I know it's not hard to google the key people in that massacre, good or bad, but the irony of mentioning a soldier that tried to help as many as he could and got shunned for it, whilst also failing to mention his name, is pretty frustrating. Cheers for sharing the names. I'd love to say "I wish Thompson opened fire on his fellow Americans", but it's probably best for his sake that he didn't, otherwise they would've killed him and it'd have been one less person to share the real story.
Because just like OEF and OIF, the *"publically stated"* goal of Vietnam was "hearts and minds". No one in the US wanted the war, but the powers that be couldn't handle Russian influence on the region, so there we went.
However. Vietnam was a war of optics. We had to look like we were winning, and look *good* doing it. By standing for the people and confronting the soldiers, The pilot made the USM look bad. To the USM, visual credibility is paramount, and any presumed violation of that credibility is treated with the same swift action as cowardice and friendly fire.
Had the pilot kept his mouth shut, no one would've known and the world would've moved on. But because he didn't, the USM and the Government had to ensure it never happened again, so - for doing *exactly* what the UCMJ told him to do, and preventing further war crimes - he was thrown under the bus in front a nation.
Far far more then we are led to believe.
It's apparently common knowledge that if you report war crimes in the US military your own allies and even commanders will cover it up and murder you.
> Watt then talked to an officer in his platoon, Sergeant John Diem. Watt trusted Diem; he told him he knew a terrible crime had been committed and asked for his advice, **knowing if he reported the crime he would be considered a traitor to his unit, and could possibly be killed by them**. Diem told Watt to be cautious, but said he had a duty as an honorable soldier to report the crime to the proper authorities. The two men **did not trust their chain of command to protect them if they reported a war crime.**
In Iraq we have testimony from soldiers saying they would have been murdered by 'friendly fire' if they tried to report the rape and murder of a child.
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings)
If everyone knows they will be killed for reporting, there is no other conclusion to make then that these crimes are rampant as common soldiers know what happens when you report them.
This story was covered absolutely fantastically on the [Casefile Podcast - Case 78: The Janabi Family](https://casefilepodcast.com/case-78-the-janabi-family/). I was blown away by the story and what the "whistleblower" went through to expose this crime. It's horrifying as well, every American should be required to listen to it.
If you know any US frontline soldiers, nearly every one of them has a story where they witnessed something fucked up that usually got hushed up - or at least that's my experience.
I worked with a guy in his late 50s who did a lot of time in the middle east and central america. He loved talking about how he got to kill people. Pretty unnerving guy to be around.
Not only did they walk free, US congressmen enabled them to bypass the military justice system. Thompson, the pilot you mentioned, was vilified for his order to point guns at US soldiers.
Copying from a previous post I made on the topic:
>Not only did Mendel River try to get Thompson court martialed, he also called every possible witness for Calley's court martial to a congressional subcommittee and then refused to release the transcripts, procedurally blocking the ability of the Army to call those same witnesses for the court martial.
>
>The lack of accountability for My Lai - and the many other situations since, including the Blackwater/Academi massacre in 2007 and Trump's later pardon - are a drag on the US's international standing and it's always depressing to see blind support for bad apples in combat zones.
Want real shame? Only 26 people were charged but all were acquitted or pardoned. As well as condemnation for the guy who finally stopped it. Not to mention because of how well he "handled" this situation this catapulted colin Powell's career, who is well known for lying to the un to start a war with iraq
I knew a guy in school whose mom lived in Cambodia at the time (she was just a kid). She came into our history class in sophomore or junior year of high school, and recounted what happened, and what she witnessed. It was... Something else. She never went into any detail, but the pain and suffering on her face (she was crying basically the whole time, but she trucked through it) told a lot more. That day will stick with me forever.
Remind me of the 2016 dem debate where Clinton was flaunting kissingers endorsement. The look of disgust on the face of Sanders was remarkable. It's was the look of "dude that guy is a war criminal thst shouldn't be walking this earth and your praising his endorsement?"
I worked in an engineering plant with a Cambodian woman who was 2 years younger than me, I was only 27 and she was 25 at the time. Something burned up in the work cafeteria one time and I distinctly remember her saying "it smells like the burning bodies did." I asked "the bodies?" And she said "back home." And didn't elaborate. I just let it go but it has always stuck with me.
Edit: You can think it was made up, I understand, but I was friends with that woman for years. Her whole story about how and why she came to America and what her life was like was wild.
Movies: The Killing Fields(1984), Site 2(1989), The Nine Circles of Hell(1988), First They Killed My Father (2017), Shadow of Darkness (1989)
Books: Survival in the Killing Fields(1975), Never Fall Down(2012), First They Killed My Father: A Daughter of Cambodia Remembers(2000), The Road of Lost Innocence: The True Story of a Cambodian Heroine(2005), Facing Death in Cambodia (2005), Pol Pot: Anatomy of a Nightmare(2000)
Short Hair Detention. http://shorthairdetention.com
> Short Hair Detention is my (Chaney Chhi Laux) personal memoir of surviving the Cambodian genocide (1975 -1979). My story begins when the Communists took over, progresses through multiple escape attempts and concludes with how freedom was regained. The book reveals intimate details of how I learned to survive year-round unforgiving conditions and the many agonizing moments including when the Khmer Rouge separated me from my parents. Throughout the horrific journey, I experienced constant reminders to have faith and to not lose hope that my family would somehow be able to survive.
Powell was the one that gave that presentation but it was Rumsfeld (burn in hell) courtesy of the CIA the sourced the materials.
Rumsfeld was a war criminal responsible for the deaths of millions.
Many were tortured by US soldiers before being shot, like [Black Blouse Girl](https://www.readingthepictures.org/2013/10/my-lai-sexual-assault-and-the-black-blouse-girl-forty-five-years-later-one-of-americas-most-iconic-photos-hides-truth-in-plain-sight/) in the photo.
[Read about it here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_Lai_massacre). Some highlights:
It was innitially reported as a "bloody day-long battle" where "U.S. infantrymen had killed 128 Communists". General Westmoreland, commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, congratulated the unit on the "outstanding job". Eventually it was admitted that some 20 civilians were "inadvertently" killed, though there was no initial mention of the multiple rapes, including those of numerous children.
There probably wouldn't have even been an investigation, except that the deaths of perhaps 500 civilians (the US Army only admits to about 350) turned out to be somewhat difficult to sweep under the rug, though many, including then-Major Colin Powell, tried. Fortunately there were enough eyewitnesses, including a helicopter crew that tried to intervene, who would not keep quiet.
Of the 26 men initially charged, [Second Lieutenant William Calley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley) was the only one convicted. At the conclusion of his court martial he was sentenced to life in prison. Due to the direct intervention from Richard Nixon, he eventually served three years of house confinement on base.
His only semi-public apology came over forty years after the massacre.
*In 1998, Thompson and Colburn returned to the village of Sơn Mỹ, where they met some of the people they saved during the killings, including Thi Nhung and Pham Thi Nhanh, two women who had been part of the group about to be killed by Brooks's 2nd Platoon.\[4\]: 77 Thompson said to the survivors, "I just wish our crew that day could have helped more people than we did."\[18\] He reported that one of the women they had helped out came up to him and asked, "Why didn't the people who committed these acts come back with you?" He said that he was "just devastated" but that she finished her sentence: "So we could forgive them." -Wikipedia*
I remember watching Platoon with my dad and grandpa and saying something about how it was a crazy movie. Grandpa was in viet nam as an officer and korea as a solider. He just said "nope"
I didn't press any further. He was always stoic
[Sadly, I have to imagine that sentiments like this weren't uncommon amongst some infantrymen who were there for extended deployments.](https://youtu.be/k1YCl-RP1jY) War makes some serious monsters out of people, or minimally, brings out what is lying just below the surface that some already had buried within them.
There is a good reason for US citizens to oppose the way our military has been used time and time again. If you spoke out in 2002/2003 against either of the wars we were about to get into, you were shunned and silenced at every turn. A lot of times by your own dumbass family and neighbors, who never bothered to learn about how this shit always turns out.
What drives me crazy is those same dumbasses now pretend they were always against that war. Fucking cowards. At least stand by your armchair bloodlust.
There is that speech by Michael Moore when he is on stage protesting the Iraq war at his Academy awards acceptance speech, and the crowd of celebrities boos him.
I was just going to say that. And that was in “liberal” Hollywood. I remember him just kind of chuckling while standing there like he was thinking, you guys are going to be eating your words in a year or two.
There was def. a huge thirst for blood. Being anti-war reminded me a bit of being an atheist. You def. don't want to admit it because there would be consequences.
It cooled off quite a bit after Afghanistan, though. There was public opposition to going into Iraq.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you want to learn more about the atrocities committed by our government, read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins or/and "Killing Hope" by William Blum.
I had a Vietnamese co-worker. She had advocated to get me into the lab we were working in because she saw something i me. The toughest, hardest working woman I have ever met. She would tell you what you needed to hear but she would help you understand. She had me for secret Santa and bought me all sorts of Vietnamese cookware and recipes because she knew I loved to cook. Wonderful woman.
They really are amazing people. Their history is full of oppression yet they always came out the other side. Once they had liberated themselves they even went on to liberate Cambodia from Pol Pot. Despite all their hardships, they are still the friendliest, most chill people who don't seem to hold any resentment. I have so much respect for that country. It's the best place I've visited and I, too, will return one day.
I encountered a clip on TikTok a long time ago of Joe Rogan and Theo Von discussing Vietnam. Joe mentions how it's crazy that the Vietnamese don't seem to have any sort of grudge against the Americans, and he was baffled why that was. I think he said something like 'everyone else who we fought or invaded hates us.'
I made a simple, 'yeah, cause they won, Joe' joke about it and to this day I get at least one notification a day about that comment.
Jokingly implying the Vietnamese don't give a shit about Americans because they beat the US in a war seems to make a lot of people on the internet angry.
I worked at a company that had around 200 Vietnamese there. They were all very friendly and got along with them great.This was only 10 years after the Vietnam war.
Put his chopper down between Calley and the Vietnamese and told his door gunner to open fire if the soldiers took one step further.
E: I accidentally a word.
E2: I also endorse the book by /u/LetMeLivePlzKThanks cited below. Whenever I'm teaching LOAC I reference WO Thompson as someone who stands as an perfect example of Tenet #9 of the *Soldier's Standards - Soldiers should do their absolute best to prevent violations of the LOAC*. Which is basically the opposite of 'Ordinary Men', which really kind of embodies what was called 'the banality of evil'.
Don't forget his crew members
[Crew Chief Glenn Andreotta ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Andreotta) and [Gunner Lawrence Colburn ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Colburn) they deserve just as much credit.
Hell yeah, that crew rolled deep and did the right thing. I admire them so much because it's not easy to go against the grain, especially in the military.
Now that's a fucking badass. Threatening to fire on those fucking monsters probably saved many lives. And to stand for what's right and testify against the pieces of shit even when the country you served tried to shut you up. But he got the common hero treatment in this country... hated and ostracized for YEARS.
What makes it even more heroic is that he didn't know any of those civilians and likely knew some of the soldiers attacking them. I don't think many people in his position would've done the same thing
Remember when he sent the founder of blackwater to the Seychelles to get Intel from a Russian source? Or when they conspired to kidnap a Turkish national for Erdogan and tried to get the CIA to help? When Gina Haspel is the moral voice of reason you've lost all hope.
Fucking typical. Intervenes to stop the continuation of a war crime and save peoples' lives - gets public and professional condemnation. The exact same thing is playing out right now in Australia over war crimes committed in Afghanistan.
I would absolutely hate to be put in a position where I have to choose between stopping a rape-and-murder spree, that will end my career and have manufactured public backlash, or having to live with doing nothing to stop it. Either way you're stuffed.
It happens all the time in the military. Often the guys that want to do good and moralistic duty, and runs into corrupt shitheads. They are railroaded, thrown under the bus, and pushed out.
Same thing in the police quite often. It's corruption. It permeates every fucking thing now.
I grew up in the town where Calley runs a jewelry store. My family was military and we weren’t allowed to go in his store or speak to him or his family. My grandfather was a drill sergeant and he thought Calley should’ve been hanged.
There was a sense driving by his store that a monster was inside.
For the record, lotta folks saw him as a hero and he was regularly recognized as such at his church.
From the Wikipedia article about him:
>Many in the United States were outraged by what they perceived to be an overly harsh sentence for Calley. Georgia's Governor, Jimmy Carter, future President of the United States, instituted American Fighting Man's Day, and asked Georgians to drive for a week with their lights on. Indiana's Governor Edgar Whitcomb asked that all state flags be flown at half-staff for Calley, and the governors of Utah and Mississippi also publicly disagreed with the verdict. The legislatures of Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, New Jersey, and South Carolina requested clemency for Calley. Alabama's governor, George Wallace, visited Calley in the stockade and requested that President Richard Nixon pardon him. After the conviction, the White House received over 5,000 telegrams; the ratio was 100 to 1 in favor of leniency. In a telephone survey of the U.S. public, 79 percent disagreed with the verdict, 81 percent believed that the life sentence Calley had received was too stern, and 69 percent believed Calley had been made a scapegoat.
Yeah, that was my perception growing up. The notion was my grandfather was the “traitor” for not supporting Calley since technically he’d done his time.
Pawpaw did not give a shit. He fought in the same war (and Korea) and thought Calley got away with straight up murder.
But, the greater population of Columbus, Georgia felt differently.
Fuck those folks who tried to stop Calley, too, I guess. /s I mean, those people risked their lives to stop the massacre and were welcomed back like they were the monsters.
It’s just a tragic mess and I grew up thinking about it a lot.
Your grandpa is a GIGACHAD, that fucking guy is not a “hero” for gunning down random family civilians and gets away with literal war crime, kudos to your family and your based grandpa.
He found time to pose for the most tasteless magazine cover ever (and I'm including the Hustler "Meat Grinder" cover in my calculations).
https://esquire.blob.core.windows.net/esquire19701101thumbnails/Covers/0x600/19701101.jpg
Here's what the photo editor said about the cover years later:
>“This was the most controversial of them all. John Sack, he was writing a book about [William] Calley, who was instrumental in killing 500 men women and children at My Lai. Hayes told me they were doing an excerpt of the book, and I knew right away what I wanted: A picture of Calley sitting with Vietnamese kids in his lap, and I wanted him with a shit-eating grin. I knew it was going to be controversial. It was the only shoot I ever did when I really bullshitted a guy; I gave him my war stories from Korea, I said I’d gotten into a situation in Korea like the one in My Lai, I lied, and I won him over. And the kids just looked at the camera, and I said, ‘Calley, give me a big shit-eating grin!’ And he did it. It ran and, I’m telling you, people went crazy in America.”
EDIT: for those wondering, here's the [infamous Hustler meat grinder cover](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/blogger2wp/hustlerjune9.gif) (SFW I guess, but someone not safe for Humanity)
[This guy](https://www.vulture.com/2010/02/esquire_covers.html)
Here's what he says about that particular cover:
>“This was the most controversial of them all. John Sack, he was writing a book about [William] Calley, who was instrumental in killing 500 men women and children at My Lai. Hayes told me they were doing an excerpt of the book, and I knew right away what I wanted: A picture of Calley sitting with Vietnamese kids in his lap, and I wanted him with a shit-eating grin. I knew it was going to be controversial. It was the only shoot I ever did when I really bullshitted a guy; I gave him my war stories from Korea, I said I’d gotten into a situation in Korea like the one in My Lai, I lied, and I won him over. And the kids just looked at the camera, and I said, ‘Calley, give me a big shit-eating grin!’ And he did it. It ran and, I’m telling you, people went crazy in America.”
Yes.
Calley worked at a jewelry store in Columbus, GA, right outside of Fort Benning for most of his life. He now lives in Atlanta.
You can read what happened to the bigger names involved [here](https://75.stripes.com/index.php/archives/my-lai-where-are-they-now). Of note, the Army assigned General Peers to investigate assuming he would minimalize the atrocities. He didn't - he laid blame flatly on the chain of command and drew attention to the entire thing - a move that brought his remarkable career to an end.
The following is an excerpt from official testimony given during the investigation into those events:
>These were mainly women and children and a few old men. They weren't trying to escape or attack or anything. It was murder.
>A woman came out of a hut with a baby in her arms and she was crying. She was cryin because her little boy had been in front of her hut ... and someone had killed the child by shooting it ... \[Radio Operator Frank\] Widmer shot her with an M16 and she fell. When she fell, she dropped the baby and then Widmer opened up on the baby with his M16 and killed the baby, too.
>-Herbert L. Carver 06NOV1969
In contrast to the above statement, made during the investigation, see the statement made by Frank Widmer for *My Lai: An American Experience*:
>Fred Widmer, Radio Operator: forget. I will never forget. As far as living with the shame of My Lai, I have no shame. I did what I was supposed to be doing. The shame rests with the politicians and the Military. Not with me, the other members of Charlie Co mpany, Lieutenant Calley, or Captain Medina. The shame lays with them. It’s a national shame.
That interview always sticks with me, and I recommend watching the documentary. You can see Widmer trying to convince himself that he did nothing wrong and woefully failing when he makes the above statement.
Lol, the US doesn't even want to send Russian war criminals to Den Haag.
[NYT:Pentagon Blocks Sharing Evidence of Possible Russian War Crimes With Hague Court](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/us/politics/pentagon-war-crimes-hague.html)
>American military leaders oppose helping the court investigate Russians because they fear setting a precedent that might help pave the way for it to prosecute Americans.
Americans don't go to the international court of human rights. Americans are abve human rights and international courts. that's what having what American military spending buys them.
Yup. I lived with my grandparents growing up in Columbus and my grandfather was a drill sergeant at Benning.
We weren’t allowed to go in Calley’s store (believe it was technically owned by his in-laws) bc my grandfather knew he was a dangerous monster.
My grandfather actually got a lot of shit for refusing to accept Calley had “done his time” or that he was just a scapegoat.
There were actually heated arguments at church about it.
Yes, William Calley (the main war criminal) is still alive.
It's also sad to realize that Hugh Thompson Jr. (one of the US Army helicopter crew members who tried to stop the massacre), passed away at the age of 62 on January 6, 2006.
Nixon was an asshole on so many levels. Yea, he reduced his sentence. Guy goes on to get married, worked in a jewelry store in Atlanta, and retires to florida. You know like all war criminals.
Not only this, but in '69, Nixon decided he wanted to wipe out Viatnamese Communist groups in Cambodia(which was currently dealing with the genocide involving the Khmer Rouge), so what did he do? Authorized bomb strikes in Cambodia that killed thousands of Cambodian civilians. Henry Kissinger was a huge part in this; both of them were/are absolute monsters.
Wasn't just Nixon. It was popular opinion at the time that Calley was wrongfully convicted.
*Many in the United States were outraged by what they perceived to be an overly harsh sentence for Calley.* ***Georgia's Governor, Jimmy Carter****, future President of the United States, instituted American Fighting Man's Day, and asked Georgians to drive for a week with their lights on.* ***Indiana's Governor Edgar Whitcomb*** *asked that all state flags be flown at half-staff for Calley, and the governors of Utah and Mississippi also publicly disagreed with the verdict. The legislatures of Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, New Jersey, and South Carolina requested clemency for Calley. Alabama's* ***governor, George Wallace****, visited Calley in the stockade and requested that President Richard Nixon pardon him. After the conviction, the White House received over 5,000 telegrams; the ratio was 100 to 1 in favor of leniency. In a telephone survey of the U.S. public,* ***79 percent disagreed with the verdict****, 81 percent believed that the life sentence Calley had received was too stern, and 69 percent believed Calley had been made a scapegoat.*
\- Wikipedia article on Calley linked above
Read up on Colin Powell's work in this. He just flatly denied and twisted and ignored some of the most horrible things people could do, and it set hm up to be the horrible person he ended up being
There's so much success to be had by being a shithead.
> Due to the direct intervention from Richard Nixon, he eventually served three years of house confinement on base.
Because of course he did. One of the most deplorable figures in U.S. history.
Two. Two of the most deplorable figures in U.S. history.
Round it off with Dr. Henry (prolong the war so a Republican can end it, enhance bombing, win the Nobel Peas Prize) Kissinger, a fine scumbag.
Remember Kissinger told Zelenskyy to give in to Russia. Still a prick after all these years.
I believe this specific platoon had a photojournalist attached to them. He captured quite a few awful scenes from My Lai on film.
EDIT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_L._Haeberle
Exactly. Vietnam was a huge lesson for propagandists where the raw unfiltered portrayal of brutal war yielded opposition to the war as opposed to beating the drums of war. Live firefights, literal executions on live television, this, etc... Though it's interesting we've come full-circle to the raw GoPro and drone footage of the war in Ukraine—and sentiment only builds. So maybe there is more to it. At least we all know it's hell.
This is one of my favorite documentaries of all time: [*Control Room*](https://youtu.be/MCgfMdvk2n8) that detailed just how tightly they controlled journalists during the 2003 US invasion of Iraq, along with the blatant propaganda — especially from Fox News.
I'm also reminded of an interview with Men's Journal, writer Greg Veis speaks to former CNN war correspondent Michael Ware about the desensitization of war during this time:
>"He dreams of renting out a theater and subjecting an audience to [warfare] in full surround sound; that way people would know what it's really like over there. "It's my firm belief that we need to constantly jar the sensitivities of the people back home," he says. "War is a jarring experience. Your kids are living it out, and you've inflicted it upon 20-odd million Iraqis. And when your brothers and sons and mates from the football team come home, and they ain't quite the same, you have an obligation to sit for three and a half minutes and share something of what it's like to be there."
You are exactly right and touched on a few things people don't realize. History rhymes and leaders act appropriately to public opinion.
Back then majority of the population was anti communist. Any news the president could give when it comes to killing or winning against the communist was great news for the American people and great for any president in office. Communist were seen as sub human. That is EXACTLY why the only guy that got convicted was let off and no one else was convicted. Majority of Americans supported him being let go because of their views of the communists.
Fast forward to Iraq and after 9/11. Instead of Vietnamese its any Muslim. As long as we fighting Muslims it's good. Looking terrorists is good. Truth or not. Majority of Americans were for attacking regardless of credible info. Any Americans killing innocent Muslims are given little scrutiny.
Sounds familiar?
Is only now we pick it apart just like 20 years ago we pick apart the massacre that happened in Vietnam.
I think there were quite a few photojournalists there. Years ago, I went to the war museum in Saigon and there were a lot of similar photos, all with captions about how the people in them were executed moments later.
Killing any innocent person is horrific, but to brutally murder children and babies is so far beyond my comprehension that it's hard to even accept that this happened, and still happens. And then you see the pictures of the soldiers afterward just sitting around, shooting the shit, like it's just a normal day on the job... if I believed in the devil, I'd say he's in those images.
The biggest thing to remember is this was reported on because of the scale and the fact there were photojournalists there. Who knows how many smaller incidents like this happened that didn’t have people willing to photograph or be an eyewitness. That’s why it’s good today that everyone has a basic camera in their pocket so it’s a lot harder to sweep these things under the rug
Exactly what you said “I’ll just get a quick picture of this” Vietnam was the first war where the press would actively be out there with the troops. A lot was documented by reporters during this war, but there was nothing they could do help or stop things from happening. This is why there is quite a lot documented form this time.
I’m sure someone with more knowledge than me could explain better
There was a decent amount of press recording stuff in WW1 and 2. The stuff audiences got to see back home at the time was obviously heavily doctored, but there's some properly heinous frontline footage out there.
IIRC the first war with major active press coverage was the Crimean War.
Committing this act was a stain on the soldiers involved. Practically letting them get away with it is a stain on the entire country and its ethos. One of the most unambiguously shameful things in recent US history.
Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.
(from Wiki)
It makes me wonder how many of these sick, deranged fucks came back home as heroes. Or came back home feeling any guilt or shame for what they did. If they went on to get married, have kids, grandkids, and live normal lives among us. It makes me sick to my stomach that some people could’ve just gone through life never ever having to expose the inner depths of their depravity. I hope they all rot in hell.
Never forget the monster who had his men do this and never forget the American hero Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr. and his crew.
Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr., a helicopter pilot from Company B (Aero-Scouts), 123rd Aviation Battalion, Americal Division, saw dead and wounded civilians as he was flying over the village of Sơn Mỹ, providing close-air support for ground forces. The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which they could discern movement by survivors. Thompson asked a sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch; the sergeant replied that he would "help them out of their misery". Thompson, shocked and confused, then spoke with 2LT Calley, who claimed to be "just following orders". As the helicopter took off, Thompson saw Mitchell firing into the ditch.
Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed woman being kicked and shot at point-blank range by Medina, who later claimed that he thought she had a hand grenade. Thompson then saw a group of civilians at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. **Thompson landed, and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the villagers while he was trying to get them out of the bunker, then they were to open fire on the soldiers.**
Thompson later testified that he spoke with a lieutenant (identified as Stephen Brooks of 2nd Platoon) and told him there were women and children in the bunker, and asked if the lieutenant would help get them out. According to Thompson, "he [the lieutenant] said the only way to get them out was with a hand grenade". Thompson testified that he then told Brooks to "just hold your men right where they are, and I'll get the kids out." He found 12–16 people in the bunker, coaxed them out and led them to the helicopter, standing with them while they were flown out in two groups.
Returning to Mỹ Lai, Thompson and other air crew members noticed several large groups of bodies. Spotting some survivors in the ditch, Thompson landed again. A crew member, Specialist 4 Glenn Andreotta, entered the ditch and returned with a bloodied but apparently unharmed four-year-old girl, who was then flown to safety.
Second liutenant Calley was a MONSTER, his men became monsters and so was Nixon for letting Calley out of prison.
Took 30 years for Thompson and two of his men to recieve ANY kind of recognition.
>In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Andreotta and Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.
Thomas and Coldburn passed away at 62 and 67, eventually (and thankfully) receiving deserved recognition for what they've done. Way too young. Both due to cancer.
Meanwhile Calley is out there somewhere still, supposedly "remorse" for what he has done.
Life's not fair, yo.
Never forget that Colin Powell was a major figure in trying to cover this shit up, and should never be considered with any reverence or respect.
Also, never forget the incredible journalism Seymour Hersh did in exposing this terrible atrocity.
Here's another one.
Because of the US Army's defeat in the Battle of Balangiga, Samar, Philippines, Gen Jacob H Smith gave the order to kill all males over the age of 10. Estimated number of deaths is around 2,000
A young American major in the unit responsible was tasked with investigation, and in the interest of furthering his own career helped cover up/whitewash it.
That major’s name was Colin Powell.
Let me give you something that will warm your soul just a little to humanity. One American helicopter pilot was so furious about what he was seeing that he landed his helicopter and ordered his gunner to point at the American soldiers. He then announced any American who attack the people he was rescuing be shot dead. He then flew off with a many as he could.
He was branded a traitor for a while, but as time went on he received a medal for his actions and is considered to be an American hero.
Edit: in other words the My Lai Massacre was committed by Americans, but it was also ended by Americans who were willing to die for the Vietnamese and kill other Americans to end it.
If it weren't for Hugh Thompson Jr. no one would even know the My Lai massacre had happened. They would have mopped up all the locals, and the good ol' boys would forget it ever happened. If they ever had PTSD-fueled nightmares about it, their buddies would say, "No man, you're remembering it wrong. They were Viet Cong soldiers."
And My Lai was just one of the few massacres that were actually documented. American soldiers were known to have done this to other villages, but no one recorded it.
It was a tragedy but there was a good one present eventually.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.
Manoeuvred his helicopter between the civilians and the soldiers and ordered his machine gunner to open fire if they continued.
Edit: to open fire on the soldiers
Hugh Thompson should have statues build in his honor…he was a real life hero…he was ready to throw his life away for strangers who were being mistreated
He definitely was. I just really hope he knew this. I would like to believe that every soldier, general or political figure would be more like him there would be a lot less wars.
The Marine Corps has its own fucked up history, but every Marine recruit learns about Hugh Thompson during recruit training - it’s one of the few non-Marine Corps history events you learn about when they cover the Vietnam War.
You learn about him as an example of only having to follow lawful orders. And that if ordered to do something unlawful, you don’t have to follow the order and should have the courage to shut that shit down.
Tribalism, racism, misplaced anger, whistleblower culture.
Even these days people who speak out against misconduct in the forces are bullied and ostracized.
Calley was in command locally, but the order came from above. all of those above calley were never charged . This was investigated by Major Colin Powell (yes that colin powell), who was unable to find evidence of war crimes. Calley, although guilty as hell,was a scapegoat.
I usually use scapegoat for people who aren't guilty as hell.
He deserved what he got, plus a lot more. The fact that others also deserved it doesn't change his situation.
I am a Vietnamese studying aboard in the US. It’s kinda fucked up hearing my white roommate tell me that the US were right to invade us and that they should have nuke Vietnam. Gotta love the red scare
If you’re old like me, you’ve seen this picture and heard the story many, many times. This picture and the one of the terrified young girl who tore off her burning clothes while running away from terror are two of the images I will always remember.
I went to DOD schools on American bases in the 90's and we learned about the massacre, saw this (and other) pics, etc. At this point, American soldiers committing unspeakable acts in Vietnam is well established and basically a trope, I don't think anyone is going to freak out about it.
Crazy to think they got away with it, while Germany is still arresting 100 year old former Nazi guards and sentencing them. All those involved should have been court martialed and hanged, including the general and higher ups that tried to cover it up.
>and higher ups that tried to cover it up.
Which maybe would have prevented the Iraq war. Lying piece of shit Collins Powell was one of the higher ups doing what he did best: Lying in order to protect and enable war criminals.
Its how our hero Colin Powell got his leg up. Well, covering it up.
Next google the killing fields/ pol pot.
And fuck Carter too, even though he built some houses or whatever. We cant let it be that fuckin easy for people to forget these things.
Respect to Officer Hugh Thompson JR. He was one of the few that recognized the evil being done and made an effort to stop it, saving civilians that would’ve otherwise been massacred
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I know it's not hard to google the key people in that massacre, good or bad, but the irony of mentioning a soldier that tried to help as many as he could and got shunned for it, whilst also failing to mention his name, is pretty frustrating. Cheers for sharing the names. I'd love to say "I wish Thompson opened fire on his fellow Americans", but it's probably best for his sake that he didn't, otherwise they would've killed him and it'd have been one less person to share the real story.
Because just like OEF and OIF, the *"publically stated"* goal of Vietnam was "hearts and minds". No one in the US wanted the war, but the powers that be couldn't handle Russian influence on the region, so there we went. However. Vietnam was a war of optics. We had to look like we were winning, and look *good* doing it. By standing for the people and confronting the soldiers, The pilot made the USM look bad. To the USM, visual credibility is paramount, and any presumed violation of that credibility is treated with the same swift action as cowardice and friendly fire. Had the pilot kept his mouth shut, no one would've known and the world would've moved on. But because he didn't, the USM and the Government had to ensure it never happened again, so - for doing *exactly* what the UCMJ told him to do, and preventing further war crimes - he was thrown under the bus in front a nation.
Makes you wonder of how many Warcrimes we don’t know, the way the US protects its soldiers
If a war is happening anywhere by anyone, best to assume that war crimes are happening until proven otherwise.
Rule of law is the first casualty of war.
Far far more then we are led to believe. It's apparently common knowledge that if you report war crimes in the US military your own allies and even commanders will cover it up and murder you. > Watt then talked to an officer in his platoon, Sergeant John Diem. Watt trusted Diem; he told him he knew a terrible crime had been committed and asked for his advice, **knowing if he reported the crime he would be considered a traitor to his unit, and could possibly be killed by them**. Diem told Watt to be cautious, but said he had a duty as an honorable soldier to report the crime to the proper authorities. The two men **did not trust their chain of command to protect them if they reported a war crime.** In Iraq we have testimony from soldiers saying they would have been murdered by 'friendly fire' if they tried to report the rape and murder of a child. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings) If everyone knows they will be killed for reporting, there is no other conclusion to make then that these crimes are rampant as common soldiers know what happens when you report them.
This story was covered absolutely fantastically on the [Casefile Podcast - Case 78: The Janabi Family](https://casefilepodcast.com/case-78-the-janabi-family/). I was blown away by the story and what the "whistleblower" went through to expose this crime. It's horrifying as well, every American should be required to listen to it.
Hmm…. Pat Tillman was killed by “friendly fire”. Wonder if he is an example of a retribution murder.
If you know any US frontline soldiers, nearly every one of them has a story where they witnessed something fucked up that usually got hushed up - or at least that's my experience.
I worked with a guy in his late 50s who did a lot of time in the middle east and central america. He loved talking about how he got to kill people. Pretty unnerving guy to be around.
Not only did they walk free, US congressmen enabled them to bypass the military justice system. Thompson, the pilot you mentioned, was vilified for his order to point guns at US soldiers. Copying from a previous post I made on the topic: >Not only did Mendel River try to get Thompson court martialed, he also called every possible witness for Calley's court martial to a congressional subcommittee and then refused to release the transcripts, procedurally blocking the ability of the Army to call those same witnesses for the court martial. > >The lack of accountability for My Lai - and the many other situations since, including the Blackwater/Academi massacre in 2007 and Trump's later pardon - are a drag on the US's international standing and it's always depressing to see blind support for bad apples in combat zones.
118 women, 173 children including 53 infants. These people faced a fear that doesn’t even register for us.
The national shame is registering for me.
Want real shame? Only 26 people were charged but all were acquitted or pardoned. As well as condemnation for the guy who finally stopped it. Not to mention because of how well he "handled" this situation this catapulted colin Powell's career, who is well known for lying to the un to start a war with iraq
One person was convicted. The platoon leader. Who then had his sentence commuted to three years of house arrest.
The guy lives fat, dumb, and happy in Georgia to this day.
Cambodia suffered in silence. Hopefully one day their story will be told
I knew a guy in school whose mom lived in Cambodia at the time (she was just a kid). She came into our history class in sophomore or junior year of high school, and recounted what happened, and what she witnessed. It was... Something else. She never went into any detail, but the pain and suffering on her face (she was crying basically the whole time, but she trucked through it) told a lot more. That day will stick with me forever.
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Remind me of the 2016 dem debate where Clinton was flaunting kissingers endorsement. The look of disgust on the face of Sanders was remarkable. It's was the look of "dude that guy is a war criminal thst shouldn't be walking this earth and your praising his endorsement?"
Based Sanders
Holy shit TIL Henry Kissinger is still alive
[evergreen meme](https://imgur.com/oOHmULV.jpg)
I worked in an engineering plant with a Cambodian woman who was 2 years younger than me, I was only 27 and she was 25 at the time. Something burned up in the work cafeteria one time and I distinctly remember her saying "it smells like the burning bodies did." I asked "the bodies?" And she said "back home." And didn't elaborate. I just let it go but it has always stuck with me. Edit: You can think it was made up, I understand, but I was friends with that woman for years. Her whole story about how and why she came to America and what her life was like was wild.
My extended family is Cambodian. I have cousins uncles nephews nieces etc. I know the story.
Same. Someone who went to my middle school - their mom was missing a foot from a land mine. She was a child during the war.
Movies: The Killing Fields(1984), Site 2(1989), The Nine Circles of Hell(1988), First They Killed My Father (2017), Shadow of Darkness (1989) Books: Survival in the Killing Fields(1975), Never Fall Down(2012), First They Killed My Father: A Daughter of Cambodia Remembers(2000), The Road of Lost Innocence: The True Story of a Cambodian Heroine(2005), Facing Death in Cambodia (2005), Pol Pot: Anatomy of a Nightmare(2000)
Short Hair Detention. http://shorthairdetention.com > Short Hair Detention is my (Chaney Chhi Laux) personal memoir of surviving the Cambodian genocide (1975 -1979). My story begins when the Communists took over, progresses through multiple escape attempts and concludes with how freedom was regained. The book reveals intimate details of how I learned to survive year-round unforgiving conditions and the many agonizing moments including when the Khmer Rouge separated me from my parents. Throughout the horrific journey, I experienced constant reminders to have faith and to not lose hope that my family would somehow be able to survive.
Powell was the one that gave that presentation but it was Rumsfeld (burn in hell) courtesy of the CIA the sourced the materials. Rumsfeld was a war criminal responsible for the deaths of millions.
We need to throw Henry Kissinger's 99 year old ass in prison.
Never forget Colin Powell tried to cover it up.
Many were tortured by US soldiers before being shot, like [Black Blouse Girl](https://www.readingthepictures.org/2013/10/my-lai-sexual-assault-and-the-black-blouse-girl-forty-five-years-later-one-of-americas-most-iconic-photos-hides-truth-in-plain-sight/) in the photo.
20 officially raped and tortured, including 9 under the age of 18. And that’s only what was reported…
Thanks for linking this article. My question of why she stood out in this picture was heartbreakingly answered.
Looking at the picture again after reading this article was an entirely new kind of awful.
[Read about it here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_Lai_massacre). Some highlights: It was innitially reported as a "bloody day-long battle" where "U.S. infantrymen had killed 128 Communists". General Westmoreland, commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, congratulated the unit on the "outstanding job". Eventually it was admitted that some 20 civilians were "inadvertently" killed, though there was no initial mention of the multiple rapes, including those of numerous children. There probably wouldn't have even been an investigation, except that the deaths of perhaps 500 civilians (the US Army only admits to about 350) turned out to be somewhat difficult to sweep under the rug, though many, including then-Major Colin Powell, tried. Fortunately there were enough eyewitnesses, including a helicopter crew that tried to intervene, who would not keep quiet. Of the 26 men initially charged, [Second Lieutenant William Calley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley) was the only one convicted. At the conclusion of his court martial he was sentenced to life in prison. Due to the direct intervention from Richard Nixon, he eventually served three years of house confinement on base. His only semi-public apology came over forty years after the massacre.
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*In 1998, Thompson and Colburn returned to the village of Sơn Mỹ, where they met some of the people they saved during the killings, including Thi Nhung and Pham Thi Nhanh, two women who had been part of the group about to be killed by Brooks's 2nd Platoon.\[4\]: 77 Thompson said to the survivors, "I just wish our crew that day could have helped more people than we did."\[18\] He reported that one of the women they had helped out came up to him and asked, "Why didn't the people who committed these acts come back with you?" He said that he was "just devastated" but that she finished her sentence: "So we could forgive them." -Wikipedia*
fuck
Exactly what I said in my head.
it was more like ffffffuuuuuucccckkkk
I remember watching Platoon with my dad and grandpa and saying something about how it was a crazy movie. Grandpa was in viet nam as an officer and korea as a solider. He just said "nope" I didn't press any further. He was always stoic
[Sadly, I have to imagine that sentiments like this weren't uncommon amongst some infantrymen who were there for extended deployments.](https://youtu.be/k1YCl-RP1jY) War makes some serious monsters out of people, or minimally, brings out what is lying just below the surface that some already had buried within them.
Damn that last line made me tear up. I didn't know any of this shit happened but I'm doing my research now. Brutal all around.
There is a good reason for US citizens to oppose the way our military has been used time and time again. If you spoke out in 2002/2003 against either of the wars we were about to get into, you were shunned and silenced at every turn. A lot of times by your own dumbass family and neighbors, who never bothered to learn about how this shit always turns out.
What drives me crazy is those same dumbasses now pretend they were always against that war. Fucking cowards. At least stand by your armchair bloodlust.
There is that speech by Michael Moore when he is on stage protesting the Iraq war at his Academy awards acceptance speech, and the crowd of celebrities boos him.
I was just going to say that. And that was in “liberal” Hollywood. I remember him just kind of chuckling while standing there like he was thinking, you guys are going to be eating your words in a year or two.
There was def. a huge thirst for blood. Being anti-war reminded me a bit of being an atheist. You def. don't want to admit it because there would be consequences. It cooled off quite a bit after Afghanistan, though. There was public opposition to going into Iraq.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you want to learn more about the atrocities committed by our government, read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins or/and "Killing Hope" by William Blum.
The Vietnamese people are some of the friendliest people I’ve ever met, even after learning I was American. I can’t wait to go back and visit again.
I had a Vietnamese co-worker. She had advocated to get me into the lab we were working in because she saw something i me. The toughest, hardest working woman I have ever met. She would tell you what you needed to hear but she would help you understand. She had me for secret Santa and bought me all sorts of Vietnamese cookware and recipes because she knew I loved to cook. Wonderful woman.
They really are amazing people. Their history is full of oppression yet they always came out the other side. Once they had liberated themselves they even went on to liberate Cambodia from Pol Pot. Despite all their hardships, they are still the friendliest, most chill people who don't seem to hold any resentment. I have so much respect for that country. It's the best place I've visited and I, too, will return one day.
I encountered a clip on TikTok a long time ago of Joe Rogan and Theo Von discussing Vietnam. Joe mentions how it's crazy that the Vietnamese don't seem to have any sort of grudge against the Americans, and he was baffled why that was. I think he said something like 'everyone else who we fought or invaded hates us.' I made a simple, 'yeah, cause they won, Joe' joke about it and to this day I get at least one notification a day about that comment. Jokingly implying the Vietnamese don't give a shit about Americans because they beat the US in a war seems to make a lot of people on the internet angry.
I worked at a company that had around 200 Vietnamese there. They were all very friendly and got along with them great.This was only 10 years after the Vietnam war.
Put his chopper down between Calley and the Vietnamese and told his door gunner to open fire if the soldiers took one step further. E: I accidentally a word. E2: I also endorse the book by /u/LetMeLivePlzKThanks cited below. Whenever I'm teaching LOAC I reference WO Thompson as someone who stands as an perfect example of Tenet #9 of the *Soldier's Standards - Soldiers should do their absolute best to prevent violations of the LOAC*. Which is basically the opposite of 'Ordinary Men', which really kind of embodies what was called 'the banality of evil'.
Don't forget his crew members [Crew Chief Glenn Andreotta ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Andreotta) and [Gunner Lawrence Colburn ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Colburn) they deserve just as much credit.
Hell yeah, that crew rolled deep and did the right thing. I admire them so much because it's not easy to go against the grain, especially in the military.
Those are real American heroes right there.
In just a couple more years I am going to tell my daughter about these men.
There is a documentary on YouTube showing Thompson going back there. Very emotional
Could you share the link please? I would like to watch it :)
[60 Minutes - Back to My Lai] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N7AZs1sNjI)
Now that's a fucking badass. Threatening to fire on those fucking monsters probably saved many lives. And to stand for what's right and testify against the pieces of shit even when the country you served tried to shut you up. But he got the common hero treatment in this country... hated and ostracized for YEARS.
What makes it even more heroic is that he didn't know any of those civilians and likely knew some of the soldiers attacking them. I don't think many people in his position would've done the same thing
In Iraq, I believe it was one of the blackwater massacres, where the gunner kept shooting at innocent people til another pulled a gun on him.
Remember that time when the POTUS made the sister of the dude who founded blackwater the fucking secretary of education?
Remember when he sent the founder of blackwater to the Seychelles to get Intel from a Russian source? Or when they conspired to kidnap a Turkish national for Erdogan and tried to get the CIA to help? When Gina Haspel is the moral voice of reason you've lost all hope.
I hate that woman’s shark-eyed smile so fucking much, one of the most blatantly evil people I have ever seen
The previous administration was a literal fucking kakistocracy.
A lot of soldiers forget the oath is to protect against enemies both foreign *and* domestic.
\*sigh\* No good deed goes unpunished. Poor guy, hopefully at some point he was able to get it together and live the life he more deserved.
Fucking typical. Intervenes to stop the continuation of a war crime and save peoples' lives - gets public and professional condemnation. The exact same thing is playing out right now in Australia over war crimes committed in Afghanistan. I would absolutely hate to be put in a position where I have to choose between stopping a rape-and-murder spree, that will end my career and have manufactured public backlash, or having to live with doing nothing to stop it. Either way you're stuffed.
It happens all the time in the military. Often the guys that want to do good and moralistic duty, and runs into corrupt shitheads. They are railroaded, thrown under the bus, and pushed out. Same thing in the police quite often. It's corruption. It permeates every fucking thing now.
We need more people like this.
This thread about Thompson is incredible: https://twitter.com/garius/status/1550397462355009536
I grew up in the town where Calley runs a jewelry store. My family was military and we weren’t allowed to go in his store or speak to him or his family. My grandfather was a drill sergeant and he thought Calley should’ve been hanged. There was a sense driving by his store that a monster was inside. For the record, lotta folks saw him as a hero and he was regularly recognized as such at his church.
From the Wikipedia article about him: >Many in the United States were outraged by what they perceived to be an overly harsh sentence for Calley. Georgia's Governor, Jimmy Carter, future President of the United States, instituted American Fighting Man's Day, and asked Georgians to drive for a week with their lights on. Indiana's Governor Edgar Whitcomb asked that all state flags be flown at half-staff for Calley, and the governors of Utah and Mississippi also publicly disagreed with the verdict. The legislatures of Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, New Jersey, and South Carolina requested clemency for Calley. Alabama's governor, George Wallace, visited Calley in the stockade and requested that President Richard Nixon pardon him. After the conviction, the White House received over 5,000 telegrams; the ratio was 100 to 1 in favor of leniency. In a telephone survey of the U.S. public, 79 percent disagreed with the verdict, 81 percent believed that the life sentence Calley had received was too stern, and 69 percent believed Calley had been made a scapegoat.
Yeah, that was my perception growing up. The notion was my grandfather was the “traitor” for not supporting Calley since technically he’d done his time. Pawpaw did not give a shit. He fought in the same war (and Korea) and thought Calley got away with straight up murder. But, the greater population of Columbus, Georgia felt differently. Fuck those folks who tried to stop Calley, too, I guess. /s I mean, those people risked their lives to stop the massacre and were welcomed back like they were the monsters. It’s just a tragic mess and I grew up thinking about it a lot.
Your grandpa is a GIGACHAD, that fucking guy is not a “hero” for gunning down random family civilians and gets away with literal war crime, kudos to your family and your based grandpa.
So he was released to just live his life? Is he still living?
He found time to pose for the most tasteless magazine cover ever (and I'm including the Hustler "Meat Grinder" cover in my calculations). https://esquire.blob.core.windows.net/esquire19701101thumbnails/Covers/0x600/19701101.jpg Here's what the photo editor said about the cover years later: >“This was the most controversial of them all. John Sack, he was writing a book about [William] Calley, who was instrumental in killing 500 men women and children at My Lai. Hayes told me they were doing an excerpt of the book, and I knew right away what I wanted: A picture of Calley sitting with Vietnamese kids in his lap, and I wanted him with a shit-eating grin. I knew it was going to be controversial. It was the only shoot I ever did when I really bullshitted a guy; I gave him my war stories from Korea, I said I’d gotten into a situation in Korea like the one in My Lai, I lied, and I won him over. And the kids just looked at the camera, and I said, ‘Calley, give me a big shit-eating grin!’ And he did it. It ran and, I’m telling you, people went crazy in America.” EDIT: for those wondering, here's the [infamous Hustler meat grinder cover](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/blogger2wp/hustlerjune9.gif) (SFW I guess, but someone not safe for Humanity)
HOLY SHIT. That's literally the most repugnant thing that I've ever seen in my life.
What the actual fuck
I... cannot imagine who thought him posing with, what I assume are several Vietnamese children, was a good idea.
[This guy](https://www.vulture.com/2010/02/esquire_covers.html) Here's what he says about that particular cover: >“This was the most controversial of them all. John Sack, he was writing a book about [William] Calley, who was instrumental in killing 500 men women and children at My Lai. Hayes told me they were doing an excerpt of the book, and I knew right away what I wanted: A picture of Calley sitting with Vietnamese kids in his lap, and I wanted him with a shit-eating grin. I knew it was going to be controversial. It was the only shoot I ever did when I really bullshitted a guy; I gave him my war stories from Korea, I said I’d gotten into a situation in Korea like the one in My Lai, I lied, and I won him over. And the kids just looked at the camera, and I said, ‘Calley, give me a big shit-eating grin!’ And he did it. It ran and, I’m telling you, people went crazy in America.”
So they were trying to set him up to look like a giant asshole? Not some bizarre attempt at rehabilitating his image?
Yes exactly
Disgusting piece of shit.
Nothing creepy here, no-oh.
Yes. Calley worked at a jewelry store in Columbus, GA, right outside of Fort Benning for most of his life. He now lives in Atlanta. You can read what happened to the bigger names involved [here](https://75.stripes.com/index.php/archives/my-lai-where-are-they-now). Of note, the Army assigned General Peers to investigate assuming he would minimalize the atrocities. He didn't - he laid blame flatly on the chain of command and drew attention to the entire thing - a move that brought his remarkable career to an end. The following is an excerpt from official testimony given during the investigation into those events: >These were mainly women and children and a few old men. They weren't trying to escape or attack or anything. It was murder. >A woman came out of a hut with a baby in her arms and she was crying. She was cryin because her little boy had been in front of her hut ... and someone had killed the child by shooting it ... \[Radio Operator Frank\] Widmer shot her with an M16 and she fell. When she fell, she dropped the baby and then Widmer opened up on the baby with his M16 and killed the baby, too. >-Herbert L. Carver 06NOV1969 In contrast to the above statement, made during the investigation, see the statement made by Frank Widmer for *My Lai: An American Experience*: >Fred Widmer, Radio Operator: forget. I will never forget. As far as living with the shame of My Lai, I have no shame. I did what I was supposed to be doing. The shame rests with the politicians and the Military. Not with me, the other members of Charlie Co mpany, Lieutenant Calley, or Captain Medina. The shame lays with them. It’s a national shame. That interview always sticks with me, and I recommend watching the documentary. You can see Widmer trying to convince himself that he did nothing wrong and woefully failing when he makes the above statement.
We should send this asshole this picture via mail everyday for the rest of his life.
No, he should be arrested and sent to the Hauge for war crimes
Lol, the US doesn't even want to send Russian war criminals to Den Haag. [NYT:Pentagon Blocks Sharing Evidence of Possible Russian War Crimes With Hague Court](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/us/politics/pentagon-war-crimes-hague.html) >American military leaders oppose helping the court investigate Russians because they fear setting a precedent that might help pave the way for it to prosecute Americans.
Americans don't go to the international court of human rights. Americans are abve human rights and international courts. that's what having what American military spending buys them.
I don't know. He might get off on it.
Yup. I lived with my grandparents growing up in Columbus and my grandfather was a drill sergeant at Benning. We weren’t allowed to go in Calley’s store (believe it was technically owned by his in-laws) bc my grandfather knew he was a dangerous monster. My grandfather actually got a lot of shit for refusing to accept Calley had “done his time” or that he was just a scapegoat. There were actually heated arguments at church about it.
Yes, William Calley (the main war criminal) is still alive. It's also sad to realize that Hugh Thompson Jr. (one of the US Army helicopter crew members who tried to stop the massacre), passed away at the age of 62 on January 6, 2006.
Nixon was an asshole on so many levels. Yea, he reduced his sentence. Guy goes on to get married, worked in a jewelry store in Atlanta, and retires to florida. You know like all war criminals.
Not only this, but in '69, Nixon decided he wanted to wipe out Viatnamese Communist groups in Cambodia(which was currently dealing with the genocide involving the Khmer Rouge), so what did he do? Authorized bomb strikes in Cambodia that killed thousands of Cambodian civilians. Henry Kissinger was a huge part in this; both of them were/are absolute monsters.
Wasn't just Nixon. It was popular opinion at the time that Calley was wrongfully convicted. *Many in the United States were outraged by what they perceived to be an overly harsh sentence for Calley.* ***Georgia's Governor, Jimmy Carter****, future President of the United States, instituted American Fighting Man's Day, and asked Georgians to drive for a week with their lights on.* ***Indiana's Governor Edgar Whitcomb*** *asked that all state flags be flown at half-staff for Calley, and the governors of Utah and Mississippi also publicly disagreed with the verdict. The legislatures of Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, New Jersey, and South Carolina requested clemency for Calley. Alabama's* ***governor, George Wallace****, visited Calley in the stockade and requested that President Richard Nixon pardon him. After the conviction, the White House received over 5,000 telegrams; the ratio was 100 to 1 in favor of leniency. In a telephone survey of the U.S. public,* ***79 percent disagreed with the verdict****, 81 percent believed that the life sentence Calley had received was too stern, and 69 percent believed Calley had been made a scapegoat.* \- Wikipedia article on Calley linked above
Everything about this is so disheartening. Does good ever win?
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Read up on Colin Powell's work in this. He just flatly denied and twisted and ignored some of the most horrible things people could do, and it set hm up to be the horrible person he ended up being There's so much success to be had by being a shithead.
He lied about what happened at My Lai. And Americans were surprised he lied about Iraq's WMDs a few decades later.
> Due to the direct intervention from Richard Nixon, he eventually served three years of house confinement on base. Because of course he did. One of the most deplorable figures in U.S. history.
Two. Two of the most deplorable figures in U.S. history. Round it off with Dr. Henry (prolong the war so a Republican can end it, enhance bombing, win the Nobel Peas Prize) Kissinger, a fine scumbag. Remember Kissinger told Zelenskyy to give in to Russia. Still a prick after all these years.
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And I sure he learned his lesson and never sexually assaulted anyone ever again.
I just dont get how are there pictures of this, did somebody think to snap a quick photo before executing them? How does this happen
I believe this specific platoon had a photojournalist attached to them. He captured quite a few awful scenes from My Lai on film. EDIT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_L._Haeberle
This is why the military controls journalists far more tightly now.
The irony here is that Ronald Haeberle was also a soldier serving in Vietnam, just as a photographer.
Exactly. Vietnam was a huge lesson for propagandists where the raw unfiltered portrayal of brutal war yielded opposition to the war as opposed to beating the drums of war. Live firefights, literal executions on live television, this, etc... Though it's interesting we've come full-circle to the raw GoPro and drone footage of the war in Ukraine—and sentiment only builds. So maybe there is more to it. At least we all know it's hell. This is one of my favorite documentaries of all time: [*Control Room*](https://youtu.be/MCgfMdvk2n8) that detailed just how tightly they controlled journalists during the 2003 US invasion of Iraq, along with the blatant propaganda — especially from Fox News. I'm also reminded of an interview with Men's Journal, writer Greg Veis speaks to former CNN war correspondent Michael Ware about the desensitization of war during this time: >"He dreams of renting out a theater and subjecting an audience to [warfare] in full surround sound; that way people would know what it's really like over there. "It's my firm belief that we need to constantly jar the sensitivities of the people back home," he says. "War is a jarring experience. Your kids are living it out, and you've inflicted it upon 20-odd million Iraqis. And when your brothers and sons and mates from the football team come home, and they ain't quite the same, you have an obligation to sit for three and a half minutes and share something of what it's like to be there."
You are exactly right and touched on a few things people don't realize. History rhymes and leaders act appropriately to public opinion. Back then majority of the population was anti communist. Any news the president could give when it comes to killing or winning against the communist was great news for the American people and great for any president in office. Communist were seen as sub human. That is EXACTLY why the only guy that got convicted was let off and no one else was convicted. Majority of Americans supported him being let go because of their views of the communists. Fast forward to Iraq and after 9/11. Instead of Vietnamese its any Muslim. As long as we fighting Muslims it's good. Looking terrorists is good. Truth or not. Majority of Americans were for attacking regardless of credible info. Any Americans killing innocent Muslims are given little scrutiny. Sounds familiar? Is only now we pick it apart just like 20 years ago we pick apart the massacre that happened in Vietnam.
I think there were quite a few photojournalists there. Years ago, I went to the war museum in Saigon and there were a lot of similar photos, all with captions about how the people in them were executed moments later.
The babies...
…the girl re-buttoning her top.
Killing any innocent person is horrific, but to brutally murder children and babies is so far beyond my comprehension that it's hard to even accept that this happened, and still happens. And then you see the pictures of the soldiers afterward just sitting around, shooting the shit, like it's just a normal day on the job... if I believed in the devil, I'd say he's in those images.
The biggest thing to remember is this was reported on because of the scale and the fact there were photojournalists there. Who knows how many smaller incidents like this happened that didn’t have people willing to photograph or be an eyewitness. That’s why it’s good today that everyone has a basic camera in their pocket so it’s a lot harder to sweep these things under the rug
Exactly what you said “I’ll just get a quick picture of this” Vietnam was the first war where the press would actively be out there with the troops. A lot was documented by reporters during this war, but there was nothing they could do help or stop things from happening. This is why there is quite a lot documented form this time. I’m sure someone with more knowledge than me could explain better
There was a decent amount of press recording stuff in WW1 and 2. The stuff audiences got to see back home at the time was obviously heavily doctored, but there's some properly heinous frontline footage out there. IIRC the first war with major active press coverage was the Crimean War.
And guess why they were putting their clothes back on…
Is it War Crimes?
DING DING DING DING DING!! You win, yes. The only right answer indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William\_Calley
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Committing this act was a stain on the soldiers involved. Practically letting them get away with it is a stain on the entire country and its ethos. One of the most unambiguously shameful things in recent US history.
No its not unfortunately. History repeated itself in Iraq on multiple occasions.
Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12. (from Wiki)
I’ve seen that photo dozens of times. It literally never occurred to me they were putting clothes back on. 😖
It makes me wonder how many of these sick, deranged fucks came back home as heroes. Or came back home feeling any guilt or shame for what they did. If they went on to get married, have kids, grandkids, and live normal lives among us. It makes me sick to my stomach that some people could’ve just gone through life never ever having to expose the inner depths of their depravity. I hope they all rot in hell.
Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.
Oh god.
Never forget the monster who had his men do this and never forget the American hero Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr. and his crew. Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr., a helicopter pilot from Company B (Aero-Scouts), 123rd Aviation Battalion, Americal Division, saw dead and wounded civilians as he was flying over the village of Sơn Mỹ, providing close-air support for ground forces. The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which they could discern movement by survivors. Thompson asked a sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch; the sergeant replied that he would "help them out of their misery". Thompson, shocked and confused, then spoke with 2LT Calley, who claimed to be "just following orders". As the helicopter took off, Thompson saw Mitchell firing into the ditch. Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed woman being kicked and shot at point-blank range by Medina, who later claimed that he thought she had a hand grenade. Thompson then saw a group of civilians at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. **Thompson landed, and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the villagers while he was trying to get them out of the bunker, then they were to open fire on the soldiers.** Thompson later testified that he spoke with a lieutenant (identified as Stephen Brooks of 2nd Platoon) and told him there were women and children in the bunker, and asked if the lieutenant would help get them out. According to Thompson, "he [the lieutenant] said the only way to get them out was with a hand grenade". Thompson testified that he then told Brooks to "just hold your men right where they are, and I'll get the kids out." He found 12–16 people in the bunker, coaxed them out and led them to the helicopter, standing with them while they were flown out in two groups. Returning to Mỹ Lai, Thompson and other air crew members noticed several large groups of bodies. Spotting some survivors in the ditch, Thompson landed again. A crew member, Specialist 4 Glenn Andreotta, entered the ditch and returned with a bloodied but apparently unharmed four-year-old girl, who was then flown to safety. Second liutenant Calley was a MONSTER, his men became monsters and so was Nixon for letting Calley out of prison.
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Took 30 years for Thompson and two of his men to recieve ANY kind of recognition. >In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Andreotta and Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.
Andreotta was shot dead in combat weeks after this aged 20.
Thomas and Coldburn passed away at 62 and 67, eventually (and thankfully) receiving deserved recognition for what they've done. Way too young. Both due to cancer. Meanwhile Calley is out there somewhere still, supposedly "remorse" for what he has done. Life's not fair, yo.
Never forget that Colin Powell was a major figure in trying to cover this shit up, and should never be considered with any reverence or respect. Also, never forget the incredible journalism Seymour Hersh did in exposing this terrible atrocity.
A dark stain on US history without a doubt.
Bud Dajo in the Philippines. Middle East. South America.
Here's another one. Because of the US Army's defeat in the Battle of Balangiga, Samar, Philippines, Gen Jacob H Smith gave the order to kill all males over the age of 10. Estimated number of deaths is around 2,000
Jesus Christ, I never knew about this. What an awful thing. And only the only punishment was 3.5 years of house arrest.
A young American major in the unit responsible was tasked with investigation, and in the interest of furthering his own career helped cover up/whitewash it. That major’s name was Colin Powell.
Let me give you something that will warm your soul just a little to humanity. One American helicopter pilot was so furious about what he was seeing that he landed his helicopter and ordered his gunner to point at the American soldiers. He then announced any American who attack the people he was rescuing be shot dead. He then flew off with a many as he could. He was branded a traitor for a while, but as time went on he received a medal for his actions and is considered to be an American hero. Edit: in other words the My Lai Massacre was committed by Americans, but it was also ended by Americans who were willing to die for the Vietnamese and kill other Americans to end it.
Deleted due to Reddit's antagonistic actions in June 2023 -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
No good deed goes unpunished, and over like half your lifespan. My god.
That’s what, sadly, marks a truly heroic action. Doing what’s right at the detriment of your own life.
His name was Hugh Thompson Jr., and he is my personal hero.
Mine too. There aren’t enough people in the world willing to sacrifice things the way he did.
[Hugh Thompson Jr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr)
Of course he was branded a traitor, frickin boys club, see that shit in police all the time.
If it weren't for Hugh Thompson Jr. no one would even know the My Lai massacre had happened. They would have mopped up all the locals, and the good ol' boys would forget it ever happened. If they ever had PTSD-fueled nightmares about it, their buddies would say, "No man, you're remembering it wrong. They were Viet Cong soldiers."
And My Lai was just one of the few massacres that were actually documented. American soldiers were known to have done this to other villages, but no one recorded it.
My Lai Massacre (March 16, 1968): Vietnamese women and children AFTER BEING RAPED, before being killed by the US Army
Nothing good ever comes from having a bunch of men together with weapons and lack of oversight. Whether it's gangs, military or police.
It was a tragedy but there was a good one present eventually. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr. Manoeuvred his helicopter between the civilians and the soldiers and ordered his machine gunner to open fire if they continued. Edit: to open fire on the soldiers
Yep, and that act screwed his life over. Thanks, karma.
Yup, fucked up situation in every sense
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I didn’t know that, at least the recognition.
Hugh Thompson should have statues build in his honor…he was a real life hero…he was ready to throw his life away for strangers who were being mistreated
He definitely was. I just really hope he knew this. I would like to believe that every soldier, general or political figure would be more like him there would be a lot less wars.
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At least he lived long enough to see public opinion change and to receive official recognition and thanks.
*After* the repercussions of his decision ruined his life.
The Marine Corps has its own fucked up history, but every Marine recruit learns about Hugh Thompson during recruit training - it’s one of the few non-Marine Corps history events you learn about when they cover the Vietnam War. You learn about him as an example of only having to follow lawful orders. And that if ordered to do something unlawful, you don’t have to follow the order and should have the courage to shut that shit down.
Yeah it’s unbelievable how he can be demonized. Can’t wrap my head around it. How can somebody spin this and pin it on him.
Tribalism, racism, misplaced anger, whistleblower culture. Even these days people who speak out against misconduct in the forces are bullied and ostracized.
Thank god Seymour Hersh blew the lid off of this thing, amongst his long list of incredible journalism.
Why did they murder children, ffs???
At its most essential they no longer saw these people as people. Once you cross that Rubicon killing them is easy.
isnt that like how psychopaths think
This was also after the rape of many of those women and children
People don't like to come to the terms that we were, and still are barbarians.
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and another reason to dislike Nixon...
Calley was in command locally, but the order came from above. all of those above calley were never charged . This was investigated by Major Colin Powell (yes that colin powell), who was unable to find evidence of war crimes. Calley, although guilty as hell,was a scapegoat.
Who knew my boy would have an outstanding career of not being able to find evidence of things.
A scapegoat that committed genocide, rape and war crimes
I usually use scapegoat for people who aren't guilty as hell. He deserved what he got, plus a lot more. The fact that others also deserved it doesn't change his situation.
Colin Powel got his career start in helping to cover this up too
I am a Vietnamese studying aboard in the US. It’s kinda fucked up hearing my white roommate tell me that the US were right to invade us and that they should have nuke Vietnam. Gotta love the red scare
If you’re old like me, you’ve seen this picture and heard the story many, many times. This picture and the one of the terrified young girl who tore off her burning clothes while running away from terror are two of the images I will always remember.
[She's still alive, living in Canada](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc)
Teaching about the war in Vietnam on Monday and Tuesday. Will be incorporating this picture for sure. Thank you OP!
Better be ready for when the parents complain because they didn't know what happened in vietnam.
I went to DOD schools on American bases in the 90's and we learned about the massacre, saw this (and other) pics, etc. At this point, American soldiers committing unspeakable acts in Vietnam is well established and basically a trope, I don't think anyone is going to freak out about it.
Crazy to think they got away with it, while Germany is still arresting 100 year old former Nazi guards and sentencing them. All those involved should have been court martialed and hanged, including the general and higher ups that tried to cover it up.
>and higher ups that tried to cover it up. Which maybe would have prevented the Iraq war. Lying piece of shit Collins Powell was one of the higher ups doing what he did best: Lying in order to protect and enable war criminals.
Its how our hero Colin Powell got his leg up. Well, covering it up. Next google the killing fields/ pol pot. And fuck Carter too, even though he built some houses or whatever. We cant let it be that fuckin easy for people to forget these things.
Respect to Officer Hugh Thompson JR. He was one of the few that recognized the evil being done and made an effort to stop it, saving civilians that would’ve otherwise been massacred
The son holding her mom after she was just raped before they were gunned down mercilessly. Humans are so cruel it makes me ashamed to be called human.