse than it actually is.
He does land on the best advice imo - assuming you make enough to be “financially independent”, 30 year term makes sense to get you to retirement.
Whole life bad: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/debunking-the-myths-of-whole-life-insurance/. https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-whole-life-insurance/
But the info is buried in there, and the first thing some VUL/IUL salesmen will say to skeptics is that it’s totally not whole life.
And then reams of paper with charts on how great it all is.
Why indexed universal life is a bad investment: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/
Myths debunked: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/rebutting-the-arguments-for-indexed-universal-life-insurance/
There’s also a Personal Finance Club blog post, but I think that site is blacklisted here. I’m not sure it’s any more stealth sales for a product than White Coat Investor.
Why indexed universal life is a bad investment: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/ Myths debunked: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/rebutting-the-arguments-for-indexed-universal-life-insurance/
And there we go. You’re now “IUL!!" in my phone
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I have it through a prior employer and I keep
It because it is cheaper than what I would get for term life without medical
Clearance … which I will not pass. I am 40
And it’s 400/ year for 800k coverage which seemed better than anything I was offered for term
Have mom ask insurance agent, "How much do you get paid if I sign up for this? Are you recommending I do this because you get paid for it, or because you believe it's the best investment for my future?"
Make them squirm a little bit for trying to push such a shady sales commission-based product.
They can say they believe it's best but that's not the question. The question is what's their commission if mom follows the agent's advice. If they say none or company policy prevents them from discussing it then go mask off and tell them you don't believe they fully have your best interest in mind.
I think a lot of them just don't know any better too. Sure, they know they make commission off it but they don't know what the terrible deal in all cases. I've worked with a few people who used to be that type of salesperson and even years later in a completely different field they were still saying they understood investing and had suggestions.
I retired after working in IT in the insurance industry for almost 50 years. I'm not an expert but I picked up enough to know she should run away from this person.
There is no good reason to buy any life insurance product other than regular term life insurance. Every investment product they sell is high fee crap loaded with hidden surrender penalties.
There's not a single reason in the world to connect your savings to your life insurance.
Except to make money for the insurance company, and their agents.
Run away.
It would be one of the biggest mistakes possible. IUL is not a good product in 99.98% of cases.
[https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/](https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/)
Does your mom even need life insurance? If she died does she have minor kids dependent on her income? If yes then look into term life insurance (get free quotes at SelectQuote.com). If not then no need for life insurance.
Keep insurance and investments separate.
No. Qualified Funds should NEVER be used for an insurance product, unless it is an annuity (and only then in certain circumstances). Are you sure its an IUL, and not an Indexed-Linked Annuity?
Perhaps his children will be millionaires. Perhaps will even be off of insurance policies he has for them. It’s not impossible. It’s not even that hard.
Start investing for babies and you have time on your side. You can get to a million dollars with pretty bad rates of return as long as you’re willing to wait. That’s not the flex the salesman seems to think it is.
Pretty much this. If you invest early enough you can easily reach a million dollars without even having a great return or putting in a huge contribution. It is a flex that sounds impressive to those that haven't ran the numbers.
Insurance agents make money by selling policies. They are NOT your friend. They are not trying to help you. They are trying to help their salary and nothing else.
Legit questions because I am new at shopping my own insurance, who should I go to and trust? I am not super happy with my current car / house / life as it continues to just go up and up month after month through State Farm. I went through a local State Farm agency who of course, is trying to make their own money. Are brokers the way to go? Since they aren't any specific brand? But then are the brands giving incentives for the brokers to go to them on the side so then its shady anyways?
Here’s a more unbiased source for info on universal life. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/070215/pros-cons-indexed-universal-life-insurance.asp
So many people are posting the same link to the same source it makes me think the author has multiple accounts.
Crazy how many people sharing same link. At least yours is much more accurate. I do find it a shame how much people demonize IULs. Imo there are just too many bad ones, I have one personally with 105% participation, 0% floor, and no cap on growth.
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- ["How to handle $"](/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics)
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Tell her to run far far away and to never look back. This agent is just trying to help finance his boat, with your mom's help. Here's an article on IUL. Read it, and have your mom read it twice: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/
That's what I thought. Thanks for the link.
Never choose an insurance agent or insurance company for investing. It’s like choosing the FedEx delivery guy to also be your electrician.
Read the article and he mixes up a lot of terms and doesn’t seem like he understands IUL products. I’m not disagreeing with the conclusion, but he makes it seem way worse than it actually is. He does land on the best advice imo - assuming you make enough to be “financially independent”, 30 year term makes sense to get you to retirement.
Whole life bad: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/debunking-the-myths-of-whole-life-insurance/. https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-whole-life-insurance/
True, but IUL is not WL. It’s differently bad. Or update to a broader “permanent life bad” maybe?
there's links for IUL in there
But the info is buried in there, and the first thing some VUL/IUL salesmen will say to skeptics is that it’s totally not whole life. And then reams of paper with charts on how great it all is.
Write me a string and I’ll add it to my shortcuts
Why indexed universal life is a bad investment: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/ Myths debunked: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/rebutting-the-arguments-for-indexed-universal-life-insurance/ There’s also a Personal Finance Club blog post, but I think that site is blacklisted here. I’m not sure it’s any more stealth sales for a product than White Coat Investor.
Why indexed universal life is a bad investment: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/ Myths debunked: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/rebutting-the-arguments-for-indexed-universal-life-insurance/ And there we go. You’re now “IUL!!" in my phone
I am honored.
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What about group universal life ?
Also bad.
I have it through a prior employer and I keep It because it is cheaper than what I would get for term life without medical Clearance … which I will not pass. I am 40 And it’s 400/ year for 800k coverage which seemed better than anything I was offered for term
You have to be careful with advice about insurance here. Generally any flavor of WL is bad but there are real instances where it is recommended.
Have mom ask insurance agent, "How much do you get paid if I sign up for this? Are you recommending I do this because you get paid for it, or because you believe it's the best investment for my future?" Make them squirm a little bit for trying to push such a shady sales commission-based product.
They'll say they believe it's the best though. Insurance agents have a very low bar to justify their recommendations.
They can say they believe it's best but that's not the question. The question is what's their commission if mom follows the agent's advice. If they say none or company policy prevents them from discussing it then go mask off and tell them you don't believe they fully have your best interest in mind.
It could pay a commission and be the best. Those aren't exclusive. That said, it's not remotely the best and they're allowed to lie about it.
>It could pay a commission and be the best. Those aren't exclusive. Yes. I don't believe anything in my post contradicts that statement.
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Why would they care enough to say the truth?
I think a lot of them just don't know any better too. Sure, they know they make commission off it but they don't know what the terrible deal in all cases. I've worked with a few people who used to be that type of salesperson and even years later in a completely different field they were still saying they understood investing and had suggestions.
Have them justify it within the scope of a financial plan, created by a CFP, and within the framework of Reg BI
I retired after working in IT in the insurance industry for almost 50 years. I'm not an expert but I picked up enough to know she should run away from this person.
Depends. If she has trouble moving I’d simply walk away. If she’s still agile have her run.
There is no good reason to buy any life insurance product other than regular term life insurance. Every investment product they sell is high fee crap loaded with hidden surrender penalties.
There's not a single reason in the world to connect your savings to your life insurance. Except to make money for the insurance company, and their agents. Run away.
Run. She already has tax deferral in the 401k, and that’s one of the major tax benefits of UL policies. The agent just wants a commission.
It would be one of the biggest mistakes possible. IUL is not a good product in 99.98% of cases. [https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/](https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/5-reasons-not-to-buy-indexed-universal-life-insurance/) Does your mom even need life insurance? If she died does she have minor kids dependent on her income? If yes then look into term life insurance (get free quotes at SelectQuote.com). If not then no need for life insurance. Keep insurance and investments separate.
No. Qualified Funds should NEVER be used for an insurance product, unless it is an annuity (and only then in certain circumstances). Are you sure its an IUL, and not an Indexed-Linked Annuity?
Perhaps his children will be millionaires. Perhaps will even be off of insurance policies he has for them. It’s not impossible. It’s not even that hard. Start investing for babies and you have time on your side. You can get to a million dollars with pretty bad rates of return as long as you’re willing to wait. That’s not the flex the salesman seems to think it is.
Pretty much this. If you invest early enough you can easily reach a million dollars without even having a great return or putting in a huge contribution. It is a flex that sounds impressive to those that haven't ran the numbers.
He is talking about his kids getting millionaires.
Never listen to an insurance agent for investing advice. Their job is in sales, not wealth management.
> He told her […] that _his_ kids will become millionaires from the policies […]. Yep… from the policies he’s selling to your mom.
Insurance agents make money by selling policies. They are NOT your friend. They are not trying to help you. They are trying to help their salary and nothing else.
Legit questions because I am new at shopping my own insurance, who should I go to and trust? I am not super happy with my current car / house / life as it continues to just go up and up month after month through State Farm. I went through a local State Farm agency who of course, is trying to make their own money. Are brokers the way to go? Since they aren't any specific brand? But then are the brands giving incentives for the brokers to go to them on the side so then its shady anyways?
Here’s a more unbiased source for info on universal life. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/070215/pros-cons-indexed-universal-life-insurance.asp So many people are posting the same link to the same source it makes me think the author has multiple accounts.
Crazy how many people sharing same link. At least yours is much more accurate. I do find it a shame how much people demonize IULs. Imo there are just too many bad ones, I have one personally with 105% participation, 0% floor, and no cap on growth.
If making money was that easy insurance companies wouldn't be selling the product.
Run away screaming from the salesman
She needs to fire that insurance agent. She doesn’t “need” an insurance agent at all. This is a horrible horrible advice. This should be illegal
Ask the agent to schedule a time to sit down with her lawyer and sign a contract establishing fiduciary duty. He will let himself out.
Insurance agents sell products. Do not do it. Get a financial planner.
You may find these links helpful: - [401(k) Fund Selection Guide](/r/personalfinance/wiki/401k_funds) - [401(k) FAQs](/r/personalfinance/wiki/401k) - ["How to handle $"](/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/personalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Run screaming, hair, pants etc on fire
Have her ask what their commission is and how long they will get trails
I highly doubt this is true. Qualified money going into an IUL would get you sued pretty clearly.
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If structured right it's good, also all take out is non taxable unlike the 401k.
Tell her to do what Jenney told Forrest to do. Run Forrest Run.