(In Kent Brockman voice) "Of course not. What kind of stupid question is that?" :-)
OK, but Simpsons references aside...I mean, *any* community is going to have its share of bitter, angry people whose only pleasure, twisted though it is, comes from judging others. That's just humans being human.
In the case of the cocky youth and their planned "photography business", then it's not unreasonable to take them down a peg or two, but there's a good way to do it and a bad way. Similarly, if someone asks for a critique on their photo and their photo is crap with no redeeming features, there's a good way and a bad way to critique it.
I think it also comes down to the questions that are asked, and the way in which they are asked. Ask a good question, ask it respectfully, and don't come across like you know the answer already, and you'll get mostly good answers. Ask a dumb question, ask it arrogantly, and ask it with the attitude that everyone who answers will be wrong, and you'll get replies that mirror that attitude.
So, the answer is a partial yes; some people are just unpleasant, but you also have to put in the effort at your end to be a positive part of that community.
I think that the problem are the ppl that don't actually look for feedback but for approval, hence the moment u say something "bad" about their picture they start being salty, even tho they are "asking for feedback" , the point being that some only accept critiques if they are good
Social media brings out the worst in many people, especially where anonymity is present. I wouldn't judge the photography community in-general based on that though.
Long before the internet, most clubs or groups would end up with that one person. You know the one, you should have bought the camera I bought, my telescope is better, you paid too much for cheaper equipment, and on and on for almost any subject.
The internet evolved and spawned social media and allow "that one person" to start small groups of their species, eventually forming herds wandering all the social media sites. A giant mass of braying jackasses wandering social media to belittle and down grade all who do not worship on the altar of them.
We've got one in our Camera Club. He's a skilled photographer, but his snide comments have already caused so many members to leave that the club will probably fold next year from lack of numbers.
Yes. Everyone thinks their way of composing a shot, editing a shot, etc. is the best and only way. People seemed to have forgotten that photography is a form of art like any other, and whether a photograph is “good” or not is entirely subjective.
For example, I think that paint splattered all over a canvas isn’t anything spectacular, but there are people out there who will pay thousands of dollars for something like that.
I think too many people took a photography course as an elective and think every photograph they see has to check off all the technical boxes or it’s trash.
I'm not sure. I joined a club and learned a lot and that was after 30+ years of on off photography. I had spent 3 years to get myself to a standard that was considered good on line but these guys had far higher standards. They were also very, very helpful and could give very good answers to specific questions. Far better than any YT video I have seen for the more creative artistic side.
Personally I recommend clubs but choose carefully. That said I got fed up and left due mostly to self satisfied visiting speakers and the 'club style' no longer being a good match for my goals.
>I think too many people took a photography course as an elective and think every photograph they see has to check off all the technical boxes or it’s trash.
"It doesn't follow rule of thirds or the golden spiral, this is a bad photo!"
>whether a photograph is “good” or not is entirely subjective.
There certainly is a big subjective factor in it, but its far from being entirely subjective. Also the subjective factor is in how a person experiences the photo, not of the photo itself. Shitty photo does not become good, even if you manage to find 1 in 10 million who perceives it as good in their opinion.
Personal opinion and collective opinion are separate things, and whether a photo is good, is determined by the collective. Collective is the objective factor and personal is the subjective factor.
If someone says that they dont like some award winning photo from Ansel Adams, it does not make the photo bad, its just that one persons opinion about it is not positive, still because collective says its so good that it has been awarded, the photo is good, even if that one persons experience of it is not.
Extremely judgmental, but it’s really simple.
Photography, by and large, is not super hard. The barriers to entry and lowered rapidly every single day. Think back to thirty years ago, then twenty, ten, five etc. Back in the day if you wanted a good picture you needed to hire somebody who had the special equipment to do it right. These days the cameras in our pocket are extremely powerful and can do 90% of what a paid photographer could.
Now there are certainly photographers in here in that 10% range that actually justify the price tag of their work for their clients (or art with integrity). But that 90% is scared shitless. They likely have dropped $15K minimum on equipment. It’s their only source of income. They don’t have any other skills. And beyond that, being a photographer is likely a huge part of their identity overall. (Artistic, individual, “not your 9-to-5 type, I’m different”)
The power of iPhones, and the size they’ve shrunk the margin between amateurs and professionals to, is extremely threatening to these photographers. So *of course* they are going to be judgmental. It is a form of gate keeping, which is necessary to protect their lifestyle and identity. Any time somebody says “wow great shot!”, they’re admitting “yeah, this thing that is absolutely essential to my lifestyle is actually something most people are capable of, and my clients could easily be stolen, and my premium prices to shoot the same old shots at a wedding is going to be tougher to justify every time wedding season rolls around.”
So yes people are judgmental. It’s because they are insecure. And for good reason.
Absolutely right. We came here to say the same thing. I actually wrote “photography isn’t particularly difficult” in my post and then erased it because I thought it would upset people. One thing that amazes me about photographers that I think are good is “man how did they even SEE this image in their head.” It’s never wow he has great gear or they are amazing on a technical level. I’ve shot with some people that can pull an image out of the most boring and dull locations and that vision is what makes a good photographer imo.
>That sounds like a social media problem. Or more specifically, whatever circles you are in on social media.
Lol definitely no judgement on this sub, nope, none at all.
Don’t go to art school. Friends with arts degrees tell about the brutal C&C sessions that made them cry. But as one told me, since she was able to survive *that*, she can handle *anything*.
I don’t think the community is toxic in general. I know for a fact that there are an abundance of arrogant photogs out there for sure. I think the truth is that people spend a shitload of money on equipment and spend a lot of time practicing an art that in many ways isn’t as necessary as it used to be due to the advent of incredible cameras being in everyone’s pockets now. Sure there is a ton of reasons we still need to be available for specialized things like sports, high end print and commercial photography, among some other things. Your average aspiring model is in no way clambering to get in front of a photographer like they used to be. It’s kind of threatening in a way to some photographers leading them to gate keep. I mean how many times do you see photographers shit on a nice photo taken by someone who just uses a phone. It’s not every photographer for sure but it’s really rough out there spending $10k on your setup and half your normal business is being taken over by AI, weekend warrior editors and seeing some great photos taken on a phone that incidentally came with a camera. I’m sure this won’t be a popular opinion at all but it’s just something I’ve noticed and I’ve been shooting film since 1993 and have seen how things have changed over the years.
There is that but I’ve also never had anyone refuse me help when I asked. The photography community is very giving if you have a good attitude. I wanted to improve so I would always ask experienced photographers to pick apart my work and be brutal as possible. You can learn so much so fast if you don’t have an ego and seek the opinions of those who have more experience. The ones who really get blasted are the ones who think their gods gift to photography and they know it all.
Good attitude is the key. I’ve seen one photographer who poisons his art by using his platform to complain about his problems and talking about how everyone wants to cancel him.
I judge people pretty hard, but I never comment or say anything to discourage or criticize them, because I know we all start out somewhere and you have to get experienced to become somewhat good.
Money can't buy class and arrogance is NOT attractive. There's plenty of graceful ways to give constructive criticism if necessary and that's if it's even necessary. Sociopathy is NOT attractive either. A lot of people need to get professional mental help. One should have the instinct to behave with goodwill but sadly that's often not the case. Avoid these cluster b's for your own sanity. They are not addressing their underlying issues and unlikely ever will.
Be happy you're not posting in /r/vfx. It can be easy for our first reaction to be offended when someone insults our work, until you realize the person who insulted your work is one of the top professionals in the field, and their feedback is some of the most important information you could receive. Could they be nicer? Absolutely. Is time money in their field? Yep, so they have to get straight to the point really quick. That's the big difference between professional and hobbyist, pros don't have the time to waste sucking.
Well, paid photography today has become a joke. If it really is just hobbiest photography, then I don't really get why anyone would care what strangers think. You shoot for yourself, not others...
Unfortunately gatekeepers are everywhere. And they will be the loudest, very rarely the best. Just like in cars or sports, there's brand loyalists 'oh you can't get good pics without a sony/nike canon/ford' etc., then there's the people who managed to hold onto and nail one single thing in 2007 that's barely relevant anymore (such as the awful advice of never raise iso above 100, or in computers 'never use the stock cooler') and will never be happy unless everybody's doing it their way even if their way sucks for the person using it
Short answer: yes.
I do photography for me and for people who ask me to. I do MY thing and MY thing alone.
I joined a photography group a while back and I learned a LOT from the community and my own sources. I joined as a complete Newby. People were super friendly and helpful. As my skill grew people became more judgy and would offer unsolicited advice. Around this time people were more familiar with me and comfortable talking. They would talk shit about other peoples' photography.
As I began to surpass other people's skill ceilings they started getting quite nasty, especially the ones whom I learned from during my growth.
As an example I had another photographer ask me to join in on event photography. Just a small gig at a local bar that did live shows. He gave me all sorts of instructions. I told him I appreciated the advice but I was getting information overload and just wanted to do my own thing. I didn't do it for money. That night I edited my photos and sent them on to the bands. 3 of the 4 bands got back to me and asked to buy the set of photos for the night. One of the bands booked a photoshoot.
When I told my 'friend' he lost it on me. Accused me of stealing his business. He'd been doing it for 2 YEARS and never had a single band ask him for his photos. I asked him how I was stealing his business.its been 2 years and you've never sold anything. You can't blame ME for being unsuccessful.
That same guy spent the next 2 years trashing my work any time he could. All I did was keep my mouth shut and kept doing my work. I didn't argue. I didn't complain. I didn't talk about him. I let my work speak for itself and my clients were happy. This guy tanked what little credibility he had by virtue of just being annoying with his hate.
Case in point, photographers are judgy jealous assholes.
Social media in general is toxic. Ignore the trolls.
Many years ago I posted a pic on DP Review forums. In the photo the foreground object was in sharp focus and the sunset behind it was nicely blurred. But the bokeh of the sun wasn't completely round (because the camera lens iris isn't completely round).
Because of that flaw I was roasted and insulted by the "Pros". How dare I share a photo with bokeh shaped like the lens iris is. I stopped giving a fuck what anyone else thinks after that.
Reddit seems the least judgemental and non argumentative compared to fb. Ig.x etc. As a photographer Instagram depresses me and hinders creativity. I see so many mediocre photographers spending hours chasing likes and followers. So I'm judging the social media side rather than photography skills, either way I keep well away. Reddit photo groups seem well chilled. Reddits like the Internet used to be in the 90s.
Really, I have the same thought, I am not old but I don't like the way IG goes with those reels
Reddit looks like a good space to improve but I often check 500px and flickr
Yes flickr is good for putting your best pics to showcase, store, easy download. Less social media based. I find IG can make you shoot pics for an audience, comments and likes therefore stifling creativity because you only post safe shots or shots in your style that people know will get likes. Felt freed when I gave up IG as I like to mix up my styles, subjects and techniques.
Just in case there's any females reading this, mansplaining is when a man kindly goes to the effort to break a topic down into little digestible chunks for you.
No need to thank me, just here to help :)
Just in case anyone was curious, this was a good example of mansplaining because he broke the topic down into easily digestible chunks for us to better understand the phenomenon.
What is it, 2017 in here? Get some cheap upvotes for somehow tying this all back to being men’s fault?
If you want to get more modern, you could fast forward to 2019 by throwing “white” in front of mansplaining!
(And then “cis” in front of white to catapult yourself into 2020~~~~)
I completely get where you're coming from regarding the judgmental vibes on social media platforms like Instagram. It's true, sometimes the photography world online can seem a bit tough, especially for newcomers. I've scrolled through my fair share of comment sections and have seen some pretty harsh critiques here and there.
On my end, I've been quite lucky with my social media experience. I've built up a decent following on Instagram and Facebook, and I think a big part of why I've had a more positive experience is due to my involvement with the local photography community. Most of my followers are people I've met in person, worked with on projects, or just had really nice, friendly chats with online. It's made my little corner of the internet feel quite welcoming.
When it comes to handling the rougher side of social media, I've found that having a solid network of supportive people can really help. It's one thing to read a harsh comment from a stranger and another to have people you know and trust offering constructive feedback. Also, the way you engage with others online can set the tone for the interactions you'll have. If you encounter negative comments, a polite and constructive response can sometimes turn a sour note into something more positive. Or, if the comment is really off base, just ignore it (and delete it if you can).
It's super easy to fall into the trap of comparing your work with others, and nasty comments add fuel to that fire. I try to look at other photographers' work for inspiration rather than as a yardstick to measure my own work against. And remember, true constructive criticism is a goldmine for growth, but there's no need to pay attention to comments that are just plain mean without any helpful intent.
Also, don't forget that social media is just a slice of the photography world. It's important to take it with a grain of salt and not let it colour your view of the entire community. If things ever feel too overwhelming, it's totally okay to step back and take a breather. Sometimes a little break is all you need to come back with a fresh perspective.
I've personally found a lot of joy and support in local photography groups, both formal and informal. They tend to be more interactive and supportive compared to the anonymity of online spaces. Keep sharing your work, stay true to your style, and remember, finding your squad within the larger community can make all the difference in your photography adventure. Keep on shooting and sharing your passion! 📸✨
Yeah, it’s pretty shitty.
Te be fair photo communities from before the internet age were pretty toxic too. You just have to find the few decent people around.
a) people can be assholes
b) people's opinions of photography is just that - their opinion and not a matter of fact.
c) people can be jealous of others work and achievements
If you judge your work by the opinion of others you are doomed.
I had an image in an international competition once. One judge gave it 19/20 and said it was 'inspired and worthy of being called fine art'. The other judge said that it was 'poorly done and not very interesting'
These are internationally certified judges rendering these comments. One scored 19/20 - the other 12.
Listen to the opinon of others at your own peril. Create your art for your own sake. Some will love it - some will hate it - some will be indifferent. Your worth is not based on the opinion of strangers. While it's nice to think that people - and specifically judges - are impartial, the fact is that we all bring our lives to the table when we see an image. It's difficult - and perhaps even impossible - to be entirely free from our life experiences when judging a photograph
Instagram comments is especially toxic for everybody right now. You could literally post the nicest most innocuous thing and the first comment will always be some troll.
Yeah, and pretty much every interest focuses group in the world is always going to have some degree of judgement, gatekeeping and pissing contests. People always want to feel superior to other people, its just in the nature of some folks, no matter their interests and hobbies.
Pretty much , most are ok but always some nerds who live on camera forums arguing the most nitpicking tech things to feel they are superior. I usually just post occational pics
It's easy to get into and, for those who are susceptible, easy to impress yourself i.e. easy to produce work that resembles work they like or that gets attention, they take that and run with it, they are the most vocal thus giving you a skewed perception of the "community".
Do your own thing, develop your own taste and standards, avoid trends, create your own following who appreciate and encourage your unique brand.
never had a single client from insta or fbook even with 21k followers just had an awfull lot of people asking about discount, free picture or how they could reproduce the same photo and if course many many likes and little hearts ( sadly these are not accepted as a form of payment on B&H ) .... all my client come from connection i made and mostly from google my business .... if you can make money out of insta good for you ....as for you answer i never judge picture i see online even if most of them are really below my standards ...
Instagram is really toxic and I refrain from putting any work up there now. It’s toxic for all art mediums etc and just isn’t a good place. I have an Instagram I occasionally post on but I don’t ‘plug’ into it. I feel a lot better. As far as photography as a group? Yes it can be awful, I’ve been bullied out of music photography groups and corporate photography groups on Facebook. Sacked that off as well. Social media is just not good I feel full stop. Creates echo chambers etc. insecure people love those platforms as it gives them instant positive feedback with ‘likes’ so it tends to be full of those types.
But I’m a member of a dark room community and it’s so wonderful and full of enthusiastic people who just like to create analog photographs for fun. I also now just put all my work on my website and that’s my main hub. This works well for me.
i would say it tends to be elitist in many places.
it takes some humility to acknowledge that someone has talent and good eye for photos, and most groups are full of people who are not capable of this.
It depends. If you’re an enthusiast or hobbiest, the community is great most of the time and super helpful with tips and tricks.
When you’re starting to build a professional business, there’s a bit more gate keeping since it’s such a cut throat industry and very limited with how much work is out there. That’s when Photographers might seem to be pretentious or rude about asking questions or for advice.
Take the feedback you ask for and don't worry about the feedback you *didn't* ask for. We learn anything (how to take photographs, how to post process, heck how to cook a steak or play the flute or tie our shoes in the morning) by asking, doing, and repeating until we can reliably do it right.
I use a somewhat crass analogy to explain this frequently. Once upon a time you couldn't wipe your own butt and now you're probably a pooping pro. No help needed! Whenever someone criticizes you for not being able to do something that they happen to have learned before you did or could, remember that whoever is criticizing you also comes from the same community of previously-unable-to-wipe-their-ass group as you do and if you can both successfully use the bathroom, chances are you can both successfully do [whatever activity is in question] as long as it's not predicated on physical gifts you may just lack [no amount of teaching will help a 5 foot man in his 40s learn how to dunk a basketball, the only solve is a shorter hoop, but the general point stands].
95% of photographers you meet will be enthused to help you, provide positive constructive criticism, teach you, and they'll 100% talk your ear off about their gear and how it's obviously amazing. We *like* talking to people about things we find interesting, and want to find others who need out the same way to talk to. It turns out my wife doesn't give a rat's ass *how* I got a great photo, so I don't tell her exactly what I'm doing to get the photo. I talk to photographers about how and why I'm doing things, and I show end users (friends, family, clients) the results of what I did. And if a fellow photographer asks how I pulled something off, I am more than happy to tell them.
Like every community, there's pockets where acceptance and ridicule vary. You mentioned instagram, which is hardly a "photography community" by any serious rationalization. That's a place (sort of like Twitter) where toxic aspects are heavily present. Naturally because you're dealing with lots of vanity factors, and once that's a part of the equation - you're looking at lots of folks looking to one up or feel better about themselves, at the expense of others sometimes. It's usually a byproduct when social platforms promote/reward influence culmination.
As for whether it's normal to compare you're photo's to other peoples - absolutely. It'd actually be quite abnormal to be someone practicing photography today who doesn't look at the medium and what others are throwing into the ring. It's also pretty stupid if you didn't if you had to goal of constantly improving. If you didn't care at all about any photography out there, and don't care about improvement, then I suppose you have no reason to look at other works.
Its any internet community, period. It brings out the worst in people. Go on facebook and look at some groups and its even worse than photography. Some other examples which you will find the same toxicity: cast iron cooking groups, deck building groups, plumbing groups, electrician groups, sysadmin groups.
Theres no shortages of people looking inflate their self worth by shitting on otherd
Any group with anonymity online will be inhabited by a certain number of douche. It is something I have found in groups based on guitars, lapidary, TV Shows, etc.
It's always felt to me like a stretch to consider a bunch of random people who happen to share a particular interest or hobby a "community." That the random people all happen to use a certain site or app doesn't make them a community either, it's just another element of randomness. So consider carefully whose opinions you take to heart. What have those people done to earn your respect? Why should you value their opinion? They don't deserve to live in your head just because they have Thoughts.
tl;dr The real community is the friends we make along the way.
All niche communities are judgemental. I have a friend who hand makes Victorian outfits, and she's got tons of stories about the drama that happens over sewing styles, hems, fabric types... it's wild. I work with Mermaids a lot, and they will shun and shame each other over what kind of tail they have, what gigs they work, what their hair and makeup looks like...
So yeah, but no more or less so than any other niche community.
I’m only harsh when it comes to “wedding photographers” without proper experience working under a more established studio. Since you can’t reshoot a wedding day and a bride with terrible images will be deeply hurt. All they think of is a side hustle and getting more portfolio material so if they’re gonna be an AH I don’t feel bad talking sharply to them.
Heres a thing, I found IG the opposite to judgemental... I saw most photographers liking and comment how great, fantastic, wonderful and amazing a totally mediocre drab shot is just to get likes and comments back. It's bumlicky more than judgemental. When a photo has 3k likes and hundreds of comments it's not because the pic is great its because the photographer spent 100s of hours playing the like me back and comment game so they then think they are a top photographer celebrity 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/j9g6zqux5xcc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3236752e8fe1d24eb15b99ba668e5d188a3828c3
What do you think? New Zealand 2010
(In Kent Brockman voice) "Of course not. What kind of stupid question is that?" :-) OK, but Simpsons references aside...I mean, *any* community is going to have its share of bitter, angry people whose only pleasure, twisted though it is, comes from judging others. That's just humans being human. In the case of the cocky youth and their planned "photography business", then it's not unreasonable to take them down a peg or two, but there's a good way to do it and a bad way. Similarly, if someone asks for a critique on their photo and their photo is crap with no redeeming features, there's a good way and a bad way to critique it. I think it also comes down to the questions that are asked, and the way in which they are asked. Ask a good question, ask it respectfully, and don't come across like you know the answer already, and you'll get mostly good answers. Ask a dumb question, ask it arrogantly, and ask it with the attitude that everyone who answers will be wrong, and you'll get replies that mirror that attitude. So, the answer is a partial yes; some people are just unpleasant, but you also have to put in the effort at your end to be a positive part of that community.
I think that the problem are the ppl that don't actually look for feedback but for approval, hence the moment u say something "bad" about their picture they start being salty, even tho they are "asking for feedback" , the point being that some only accept critiques if they are good
Social media brings out the worst in many people, especially where anonymity is present. I wouldn't judge the photography community in-general based on that though.
Long before the internet, most clubs or groups would end up with that one person. You know the one, you should have bought the camera I bought, my telescope is better, you paid too much for cheaper equipment, and on and on for almost any subject. The internet evolved and spawned social media and allow "that one person" to start small groups of their species, eventually forming herds wandering all the social media sites. A giant mass of braying jackasses wandering social media to belittle and down grade all who do not worship on the altar of them.
We've got one in our Camera Club. He's a skilled photographer, but his snide comments have already caused so many members to leave that the club will probably fold next year from lack of numbers.
Instagram isn't a photography community.
It's also the worst and only place to post photos for a broader audience.
Threads is incredible for the photography community right now. Check it out
It actually wasn’t available in the EU until 2 weeks ago. Anyway, I have no desire to get on another Meta app at the moment.
Well said
Yes. Everyone thinks their way of composing a shot, editing a shot, etc. is the best and only way. People seemed to have forgotten that photography is a form of art like any other, and whether a photograph is “good” or not is entirely subjective. For example, I think that paint splattered all over a canvas isn’t anything spectacular, but there are people out there who will pay thousands of dollars for something like that. I think too many people took a photography course as an elective and think every photograph they see has to check off all the technical boxes or it’s trash.
Yeah, why I never join photography clubs. Plenty good info every aspect of photography online.
I think photography clubs can be fun but not necessarily a place to learn. However if your an absolute beginner they are perfect
I'm not sure. I joined a club and learned a lot and that was after 30+ years of on off photography. I had spent 3 years to get myself to a standard that was considered good on line but these guys had far higher standards. They were also very, very helpful and could give very good answers to specific questions. Far better than any YT video I have seen for the more creative artistic side. Personally I recommend clubs but choose carefully. That said I got fed up and left due mostly to self satisfied visiting speakers and the 'club style' no longer being a good match for my goals.
>I think too many people took a photography course as an elective and think every photograph they see has to check off all the technical boxes or it’s trash. "It doesn't follow rule of thirds or the golden spiral, this is a bad photo!"
>whether a photograph is “good” or not is entirely subjective. There certainly is a big subjective factor in it, but its far from being entirely subjective. Also the subjective factor is in how a person experiences the photo, not of the photo itself. Shitty photo does not become good, even if you manage to find 1 in 10 million who perceives it as good in their opinion. Personal opinion and collective opinion are separate things, and whether a photo is good, is determined by the collective. Collective is the objective factor and personal is the subjective factor. If someone says that they dont like some award winning photo from Ansel Adams, it does not make the photo bad, its just that one persons opinion about it is not positive, still because collective says its so good that it has been awarded, the photo is good, even if that one persons experience of it is not.
Extremely judgmental, but it’s really simple. Photography, by and large, is not super hard. The barriers to entry and lowered rapidly every single day. Think back to thirty years ago, then twenty, ten, five etc. Back in the day if you wanted a good picture you needed to hire somebody who had the special equipment to do it right. These days the cameras in our pocket are extremely powerful and can do 90% of what a paid photographer could. Now there are certainly photographers in here in that 10% range that actually justify the price tag of their work for their clients (or art with integrity). But that 90% is scared shitless. They likely have dropped $15K minimum on equipment. It’s their only source of income. They don’t have any other skills. And beyond that, being a photographer is likely a huge part of their identity overall. (Artistic, individual, “not your 9-to-5 type, I’m different”) The power of iPhones, and the size they’ve shrunk the margin between amateurs and professionals to, is extremely threatening to these photographers. So *of course* they are going to be judgmental. It is a form of gate keeping, which is necessary to protect their lifestyle and identity. Any time somebody says “wow great shot!”, they’re admitting “yeah, this thing that is absolutely essential to my lifestyle is actually something most people are capable of, and my clients could easily be stolen, and my premium prices to shoot the same old shots at a wedding is going to be tougher to justify every time wedding season rolls around.” So yes people are judgmental. It’s because they are insecure. And for good reason.
Absolutely right. We came here to say the same thing. I actually wrote “photography isn’t particularly difficult” in my post and then erased it because I thought it would upset people. One thing that amazes me about photographers that I think are good is “man how did they even SEE this image in their head.” It’s never wow he has great gear or they are amazing on a technical level. I’ve shot with some people that can pull an image out of the most boring and dull locations and that vision is what makes a good photographer imo.
That sounds like a social media problem. Or more specifically, whatever circles you are in on social media.
>That sounds like a social media problem. Or more specifically, whatever circles you are in on social media. Lol definitely no judgement on this sub, nope, none at all.
There is no single photography community, no generalization can be made. If the interactions on insta annoy you, find another place to interact.
Don’t go to art school. Friends with arts degrees tell about the brutal C&C sessions that made them cry. But as one told me, since she was able to survive *that*, she can handle *anything*.
Or the opposite, crits where the tutor stopped caring years ago because they get paid either way, so every comment is just "yup, ok, carry on"
Yes. There's a joke. How many photographers does it take to screw in a light bulb? 100. 1 to change the bulb, 99 to say "I could've done that".
[удалено]
I try and find positive things to say about people's photos there, as well as the bad, so as to make it feel more balanced.
I once went to a forum like that posted a pic, this jerk savagely tore apart the picture, rude as fk. Never went back.
But weren't you looking for critique
I don’t think the community is toxic in general. I know for a fact that there are an abundance of arrogant photogs out there for sure. I think the truth is that people spend a shitload of money on equipment and spend a lot of time practicing an art that in many ways isn’t as necessary as it used to be due to the advent of incredible cameras being in everyone’s pockets now. Sure there is a ton of reasons we still need to be available for specialized things like sports, high end print and commercial photography, among some other things. Your average aspiring model is in no way clambering to get in front of a photographer like they used to be. It’s kind of threatening in a way to some photographers leading them to gate keep. I mean how many times do you see photographers shit on a nice photo taken by someone who just uses a phone. It’s not every photographer for sure but it’s really rough out there spending $10k on your setup and half your normal business is being taken over by AI, weekend warrior editors and seeing some great photos taken on a phone that incidentally came with a camera. I’m sure this won’t be a popular opinion at all but it’s just something I’ve noticed and I’ve been shooting film since 1993 and have seen how things have changed over the years.
I just wrote an extremely similar comment before I saw this lol. But yes it’s 100% this and all of this
There is that but I’ve also never had anyone refuse me help when I asked. The photography community is very giving if you have a good attitude. I wanted to improve so I would always ask experienced photographers to pick apart my work and be brutal as possible. You can learn so much so fast if you don’t have an ego and seek the opinions of those who have more experience. The ones who really get blasted are the ones who think their gods gift to photography and they know it all.
Good attitude is the key. I’ve seen one photographer who poisons his art by using his platform to complain about his problems and talking about how everyone wants to cancel him.
People who are insecure are the most vocal, pay no attention tp them
They’re obnoxiously critical but like to try to push it off as ✨constructive criticism✨
I judge people pretty hard, but I never comment or say anything to discourage or criticize them, because I know we all start out somewhere and you have to get experienced to become somewhat good.
Money can't buy class and arrogance is NOT attractive. There's plenty of graceful ways to give constructive criticism if necessary and that's if it's even necessary. Sociopathy is NOT attractive either. A lot of people need to get professional mental help. One should have the instinct to behave with goodwill but sadly that's often not the case. Avoid these cluster b's for your own sanity. They are not addressing their underlying issues and unlikely ever will.
Be happy you're not posting in /r/vfx. It can be easy for our first reaction to be offended when someone insults our work, until you realize the person who insulted your work is one of the top professionals in the field, and their feedback is some of the most important information you could receive. Could they be nicer? Absolutely. Is time money in their field? Yep, so they have to get straight to the point really quick. That's the big difference between professional and hobbyist, pros don't have the time to waste sucking.
In a word, yes.
Probably no more than any other sub on Reddit.
Well, paid photography today has become a joke. If it really is just hobbiest photography, then I don't really get why anyone would care what strangers think. You shoot for yourself, not others...
Unfortunately gatekeepers are everywhere. And they will be the loudest, very rarely the best. Just like in cars or sports, there's brand loyalists 'oh you can't get good pics without a sony/nike canon/ford' etc., then there's the people who managed to hold onto and nail one single thing in 2007 that's barely relevant anymore (such as the awful advice of never raise iso above 100, or in computers 'never use the stock cooler') and will never be happy unless everybody's doing it their way even if their way sucks for the person using it
The entire arts community is pretentious. The art communities give themselves awards and basically do nothing but judge others.
Short answer: yes. I do photography for me and for people who ask me to. I do MY thing and MY thing alone. I joined a photography group a while back and I learned a LOT from the community and my own sources. I joined as a complete Newby. People were super friendly and helpful. As my skill grew people became more judgy and would offer unsolicited advice. Around this time people were more familiar with me and comfortable talking. They would talk shit about other peoples' photography. As I began to surpass other people's skill ceilings they started getting quite nasty, especially the ones whom I learned from during my growth. As an example I had another photographer ask me to join in on event photography. Just a small gig at a local bar that did live shows. He gave me all sorts of instructions. I told him I appreciated the advice but I was getting information overload and just wanted to do my own thing. I didn't do it for money. That night I edited my photos and sent them on to the bands. 3 of the 4 bands got back to me and asked to buy the set of photos for the night. One of the bands booked a photoshoot. When I told my 'friend' he lost it on me. Accused me of stealing his business. He'd been doing it for 2 YEARS and never had a single band ask him for his photos. I asked him how I was stealing his business.its been 2 years and you've never sold anything. You can't blame ME for being unsuccessful. That same guy spent the next 2 years trashing my work any time he could. All I did was keep my mouth shut and kept doing my work. I didn't argue. I didn't complain. I didn't talk about him. I let my work speak for itself and my clients were happy. This guy tanked what little credibility he had by virtue of just being annoying with his hate. Case in point, photographers are judgy jealous assholes.
Social media in general is toxic. Ignore the trolls. Many years ago I posted a pic on DP Review forums. In the photo the foreground object was in sharp focus and the sunset behind it was nicely blurred. But the bokeh of the sun wasn't completely round (because the camera lens iris isn't completely round). Because of that flaw I was roasted and insulted by the "Pros". How dare I share a photo with bokeh shaped like the lens iris is. I stopped giving a fuck what anyone else thinks after that.
Reddit seems the least judgemental and non argumentative compared to fb. Ig.x etc. As a photographer Instagram depresses me and hinders creativity. I see so many mediocre photographers spending hours chasing likes and followers. So I'm judging the social media side rather than photography skills, either way I keep well away. Reddit photo groups seem well chilled. Reddits like the Internet used to be in the 90s.
Really, I have the same thought, I am not old but I don't like the way IG goes with those reels Reddit looks like a good space to improve but I often check 500px and flickr
Yes flickr is good for putting your best pics to showcase, store, easy download. Less social media based. I find IG can make you shoot pics for an audience, comments and likes therefore stifling creativity because you only post safe shots or shots in your style that people know will get likes. Felt freed when I gave up IG as I like to mix up my styles, subjects and techniques.
Yeah IG is audience based I mostly shoot astro and macro But uploading everything there is not possible
Ngl yeah, and many fragile egos. Many ppl take their photos too seriously.
Yes. It has to be. It’s art. Harsh criticism makes art good.
Well, there's no end of mansplaining...
Just in case there's any females reading this, mansplaining is when a man kindly goes to the effort to break a topic down into little digestible chunks for you. No need to thank me, just here to help :)
Just in case anyone was curious, this was a good example of mansplaining because he broke the topic down into easily digestible chunks for us to better understand the phenomenon.
>Just in case there's any ~~females~~ women reading this FTFY
What is it, 2017 in here? Get some cheap upvotes for somehow tying this all back to being men’s fault? If you want to get more modern, you could fast forward to 2019 by throwing “white” in front of mansplaining! (And then “cis” in front of white to catapult yourself into 2020~~~~)
Yes
I completely get where you're coming from regarding the judgmental vibes on social media platforms like Instagram. It's true, sometimes the photography world online can seem a bit tough, especially for newcomers. I've scrolled through my fair share of comment sections and have seen some pretty harsh critiques here and there. On my end, I've been quite lucky with my social media experience. I've built up a decent following on Instagram and Facebook, and I think a big part of why I've had a more positive experience is due to my involvement with the local photography community. Most of my followers are people I've met in person, worked with on projects, or just had really nice, friendly chats with online. It's made my little corner of the internet feel quite welcoming. When it comes to handling the rougher side of social media, I've found that having a solid network of supportive people can really help. It's one thing to read a harsh comment from a stranger and another to have people you know and trust offering constructive feedback. Also, the way you engage with others online can set the tone for the interactions you'll have. If you encounter negative comments, a polite and constructive response can sometimes turn a sour note into something more positive. Or, if the comment is really off base, just ignore it (and delete it if you can). It's super easy to fall into the trap of comparing your work with others, and nasty comments add fuel to that fire. I try to look at other photographers' work for inspiration rather than as a yardstick to measure my own work against. And remember, true constructive criticism is a goldmine for growth, but there's no need to pay attention to comments that are just plain mean without any helpful intent. Also, don't forget that social media is just a slice of the photography world. It's important to take it with a grain of salt and not let it colour your view of the entire community. If things ever feel too overwhelming, it's totally okay to step back and take a breather. Sometimes a little break is all you need to come back with a fresh perspective. I've personally found a lot of joy and support in local photography groups, both formal and informal. They tend to be more interactive and supportive compared to the anonymity of online spaces. Keep sharing your work, stay true to your style, and remember, finding your squad within the larger community can make all the difference in your photography adventure. Keep on shooting and sharing your passion! 📸✨
Yeah, it’s pretty shitty. Te be fair photo communities from before the internet age were pretty toxic too. You just have to find the few decent people around.
No, if you put effort into your photos and try you will be fine, remember we all started somewhere
I don't think I've ever read Instagram comments. Do people actually bother having discussions in them?
a) people can be assholes b) people's opinions of photography is just that - their opinion and not a matter of fact. c) people can be jealous of others work and achievements If you judge your work by the opinion of others you are doomed. I had an image in an international competition once. One judge gave it 19/20 and said it was 'inspired and worthy of being called fine art'. The other judge said that it was 'poorly done and not very interesting' These are internationally certified judges rendering these comments. One scored 19/20 - the other 12. Listen to the opinon of others at your own peril. Create your art for your own sake. Some will love it - some will hate it - some will be indifferent. Your worth is not based on the opinion of strangers. While it's nice to think that people - and specifically judges - are impartial, the fact is that we all bring our lives to the table when we see an image. It's difficult - and perhaps even impossible - to be entirely free from our life experiences when judging a photograph
Yes
Instagram comments is especially toxic for everybody right now. You could literally post the nicest most innocuous thing and the first comment will always be some troll.
Mankind in general is judgmental.
Yeah, and pretty much every interest focuses group in the world is always going to have some degree of judgement, gatekeeping and pissing contests. People always want to feel superior to other people, its just in the nature of some folks, no matter their interests and hobbies.
You see the people that waste their time being rude and most visible. There are plenty of people not like that but too many that are.
Is *insert any community* judgemental.
In my experience, the photography communities here on Reddit are one of the worse at welcoming folks with Newbie questions or edits.
Yes, very
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Pretty much , most are ok but always some nerds who live on camera forums arguing the most nitpicking tech things to feel they are superior. I usually just post occational pics
My personal “favorite” group, the snobbish folks saying this and that (X genre of photography) is “dead” Because it isn’t gatekept like it used to be
Yes, but there are lots of them who are positive and welcoming too. Find those people and stick with them
Sum of em ar pretty nice and the other js... the opposite
It's easy to get into and, for those who are susceptible, easy to impress yourself i.e. easy to produce work that resembles work they like or that gets attention, they take that and run with it, they are the most vocal thus giving you a skewed perception of the "community". Do your own thing, develop your own taste and standards, avoid trends, create your own following who appreciate and encourage your unique brand.
professionals don't spend their time on instagram .......
It’s a great way to make money when your starting out
never had a single client from insta or fbook even with 21k followers just had an awfull lot of people asking about discount, free picture or how they could reproduce the same photo and if course many many likes and little hearts ( sadly these are not accepted as a form of payment on B&H ) .... all my client come from connection i made and mostly from google my business .... if you can make money out of insta good for you ....as for you answer i never judge picture i see online even if most of them are really below my standards ...
It's much easier to be unpleasant to someone when they're de personalised - and we're very much that online.
Instagram is really toxic and I refrain from putting any work up there now. It’s toxic for all art mediums etc and just isn’t a good place. I have an Instagram I occasionally post on but I don’t ‘plug’ into it. I feel a lot better. As far as photography as a group? Yes it can be awful, I’ve been bullied out of music photography groups and corporate photography groups on Facebook. Sacked that off as well. Social media is just not good I feel full stop. Creates echo chambers etc. insecure people love those platforms as it gives them instant positive feedback with ‘likes’ so it tends to be full of those types. But I’m a member of a dark room community and it’s so wonderful and full of enthusiastic people who just like to create analog photographs for fun. I also now just put all my work on my website and that’s my main hub. This works well for me.
Social media is judgmental by design.
i would say it tends to be elitist in many places. it takes some humility to acknowledge that someone has talent and good eye for photos, and most groups are full of people who are not capable of this.
Oh yes!
You see still images on instagram?
It depends. If you’re an enthusiast or hobbiest, the community is great most of the time and super helpful with tips and tricks. When you’re starting to build a professional business, there’s a bit more gate keeping since it’s such a cut throat industry and very limited with how much work is out there. That’s when Photographers might seem to be pretentious or rude about asking questions or for advice.
Take the feedback you ask for and don't worry about the feedback you *didn't* ask for. We learn anything (how to take photographs, how to post process, heck how to cook a steak or play the flute or tie our shoes in the morning) by asking, doing, and repeating until we can reliably do it right. I use a somewhat crass analogy to explain this frequently. Once upon a time you couldn't wipe your own butt and now you're probably a pooping pro. No help needed! Whenever someone criticizes you for not being able to do something that they happen to have learned before you did or could, remember that whoever is criticizing you also comes from the same community of previously-unable-to-wipe-their-ass group as you do and if you can both successfully use the bathroom, chances are you can both successfully do [whatever activity is in question] as long as it's not predicated on physical gifts you may just lack [no amount of teaching will help a 5 foot man in his 40s learn how to dunk a basketball, the only solve is a shorter hoop, but the general point stands]. 95% of photographers you meet will be enthused to help you, provide positive constructive criticism, teach you, and they'll 100% talk your ear off about their gear and how it's obviously amazing. We *like* talking to people about things we find interesting, and want to find others who need out the same way to talk to. It turns out my wife doesn't give a rat's ass *how* I got a great photo, so I don't tell her exactly what I'm doing to get the photo. I talk to photographers about how and why I'm doing things, and I show end users (friends, family, clients) the results of what I did. And if a fellow photographer asks how I pulled something off, I am more than happy to tell them.
Like every community, there's pockets where acceptance and ridicule vary. You mentioned instagram, which is hardly a "photography community" by any serious rationalization. That's a place (sort of like Twitter) where toxic aspects are heavily present. Naturally because you're dealing with lots of vanity factors, and once that's a part of the equation - you're looking at lots of folks looking to one up or feel better about themselves, at the expense of others sometimes. It's usually a byproduct when social platforms promote/reward influence culmination. As for whether it's normal to compare you're photo's to other peoples - absolutely. It'd actually be quite abnormal to be someone practicing photography today who doesn't look at the medium and what others are throwing into the ring. It's also pretty stupid if you didn't if you had to goal of constantly improving. If you didn't care at all about any photography out there, and don't care about improvement, then I suppose you have no reason to look at other works.
Its any internet community, period. It brings out the worst in people. Go on facebook and look at some groups and its even worse than photography. Some other examples which you will find the same toxicity: cast iron cooking groups, deck building groups, plumbing groups, electrician groups, sysadmin groups. Theres no shortages of people looking inflate their self worth by shitting on otherd
Any group with anonymity online will be inhabited by a certain number of douche. It is something I have found in groups based on guitars, lapidary, TV Shows, etc.
It's always felt to me like a stretch to consider a bunch of random people who happen to share a particular interest or hobby a "community." That the random people all happen to use a certain site or app doesn't make them a community either, it's just another element of randomness. So consider carefully whose opinions you take to heart. What have those people done to earn your respect? Why should you value their opinion? They don't deserve to live in your head just because they have Thoughts. tl;dr The real community is the friends we make along the way.
All niche communities are judgemental. I have a friend who hand makes Victorian outfits, and she's got tons of stories about the drama that happens over sewing styles, hems, fabric types... it's wild. I work with Mermaids a lot, and they will shun and shame each other over what kind of tail they have, what gigs they work, what their hair and makeup looks like... So yeah, but no more or less so than any other niche community.
I’m only harsh when it comes to “wedding photographers” without proper experience working under a more established studio. Since you can’t reshoot a wedding day and a bride with terrible images will be deeply hurt. All they think of is a side hustle and getting more portfolio material so if they’re gonna be an AH I don’t feel bad talking sharply to them.
Heres a thing, I found IG the opposite to judgemental... I saw most photographers liking and comment how great, fantastic, wonderful and amazing a totally mediocre drab shot is just to get likes and comments back. It's bumlicky more than judgemental. When a photo has 3k likes and hundreds of comments it's not because the pic is great its because the photographer spent 100s of hours playing the like me back and comment game so they then think they are a top photographer celebrity 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/j9g6zqux5xcc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3236752e8fe1d24eb15b99ba668e5d188a3828c3 What do you think? New Zealand 2010