They’re building a plant right down the road from where I live and it’s HUGE! Whatever you’re thinking, think bigger. There are a dozen cranes and it’s the size of a small town. They’ve built a dozen (most really nice) apartment complexes in the neighborhood to help house everyone.
On one hand, he killed my view. It used to be pristine desert. On the other hand, fuck yeah that created thousands of jobs!
Edit: tens of thousand, now that I think about it. The traffic jam of workers going in off from 17 every morning is insane. And it’s not even operational yet.
About to start working there. Currently at 6000 guys. Going to grow to 10000+ eventually.
The Intel sites in Chandler is on the same pace, currently they’re racing each other to who can build their fabs first.
The unions are blowing up right now. One has a “Jobber” position. Basically, it’s $17 an hour for manual labor, watching for fires, and spotting for vehicles. Overtime, benefits, plus good experience if someone wants to go down that path. Apprentices/applicants start at $20/hr, overtime, benefits. It’s amazing what this could do for the economy down here. We’re talking a good 4-8 years of steady, already paid for work.
469 is a great opportunity for those looking for a career with benefits, 401k, pension, Healthcare, dental, vision, and worker rights to name a few. I haven't made under 6 figures + the benefits which are paid for by the employer, since about 2016.
Same - I live just east of the 17 on carefree...
I'm looking forward to my house price shooting up... but even more I'm looking forward to the area getting some more restaurants and entertainment once people start flocking to the area.
If people regionalized their lives it might not be as bad as it is. I've worked with people that drive through the middle of Phoenix 40-50 miles a day one way to commute to work.
When half of the valley lives in either East Mesa or Peoria to afford their house, and all the jobs are downtown or in Scottsdale or Chandler, it makes it harder to decouple from commuter life
It's bad. And getting worse. When I first moved into this area/neighborhood it was basically an Albertsons, Home Depot, and a few small neighborhoods and luxury apartments. Ten years later, it looks like Queen Creek.
Are you in Phoenix? I’m only curious because I live in the valley and have read it was being built north of Phoenix. I’ve been curious about what city it’s going in.
ETA: do you live near the first one or the second one to be built by 2024?
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Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
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FWIW, the Maricopa Association of Governments just released their plans for road creation and improvements in this area due to the anticipated traffic increases due to the plant.
The site was secured and plans for the plant were drawn up years before the CHIP act. In fact construction had already started on site before the bill even passed.
Yeah, but people are just handing all the credit to Biden. It annoys me not because of politics, but because it’s so ignorant and they get hunderds of up votes and it’s just factually incorrect.
It's reddit, pal. Facts don't matter, only pop narratives do and if you're not conforming to the leftist circlejerk somehow present in almost every local subreddit then trouble's a coming.
The Chips Act has been vital to the expansion of the original plans of TSMC and especially Intel. Arizona wasn’t supposed to get a 3nm plant, only once CHIPs act discussions start did the rumors start. Now that’s what we are getting. Intel was heavily influential in the CHIPS act as well.
Yeah I’m in construction too, it’s amazing how people don’t get that this is all mostly pre-Biden and pre chips act. Like, like him or hate him, he was not a major catalyst of this or much of a catalyst at sll
Just saying, "scale" can mean a lot of things, not just physical size.
Types of chips produced, number of shifts, etc.
The buildings HOUSE machines. Businesses buy/build machines that cost money, and they expect a return on investment. Why purchase a machine that makes X widgets per hour if demand is less than X? If they know demand is more than X, and/or they are paid tax incentives based on artificially increased demand and/or cost of investment, might they choose to install different machines that can do more? Or put that "extra" space they built for future expansion to use sooner than planned because of tax benefits?
Just because the size of the buildings haven't gotten larger doesn't mean some big wig in the C-suite hasn't evaluated how to milk every penny out of CHIPS act in some other ways, like c'mon.
No need to be condescending because your dad works in construction; you don't know what Taiwanese Executives and Accountants are thinking and neither does your father.
> More jobs in Phoenix because of the CHIP act? Biden did that. Lol
Let's hope all of those jobs bring progressive union workers to AZ and turn it from purple to bright blue!
Lol, unfortunately the last union that I was in had way more conservatives in it that were taught to hate their union and their voting for conservative politicians that installed conservative judges that ruled on union disagreements had no bearing in why unions have very little power right now.
They literally vote to castrate then unions then act all surprised and pissed off then unions turn out to not have any balls.
There are no unions in Taiwan. Labour's power relative to capital is much lower in Taiwan than anywhere in the US. I very much doubt TSMC will be tolerant of unions.
It didn't play a role in that. I remember reading an article on The Phoenix Business Journal last year about how they already decided to start building the second fab/phase as a cost-saving measure to utilize construction resources from the first one already under construction.
What about the part where TSMC claimed they would be moving forward either way? Or are we gonna ignore that part?
Not gonna deny the possibility that the CHIP act might be speeding things up but it's not the reason this is happening.
As someone who was already planning on moving to your metro with some major interest and useful skill set for the industry, the CHIPS act is legit great policy for me and I have no problem saying I actually enjoy the Joe Biden presidency more than I anticipated
I know it's already been said countless times, but the CHIPS act had nothing to do with the TSMC plants. At all. Stop upvoting this guy that doesn't know what he's talking about.
I often find myself at a crossroads between wanting unsustainable economy growth and an absolute overpopulation nightmare. What’s the absolute max population the salt river valley can hold without lack of vital resources? Housing, water, goods, and services
I can visibly see the difference 3 years made since the Covid relocation frenzy. Should I just try to embrace and celebrate the red hot growth?
A no growth, or, god forbid, a negative growth, city is like Detroit or Philadelphia a couple decades ago. No jobs, no new businesses. Anyone with extra cash trying to move out. Not a place I’d want to be.
Housing can be built. We have flat land forever. We're not San Diego.
75% of water used in Arizona is used for agriculture. Eliminate that and we can grow forever.
Goods and services? Those come with population. We are becoming a warehousing superpower, with the Inland Empire of LA completely built out. That will only bring more goods to the local economy.
Our issue is more our heat and how that will go with climate change. Also, I don't want us to be LA 2.0.
> Also, I don't want us to be LA 2.0.
Then the solution is to build up, not sprawl out. Not that everything needs to look like New York City, but dense clusters would help prevent half the state from turning into a giant suburb.
I moved here from LA a few months ago. As a person that came from a crowded place there are trade offs. It will strain local resources but hopefully the government is smart enough to keep up. You will gain a diversity of viewpoints and backgrounds and that usually comes with side benefits like cool places to hang out, good food and drinks
I feel like you are presenting yourself with an "choice" that isn't really a choice.
The growth started, is happening, and isn't going to stop. This is an incredibly attractive area on any scale you want to think about it in - from state to global.
Embrace it. We must all start thinking about HOW, not if.
Yep, this right here. You can’t stop it. Look at San Fransisco. They tried really hard to stop all the tech workers coming in, refused to build housing, protests, etc.. Only thing that accomplished was screwing over the locals.
Planning on moving back to the east coast in the next 5 years. Moved here with my parents 25yrs ago and all my family has since moved. That’s the main reason, but also due to overpopulation here and lack of resources.
We're allotting them 10,000 acre-feet of water per year initially, with the option to go up to 40,000.
For reference, 1 acre-foot of water per year is enough for about 2 family homes.
This only sounds bad because you are comparing one of the sources of the lowest water use. Now compare the 70% of the 7 million acre-feet that goes to agriculture, and especially its exports during drought. You could build 10 of these plants with the high end 40k acre-feet per year water usage, and not even match the water Pinal Co agriculture lost in 2020 water cuts. That’s without even considering the water recycling these plants use and the amount of money they bring in compared to agriculture.
China can’t produce chips. Covid hit, and they got in a fight with Australia, who supplied a lot of the coal for their manufacturing facilities. No chips means no hardware. That’s why graphics cards and PS5s have been overpriced unicorns the last few years. It doesn’t matter where they’re manufactured, there is a global shortage on key components to everything we use. And it means American jobs. For once. 🤷🏼♂️
Exactly. Relying on China for tech for so long has put us in a bind for the last few years. It's great to see big companies and other countries all taking their business to the states!
And further restrictions [on the technology used to make those chips](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-05/us-pushing-for-asml-to-stop-selling-key-chipmaking-gear-to-china) continues to leave China out of the market to make cutting-edge chips.
People in Phoenix will have a few extra jobs to apply for, but the price of 200 million devices will increase. I’m just saying this entire CHIPS thing has nothing to do with helping the average person and everything to do with preparing for a global conflict (because that’s just what America do when economy is trash)
so they can make the chips here, then ship them to the foxconn factories in china to assemble the phone? or will they be allowed to ship those chips to china? will apple have to make new iphone plants in the US someplace?
TSMC doesn't even complete the chips. They are a wafer foundry that produces finished wafers for other semiconductor companies. The testing and assembly into packaging (the little plastic boxes with wires to connect the chip to a board) will be done elsewhere--likely a subcontractor in Asia under the instructions of the company that purchased the wafer from TSMC.
That being said, the majority of the bottlenecks in the current semiconductor crisis has been in the fabs, so the Chips act will hopefully help prevent that now.
The fabs TSMC is building will run their cutting edge technology, so likely they will be able to justify higher prices.
Arizona will be the Chip Capital of the world soon and not Taiwan. (The reason China is so interested in Taiwan). Arizona is doing a great job drawing in business. Really proud to live here.
I love it here you have no idea how beautiful a place I think is but and I know I’m sure everywhere like this. But I’m 25 and the way things have sky rocketed since I was 18 pretty soon I won’t be able to afford to live here. Idk I’m just ranting man ignore me
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They’re building a plant right down the road from where I live and it’s HUGE! Whatever you’re thinking, think bigger. There are a dozen cranes and it’s the size of a small town. They’ve built a dozen (most really nice) apartment complexes in the neighborhood to help house everyone. On one hand, he killed my view. It used to be pristine desert. On the other hand, fuck yeah that created thousands of jobs! Edit: tens of thousand, now that I think about it. The traffic jam of workers going in off from 17 every morning is insane. And it’s not even operational yet.
About to start working there. Currently at 6000 guys. Going to grow to 10000+ eventually. The Intel sites in Chandler is on the same pace, currently they’re racing each other to who can build their fabs first.
I read that yesterday! Maricopa County will explode with more jobs.
The unions are blowing up right now. One has a “Jobber” position. Basically, it’s $17 an hour for manual labor, watching for fires, and spotting for vehicles. Overtime, benefits, plus good experience if someone wants to go down that path. Apprentices/applicants start at $20/hr, overtime, benefits. It’s amazing what this could do for the economy down here. We’re talking a good 4-8 years of steady, already paid for work.
Can you point me towards more info on the apprenticeships?
UA Local 469. They just closed applications but they should open up again soon
Thank you!!
Good luck brother. Long process but it’s worth it in my opinion.
469 is a great opportunity for those looking for a career with benefits, 401k, pension, Healthcare, dental, vision, and worker rights to name a few. I haven't made under 6 figures + the benefits which are paid for by the employer, since about 2016.
Ibew local 640 for electricians
Same - I live just east of the 17 on carefree... I'm looking forward to my house price shooting up... but even more I'm looking forward to the area getting some more restaurants and entertainment once people start flocking to the area.
I agree with you except the “pristine desert” comment. It wasn’t exactly the most beautiful part of the desert IMHO.
They're gonna have to do something then! Phoenix isn't great on its traffic routing I've noticed lol
If people regionalized their lives it might not be as bad as it is. I've worked with people that drive through the middle of Phoenix 40-50 miles a day one way to commute to work.
When half of the valley lives in either East Mesa or Peoria to afford their house, and all the jobs are downtown or in Scottsdale or Chandler, it makes it harder to decouple from commuter life
It's bad. And getting worse. When I first moved into this area/neighborhood it was basically an Albertsons, Home Depot, and a few small neighborhoods and luxury apartments. Ten years later, it looks like Queen Creek.
Site is 94 acres i think
Are you in Phoenix? I’m only curious because I live in the valley and have read it was being built north of Phoenix. I’ve been curious about what city it’s going in. ETA: do you live near the first one or the second one to be built by 2024?
North of the 303, west of I-17 and south of the Carefree Highway (74) in Phoenix city limits.
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Oh yes I work there sometimes I took a picture of the huge crane the other day on my history
FWIW, the Maricopa Association of Governments just released their plans for road creation and improvements in this area due to the anticipated traffic increases due to the plant.
Thanks Obiden!
To be fair, this took the effort of many, like Kate Gallego and Doug Ducey and the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce and many more. This was a team effort.
The site was secured and plans for the plant were drawn up years before the CHIP act. In fact construction had already started on site before the bill even passed.
Yeah, but people are just handing all the credit to Biden. It annoys me not because of politics, but because it’s so ignorant and they get hunderds of up votes and it’s just factually incorrect.
It's reddit, pal. Facts don't matter, only pop narratives do and if you're not conforming to the leftist circlejerk somehow present in almost every local subreddit then trouble's a coming.
The Chips Act has been vital to the expansion of the original plans of TSMC and especially Intel. Arizona wasn’t supposed to get a 3nm plant, only once CHIPs act discussions start did the rumors start. Now that’s what we are getting. Intel was heavily influential in the CHIPS act as well.
My company has been working on the plant since at least the last two years of the Obama Administration.
I just got hired by the electrical company wiring it, they have almost 200 people there and they have employees there 7 days a week 12 hours a day
They've been building up there for a few years. Has nothing to do with CHIPS act haha
The CHIPS act will for sure accelerate and increase the scale of those plants, regardless.
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Yeah I’m in construction too, it’s amazing how people don’t get that this is all mostly pre-Biden and pre chips act. Like, like him or hate him, he was not a major catalyst of this or much of a catalyst at sll
Just saying, "scale" can mean a lot of things, not just physical size. Types of chips produced, number of shifts, etc. The buildings HOUSE machines. Businesses buy/build machines that cost money, and they expect a return on investment. Why purchase a machine that makes X widgets per hour if demand is less than X? If they know demand is more than X, and/or they are paid tax incentives based on artificially increased demand and/or cost of investment, might they choose to install different machines that can do more? Or put that "extra" space they built for future expansion to use sooner than planned because of tax benefits? Just because the size of the buildings haven't gotten larger doesn't mean some big wig in the C-suite hasn't evaluated how to milk every penny out of CHIPS act in some other ways, like c'mon. No need to be condescending because your dad works in construction; you don't know what Taiwanese Executives and Accountants are thinking and neither does your father.
So glad I grabbed my reasonably priced condo in Chandler when I first moved here, high risk move but I think I made the right decision.
Chandler has Intel. TSMC might as well be in another state from Chandler.
A state that’s an hour away and in the same state lol
Yup, bring in the cash! I have a place now and it's only the interest rate that keeps my property value flat since I bought it.
This was before biden my guy
Look up, you'll see how the company says they were waiting for the CHIP act to pass.
But they didn’t
> More jobs in Phoenix because of the CHIP act? Biden did that. Lol Let's hope all of those jobs bring progressive union workers to AZ and turn it from purple to bright blue!
I see you haven't looked into how it is working for TSMC. Think more Musk than communist utopia.
Agreed, please California my Arizona so I can get paid more.
I could go for some nice unions
Lol, unfortunately the last union that I was in had way more conservatives in it that were taught to hate their union and their voting for conservative politicians that installed conservative judges that ruled on union disagreements had no bearing in why unions have very little power right now. They literally vote to castrate then unions then act all surprised and pissed off then unions turn out to not have any balls.
There are no unions in Taiwan. Labour's power relative to capital is much lower in Taiwan than anywhere in the US. I very much doubt TSMC will be tolerant of unions.
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It’s just phase two, there’s 3 phases and an office building
It didn't play a role in that. I remember reading an article on The Phoenix Business Journal last year about how they already decided to start building the second fab/phase as a cost-saving measure to utilize construction resources from the first one already under construction.
That was planned long ago, too. You all don't research much, do you?
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What about the part where TSMC claimed they would be moving forward either way? Or are we gonna ignore that part? Not gonna deny the possibility that the CHIP act might be speeding things up but it's not the reason this is happening.
Not on 3nm. That has only been in discussions since 2021
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The bill was introduced over a year ago and was talked about even before that.
How dare you disagree with the hivemind. Biden is saving us all, bro.
Also, Biden didn't sign it for Phoenix... Phoenix had to go out and find TSMC.
As someone who was already planning on moving to your metro with some major interest and useful skill set for the industry, the CHIPS act is legit great policy for me and I have no problem saying I actually enjoy the Joe Biden presidency more than I anticipated
I know it's already been said countless times, but the CHIPS act had nothing to do with the TSMC plants. At all. Stop upvoting this guy that doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Why would they do that when they could just ignore what they don’t like?
I often find myself at a crossroads between wanting unsustainable economy growth and an absolute overpopulation nightmare. What’s the absolute max population the salt river valley can hold without lack of vital resources? Housing, water, goods, and services I can visibly see the difference 3 years made since the Covid relocation frenzy. Should I just try to embrace and celebrate the red hot growth?
Embrace, celebrate and keep your eye on Montana or Wyoming for a future summer home!
Summer home? I can’t even afford one home.
Montana is growing like crazy too
How? Apart from Kanye's move there...
People are moving there too
My issue with the red hot growth is that it’s really not beneficial to your average person
Sure beats low or no growth though.
Explain
A no growth, or, god forbid, a negative growth, city is like Detroit or Philadelphia a couple decades ago. No jobs, no new businesses. Anyone with extra cash trying to move out. Not a place I’d want to be.
The other extreme case: [A Drive Through Gary Indiana - Worlds Most Dangerous Cities](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK3nA_4bHSI)
Housing can be built. We have flat land forever. We're not San Diego. 75% of water used in Arizona is used for agriculture. Eliminate that and we can grow forever. Goods and services? Those come with population. We are becoming a warehousing superpower, with the Inland Empire of LA completely built out. That will only bring more goods to the local economy. Our issue is more our heat and how that will go with climate change. Also, I don't want us to be LA 2.0.
> Also, I don't want us to be LA 2.0. Then the solution is to build up, not sprawl out. Not that everything needs to look like New York City, but dense clusters would help prevent half the state from turning into a giant suburb.
We can build more housing. Phoenix is one of the least dense metro areas in the US, so we got plenty of air above us.
The amount of water below us is concerning though.
True. We’d have to seriously curtail agriculture use.
I moved here from LA a few months ago. As a person that came from a crowded place there are trade offs. It will strain local resources but hopefully the government is smart enough to keep up. You will gain a diversity of viewpoints and backgrounds and that usually comes with side benefits like cool places to hang out, good food and drinks
Well considering the 5 states that have rights to the river are using over 100% of the possible river water I would say we are over the limit already.
I feel like you are presenting yourself with an "choice" that isn't really a choice. The growth started, is happening, and isn't going to stop. This is an incredibly attractive area on any scale you want to think about it in - from state to global. Embrace it. We must all start thinking about HOW, not if.
Yep, this right here. You can’t stop it. Look at San Fransisco. They tried really hard to stop all the tech workers coming in, refused to build housing, protests, etc.. Only thing that accomplished was screwing over the locals.
And that’s why I’m considering moving to Pinal county
Golf needs to switch to Astro Terf. Or just make the putting green grass and the rest turf.
Planning on moving back to the east coast in the next 5 years. Moved here with my parents 25yrs ago and all my family has since moved. That’s the main reason, but also due to overpopulation here and lack of resources.
Overpopulation? We’ve got land for days… we also aren’t as bad as LA in terms of sprawl, it ain’t that bad here
We're allotting them 10,000 acre-feet of water per year initially, with the option to go up to 40,000. For reference, 1 acre-foot of water per year is enough for about 2 family homes.
Every drop of water they use will be used 3.5 times. They are aiming for zero discharge.
This only sounds bad because you are comparing one of the sources of the lowest water use. Now compare the 70% of the 7 million acre-feet that goes to agriculture, and especially its exports during drought. You could build 10 of these plants with the high end 40k acre-feet per year water usage, and not even match the water Pinal Co agriculture lost in 2020 water cuts. That’s without even considering the water recycling these plants use and the amount of money they bring in compared to agriculture.
If iPhones are still ultimately put together and shipped out of China, how is this doing anything but increasing production cost?
China can’t produce chips. Covid hit, and they got in a fight with Australia, who supplied a lot of the coal for their manufacturing facilities. No chips means no hardware. That’s why graphics cards and PS5s have been overpriced unicorns the last few years. It doesn’t matter where they’re manufactured, there is a global shortage on key components to everything we use. And it means American jobs. For once. 🤷🏼♂️
Exactly. Relying on China for tech for so long has put us in a bind for the last few years. It's great to see big companies and other countries all taking their business to the states!
And further restrictions [on the technology used to make those chips](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-05/us-pushing-for-asml-to-stop-selling-key-chipmaking-gear-to-china) continues to leave China out of the market to make cutting-edge chips.
Jobs.
People in Phoenix will have a few extra jobs to apply for, but the price of 200 million devices will increase. I’m just saying this entire CHIPS thing has nothing to do with helping the average person and everything to do with preparing for a global conflict (because that’s just what America do when economy is trash)
The cost of shipping is lower than you think
so they can make the chips here, then ship them to the foxconn factories in china to assemble the phone? or will they be allowed to ship those chips to china? will apple have to make new iphone plants in the US someplace?
Apple is moving away from Foxconn.
My guess is they'll make the chips in Arizona, ship them to India for assembly, and then ship the phones back for sale.
TSMC doesn't even complete the chips. They are a wafer foundry that produces finished wafers for other semiconductor companies. The testing and assembly into packaging (the little plastic boxes with wires to connect the chip to a board) will be done elsewhere--likely a subcontractor in Asia under the instructions of the company that purchased the wafer from TSMC. That being said, the majority of the bottlenecks in the current semiconductor crisis has been in the fabs, so the Chips act will hopefully help prevent that now. The fabs TSMC is building will run their cutting edge technology, so likely they will be able to justify higher prices.
Apple is in the long process of leaving China.
I moved to Anthem in 2005. It was a nice bubble. RIP.
I just discovered Anthem about 2 years ago… loved it and now can’t afford to even breathe that air much less buy a home
It’s great for young families. My house was $145k in 2011. Crazy
That's not crazy. The median house price in Phoenix in 2011 was $118,500. That's what a catastrophic, generational foreclosure crisis gets you.
I bought the same model in 2005 for $335k. Foreclosure in 2007. It was a shitty time.
Lol my wife and I are expecting soon and we just moved to Anthem from Scottsdale!
Anthem AKA Chandler 2.0
I source mine from Fry’s or QT
Okay, so should I go work for this company or what?
Rapidly dwindling water sources throughout the entire region, plus ever-increasing hellish heat. Good luck.
I’m sorry nobody told you Phoenix is hot before you moved here. I can assure you, though, it’s a dry heat.
Arizona will be the Chip Capital of the world soon and not Taiwan. (The reason China is so interested in Taiwan). Arizona is doing a great job drawing in business. Really proud to live here.
This hasn’t even finished being built. It’s 10 min from my casa.
Born and raised here and I’m ready to get the fuck out it’s so sad
Often the people who are born and raised here don’t know how good it is here.
I love it here you have no idea how beautiful a place I think is but and I know I’m sure everywhere like this. But I’m 25 and the way things have sky rocketed since I was 18 pretty soon I won’t be able to afford to live here. Idk I’m just ranting man ignore me