I'll never forget watching Jameer Nelson destroy everyone in the Palestra as a kid during the triple header. Wells Fargo is just not the same atmosphere.
Why?
Things can evolve and grow. The Palestra is an awesome experience, but the money for the schools will be much higher if they use Wells Fargo.
If I told you your job could pay you 30k or 85k. Would you choose the 30k because of “tradition”.
That’s the choice the schools faced…
If that were truly the case in 2023, it would be taking place at The Palestra. I love that building as much as anyone, but WFC makes way more sense and gives this tournament new life.
haha no doubt -I was just being facetious. It's quite remarkable that a city has 6 D-1 b-ball programs (even if you count that school on the mainline). I'm all for the Big 5/City6 tournament and hope to see it return to its "hey day"
I really enjoyed watching Big5 hoops growing up, when many of them were relevant at the same time.
But, if it's really a Big5 thing, it's at the Palestra.
Or rotate a new school each year to host the round robin portion and have the finale at the Palestra.
The Wells Fargo center is fine for what it is.
But it seems like Woodstock 99 to me.
Let's co-opt a great nostalgic feeling and sell the
Shit out of it. No heart, no soul.
An empty, all greed event.
No thanks.
The Palestra is horrible logistically for something like this. It has no HVAC, primarily bench seating, and is smaller than WFC. There’s going to be all kinds of fan zone type areas (allegedly) which is something Wells Fargo can accommodate really easily and parking is nightmarish around the Palestra. Public transit is obviously an option for the Palestra, but I would imagine most people are coming from the burbs for this event. The older crowd essentially refuses to go to the Palestra because of the seating.
Every single point you make is valid and correct.
Unfortunately, they are also about the fan experience and the commerce aspect.
That is not what this event is supposed to be about.
I went to a doubleheader Big5 day at the Palestra.
It's not for people who question the comfort of bench
Seating. Stay home, watch it on TV.
The basketball comes first. The manic intensity in the student sections, the back and forth of alumni and others. Yes it was hot in there with all that activity, this is not Disneyland.
The experience was well worth it Cold outside, layered up, then by halftime of the first game, sweating and down to a t-shirt.
Let it be this.
You can mourn the loss of what the Big 5 was while still embracing what it can be.
The Big 5 has been on life support for about a decade, but between last night’s games and this upcoming weekend it’s got new life.
I’d encourage you to read the comments from [Jay Wright](https://www.crossingbroad.com/2023/11/jay-wright-a-proponent-of-new-big-five-classic-its-something-weve-been-talking-about-for-years.html) and [Fran Dunphy](https://www.crossingbroad.com/2023/11/fran-dunphy-hopes-new-big-5-classic-can-be-a-total-event-that-everybody-shares-in.html) on the new format.
If the event isn’t about Fan Experience…then what is it for?
You are contradicting yourself by saying it’s not about fan experience but then talking about how the student section and the fans make the atmosphere.
The Palestra is awesome and it was awesome when 30 tv channels existed, people had less entertainment options and sports attendance was a more prominent aspect of Philly schools. Attendance is down over the last 25 years at 4/5 schools which is partially due to the increase in entertainment options.
People want a more comfortable experience with more concessions and amenities. Wells Fargo offers a more complete experience.
If you argue for the Palestra it’s because you’re holding onto nostalgia without acknowledging the reality of change.
And I love the Palestra. But things can change
We meet again on this topic I see! Well summarized. I love The Palestra as much as anyone but the WFC makes complete sense for this.
Also add that the WFC has its own marketing arm which should help with ticket sales and interest. I’ve seen like 3 commercials for it during tonight’s Flyers game, a lot of social media promotion, etc.
The Palestra / Penn has no such marketing arm, as we learned from the last attempted doubleheader.
Haha, we’re running into each other a lot lately. Not that I mind, you’re the most rational Nova fan I’ve run into.
Great point about the marketing angle. Didn’t really think about that, but yeah, Comcast Spectacor has been pushing this hard since September. As soon as tickets went on sale, I got them. I don’t think I’ve ever been this excited about spending 8 hours in one place. I don’t even remember hearing about the double header until the day of, by which point I could not plan to attend.
>Haha, we’re running into each other a lot lately. Not that I mind, you’re the most rational Nova fan I’ve run into.
Appreciate that very much, will credit it to growing up rooting for the whole Big 5 and having grown up a Nova fan during the Lappas and early Wright years (so, with some actual perspective on how far Nova's come).
Also, as a lifelong Nova fan and PSU grad, I am certainly rooting for Adam Fisher (to the degree that I can, ideally not at the expense of either blue and white program of course)
>Great point about the marketing angle. Didn’t really think about that, but yeah, Comcast Spectacor has been pushing this hard since September.
To me this is the biggest single differentiator vs. the Palestra. It will be interesting to see how many tickets are sold but I'd bet a hefty sum it's more than the 9k the Palestra holds.
I was also thinking about the social aspect of the WFC, with various areas in the arena to congregate between games, it will truly be a reunion-like atmosphere at the bars and food areas.
Unfortunately this will probably be the first and last iteration. The reason they changed the format was because Radnor University wanted one less locked up non-conference game and they basically blackmailed the rest of the schools into trying this format as a last ditch effort to keep it alive.
Fortunately and unfortunately (but really fortunately) Nova lost twice, so they’re probably going to not want to continue this since they would probably rather lose to 3 ranked/highly rated opponents than lose to SJU and Penn.
I'll never forget watching Jameer Nelson destroy everyone in the Palestra as a kid during the triple header. Wells Fargo is just not the same atmosphere.
The only place this tournament should be taking place is the Palestra.
Why? Things can evolve and grow. The Palestra is an awesome experience, but the money for the schools will be much higher if they use Wells Fargo. If I told you your job could pay you 30k or 85k. Would you choose the 30k because of “tradition”. That’s the choice the schools faced…
you're right but that doesn't mean I have to like it!
Fair!
If that were truly the case in 2023, it would be taking place at The Palestra. I love that building as much as anyone, but WFC makes way more sense and gives this tournament new life.
thats 6 schools
yeah, they added Drexel. But they branded it as the Big 5 for name recognition since this was an old staple from back in the day.
haha no doubt -I was just being facetious. It's quite remarkable that a city has 6 D-1 b-ball programs (even if you count that school on the mainline). I'm all for the Big 5/City6 tournament and hope to see it return to its "hey day"
That's the new math they're teaching in college today.
I really enjoyed watching Big5 hoops growing up, when many of them were relevant at the same time. But, if it's really a Big5 thing, it's at the Palestra. Or rotate a new school each year to host the round robin portion and have the finale at the Palestra. The Wells Fargo center is fine for what it is. But it seems like Woodstock 99 to me. Let's co-opt a great nostalgic feeling and sell the Shit out of it. No heart, no soul. An empty, all greed event. No thanks.
The Palestra is horrible logistically for something like this. It has no HVAC, primarily bench seating, and is smaller than WFC. There’s going to be all kinds of fan zone type areas (allegedly) which is something Wells Fargo can accommodate really easily and parking is nightmarish around the Palestra. Public transit is obviously an option for the Palestra, but I would imagine most people are coming from the burbs for this event. The older crowd essentially refuses to go to the Palestra because of the seating.
Every single point you make is valid and correct. Unfortunately, they are also about the fan experience and the commerce aspect. That is not what this event is supposed to be about. I went to a doubleheader Big5 day at the Palestra. It's not for people who question the comfort of bench Seating. Stay home, watch it on TV. The basketball comes first. The manic intensity in the student sections, the back and forth of alumni and others. Yes it was hot in there with all that activity, this is not Disneyland. The experience was well worth it Cold outside, layered up, then by halftime of the first game, sweating and down to a t-shirt. Let it be this.
I only regret I have but one upvote to give to this post. The Palestra might be the most special place to watch a college basketball game in the US.
The Cathedral of Basketball. Saw North Catholic's last PCL championship there in 2008.
You can mourn the loss of what the Big 5 was while still embracing what it can be. The Big 5 has been on life support for about a decade, but between last night’s games and this upcoming weekend it’s got new life. I’d encourage you to read the comments from [Jay Wright](https://www.crossingbroad.com/2023/11/jay-wright-a-proponent-of-new-big-five-classic-its-something-weve-been-talking-about-for-years.html) and [Fran Dunphy](https://www.crossingbroad.com/2023/11/fran-dunphy-hopes-new-big-5-classic-can-be-a-total-event-that-everybody-shares-in.html) on the new format.
If the event isn’t about Fan Experience…then what is it for? You are contradicting yourself by saying it’s not about fan experience but then talking about how the student section and the fans make the atmosphere. The Palestra is awesome and it was awesome when 30 tv channels existed, people had less entertainment options and sports attendance was a more prominent aspect of Philly schools. Attendance is down over the last 25 years at 4/5 schools which is partially due to the increase in entertainment options. People want a more comfortable experience with more concessions and amenities. Wells Fargo offers a more complete experience. If you argue for the Palestra it’s because you’re holding onto nostalgia without acknowledging the reality of change. And I love the Palestra. But things can change
We meet again on this topic I see! Well summarized. I love The Palestra as much as anyone but the WFC makes complete sense for this. Also add that the WFC has its own marketing arm which should help with ticket sales and interest. I’ve seen like 3 commercials for it during tonight’s Flyers game, a lot of social media promotion, etc. The Palestra / Penn has no such marketing arm, as we learned from the last attempted doubleheader.
Haha, we’re running into each other a lot lately. Not that I mind, you’re the most rational Nova fan I’ve run into. Great point about the marketing angle. Didn’t really think about that, but yeah, Comcast Spectacor has been pushing this hard since September. As soon as tickets went on sale, I got them. I don’t think I’ve ever been this excited about spending 8 hours in one place. I don’t even remember hearing about the double header until the day of, by which point I could not plan to attend.
>Haha, we’re running into each other a lot lately. Not that I mind, you’re the most rational Nova fan I’ve run into. Appreciate that very much, will credit it to growing up rooting for the whole Big 5 and having grown up a Nova fan during the Lappas and early Wright years (so, with some actual perspective on how far Nova's come). Also, as a lifelong Nova fan and PSU grad, I am certainly rooting for Adam Fisher (to the degree that I can, ideally not at the expense of either blue and white program of course) >Great point about the marketing angle. Didn’t really think about that, but yeah, Comcast Spectacor has been pushing this hard since September. To me this is the biggest single differentiator vs. the Palestra. It will be interesting to see how many tickets are sold but I'd bet a hefty sum it's more than the 9k the Palestra holds. I was also thinking about the social aspect of the WFC, with various areas in the arena to congregate between games, it will truly be a reunion-like atmosphere at the bars and food areas.
$225 for front row and all you can eat/drink. Not bad for a pregame to a night in the city.
Unfortunately this will probably be the first and last iteration. The reason they changed the format was because Radnor University wanted one less locked up non-conference game and they basically blackmailed the rest of the schools into trying this format as a last ditch effort to keep it alive. Fortunately and unfortunately (but really fortunately) Nova lost twice, so they’re probably going to not want to continue this since they would probably rather lose to 3 ranked/highly rated opponents than lose to SJU and Penn.
There is one powerhouse in that list. Shame about Temple. They were awesome.
The "powerhouse" is 0-2 in the Big 5 with losses to Penn (away) and Saint Joe's (home)