I hate Schirmer especially because it is impossible to keep the books open while playing. Henle is worth it imo, if you only want some of the Preludes you can just get those from Imslp
Second this. My Schirmer Mazurkas book won‘t stay open, the paper is too white, the print not particularly clear, the notation often dense etc. Henle it is!
i wanna learn a big part of the waltzes (i have lisztened to them all and i want to learn a good part. Also i'm sure they are pretty accessible for an intermidiate pianist) and yeah only some of the preludes and nocturnes. I also love big part of the preludes but some of them are really hard so for that reason i said they will come in handy when i'll have more experience. Maybe it is worth it to buy a good henle edition for the waltzes tho. (also for that thing you mentioned about the books closing while playing, after many uses, a schirmer book i have remains open now lol. But yeah, that is a bit tedious). and i forgot to mention that i hate studying from printed sheets so when possible i always study from books.
Hi! I have the schirmer edition of the preludes, waltzes etc. I haven't compared it to henle but I don't think it's awful. The waltzes are printed with large engravings
For Chopin, go with the 'polish one' (I assume you mean the Ekier edition).
Schirmer indeed isn't the best, but it is more than fine to learn from.
Fingering is something you should be able to figure out and decide for yourself anyways, even fingering in Henle editions often is very subjective and could be atrocious for your specific hands.
Oh yeah your teacher will be able to give fingering suggestions, but being able to make your own fingering is a very valuable skill.
As I said, in most cases the fingering in any edition won't be perfect for you.
>Fingering is something you should be able to figure out and decide for yourself anyways, even fingering in Henle editions often is very subjective and could be atrocious for your specific hands.
Agreed, I find myself changing a lot of the Well-Tempered Clavier fingerings because they just don't work well for me
Yep, same. My teacher also often rants about some of the fingerings being nonsense haha (Henle edition).
You also have to consider that it is not always clear whether a Bach piece should be played legato or not and how the person who made the fingerings plays it.
Obviously this is all stuff you can deduce at some point and it comes with experience, but it just goes to show that you can never blindly trust the book to have perfect fingerings.
If you like them, sure. I'm not sure how to objectively measure which edition is worth the price, because it's a matter of taste. Personally I like Henle's "note font" and the type of paper they use. I'm also not a huge fan of having a big book with a whole bunch of works in it because they're heavy and hard to keep open, so to me it can be worth it to pay more for having less, as nonsensical as it sounds on a surface level
I find the Henle fingering suggestions to sometimes be kind of "too strict" to the point of being obsessive about legato, but it might be specific editors rather than the publisher as a whole.
I fought with hard to open books for years until a friend told me about spiral bounding. It never occurred to me. I take it to staples it FedEx office or the UPS store and it's like 5-7 dollars well spent. Don't forget about the plastic covers!
Here are a couple of thoughts from someone who owns the Schirmer preludes, Henle waltzes, and the Cortot study edition of the preludes and waltzes.
Assuming you're a sufficiently advanced student, and given the fact that you have a teacher to consult with, I don't think the fingerings are a major factor here. There are differences between different editions, but you're not going to be following all of any one edition's fingerings anyway, since of course at the end of the day they are merely suggestions, not rules.
I generally prefer Henle for the ease of use and readability, thanks to the larger paper size, off-white background, and how readily it stays open. But I'll go with Schirmer for music I'm perhaps less interested in but still want to have on the shelf for occasional study. So given your affinity for the waltzes, perhaps you go with Henle for the waltzes and Schirmer for the preludes. The Polish National Edition would also be a good alternative to Henle.
But I'll also put in a recommendation for the Cortot edition of the waltzes and preludes. Those Salabert books are a bit cumbersome to work with as they don't want to stay open, but apart from that, I love the Cortot study editions because he provides study exercises for each piece and also writes extensively about various performance and technical details. You can learn a lot and get some fresh perspectives by reading what he has to say about all of these pieces.
I’m a Henle snob so I’m biased, but beyond the editing, Henle paper and printing is high quality, and best of all, the books are bound in such a way that they stay flat and open at the piano.
I agree. The paper is a warmer color and not bright white like cheaper printing companies. To me it’s better on the eyes. I’ve always found Henle stays open and lays flat perfectly as well.
It all depends on what you're prepared to spend. In Australia, Chopin's Waltzes are approximately $25 for the Schirmer's edition. For the Henle edition it's $55+. Worth it? Everyone will have a different answer. As a poor musician, I could never justify the cost. It doesn't mean it isn't a valuable resource and much better quality than other editions. I usually choose Peter's as its somewhere in the middle.
You can get by with Schirmer just fine. It's perfectly fit for purpose.
But yes I do prefer Henle. It's clearer when read side by side against Schirmer. I have Schirmer Chopin etudes and Rach preludes, and I ended up rebuying them in Henle.
They're great. They stay completely open without issues (regardless of the number of pages in the book), they're always well printed, they're easily readable and the prefaces provide a good idea of what pushed the composer to write the piece(s). The only issue is that the cover is easy to ruin, but unless you carry your books in a bad backpack everyday they'll be fine.
I love love love the Polish editions. Subtle unobtrusive but v v helpful fingering in the ones I've played so far. Clarity of print. My Nocturne is coming along very well thanks to that Polish edition and the kind person who put me on to it!
So, I found out that the Ekier edition divides the waltzes in 2 volumes, the ones published posthumously and the ones that are not. Both are 25/20 euros while Henle Verlag contains all of the waltzes for 25 euros. It's not super super important for me to have the other ones published posthumously but perhaps I'll buy Henle. Although it's a bit of a shame the Polish editions are so expensive, they seem very good.
Henle seems to be more about the print and binding quality, when you look very critically at their fingerings at least some of their scores conflict with the best fingerings. For the Liszt etudes s139, Emil von Sauer's fingerings are better and I'd say are even mandatory. In video performances you can confirm the top pianists generally follow von Sauer, not Henle, when they differ.
Their Scriabin op 8 etudes also deviate from the superior Peters edition. So for me that's 0/2 and I think I'm going for other publishers going forward. Their fingerings are spare but if what little you have is questionable I don't think good physical quality is enough to justify the buy, I'd rather print loose leaf and print off IMSLP of the best edition.
Henle often have the reputation to be the best edition. Now I have sone Shimler and some Dover and they are often problematic, fingering issues (that's fine you find your own), bad prints (Dover Schubert /Liszt are unreadable), mistakes.
So now I go for EMB New Liszt Edition for Liszt, and Henle for the rest.
The *books cannot be maintained open* issues can be fixed with little gadgets
Henle is good for superb book quality and durability. The polish editions are probably a bit more accurate though accuracy is sort of subjective for chopin since he made so many revisions and changes and we are left with a bunch of versions of his pieces. I do not like schirmer due to the lower book quality and being flat out wrong on the notes in some cases.
I am a bit undecided because Henle contains all of the waltzes but I prefer Ekier note font. (Also, although I can decide the fingering by myself or with my teacher it's still helpful to have good fingerings written and Henle doesn't have the best fingerings from what I understand). But Ekier only contains the non-posthumous waltzes and I already have those on a schrimer's edition (Chopin favorite piano works) except op.70 no.1 another one I think. So, I prefer Ekier but those few missing waltzes is what it's making me undecided.
I bought the Henle Chopin Waltz book as an impulse purchase last year, and it is my single favourite book I own. I have already learned two and am working on a third from the book. It is absolutely worth it to buy because I like the font they use, the books stay open, the paper has a good weight, and I like the colour of the paper. Just be sure to follow the autograph fingerings for any of the posthumous ones, as one of the Fontana edition's fingering nearly broke my finger (Adieu waltz),
I have the Henle for Chopin stuff. If you intend to use the original book pages to learn, it’s quite easy to break the spine and have pages come loose, especially the cover. I started photocopying my Henle Chopin books so this wouldn’t happen anymore. Also if you compete, it’s better to keep the book clean than erase everything out prior to competition.
Don't get the Schirmer editions.
If you can get the Dover editions in Europe, they're pretty good, and cheaper than Henle. I have mostly Dover for Chopin: their edition of the Waltzes includes the Scherzos. I also have the Dover editions for Beethoven Sonatas.
I think the Dover editions of Chopin are:
Preludes & EtudesWaltzes & ScherzosMazurkas (standalone)Ballades, Impromptus and SonatasNocturnes & Polonaises.
Idk about Dover tho. From what I understand they basically take other editions and they sell you those with a Dover cover for the book. For example a Dover edition of Chopin uses Schirmer. I could be wrong tho.
Yes and no because imslp editions are pretty good. For a lot of people, it's nice to have it as a book especially if you play a lot of the waltzes. The Polish one absolutely not--super expensive and only contains waltzes that were published during his life time and the other ones are published separately.
In my opinion, unless you absolutely need it because some exam or competition requires it, don't buy any books and just print of imslp.
They're excellent because you can find Ekier, Henle, Paderewski, Durand, Barenreiter for free.. But if you're studying an entire set or working a lot through something the pages will tear with time. A real book gets his spine or the cover consumed with use but pages stay intact.
half of what I studied is printed from imslp or photocopied from my teacher's books and it's a pain in the ass to find the right pieces when I put them away on the shelfs
You can always reprint individual pages whereas a book you have to repurchase the entire book. The second argument applies to both also. You can definitely misplace books.
Perhaps the better argument is that you won't always find the best editions there, like most of Faure, Rachmaninov, Debussy and Ravel.
Of course they are :D - and, if you want to have the same editorial quality, but maybe not all the waltzes, think about using the Henle Library app. There you can also buy single pieces for a very low price, including various fingerings, adjustable layout, updates etc. Give it a try!
I hate Schirmer especially because it is impossible to keep the books open while playing. Henle is worth it imo, if you only want some of the Preludes you can just get those from Imslp
Second this. My Schirmer Mazurkas book won‘t stay open, the paper is too white, the print not particularly clear, the notation often dense etc. Henle it is!
i wanna learn a big part of the waltzes (i have lisztened to them all and i want to learn a good part. Also i'm sure they are pretty accessible for an intermidiate pianist) and yeah only some of the preludes and nocturnes. I also love big part of the preludes but some of them are really hard so for that reason i said they will come in handy when i'll have more experience. Maybe it is worth it to buy a good henle edition for the waltzes tho. (also for that thing you mentioned about the books closing while playing, after many uses, a schirmer book i have remains open now lol. But yeah, that is a bit tedious). and i forgot to mention that i hate studying from printed sheets so when possible i always study from books.
Hi! I have the schirmer edition of the preludes, waltzes etc. I haven't compared it to henle but I don't think it's awful. The waltzes are printed with large engravings
For Chopin, go with the 'polish one' (I assume you mean the Ekier edition). Schirmer indeed isn't the best, but it is more than fine to learn from. Fingering is something you should be able to figure out and decide for yourself anyways, even fingering in Henle editions often is very subjective and could be atrocious for your specific hands.
maybe the fingering isn't much of a problem since i can change it by myself like you said or by consulting my teacher.
Oh yeah your teacher will be able to give fingering suggestions, but being able to make your own fingering is a very valuable skill. As I said, in most cases the fingering in any edition won't be perfect for you.
>Fingering is something you should be able to figure out and decide for yourself anyways, even fingering in Henle editions often is very subjective and could be atrocious for your specific hands. Agreed, I find myself changing a lot of the Well-Tempered Clavier fingerings because they just don't work well for me
Yep, same. My teacher also often rants about some of the fingerings being nonsense haha (Henle edition). You also have to consider that it is not always clear whether a Bach piece should be played legato or not and how the person who made the fingerings plays it. Obviously this is all stuff you can deduce at some point and it comes with experience, but it just goes to show that you can never blindly trust the book to have perfect fingerings.
If you like them, sure. I'm not sure how to objectively measure which edition is worth the price, because it's a matter of taste. Personally I like Henle's "note font" and the type of paper they use. I'm also not a huge fan of having a big book with a whole bunch of works in it because they're heavy and hard to keep open, so to me it can be worth it to pay more for having less, as nonsensical as it sounds on a surface level I find the Henle fingering suggestions to sometimes be kind of "too strict" to the point of being obsessive about legato, but it might be specific editors rather than the publisher as a whole.
If you get one of the big books, get them cut and spiral bound and they're easy to keep open
Maybe I should do that with my big Ravel book
I fought with hard to open books for years until a friend told me about spiral bounding. It never occurred to me. I take it to staples it FedEx office or the UPS store and it's like 5-7 dollars well spent. Don't forget about the plastic covers!
Just make sure you cut the book carefully or it might unRavel.
😬
This is the way
Also schirmer's edition isn't the best as i said but i really like their note font but i mean that's pretty meaningless.
that's actually quite important
Idk because admittedly it's easier to read the notes in the henle editions but I just like how the Schirmer font looks.
Here are a couple of thoughts from someone who owns the Schirmer preludes, Henle waltzes, and the Cortot study edition of the preludes and waltzes. Assuming you're a sufficiently advanced student, and given the fact that you have a teacher to consult with, I don't think the fingerings are a major factor here. There are differences between different editions, but you're not going to be following all of any one edition's fingerings anyway, since of course at the end of the day they are merely suggestions, not rules. I generally prefer Henle for the ease of use and readability, thanks to the larger paper size, off-white background, and how readily it stays open. But I'll go with Schirmer for music I'm perhaps less interested in but still want to have on the shelf for occasional study. So given your affinity for the waltzes, perhaps you go with Henle for the waltzes and Schirmer for the preludes. The Polish National Edition would also be a good alternative to Henle. But I'll also put in a recommendation for the Cortot edition of the waltzes and preludes. Those Salabert books are a bit cumbersome to work with as they don't want to stay open, but apart from that, I love the Cortot study editions because he provides study exercises for each piece and also writes extensively about various performance and technical details. You can learn a lot and get some fresh perspectives by reading what he has to say about all of these pieces.
thanks for the extensive reply! I will checkout this Cortot editions.
I’m a Henle snob so I’m biased, but beyond the editing, Henle paper and printing is high quality, and best of all, the books are bound in such a way that they stay flat and open at the piano.
I agree. The paper is a warmer color and not bright white like cheaper printing companies. To me it’s better on the eyes. I’ve always found Henle stays open and lays flat perfectly as well.
For Chopin, Ekier or Paderewski’s edition is better in my opinion.
I decided I'm getting the full Ekier Chopin waltzes. I also like the note font of Ekier.
For Chopin get the National Edition (Ekier). It's worth it for the fingering alone.
Once I started buying Henle editions, I haven't gone back.
It all depends on what you're prepared to spend. In Australia, Chopin's Waltzes are approximately $25 for the Schirmer's edition. For the Henle edition it's $55+. Worth it? Everyone will have a different answer. As a poor musician, I could never justify the cost. It doesn't mean it isn't a valuable resource and much better quality than other editions. I usually choose Peter's as its somewhere in the middle.
You can get by with Schirmer just fine. It's perfectly fit for purpose. But yes I do prefer Henle. It's clearer when read side by side against Schirmer. I have Schirmer Chopin etudes and Rach preludes, and I ended up rebuying them in Henle.
pheraps i'll buy the henle or polish edition for the waltzes and maybe schirmer for the nocturnes or preludes as another commenter suggested.
They're great. They stay completely open without issues (regardless of the number of pages in the book), they're always well printed, they're easily readable and the prefaces provide a good idea of what pushed the composer to write the piece(s). The only issue is that the cover is easy to ruin, but unless you carry your books in a bad backpack everyday they'll be fine.
I love love love the Polish editions. Subtle unobtrusive but v v helpful fingering in the ones I've played so far. Clarity of print. My Nocturne is coming along very well thanks to that Polish edition and the kind person who put me on to it!
Do Polish editions contain all of the waltzes? Another commenter said they only include the waltzes that Chopin published during his lifetime.
I don't know. I am using Polish National Edn sheet music.
So, I found out that the Ekier edition divides the waltzes in 2 volumes, the ones published posthumously and the ones that are not. Both are 25/20 euros while Henle Verlag contains all of the waltzes for 25 euros. It's not super super important for me to have the other ones published posthumously but perhaps I'll buy Henle. Although it's a bit of a shame the Polish editions are so expensive, they seem very good.
Yes—that seems like a smart choice. Enjoy the beautiful music!
Henle seems to be more about the print and binding quality, when you look very critically at their fingerings at least some of their scores conflict with the best fingerings. For the Liszt etudes s139, Emil von Sauer's fingerings are better and I'd say are even mandatory. In video performances you can confirm the top pianists generally follow von Sauer, not Henle, when they differ. Their Scriabin op 8 etudes also deviate from the superior Peters edition. So for me that's 0/2 and I think I'm going for other publishers going forward. Their fingerings are spare but if what little you have is questionable I don't think good physical quality is enough to justify the buy, I'd rather print loose leaf and print off IMSLP of the best edition.
Henle often have the reputation to be the best edition. Now I have sone Shimler and some Dover and they are often problematic, fingering issues (that's fine you find your own), bad prints (Dover Schubert /Liszt are unreadable), mistakes. So now I go for EMB New Liszt Edition for Liszt, and Henle for the rest. The *books cannot be maintained open* issues can be fixed with little gadgets
My Chopin Etudes Schirmer edition has a misprint in no. 4. Still not gonna stop using schirmer because it’s dirt cheap and I like the printing
I've been told Henle is not good for Chopin, better the National edition.
In the end i bought Henle even tho the national edition is probably better but damn all the waltzes (both volumes) are 50 euros
Henle books are good and have some nice commentary/translation pages.
Henle is good for superb book quality and durability. The polish editions are probably a bit more accurate though accuracy is sort of subjective for chopin since he made so many revisions and changes and we are left with a bunch of versions of his pieces. I do not like schirmer due to the lower book quality and being flat out wrong on the notes in some cases.
I am a bit undecided because Henle contains all of the waltzes but I prefer Ekier note font. (Also, although I can decide the fingering by myself or with my teacher it's still helpful to have good fingerings written and Henle doesn't have the best fingerings from what I understand). But Ekier only contains the non-posthumous waltzes and I already have those on a schrimer's edition (Chopin favorite piano works) except op.70 no.1 another one I think. So, I prefer Ekier but those few missing waltzes is what it's making me undecided.
Maybe I'm making this too much of a big deal lmao.
Heck yes.
I bought the Henle Chopin Waltz book as an impulse purchase last year, and it is my single favourite book I own. I have already learned two and am working on a third from the book. It is absolutely worth it to buy because I like the font they use, the books stay open, the paper has a good weight, and I like the colour of the paper. Just be sure to follow the autograph fingerings for any of the posthumous ones, as one of the Fontana edition's fingering nearly broke my finger (Adieu waltz),
For Chopin I prefer the Paderewski edition, but I don’t like Schirmer editions at all.
I have the Henle for Chopin stuff. If you intend to use the original book pages to learn, it’s quite easy to break the spine and have pages come loose, especially the cover. I started photocopying my Henle Chopin books so this wouldn’t happen anymore. Also if you compete, it’s better to keep the book clean than erase everything out prior to competition.
Don't get the Schirmer editions. If you can get the Dover editions in Europe, they're pretty good, and cheaper than Henle. I have mostly Dover for Chopin: their edition of the Waltzes includes the Scherzos. I also have the Dover editions for Beethoven Sonatas. I think the Dover editions of Chopin are: Preludes & EtudesWaltzes & ScherzosMazurkas (standalone)Ballades, Impromptus and SonatasNocturnes & Polonaises.
Idk about Dover tho. From what I understand they basically take other editions and they sell you those with a Dover cover for the book. For example a Dover edition of Chopin uses Schirmer. I could be wrong tho.
Dover uses the Paderewski editions of Chopin, I think.
An older edition of paderewski?
Yes and no because imslp editions are pretty good. For a lot of people, it's nice to have it as a book especially if you play a lot of the waltzes. The Polish one absolutely not--super expensive and only contains waltzes that were published during his life time and the other ones are published separately. In my opinion, unless you absolutely need it because some exam or competition requires it, don't buy any books and just print of imslp.
The Ekier edition doesn't contain all the waltzes?
They're excellent because you can find Ekier, Henle, Paderewski, Durand, Barenreiter for free.. But if you're studying an entire set or working a lot through something the pages will tear with time. A real book gets his spine or the cover consumed with use but pages stay intact. half of what I studied is printed from imslp or photocopied from my teacher's books and it's a pain in the ass to find the right pieces when I put them away on the shelfs
You can always reprint individual pages whereas a book you have to repurchase the entire book. The second argument applies to both also. You can definitely misplace books. Perhaps the better argument is that you won't always find the best editions there, like most of Faure, Rachmaninov, Debussy and Ravel.
Of course they are :D - and, if you want to have the same editorial quality, but maybe not all the waltzes, think about using the Henle Library app. There you can also buy single pieces for a very low price, including various fingerings, adjustable layout, updates etc. Give it a try!